(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:10:02 PM)
New Knicks guard Mario Hezonja celebrated Croatia’s World Cup victory over England on Wednesday.
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:30:03 AM)
Knicks draft pick Kevin Knox has been unleashing ferocious dunks and burying threes while dominating in the Summer League.
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:00:06 AM)
There was no secret that former Knicks star F Carmelo Anthony and former head coach Mike D’Antoni didn’t see eye to eye in New York.
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 3:00:00 AM)
President Trump can’t rely on luck seeing him through his Friday the 13th meeting with the Queen.
As Trump gears up for his U.K. trip and the honor of meeting the Queen on June 13, high on his list of preparations should be learning the myriad protocols in place for all social interactions with…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 2:00:00 AM)
It has come to pass that Laura Ingalls Wilder is now bad, too.
There are generations of readers who can trace their first love for books straight back to Wilder and her nine entries in her “Little House” series, first published in the 1930s and early 40s. For many of us, these were our first moments…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 2:00:00 AM)
The Trump administration’s “zero tolerance” family separation policy is drawing much-needed attention to the abuses perpetrated by ICE, the federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency.
But the crisis didn’t start there. And the debate around what to do with ICE is not as complicated as some…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 1:10:00 AM)
BRUSSELS — President Trump threatened European allies that he could ‘go it alone’ in a shock at the NATO summit in Brussels, according to a report.
The commander-in-chief had blasted Germany and others for not spending more on their own defense, and a report from the Germany news agency DPA said…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 1:05:00 AM)
Only thorough, independent investigation will tell whether anyone could have stopped one Rikers Island detainee from putting his hands around the throat of another and killing him.
But the first fatal assault by one inmate on another in more than a decade serves as ghastly reminder that the jails…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 1:00:00 AM)
Here’s how stupid elections can get in New York: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who beat incumbent Democratic Rep. Joe Crowley, also won a primary in a neighboring district — on the Reform Party line. With a grand total of nine write-in votes, or 10 if spelling doesn’t count.
And that’s not even the…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 1:00:00 AM)
Back in May, when he was blaming Democrats for a policy his White House devised and implemented, President Trump called the practice of forcibly separating migrant children from their parents “horrible.”
Tuesday, as his administration failed abysmally to meet a court-ordered deadline to return,…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 1:00:00 AM)
ALBANY — A dispute between Gov. Cuomo and the state Assembly over criminal background checks has jeopardized up to $12 million in federal day care funds — potentially hitting poor, minority and immigrant children hardest, the Daily News has learned.
The disagreement centers on a program that provides…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 12:55:00 AM)
A pair of Brooklyn progressive state Senate Democratic candidates is set to announce on Thursday they will back each other’s bids.
The two 27-year-old first-time candidates are Julia Salazar and Ross Barkan.
Salazar, a self-described democratic socialist, is running a primary challenge against…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 12:00:00 AM)
A smarter way to clear NYC trash
Bronx: Re “Trash war heats up with new private sanitation bill in City Council” (June 27), we applaud Councilmen Robert Cornegy and Mark Gjonaj for standing up for New York’s small businesses. The two Council members have introduced a smart, innovative, responsible…
(Thursday, July 12, 2018 12:00:00 AM)
A 16-year-old boy was killed when a gunman shot him in the head in broad daylight as the teen walked with his girlfriend on a tree-lined Brooklyn block Wednesday, police said.
The victim was walking with his sweetheart on Macon St. near Stuyvesant Ave. in Bedford-Stuyvesant when he got into a war…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:20:00 PM)
SUNRISE, Fla. — In the crucial first minutes after a gunman began shooting students and staff at a Florida high school, law enforcement’s response was hampered by quirks in the local 911 system that caused many calls from inside the school to be transferred, the chairman of a commission investigating…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:00:00 PM)
A savvy squad of Queens detectives used devices — both old and new — to track down and save a woman trying to hang herself in a Midtown hotel, cops said Wednesday.
The hi-tech, life-or-death rescue effort began when a panicked woman came running into the 107th Precinct in Flushing on a video call…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:45:00 PM)
A hate-spewing passenger unleashed an anti-Muslim tirade on a city bus, verbally attacking another woman with profane threats for wearing a headscarf.
“ICE is here for you,” the instigator, who identifies herself as Ashley, can be heard screaming on the Brooklyn-bound bus from Staten Island.
The…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:30:00 PM)
Stormy Daniels, the adult film star suing the President after an alleged affair, has been arrested in Ohio, according to her lawyer.
Michael Avenatti said that his client, who was paid $130,000 not to discuss the alleged affair during the 2016 campaign, was “arrested in Columbus, Ohio, performing…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:10:00 PM)
A Tennessee pastor is being accused of raping a 17-year-old girl.
James “Ronnie” Messer, 46, was arrested after the girl’s family reported him to authorities claiming he took the 17-year-old to the Crossway Worship Center after their plans to go swimming fell through.
The girl’s sister alleged…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 10:05:00 PM)
HURON, Kan. — Authorities say a councilwoman for a tiny Kansas town kicked, hit and scratched deputies and that they had to use a stun gun to subdue her.
Atchison County Sheriff’s Office Sheriff Jack Laurie says 48-year-old Carol Fowler remains jailed Wednesday on $25,000 bond after the June 29…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:30:00 PM)
BALTIMORE – Tyler Wade’s parents are getting another MLB keepsake from their son: his first career home run ball.
Wade went deep for the first time as a major-leaguer in the sixth inning of the Yankees’ 9-0 victory over the Orioles on Wednesday night at Camden Yards.
“No idea. I blacked out,” Wade…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:15:00 PM)
In the end, the happiest man in baseball put a smile on all of Citi Field, which was fitting, of course, for Brandon Nimmo.
As Mickey Callaway put it, when asked whether he saw just how energized Nimmo was after hitting his pinch-hit walk-off home run in the 10th inning of Wednesday night’s 3-0…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:10:00 PM)
PARKERSBURG, W.Va. — The mother and stepfather of a 21-year-old man with a genetic disability that prevents him from speaking are accused of beating, binding and caging him.
