Knicks Morning News (2017.09.26)

  • [ESPN] Porzingis wants to leave Knicks’ issues ‘in past’
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 5:24:35 PM)

    Porzingis wants to leave Knicks’ issues ‘in past’

  • [ESPN] It’s official: Melo trade to Thunder announced
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 11:36:33 AM)

    It’s official: Melo trade to Thunder announced

  • [NYTimes] At N.B.A. Media Days, Players and Coaches Take Aim at President Trump
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 11:04:06 PM)

    LeBron James weighed in again, as he did on Saturday, when he referred to Trump as a “bum.” Toronto’s DeMar DeRozan compared Trump to a “12-year-old.”

  • [NYTimes] Carmelo Anthony: No N.B.A. Title, but Lots of Olympic Gold
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 11:32:53 AM)

    In Rio de Janeiro last year, Anthony, a cornerstone of the American team, earned his third Olympic championship.

  • [NYDN] Knicks can exhale without Melo, Phil Jackson at Media Day
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 4:56:18 PM)

    Stepping to the microphone for the first time as the franchise player, Kristaps Porzingis promptly offered perfect symbolism.

  • [NYDN] Joakim Noah has the solution to fixing America’s current mess
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 2:23:26 PM)

    Joakim Noah, a noted pacifist and critic of Donald Trump, has a two-step plan to get this country back on track.

  • [NYDN] Money and belief kept Carmelo in New York, left to win
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 1:55:09 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony called his relationship with New York as “love at first sight,” but he said money was part of why he stuck around.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony says ‘hardest goodbye’ to Knicks, NYC in letter
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 8:04:01 AM)

    In a personal letter to New York, Carmelo Anthony called leaving the city that helped him become who he is today ‘the hardest goodbye.’

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony deal works for team and Melo, says Knicks prez
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 7:19:54 AM)

    The Carmelo Anthony deal is official.

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah knows this whole season is about redemption
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 8:04:24 PM)

    Joakim Noah’s first year as a Knick was beyond nightmarish, starting the first few days of training camp when he protested the club being at West Point because of his anti-war, anti-gun stances. Noah got a public rebuke from West Point officials and it only got worse as he turned into a $72 million, drug-addled…

  • [NYPost] Knicks front office would rather not focus on the past
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 7:26:27 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony is gone, but the Knicks have been left with an abundance of centers following the trade with Oklahoma City that became official Monday. Center Enes Kanter, one of the prolific bench scorers in the NBA last season, is a Knick, joining presumed starter Willy Hernangomez. And then there’s the $72 million man, veteran…

  • [NYPost] Thunder knew Carmelo Anthony deal was too good to pass up
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 4:54:27 PM)

    OKLAHOMA CITY — Sam Presti doesn’t yet know whether he has built a legitimate championship contender, but the Thunder general manager wasn’t to going to pass on a chance to put his team in the conversation. When Carmelo Anthony became available, Presti only saw one avenue: A deal must get done. “It was an incredible…

  • [NYPost] 9 NBA storylines to distract from Warriors’ supremacy
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 4:02:36 PM)

    The lying began in earnest Monday. That’s when 28 teams conducted media day, the unofficial start to the NBA season. Everyone was perky, upbeat and vowed upgrades. Everyone liked the look of the assembled team, which has a chance to win a title. They were lying. “It’s not uncommon this time of year, everyone’s optimistic,”…

  • [NYPost] New, thrilled Knick ‘punched myself’ to check if trade is real
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 1:54:09 PM)

    Enes Kanter admitted he had to contain his glee Saturday, when his manager told him via cellphone he had been traded to the Knicks. The Knicks’ new 25-year-old center from Turkey was in the middle of a kids camp for orphans in Oklahoma City when his manager, Hilmi Cinar, called him, and he reluctantly halted…

  • [NYPost] These feel like brand-new Knicks — which is good, unless it’s not
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 1:24:29 PM)

    Perhaps it was just a coincidence, but there wasn’t a cloud in the sky above the Knicks’ practice facility in Westchester County on Monday afternoon. There was a soft breeze blowing, and a bright sun left over from summer. There probably haven’t been five nicer days all year. Coincidence? Probably. Still, on the First Day…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony relieved as Knicks ‘roller coaster’ ends
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 12:01:14 PM)

    OKLAHOMA CITY — Carmelo Anthony wasn’t just the face of the Knicks. For the better part of six years, he was perceived to be the biggest reason for every underachieving season. Once seen as a savior, the superstar was often labeled as a scapegoat; a player who could raise his game on any night, yet…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis ready for fresh start in every way
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 10:27:47 AM)

    What exit meeting? Kristaps Porzingis said he is willing to “leave in the past’’ any bad blood, declined to go into why he blew off his April meetings with Knicks brass and denied his relationship with coach Jeff Hornacek went sour last season. The 7-foot-3 Latvian claimed he has moved on as he becomes the…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony says goodbye to New York
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 8:29:20 AM)

    Go Me7o. Carmelo Anthony is gone and said his goodbye to New York on Monday, when the Knicks and Thunder officially announced the trade that ends his up-and-down-and-further-down, seven-year tenure with the team. Anthony, who arrived in Oklahoma City on Sunday, wrote a farewell addressed to “NEW YORK,” thanking the city in which he was…

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Knicks look to move on without Melo
    (Tuesday, September 26, 2017 1:29:44 AM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Enes Kanter likens trade to Knicks as a “dream”
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 6:00:03 PM)

    After Enes Kanter found out he had been traded to the Knicks as part of the Carmelo Anthony deal, he woke up in the middle of the night and reminded himself what had just happened.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks still talking playoffs, even without Carmelo Anthony
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 4:00:16 PM)

    The Knicks are adjusting to a new reality and getting used to life in the post-Carmelo Anthony Era.

