Knicks Morning News (2016.12.04)

  • [NYDN] Knicks likely to get Noah back for showdown vs. Cousins, Kings
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 9:11:33 PM)

    The Knicks’ string of games against quality NBA big men will continue on Sunday night against DeMarcus Cousins and Sacramento.

  • [NYDN] Derrick Rose is the most interesting man at MSG
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 8:39:30 PM)

    Rose is playing for a new contract, in what he still believes is his prime.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks’ Joakim Noah likely to play against Kings, DeMarcus Cousins
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 7:08:00 PM)

    The Knicks will continue their tour of John Calipari’s biggest hits on Sunday night when the Sacramento Kings come to town, but this time, they’ll probably do it without Friday night’s secret weapon.

  • [SNY Knicks] Will increased level of chemistry between Anthony and Rose continue?
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 12:16:53 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose worked well together during Friday’s win over the Minnesota Timberwolves, with Rose benefiting from playing alongside a fellow star caliber player.

  • [SNY Knicks] Jackson Was Right to Ignore Thibodeau
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 10:10:03 AM)

    Much was made during the off season as Knicks president Phil Jackson ignoring free agent Tom Thibodeau during the coaching search.

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose talks return to elite status, Chicago trauma and being a loner
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 6:57:58 PM)

    New Knicks point guard Derrick Rose takes a shot at some Q&A with Post columnist Steve Serby. Q: How hungry or driven are you to approach the kind of elite player you were? A: I’m always driven. I’ve always been driven. I always had the underdog mentality, no matter where I was at in my…

  • [NYPost] Knicks eye Joakim Noah as NBA’s do-everything monster lurks
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 6:18:37 PM)

    The Knicks sustained some heavy, but hardly irreparable, damage over two games at the hands of Minnesota center Karl-Anthony Towns, who racked up 67 points in a home-and-home set over three days. As good as Towns was, however, the Knicks won both games. But Sunday at the Garden, another monster of tornado force, the Kings’…

  • [NYPost] Porzingis: Why all these nail-biters are going Knicks’ way
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 4:50:00 PM)

    The Knicks are becoming masters of the cliffhanger. Their past six victories (in a 7-3 stretch) have come by a total of 25 points — and in one of the games, they won by 10. But the Knicks still prefer blowouts. “Obviously, with every game we gain more confidence that we can win these games….

  • 72 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.12.04)”

    Has anyone noticed that Derrick Rose wears knee sleeves instead of those huge knee pads he used to wear? I took note of it last game but I couldn’t tell if I were wrong or not. All the compression on his legs was bad for his ability to explode, so seeing that he’s going lighter is a positive development.

    Is the league not going to do anything about Draymond

    He should be suspended the same number of games as if he threw a punch.

    I remember many people here were high on Brandon Knight when he was in Milwaukee, and he seems to be available in Phoenix. Do you trade QOK for him?

    Pop quiz:

    a) The Knicks have the league’s _____ best offense with Derrick Rose on the court.

    b) The Knicks have the league’s _____ highest eFG% with Derrick Rose on the court.

    c) The Knicks have the league’s ______ best offense with Derrick Rose off the court.

    d) The Knicks have the league’s ______ highest eFG% with Derrick Rose off the court.

    If you guessed a) 6th and b) 10th vs. c) 28th and d) 30th, you’re clearly not a regular poster on Knickerblogger.

    Bonus fun fact! No other player on the Knicks even comes close to Rose’s +11 pts/100 difference in on/off production.

    I remember many people here were high on Brandon Knight when he was in Milwaukee, and he seems to be available in Phoenix. Do you trade QOK for him?

    Hecky Naw! Not with Rose and Jennings already on the roster. If we didn’t have Rose and Jennings were the starter, I’d be ok with trading for him, but it would hafta be a packing including Lance rather than KOQ

    The more I see Rose adjusting and the more I hear him talk about being a Knick, the more of a fan I’m becoming. It’s weird because I never really thought much of him as a player. But like I was with Melo, seeing what he can do now that he’s a Knick and I’m watching him closer and more often, I gotta say Rose is a very intriguing player- and he’s pretty damn good.

