Knicks Morning News (2016.12.17)

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony says he will play Saturday in Denver; Rose’s status still uncertain
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 7:26:38 PM)

    Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony told reporters Friday that he will play against the Denver Nuggets on Saturday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Scout: Knicks’ offense lacks creativity
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 6:14:12 PM)

    Despite averaging 104.5 points per game, one scout from an opposing team believes the Knicks could do better offensively, according to Bleacher Report.

  • [SNY Knicks] TheKnicksBlog Podcast: Riding the Roller Coaster
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 4:45:29 PM)

    Anthony Donahue and Moke Hamilton are a bit beat up from this west coast road trip, as the guys discuss the Knicks up-and-down play, the injuries to Melo and Rose, and a tough loss to the Suns.

  • [SNY Knicks] The bench helped undermanned Knicks compete against Warriors
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 1:45:32 PM)

    Without the injured Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose, the Knicks’ bench helped keep them somewhat competitive with Golden State during their eventual 103-90 loss.

  • [SNY Knicks] Without Anthony and Rose, Porzingis had worst game of season
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 11:30:28 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis struggled Thursday night during the Knicks’ loss to the Warriors, shooting just 4 of 13 for eight points.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony on Denver Nuggets game: ‘Must-win’
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 8:29:00 PM)

    Ready for the first “must-win” game of the Knicks’ season?

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony thinks game in Denver is a ‘must-win’ for Knicks
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 9:12:38 PM)

    The difference between a good road swing and a disappointing one comes down to the final game against the Nuggets.

  • [NYTimes] Warriors 103, Knicks 90: Golden State Warriors Take Advantage of Carmelo-Less Knicks
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 7:56:55 AM)

    Anthony, nursing a sore shoulder, said he felt that he should play it safe for Knicks.

  • [NYPost] If Hornacek didn’t get Knicks job, he could’ve worked for Kerr
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 8:52:43 PM)

    DENVER — Jeff Hornacek is the last one to take offense that Golden State coach Steve Kerr ripped his Warriors for only blowing out Hornacek’s Knicks by 13 points after once leading by 25 in the third quarter. Had Phil Jackson not hired him in May, Hornacek, according to sources, would have been Kerr’s assistant…

  • [NYPost] Returning Carmelo: Nuggets game ‘a must-win’ for Knicks
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 4:43:20 PM)

    DENVER — Carmelo Anthony hasn’t had a lot of fun — or success — on return trips to the Mile High City. He has yet to win in Denver since becoming a Knick. The first season — the lockout-shortened 2011-12 season — the Knicks weren’t scheduled in Denver, but he has lost here in each…

  • [NYPost] How Kristaps Porzingis ‘pissed off’ Draymond Green
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 7:35:31 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has Draymond Green’s attention, and that’s not a good thing. Porzingis told The Post on Wednesday he was motivated to step up his game against Green after he was shut down by the Warriors defensive stopper in both meetings against the Knicks last season. Those comments found their way to Green, who used it…

  • [ESPN] Sources: LeBron, CP3 could cash in on new CBA
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 12:42:54 PM)

    Sources: LeBron, CP3 could cash in on new CBA

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    68 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.12.17)”

    1. Then I guess I’m insane, as I thought what D’Antoni did to Marbury was super dickish. You tell the guy, “Okay, you’re not the starter any more. You are going to play behind Chris freakin’ Duhon and Jamal Crawford” and Marbury says okay, shows up all preseason, does the work, performs well in the preseason, doesn’t say a single thing that isn’t just completely “rah rah, go team”, then the day of the first game of the season (heck, I think it was only, like, an hour before game time), you tell Marbury, “Oh, by the way, you won’t be playing tonight or at all for the foreseeable future, just because”?

      That was just douchey by D’Antoni.

      @Brian Cronin – From yesterday.
      At the time, so did most folks. The point is that we don’t know what’s going on between the people. It’s easy for us to guess but what is clear as that there were factors having little to do with basketball were in play. I’m not saying that MD was angelic, but Starbury was more than a handful to deal with. And that was my point.