  • [SNY Knicks] Melo talks trade, feels “wanted and appreciated” in Oklahoma City
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 2:51:38 PM)

    “It happened so quickly, I had to make a quick decision,” Anthony said. … “This was a team, organization, and city” he had no problem coming to and being a part of.

  • [SNY Knicks] Frank Ntilikina says he’s a high-IQ player, will use disrespect as motivation
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 1:00:38 PM)

    Knicks rookie PG Frank Ntilikina cited his high basketball-IQ as one of his strengths while speaking during media day on Monday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Mills, Perry say executing Melo trade made sense for Knicks
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 12:12:16 PM)

    Knicks president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry discussed the Carmelo Anthony trade during media day on Monday, noting that it made sense basketball-wise.

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony pens farewell to New York
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 11:30:39 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony, whose trade to the Okahoma City Thunder was announced on Monday, penned a farewell letter to New York, the Knicks organization, and fans.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks announce Carmelo Anthony trade to Oklahoma City Thunder
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 10:50:08 AM)

    The Knicks officially announced the trade involving Carmelo Anthony to the Thunder for Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and a 2018 second-round pick.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks waive PG Chasson Randle
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 11:32:46 AM)

    The Knicks have waived PG Chasson Randle, the team announced Monday.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony happy to put drama behind him and start fresh in Oklahoma City
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 8:07:27 PM)

    OKLAHOMA CITY — Carmelo Anthony sat at the table wearing a gray hoodie and a white jersey with his trademark No. 7 highlighted in blue and orange over his long-sleeve selection.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis excited to be Knicks’ leader
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 8:04:25 PM)

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony trade official as Knicks start anew
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 6:23:00 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Carmelo Anthony is normally the Knicks’ main attraction on Media Day and most days for that matter. But for the first time in seven years, Anthony wasn’t sitting in front of a throng of reporters talking about trying to lead the Knicks into the playoffs.

  • [NY Newsday] Joakim Noah wants to prove his worth to Knicks and himself
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 5:46:00 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. – Joakim Noah wants to redeem himself and prove he was worth the $72 million former Knicks president Phil Jackson paid him last summer.

  • [NY Newsday] How Russell Westbrook influenced new Knicks center Enes Kanter
    (Monday, September 25, 2017 5:44:00 PM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Enes Kanter was caught off guard by his trade to the Knicks. He was conducting a basketball clinic for orphaned children in Oklahoma City on Saturday when his phone rang. His friend picked it up and told Kanter it was “urgent.”

  • 119 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.09.26)”

    I have no idea why there is any talk whatsoever about trading Willy Hernangomez. I mean obviously there’s a price for everything, but our asking price for Willy should be so fucking comically sky high that no one touches it. He is exactly the kind of player we should be enamored to have–young, productive, and cheap.

    Sure, there are some questions as to his fit with Porzingis, but how about we find out if Porzingis is actually good or not before we trade Willy away to accommodate him (which, by the way, I think he’d be pretty pissed about)? There’s a very good chance that Willy is the best young player on this team, and that doesn’t even say anything particularly bad about the other young players! Willy is really good!

    @1- agreed. There are other chips. It’s time to collect young chips. Trade older players for picks or young kids that have a chance to improve. O’Quinn, Lee and Thomas come to mind. I wouldn’t trade for anybody over 25 years old.

    The only possible scenario in which you trade Willy is if Kanter turns into a guy who can play league average defense AND you get a very strong asset. Even then, Kanter would have to be resigned for big money and Willy is the more versatile player because of his passing ability.

    There’s no issue putting Kanter in the OKC role where he’s the first C off the bench, splitting time with KP and Willy. I don’t see why this is hard. You just have to move KOQ and nail Noah to the bench. It’s really that simple. And ignore fit with KP–he’s not even ready to play C full time and you don’t make a successful basketball team by cutting off your right arm so your left arm can get more work. You keep both (so long as they’re both productive) and figure it out.

    If a team offered the #7 pick in 2018 draft for Willy, I would decline. The draft is too much of a crap shoot. Do we really want to give up a young guy who played well in his rookie season and who is not a head case for the real possibility of drafting Mudiay, Okafor, Hezonja, Winslow, etc…?? And I’m not sure why some people think Willy is a poor defender? Is it because he’s not a rim protector? WHG had a positive DBPM and positive DRPM in his first season and someone posted he was #1 defender in that Euro competition. I’d even be happy if Willy were to top out as a solid WS/48 .140. Just give me a bunch of above average 2-way players and I’ll be a happy camper.

    I hope KP, Willy, and Kanter get all of the 4-5 position minutes. That might be possible since Phil signed Noah so maybe front office will not be so wedded to playing him as Phil might have been. Kanter will be interesting. It looks like all 3 of Willy, KP and Kanter could have some nice range on their outside shooting which would open up all kinds of possibilities for pairings of the 3 of them. KOQ lost weight and thrived. Will Kanter’s reduced weight affect his offense? How much of his poor defense is due to poor mobility versus lack of spatial awareness and reaction time like Amare? If he improves, is this just an artificial contract year bump?

    If Kanter improves enough on D and the 3 are all productive together, I wouldn’t be opposed to re-signing him. I liked Denver’s signing of Plumlee. Just sign good young players even if you have to overpay a bit. They could be traded later and in any case it’s better than relying on free agency. The chief benefit of the Timmy signing is that it could have been worse and it at least puts a financial chastity belt on our front office so we avoid more Baker-like contracts and faux stars. The only positive about Dolan is that the luxury tax is chump change to him.

    If he improves, is this just an artificial contract year bump?

    Most of the statistical evidence indicates that the “contract year” phenomenon is actually illusory and that there’s no statistically significant difference in production between a contract year and a non contract year. So if Kanter improves significantly, it’s reasonable to assume it’s because he’s improved in a non-transient way, not just because he’s trying harder due to the short-term contract incentive (unless it’s predicated on outlier production, ex. if he suddenly starts shooting 3’s at a 36% clip or has a 70 TS%. Then that might be suspicious/unsustainable.)