News outlets report 40-year-old Christina Boyles and 39-year-old Herbert Boyles, of Parkersburg, West Virginia, were arrested…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:10:00 PM)
BALTIMORE – The Manny Machado race is in full swing – and apparently No. 13 thinks he’d look good in a Yankee uniform.
On Wednesday, Machado “liked” an Instagram post from his verified account – “machados13” – that showed him wearing the Yankees’ gray road uniform.
Yeah, that actually happened.
…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:05:00 PM)
Jacob deGrom shut the Phillies out over eight innings Wednesday night before Brandon Nimmo sent the Mets home victorious with a 10th-inning three-run walk-off homer.
DeGrom’s season ERA is now at 1.68 entering the All-Star break. It’s the best mark in the majors.
Callaway was asked after the game…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:45:00 PM)
After blowing the first of two deadlines to return migrant children to their families, the Trump administration anticipates reuniting a number of separated kids Thursday.
A San Diego judge ordered the feds to reunite all 102 children under age 5 by Tuesday — a deadline that was missed when only…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:35:00 PM)
TRENTON, N.J. — Whose mother wouldn’t say her child should be in the big leagues?
That is essentially how Tim Tebow reacted to his mom, Pam, telling TMZ at LAX that she would have her son called up to the big leagues and play for the Mets if it were up to her.
“That was my mom trying to be sweet…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:25:00 PM)
Lakers fans will have to wait until the NBA season starts up to see LeBron James in purple and gold.
Jonas Never, one of the artits responsible for a controversial mural depicting LeBron in a Lakers jersey, painted over his work on Wednesday after it was vandalized twice in four days.
Never and…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:01:55 PM)
LAS VEGAS — Frank Ntilikina was out with a groin strain Tuesday, so that gave the Knicks a chance to take a look at former Arizona shooting guard Allonzo Trier at the point. Remember these are the David Fizdale Knicks of positionless basketball. According to sources, failed PED tests were not the overriding reason the…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:15:10 AM)
LAS VEGAS — Burgeoning lottery pick Kevin Knox loves to play and has taken Thomas & Mack Center by storm. But he also loves to watch. When the Knicks are finished with their summer-league games, the 6-foot-9 forward can be seen afterward in the stands — and out of the scorching Las Vegas sun. Knox…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:21:13 AM)
LAS VEGAS — Knicks president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry brushed off Kyle O’Quinn’s dig at the Knicks but didn’t do a lot to dispel the big man’s premise. After signing last weekend with Indiana, O’Quinn said he rejected a similar Knicks offer because he “wanted to be a part of something bigger than…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 5:01:55 PM)
LAS VEGAS — Frank Ntilikina was out with a groin strain Tuesday, so that gave the Knicks a chance to take a look at former Arizona shooting guard Allonzo Trier at the point. Remember these are the David Fizdale Knicks of positionless basketball. According to sources, failed PED tests were not the overriding reason the…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 11:15:10 AM)
LAS VEGAS — Burgeoning lottery pick Kevin Knox loves to play and has taken Thomas & Mack Center by storm. But he also loves to watch. When the Knicks are finished with their summer-league games, the 6-foot-9 forward can be seen afterward in the stands — and out of the scorching Las Vegas sun. Knox…
(Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:21:13 AM)
LAS VEGAS — Knicks president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry brushed off Kyle O’Quinn’s dig at the Knicks but didn’t do a lot to dispel the big man’s premise. After signing last weekend with Indiana, O’Quinn said he rejected a similar Knicks offer because he “wanted to be a part of something bigger than…
180 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.07.12)”
Anyone else thinks D’Antoni wants Melo in Huston for the minimum so he can bench him as revenge for what happened in their Knicks days? Probably not, but I wouldn’t put it past him.
MDA wants Melo because his boss and, probably, CP3 want Melo. He’s just toeing the line.
I can’t imagine that Vegas is fooled by Melo at this point, but subtract Ariza and Mbah a Moute and add Starter Melo, set the line at 59.5 wins, and I will cry tears of joy as I fly to Vegas to place a very large bet on the under.
James Ennis will be largely a like-for-like replacement for Mbah a Moute, I think. Replacing Ariza with Melo would still be a clear downgrade.
I might put even money on that working out… both cp3 and harden would be the best pg’s that he’s ever played with…. the defense would def take a hit but their issue against gs was generating offense…
it’s a gamble but running it back would have been a gamble also…
I might want your money, then. And I’d get it.
Look at how much ground Mitchell covers.
https://twitter.com/KevinOConnorNBA/status/1017139459744194561
O’Connor also has many kind things to say about Kevin Knox, including this:
According to VORP, it’d be a swing of 8 wins (Melo played about 200 minutes more than Ariza, though). WP has an 11 win swing. BPM has a difference of 5.3 points per 100 possessions (which would drop Houston from a 8.5 MOV to 3.2, or 1st to 8th, roughly a 50-to-55-win team). Win Shares has them only apart by 1.5 wins. We’ll see, I guess.
Totally unrelated- any of you guys watching the big 3 tournament? Last night team coached by Gary Payton beat the team coached by Charles Oakley. It was in Oakland. 13,500 people in the arena! GP’s team had their top player (and the leagues top player) Rahard Lewis go down with what looked like and acl tear. Mahmoud Abdul Rauf came in for him. He’s like 5’11 and pushing 50 now. Still in great shape but beard and hair grey. They abused him initially and posted with guys like Metta World Peace and Stephen Jackson. Then Rauf went off. Hit like 5 3’s including the game winner. Silky smooth and very quick release. Man I wish he never got blacklisted by the nba at age 28. Also how nice would he be in today’s game? I think he averaged like 2 threes attemped/game back then.
Really crazy how much Melo’s ability to get to the rim has just disappeared over the last 2-3 seasons.
For most of his career, Melo had shot around 58-60% from 0-3 feet and had taken a pretty good percentage of his shots there (at his peak he was in the 40s in terms of % of shots taken there, but even in his first few years with the Knicks he was in the 20s). The last 2 years he has dropped to 12% of his shots at the rim, and is finishing in the 54-56% range. Just to put that in perspective, Jose Calderon took about the same % of his FGA in the restricted area during his NYK tenure. That is nuts. Ryan Anderson, whose only job on offense is to stand 35 feet from the basket, got to the restricted area more than Melo did last year.
