Knicks Morning News (2016.12.03)

  • [NYDN] Derrick Rose has no plans to leave New York in free agency
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 8:10:54 PM)

    Most people come to New York City for the spotlight.

  • [NYDN] Knicks contain Towns, score season-high 118 points in win
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 8:09:04 PM)

    The Knicks held Karl-Anthony Towns scoreless for nearly the entire first half.

  • [NYDN] O’Quinn may leave Knicks with center choice when Noah return
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 8:07:36 PM)

    Joakim Noah has struggled when in the lineup this season.

  • [NYDN] Thomas returns to Knicks after injury, but Noah, Lee still out
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 2:57:14 PM)

    Lance Thomas was back in uniform on Friday night after missing the previous nine games with a bone bruise in his right ankle.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks beat Timberwolves, sweep home-and-home
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 10:42:48 PM)

    The Knicks beat the Timberwolves on Friday night, 118-114.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks vs. Timberwolves
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 6:08:12 PM)

    The Knicks take on the Timberwolves in the back end of a home-and-home at Madison Square Garden on Friday night at 7:30 p.m.

  • [SNY Knicks] Noah remains out Friday due to sprained ankle
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 5:50:48 PM)

    Joakim Noah will not play Wednesday against the Timberwolves because of a sprained left ankle, the team announced.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: On Melo, Porzingis, and the Knicks going forward
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 10:00:32 AM)

    Knicks beat writer Stefan Bondy joins Daily News Live to discuss Carmelo Anthony, Kristaps Porzingis and the Knicks moving forward.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis discusses offensive development around Anthony, Rose
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 8:32:00 AM)

    New York Knicks forward Kristaps Porzingis has benefitted from playing alongside Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings in order to better his offensive playmaking.

  • [ESPN] With eye on future, Derrick Rose driving Knicks in the present
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 2:26:14 AM)

    With eye on future, Derrick Rose driving Knicks in the present

  • [ESPN] Rose: I envision my long-term future as a Knick
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 8:21:32 PM)

    Rose: I envision my long-term future as a Knick

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks squander lead, but beat Timberwolves again
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 12:18:53 AM)

    It may be a few months early for Groundhog’s Day, but on Friday night, Hornacek’s Knicks did a fairly spot-on recreation of their game two days earlier.

  • [NY Newsday] Courtney Lee’s ankle improving; he could return for Knicks on Sunday
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 9:59:46 PM)

    Three days ago, Courtney Lee couldn’t even walk. By Friday, he was able to get a few shots up. And Sunday? Well, he might just be back, he said.

  • [NYPost] Joakim Noah, who? Kyle O’Quinn makes MSG his playground
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 11:51:57 PM)

    Maybe it was the 18-foot jumper Kyle O’Quinn knocked down early in the fourth quarter, the one that temporarily halted a Timberwolves blitzkrieg and restored a modicum of order to the proceedings … No, no, that wasn’t it. Maybe this was it: The flurry a few minutes later, after the Knicks had actually handed the…

  • [NYPost] Unlikely hero bails out Knicks in tight win over Timberwolves
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 5:29:27 PM)

    The Knicks may have a starting-center controversy on their hands. Things looked dire for Jeff Hornacek’s team down the stretch, missing two starters and getting an awful shooting performance from Kristaps Porzingis. But have no fear. Kyle O’Quinn is here. Yes, Derrick Rose and Carmelo Anthony stepped up, but the Knicks got by far the…

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose: Would be ‘cool’ to be with Knicks for rest of career
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 3:51:56 PM)

    Derrick Rose was quoted in Slam Magazine this week saying he hopes he can spend the rest of his career with the Knicks. Rose told The Post earlier this week he had heard nothing from the Knicks regarding an in-season contract extension. Asked about that possibility Friday, Rose said he would be intrigued. “My thought…

  • [NYPost] The rookie shame that Kristaps Porzingis hasn’t forgotten
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 7:52:09 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has revealed his most embarrassing moment: Dwight Howard dunking on him during his rookie year. It happened at the Garden on Nov. 29, 2015, against the Rockets – with the Knicks phenom cowering as the so-called “Superman’’ threw down a monstrous alley-oop. The Rockets broadcasters reveled in the moment: “He almost stuffed the rookie…

  • [NYTimes] Kyle O’Quinn’s Big Display Lifts Knicks Over Timberwolves
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 3:56:49 AM)

    Although Kristaps Porzingis and Karl-Anthony Towns roamed the court, Kyle O’Quinn had the applause-worthy performance, helping the Knicks recover from a blown early lead.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Bad News for Rest of N.B.A.: Giannis Antetokounmpo Just Keeps Improving
    (Friday, December 02, 2016 6:16:42 PM)

    At 6-foot-11 but with point guard skills, Antetokounmpo has come to define a novel position — point center — for the Bucks, and is now developing a 3-point shot.