    I agree that I don’t think the assessment of Willy as a poor defender is fair–a huge part of defense is defensive rebounding, and Willy is an absolutely hellacious rebounder. I think the eye test has treated him unfairly because he seems lost in the pick and roll, but most centers in the league outside of the Goberts, KPs, and Draymonds of the world simply can’t keep up with the speed of the modern PnR anyway. Either way, the stats indicate that he was at least a slightly below average defender, if not an average one.

    @5

    Willy also had to defend the pick and roll with Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings as the perimeter defenders. A better defensive center would have played those situations better, but it’s not like he was a sore spot in an otherwise solid defense, like Kanter was. The defense was a mess from start to finish.

    There are 96 minutes available at PF and C.

    Porzingis: 33 (same as last year)
    Kanter: 21 (same as last year)
    Willy: 18 (same as last year)
    Noah: 11 (Half of last year’s total. It’s unrealistic to think the team is not going to play him. He’s a vocal leader and highly paid. Those guys play in the NBA. He could well play more than 11 mpg)
    KOQ: 12 (less than last year)
    Lance: 3 (Any time the team goes small, Lance/McBuckets/Beasley will be at PF)
    McBuckets: 3
    Beasley: 3
    Kornet: 2

    Total: 106

    You’re now 10 mpg over the maximum allowable minutes for those two positions. That’s assuming no rise in playing time for Porzingis or Willy. It’s also assuming that we play big nearly all the time, with Zing, Kanter, or KOQ at PF.

    If Joakim Noah gets minutes at the expense of anyone who might be part of the future OR part of a trade, that will suck.

    Noah will most definitely get minutes and frankly, if he’s healthy, he should. He brings something to the table that our other bigs don’t…mainly defense and rebounding.

    We just need 10 useful minutes from him a night off the bench.

    The move to make is to trade KQ and Lee, either together or separately for an expiring contract or two and a draft pick. There’s gotta be a team out there with one big expiring contract and a late first rounder that could use a decent SG and a decent back up big.

    Or trade them for a wing player or a PG.

    @11 Or should we just stretch Noah? Kanter and Willy both need about 24 minutes, O’Quinn about 18 minutes so there’s no use for Noah. Or is there an overpriced defensive style small forward out there who we could swap him for?

    Oh btw Noah’s defense was horrible last year. He was still defending drives to the basket after the points were rung up on the scoreboard. Sloooow.

    @13 – Agree it makes s nose to trade KOQ and/or Lee as they have some value and don’t fit the current timetable of the rebuild that is obviously under way.

    Maybe they can bring back a late first round pick as you suggest or even a Second Round pick which apparently is even more valuable.

    Noah is completely untradable and irrelevant to the team’s future. It is theoretically possible he could help them win some games this year, but so what?

    I know everyone else is in tank mode. I fully understand the thinking. But the east is so horrible this year I think this team (even after the Melo trade) has an outside shot to make the playoffs. Playoff experience is very valuable to a young team. If we look good enough to contend for 8th seed or better, I’d WAY rather get that playoff spot than finish with 30 wins again and not get one of the elite picks. I just can’t see us being so bad that we are a top 5 pick this year unless all our young players have bust years. If we are that bad, that means KP is not that good.

    Noah is the biggest non fitting piece at this point, but we’re going to be stuck holding the bag on that one. The trade has to be KOQ and Lee going out hopefully getting a pick and an expiring contact or two.

    If we can shift Kanter for something useful that doesn’t involve worse contracts that’d be great. Doesn’t seem like other teams are into him though. If he doesn’t improve defensively he’ll probably opt in as he won’t get as much in a new contract. We should definitely play him if there’s any indication of improvement, try and generate interest. We’re not going to stretch Noah unless he completely breaks down and even then it’s doubtful. Getting Kanter off the books a year early would be helpful. I’d rather have KOQ as a 4 mil backup than Kanter as an 18 mil backup.

    Minnesota won 31 games last year with Karl Anthony Towns racking up a .201 WS48. They were the #10 offense, #27 defense. It’s not that hard to imagine that the Knicks could be worse than that– something like the #15 offense, #27 defense– despite strong play from an improved Porzingis.

    KOQ has been on the trade block before without any interest. We’d probably only get a second rounder for him and since he’s already a good result for a second round pick I don’t really see the point in rolling that particular die.

    I forget why, but I think it makes much more sense for us to waive and stretch Noah after this season.

    I will not stand for this Kyle-bashing! He was pretty good last year – maybe even our best player. He protects the rim (about as many blocks as KP), moves the ball around and gets down the floor. He’s not the best positional defender, but he’s way better than Kanter. Yes, he’s 27, and should probably go to a contender at this point, but he should definitely see minutes this year 1. because he’s good, and 2. to showcase him. Noah, on the other hand, is untradable. I hope he plays well just for his own mental state, but playing him over our young guys does nothing.

    Minnesota won 31 games last year with Karl Anthony Towns racking up a .201 WS48. They were the #10 offense, #27 defense. It’s not that hard to imagine that the Knicks could be worse than that– something like the #15 offense, #27 defense– despite strong play from an improved Porzingis.

    The T-Wolves were in the west and the Knicks are in a totally decimated east.

    What has really changed since last year when we won 31 games?

    We lost Melo, Rose/Jennings, Holiday and gained Hardaway, Beasley, Sessions/Jack, and Kanter. That may not be a huge net loss depending on how healthy Sessions and Jack are and how Beasley plays.

    We added Frank and Dotson as wildcards that could be a net plus.

    We are expecting improvement from KP and WH and could have a healthy Lance Thomas to help on defense.