I just don’t see why Morey would want Melo on the team other than to placate CP3. He’s literally no better than Ryan Anderson at this point, although I guess theoretically his ceiling is higher (Anderson’s stats last year are basically uniformly better than Melo’s last year other than pure scoring volume. Even their assist #s are pretty similar).
I was lucky to be living in Denver during Rauf’s run. My all time favorite non-Knick. “Ra-uf, there it is” chants. Good times. Did he still show the effects of Tourettes in that game?
For people wondering why anyone would want melo, it’s because most people are idiots. Just last year he was touted as being a huge get for new title contending, 60+ win OKC. A new big three. Gravity. Positive feedback loops. Spacing. I was even called dumb for asking why Westbrook/PG/old melo was supposed to win more games than Westbrook/Durant/Ibaka
He still seems to have some ticks. I noticed it when he was shooting free throws. Yeah he was one of my favorite non Knicks during that era. I remember him going off on the 72-10 bulls while he was in Denver. I think that’s one of the Bulls 10 losses.
I suspect part of Melo’s decline in getting to the rim was the byproduct of sticking him on the perimeter to act as a floor spacer for George and Westbrook. Getting Melo never made sense because there are loads of better 3 point shooters that make much less money than Melo and with Westbrook and Paul able to penetrate and create their own shot, they really didn’t shot creation from Melo. I suspect much of his fall off in free throws and getting to the rim has to do with his physical decline, but last year some may have been related to his role.
– If Melo goes to the Rockets, it’s because of ownership.
– Melo will make the Rockets worse, and guarantee they never overtake the Warriors.
– I would hate to be D’Antoni when he finds out. I would hate to be in the room. I would hate to be the barista who gives him the wrong frap that day.
CP3 wants Melo for the same reason Isiah Thomas is the worst front office member we’ve ever had: good players don’t exactly make good NBA executives. The examples are quite plentiful.
They might still be good despite Melo, but to think he could actually help them is a bit too much for me.
In Melo’s defense OKC’s offense was a bunch of “hey it’s your turn” between Russ, PG, and Melo. It’s really not too different from what Houston does, but I see a situation where playing with two of the game’s best passers can make Melo a more efficient scorer than what he was last year. Of course I could be wrong, but I think Billy Donovan is a shitty coach and his Thunder had no business losing to the Jazz. Why do you think, as a professional basketball coach, that going Iso Melo against the #1 defense in the NBA is a good idea? That didn’t cut it in 2013 when we played the Pacers. It’s going to work when Melo is 33? And then he never engineered situations where any of them got easy buckets.
Houston should be a better situation for Melo, and I expect that he plays better there than he did in OKC.
Rauf is the real Uncle Drew. Watched the highlights, actually really exciting.
Melo has been shot for years. The gap between perception and reality is narrowing really fast these days though.
After sixteen years in the league, what makes you think that anyoneis going to tell Melo how and when to shoot?
We need to stop with the “fit” and “system” nonsense about Melo’s value. Even if he’s in a marginally better system (and bet your ass that he will be shooting ISO in Houston) he’s a year older. It’s not like going from 28 to 29 where you lose a quarter step. He already fell off a cliff. It’s so dumb to think he’s going to climb back up at 34.
this actually happened?
The idea is to get guys that have value relative to their salaries. We overvalued Melo in NY and were only good when we we were good regardless of him. Examples include Linsanity, and the next year with Kidd, Chandler, etc. It’s been written billions of times. If he’d come as an FA, instead of for the whole starting 5, things might have been different. If he’d been different from the neck up…
Good players make some highlight plays and have some good games. Great players make the game easy for themselves and their teammates. LBJ mostly just puts it in from right at the basket, or makes a good pass. Melo in his prime had the physical skills but never seemed to understand the game well enough to create exceptional value for a team. He, thus never deserved a max.
HOU’s gamble on him now is low risk/ possible(?) reward. They’ll give him something like the minimum. Maybe enough more not to insult him, as we know he has thin skin. If he makes them worse they’ll bench him or cut him. No biggy.
I asked the question of advanced stats the other day and got busy so I never got the chance to follow up.
I really, really, really, think this site could use more content. A roundtable with some of the more interesting posters would be excellent, informative, and entertaining. (Sample questions: if Melo buys in to D’Antoni’s game, does he add value, or is his value static; is Enes Kanter a case study on the pitfalls of relying on stats)
My follow up question to the other day: I get it- the Chris Bosh Fanboy club (wtf?) was wrong in assuming a change in efficiency due to the change in scoring option from #1 to #3. I agree that scoring in volume shouldn’t change the efficiency by itself– but shouldn’t, say, changing a scheme, or taking better shots, or playing with a great facilitator increase efficiency and other models?
“this actually happened?”
You weren’t here last summer when ruru and er were telling us how unstoppable OKC was going to be?
As much as I hate the idea of giving Reggie Miller money, I think I’m gonna go see Uncle Drew to scout Kyrie.
CP3:
DeAndre Jordan post-CP3 leaving posted a similar TS%, and dipped a bit in WS/48 (221 to 186) without Paul. but showed a similar VORP. Blake Griffin’s stats across the board were worse after CP3 left, but this may also be due to injury and loss of athleticism. Mbah a Moute was with CP3 for two years and followed him to the Rockets, and his TS skyrocketed from 500 to 580, his WS/48 and VORP both increased as well, pretty significantly.
LeBron:
JR Smith pre-LeBron and with LeBron is the same idiot across metrics. Other guys like Korver, Richard Jefferson had similar numbers compared to their career as well.
I wouldn’t mind contributing to roundtables or articles for this wonderful blog. I second wetbandits suggestion.