    2. The Knicks can play Melo off the bench, with the occasional start, and he will soon beg for a trade.

      No, there wouldn’t be consequences other than fixing one of the worst trades in franchise history. The way there were no adverse consequences for exiling and ultimately forcing Marbury out of NY and the NBA.

      I know the team won’t do it (Dolan knows fans value names far more than good play – expect Chris Paul in a Knicks uniform 5 years from now), but that would be the correct way to start the rebuild around Porzingis.

    3. The TNT announcers for the Golden State game said something that surprised me. They said the Knicks have the most rookies on the team of any team in the league (5, Hernengomez, Baker, Ndour, Mindaugas and Plumlee). Those of you who are complaining about how the Knicks are old should take note.

    4. Those of you who are complaining about how the Knicks are old should take note.

      The problem is not the average age of players on the team. The problem is that the main players – the team’s core – are not very good: Melo, Noah, Lee, Rose and Thomas pretty much suck while using up about 80% of the cap.

      Having the most rookies is not by design, but necessity: PJ badly spent the money on junk, so he had to go for ultra-cheap rookies and young players to complete the roster.

    5. I don’t agree at all. It’s true we spend most of our salary on starters, but every team does that. It also true that the dollars paid to every player, don’t correlate well with performance, but that’s also true of most teams, and, in fact is a consequence of the CBA rules and the fact that players are mostly paid for past performance rather than for future performance. We have an over .500 record and aren’t capped out, so I wouldn’t say Phil spent his money on junk. In other words, We’re an average team at the moment, and that’s not junk.

    6. @1 Totally with Brian on this one. He should have let Marbury play himself out of the lineup or let him earn minutes. He was a vindictive, controlling prick.

      @4 Fair point, but with caveats. First, it’s a legit strategy to have a decent team around your young stud so that he doesn’t experience hopelessness year after year. Second, true rebuilds don’t always pan out…Minny, Philly, Cleveland (until LeBron came back, which no other rebuilding team could dream about), Orlando, Sacto have struggled with rebuilding. Third, it’s not easy finding 5 rookies who are possible NBA rotation players when you have no draft picks. Phil has inarguably done a good job at that. So in 3 years, if we add one or two players each year of this caliber, KP is 24, he has several very good young players around him, and we have a bunch of cap space. What’s so wrong with that?

    7. How do you know that having 5 rookies isn’t by design? Are you a mind reader?

    8. It’s true we spend most of our salary on starters, but every team does that.

      Only problem is our starters SUCK…big difference. It’s not only the money they are paid, it’s what the team gets in return snd we are getting very little from our highest-paid players. That’s the difference between good and bad teams. We are bad. Not the worst in the NBA, just bad. As in ‘not vey good’, if that sounds better.

    9. Going back to Baker’s discussion yesterday, when I first saw him play and his unusual body type (more like a running back than a BB player, only one thought came into my mind:

      Sarunas Marciulionis

      They are almost physical clones and have similar playing styles…. good outside shot, etc.

    10. true rebuilds don’t always pan out

      True, but that’s but that’s not a valid excuse for eternally trying our own ‘strategy’ of overpaying older players and have-beens.

      After more than a decade of failure, it’s more than reasonable to think that a true, intelligent rebuild should be considered, with the understanding that failure is always a possibility.

      Not that the idea has any chance, though: fans want a shortcut to the title and that’s why they are always deluding themselves into thinking we are just one big name away from contention.

    11. We have the most rookies in the league but they were picked up largely on the scrap heap, which is at least a bit different from having five rookies who were first rounders or early second rounders

      I’d rather have all of them than not (Willy obviously, and Baker too) but let’s not pretend like 3-4 are in all likelihood gonna be out of the league within two years or so. Still good work by Phil going for the high value low risk play.

    12. The reports on Noel aren’t so hot coming out Philly. Seems like he’s not handling this situation as a professional should. And while he’s a solid role player, Noel’s function on our offense seems minimal.

    13. As long as Phil continues to restock our roster with young talent, I can excuse this overrated core of aging 30+ players who are dependent upon a twenty one year old he drafted with the expectation of being a “project player” to play 34 minutes a game to win.