  • [NYTimes] He Works Day and Night for the Nets. And the Other Nets.
    (Saturday, December 03, 2016 4:41:01 AM)

    Chris McCullough’s dual career with two Brooklyn teams is unusual, but a split existence is not. 45 N.B.A. players have been assigned on 103 occasions this season to D-League stints.

  • 95 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.12.03)”

    re the Rose interview, get ready for the 4X18 extension. Hopefully they wait until the offseason before committing.

    Rose played great yesterday. Extending him would be so bad. Paying Rose, Courtney Lee and Noah $55 million in 2020 is like buying pre-need funeral service.

    One more game before the 20 game mark and D Rose has a TS% of .509 and a WS/48 of .054 (that’s 6x better than what he posted last year).

    Right now I’d give Derrick Rose the current Steph Curry contract. He’s looking at double that, though, so I need him to get his WS/48 up to around .150 and his TS% to .550.

    I also don’t know about this cap space we have in the off season. We’re going to extend Rose if he doesn’t get hurt and we cannot let Justin Holiday walk. The only way we can really have cap space is if we trade two of Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee, and Joakim Noah.

    The best writers prodded Hornacek into saying he’d consider keeping KOQ as a starter even when Noah is healthy. Assuming Noah ever gets fully healthy, how do you think he’d play with Jennings and the Euros?

    If Rose plays well enough to be considered for a “reasonable” extension, he will not settle for anything less than top dollar. I could see signing him for 3 years so that all the big contracts expired in the same year, but nothing beyond that, and certainly nothing more than Noah money. I wouldn’t extend him at all, but that’s just me.

    Wasn’t Conley injured while playing? Yes the deal is bad if he can’t return to form, but I don’t think you can really criticize a deal for a random incident.

    As for KOQ starting when Noah said up, I am conflicted. The team is undefeated with him starting, but Noah off the bench may break up the Euro unit that I am fond of.

    Kinda seems like there will more in-season trades than usual this year. A lot of teams that seem like they are somewhat off-plan in that their rosters are in-between relative to their developing outlook. Dallas, Denver, Sacto, Minny, Wiz, Celts, Suns, New Orleans, maybe Orlando…

    We absolutely cannot bench Noah. We have to start him to keep his trade value from dissipating.

    It would look a lot better at the deadline if we had two starting caliber 5s rather than a guy who lost his job. Maybe Washington would trade for him considering their interest in him this summer. Or maybe, we’ll have 3 really good big guys and a developing Hernangomez who seems to be a turnover problem away from being productive. We need as many good players as possible on the roster since we’re only 10-9.

    This team is beginning to round into form but we’re far from a finished product yet. We will get much better before the season is over and will compete for the East Coast championship.

    Rose is getting better every day. He makes us a legit contender with his clutch play. There are a lot of players out there who can excel when the game isn’t on the line but Rose is at his best in those scenarios.

    Holiday has been terrific for us. Jennings has been our Euro catalyst. O’Quinn turning into Oakman. Kuz becoming Ginobili-like. Willy a baby Marc Gasol. Melo has played great at times and he has to realize not to hold the ball as much. Lee, Noah and Lance will definitely contribute more going forward than they already have. KP is still learning and becoming stronger and will lead us to the promised land soon.

    The future is very bright.

    Holiday is turning into a real find. He’s been soooo impressive for a guy who was not really discussed at the time of the Rose deal.

    Here’s an interesting statistical quirk: Rose, BJ, Holiday and Lee are all playing to a WS48 of between .051 and .057. It seems like they are all very up-and-down. This points to the positive way that Hornacek is utilizing them. It seems like he is running with the players who are playing well in any given game. Last night it was Rose and Holiday.

    Really liking Hornacek’s reserved but intense and cerebral approach to coaching. He’s a good interview too.

    Another thing that’s surprising to me is the intensity of BJ’s 84 feet of on-the-ball defense, starting with the inbounds pass. He reminds me a bit of Prigioni in that regard.

