Knicks Morning News (2017.09.27)

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Knicks training camp opens up without Melo
    (Wednesday, September 27, 2017 12:28:56 AM)

    SNY’s Michelle Yu reports from Knicks’ camp and gets reactions from Kristaps Porzingis and Jeff Hornacek after the Carmelo Anthony move.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Whose absence will benefit the Knicks more?
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 6:25:06 PM)

    The Daily News Live panel debates if the Knicks will benefit more from the absence of the recently traded Carmelo Anthony or Phil Jackson.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Cavaliers nixed Carmelo Anthony deal because Knicks wanted Tristan Thompson
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 5:39:02 PM)

    The Knicks were unable to trade Carmelo Anthony to the Cavaliers because they wanted Tristan Thompson in return, and Cleveland wasn’t willing to agree to such a deal, reports Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News, citing sources.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis says Knicks ran triangle elements Tuesday, Hornacek downplays it
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 2:15:08 PM)

    Knicks F Kristaps Porzingis said the team ran some triangle offense elements during practice on Tuesday, but head coach Jeff Hornacek said they were simply “basketball” actions.

  • [SNY Knicks] Joakim Noah focused on redeeming himself this season
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:10:48 PM)

    Knicks C Joakim Noah is looking to put his first year as a Knick behind him, and redeem himself this season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Timeout with Taylor Rooks: Knicks forward Michael Beasley
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:45:08 AM)

    In the latest episode of Timeout with Taylor Rooks, 8-year NBA veteran and Knicks forward Michael Beasley stops by SNY to discuss his unique fashion sense, the impact of certain words in the English language, and how he is impacted by his reputation around the league.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis wants to lead Knicks through work ethic
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:28:08 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Kristaps Porzingis didn’t feel compelled to be more vocal or act much differently during his first practice as the Knicks’ new go-to guy. Porzingis said he will first lead with his work ethic.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks ready to run as Jeff Hornacek wants to open up the offense
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:21:21 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — The Knicks opened training camp Tuesday with a new outlook, a new franchise player, a new offense and some traces of a system from the recent past.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks Insider podcast: After Carmelo Anthony trade, this is Kristaps Porzingis’ team
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:15:13 PM)

    The deal finally got done.

  • [NYDN] Why a Knicks – Cavs trade for Carmelo wouldn’t have worked
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:34:43 PM)

    The Knicks, according to a source, asked the Cavaliers for young rebounding machine Tristan Thompson.

  • [NYDN] Melo leaves Knicks on good terms as agent talks ‘win-win’ trade
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:25:59 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony’s agent praised the Knicks for agreeing to trade the All-Star forward prior to the start of training camp.

  • [NYDN] Michael Beasley attempts to blow minds with bizarre brain theory
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:12:44 PM)

    Michael Beasley has been making headlines with his thoughts, but his latest conversation about brain power might’ve been a brain fart.

  • [NYDN] Hornacek working on installing a better offense for the Knicks
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:18:15 PM)

    The Knicks project as pitiful on defense again, so their best chance of winning games is scoring A LOT of points.

  • [NYPost] What Carmelo does and does not need to change with the Thunder
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:30:20 PM)

    OKLAHOMA CITY — Carmelo Anthony laughed. To him, it was the only possible reaction after being asked how he’d feel about coming off the bench with the Thunder. Anthony has played 976 games, starting each one. He is a 10-time All-Star. He is a former scoring champion. But Anthony is no longer the biggest star…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis offers some insight into his leadership style
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 4:25:32 PM)

    With a monster slam dunk off a fast-break drill, Kristaps Porzingis finished up his first Knicks practice with Carmelo Anthony wiped from the roster. His teammates surrounded Porzingis for high-fives. Porzingis is now “The Man” — and leader — at age 22. Anthony’s six-year, seven-month reign as the Knicks’ franchise player truly ended on the…

  • [NYPost] What is Knicks’ post-Melo starting 5 going to look like?
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:33:20 AM)

    With Carmelo Anthony in Oklahoma City, Jeff Hornacek is looking at an empty canvas, facing three openings in the starting lineup. And he hardly sounded worried about filling Anthony’s void at small forward. In fact, Hornacek couldn’t have sounded less sentimental that Anthony is no longer a Knick. Courtney Lee, last season’s starting shooting guard,…

  • [NYPost] Jeff Hornacek is in triangle denial
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 9:27:36 AM)

    The triangle is not totally dead. After the first day of training camp practice, Kristaps Porzingis said there were some triangle actions Jeff Hornacek’s coaching staff reviewed. Somewhere in Montana, exiled president Phil Jackson is smiling. Porzingis admitted he has no idea if they’ll use that stuff in the gameplan, but it’s not a dead…

  • [NYTimes] News Analysis: Chuck Person, With N.C.A.A. and N.B.A. Pedigree, Runs Afoul of F.B.I.
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:45:43 PM)

    Federal investigators say Person, who spent 13 seasons in the N.B.A., participated in a bribery scheme as a coach at Auburn.

  • 119 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.09.27)”

    Sounds like Lee has a good chance of being a starter, likely being asked to defend the better of the 2 wings on the court. Too bad he’s 6’5″! But you have to think he’s a much better defensive option than McD and Beas.
    They’re presumably giving Frank ever opportunity to start too. Frank/TH2/Lee/KP/Willy should be a very well-rounded lineup, if not an amazing one. Then you have guys fight for bench roles by proving they can play D. Baker vs. Dotson, Beas vs. McD vs. Kuz, Kanter vs. O’Quinn. Maybe Beas is more of a backup pf here?