In defense of OKC last year, when Roberson went down it hurt them quite a bit. He’s an elite defender. They had one of the best defenses in the NBA for most of the beginning of the season. His injury and their subsequent decline defensively has to be part of the analysis. So does the fact that Westbrook (despite his stat stuffing triple doubles) had a down year. Winning 48 games in the west despite their horrific start, significant injury, and Westbrook’s drop in efficiency wasn’t that bad. They just would have been better without Melo. 🙂
http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2017-10-17/#comment-597833
Without looking: Which of Melo, Russ and PG saw increases in their TS% year over year? (Trick question: the answer is none!)
http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-2017-10-17/#comment-597831
Spoiler: er was stunned, but also sure that it wasn’t Melo’s fault.
67 wins.
To the tune of lower TS% for each of them.
Okay.
The esteemed stratomatic:
Answer: 1 win.
If Kanter is a dud because of his defense, Roberson cannot get a pass for his offense. He’s a good player, but he is not the swing player on a 45- or 60-win team.
I can’t separate based on the exact date of his injury (two weeks before the ASB), but before the ASB, the Thunder had a MOV of +3.4. After the ASB, they had a MOV of +3.4.
So according to the facts, you just made that up. Honestly dude, this is why I don’t take you seriously. I’m sure I’m going to get 500 words about how it actually hurt them even though they made up on offense what the lost on defense.
Something something defense something hustle something something team identity.
@23 Year to year changes in shot profile for players that joined HOU and BOS this year:
PJ Tucker
TS%: .516 –> .537
% of shots that are 3s: 45 –> 68
% of shots that are corner 3s: 34 –> 45
% of shots from midrange: 25 –> 13
Luc Mbah a Moute
TS%: .581 –> .595
% 3s: 26 –> 46
% corner 3s: 24 –> 19
% midrange: 45 –> 26
Gerald Green
TS%: .524 –> .566
% 3s: 45 –> 72
% corners 3s: 12 –> 20
% midrange: 37 –> 15
Kyrie Irving
TS%: .580 –> .610
% 3s: 30 –> 36
% corner 3s: 6 –> 5
% midrange: 40 –> 37
Marcus Morris
TS%: .508 –> .541
% 3s: 33 –> 35
% corner 3s: 5 –> 6
% midrange: 52 –> 45
But what did JK47 say about OKC Melo in that thread?
I was too generous. He had a .503 TS% and a .071 WS48.
Also this:
And we sort of didn’t! That thread is gold. Ruruland makes a complete ass of himself as usual, and er… Well er finally just gave up and quit KB after so many years of being so persistently wrong about everything. I kind of liked er as a person, and if you’re reading this dude, I’m sorry if I used you as a punching bag. But you were really wrong about stuff a lot.
Here is our pal JK47 on that thread again, dispensing the definitive take on Carmelo Anthony and “gravity effect”
I hate to interrupt another compelling Melo discussion, but we are apparently interested in signing domestic abuser Willie Reed: https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/250676/Knicks-Interested-In-Willie-Reed
As I said, you have to consider the fact that the Roberson injury hurt their defense a lot and Westbrook had an unpredictable down year in shooting (not to mention a few terrible close losses). They WERE better than their 48 win total when they were healthy and finally got rolling.
Where I was definitely wrong was in underestimating how bad the fit was.
I should have realized from NY that Melo would never adjust. Even if he did, I should have suspected it would take 20 games or so for them to figure it out in the same way it took Wade, Bosh and James time to figure it out in their season 1. When guys are used to playing with the ball, learning to play off the ball is a different skill. That’s 2 high level cases where the team got off to a bad start until they figured it out.
@35: Ugh.
In less queasy news, another strong piece on Knox from Bleacher Report, which delves into the parts of his game he has to correct (going left, finishing stronger on non-dunks), while being very positive overall:
I can’t separate based on the exact date of his injury (two weeks before the ASB), but before the ASB, the Thunder had a MOV of +3.4. After the ASB, they had a MOV of +3.4.
I am also going to have to call out Jowles for using mainstream media fake new tactics on me. 🙂
This was the full quote: “I don’t think there’s any doubt OKC is a lot better now. The debate is only how many more wins it translates into because much of the rest of the west is a LOT better too”.
Above that quote was this one:
“The under/over for the west was very difficult for me to analyze. A lot of teams have either improved personnel, seem likely to get some development from young players, or both. There aren’t enough wins to go around. A couple of very good teams are going to have disappointing years”.
Can’t we just sign “Clive” Frazier instead?
And dumb ole 2for18 said the same thing re: melos gravity:
…..
“Don’t you guys think it’s pretty weird that these new advanced stats show Melo getting the kind of defensive treatment that other superstars get, when he’s such a bad player?”
Because they know he’s gonna jab step for a few seconds and then jack up a shot, so why leave him?
Roberson is well known to be one of the elite defenders in the league with a terrific on/off and other defensive metrics. They had either #1 or #2 rated defense early in the season. It was the offense that was struggling (Westbrook, George and Melo). They then went on a pretty good run mid season when the offense started clicking. After Roberson went down, the defense went down. So on a net basis they may have been similar, but only because the their 3 offensive players started figuring it out before Roberson went down and then the defense went down to offset it when he got hurt.
Since Mitchell keeps coming up…
Those are Donovan Mitchell’s best skills though. Also, one of the big revelations of Mitchell’s performance was his finishing. Before the season, one of his big criticisms was, while he was explosive off two feet, he lacked explosion off of one (similar to Knox)*. He then showed a lot of finishing craft, which he improved throughout the season and were on full display in the playoffs. Mitchell also averaged 4.4(!) steals per game in Summer League, a sign of his defense, athleticism, size, and feel for the game.
*This gets at one of my pet peeves: people saying “he’s so athletic!!!” without differentiating between the different components of athleticism.
Didn’t hit 500 words, but I knew I’d hear about how Roberson wasn’t the one pulling down OKC’s offense (even though he is an objectively bad offensive player, and played a ton of minutes).
Haha, okay. Call it fake news. I can call bullshit on that allegation, and I think everyone else sees it too. ; )
The Ringer must own Kevin Knox stock and be suffering from the endowment effect:
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/7/12/17562832/kevin-knox-knicks-summer-league
I remember the conversations about OKC. I just don’t remember anyone saying that that group was going to be better than Russ KD Ibaka’s Thunder team.
That Ringer article says that the Knicks are grooming Ntilikina more as a 2.
Sounds good to me.