    Hornacek has been very good. It feels like we have solid coaching night in and night out. that hasnt happened since what, D’Antoni? Van Gundy?

    He’s the first truly competent coach in a while for this franchise

    Lol if Kuzminskas turns into Ginobili we’ll have won the lottery twice over. But I feel you

    My problem with D’Antoni was that he ran hot players into the ground and he has a horrible doghouse mentality. I still resent that he decided to run Steph out of town before the season even began. He reported in great shape and was clearly way better than Duhon. It was totally ego-driven on D’Antoni’s part based on prior history.

    Hornacek comes across as upbeat, humble and thick-skinned. He’s about as no-frills as you can get. He certainly coddles Melo to a degree as any smart coach would, but isn’t about a rigid system or a rigid rotation or about win this game at any cost. He’s mixing guys in, going with the hot hand, subtly tweaking players via minutes distribution, subtly drifting from the triangle. It seems like the players really respect him.

    Even with Melo, after that horrible Charlotte game, Melo came out passing and playing much smarter. He shot poorly in the first Minny game, but was less hero-ball oriented. Last night he was much more of a team-oriented opportunistic player. Maybe Hornacek had a private talk with him, maybe not, but something obviously happened.

    the whole Marbury situation was weird. I thought the players voted to bench him? And I wouldn’t be surprised if D’Antoni was getting pressure from above to bury the guy. Marbury gave some pretty damaging testimony during the sexual harassment trial.

    I really like Kuz. He’s a legit 6’9″ with guard skills. He needs to put some meat on his bones, and to further adapt to the speed, length and power of the NBA game, but the guy is made for the NBA game. Ginobili he is not, but I’d settle for a poor man’s Peja.

    I hear you tdne, but as a coach, he was by far the best PG on that team in a contract year and D’Antoni should at least given him a chance to run the team. Instead, he ran Duhon into the ground, and then Felton, and then Lin. He was often (but not always) a total asshole when it came to managing players, minutes and the press. Whatever Steph was, he didn’t deserve to be banished w/o a fair shot.

    Frankly, he was a dumb hire. You don’t hire a high-profile coach at the beginning of a rebuild, especially when you don’t have the right personnel for his coaching philosophy. (Thibs, anyone?) He was a perfect hire for Houston, as Harden is the perfect 7SoL player. Whatever, Hornacek is so much more appetizing for me.

    By the time he went to Boston, he had been idle all season and never really fit in. However, there were no complaints about his character. If D’Antoni ran Steph out there and he played poorly in the first 5-10 games, then benching him would have been OK. But the way it was done was horseshit.

    So I’m looking at the Knicks next 20 games. 15-5 is a real possiblity if this team shows that it’s a good consistently squad.

    25-14 ? We shall see

    So I’m looking at the Knicks next 20 games. 15-5 is a real possiblity if this team shows that it’s a good consistently squad.25-14 ? We shall see

    Be careful, while we’re lucky that on this upcoming West Coast trip we only play 1 good team out of 5 games (Kings ,Lakers, Suns, Warriors, Nuggets) you get off on the wrong foot with a couple of ugly losses and it tends to snowball. We’ve seen it many times in the past. I wouldn’t be shocked with 1-4.

    25-14 ? We shall see

    From your mouth to God’s ears, pal!

    The funny thing is, as maligned as Drose and Melo are, we aren’t as good without them. Veteran presence is important and these guys tend to play well down the stretch, not necessarily when everyone else is choking, but when everyone else is tired. Veterans are able to think calmly and make a play. That may have been why we won two against MIN.

    I realize that maybe their lax approach for 46 minutes can contribute to the need for heroics. Overall I still put us in the mediocre category that Brian Cronin talked about. They need to pound SAC now. They need to have a 10 over .500 stretch, then I change my mind and start looking for #s that work for Derrick. No extensions please for a team that hovers above and below the break even mark. AND PLEASE DON’T trade any of the younger guys for that “last piece”. I’ll cry if Mindaugus is killing it for DEN in 2017-2018.

    I love Noah but the NBA game may have passed him by. There’ll be an amnesty in the next CBA, no? I hope he makes me eat those words.

    My problem with D’Antoni was that he ran hot players into the ground and he has a horrible doghouse mentality. I still resent that he decided to run Steph out of town before the season even began. He reported in great shape and was clearly way better than Duhon. It was totally ego-driven on D’Antoni’s part based on prior history.