    You know, we’re probably not going to be very good this year (33 wins is my prediction) but I can see myself really getting behind this team. Personnel-wise it’s not really similar to the pre-Melo Amare Knicks, but it has the right feel to it. Just think what we’ve had to endure the last 6+ seasons that we no longer have to deal with basketball-wise (in no particular order):
    – Melo and all the on-court drama that Chris Smith
    – CAA running the team
    – Grunwald hiding from the Rockets and their RFA offer to Lin
    – Bargnani
    – Amare and his red wine baths
    – Phil Jackson
    – the Triangle
    – Derrick Rose

    Instead of all that crap, we’ve got a bunch of really fun young and rootable players – I was listening to Zach Lowe and Kevin Arnovitz this morning, and one thing Arnovitz said about the Spurs and Pop is that the Spurs look for players who are “over themselves” — and it finally feels like we may have gotten there. Yes, the defense will be a work in progress (to say the least), and we need to figure out who is can get teammates open shots, but it just seems like a young fun team.

    Say what you want about Steve Mills (and his involvement in the Isiah sexual harrassment fiasco is deplorable), but at least he seems like he has the right strategy in mind, even if his tactics are not ideal (see: THJ overpay, ridiculous Baker contract). Get what you can for Melo, turn the page, commit to a rebuild with dudes under 25. Don’t trade picks. And Scott Perry – I’m not sure how much he had to do with the generally awful moves by the Hennigan regime in Orlando, but I’m impressed with him so far. At least he seems to have a general idea of what’s a bad deal (3y/60M 29 year old Ryan Anderson for a rebuilding team) and what’s a deal we can live with.

    I’ve been one of the executive committee members on Team Optimism, took a short sabbatical, but now I’m back.

    33 wins
    move up into the top 3 in the lottery
    pick one of Porter, Doncic, or Bagley
    WIN

    I’m reading my post over and it’s crazy how low my expectations have gotten for our front office
    *smh / lol*

    @Frank

    I agree.

    I’ve listened to a few pods in the aftermath of the Melo trade and the double standards for the Knicks are hilarious. For 2 years a lot of these same people have been begging for them to move Melo and build around Porzingis and now I’m hearing many of them walk it back and talk about how losing a lot could be bad for his development and that the Knicks are still hopeless moving forward.

    I think the return on the Melo deal is what it is. I think Kanter is a net neutral who can be very valuable against teams that use 2 bigs or lack credible 3P shooting, but is unplayable against some of the better small ball teams in the league. McDermott I don’t care for and wish we had pushed for Grant’s inclusion instead. The 2nd round pick I’ve seen get tossed aside as a nothing asset, but Chicago’s 2nd rounder this year is a decent pickup, relatively level in expected value to a 20-30 1st round pick.

    The deal also has the benefit of not screwing us with the cap anymore than Melo staying here would have (Kanter 1+1 and McBuckets > Melo 1+1). It’s not the return I dreamed about, but considering the situation with Melo threatening to sit out and yet another major distraction at the outset of the season, I think Perry did well in his first major move as Knicks GM. Considering that all else he had on the table was the Cavs’ unwanted garbage and no picks or Ryan Anderson and maybe a pick, which would have been years away and likely lottery protected this return is fine.

    His next task is to try to alleviate the logjam in the frontcourt with KOQ the most likely candidate to move on with what is likely to be an expiring contract and as somebody who probably isn’t a long term piece in the rebuild.

    There’s still a lot of work to be done, but not having the specter of Carmelo Anthony’s feelings and emotions looming over everything is quite refreshing.

    Can anyone who found Mad Men to be more interesting, culturally significant and better written than the Wire please put that in their signature or avatar or something, so I can be sure to ignore anything they say.
    Thanks for your cooperation.

    I fully expect the team to suck, mainly because we’ll probably have the worst pg on the floor in most games, but I am excited to watch for the first time since the melo trade .

    I’m taking the over on this team as I expect the D to be surprising okay (at least league average). Defense is a function of effort, which was largely absent last season, thanks mostly to Rose’s cluelessness and Melo’s ambivalence.

    The FO has consistently indicated that they more than okay with Lee and TH2 at the 2 and 3. They REALLY like what Lee brings to the team and it will take an overwhelming offer for the Knicks to give him up. He’s not going anywhere.

    And if Frank is about to earn the starting 1, that makes for the best perimeter D the Knicks have had since Van Gundy’s Ward/Houston/Sprewell backcourt.

    I want a top 5 pick in the next draft, so I’m hoping for some exciting ball, highlighted by offensive improvements from Frank (good 3 pt shooting, improved handle, good vision), KP, Timmy and Willy(more range, hopefully some 3s), along with a lot of slopiness/turnovers and mostly poor defense.

    @7 – I actually think the D will be better than expected also. Melo and Rose, two of the very worst defenders at their positions, played a total of about 4500 minutes last year. When Melo and Rose were on the floor together, the Knicks gave up an extra-flammable 114.5 defensive rating (per nbawowy), which, considering the Warriors led the league with a 113 offensive rating last year, tells you how bad we were when those two were on the floor. without BOTH Melo and Rose on the floor, our DRtg was 106, which was basically a league average defense.

    Now also consider that a notably terrible defender Brandon Jennings played most of the PG minutes while Rose was out and you get a sense of how truly terrible Rose was.

    The PG minutes will likely get split in some way between Sessions, Ntilikina, and Baker. We don’t know what Ntilikina is yet, but it seems reasonable to think he’ll be at least an average defender in year 1. Baker was pretty decent defensively last year. And Sessions has been somewhere between league average to 30th percentile (where 100th is best) at least by DRPM over the last several seasons – still way better than Rose. Jack seems likely to be cut since we already have 15 guaranteed contracts.

    Put that all together and the defense has a shot of being 18-20th as opposed to 25-28th which is where we were for most of the year last year.