That article was a little over exuberant. Calling Knox a potential second star already makes the mistake of assuming that we have a first star.
My wildly optimistic goal for the Knicks is that we get a real star (i.e. not Kyrie) via free agency in 2019 or 2020, that Kristaps develops into a second star, we find our 3rd star at the top of the 2019 draft, Knox is a high quality 4th guy, and Frank develops enough on offense to be the 5th guy.
That’s pretty much the dream, innit?
@48
Depends on how one defines a “star.” Like Hollywood and music stars, the term refers to popularity, not necessarily actual excellence in one’s field. KP is popular, and Knox becoming so, at least with the media.
However, the Knicks have no stars (excellence in one’s field) at this time. We have several young guys who could become excellent, but each could also become mediocrities or flops altogether. I’m rooting for them all.
Maxing Kyrie Irving and Kristaps Porzingis is a good way to tie up $80M in guys who are watching the game on the bench in suits.
@32, that seems like improvement is based on shot selection. Is that teammates or is that coaching? Stepping inside the line on a closeout for a long two is dramatically worse than side stepping for an open three, that’s not about teammates, that’s about getting smarter at basketball or coaches getting you to play smarter.
Seems like the biggest factor in player effectiveness is their personal development or regression, followed by how the coach uses them/has them play, with teammates a distant third.
Replace option with star, then. I’m not getting excited about our championship aspirations if our best two players are KP and Knox, is what I’m saying. But if they’re your 2nd and 4th best players because you got a stud in the 2019 draft and signed an actual max free agent (like Durant or AD in 2020), well that’s different.
Kevin O’Connor has some bad takes:
He’s attempted a single shot with his left hand, and he drives left all the time. He’s actually been the opposite of ambidextrous.
I feel like O’Connor used be better, but he’s gotten worse as he’s gotten more mainstream. I think he has more connections now, and uses that “insider” opinion to inform his takes instead of actual scouting. That or he’s writing articles to gain favor with people.
I think he’s made one or two of those types of passes?
“Kevin Knox will be a star” makes for better clickbait than “Kevin Knox might be a decent rotation player.”
People who read articles on Knox are Knicks fans. People who are Knicks fans want Knox to be a superstar. Articles will do better if they pretend knox will be a superstar. Therefore writers will portray Knox as a budding superstar.
Roberson IS a negative on offense, but when the replacement is Corey Brewer you don’t get much if anything back.
Of course if you want to argue that having Roberson on the court impacted the TS% of Westbrook, George and Melo early in the season (when they were all below prior seasons) go right ahead. If he did, I don’t think it was significant, but it would fly in the face of many of your other beliefs.
The reality is simple.
Westbrook, George, and Melo struggled on offense early in the season because they are all ball dominant players that were having a tough time finding ways to play off each other. When they changed Melo’s role, the offense started to improve. But then, the best defender on the team went down and the defense deteriorated just like a lot of data suggested it would. They only had a brief period where the offense was starting to click better and Roberson was still on the court. It was one of the best stretches of the season. That doesn’t mean they were a super team. It;’s means they were better than a 48 win team if you normalized the season.
The Ringer is fun to read sometimes but it’s not a sports site and shouldn’t be taken seriously wrt sports.
The Ringer = Fake News
Maybe we should trade Knox for 2 future 1st round draft picks. He’s either a star that’s going to hurt the tank or he’s a hyped player and we’ll get great value by trading him now. Next year is supposed to be a tank year. We can’t have any good players screwing up our efforts to get RJ Barrett. doh!
Resident Roberson stanfan or whatever the fuck they call it now chiming in. He sucks on offense, sure, but defensively he’s the only guy I’ve seen who reminds me of Pippen (Kawhi might be better than both but he’s viscerally different). Using MOV before and after his injury may not tell the whole story, because much of their improvement came from the bench. The Thunder were a breakeven team without Roberson last year and an elite + 10 per 100 team with him. Without him they were a below average defense with him they were the best in the NBA. That’s probably overstating it bc sample sizes but I think he really mattered.
Kornet starting today.
The Bleacher Report story I linked to above seemed much truer to Knox’s game so far, particularly with all the video clips illustrating each point.
Kornet screwing up today.
Jonathan Tjarks is good though.
Ojeleye on Knox, should be a good matchup.
Summer Celtics :: Summer Knicks
Boston Celtics :: NY Knicks
No big has ever sprinted around so frenetically trying to block shots as MRob. He plays like he has some kind of Brewster’s Millions mandate to deplete his oxygen levels.
@47
Hate to burst your bubble but if you check the source link on the “developing him as a 2” line it’s from that story back in February where Frank said he’d been studying DeRozan.
New hot take on Knox: draft bust
Let’s waive Hicks.
Why the fuck does espn have bill Walton on screen while commentating, ?
Ugh it’s not Walton it’s the worlds worst sports commentator mike breen
Trier has looked alot better the past couple of games.
I know it’s too soon, we’ve just met, but I kinda want MitchRob to have my babies.
I can’t imagine that Dotson is playing hurt but he’s been getting blown by repeatedly and he was a solid on the ball defender last year. And he can’t make a shot to save his life. Considering that the Knicks have possibly 5 guys who are probably going to be part of their rotation playing now-Knox, Kornet, Williams, Dotson and Robinson- and they’re about to be 1-4 in the summer league, I’d say the tank is going to be rolling strong this year.
Daily reminder that we gave Willy away for no reason and kept Kornet then gave him a guaranteed deal.
Every time Mitch swats a three kanter loses a minute of playing time
The summer league announcers are about as hyped as we are on endowment effects about Robinson it seems.
Well one thing is for sure. Mitchell Robinson can block shots.
Troy Williams is what Lance Stephenson would be if he stopped meditating so much
How many times a game do you think the coaching staff tells Troy Williams to slow the fuck down?
Not watching game. Who is mitchRob guarding?
Trier looked good first 2 games, he just bricked the crap out of everything despite being a good college shooter.
Trier has 17 pts 62.5% shooting. Knicks are losing cause knox has been the go to guy.