    I’m having a tough time seeing us as being much worse as a team than last year and we are in a weaker conference now than last year. I agree 1000% that the defense looks like it could be a disaster, but getting rid of Melo and Rose doesn’t seem to be a major issue for that part of the formula. I still think we are probably better than 31 games, but lets see what other moves get made.

    @ 22 – it makes sense bc when you stretch someone it goes against the cap. So if we suffer one more year of Noah then its 18 million less to stretch.

    I think the really smart move would be to wait 2 seasons. Then you’d have I think one year left and you could stretch that over 3 or 4 years, so the cap hit would not be too bad at all.

    I think the best way to look at this season is let the chips (or pick) fall where they may. We could surprise people in a weak eastern conference. We got young pieces and picks going forward. If we win the same amount of games as last year or are for some reason better and make the playoffs, so be it. There’s always a chance we could trade up on draft night to get a higher pick if we are stuck with a late lottery pick.

    Oak….When you factor in the fact that even healthy players miss about 5 games a year, plus Noah will be lucky to play 50, it’s easier to distribute the minutes. Plus NBA teams average 5 OT games a year, so there’s 50 more minutes. Over the course of a season, you can get KP to 33, Kanter to 18, Willie to 24, Noah to 20, and still have 13 mins / game left for OQ. There’s no reason anyone else should play the 4 or the 5.

    Part of the issue is a lot of those minutes, as marv would say, will be garbage time

    Oak….When you factor in the fact that even healthy players miss about 5 games a year, plus Noah will be lucky to play 50, it’s easier to distribute the minutes.

    That’s a fair point. Guys missing games will allow us to bump up the minutes slightly for everyone else. Although keep in mind, my predicted minutes distribution only had Noah playing 11 mpg, so even if he misses time, you’re not gaining much flexibility.

    I disagree that no one but our big men should play the 4. Hornacek wants to play a faster pace, and so do I. That means running McDermott/Lance/Beas out there at PF for 10-20 mpg. The roster imbalance will force Horny to minimize that lineup, but I don’t see him scrapping it entirely. Nor should he. Pace and space is the future of the league.

    Phil tried to package KOQ and Jennings together for a late 1st rounder last year, and no one bit. There’s no reason to think that a package of KOQ and Lee is going fetch a 1st rounder today.

    Lee is better than Jennings, and he could truly help a contender (he’d be great in a JR Smith role), but he’s also 32 and has 3 more years at over $12m per.

    Maybe the Cavs would offer Shump, Frye, and Felder for the Lee/KOQ package. Or the Wiz would offer Jason Smith, Satoransky, Meeks, and a 2nd rounder. Or the Clips would offer Rivers and Wes Johnson.

    Those are the kind of deals we might be looking at. Getting back unimpressive players whose deals expire in 1 or 2 years.

    I say the team should go for broke and try to find a package that nets them Manimal or MKG without moving Willy. Though I’m not enamored with paying 2 Centers 17m a year, I am intrigued by the idea of hanging on to Kanter because he defends PF’s better and may fit as a starter with KP better. But, if Willy comes out and plays like he played this summer, then Kanter sits and should probably get traded. Not saying Kanter makes Willy expendable, just that it may make more sense for him to start over Willy this season.

    Side note:
    You know what I find funny? Enes Kanter is now our highest paid player per year. ENES KANTER!

    I keep banging the drum for a New Orleans trade, and I’ll do it again. The best Lee/KOQ trade would be to send them to New Orleans for Asik, Ajinca, and a Top 5 protected 2019 pick.

    We would immediately waive Ajinca. He and Asik would count $16m against the cap next year, but Ajinca expires in 2019 and Asik only has $3m guaranteed in 2019-20.

    If you agree that it’s fine to tank this year, all we would be giving up is Lee’s production at age 33 and 34, and the roster spot for Asik (who would never see 1 second of court time). In exchange we get what is likely to be a pick in the 7-13 range in 2019.

    The Pelicans get a great shooter and a solid backup big to fill major holes in their roster. It’s a win-win.

    I like the Pelicans idea. Pretty sure their GM Demps is on the hot seat in a big way this year and that roster is still a total mess. They’re a good candidate to do something dumb to try to compete and maybe we could be on the other side of that for once

    @31

    I definitely hope Perry is at least offering those dudes to NO, they at badly managed and in desperate need of depth, it’s the ideal trade partner. The only issue I see is that they’re looking for a more traditional SF, as they intend to give big minutes to Rondo and Holiday together in the backcourt (why, I have no idea, but…)

    Michael Beasley wearing 3 watches (one on each wrist, one on his ankle) and you’re all in here talking about who should start at the 4

    No thank you to a #15 pick and being swept in the 1st round.

    I hope we secure a top pick and am happy to see the Knicks suck as much as possible in order to achieve that. It would be a bummer if Willy, KP, and Frank don’t progress nicely but otherwise TANK!!

    Also Philly, Miami, and Charlotte should easily be better than us to take the 6, 7, and 8 seeds in the playoffs.

    #Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek said rookie PG Frank Ntilikina is getting better and better every day. Hornacek loves Frank’s wingspan.— @kc1nyk (@kylecohenNBA) September 24, 2017

    Jeff Hornacek: "With [Frank Ntilikina], we really like what we're seeing in these pickup games."— U bum (@Krisplashed) September 22, 2017

    I definitely hope Perry is at least offering those dudes to NO, they at badly managed and in desperate need of depth, it’s the ideal trade partner. The only issue I see is that they’re looking for a more traditional SF, as they intend to give big minutes to Rondo and Holiday together in the backcourt (why, I have no idea, but…)

    Alvin Gentry could start KOQ and have Boogie come off the bench to smash the second stringers.

    #Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek said rookie PG Frank Ntilikina is getting better and better every day. Hornacek loves Frank’s wingspan.— @kc1nyk (@kylecohenNBA) September 24, 2017

    Well, if his coach says a couple of nice things about him on his 2nd day of camp, then we should have nothing to worry about. 🙂

    Beasley seems like one of those guys who surfs the fine line between eccentricity and idiocy. Or does he?