      But this upcoming drafts are going to be huge. We have some needs we’re going to want to address in the coming seasons as guys like Melo, Rose, and Lee get apparently older. A versatile wing would be nice, a young PG who can play D would be nice, and another 3 and D guard wouldn’t be so bad either.

    14. Well, our starters are thus far able to get us to a tie for third in the EC. The only truly awful deal is Noah. Thomas and Lee are meh, O’Quinn is an absolute steal. Melo is relatively fair value at his price (w/o the no-trade clause, we would certainly get decent return for him.) Rose, Jennings and Holiday are decent stop-gaps. Going forward, much depends on a) KPs development b) the emergence of two or three rotation players from this crop of rookies c) future draft picks and FA pickups.

      Other than the Noah deal (which is nothing to sniff at) the team is in a decent place going forward. If you can’t see that, you are simply arguing from a conclusion.

    15. I still think Melo’s aging is going to present the most difficult obstacle to any reshifting of this team’s roster moving forward. Assuming we still manage to restock major talent the issue becomes one of how to accommodate his aging game and whether or not he wishes to take a lesser role as other younger guys step up. It was a similar problem we faced in the late 1990s when Ewing got older and didn’t want to defer to the younger guys.

    16. Chasson Randle had a great night last night in the D league. 38 points and 9 for 11 on three pointers.

    17. Not a fair criticism of Ewing. He had them in the playoffs every year, and played well until his last year at age 37, when he battled injury. The problem with Ewing was all about management. They should have let his contract expire and used the cap space. Instead, they made one of the worst trades imaginable just to get something back for him. I would prefer we either let Melo expire, or put him in a position where he waives his ntc and make a SMART deal, i.e. no jetsam and flotsam like what we got back for Ewing.

      Glen fucking Rice. Luc fucking Longley. ugh!!!

    18. The problem with Ewing was all about management..

      And who do you think was the one pressuring management to keep Ewing well past his prime? Ewing.

    19. If Melo puts his ego aside he would make a great 6th man PF in his his twilight years.

      If Melo were truly team oriented he would look to how someone like Paul Pierce as model for how to sacrifice as part of a truly talented squad full of scoring options. The 2007-08 year the Celtics traded to get KG his FG attempts went down to 13.7 attempts that year from 18.1 per game the year before.

      Can you imagine Melo taking 13-14 shots a game anywhere down the line? I just can’t.

    20. Other than the Noah deal (which is nothing to sniff at) the team is in a decent place going forward.

      In a “decent” place? Okay, maybe.

      The Knicks have a lot of cap space tied up for several years in decline phase players though. Melo, Noah and Lee will be fighting off Father Time as long as they’re here, and Noah looks like he has already lost the battle. Any more aging-related decline from Melo and you’re looking at a below-average player. If Phil makes the mistake of extending Rose, this team will be locked into mediocrity for a good while.

      This only looks like a “decent” place because we have watched a decade and a half of 32 win teams. A few years of faux contention is not exactly what I had in mind when Phil Jackson came here, but it looks like that’s what we’re going to get. I don’t really see any path forward to true contender status the way this roster is assembled.

    21. I remember those late Ewing years and the trade.
      Ewing was a bit resistant to the focus of the team going away from him being the alpha. I kind of blame that on the fact the team (and everyone else) believed he alone would lead the team to promised land instead of raising him to be a 1A while trying to draft his 1B. They never got him that 1B until it was too late: a reminder that while 2000-2013 was a largely a black hole in team management and talent acquisition, the 80s/90s wasn’t great either.

      That said: trading him for Glenn Rice/Luc Longley/etc was NOT the intended endgame we fans were fed; it was to turn around and trade said flotsam to Atlanta for Motumbo. As most know, David Faulk was agent to both Dikembe and Pat, and we fans were led to believe that the team had an “understanding” with him i/r/t trading Ewing. But when Atlanta didn’t want to deal, well, the rest is history as we know it.

    22. @JK I honestly don’t believe this current roster is the “finished” product. I don’t think Phil sees it that way either.