5 blocks, 3 steals, 8 rebounds for Robinson
Knox may or may not be a future superstar, but if Mitchell is out of the league in 3 years I will be totally shocked. I don’t know if I’ve seen a more sure-thing, rookie-year NBA player in the Knicks organization this century.
Yeah, Robinson has a LOT to learn, but the translatable skills and effort are so clearly there.
Mitchell is the GOAT
This has been Robinson’s best game yet. 7-9 shooting, 12 boards, 6 blocks, 3 steals, 0 turnovers, 1 foul.
@86-Jowles, Robinson appears ready, but, IMHO Ewing was more NBA-ready as a rookie.
We are SO set for the future – according to the ESPN guys we have the next Jayson Tatum and Anthony Davis in Knox and Robinson.
So if MitchRob is our rookie version of Tyson Chandler, does that make Kevin Knox our rookie version of…*gulp*…Carmelo Anthony?
He finishes as strong as I’ve ever seen, like Shawn kemp strong
Knox would be very lucky to be as good as Melo was.
Alley oops and putbacks are off the charts
Isn’t it funny how Knicks fan endowment effect syndrome spread to the sports media and infected Wasserman and O’Connor? Damn Knicks fans spreading their joy and optimism!
Knox 5/20, 5 TOs, 3 ASTs, 1 made shot in the paint in the half court, 0 attempted lefty layups—very ambidextrous though. More blocked layup attempts in the half court than makes. Some bad/unaware defensive plays. Positives: nice up and under layup in the half court, eurostep in transition, and alleyoop to MitchRob.
Loved Fran talking about the differences between Knox and Tatum—Tatum was an incredibly skilled, polished player, and Knox is close to the opposite of that.
It actually reads like they are grooming him to occupy a combo guard function within their interchangeable offense where he does a little bit of both depending on the matchup and lineup. Was surprised to see how much of his game looked like a DeMar DeRozen 2-guard while he was expected to distribute on offense.
Robinson’s problem is that he’s gotten manhandled by stronger guys in the post. He’s got to get a lot stronger if he’s going to play the 5 this year. Of course, when he gets to play with an actual point guard maybe he can make bigger guys pay with his mobility. Still, he looks like he’s in the same class as all the other bigs at the top of the lottery- an absolute steal.
With today’s performance, MitchRob is 2nd all time in Summer League BPG, behind only Greg Oden (4.0), who only played one game.
He finishes in traffic so well, he might up being the steal of the draft.
He’s never going to be a banger in the post. He’s a hybrid 5
I was about to post something to the same effect. If he manages to get himself swole he is going to be a world wrecker.
Robinson has a ton to learn, he’s less ready than you think. Flying out full speed to close out on the perimeter and using your arms as projectiles in the paint will be a much bigger problem against an NBA team with a set offense and crafty players who know how to draw fouls. He will probably foul out five times before he takes his first charge. But none of that matters, because it can change. The guy is a beast.
Knox’s biggest problems, by far, is not his lack of effectiveness of his left hand drives but the turnovers. He had more turnovers than assists than in college and it will be a problem for him moving forward. He’s going to have to work on his handle big time.
In fairness, that’s not at all what he said. He said Tatum was incredibly polished for a rookie bc he had been working on his footwork with an incredible St Louis area development coach since he was 14. Then he expressed high enthusiasm for Knox and said he would get to that level, just not as quickly as Tatum did.
Yeah, Robinson has problems, but come on, he’s so much goddamn fun to watch!
I’m guessing they’ll have Robinson front the post against stronger guys for the time being- he’s going to be really tough to lob over given his length and how quickly he gets off the floor.
He was being nice about it—he’s not going to shit all over his own colleague. The second half of that statement were my words, but that was the general sentiment.
I am so damn excited about Robinson. We might have our own DeAndre Jordan in place for the future.
It took DeAndre a while to get to NBA level in terms of being a starter but he could always dunk, rebound a bit and block shots. I can see a similar path for Robinson, with the caveat that he’s somewhat behind in conditioning because of not going to college.
There’s no way he’s a bust unless it’s some major off court stuff.
Yeah, my level of hype for Robinson is unrealistically high right now. 🙂
Now just imagine if he can keep defenses honest by shooting long twos at 40%!
Agreed on all counts, especially fouling out. He’s going to average a JaVale-like 10 fouls per 48 his rookie year, and probably won’t play more than 20 MPG despite the Knicks desperately needing rim protection.
Crazy stat — Jayson Tatum had ZERO recorded blocking fouls as a rookie. How is that possible?
Mitchell Robinson. WTF??
Where does he go in a re-draft?
The thing that’s nice about Robinson is that he’s not just a athletic freak who flashes an occasional monster play and then looks lost most of the time. He competes, and he produces.
The “rebounding in a crowd” thing is also huge, that shows that he has the great spatial awareness and quick-twitch reflexes to go with the competitiveness. This ain’t your Andy Rautins, Cleanthony Early second round pick of yesteryear.
Knox looked pretty bad, but all-in-all, nice preview.
#9?
I could have seen him going to Memphis, Minnesota, Orlando, and of course, NY.
So 4, 20, 6, 9.
This looks like a very solid draft class overall.
I mean, there are some negatives with him, he gets spun around like a top and he strictly a dunker on O for now, but his shot-blocking instincts and quick-twitch rebounding motor are other-worldly. Barring injury, he’s making an impact this year, even if only in limited minutes due to rookie brainfarts and fouls.
Message to Fiz: Release the Kraken!
Among the bigs, I’d rather have JJJ and WCJ, but I think he’s right there with Bamba, Bagley, and Ayton at this point. He was right with them before college, and, based on what he’s shown, he should still be there.
It’s tough to say where he’d go now because everyone’s looked good for the most part (other than Bagley). At least in the 15-20 range I’d say.
@117 I don’t see him getting taken over any of the more consensus lottery picks who are playing well in summer league, not because he doesn’t merit it, but I think the stigma of not playing for a year is still there. Maybe 15-20?
It would be funny if Willie makes more 3s this year than Kornet.
Man I love this draft just for getting Robinson.
Right? A lot of teams really helped themselves this year. And then the Hawks were also present.
I think right around #15 sounds right for Robinson in a re-draft right now. It’s tough, though. Lots of moving parts, ya know?