    In the proposed NO trade, why are they getting top 5 protection? They’re getting 2 useful players and unloading Asik. I realize that it is unlikely to be a top 5 pick, but why even risk that happening?

    Wade going to Cleveland probably results in them being uninterested in Lee.

    Well, if his coach says a couple of nice things about him on his 2nd day of camp, then we should have nothing to worry about. 🙂

    Are you doubting The Frenchise?

    There’s no reason to think that a package of KOQ and Lee is going fetch a 1st rounder today.

    I dunno, he’s signed to the greatest contract in the NBA, so teams will surely eventually be breaking down the Knicks’ door to pay him $35 million for his Age 32-34 seasons. Decent players get better when they’re 32-34, right?

    Beasley’s 11% interview is Peak Television, on the order of Mad Men or The Sopranos

    Beasley’s 11% interview is Peak Television, on the order of Mad Men or The Sopranos

    You did not include The Wire so therefore your entire analysis is irrelevant.

    Beasley seems like one of those guys who surfs the fine line between eccentricity and idiocy. Or does he?

    Surfs? I’d say drowns, but as long as he is coachable and plays hard, i’m fine with it.

    No thank you to a #15 pick and being swept in the 1st round.

    So I take it you’d prefer no playoff experience and the 13th pick?

    @45

    I actually think The Wire is slightly overrated and only in the second tier of great television. I know that’s a minority opinion, but that’s how I feel.

    @49

    If Willy is 7’0 that’s awesome.

    let Lee accumulate some stats on our shitty team then deal him at the deadline when somebody’s 2 guard blows out a knee.

    @49

    Unless the measurement in Euroleague is a lot laxer than it is in the NBA, this is a really freakish occurrence. Its very rare but possible for a man to grow a little between 21 and 25 years of age. But that little growth spurt is a pretty big deal for Willy as it increases his length and therefore his ceiling as a an offensive finisher and shot blocker.

    I actually think The Wire is slightly overrated and only in the second tier of great television. I know that’s a minority opinion, but that’s how I feel.

    Ranking The Wire beneath Mad Men is like placing Kobe ahead of MJ. SMH.

    I actually think The Wire is slightly overrated and only in the second tier of great television. I know that’s a minority opinion, but that’s how I feel.

    ……………………….

    This Beasley interview… yes.

    A doctor. Has. To learn. Something. And everything a doctor learns is man-written. And everything a doctor’s learned is man-written. So, you can sit there and tell me you learned it, and yes I agree with you, I agree with you 100 percent. But it was a word that somebody else concocted—

    Did anyone else watch Frank’s media day press conference? Really impressive. Seems like a good character guy. I would rate is media performance up there with KP’s post draft interviews before the weight of the franchise crushed his spirits ha ha

    I’m with Silky, the Wire was pretty good but by the end I was just looking at the summary for each episode online. I put the Sopranos and Breaking Bad above it.

    JR Smith is still the best. Yesterday someone asked him about LeBron during this past summer and JR said he was being a jerk cause he would call JR at 6am to work out and when LeBron would ask him what he was doing JR would tell him obviously sleeping.

    The Bease could be our Yogi Berra:

    “My career is getting late earlier these days”
    “Basketball is 90% mental and the other half is physical”
    “Nobody goes to Knick games any more. It’s too crowded “

    Whoa whoa…the Wire is a top 3 American show of all time. Sopranos sure as fuck is not in the class. The 2-3 seasons were absurd and not good.

    “Because if you’re only using 10 percent of your brain you don’t even know that you’re using 10 percent of your brain.” – Michael Beasley

    MIND BLOWN

    WELL, 10% OF MY MIND, AT LEAST

    The Wire’s fifth season was not as enjoyable to me than the others, but it’s still the GOAT to me because of everything else.

    My students used to joke that if they took 3 semesters of my class they would have watched the entire series, due to how much I used it to talk about urban violence and the US.

    The Wire, The Sopranos and Breaking Bad are the three best television shows ever. Put them in whatever order you like, but those three are the top dogs.

    A doctor. Has. To learn. Something. And everything a doctor learns is man-written. And everything a doctor’s learned is man-written. So, you can sit there and tell me you learned it, and yes I agree with you, I agree with you 100 percent. But it was a word that somebody else concocted—

    Who knew Beasley was a poststructuralist? Wow.

    Season Five of The Wire was the weakest season, but the way the show ended, with Michael becoming the new Omar and Dukie becoming the new Bubbles, was maybe the most poignant moment in TV history. You can’t help but look and nod and say, “yup, that’s how these cycles get perpetuated.” It was an incredibly sad but satisfying ending, an incredible KO punch to end the series.

    The season of Breaking Bad with Krysten Rytter and the air traffic controller dad and the teddy bear and the swimming pool had a pretty far-fetched and unsatisfying ending, and the very end of Breaking Bad’s last season felt not so much like an epiphany but a tying up of loose ends.

    The Wire is the greatest cultural contribution American popular culture has given the twenty-first century. It is absurd that anyone would rank it as anything less. By degree of difficult alone, its sweeping depiction of an American post-industrial city racked by the War on Drugs, deindustrialization, urban blight, institutional corruption, political graft, and crass capitalist exploitation surpasses every other cliche show centered around a white heterosexual male anti-hero like Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and Mad Men. Like seriously, I question not only the artistic taste but intellectual capacity of anyone who seriously misses how truly awe-inspiringly great that show was and continues to be the same I question the taste and intelligence of people who tell me Lebron is better than MJ, Floyd Mayweather is the P4P greatest boxer over Sugar Ray Robinson, and those who say Tom Brady was better than Joe Montana.