    There is a world in which we surprise and challenge for the 8th seed – and that’s if Hornacek’s offense yields way better shots than we got last year and the offense is basically league average and the defense is 18th. Average offense and just below average defense is probably a 7th or 8th seed in the Eastern Conference.

    That wouldn’t be a great outcome in terms of getting one of those top 3 guys in the draft, but it probably would mean the team (and the young players on it) are headed in the right general direction.

    This is gonna be fun year. The Beas will make it so. Especially if he uses more than 10% of his talent.

    Too bad we still don’t have JR, he and Beasley could have been the Beavis and Butthead of the Knicks.

    @1 yesterday Noblefacehumper wrote about Wily trade speculation. Are there credible rumors of this or is this just him being pissed at his friends?

    I can see us shooting this rebuild right in the foot with a Wily / Boogie Cousins swap because Knicks. Gosh, I’m hoping we proceed cautiously and correctly for a change. JIM, WE DON’T NEED A “STAR”. Can’t you just see it though? Wily plus our #1, like, with two weeks to go in camp so we also blow up everything coach puts in place…

    OK, I’m off the ledge…My biggest (actual) concern is that KP is gonna force shots rather than get them off of flow. There’s really no reason to take a contested shot for the most part in the NBA. We gotta trust everyone and MAKE THAT FUCKING BALL SING, BITCHES! Why can’t we be like PHO SSOL or GSW? Selfless, fun, cutting, passing…More possessions for us, more chances to score, modern NBA basketball.

    No more trades now. We can only mess this up. I like O’Quinn and Lee. Those offers better be no brainers or click. If we trade a foundational piece I really will be done. No bull shit. I’m not going through this again.

    The Knicks are gonna surprise everybody involved and win 47 games. Between KP, Kanter, Hernangomez, and O’Quinn the frontcourt will produce 32 wins. Tim Hardaway Jr and Courtney Lee will produce 8-10 wins between each other and the field will produce the rest of the wins getting us into the mid 40s.

    Book it.

    Why can’t we be like PHO SSOL or GSW?

    Because we have some of the worst passing players at each position except at C, where Willy, KOQ, and Noah are above average.

    Sessions, Jack and Baker, are below average passers at PG.
    THJr is a black hole, Lee is average at SG.
    Beasley is a black hole, Lance Thomas is a black hole, Doug McDermott is black hole, Kuz is average
    Porzingis is a below average (And I’m being generous), Kanter is a black hole
    Noah, KOQ and Willy are above average.

    Perhaps some of this is fruit of the system we were running… but I dont think they can improve much. The biggest question mark is Ntilikina.

    how can you say no more trades!?!

    there is a total glut at the 5 spot and no pg … we need to be paying close attention to roster cuts after camp…dont the cavs have an extra player with wade signed, who gets cut?

    Frank/TH2/Lee/KP/Willy should be a very well-rounded lineup, if not an amazing one.

    Harper/Starks/Mase/Oak/Patrick=Amazing
    Clyde/Pearl/Bradley/DeBusschere/Reed=Amazing
    xx/xx/Bernard/xx/xx vs the entire state of texas, 1983=Amazing

    I think it’s a bit difficult to predict how our defense is going to be since the roster is still kind of a mess, but a Baker/Ntilikina, Lee, THJr perimeter is probably better than what we rolled out last year. I’m not sure how you can project Timmy-was his defense improvement in Atlanta because he was in a different system or has he changed as a player? He was atrocious last time he was here.

    I watched quite a bit of Timmy last year, which ultimately changed my opinion on him as a player prior to FA. His team defense is a lot better and he knows when to make the proper rotations. In isolation he’s not the best, because he still takes too wide a stance and that makes him susceptible to get blown by off the dribble. He’s also prone to getting bullied and outmuscled by bigger wings, though the strength he’s added makes this far less frequent. Also, like basically every player in the league, he sometimes falls asleep off the ball.

    Overall I’d say he’s probably slightly below average defensively. Think of him as like a 40th percentile defender. He’s not the black hole of suck that can single handedly submarine a team’s defense like he was in his first couple of seasons in New York. He’s capable of being a cog in a good defense if you have more impactful players around him. We have KP and maybe Frank, so we probably are a safe bet to still suck, but if we can add to that as we move forward I don’t think THJ is going to be an impediment.

    I’m not trying to hijack this thread to return to yesterday’s, but I agree with everything you said, Silky. Except that The Wire isn’t in that top tier, because it is. (Also, I read Simon’s Homicide, which is also a magnificent piece of long-form journalism.)

    Me loving Mulholland Drive has nothing to do with intelligence. It has everything to do with emotional resonance. Few movies have hit me right in the feel bone as an adult — The Tree of Life, a couple films by the Dardenne Brothers, and Mulholland Drive. If I wanted to be a fake-genius mystic I’d watch Aronofsky. I want to be mesmerized, so I watch Lynch. I just don’t get Twin Peaks and I’m not sure why, since Mulholland Drive plays to great effect the tone shifts between high camp and existential horror.

    “I’m a lucky guy and I’m happy to be with the Knicks. And I want to thank everyone for making this night necessary.”

    Yogi Beasley

    Lavor I’m convinced he was a better defender on Atlanta, I’m just hoping that he can carry that over absent the Atlanta system.

    There are 2 ways to look at TH2 and his defensive win shares from last season:

    1. Either he is that good, or
    2. Teamed with other capable defenders, was able to handle his role and trust his teammates.

    Both of which are positives.