    Good old on off numbers for a single player in a 20 game sample

    I’m glad we now have unequivocal proof that Derrick Rose is not only a productive player, but also the best player on the team, soley responsible for raising a team’s offense and efg from bottom 5 to top 10

    Has anyone noticed that Derrick Rose wears knee sleeves instead of those huge knee pads he used to wear? I took note of it last game but I couldn’t tell if I were wrong or not. All the compression on his legs was bad for his ability to explode, so seeing that he’s going lighter is a positive development

    Compression isn’t the issue. It is the improved stability by sacrificing subtle mobility. Most people do not realize that the knee joint is NOT a pure saggital hinge joint (one plane of motion). During the last 30 degrees of extension, the knee also rotates about 1 degree for every 3 degrees of movement. If you inhibit this rotation with a hard brace that only allows saggital plane motion, the joint loses some degree of efficient function.

    Bonus fun fact! No other player on the Knicks even comes close to Rose’s +11 pts/100 difference in on/off [offensive] production.

    Double bonus. No other player on the Knicks even comes close to Rose’s -10 pts/100 difference in on/off defensive production. Melo/KP/Rose basically have the same overall on/off at just barely positive, while Lee/Noah are better. Every Knick ex-Kuz has a negative differential while playing.

    @#10….great post, but you know someone is going to show you advanced stats that prove this is not the case.

    I think that the real point is maybe not that Rose has caused the offense to be much better when he is on the court but, rather, that he hasn’t been the net negative that a lot of people claim that he’s been. People here love to point out all of his weaknesses and, if you listened only to them, you would think that the offense grinds to a halt every time he steps onto the court. However, the statistics show that that is clearly not the case and the offense has been much better with him on the court. It’s too early to tell whether that is because of him or in spite of him, but claiming that his ball-stopping ways have killed the offense is blatantly ignoring reality.

    @13. Exactly. The way Rose is talked about around here you’d think any player that awful would be an irredeemable drag on the offense. Instead we go from absolute garbage when he’s off the floor to borderline elite when he steps on the hardwood. Go figure! I’m sure that really chaps the ass of the posters around here who were vocally hoping he’d sustain a season-ending injury so that the team would be spared the burden of having to play him. Thank goodness they’re being proved so very, very wrong.

    Rose has played 13 total minutes without one or both of Melo and Porzingis on the court.

    Is there any evidence that Rose hurts the offense? I’d genuinely like to see an argument for it.

    Rose has been better than expected, which is to say he has been a Ray Felton-caliber point guard. He has a TS% a tick over .500 and a WS48 around .050.

    Therein lies the problem. He has played far better than I thought he would, and he’s still “meh.” Not a complete black hole like he was over the last couple of seasons, and an okay stopgap, but still terrible value at $21M or anything approaching that number. It would be a bad idea to extend him at anything other than a “stopgap PG” contract.

    Any way you slice it, Derrick Rose is not a top-30 PG in the league, statistically speaking. He has played somewhat better lately, and had some pretty good games, but has a long way to go before we can conclude that he’s a decent starting PG.

    http://bkref.com/tiny/A1IHH

    Statistics aside, I like how he scores tough baskets in tough spots. When he gets it going, he can be fun to watch. But yeah, he has been mediocre at best.

    C’mon Owen, we all know what you’re gonna say. Zinger is great, Melo and Rose suck, Phil is an idiot but Hornacek is a good coach, we’re mediocre but there are glimmers of hope, etc.

    I really just want Rose to play well because of how fucking annoying people were in trying to one up each other on depressing takes after the trade. The reality is that Rose has neither been great or awful. He’s had around the impact of a league average point guard, which is exactly what I hoped for when we made the deal.