    23. I don’t think it’s fair to blame the player for bad management decisions. Management can simply say, “Sorry pal, we’re not doing that.” Coaches can simply say “We’re not using you that way.” (if management backs the coach up, like it did when D’Antoni refused to play Marbury. It’s one thing to coddle Jordan or LeBron in their primes. It’s another to coddle Ewing and Kobe in their twilight years. At least Kobe had 5 chips to show, Ewing had nothing, and did not deserve the accommodation of a lousy trade.

    24. A few years of faux contention is not exactly what I had in mind when Phil Jackson came here, but it looks like that’s what we’re going to get.

      Barring a miracle of epic proportions was there any realistic scenario where this team was ever to do anything more than “faux contend” for the next few years?

      Assuming that Golden State and Cleveland weren’t the two superteams with the NBA in their grips for the next two-three years at the least, how was any rebuild we could have undergone in the past three seasons going to produce a better result that the one we’ve seen this year?

      The draft? Well, our 2014 went to Denver because of the Melo trade and our 2016 pick was given away because of the Bargiani trade. While its true we could have picked guys like Jordan Clarkson, Nikola Jokic, we’ve done well. Somehow, we were lucky enough to still pick a generational type talent in 2015 when we selected KP. We have a real potential starting bigman in Willy Hernangomez and maybe someone in Ron Baker could be a serviceable guard off the bench.

      FA? We were bound to overpay for whoever we could get and Durant didn’t want to come over here.

      I get that Phil’s made a shit ton of mistakes, including signing Noah to that ridiculous contract. I just don’t know what miracles people expected to turn. We’re just now beginning to right the ship into a situation where we can at least play some competitive basketball on most game nights while developing a few promising young stars and a future superstar.

      Hopefully, we can add some more promising talent to the roster with smart trades (like Holiday), FA pickups (like O’Quinn and Jennings) and more draft picks so we have something to show potential free agents when KP peaks.

    25. It’s another to coddle Ewing and Kobe in their twilight years. At least Kobe had 5 chips to show, Ewing had nothing, and did not deserve the accommodation of a lousy trade.

      I agree. But that’s the problem we’ll be facing with Melo. My only hope is that neither the fandom nor the Knicks FO feels they have that same attachment to Melo should he present a greater problem than a solution. Ewing was our guy and played for legitimate title shots, he was not a hired merc whose teams have played sub- .500 ball. It should be easier to dispatch of Melo when his contract is up if he’s as run down as we suspect he is. I mean, he’s already getting time off for fatigue/injury a third into the season and he’s not getting younger. Does Dolan really expect Phil to extend his contract when the times comes? Really?

    26. Can you imagine Melo taking 13-14 shots a game anywhere down the line? I just can’t.

      Yes adding two hall of famers is something huh. Dumb ass shit here. Boy I tell ya

    27. Yes adding two hall of famers is something huh. Dumb ass shit here. Boy I tell ya

      Could you imagine him taking 13-14 shots with two HOFers? Shit, he took 10.5 shots on the Olympic team.

    28. “The starters suck”

      Yet the Knicks have 2 20 point scorers a great shot blocker and the number one three point shooter. And Melo. And improved Rose.

    29. Lol stating facts is cherry picking ? I’m out. I can only take the dreck on this site for so long. I’m enjoying this season. Have fun with your pity party

    30. I always laugh when I read people saying Ewing didn’t want to defer to other players in his final years with the Knicks. In his last season he averaged 12.5 FGA/G while Houston took 15.5 and Spree 15.9 FGA/G. He also averaged a bit under 33 mins/g compared to Spree and Houston who averaged 40 and 39 and LJ averaged the same amount of mins as Ewing and Camby, who admittedly shouldv’e played more mins, averaged only 6 mins less per game than Ewing. Regardless of what you think of Ewing as a player one thing you have to admire is that even as a broken down 37yo he played his ass off every single minute he was on the court, especially defensively.

      All this stupid anti-Ewing bullshit I still read all these years later just baffles me. I would think that after all the garbage we’ve been forced to watch since Ewing left he would be much more appreciated than he was when he played here.

    31. @44 I agree BBA, while maybe Ewing could have been a bit less concerned about $, he always played his ass off and deserves better than he got from management and fans.

