Knicks Morning News (2018.07.02)

Re: the Hezonja move — just echoing what was said in the previous thread. This is totally different than the Afflalo/DWill/Lopez signings in that you can’t turn the MLE into assets by taking on bad contracts. There isn’t a ton of upside to this move but hey — if Hezonja is 2016-17 (ie. awful) Hezonja, then he’ll help the tank. If he’s the Hezonja of most of 2017-18 (ie. taking out November and March – FLAME ON Jowles!!) then he’s either an interesting trade piece at the deadline (and when I say interesting, I mean in a relegated European soccer league kind of interesting, like a mid-2nd round pick) or a guy we might consider holding onto.

btw- semi-interestingly, he played a surprising 58% of his minutes last year as the PF per B-R, and if you look at his production by position at 82games he had a PER of 29 when playing the PF (vs PER of 18 given up). 58% of his 1657 minutes (958 minutes) is not that small a sample. I almost feel like that has to be a mistake?

Re-post:
The other thing I really like about this deal is that it’s in the context of having a coach with a strong (although not necessarily well-deserved) reputation for developing young players. One of the most frustrating aspects of the last zillion years is how poorly the Knicks have done in this regard. It’s kinda refreshing to consider that Fizdale is at least theoretically a “Brad Stevens-like” coach in regard to the team we have right now. Ditching Lee, benching Lance, banishing Noah, and losing O’Quinn would make the oldest rotation player on the team Tim Hardaway Jr. at 26, with no pressure to play vets to win meaningless games. And Lee and Lance are consummate pros who even if they remain will be a good influence on the young guys.

From Berman:

The Post reported Sunday afternoon the Knicks had made the offer for a portion of the mid-level so they can strategically use the rest to sign project center Mitchell Robinson, their second-round pick.

That would make a lot of sense.

The best hope for the Knicks is that KP becomes a monster and that a couple of the young players develop into something in the vicinity of max players, or at least get good enough to form a strong trade package for a star once we have some cap room.

@9 No, it’s not.

I like them signing Hezonja, but I wish they weren’t so adamant about 1 year deals to preserve cap space, but I do think some of this bluster about being players in 2019 FA is a dog and pony show to prove to KP and Janis they’re serious about winning ASAP.

If this is the strategy then a key to it has to be that if they DON’T land a max caliber player they don’t just throw their money at lower level players as a result. While it’s not my preferred course of action if they can avoid doing that I won’t be too upset. I still believe the more prudent course of action is to use Kanter, Lance and Ron’s expiring contracts as trade chips to take on bad deals that expire in 2020 for picks and/or young players with promise.

I hope that they can trade Lee rather than stretch him.

Crazy tweet from Zach Kram:

The Western Conference now includes every player who has finished in the top 5 of MVP voting since the Warriors’ first title run (minus free agent Isaiah Thomas).

Also, sign me up right now for a starting 5 of Frank, THj, Knox, Mario and Robinson. That team will lose a TON of games but it could be so fun to watch them develop together…

If the Lakers are really focusing on free agency in 2020 rather than throwing rich assets into a trade for a second star right now, you’d have to think that Kanter for Deng and an asset is a deal they would do?

It’s a big saving for them next summer, much better than stretch-waiving Deng. And Kanter may actually work out ok for them this year?

Depends on the asset.

Re: Hezonja, it’s never a bad idea to acquire potentially productive young players on cheap deals. Even with a on a one year deal, we could trade him at the deadline for something. The problem is this front office seems to have a bizarre aversion to doing that. There is absolutely no reason Kyle O’Quinn shouldn’t have been a Warrior or something down the stretch last season, and it sure seems like we insisted on a first for the Brilliant Courtney Lee Contract just to watch it become so toxic we might have to shed it with an asset.

Between the Hezonja contract and rumors about Robinson, I’m starting to get Phil Jackson circa 2015 offseason vibes. Everything seems geared towards maximizing future cap space with asset collection on the back burner. Needless to say, that would be a ridiculous strategy for a team so god damn far from being a contender that I’m not even sure Kyrie Irving makes us .500.