    Idk if that’s something the Knicks should commit to long term, but I think regardless of how we address PG for the present, we need to draft a PG of the future this year. There are so many potential quality PGs in this draft and it’s our best chance to have a prospect to groom for that role.

    @21

    Hopefully we trade up in the draft then. All the good ones look like they’re gonna be gone by the time we pick.

    He’s had around the impact of a league average point guard

    But like, this is a demonstrably false statement. He’s been below average in every statistical category and his defense sucks.

    What do the defensive metrics say about Rose’s defense? Are any of them reliable for a ~20 game sample?

    @18 — well, based on the chart you post, you can “slice it” statistically to argue that he is top 30 statistically. According to your chart, he is top 30 in scoring, FG%, FT%, fewest turnovers/36, offensive, defensive and total rebounds and a couple other categories. And then there a stats that aren’t in your chart like drives to the basket and shooting percentage at the rim, where he is elite. I’m NOT arguing that he’s been great and I wish he had a better 3pt % and a couple more assists, but stop acting like the stats prove conclusively that he’s been awful. He hasn’t been.

    they say he sucks. Don’t over think things.

    bruh this entire blog is based on overthinking things

    Rose sucks at defense according to DRPM, DBPM, the opponent counterpart stats on 82games, on/off, def rating . . .which defensive metrics say he doesn’t suck?

    In those two categories he’s top five in the league. If you want to nitpick and say only top 3 are elite, ok, he’s not elite in those two things.

    Why can’t we as Knicks fans just accept Rose and root for him in hopes he gets better? He’s not a net negative, and he brings things to the table that makes the offense better. Listen, I don’t think he’s great. I wasn’t a fan of the trade. But, he’s ours right now and his play is trending upwards. Instead of rooting for his play to continue that trend, a lot of people shoot him down. He’s never been a horrible player. Injury bug bitten and slowly climbing back to effectiveness, sure. But he’s always been above average at the least. Last year he stunk in Chicago. This year, his game seems to fit this roster better. That doesn’t make him elite by any standard, but it does make his play important for the team we supposedly love. Therefore, I am intrigued and will root for him. Would I rather have a better PG? Absolutely! But that certainly doesn’t make him trash. He’s good and he’s trending upwards- that’s pretty much all we can hope for right now.

    DRose plays pretty good D so far, he’s clutch as fuck and he’s slashing the opponent D like KOQ’s slashing the hamburgers.

    Whining about DRose’s game right now should warn any knicks fan to check his thyroid for malfunction.

    Paying DRose 21M is like charity compared to Calderon’s 8M.

    Only if you have zero understanding of what “opportunity cost” is.

    The trend on Rose has been up, to be fair. His last 10 games at least seem to be better. He’s had better game scores in B-R.

    Rose has been better than expected, which is to say he has been a Ray Felton-caliber point guard. He has a TS% a tick over .500 and a WS48 around .050.

    Therein lies the problem. He has played far better than I thought he would, and he’s still “meh.” Not a complete black hole like he was over the last couple of seasons, and an okay stopgap, but still terrible value at $21M or anything approaching that number. It would be a bad idea to extend him at anything other than a “stopgap PG” contract.

    While I am not a Rose guy nor do I have a dog in this fight, I would like to make a general criticism

    The anti Rose guys during the trade analysis had the position the guy was pure AIDs as a player and clearly he is not. Worst player practically ever!

    When I was looking at his stats this morning, I said to myself he is statistically playing like Ray Felton overall. Not a cornerstone, but a passable stop gap.

    None of the naysayers thought that was possible. He is clearly better than his last 3 seasons, but way behind his previous two.

    But a few things are working in his favor. He missed the entire training camp. He seems perfectly healthy. He is learning an entirely new system and a new group of team mates and how to utilize them. He seems to be playing better recently. And , above all he competes. When up against a great player like Westbrook the other night, Calderon, etc all would have wet their pants, but Rose gave a representative effort.