    Some people get turned off by early episodes of The Wire when it was still finding its footing. The sense of humor is a little awkward in the first few episodes, and before you really dive in it seems like a by-the-numbers police procedural. It’s a more patiently plotted and deliberate show than The Sopranos and Breaking Bad, and I can see why some people have a hard time getting into it. I’ve tried to get my dad into The Wire several times and he just doesn’t have the attention span.

    I would personally rank it #1 over the other two. I’ve watched it end-to-end four times.

    I question not only the artistic taste but intellectual capacity of anyone who seriously misses how truly awe-inspiringly great that show

    I definitely appreciate the writing and cultural infuence in the show(first season was amazing) but personally enjoyed BB and the Sopranos more. Maybe its because I saw the other’s first but that’s just how I feel

    Yeah, The Wire is harder to get into because the first season seemingly starts so slow. Many of my friends have tried it after I nagged them incessantly about it and most have given up in the early first season.

    It’s a shame, because most of its core is the best show I’ve ever watched. My only complaint really is the McNulty arc in the fifth season, which I hated with a burning passion, and everything else is just amazing.

    On the other hand, I’ve tried many times to get into Breaking Bad and as much as I recognize it as a great show, it’s just not for me. The only shows I constantly rewatch are The Wire and Archer, which is incredibly underrated because it’s animated.

    I think Breaking Bad is only very good and I thought the ending betrayed all of the shows themes that it was building to. I like The Sopranos and Mad Men more because they’re far more formally interesting than The Wire ever was, and just as deep, thematically. It’s a matter of preference when you get to the most elite art works of every form–I don’t fault anyone for liking Tolstoy more than Doestoevsky even though I find Doestoevsky far more interesting precisely because he isn’t a realist in the sense that Tolstoy is. Ditto for The Wire.

    Im also of the opinion that The Sopranos and Mad Men had no bad seasons, whereas The Wire’s fifth season really wasn’t that good. Fantastic ending, though. Also I think The Sopranos, in terms of influence on television, is unparalleled. Every other prestige television show that’s come after has taken immense inspiration from it in the way that even The Wire can’t live up to.

    I was referring to the LAST 2-3 seasons of the Sopranos. They were hot garbage.

    The last season of the Wire wasn’t as good as 1-4, but similarly to season 2 which I didn’t really dig at first watch it is still pretty good besides the fake serial killer angle

    Also, there’s a huge personal investment in The Sopranos for me–as an Italian American Long Islander, I pretty much grew up in that milieu, except I was much poorer than the Soprano family. But I identify very deeply with it, in all aspects.

    @74

    I totally forgot Deadwood that show is definitely in my top 5. Al Swearingen might be the best character in any tv drama ever.

    Long live Ian Mcshane

    Acting wise I felt that BB was a clear notch ahead of the others when the plot was somewhat lackluster. Cranston, Paul and Esposito really carried the show at times.

    Omar is still the GOAT character tho.

    Way too much time in season 5 of The Wire was spent on the uninteresting Scott Templeton character. The McNulty storyline was also regrettable. But apart from those two storylines, it was a fine season. Lots of great stuff with Marlo, Chris, Snoop, Lester, Bubbles, Carcetti, Omar, Michael, Dukie and others.

    I think one of the things that makes Deadwood superior to those other shows is that it ran only 3 seasons.

    “Deadwood is what you get when they replace Tina Cervasio with Rebecca Haarlow”

    The Bease

    I like The Sopranos and Mad Men more because they’re far more formally interesting than The Wire ever was, and just as deep, thematically.

    As someone who’s seen each series multiple times, I seriously disagree. Mad Men was a myopic show which viewed the 1960s through the lens of an affluent white-collar Caucasians in a city teaming with working-class and people of color. If Mad Men were even half as expansive in its thematic explorations of 1960s America as the Wire was in its thematic explorations of Baltimore city during the aughties, Matthew Weiner would have examined the ad agency of Sterling Cooper Draper and Price its entirety with as much attention paid to its secretaries, janitors, repairmen, and doormen as it did its advertising executives. Every time I watched Mad Men ruminate on whatever existential life crisis Don Draper was experiencing that particular week I was reminded of this passage of Bertolt Brecht’s “Question From a Worker That Reads.”

    Caesar defeated the Gauls.
    Did he not even have a cook with him?

    To that I add,

    The 1960s changed the lives of Cooper, Sterling Draper and Price executives
    What about the black janitor who cleaned their offices?

    Now the Sopranos, I will admit, rivals The Wire. It was not only wonderful character study of how the culture of American violence is rationalized in everyday life through the trials and tribulations of a suburban Italian American family, but it is also one of the funniest satires on the hypocrisies of American racism, greed, and affluence of all time. But just like a judge will consider the degree of technical difficulty as a factor in determining the performance of an athletic competition, so will I consider the degree of technical difficulty in determining the artistic merits of a dramatic miniseries. And never was there an ambitious undertaking in American drama so deftly executed than the Wire. There were moments in that show which rivaled the finest literary works of Dickens, Tolstoy, and Balzac. It tricked its white affluent HBO audience into initially believing the story would center upon another white male protagonist cop like Jimmy McNulty and then continued to gradually expand the scope of the narrative to incorporate an entire city, from its police department to its criminal organizations, to its courtrooms, to its unions, to its schools, to its civic institutions, to its municipal government, to its newsrooms like a little seed which bloomed into a mighty redwood.

    You know..the more I think about it..the only logical trade out there for the Knicks is KOQ/Lee for MKG. It makes too much sense. They can slide Batum back to his normal spot and still have a plus defender on the wing while adding a quality big and role player who shoots much better than MKG and is known as a defender. We would get a young wing defender/slasher on offense.

    By the way..my top 5 all time shows are, in no particular order:
    Married With Children, X Files, Supernatural, Breaking Bad, GoT

    It hurt not to put The Wire up there..but it definitely gets an honorable mention. Hell..I might even give AHS one too

    I think The Wire is the best show, but I enjoyed The Sopranos way more.