The Warriors didn’t offer the Knicks their 1st and they didn’t have a 2nd round pick. What exactly should Perry have traded KOQ to the Dubs for in this scenario? This is a franchise that hasn’t traded a 1st since the Iggy deal and have been willing to spend cash on buying picks when able as well. Other than them having interest in KOQ there’s nothing to indicate an offer which made sense for the Knicks was made.

Nice posts yesterday re: Hezonja = talked me into into going from meh to liking it. His defense seems fine, he’s young, he showed shooting progress, Lee has to be gone, no Beasley, and no risk.

There’s at least an outside chance that Free Agent X, Burke, Frank, Hezonja, Knox, KP, Robinson, Timmy, 2019 MLE and 2019#1 is a young, interesting, fun to watch playoff team in 2019-2020.

They are planning on giving Robinson, their potential steal in the 2nd round a one year deal so he can become a free agent?? I mean, why?? He’s bound to the team. If you think he can be good lock him up for 2 + team option, or a 4 year deal for the minimum. Even Phil got that with Willy.

Outside chance of being young, interesting, and fun to watch next year and zero chance of actually being good ever. We need to be talking about punting 2020 and we haven’t even figured out that 2019 is already gone.

i compared it to the afflalo and williams signing mostly because the hezonja deal has near zero upside… targeting him was a good idea but only getting a one year commitment doesn’t do much for the team’s development…

it might’ve been a little harsh since it’s speculative to say that a team option was on the table at all…. but I imagine the other teams were offering something like that and if he wasn’t taking it… that’s reason enough to pass on it …

we are in desperate need for talent… and giving out one year deals for young guys is not really a good approach… it’s a punt… and while this has a low likelihood of biting us in the ass… it eventually will…

One bit of upside of this deal is that if Hezonja improves and then leaves, at least the suggestion is out there that the coaching and environment here is conducive to development.

Even if he wouldn’t accept a team option, I’d rather have just offered him a 2 or 3 year deal than this deal. At least that would have locked him in and allowed him to develop with the rest of the young guys. If he stunk it’s not a big deal because the cap space isn’t vital to us anyway. We’re too far down the win curve to believe that we’re “one big free agent away!”

Nice posts yesterday re: Hezonja = talked me into into going from meh to liking it. His defense seems fine.

Liking Hezonja for his defense is akin to liking Donald Trump for his hairstyle— it used to be the worst thing about him, but now that the bar is so low for everything else, it’s become something people don’t even joke about anymore.

I like that we chose Hezonja over other older options. Hezonja was near the top of players I wanted us to pursue this year, but the one year deal and preserving cap space thing is stupid. I’d feel a lot better about pursuing a free agent if we had Williams, Burke, and Hezonja on deals that went past next summer. That way we could keep our young core and then maybe if the opportunity is right, sign a big free agent.

My worry is that two of Burke, Williams, and Hezonja take steps forward this year and look like long-term rotation pieces and instead of resigning them we are so focused on our big name we string them along and they walk.

Yeah color me skeptical that the warriors were offering ANYTHING for KQ last year. I mean, they might want KQ and might sign him this off season but that does not mean they NEEDED KQ last year. I mean, seriously, if they don’t get KQ this summer do you think they’re going to be freaking out about their chances of winning a title next year? KQ is a luxury for them. They do not need him to win a title and therefore aren’t going to give up anything to trade for him.

We’re acquiring young, athletic players with upside. Its not rocket science.

btw- semi-interestingly, he played a surprising 58% of his minutes last year as the PF per B-R, and if you look at his production by position at 82games he had a PER of 29 when playing the PF (vs PER of 18 given up). 58% of his 1657 minutes (958 minutes) is not that small a sample. I almost feel like that has to be a mistake?

And this is where the “defensive improvement” argument begins. Hezonja has played for two coaches: Skiles and Vogel. Both those guys are defensive coaches that typicallly get players to over-perform in their team defense oriented systems.