    Oh man, I hated when he did that. Total dick move. It wasn’t even that Marbury shouldn’t have been benched (I don’t think he should have, but it wasn’t like he clearly shouldn’t have been benched), but D’Antoni didn’t tell him until right before Game 1 after Marbury totally accepted that he was going to be coming off of the bench and had played as a back-up all training camp long. Just a real dick thing to do by D’Antoni. That’s the same year that he sat Robinson for, like, 20 games and then started playing him again without Robinson changing his game at all. So what was the point of the 20 game benching?!!?

    I think D’Antoni is a very smart coach, but holy shit, that dude does some dickish things a lot.

    There’ll be an amnesty in the next CBA, no?

    No, it appears unlikely that there will be an amnesty in the new CBA.

    Why don’t they just allow each team an amnesty every CBA? Does it really hurt anyone? Most amnesties have been shitty or just overpaid players, and by dumping them they give weaker teams a chance to bid on them first at a discount, while enabling teams to get out from one albatross contract and making the product better for the NBA.

    I dunno, but a good chunk of the owners are really down on the idea of having another amnesty and the players don’t really care, so it just never got much movement in the negotiations.

    Amnesty, if it becomes expected, can affect the marginal price of risk. If owners expect an Amnesty every CBA then a risky player’s market price increases a lot for teams who care mainly about cap versus budget. This is an ex ante disadvantage for budget-minded teams and a modest disadvantage for smart pricers of risk. People who think of themselves as one or both of those two are the majority of owners. Plus, those risky player prices like Amar’e or Chandler Parsons tend to cascade. A fair Amnesty rule would charge some kind of premium against the cap like the Lloyd’s policy cost to account for ex ante risk differences, kind of like risk adjusted FDIC bank premiums. But that’s too cumbersome and complex to be realistic.

    @34 thanks pt. So, maybe something like an amnesty would leave a scar on the cap for the length of the original contract, say 10-20%? For example, if an amnestied player had 3 years at $20 mill per, a $2-4 mill per year cap charge would remain on the books? That doesn’t seem that cumbersome. So say the Griz amnestied Conley, if they still had $3-6 mill of dead space on the cap, that would penalize them beyond having to pay Conley’s salary even though he was playing elsewhere…

    Anyone that gives Rose a large long term contract should be fired immediately.

    Anyone that suggests it’s a good idea should be put on ignore or mute immediately as a basketball analyst.

    This team is nowhere near being a contender. Locking in Rose would basically be locking in this starting 5 and putting the entire burden of the Knicks becoming a contender on KP turning into at least Nowitski/Durant and hoping that is enough even though Melo, Noah, and Rose will all be declining – assuming one or both of Rose/Noah haven’t broken down altogether.

    The only way this team can contend with the current rebuild is to improve sharply at PG and get a lot of development out of KP. Other than that, when we clean house and rebuild around KP that will be the next opportunity.

    On another note, how are we one of the best offensive rebounding teams in the league and one of the worst defensive rebounding teams? Are we good at tip-outs but bad at boxing out?

    @Z-Man

    We have good space rebounders which is beneficial when crashing the offensive glass, but our bigs and especially KP, don’t box out, which is a big problem on the defensive glass.

    The only way this team can contend with the current rebuild is to improve sharply at PG and get a lot of development out of KP. Other than that, when we clean house and rebuild around KP that will be the next opportunity.

    Yeah, no shit. That’s why they should be focused on one of the PGs that will be available in this draft to develop behind whomever is signed to be the starting point.

    Anyone that suggests it’s a good idea should be put on ignore or mute immediately as a basketball analyst.

    I’d say the same for those who did or do think Calderon is better than Rose.

    I’d say the same for those who did or do think Calderon is better than Rose.

    I think it’s more nuanced than better or worse.

    If you need penetration and scoring, you are better off with Rose.

    If you have plenty of scoring, another player that can penetrate, and all you need is someone to bring up the ball, not turn it over , and knock down open shots playing off the scorers, you are better of with Calderon (especially at the price).

    Arguing that Rose is a “lot” better then Calderon seems like tough battle to win given that KP is much better than last year, Lee is a bit better than Afflalo on both sides, our bench (Jennings, Cheese, Willy and KOQ) has been surprisingly good compared to last year (especially Jennings) and we are only a .500 team so far. We also added Noah.

    So just how much is Rose adding?