    Also not as good as what’s already been listed, but The Shield was pretty good and always gets overlooked.

    I will also throw The Twilight Zone into the mix as definitely a top 5 dramatic series of all time. It is, still without a doubt, the greatest anthology series ever put to a television format. It is arguably the most innovative and creative television show of all time for how Rod Serling seamlessly blended fantasy, science fiction, horror, thriller, and suspense genres together from episode to episode. It was definitely one of the most thematically ambitious television shows of the Cold War era, dealing with a range of issues as politically important as conformity, mass hysteria, political authority, tribalism, and militarism while also tackling more universal questions about the human condition regarding love, faith, friendship, beauty, freedom and our uncertain place in the cosmos. And over five decades later it still stands the test of time with classic stories that still speak to us every New Years Eve. Can any of us say with the same certainty that most of the great series of today will find as frequent an audience a half a century down the road as The Twilight Zone does today?

    I’m late to the debate, but thank you DRed for bringing up Deadwood. My favorite show of all time.

    I guess it is the English major in me, but I find the soliloquies sprinkled throughout the the three seasons incredibly powerful–the closest thing to the dramatic speeches of Shakespeare ever on TV. Just to recall one: the one where the town doctor relives treating horribly injured and dying soldiers on the battlefields of the Civil War, and basically curses out God, is unbelievable. I’ve watched the entire show 3 times. It really needed another season or two to finish its tale of the disparate coming together of people that makes up a community, but what was done is epic.

    Many other great shows include The Wire, BB, Mad Men, Twin Peaks (I love the new season, but I understand why many do not). In its day, Hill Street Blues was a game changer. MASH. Seinfeld.

    Twin Peaks is also in my top 5. Totally sui generis stuff from Lynch.

    my top 7 are probably:
    1. The Sopranos
    2. Hannibal (this one will get a lot of resistance, I’m sure–but it’s basically a 3 season experimental film, made for television. Very much my shit, but I’m not gonna argue for it at the moment, lol.)
    3. Mad Men
    4. Deadwood
    5. Twin Peaks
    6a. The Simpsons (seasons 3-11)
    6b. Curb Your Enthusiasm
    7. The Wire

    @85
    Good call on The Twilight Zone! Epic show.

    In its own way, the original Star Trek was great, too, though cheese factor is pretty high with Shatner’s scenery chewing. I actually think that the best “pure” sci-fi show ever is Babylon 5. After a weak first season (and some cast changes), seasons 2-4 were amazing. Kind of like the Deadwood of science fiction shows (coming together of community but also the tragic downfall of individual characters).

    X-Files was great for about 4-5 seasons, then dropped off dramatically.

    You guys are really getting me to watch Deadwood. I’ve had it in my computer for quite a while but never started watching it, I’ll give it a try sometime soon if it’s that good.

    I am particularly enjoying The Leftovers. I haven’t finished the series but I think it is magical realism at some of its best. I don’t know of a show today which interrogates the question of faith as intelligently as it does. As an atheist, I was riveted by its second season and the way which the show functions on an allegorical level to explore the deeper mysteries of the human experience.

    I don’t know about best show overall but the writing in Deadwood is astounding.

    I may have fucked up my life flatter’n hammered shit, but I stand here before you today beholden to no human cocksucker

    @90

    The Leftovers is just fantastic. It gets even better in season 3, in my opinion.

    @89
    Go, Bruno!

    Don’t give up on it; there’s lots of characters in it and it can be tough to follow who’s who in the first season. But, there is some incredible writing, characterizations, and acting. And, some characters change in interesting ways over the three seasons.

    win Peaks (I love the new season, but I understand why many do not)

    I am still unsure whether the new season was genius or whether it was just David Lynch trolling everyone.

    @92
    Al Swearengen may be greatest single character in TV history. On a par with Shakespeare’s greatest characters. I don’t want to spoil much for Bruno, but the gradual revelation of why Swearengen is the way he is, and how he subtly begins to change is amazing.

    Twin Peaks: The Return has moved Agent Cooper (all 3-4 of him) up there, too, if you are into Nietzsche, Freud, and all that (as I am).

    @95
    I’m in the genius camp, though I think there may have been a bit of trolling, too, but that’s part of the genius.

    @94

    I sure will. I’m a sucker for western aesthetics anyway and I have a quite high capability of plowing through hardships as such hahah.

    Hell, I even managed to finish watching Penny freaking Dreadful, for a good show I’ll handle anything.

    Speaking of Westerns, I just revisited Once Upon a Time in the West. I became apparent to me once more that

    1.) It might be the greatest movie in the genre.
    2.) Ennio Morricone is nothing short of a genius. His “Harmonica” score is a haunting of the human soul.
    3.) Tarantino should pay royalties to Sergio Leone’s estate for ripping him off.

    @99
    My all time favorite western film! I had a chance to see it in full theatrical widescreen glory at The University of Tennessee in the 80’s. Great everything. I’ve seen in probably 5-6 times.

    Unforgiven is pretty good, too.

    BTW, I think Claudia Cardinale is one of the very best looking women of all time. She is stunning in Once Upon A Time…

    Unforgiven is pretty good, too.

    My second favorite!

    BTW, I think Claudia Cardinale is one of the very best looking women of all time. She is stunning in Once Upon A Time…

    Totally.

    Wait, almost every Knicks fan agrees that The Wire, Sopranos, and Breaking Bad are the top three shows of all time?

    I wonder if one would find that consensus on Magicblogger, or Jazzblogger, or Pacerblogger?

    I never saw The Wire. I never saw the Sopranos. I watched the first episode of Breaking Bad on Netflix and never went back for more.

    Personally, I think the greatest show in TV history is Knicks In 60, but that’s probably because I’m not that into free throws.