I still can’t believe Cleveland turned down Doncic to avoid paying Bazemore. That’s neither here nor there, I just wanted to complain about it. 😉
We can disagree on Knox, but there’s no denying that Robinson is well endowed.
I think they meant that Knox is amphibious, like a salamander.
If Mitchel can figure out how to do work on the defensive glass he’s going to be a real handful
It’s already evident that MitchRob is the best player on the New York Knicks. Do what you may with this information.
MitchRob at 36 is the best pick in the entire draft. Take that for endowment.
In order of likelihood:
# 4 20 6 9
If Enes Kanter is good for one thing and one thing only it’ll be that he’s going to be practicing against MitchRob. He’ll toughen him up in the post and he’ll be unable to stop him in pick and roll situations.
Mitchell Robinson starts 20 games this year. Are you taking the over or the under?
Oh Oak…
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/former-nba-player-charles-oakley-arrested-in-las-vegas-accused-of-fraudulent-betting-act/
@130 Under probably. Kanter is pretty durable.
@60
Thanks.
I paid very close attention to OKC last year because of the discussions we had here after Melo and George joined the team. That was one of those significant changes that offered a chance to learn something.
That’s the kind of thing I like to do to support or refute various models.
They all try to allocate total WINS. But even when they get close that doesn’t mean they were allocated correctly to the individual players. So when there are very significant shifts, that’s a good test.
I used to do the same thing when I had time to gamble on the games.
I used to make a line for every single NBA game using a spreadsheet model I created that I adjusted for some subjective analysis of matchups and recent information. I would store that, the Vegas line, and every injury for every single game (before and after announcement if it was significant and moved the line late). That gave me the ability to estimate how Vegas was valuing certain players vs. what various models were suggesting vs. what I thought vs. what was actually happening on the court. I did that for a few years. It was so manually intensive I had to stop because of the horse racing work I still do. But I did see patterns to the errors in the models and occasional errors in player evaluation in Vegas.
Man, that was really something. Robinson has the athleticism of a young AD, but taller/longer. He’s much rawer and has a ton to learn on both sides of the ball (and isn’t even really in game shape) but he’s such a draft steal, it’s ridiculous. I can’t believe he’s locked in for 4 years!
KP has to be psyched because now it’s likely he’ll stay at PF.
But I have to say… why does Hicks have a contract again?
I can’t wait to see Robinson and KP on the court together.
If he develops like we all hope, eventually he’s going to give us the same offensive rebounding and efficient inside scoring that Kanter gives us, but without the huge drag on defense. It make take awhile for him to learn to avoid the foolish fouls and get all the coverages right, but we already know he has the athleticism, length, and shot blocking ability we will never get from Kanter. And of course the price will be a ridiculous bargain if this is not just an illusion.
KP, Frank and Mitch on defense is terrifying.
When you say Mitchell Robinson would most likely go 4th in a redraft after 4 summer league games you’ve pretty much lost the right to ever copy and paste the the Wikipedia link to the endowment effect again.
Having said that, I’m def buying stock in MRob.
He took the shitty two-way contract, so perhaps they didn’t think he’d actually accept it, and they were sort of stuck when offering it?
I’m trying to be open minded and optimistic about Knox, but what is that everyone sees in him that leads them to believe he can eventually be an NBA starter? What I see is a guy chucking up a shit ton of shots in summer league and most of them not going in. Aren’t guys like that a dime a dozen?
That being said, it’s way too early to be writing him off, and I’m hoping that he’s the proverbial “project” that the coaching staff can work with and improve his overall game over time. Patience will be a virtue with this kid.
Robinson on the other hand – it’s like I’m starting to think I’ll be disappointed if his ceiling is Hassan Whiteside.
The entire league is taking notice of how Robinson’s been playing. I wonder if the Celtics are regretting taking Robert Williams over him.
I still can’t believe Robinson lasted long enough for the Knicks to get them. Fuck the heck, Dallas?
Knox missed a lot of easy 3’s today that you hope will eventually go down. He isn’t ISo’ing that much so its not he’s stalling the offense like Melo did.
@139
What I think people see in Knox is the natural talent and athletic ability to create good shots on his own on top of being able to score in other ways. That means he has the potential to become a high usage scorer. Not everyone is blessed with those talents.
The test is going to be developing his shooting, handling, finishing, and decision making skills further so he can become a high usage efficient scorer. Some guys are blessed with these natural abilities but never get the decision making and shot selection part of it down (Melo). Some guys don’t work hard enough at the skills to get them to a really high level. I’m not sure there’s a way to know which way it will go with him. But when you see the talent, you know he has something that many players are not blessed with. So you get excited and pray. He’s got a long way to go.
Yeah.
I thought Frank, KP, and Bridges was going to be an excellent defensive trio. We didn’t get that, but we may have a different defensive trio to get excited about. This could be so awesome if the 3 of them and Knox all develop well over the next few years. We’d be almost set defensively and offensively.
Edit: I almost explained the comment, but I’d rather you bookmark it to remind me. Please copy and paste the link to that comment as often as you’d like
#42069
Man if we could just add RJ Barrett and Kyrie Irving to what we already have we’d be set.
KP/MitchRob is an interesting combo. I’d imagine Robinson would match up against 4s on defense. I worry his talents would be wasted there, but with his insane closeout ability and general mobility, maybe not.
Also, Knox/KP/MitchRob would put a ton of passing/ball-handling pressure on the rest of the lineup.
True. We need a playmaking 1 or 2 in addition to Frank.
Yeah but the margin for error he allows on those lobs is tremendous. He’s got the quickness to front 4’s at the line, he’s not afraid of dudes blowing past him and they mostly didn’t. He might be an ideal front court fit with KP.
Nah, I want you to be right. Plus I’m pretty high on the guy, too. And frankly, it’s nice to see you excited. This guy could be your dream come true.
We have to steal Ball while we have the chance.
Maybe we can get the Lakers to pass him into the post and Robinson will just scoop him up. Take him for a ride.
Having Robinson on D makes Burke a lot more playable, and Burke is a pretty good playmaker! And if he can turn those long twos into threes, we could really have something.