Vogel moves Hezonja to the 4 to cover his defensive shortcomings:

“I think playing the 4 where not every single minute he is out there he is chasing a 6-2 guard probably gave him a little bit of confidence to keep his man in front.” -F Vogel (on Hezonja’s “improved” defense)

So, if NY plans to play him at the 4, some of his defensive shortcomings may be masked a bit. But Orlando has some very good defensive players around him last year, in a defensive system that looked to exploit matchups. That’s what kept Hezonja looking like Andrea Bargnani in daily hilarious GIFs in Orlando.

there’s nothing to indicate an offer which made sense for the Knicks was made.

Yeah, there’s a thing here where folks assume if we don’t make a trade or cut an ideal deal that’s just the Knicks fucking up. But if I’m GS there’s no way I trade for KOQ at the deadline. I’ve still got McGee and that’s working well. Better to wait till he’s a free agent than bump up his value giving him a chip before his next contract.

Similarly, there’s no indication Hezonja would have signed anything other than a one year deal. And he’s basically here to fill in for KP during the injury (so no one has to see a ton of Lance at the 4). It’s not ideal, but who the hell knows if ideal was even available. He’s a more interesting signing than Tolliver (who I hope we don’t sign).

Yeah color me skeptical that the warriors were offering ANYTHING for KQ last year. I mean, they might want KQ and might sign him this off season but that does not mean they NEEDED KQ last year.

Begley reported back in January that the Warriors inquired about O’Quinn. So, what, they just called up and said, “Give us O’Quinn for nothing”?

Begley reported back in January that the Warriors inquired about O’Quinn. So, what, they just called up and said, “Give us O’Quinn for nothing”?

They can call up and could have offered up like Patrick McCaw. Would it really be a crime if Perry turned that down?

Any team which traded for KOQ at deadline would have done so knowing he could just walk this summer. So people would have preferred to have a #50-60 2nd round pick instead of:
(1) KOQ’s bird rights (including ability to offer him a large 1-year deal)
(2) Possibility of a KOQ S&T

Sorry but that’s just lunacy; he was our most productive player last year. Plenty of stuff to blame front office but this is not one of them.

Idk what the fuck you’re talking about but it’s not some crazy theory the Knicks are trying to keep the cap clean for 2019. I say this because they have said as much and their focus on only signing guys to 1 year deals speaks to that. No clue what hidden talent you’re talking about, but maybe chill the fuck out.

Lavor, relax, there’s no personal attack here. I was quoting all of us Knicks fans when we try to justify the team’s various nonsensical moves by speculating that there’s some hidden insight/move/strategy at play that would justify their apparent stupidity. My point is that there never is. They’re just dumb and they do dumb things.

But I’m also confused about what you’re saying. In your original post you argued that the team was just blustering about being players in 2019 FA in order to keep Zing and his brother happy. Now you’re saying that they actually are trying to be players in 2019.

Pretty wild fight between Australia and Philippines in FIBA play today

The Philippines players taking a selfie after the brawl was pretty damn bizarre. I’m not a Puritan about emotions during high-level sporting contests, but that was pretty weird.

FIBA should DQ half of the players out there. Pretty ridiculous that security was unable to quash it.

Begley reported back in January that the Warriors inquired about O’Quinn. So, what, they just called up and said, “Give us O’Quinn for nothing”?

I mean if the Knicks ran CarMax wouldn’t you stop by if you were in the neighborhood and ask for a free Wrangler just in case?

Any team which traded for KOQ at deadline would have done so knowing he could just walk this summer. So people would have preferred to have a #50-60 2nd round pick instead of:

It is not obvious at all that this was the best case.
2017-18:
Elfrid Payton was rented by a terrible team for a tryout for the 41st pick.
James Ennis, yes that James Ennis, was rented for a future 2nd round pick.
*Trevor Booker was rented for OUR 2019 2nd round pick which will be a borderline 1st. *

2016-17
PJ Tucker was rented for two 2nd round picks
Bojan Bogdanovic plus taking Nicholson’s salary was rented for a 1st rounder
Kyle Korver was rented for a first round pick

(1) KOQ’s bird rights (including ability to offer him a large 1-year deal)
(2) Possibility of a KOQ S&T

the team trading for him gets this too so it is part of the value you receive for trading an expiring

Sorry but that’s just lunacy; he was our most productive player last year.

this cuts precisely the other way. two more losses and the knicks might have WCJ instead of Kevin Knox.