    32. BBA I think it stems from the story about Ewing being pissed about the offense running through Anthony Mason when Don Nelson came in.

    33. First off, come on, dudes, you know we don’t allow shit to get that personal. I just deleted it for now. Don’t do that stuff again. I think I deleted something else recently, so that is a general statement for everyone. You all know we allow some pretty aggressive arguments here, so this is a pretty good guide of when things have gone too far.

    34. Why do we discuss salaries so much on here anyway? Is this a website for managers or accountants?

    35. The TNT announcers for the Golden State game said something that surprised me. They said the Knicks have the most rookies on the team of any team in the league (5, Hernengomez, Baker, Ndour, Mindaugas and Plumlee). Those of you who are complaining about how the Knicks are old should take note.

      The Knicks are tied for the 18th oldest team in the league with all those rookies. And that’s not even getting into the whole “the core of the team are all veterans” issue.

    36. In his last season he averaged 12.5 FGA/G while Houston took 15.5 and Spree 15.9 FGA/G. He also averaged a bit under 33 mins/g compared to Spree and Houston who averaged 40 and 39 and LJ averaged the same amount of mins as Ewing and Camby, who admittedly shouldv’e played more mins, averaged only 6 mins less per game than Ewing.

      He also was coming off two seasons where he played 26 and 38 games respectively. I doubt he felt he was at a point where he was physically able to shoulder that burden. In order words, it wasn’t an issue up for debate anymore by then. His aging body made the decision.

      We’re talking about the period before the shit hit the fan under Don Nelson.

    37. The Knicks are tied for the 18th oldest team in the league with all those rookies. And that’s not even getting into the whole “the core of the team are all veterans” issue.

      Its why I’ve posited there is a schizophrenic aspect to this team which seems divided largely between a mainly 30+ year old veteran core acquired either via free agency or trade (Noah, Melo, Lee, and Rose) and a younger group of picks and undrafted free agents (KP, Willy, Kuz, Ron).

      Of course, there are guys like Lance, Jennings, and O’Quinn who occupy that space between.
      But I seriously doubt you’ll find a many winning teams in this league playing its rookies and sophomore starters as much time as the Knicks are so far this season.

    38. Regarding D’Antoni and Marbury

      At the time, it was very clear that D’Antoni was trying to change the culture and get rid of “problem personalities”. He wanted nothing to do with Marbury long term, but he was stuck with him short term. Most likely he was going to be traded. What happened though was that Marbury was the good soldier, showed up at camp in shape, played hard, and wasn’t much of a problem. Still, since he wasn’t part of the plan, MDA kept him on the bench. When the injuries came up and MDA turned to him to take the starter’s role, Marbury’s true colors came out. He resented the fact that he was on the bench to begin with and then all hell broke loose.

      You can argue that D’Antoni should have just played him. It’s easier to say that with hindsight. But the Knicks were beginning a total rebuild at that time and MDA did not want to waste a lot of time with Steph at PG when he already knew he was going to be out shortly. Duhon was not “Duhon” yet. He still looked like a decent pass first PG that would fit in that system. In fact, he played well for awhile.

    39. I was watching Ball also and although he has a lot of talent I don’t see a game changer yet.

    40. Still, since he wasn’t part of the plan, MDA kept him on the bench.

      If he wanted to bench Marbury, he could have just benched Marbury. Instead he asked Marbury to do X things (be a reserve, don’t complain, work hard in the preseason) and then when Marbury did everything he asked him to do, he then told him an hour before the first game of the season that despite Marbury doing everything he asked, he was not going to get off the bench unless there were injuries. There is no getting around that being a dick move.

    41. @9…hey bob…I remember sarunas – that dude was a beast…

      yeah, hopefully some day we can roll a “sarunas” type guard out there with plumlee and just beat the hell out of other teams…

      as long as you didn’t have to root for the team sarunas was playing against – he was fun to watch…I can’t remember to many other players that used to look for contact like him…

      I’m pretty sure he couldn’t have cared less about drawing a foul – he just liked to run into people…

    42. We kinda need a win tonight in Denver to get back on track and call this road trip a success. And Denver is a weird team; we can’t let them beat us on the offensive glass.