    I think very little except for some highlight plays (which is what fans notice but which adds little) while he’s earning his 50% TS% with bad and missed shots and occasionally very dumb TOs.

    @37 Who would you go with as our point guard next season if not Rose?

    I’d draft one if I couldn’t trade or sign a good one, but I’d also try to trade Melo and Noah, and let Rose walk. I wanted no part of this “satisfying Melo” rebuild. I thought it was idiotic. I like the kids, Jennings made a lot of sense, and I think Lee is OK.

    There’s all sorts of weirdness in the ORB%/DRB% team stats.

    Pelicans 30th/11th
    Grizzlies 17th/2nd
    Wizards 6th/24th
    Mavericks 27th/4th

    They appear to be completely different skills, weirdly and/or dependent on different variables (i.e. possibly whether frontcourt players are taking lots of midrange shots and thus not getting ORB), which makes sense. Note that that’s just a spitballed explanation for why a team could be so good at touching the ball on one side and so bad on the other.

    I’d say the same for those who did or do think Calderon is better than Rose.

    Why are we still talking about Calderon?

    It doesn’t matter if he is better of worse than Rose.

    4 years of Rose could be very damaging for the team’s future and I agree 100% with Stratomatic.

    This team in not going anywhere with a core of Rose, Lee, Melo and Noah unless KP is the real deal.

    Let Rose go and draft/sign a younger PG.

    We probably won’t be able to sign a good younger PG. They just don’t grow on trees. And drafting one offers no guarantee for success either.

    I would think that the organization is satisfying their fans at least as much as Melo with their tactics of signing both veterans and youngsters who have potential. I like this path much better than the 76ers path.

    Some of the offensive and defensive rebounding stats are strategic.

    Some coaches believe that you should get back as soon as the shot goes up and sacrifice OREBs to stop the break and play better defense.

    Phil seems to believe that you should have your players in position to get more offensive rebounds.

    Mike D’Antoni used believe that it was OK to sacrifice an occasional defensive rebound to allow a few players leak out early and get easy buckets on the break.

    I like this path much better than the 76ers path.

    I like winning better than sucking also, but the 76ers have a better chance of winning it all several years from now than we do at this stage. They have a core of 3-4 very good young players to develop and build around and will have a better pick this year. When we start over it will be with KP.

    Arguing that Rose is a “lot” better then Calderon seems like tough battle to win given that KP is much better than last year, Lee is a bit better than Afflalo on both sides, our bench (Jennings, Cheese, Willy and KOQ) has been surprisingly good compared to last year (especially Jennings) and we are only a .500 team so far. We also added Noah.

    So just how much is Rose adding?

    Well the fact that defenses actually have to actually react to penetration which creates mismatches that KP and Melo have had better success converting on this season is what Rose is adding. You can try and play semantics and role and fit and whatever else you want, but 30 out of 30 GMs in the league know Derrick Rose, regardless of salary constraints, is a better player than Jose Calderon.

    Why are we still talking about Calderon?

    It doesn’t matter if he is better of worse than Rose.

    We’re talking about the fact that people here thought the team would be worse off because Calderon was such an awesome and efficient offensive player, while Rose was inefficient and terrible and did nothing of value. Somehow our offense has been much better even though Rose is a much more inefficient scorer on higher usage.

    Rose isn’t even the best PG on this team.

    Maybe not, but both Rose and Jennings are massive improvements over Jose.

    I like winning better than sucking also, but the 76ers have a better chance of winning it all several years from now than we do at this stage.

    Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. There is no way to measure this with the myriad of variables.

    The Knicks could reach the ECF this year. Philly may never get that far. Embiid as good as he is has a chronic foot problem that kept him out for two whole years. Ben Simmons is missing one year of NBA ball. These players will have to be resigned at some point all with years of development lost

    our offense is probably better because of the simple fact we are playing more pnr…. our offense is better but it probably would have been better with almost any pg….

    if last night’s game was any indication…. koq should be starting also… if he starts getting major minutes then i think we have a shot at 42 wins…

    Well the fact that defenses actually have to actually react to penetration which creates mismatches that KP and Melo have had better success converting on this season is what Rose is adding.

    I’m not buying it.

    1. Melo’s efficiency is no better this year than it has been historically despite playing with Rose, an improved KP, and a play making C like Noah.

    2. KP’s increased efficiency is just as likely to be because he’s a better player taking smarter shots in his 2nd season than it is because he’s playing with Rose. Jennings has been the better play maker of the two PGs to begin with.