    My bold prediction for this team was going to be that we were going to be much better defensively than people think…and much worse offensively. Seems at least the first point is not so bold as many others are also sensing the potential for a lot of improvement on defense. If you look at the current roster without getting too tied up on how bad last years team was on D (which I think as Frank highlighted well had a lot to do with Melo, and even more so Rose), there’s a core of a halfway decent defensive team here:

    We’re going to play two bigs most of the time, which is a good place to start, and those bigs, Kanter excepted, are all solid on D. We’ve dramatically improved the defense at the PG, and Hardaway was sneakily pretty decent on D in ATL (although I agree with DRed on the difficulties of knowing if that really translates). We have a couple decent wing defenders in Lee and Thomas. We lack size on the wing, and teams that can naturally play small may take advantage of KP, OQuinn etc trying to guard on the perimeter (saw a lot of this last year), but I’m also seeing a D that should be more like league average than worst in the league.

    Frank,

    I agree with you, but it’s not Mills that put us on this path. It was Phil.

    The only thing Mills did was overpay for Hardaway, overpay for Baker, and bring in Perry. Since then, Perry made a Melo trade that was basically meh. Of course maybe overpaying 2 players and a meh trade is better than what Phil would have done with that cap space and Melo, but Porzingis, Hernangomez, Frank, Baker, Dotson, all the cap space (that Mill used badly) and having all our picks was all Phil.

    Had Phil made the same exact trade that Perry made, he would have been crucified in the press and on forums for adding a big man that plays no defense to a team that’s still starving for defensive minded players and that already has a glut there. That’s the way it is. Once people have a view, they dig in, their biases overwhelm their objectivity, and balance goes out the window.

    For all his warts, personality quirks, and mistakes, Phil turned the ship around and got fired for it before we started sailing.

    Had Phil made the same exact trade that Perry made, he would have been crucified in the press and on forums for adding a big man that plays no defense to a team that’s still starving for defensive minded players and that already has a glut there. That’s the way it is. Once people have a view, they dig in, their biases overwhelm their objectivity, and balance goes out the window.

    But Phil wasn’t going to make the deal Perry made. In fact, he was trying to do something ten times worse by buying Melo out. Not even to mention the fact that he was all in on resigning Derrick Rose. Sorry, I’ve defended Phil many times, but shitting on the current GM to make his mistakes look brighter isn’t right.

    For all his warts, personality quirks, and mistakes, Phil turned the ship around and got fired for it before we started sailing.

    Nope.

    First of all, Phil steered the ship towards the iceberg in the first place by giving out the heinous MMM/NTC contract. The usual “right about everything” suspects here howled in pain after that contract was given out, and were, as usual, proven to be right about it in very short order. He also saddled the team with the useless and insane Joakim Noah contract, which again was hated by Team Realist and again was proven to be an unmitigated disaster and one of the very worst contracts in the NBA before season one of it was over. He flushed an entire season down the toilet by handing the keys to the team over to the hollowed out husk of Derrick Rose, with painfully predictable results.

    He was all set to buy out Melo and get nothing in return except two years of dead cap space for him, and was even rumored to be open to the idea of bringing back Broken Derrick Rose for an encore. Along the way he also managed to poison the team’s relationship with its potential franchise player, to the point where he was shopping KP around to other teams.

    Turned the ship around, my ass. He was laughably incompetent, and the team’s shitty record during his tenure and paucity of assets after his departure are all the evidence you need to see what a fucking disaster he was.

    Had Phil made the same exact trade that Perry made, he would have been crucified in the press and on forums for adding a big man that plays no defense to a team that’s still starving for defensive minded players and that already has a glut there. That’s the way it is. Once people have a view, they dig in, their biases overwhelm their objectivity, and balance goes out the window.

    Nope again. If Phil had made the Melo for Kanter/McBuckets/pick trade, I would have absolutely lauded him for it. I love the trade, even though we didn’t get much back in return, because at least we’re moving forward and not spinning our wheels for once. The Melo era is over, YAY! I’ll give Phil credit for the good moves he made: he drafted KP. I liked that pick at the time, and obviously it looks good now. He drafted Willy, great value in the second round. I’m even giving him the benefit of the doubt on the Ntilikina pick, because he did so well with his other international picks.

    Overall though, he was a shit GM, and that is factorial.

    Losing Melo and Rose helps our defense, but this team still has plenty of defensive problems. We have no elite defenders, a few awful ones (Kanter, McB, Beas), and a bunch of below average ones.

    If we play only big men at PF, which is likely, we’ll see the same disaster we saw last year from Zing trying to guard smaller 4s on the perimeter. But it’ll be even worse, because it’ll be Kanter trying too.

    Frank will hopefully turn into a plus defender soon, but he’s a rookie, so he’ll likely struggle this year. Sessions is a historically poor defender and the hustlebunny Ron Baker tries hard but wasn’t that effective last year.

    So I see us struggling mightily to defend big wings and point guards. In our division alone, you have Philly (Simmons and Fultz), Toronto (Lowry), Boston (Kyrie and Morris), and Brooklyn (Lin and Rondae) that are going to give our PF and PG defenders a lot of trouble.

    Knick-ality check
    For starters, don’t be surprised if Melo has a big year. He looks in the best shape ever, worked hard on his game this off-season, and has something to prove.
    But, that’s not the point.

    Melo had to go. Ol’ Sticky Fingers still hasn’t figured out team basketball. Before day one, I knew the Melo experiment would be a collosal failure. He’s a proven loser.
    And this too is not the point.

    Fact is, knicks swindled themselves once again. This is a big name sport. Big name guys that are in early stages of career downside, that are fan favorites!!!, command high prices – First round picks. A young player with a lot of potential. A good contract on a missing piece (PG).

    The knicks got crap in return for Melo. Perhaps they gained a little financial meaneuverability, but worsened the current team in the process. . Enes and McD are servicable players. They’re not starters. I would barely call them good bench players. And let’s face it. Second round picks are usually don’t turn out great. Once in a while you can strike gold, but it’s infrequent.