      That is my incredibly obvious contribution for the evening.

    43. Starbury can still play, maybe PJ should sign him as third PG …
      can you imagine the eruption..

    44. If he wanted to bench Marbury, he could have just benched Marbury. Instead he asked Marbury to do X things (be a reserve, don’t complain, work hard in the preseason) and then when Marbury did everything he asked him to do, he then told him an hour before the first game of the season that despite Marbury doing everything he asked, he was not going to get off the bench unless there were injuries. There is no getting around that being a dick move.

      I don’t see how telling a professional ballplayer to get in shape and work hard in pre season is a promise that the player will get minutes in the regular season. Every coach is going to tell players 1 through 15 to do exactly that in pre season even though only 9-10 will actually be rotation players when the season starts.

      The only reason this was EVER an issue is that a good case could be made that Marbury deserved a rotation spot on the basketball merits.

      But I already explained what I think accounts for that. They were blowing up the team and getting rid of problem personalities. I recall them saying that, though in a more diplomatic and subtle way. The decision was already made by MDA that Marbury was OUT even if he was the best PG on the team. So MDA didn’t want to waste development time using him.

      The only way it could have been handled better would have been for Walsh and D’Antoni (both) to tell Steph privately that he was out and they were looking for trade. But for all we know that actually happened and Marbury resented it (he loved NY and didn’t want to be traded). Then when offered the minutes he said “screw you” because he’s a nitwit.

    45. I don’t see how telling a professional ballplayer to get in shape and work hard in pre season is a promise that the player will get minutes in the regular season. Every coach is going to tell players 1 through 15 to do exactly that in pre season even though only 9-10 will actually be rotation players when the season starts.

      They specifically told him that he was going to play, just not start. Then D’Antoni told him an hour before the first game that, nope, never mind, you’re never going to play. Total jerk move.

      Marbury was a jerk himself later when he refused to play after there were injuries and D’Antoni then said he would be willing to let him play, but come on, the first dick move was all on D’Antoni.

    46. I was watching Ball also and although he has a lot of talent I don’t see a game changer yet.

      Lonzo Ball = meh
      Ron Baker = massive talent

    47. The core of a team should be veterans. It makes good sense.

      The best way to build a team with great upside is to get lots of guys who are in their decline phase.

      #Factorial

    48. I think someone yesterday wondered why Lonzo Ball’s jumper is not ranked that high on draft websites.

      Doesn’t he have a hitch where he brings the ball across his face? Apparently there are concerns that it makes it more blockable.

    49. Yes Ball does have a bad hitch.
      But it’s better than JK47’s bad twitch.

    50. Knickerblogger’s had the same site design since 2004; there’s never been a bad glitch

    51. Worth a watch: this highlight video of the Rockets breaking the NBA regular season record for made threes in a game.

      I’ve never seen an entire team taking heat checks before.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gqwwA3z1OY

      Yeah, that just got ridiculous at the end, when they were just chucking up threes to try to get to 24. Then again, I remember the time that the Knicks specifically tried to keep Dana Barros from extending his “at least one three made per game” record, and I was okay with that at the time, so I guess I have to support this. :)

    52. I was watching Ball also and although he has a lot of talent I don’t see a game changer yet.

      I was watching Ball and because he has a weird shot, I completely discount his 69% rate on two-pointers and 45% on three-pointers. My eyes tell me the truth and the numbers as a goddamn lie, just like on climate change.

      Also the earth is flat and is 6,000 years old.

    53. @BigAl: you posted those shot attempt numbers for Ewing/Spree/Houston… I do remember Ewing bristling at having his role reduced and still believed himself to be a great player at 37 (he was pretty darn good for 37, but still). There was also concerns that, after the team’s run to the ’99 Finals, the team was better as a faster-paced offense that looked awkward when they had to slow down to feed him the ball. I believe we all know now that the team should have better handled his late-career better and smarter despite Ewing’s stubbornness (which I don’t really blame him for given what he had endured in college and the enormous expectations that was placed upon him when he was drafted).

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