    I never saw The Wire. I never saw the Sopranos

    I both pity and envy you. I pity you because you never saw them. I envy you because, by not having seen these shows, you can enjoy them anew.

    @102

    Knicks in 60 started strong, but the last 15 seasons of the show were pretty awful.

    Mulholland Drive is probably the best English-language film of the century so far, and I don’t like Twin Peaks. Explain that.

    Also:

    The Sopranos proved that no matted how uneven it got, TV could be filmic. The Wire proved that TV could tackle institutional dysfunction and make it compelling and, with the exception of a few ill-advised slo-mo shots, capital-R realistic. Breaking Bad proved that TV could rival Greek tragedy, and in five acts, too.

    There’s no reason to have a hierarchy because we get to enjoy all of them. Even though I think Breaking Bad is tighter than The Sopranos, I recognize that you can’t have the former without the latter’s success.

    @107

    Agreed. When you’re choosing among a smorgasbord of food created by top chefs, from, say, places like 11 Madison Park, Noma, El Bulli, why even both with rank ordering them beyond preference? At that point, it’s nothing but preference, unless, of course, you think one of them isn’t as good as it’s cracked up to be vis a vis the others, which is how I feel about large portions of Breaking Bad.

    Assuming agreement about the best though, I think at that point fashioning an argument for your personal favorite is just an exercise. A fun one and one that can be useful, but one that ought not impute absolute truth to your claim so much as it is the reasons for your uttering and affirming that claim. In that regard, aesthetics isn’t like morality, science, or advanced basketball stats. Though I think there is a divide between what is good and what is bad, still. But when we’re talking about what is already agreed upon as best, things get more murky to the point where I don’t think a rank ordering beyond preference makes sense. In a way, there’s not a fact of the matter with regard to how it ought to be ordered. But that’s just my take.

    I’m in the genius camp, though I think there may have been a bit of trolling, too, but that’s part of the genius.

    I think I am siding that way too. Definitely works better if you have seen Fire Walk With Me. A few people I watched it with hadn’t, so they were a bit lost in a few parts and missed some really subtle clues scattered through the season.

    Mulholland Drive is probably the best English-language film of the century so far, and I don’t like Twin Peaks. Explain that.

    David Lynch is as divisive as the Melo era in New York.

    Jowles, a man with your IQ should be loving Twin Peaks head over heels. How come you don’t?

    Also, I’m blushing at the mention of my Sergio Leone <3. And yes, you all are right about Claudia Cardinale.

    Well, italian cinema as a whole is full of incredible people, from directors to actors to musicians. Truly underrated, if you ask me. I also rewatched the Dollars trilogy so many times I broke the vhs tapes I had.

    To all members of our fantasy league. Mark your calendars
    Please be reminded of all Draft schedule. Hope everyone will be available so that our league will be competitive.

    Oct 14 10pm Philippines
    Oct 14 4pm Italy
    Oct 14 9am USA.

    TWIN PEAKS!

    Sorry I’m late – in Austria rn so time is ahead.

    IQ doesn’t really play a part in liking a tv show. It’s subjective like any other art. Though in a way I get why you would bring that up, IMO what’s required is a willingness to let go of expectations and let the work envelop you, rather than being on alert for possible plot holes or inconsistencies or what. This allows for a better viewing experience, but that’s just me.

    My guess as to why jowles doesn’t like TP is he doesn’t get into the soapyness aspect of it, he strikes me as more of an Albert than a James, if you get what I mean. The first season is heavy on that part, and I can see that taking him out of the meat of the story.

    Twin peaks is my #1 show by far. (Arrested development would be my #2.) The surrealism, spiritualistic notes, are without parrallel, especially taking into account the events of the return(3rd season). Yet the fully fleshed out and cheerable characters are what keep you coming back. Hell, even Jim belushi was downright hilarious at times in the recent season.

    Btw if you do decide to watch the 3rd season, fire walk with me is ESSENTIAL viewing. It’s a lynch work, so you’re working on a tough curve already w/r/t being able to connect the plot lines, so without all the information in FWWM, you’re really up shits creek, pardon my French.

    Not that I would consider myself understanding of what the ending was supposed to convey, but I def wouldn’t have gotten as much as I did (hello, David Bowie!) without the advantage of seeing the movie beforehand. It’s a great movie, on its own right, turning a perceived victim more into a tragic hero.

    Mulholland drive was a magnificent movie, and there’s a rumor out there that it was a continuation of Audrey’s story post-twin peaks S2z

    Of course, I didn’t mean to imply in all seriousness that IQ should factor in liking a work of art. That was pretty much tongue-in-cheek. I still remain curious as to why Jowles doesn’t like it, though.

    Ah I see, just a poke at Jowles. I guess that went over my head…

    Jowles has quite a reputation for being a smart guy around here – for better and for worse. Maybe I haven’t been around here long enough, but he just seems to stick to the stats rather than let the emotion play a factor into the decision. He is a bit cantankerous, but I think it’s just a defense tactic to ensure his original points are the star of the show. In other words – I think if you take him personally, you’re not seeing the forest for the trees.

    But maybe I’m wrong.

    Anyway, glad to be in the company of other watchers of fine television. If we can’t watch good basketball, damned if we can’t watch great TV…

    The best western ever made is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. It is the Wilt Chamberlain of Westerns.

    You young guys, sheesh!

    The best western ever made is either The Searchers or The Wild Bunch, imo.

    Gilligan’s Island is the greatest show of all time.

    I was a kid. My dad was still alive. I insisted my parents watch the show with me because I thought it was the funniest thing I had ever seen. They would come into the room and for half an hour they wouldn’t argue about how we were going to pay the bills this month. Gilligan would do something stupid. I would break out into hysterics and my parents would smile a rare smile. That’s a great show.

    Agree with Z-man….Sergio, Enrico,Eli,Lee &Clint the best starting 5 in history.

    And thanks Dred for the Deadwood hint…forgot to watch that.

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