    There was no reason to rush into a bad trade because of potential bad press, to please Melo, or for any other reason.

    TRADE GRADE: F
    Notes.- Another move like that, Perry should be gone.

    He also saddled the team with the useless and insane Joakim Noah contract, which again was hated by Team Realist and again was proven to be an unmitigated disaster and one of the very worst contracts in the NBA before season one of it was over.

    Re: the Noah contract – it is rare that there was total bipartisan (Team Optimist and Team Realist) agreement that that was an awful contract. My god what was he thinking. The AAV is bad enough, but to give 4 guaranteed years to that guy was 1000% worse than THJ’s RFA or Ron Baker’s legitimately unexplainable contract.

    I actually like(d) Noah as a player and I really do hope he bounces back. He does give us something at the 5 that the others don’t, namely defense, passing, and rebounding. But I see zero chance that he justifies more than mop up duty given the need to develop Willy and to try and develop some sort of a trade market for Kanter.

    dam @LT letter…
    beyond man crush but heartlfelt!

    lets not pretend Phil initiated a rebuild, he didnt, noah and the NTC are polar opposite moves…the ntc was bad but signing Melo in the first place was bad too… I had high hopes phil wouldve done something against the grain like walk in and not sign melo… everyone wouldve said wtf is phil doing, and we wouldve said he is rebuilding finally but he didnt. end of story.

    As a caveat, though, I do think our players will at least try hard on defense even though we’ll finish in the bottom 10. That’s much more pleasant to watch than Melo and Rose standing and pointing.

    The Knicks were the worst defensive rebounding team in the NBA last year, and were 26th in the league in defensive TOV%.

    Most of the guys who logged minutes at center rebounded pretty well, but the team got crummy rebounding at just about every other position. I don’t see any real improvements being made in this regard. We still have a bunch of wings who don’t rebound, and we have KP at power forward, and he doesn’t rebound so hot either. I would venture to guess that we’ll probably be one of the worst rebounding teams in the league again.

    In terms of turnovers, it doesn’t look like there are going to be improvements there either unless Ntilikina can stick in the rotation and generate some steals. We have a lot of one-dimensional players on this team who lack secondary skills, and the new pieces we added this year fall into the same category. It’s hard to generate turnovers when you have guards who do very little to impede ballhandlers. This is one reason why Ntilikina is such a welcome addition, but he is probably a couple of years away from being a real net positive.

    i always thought indiana did a lot better than people thought in return for PG considering he was one and done.

    Nah he’s a proven loser so we should have pulled first round picks and stud young players for him.

    Less than 3 weeks before the season and I’m beyond hyped. I’m excited to see Cleveland and Boston and of course Okc. I amean excited for a new beginning for the Bockers. Our young guys have a lot to prove this year. KP making his all star games and seeing what the fuck frank is lol.

    So, uh, Rick Pitino got fired after the FBI investigation scandal.

    I though that Indiana trade was just awful.

    Sabonis basically showed nothing last year – sure, he was a rookie, but a 46.9 TS, sub-10% TRB%, and miniscule block/steal rates are sub-Bargnani-an.

    Oladipo is fine, except he is getting $21MM/year for the next 4 years, and 4 years into his career has never reached a league-average TS or a WS/48 of 0.100. If you ask me, I might rather have THJ at 4 years 71MM than Oladipo at 4 years 84MM.

    OKC stole PG after he told them he wasn’t resigning. And still, Indiana did better than the knicks.

    OKC stole PG after he told them he wasn’t resigning. And still, Indiana did better than the knicks.

    Who do you think has more trade value, a 27-year old Paul George or a 33-year old Carmelo Anthony? How about when you factor in that George’s salary is way less?

    Wouldn’t you kind of expect the Pacers to get a better package for George than the Knicks could get for Melo?

    I feel bad for Lance – he’s gonna be so bummed when Melo stops answering his texts.

    It didn’t stop the knicks from backing up the truck for him. Melo sells seats. And hope.
    The knicks could have got more for him.

    He’s has actually won things that are actually proven. Like factually

    I’m talking NBA.

    Because we have some of the worst passing players at each position except at C, where Willy, KOQ, and Noah are above average.

    Passing is something good teams look to do do. Yes, it’s an elite skill that can be measured individually but that’s not what I meant. The most important benefit of having Melo gone is that, hopefully, we’ll pass the ball more. I’m not necessarily talking about the thread the needle variety. I’m talking easy passes. I’m talking about all players on the court being threats to score. I’m talking about, as Clyde says, “move the ball, move yourself”. Coach needs to get KP easy buckets and not turn him into a second incarnation of Jamal Crawford juking on the perimeter and launching threes.

    how can you say no more trades!?!

    I like O’Quinn and Lee. I’d like to see what we have. I’d like us not to rush into any more deals. I’m more and more convinced that the best thing about the Melo trade was it’s timing. Holding out would have effected training camp. We need, for once, to go into a season with a team concept. That doesn’t include people on the way out or who missed time for their rape trial. So, let’s roll with this team and figure out who goes and who stays based on what happens on the court. Maybe this roster actually works. As to trade negotiations, let’s get all the leverage we can. Yes, we may have given up some with Melo in the name of the greater good. What’s the rush now?

    you think indiana couldve got more for a one and done player , why didnt they?

    Because they made a bad deal. Every deal has two sides, or more. Sometimes, it’s a win-win trade. Often, one team comes out better than the other.

    Wouldn’t you kind of expect the Pacers to get a better package for George than the Knicks could get for Melo?

    Yes, I agree. But, I think Indiana could have done better.