    He still has too many 6-20 nights unnecessarily, but I would not be surprised if he plays at a slightly better than league average level by the last third of the season….

    Rose sucks at defense according to DRPM, DBPM, the opponent counterpart stats on 82games, on/off, def rating . . .which defensive metrics say he doesn’t suck?

    Sure, on defense he sucks, but overall he’s been totally okay as a player. I’m not saying Rose is THE reason why our offense is improved, but he’s a contributing factor and might even get better if he can find the touch from mid-range again.

    As far as re-signing him goes I’m not sold and really I don’t think I can feel good about it until I see how the whole season plays out. Obviously I’d love Chris Paul, but I also am a fan of Jrue, as I think his experience playing with Davis would make his fit next to KP very nice.

    Melo: Hey Derrick, thanks for being a Knick. Its great to have you as a teammate. You’ve made my life a lot easier.

    Rose: No problem. Is it bc I’m the best PG you’ve had as a Knick and my ability to score helps ease the burden for you?

    Melo: Nah. Its cause now I’m not the most hated person on knickerblogger.

    The trend on Rose has been up, to be fair. His last 10 games at least seem to be better

    It takes time for new team mates to develop chemistry. Sometimes months.

    Derrick Rose is attacking and finishing at peak Derrick Rose efficiency.

    If he starts hitting his jumper and continues to get to the line on occasion, as he’s had the last 8 games, this is an entirely different conversation.

    I don’t think it’s out of the question games 21-40 are a lot better for Derrick Rose than games 1-20. But yeah he hasn’t been an impact player on the stat sheet. So far he’s been good at rebounding and breaking down defenses. Once he gets good at scoring and maybe passing he’ll be good. I think he’ll be good enough to produce minimum 5 wins this year.

    If he starts hitting his jumper and continues to get to the line on occasion, as he’s had the last 8 games, this is an entirely different conversation.

    And if Melo adds 6 inches to his vertical, Noah develops a pick-and-pop game, Porzingis learns to box out, and Lance Thomas becomes an actual basketball player, this is an entirely different conversation.

    We’re just talking about Rose hitting jumpers at closer to career averages, nothing maigcal. If he shoots jumpers at the same rate as last year — all else being equal– his TS rises into the 560s.

    1. Derick Rose is playing wonderfully.

    2. KP is playing much better than last year.

    3. Melo is a borderline superstar

    Yet somehow the Knicks are only a .500 team.

    That’s because 2 out of 3 of those beliefs are wrong and KP playing better is not one of them.

    There’s nothing magical about anything that I said. These are elite, top-10 — nay, top-5 players at each position. No reason to think that they couldn’t all have career years due to synergy and chemistry. This is basically an All-NBA team temporarily disguised as a .500 team. If they can just win the next 50 out of 63 or so, they have a real shot at hitting 60 wins.

    What Jowles and co. said would and could never happen already has — Rose has thus far been one of the best attacking/slashing/finishing/pnr scoring guards in the league.

    We’re just talking about Rose hitting jumpers at closer to career averages, nothing maigcal. If he shoots jumpers at the same rate as last year — all else being equal– his TS rises into the 560s.

    At his peak Rose was about 53% or 54% player (one single year better). If he can get back into that same range because his usage will lower in NY and he’ll have more help on this team, we should be happy. But that would still only make him only an adequate PG given that he’s not great at anything else. He’s the Melo of PGs.

    1. Derick Rose is playing wonderfully.

    Nobody is saying this. There’s a big difference between saying Derrick Rose is playing fine and having some positive impact on the court and saying he’s wonderful and perfect.

    3. Melo is a borderline superstar

    By this logic Paul George is also not a borderline superstar.

    Pacers are 9-10 despite Paul George being a borderline superstar and Turner exploding this season. So yeah, cool story bro.

    If Rose was Wesbrook we wouldn’t have got him for comicRolo+garbage rookie + paella pg.
    We got a “slashing pg injury prone bet” and we’re winning so far.