    3. Rose’s AST% is barely higher than Calderon’s.

    I’m not arguing that Calderon was a big contributor to NY . He wasn’t. But neither is Rose. It’s just for different reasons. The reason Rose is more highly regarded is because at his best the gap between him and Calderon was enormous and people remember that. The other reason is that a lot of teams DO NEED those “go to” scorers that can create a shot late and Rose can do that particular skill way better.

    Just because you say something doesn’t make it true. There is no way to measure this with the myriad of variables.

    I agree. Bookmark my post and we’ll discuss it in 2-3 years. I’ll update my view as new information, new draft picks, new trades etc… occur. I think it’s obvious they are better positioned long term “to win a championship” than we are in this snapshot in time, but things change.

    “If you have plenty of scoring, another player that can penetrate, and all you need is someone to bring up the ball, not turn it over , and knock down open shots playing off the scorers, you are better of with Calderon (especially at the price).”

    Let’s pretend that these skills are equivalent.

    1. Melo’s efficiency is no better this year than it has been historically despite playing with Rose, an improved KP, and a play making C like Noah.

    2. KP’s increased efficiency is just as likely to be because he’s a better player taking smarter shots in his 2nd season than it is because he’s playing with Rose. Jennings has been the better play maker of the two PGs to begin with.

    Their individual efficiency have been much better this season with Rose on the floor than with Jennings, because Rose is a threat to score the ball and teams don’t have the opportunity to set their defenses specifically to load up on both.

    Melo w/ Rose On + Jennings Off: 50.0 eFG%, 54.7 TS%, 32.8 3P%, 27.0 USG%, 1.13 PPP
    Melo w/ Jennings On + Rose Off: 45.7 eFG%, 48.0 TS%, 38.5 3P%, 44.5 USG%, 1.00 PPP

    KP w/ Rose On + Jennings Off: 55.8 eFG%, 58.8 TS%, 42.9 3P%, 23.1 USG%, 1.21 PPP
    KP w/ Jennings On + Rose Off: 50.5 eFG%, 54.4 TS%, 32.4 3P%, 28.1 USG%, 1.16 PPP

    Again, they are also getting far more frequently switched on to guards because teams have to switch more often than they’d like because Rose is a threat to get to the rim in PNR.

    Do people really believe that we have a good chance at the ECF this year? If we don’t make it this year, will we next year when 4 out of our 5 aging starters are 1 year older? I don’t know how anybody can think that it is a good idea to lock this exact starting lineup in for the next 3 years. Like someone said above, our success will be entirely based on KP’s ability to transform into an incredible player.

    If we sign Derrick Rose for a long-term deal, even for a “reasonable deal” that will frankly never happen with a player of his status, how will we be improving? We are currently a middle-of-the-road team with a chance to improve to a 4-5 seed in the playoffs. While that would be nice for this season, do we want that to be our best case scenario looking into future seasons as everyone else declines and KP improves?

    I’m not arguing that Calderon was a big contributor to NY . He wasn’t. But neither is Rose.

    “Knicks 4th quarter scoring:

    1. Porzingis (5.5 pts, 42.7%)
    2. D-Rose (4.9 pts, 47.7%)
    3. Melo (3.9 pts, 31.7%)
    4. Jennings (3.0 pts, 43.2%)”

    “Derrick Rose already has three games with at least 15 points, 5 assists & 5 rebs- that’s the most by any NY starting PG since J Kidd in 2012”

    Idk….

    the 76ers have a better chance of winning it all several years from now than we do at this stage.

    On paper, more first round draftees is the pathway to success. However, I’m not sure what the evidence is that they’re on schedule to become a contender. The Process was a fascinating argument to watch from a distance, but they have to make concrete decisions on who to extend. Noel is up for an extension at the end of the season. Then Embiid next year. Then Okafor in 2019.

    The only player that’s a no-brainer to extend is Embiid, who looks awesome, but his knees are still a lurking question mark.

    The Sixers FO have to make at least one big trade for Okafor or Noel, and they can’t mess it up. I don’t see the players they have now gelling into a championship contender.

    when 4 out of our 5 aging starters are 1 year older?

    Rose 28
    Lee 31 – easily moveable/Holiday?
    Melo- lifer lol
    KP-22
    Noah -32….KOQ or KP will be starting at some point

    Youth on the bench.