    I’m told LT actually hated Melo and ron baker submitted that letter to Jeter as a prank. two takeaways:

    1. Melo was giving defensive assignments?

    2. the mystery 1 on 1 victim has no good candidates. Brandon Jennings has the personality but isn’t a young player. KP or Willy? doesn’t sound right.

    haha dope letter

    thanks for sharing that totes…i uh, i think i got some dust stuck in my eye 🙂

    nice to see what 4 years at duke will do for you – lance writes very well…

    that ncaa fbi stuff is ca-razy…i wonder if we’ll hear any names of current nba players brought up…

    my guess would be young mister randle…hmmmm, maybe maurice…

    could it have been big balls baker…

    Rabbit season!

    Troll season!

    Rabbit season!

    Troll season!

    Troll season!

    …Troll season?

    Btw 53 I agree that we shouldn’t make any more moves in the near future…let’s roll with what we have. It’s not the worst thing to have competent backups at the bigger positions.

    I think that some of you are underestimating what Frank Ntilikina will add to this team. He may already be our best defensive player. Plus he’s learned to play the game right in Europe. Wingspan, smarts and desire are a tremendous combination. And the ability to shoot.

    I’m certainly one of Lance Thomas’ biggest…un-fans?…as a player, as I think his greatest benefit is essentially not ruining things when he’s on the court (he doesn’t add anything, but at least he doesn’t take away anything, either), but as a person, I’ve always admired him and that letter was very well-written and incredibly heartfelt. Good for him.

    And yeah, the mystery player is bizarre. Cleanthony is the only guy I could think of, and how could even he possibly think that he could take Melo 1 on 1?

    I always had a feeling Cleanthony Early’s name was an anagram for Carmelo Anthony. So there’s that.

    I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again:

    The only trade to make right now is KOQ/Lee to Charlotte for MKG. Maybe KOQ/Lee for Harkless and fodder, but POR really doesn’t need KOQ & Lee, and we really should trim the roster to get one of the undrafteds on at least. Artis can score, but Hayes is better defensively plus has an all around game where he’s decent in all areas of the game. Can’t go wrong with either one though.

    Maybe it’s Tim Hardaway Jr?

    Ooooh….that’s a good guess. I forgot that LT has been here for a while, so he did play with THJ in his first go-around.

    Did the Knicks pull off a sneaky 3-dimensional chess move, signing his arch nemesis THJ so Melo would be more willing to approve a trade?

    Nah. That would violate not just Dolan’s Razor, but Occam’s Razor.

    Maybe it’s Tim Hardaway Jr?

    Ooooh….that’s a good guess. I forgot that LT has been here for a while, so he did play with THJ in his first go-around.

    Thomas said it was last year so it couldn’t have been THJ. I’d guess it was KP- none of the other young guys seem cocky enough to challenge Melo. Plus I can’t imagine Melo actually getting excited about beating any of them besides KP.

    @11 “Too bad we still don’t have JR, he and Beasley could have been the Beavis and Butthead of the Knicks.”

    Yeah that would have been epic in a sick and twisted sort of way. “Beas, you hold him and I’ll untie his shoes! “

    The cynical side of me would say Chris Douglas-Roberts supposedly never lost a one on one either. Lavar Ball says he’s undefeated as well.

    That’s the tragedy/ conundrum of Melo. He is truly an icon. He’s a hall of famer. NBA players really do respect him. Young guys are in awe of him. He’s unstoppable one on one. He’s a decent human being by most accounts. Yet, in the end, I couldn’t wait to have him off the team.

    doesn’t it prove you are past your prime when your trash talk involves a sitcom from the 70’s? did he kick his ass and tell him that was the “facts of life”

    did he kick his ass and tell him that was the “facts of life”

    holy shit this is way better than yesterday’s av club of pedantry thread.

    ‘It’s your move’ rook, get ready for some ‘growing pains.’

    If you are not pleased with the discourse on the blog, please be welcome to change it to what you wish – but let’s not start a thing unless it’s actually funny, lest stratomatic will rain wrath, and become despondant once again

    It had to have been Noah, if only because watching him play one on one would be an . . . interesting game.

    It had to be KP- Thomas said it was in L.A. last year so that was probably their first visit there early in the season when KP was balling. Then Melo beat him one on one, shattered his confidence causing his play to go downhill, and ruined the season for the Knicks. Thanks Melo!

    But Phil wasn’t going to make the deal Perry made. In fact, he was trying to do something ten times worse by buying Melo out. Not even to mention the fact that he was all in on resigning Derrick Rose. Sorry, I’ve defended Phil many times, but shitting on the current GM to make his mistakes look brighter isn’t right.

    1. We have no idea what Phil would have done. The media was proven to be been consistently wrong and biased in its coverage of Phil.

    Did you hear Melo say it was time for him to move on try to win because he had put money first previously?

    Do you remember how Phil was crucified for saying the same exact thing – which of course was exactly what every person with a functioning brain already knew and would have recommended to him anyway.

    2. I am not shitting on Perry. He hasn’t done much yet. I am giving credit to Phil for righting the ship because that’s who actually did it.

    The Knicks were the worst defensive rebounding team in the NBA last year, and were 26th in the league in defensive TOV%.

    I think the defensive TOV% was a critical part of the problem on defense.

    Each TO you create is probably worth more than 1 point a game. One, you take away a possession. Two, you usually get a better shot than you would on the typical possession. If we improve THAT area alone both the offense and defense will be better, but especially the defense.

    I am not shitting on Perry. He hasn’t done much yet

    Also untrue. He’s already cleaned up Phil’s mess, you know, the one he made with signing Melo to a NTC and then getting into a public pissing contest with him to waive it.