    Hitting Rose for not being elite pg is like hitting CBosh for not playing bball right now.

    We didn’t give him the 21M contract.
    We just rented him for many known reasons and i wouldn’t mind having him after this season if he’s fitting nicely and his money are reasonable to his value on the court.

    What’s wrong with that ?

    RoLo is better than Holiday and Rose so I don’t think we’re winning that bet. I do think we would have been a depressed group if the Knicks were trotting out BJ and Grant as our PGs. Or maybe not, but Lee’s sucktitude would have hurt a lot more if the Knicks didn’t have Holiday as Vujacic would have played more minutes.

    The Knicks better win tonight, I’m postponing watching the season finale of Westworld.

    Even with Melo, after that horrible Charlotte game, Melo came out passing and playing much smarter. He shot poorly in the first Minny game, but was less hero-ball oriented. Last night he was much more of a team-oriented opportunistic player. Maybe Hornacek had a private talk with him, maybe not, but something obviously happened.

    The MSG fans booed Melo. Is this perhaps Melo’s kryptonite which makes him waive NTC? Cronin, tell me there’s a particle of a chance here? If so, these boos may be sweeter to the ear than the MSG ones which rained upon one Paul Pierce.

    just enjoy finally watching the Knicks inch upward instead of going the other way?

    NO, Confucius say: the better the present, the worse the future. I hereby introduce the motion that KB.net retire the term “optimists” and hereafter refer to this group as “enablers” of Phil’s demented “charge the hill at any cost” stewardship. It’s terrifying to think of Rose on a 4-year deal, Melo extended, KP averaging 35+mpg, Noah’s sinking ark, a meh vs a high draft pick, and so on.

    The MSG fans booed Melo. Is this perhaps Melo’s kryptonite which makes him waive NTC? Cronin, tell me there’s a particle of a chance here? If so, these boos may be sweeter to the ear than the MSG ones which rained upon one Paul Pierce.

    I think its definitely his kryptonite dating back to the Linsanity era and before – Melo wants to be loved in NYC as the hero who saved the Knicks. It fits into his need to be the hero baller. He’s already reconciling with the fact that KP is beloved most here. But boos are the last straw.

    The boos may hurt Melo’s ego but they increase his shooting efficiency.
    And Lala should point him out that.
    They’re actually guiding boos, not hatred ones.
    They’re good warm boos.
    I like ’em !

    as much as i like to hate on rose… i’m surprised no one’s talking about koq….

    his biggest problem was that he was doing too much but now his usg% is sitting at 16.8% which would be a career low… coincidentally.. he’s at his career high ws48 of .137….

    he doesn’t have to start… but he’s absolutely ready for substantially more minutes…

    “The MSG fans booed Melo. Is this perhaps Melo’s kryptonite which makes him waive NTC? Cronin, tell me there’s a particle of a chance here? If so, these boos may be sweeter to the ear than the MSG ones which rained upon one Paul Pierce.”

    Wow

    I don’t think anyone has said give Rose an extension right now. I think if the team wins high 40’s-50 games you consider extending him, depending on the role he plays. So far, he’s been fun to watch. He’s athletic and gets to the hoop. He pushes the pace. He needs to be more consistent as does the whole team. No one is satisfied with 10-9 but it’s a lot of fun compared to what we’ve seen and wins over playoff teams at home (ATL, POR) are cause for optimism.

    Maybe they’ll be 21-21, extend Rose at the max for four years with a NTC, and proceed to go on a ten game losing streak. That’d be Knicksy. Hopefully Phil knows better. Derrick has a year to prove himself. Phil needs to take all that time to judge him. The team is better than they’ve been and seems to be getting better as the season progresses. So, we’re all hoping for a statistical anomaly that would put Rose back in the category of “Elite PG’s”. It doesn’t seem out of the question.

    Of course, here comes the 5-20 and the bad loss at home tonight…because Knicks, but I’ll keep hoping.

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