    And I don’t expect the ECF but it’s definitely possible with injury luck

    “Derrick Rose already has three games with at least 15 points, 5 assists & 5 rebs- that’s the most by any NY starting PG since J Kidd in 2012?

    So because we have had shitty point guards for 3 years that means that Derrick Rose is a big contributor? Derrick Rose has played well below an average starting point guard in the league.

    Rose 28
    Lee 31 – easily moveable/Holiday?
    Melo- lifer lol
    KP-22
    Noah -32….KOQ or KP will be starting at some point

    Do you think this team has a chance at ECF going forward without injury luck? I don’t.

    @63 You have this arbitrary “big contributor” which can’t be quantified so you are right. I can’t quantify what it means to you, but to me he’s been a big contributor ….playing much better in the 4th that the 1st 3 quarters.

    @64 doesn’t everyone need injury luck?

    doesn’t everyone need injury luck?

    Some need more than others. We need to be lucky that our own extremely injury prone players are healthy and need injuries for other teams (ex. Lowry, Isiah Thomas, Lebron and Kyrie, Millsap, Kemba, etc.).

    We need Millsap to get injured? The Hawks have been playing like doodoo with him. Atlanta may just not be very good.

    Signing Rose to any long term deal is a fireable offense and supporting such a move automatically revokes any credibility one may have had as an analyst. We’re 10-9. Our pythag is 8-11. Our SRS is 19th in the league. Rose’s WS48 is a whopping 65/101 for qualifying guards. He has played at a level that defenders of the trade would’ve rightfully regarded as disappointing before they started moving the goal posts. I’m happy he’s made the leap from awful to pretty bad, but we aren’t going anywhere near the ECFs this year. Feel free to bookmark this comment. This is the team you want to lock in for the foreseeable future? With three of its main cogs (Noah, Lee, Melo) on the wrong side of 30?

    The one defense of the Rose trade that was semi-reality based was that he had one year left. We were supposed to deal with him for a year and then find the long term solution at point guard. It was still really dumb because we gave away Robin Lopez for one year of the Derrick Rose experience, but whatever. If that turns into more than one year it’ll be very hard to continue following this team. I’m sure I will because I’m a Knicks fan and therefore a masochist, but it would make Phil indistinguishable from our past front offices.

    Rose has been mostly excellent so far this season and is getting better every game. I don’t care what your stats say.

    but we aren’t going anywhere near the ECFs this year. Feel free to bookmark this comment.

    OK!

    Also the main cog is KP. Melo is a co main cog right now but that will diminish every year. Everyone else is a role player. You can’t just keep saying things

    Melo is a co main cog right now but that will diminish every year.

    That’s…kind of my point.

    1. Although Calderon can be useful as a high efficiency shooter on the rare occasion he is given a wide open shot, and a reasonable ball distributor who can occasionally steal a ball desipite is inability to guard a fire hydrant, he is not and clearly was not a starting caliber pg last year. He was a useful player for 10mpg when a defensive matchup permitted. Comparing him to rose is completely meaningless. Like comparing a shot blocking specialist to a 3pt specialist.

    2. Rose is fine for this year. We get to watch some entertaining basketball and his contract is off the books next year. We need Jrue or CP3 next year to compete. Based on what he’s shown so far I’d be fine with Rose next year as a 2 guard in a time share or backup PG at 5mm-7mm per year, but to compete we need Jrue, CP3 or a PG or similar quality. Salary cap won’t permit Rose+CP3/Jrue unless we traded Noah or Lee+Lance.

    DRose is a slasher.A very good one.

    Calderon is only good for flamenco and matador D.

    Sixers are garbage.NBA should fine/ban them for detraction of league’s competition.

    Sixers fans are frozen like Walt Disney.

    “Hack a whoever” and “tanking” are nba’s worst enemies.

    So Whats the plan when Jrue Holiday resigns 0with New Orleans and Cp3 re-ups with the Clippers. I’d be willing to bet both of them come to terms with their team soon as the clock strikes midnight. Would they really take less to come to NY. Their teams have their bird rights and can offer that 5th year. So who else is out there besides those two. Kyle lowry is going to get max money from Toronto.

    So Whats the plan when Jrue Holiday resigns 0with New Orleans and Cp3 re-ups with the Clippers. I’d be willing to bet both of them come to terms with their team soon as the clock strikes midnight. Would they really take less to come to NY. Their teams have their bird rights and can offer that 5th year. So who else is out there besides those two. Kyle lowry is going to get max money from Toronto.