    @28

    For all his warts, personality quirks, and mistakes, Phil turned the ship around and got fired for it before we started sailing.

    Did you even bother reading what I said or are you just another Phil hater than can’t admit that he left the team with a bunch of talented young players with upside, all our picks, and cap space?

    It’s hard to be more critical than I was without being an idiot about it. I criticized both his personality and many of his moves. But I’m not the kind of guy that is so blinded by cognitive bias that if some guy doctor fixes my back problem I’m going to say he still sucks because he wasn’t perfect.

    Daryl Morey was stupid enough to sign Ryan Anderson (who was never very good to begin with and who was declining) to his contract and cost himself a chance to make any number of deals because no one else is the league is dumb enough to take it now. But he’s still one of the best GMs in the NBA.

    We have no idea what Phil would have done with Melo because no one on earth knows what his thinking was except Phil and Melo. All we know is that both Phil and Melo wanted to move on. Both have said that much.

    Assuming the worst is exactly the kind of bias I am talking about.

    You start with the narrative (Phil sucks) and then spin the story of what he would have done to fit what you already believe or want to believe instead of what we actually know.

    Phil did not do a great job, but he left the team in massively better shape than it’s been since we traded for Melo to begin with. Is that so hard to admit? For many apparently yes.

    I’m new here but I just can’t understand the hatred against the guy who brought us KP, Willy and Frank and got us up to par on our draft choices. Sure he was a bit of a dick but what genius isn’t?

    No ship has been righted when Noah is on the team with a 4yr-72m contract.

    I agree that we have an issue with Noah. Now we have an even worse surplus of bigs that can’t be traded because of Kanter. So we are probably going to wind up trading a player like KOQ who is an underrated and useful player that we might be able to resign for an another attractive contract given the market for traditional bigs is so bad right now.

    Long term I don’t see either in our future because we are still so far away from contending, but I think a healthy Noah is the better all around player than Kanter.

    Kanter was/is literally unplayable at times because he’s so horrid on defense. He has essentially been among the bottom few Cs in the league.

    I’m new here but I just can’t understand the hatred against the guy who brought us KP, Willy and Frank and got us up to par on our draft choices. Sure he was a bit of a dick but what genius isn’t?

    At this point they probably all hate me too for being so contrarian, but I do it with a good heart. 🙂

    This forum is very anti Phil biased.

    Everyone suffers from biases, myself included. Once you get a conclusion in your head your brain will interpret/spin everything to reinforce that conclusion instead of viewing it objectively and slowly shifting your conclusion. I see it all the time. Now that I am hypersensitive to it, I am finally realizing how often it impacted me in the past. So I am trying to fight it.

    A good example is the Wins Produced folks. They are extremely bright, have a good model, and they believe it in with an almost religious fervor. But it produces some results that seem so wrong, no one takes them seriously. Rather that going back to the drawing board and tweaking the usage/efficiency portion of the model, they remain in denial about it and try to rationalize and spin their way to it actually being right. That’s cognitive bias.

    Man people here are really abusing the word “credit” today.

    I am giving credit to Phil for righting the ship because that’s who actually did it.

    Phil himself after he left said he was trying to figure out why he failed as POBO, why his “win now” moves went so wrong. The only reason we are in decent shape is because those moves failed so miserably that we got a high draft pick. I’m not sure he deserves “credit” for that. It’s like Columbus setting out to search for India and discovering America. We probably would have gotten a high picks if Phil had set a rebuild course from Day 1 and we wouldn’t have Noah’s and Lee’s contracts, we would have gotten some value for Lopez/Grant, we would have gotten at least 2 mid first picks for Melo, we would have used the cap on something other than Afflalo…and so forth.

    Also untrue. He’s already cleaned up Phil’s mess, you know, the one he made with signing Melo to a NTC and then getting into a public pissing contest with him to waive it.

    Mills halted trade talks before Perry arrived. Do you think Perry persuaded Melo to include Cavs and OKC? Not a chance. Mills and Dolan had probably already decided to wait it out (they deserve credit for that) and so did Melo’s camp. Perry is just a bit player here. If anything, the NYK front office deserves blame for folding just when their leverage was increasing.

    Not even to mention the fact that he was all in on resigning Derrick Rose.

    Nah it’s far more likely Phil was just keeping the option for a S&T open. I remember it was reported some team was interested in Rose but it would have had to have been through a S&T. That was responsible GMing by Phil; he deserves credit for that.

    @94 Then how do you explain a WS48 hovering around .200 for a relatively young guy?

    I think he’s a terrific rebounder and offensive player. Before I saw more of him I used to love him as a player.

    However, everyone sort of knows that all these models don’t measure individual defense very well. I can’t either. But there are times when you see a guy so lost so often, you sort of know he’s one of the special cases where the models aren’t getting it right. I usually look for other evidence. In Kanter’s case there’s evidence in defensive +/- that he’s really bad on defense. Not that I trust that model entirely either, but when his own coach got caught saying that he was unplayable because of his defense you just sort of know there’s a major problem there.

    Everyone suffers from biases, myself included. Once you get a conclusion in your head your brain will interpret/spin everything to reinforce that conclusion instead of viewing it objectively and slowly shifting your conclusion. I see it all the time. Now that I am hypersensitive to it, I am finally realizing how often it impacted me in the past. So I am trying to fight it.

    So everyone has biases, including you, but you’re not biased on whether the Phil criticisms are fair?

    K.

    Disagree that Perry is a bit player. Mills knew he was way out of his element so waited for us to get a competent GM to finish the job.

    If he wanted a yes man then Houston would have the job.

    Hornacek was saying at the end of last season that the one thing that was lacking more than anything else was toughness. Kanter seems to fill that bill fairly well and might be an asset just for that alone. Plus he has lost a lot of weight and looks totally ripped.