So does mitchell Robinson start at the 4 next to Kanter? Or does he take Kanter’s spot at the 5?
I figure starting lineup at beginning of season will be:
Kanter
Hezonja
Knox
Hardaway
Burke
With Frank having a chance to start at either guard spot depending on how his preseason goes.
Robinson will come off the bench for a while as he learns the basics, stops fouling so much, etc.
If I had to guess what the depth chart is going to look like, it would probably be:
PG: Burke, Ntilikina, Mudiay
SG: Hardaway Jr, Lee, Dotson, Baker
SF: Hezonja, Thomas, Williams
PF: Knox, Hicks
C: Kanter, Robinson, Kornet, Noah
That starting 5 has no chance in the world at being any higher than 29th defensively and offensively we don’t have a 40% shooter from 3 on the floor, but I think those guys will all get the starting nod. Hopefully TH2 is on trade watch.
Surprisingly Mitch only had one foul today.
I can’t remember when there was consensus on KB like there is about MitchRob. This is beautiful.
@158
Well, me too, but let’s not get too comfortable, people are already saying he just dunks on offense and needs a more versatile offensive game, so the Tyson Chandler never-ending discussions will certainly make a comeback in 2018.
I just want our own DeAndre Jordan or Clint Capela. It’s been so long since we had an unexpected steal on the draft so everyone is justifiably giddy.
The season will probably still be dark and full of losses, but at least the games should be super watchable.
The offensive game plan should be:
“Timmeh, shoot a lot. Shoot all the time. Never stop shooting. Score lots of pointzz, and we will trade you somewhere.”
Some more fuel for the hype, taken from reddit: summer league stats for Ayton and Robinson.
Ayton: 14.5 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 1 BPG
Robinson: 12.75 PPG, 9.75 RPG, 3.75 BPG
If I had to guess – because of respect to veterans, season ticket holders, and the boss that traded for Mudiay – we’ll begin the year:
PG Mudiay, Burke
SG Lee, Frank
SF Hardaway, Thomas
PF Hezonja, Knox
C Kanter, Robinson
Obviously the bench unit with Burke, Frank, Knox, and Robinson is who we all want to see. I just think it will take time.
Who has been the best summer league player so far?
Of the rookies? Probably JJJ or Carter.
I was very impressed with Melton, as well.
Ayton and SGA weren’t too shabby, also.
I even liked what I saw from Giles! He’s still a rookie, right?
Definitely not JJJr, but Wendell Carter Jr looks like the 1st pick in the draft.
Jaren Jackson Jr. just had 16 points, six rebounds, two assists, one steal and three blocks tonight and has played really strong defense so far this Summer League.
But yes, Carter has been fantastic, too.
yeah, so long as there are those who suggest that vintage Tyson Chandler and vintage Anthony Davis are equally productive, they most certainly will.
Where does he go in a re-draft?
such a good question. I think maybe 9-12ish? Too bad we don’t have polls here, would love to see what % would keep Robbed’em son over Knox if we were forced to lose one.
@168 that’s a great question! I’m glad we don’t have to answer it right now.
Come on Brian, his stats were dwarfed by those of some obscure 2nd rounder, how good can he be?
i would say carter and sga have really impressed… and we are talking like dominant impressive… it’s not really highlight reel but they are playing in a class all their own… and i’m really pissed that we failed to even work out sga….
of the non-rookies it’s probably jonathan isaac who’s surprised the most…
and i was actually somewhat close to rating robinson over knox even before the draft…. and in a re-draft i definitely would pick him over knox….
SGA looks like a ballplayer, too. His change of pace moves, downhill speed, and finishing touch all remind me of Harden. It’s kind of eerie to me.
No way to tell whether his version of those moves works against NBA-level defenses, of course, but he looks refined and at ease on the floor. That’s the kind of player I’d like on the Knicks, rather than “raw talent.”
I wonder what the defense actually feels like for these young point guards. These guys are largely playing rec-league defense, in the sense that they may have played together no more than a dozen times, and in various forms, before starting the competition. But at the same time, they’re playing hard, since it’s an audition for a roster slot. Coordination or intensity — what’s harder to overcome?
The general consensus is that the ideal frontcourt partner for Porzingis would need to have two essential traits: plus rebounding ability, and enough quickness to guard stretch fours on the perimeter. Looks like we may have found our man. Obviously it’s no guarantee that Robinson is going to develop into a good player, but if he does, he’s the ideal TYPE of player to fit next to KP.
The Nets are surely going in on renting cap space for picks, I like their moves quite a bit. Kinda sucks for us because they’ll be a heavy competitor for the lottery
Wow, really solid moves for the Nets. Essentially traded Jeremy Lin, Isiah Whitehead, a 2025 second rounder and a 2023 second rounder pick swap for Kenneth Faried, Darrell Arthur, a mid-teens 2019 first rounder (it is protected #1-12. It is unlikely that the Nuggets are picking #1-12) and a future Denver second rounder.
Since the Hawks say they plan on keeping Lin, that’s got to mean that Schroeder is on the way out the door, right? Lin and Young in the backcourt, the Hawks won’t be boring to watch, at least!
The Nets will probably keep Faried, but if they cut him, that’d be a fascinating guy out there for teams to look at for the vet minimum (since he’d be getting his full salary from the Nets).
Not terrible for the Nuggets either. Got themselves under the tax limit and only lost a fairly heavily protected first rounder. Plus they managed to sign Thomas on a cheap deal, kept Barton and maintained there young core. Thomas could be cooked, but on that kind of a deal it was worth a flyer if they are serious about making a playoff push.
Oh, yeah, the first rounder was definitely worth the tax savings for the Nuggets. I agree that they did well for themselves. Although I don’t think “#1-12 protection” is all that heavy of a protection. That’s extremely likely to transfer next draft, right? They’ll very possibly miss the playoffs, but if they do, they’ll almost certainly be #13 or #14. The odds of Denver picking #12 or lower seems to be quite low. In any event, the Thomas move was also a nice low risk/high reward move.
Well, it protects them from an early season-ending Jokic injury, which I guess is their line of thinking.
wrong thread