    This is a good question, and the sad answer is that this team was not constructed with a coherent plan in mind. It’s “attract free agents or bust.” You don’t need to know exactly what you’ll do, but you have to leave options open. We have done the exact opposite of that.

    I love watching Giannis. Not having a signature effort but solid nonetheless. Good game with the Nets. Amazing he is only half a year older than KP despite this being his fourth year in the league.

    I’d have a hard time if someone offered me the choice of Giannis or KP. And I’d take a bullet for KP.

    The Knicks have draft choices and moveable contracts in addition to cap space. It’s really not free agency or bust

    DRose is in the 80th percentile in pick and roll scoring, is shooting 55% on drives, 50% in PNR, and 57% on layups, is averaging a career high in percentage of shots at the rim, and is shooting near a career high inside of 3 feet.

    Those are extraordinary numbers.

    Drose is athletically very close to what he was at his peak based on those numbers. He might be missing a few inches off his peak vertical, but he’s finishing at Peak rose rates.

    He’s slowly getting the respect of officials, averaging close to 6 FTA per game in his last 8 after less than 3 his first 11.

    His shot isn’t nearly as flat as it was to start the season, and he’s starting to nail some mid-range.

    For the year, however, he’s shooting only 34 % on jumpers nad continues to be well below both career averages in career lows in all ranges.

    If that comes around, and he keeps driving and finishing like he has ALL year, Rose will approach his career high in TS.

    If we can’t sign a clear upgrade over Rose just hold the money.

    Gamble with young players or a PG with good numbers on smaller minutes.

    At some point a good PG will be available and the cap space will be there.

    Really it’s not that hard to find a PG better than Rose.

    God Giannis is good. Just scary to watch. Hard to imagine what he will look like in his prime.

    Which young point guards, better than Rose, have been available in free agency since the last lockout? Does that actually ever happen?

    It was under my nose the whole time: Brandon Jennings. Not much else than that, though.

    Thibs apparently sees something with the Knicks:

    “Minnesota Timberwolves coach Tom Thibodeau on the Knicks’ triangle offense: “I think they have incorporated more pick and rolls, which makes sense because it fits the personnel. When you look at Derrick Rose and Jennings, (who are) both very good pick and roll players, and Noah- a very unique player – and the things that he can bring to the offense. Carmelo, his ability to play multiple positions, to play pick and roll, to play isolate and catch and shoot…and he doesn’t get enough credit for his playmaking. Courtney (Lee) has been a very good player in the league for a long time, a glue guy. It’s a very talented team.”

    The biggest problem I see with Rose isn’t his efficiency or his athleticism but his passing. He is a PG on a team with 2 high usage scorers who are better at scoring and more efficient than he has ever been. He not only has mediocre vision and passing for a PG, his biggest shortcoming even before his injuries, but he wants to dominate the ball. That’s not changing. Let’s say the dream occurs and he raises his efficiency to 53% TS% and 48% efg% equal to or better then all but his MVP season, he still is taking shots away from players like Carmelo and Porzingis who are much better scorers and stopping the ball. We need a PG whose first instinct is to get his teammates involved. We already have a player in Carmelo that iso’s too much and dominates the ball, now we have a PG who does it too.

    Which young point guards, better than Rose, have been available in free agency since the last lockout? Does that actually ever happen?

    It doesn’t have to be in free agency.

    Kyle Lowry, Eric Bledsoe, Isaiah Thomas were all adquired without any sort of blockbuster trade.

    A late first round pick, movable role players or cap space were enough to get them.

    Some of actually think that you’re getting Hill, CP3 or Jrue. The odds might be 10% or less of that actually happening. I’ll stick with Rose (and Jennings) and wait to develop a young PG on our own whether it be Baker , a future draft pick, Randle or a free agent. Teodosic would get my interest though!

    That’s true MSA. We talked a lot about Lowry here before he became an all star. He’s a classic guy no one had heard of with great college numbers who had been above average in a solid NBA sample. It’s possible to find guys like that.

    Highly unlikely we get CP3 but I don’t think he’ll still be in LA after this year.

    Noah’s contract is so bad it would probably take multiple first round picks for a team to eat that salary.

    Maybe we could convince Philadephia to take him on as a mentor to some of their young guys.

    @90 as I recall it, people were in love with our 2018 pick.

    And let’s remember that if we had Lowry, we almost certainly wouldn’t have Porzingis (i.e. would not have tanked.)

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