    How the hell is Kanter unplayable in any situation? You guys are really overstating how bad his defense is, and how much more important it is compared to what are legit great offensive numbers. He should get minutes just for his offensive rebounding, but he also brings .600 ts% with it.

    Also great to hear Sessions and Hornacek talk about Ntilikina in such light and specially that he’s getting close to Sessions and Noah. For all I hate Noah as a player right now I can’t think of a better dude to help him with the start of his career (while hopefully staying away from banned substances)

    Hey guys I’m new here, but what do you all think about trading for Cole Aldrich and Langston Galloway?

    Phil Jackson did not do a good job as the POBO. He just didn’t. His only redeeming quality as a GM was that he valued draft picks and that’s awesome, but Isiah Thomas was good at drafting too. Phil was a bad GM who wasn’t so dumb that he traded away his failsafe like an all-time bad GM in Billy King did. That doesn’t wipe away the Derrick Rose experiment and it doesn’t wipe away his public criticisms of players on his team. He basically created the circus atmosphere around the team with his public castration of players that he 100% assembled. Was he the worst thing to ever happen to the Knicks? No. He drafted KP, gave us Clarence Gaines Jr, and was so repulsive he made Melo want to leave town (when all he really had to do was tell him that he was going into full on rebuild mode and I’m sure Melo would have waived the clause and/or fell in line with the plan).

    Hey guys I’m new here, but what do you all think about trading for Cole Aldrich and Langston Galloway?

    What would you want from Thibs if the deal were Lee for Aldrich plus ???. My hope is the front office waited on trading Lee and KOQ until after the Melo deal because they could have been pieces in any Melo trade. Now that Melo’s gone, I’m a bit worried that the front office may not even want to trade Lee. Dotson, Baker, Frank should be getting all of Lee’s minutes. It’s better our youngins get that playing time and it also helps the tank this year.

    Some things that Phil Jackson, who was oh so dedicated to building through the draft, did:

    -Traded away an unprotected pick to dump Travis Outlaw
    -Preferred dumping JR Smith (who could’ve just been waived) to taking back a first rounder from the Cavs
    -Signed Derrick Williams and Arron Afflalo instead of getting a plethora of great picks from the Kings
    -Didn’t buy the 38 (McCaw), 54 (Felder), and 56 picks in 2016, and didn’t buy the 38 pick (Bell) in 2017

    With the money he saved from turning down all these picks, he signed luminaries like Joakim Noah and the aforementioned Afflalo/Williams dynamic duo.

    Feel free to give him credit for not trading away picks, but personally I don’t give my dog treats every time I come home and he didn’t shit all over the floor. The only reason those picks were at all valuable was because Phil failed so fucking hilariously badly at doing what he actually wanted to do (with the exception of Willy, which he deserves credit for).

    I don’t know why I bother to respond to this anymore–Strat is the most biased poster here when it comes to Phil, which makes it all the more ironic that he accuses everyone else of having some kind of blindspot. Phil was actually warmly received by the media AND on this board when he first arrived. He fell out of favor by making a bunch of idiotic basketball moves and then acting like a complete jackass to top the whole shit show off.

    What about Marbury for that squad?

    I am going to spend the next year not thinking about Phil or Melo at all and just savoring it.

    i wonder why rambis is still with the team?

    They’re leaving him in charge of the defense to ensure a strong tank.

    Feel free to give him credit for not trading away picks, but personally I don’t give my dog treats every time I come home and he didn’t shit all over the floor.

    Well put.

    It’s all about the Yankees for me right now Z-Man but I still pop in here every once in awhile and definitely will do so as we get closer to the start of the season. There’s only so much Phil and Melo stuff I could handle over the summer. I was a Melo fan and in some ways hate to see him leave under these circumstances but now that he and Phil are finally gone hopefully we can go back to just talking about basketball and future realistic scenarios especially since we have all our1st rd picks going forward which is nice.

    I’m curious about this upcoming season and how this team does, I think it will say alot about Hornacek and whether or not he should be the coach for the future. But right now my main focus are the Yankees, it’s really fun rooting for a team with so much young talent and knowing the best years are ahead but the present is pretty good too. Hopefully one day I can say the same about the Knicks but unfortunately I don’t see a Brian Cashman running their front office any time soon.

    What about Marbury for that squad?

    A glaring omission!

    how about the all-time Knicks chucklehead squad: Steph, JR, Metta, Beas, Oak? JYD? Andrea?

    @113

    Spree got to have a spot too right? Most of the weirdest stuff he did was outside the Knicks, but getting injured trying to punch a guy at a party on your own yatch should be enough.

    Hugh Hefner dead at 91.

    The one man about whom you can’t say: “He’s in a better place now”

    Apologies if I came off like an ass there Pt – but if that is all you got from the thread the other day, I feel a bit sorry for you. Plenty of cultural landmarks there to keep an open mind full with…

    but if that is all you got from the thread the other day, I feel a bit sorry for you. Plenty of cultural landmarks there to keep an open mind full with…

    appreciate the get well card poster-i’m-not-familiar-with, but in lieu of flowers send point guards. and if you’re a knick fan you should know it’s profoundly possible to hate the player and love the game. reginald cousins is my lord and savior, and i’ve been in that very conversation many dozens of times. but i like mine with more alcohol and a lot less supercilious pretension. the fucking irony of saying supercilious pretension on a hoops message board, right?

    It wasn’t a get well card, far from it. I was just acknowledging that I may have come off like a dick. I’m sure you don’t need me to feel good about your day…that’s what alcohol and sarcasm is for, i reckon.

    I guess one mans pretension is another mans culture, go figure. Whatever makes you feel good my friend!

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