We finished with the worst record in the league after the trade deadline.

there are always more games to lose. we had a 7 point win against Orlando in Feb where KOQ was +9 in 19 minutes going 6-8 with 3 blocks a 8 boards. even if it wouldn’t have helped enough it certainly would not have hurt.

Neymar is the Kobe Bryant of soccer. Gets one goal, wastes 10 free kicks and countless possession.

Willien is the unsung hero of that team, just dominates the midfield and never makes a bad pass.

There was no reason whatsoever to keep Kyle, so not trading him was pretty dumb. It’s sort of a process thing. A good front office trades him to a contending team for something-an injured young player, a mediocre draft pick, whatever.

A crime? No. But yes it would be stupid to have turned that down, because what we got instead was a worse draft pick and exactly nothing else.

We finished with the worst record in the league after KP went down and after the trade deadline. KOQ didn’t prevent us from sucking since our dumbass HC couldn’t figure out he was much better than Kanter among other stupid decisions he made which aided the tank.

But I’m also confused about what you’re saying. In your original post you argued that the team was just blustering about being players in 2019 FA in order to keep Zing and his brother happy. Now you’re saying that they actually are trying to be players in 2019.

I’m saying that they’re trying to be players in FA in 2019 to appease KP and his brother. I’m very skeptical it will amount to anything more than a big show of nothing. I’m also not certain they’ll be able to resist the urge not to spend money on mediocre players if they strike out on the big fish as I suspect they will.

As a Brazilian who’s pretty fed up with Neymar by now, it feels good to have Willian, Coutinho and Casemiro dominating play like they have been doing. The Kobe comparison is eerily accurate lol.

Every time I’ve watched them in this tournament I’ve wondered how much better they would be if Coutinho were getting Neymar’s chances. He’s done a lot with a little.

I can’t believe I’m on team Optimist for once re: Hezonja. There’s no negative to this with the new lottery rules. This is exactly the type of guy I’d like to watch and take a shot on. This is not like Williams/Affalo/Beasley, because those guys were old enough that we knew who they were and Hezonja won’t be taking playing time from anyone younger.

@61

Burke was pretty good at passing the ball.

Beasley was a 1 year vet min who is unlikely to return.

Mudiay sucks. No debate there.

Knox is an 18 year old that didn’t play organized ball until he was 15 and who showed better rebounding at lower levels before going to Kentucky.

Hezonja is a 1 year flier on a talented young player who struggled to produce effectively on the floor. I’m not sure why this is concerning when it’s pretty obvious they’re not expecting him to be anything special.

Hardaway was signed by Mills before Perry got on board.

Robinson isn’t a high usage, PPG guy and never was and they drafted him. He does have the rep and potential to be a good defender.

Kornet certainly isn’t a big scorer, but may be able to develop into a plus shooting, rim protecting 5. That seems like a fairly solid low risk move.

Willy was terrible on defense, so even if you have an issue with the trade idk that it says much about their appreciation for that side of the ball.

Kyle leaving would be bad and would bother me as well.

Mikal Bridges isn’t a surefire stud and we have no idea how they felt about him. He certainly seemed to be very much in the mix up until the days leading up to the draft.

I really don’t feel very strongly about the Perry led FO either way. I’m happy they seem to care about the draft and are at least saying and doing the right things about development. I don’t like the strategy of being all about 2019 FA, not seemingly wanting KOQ back and potentially stretching Noah. Overall I’m fairly okay with what they’ve done, but still have reservations about the efficacy of the plan they seem to be looking to follow.

I don’t understand why people continue to repeat the commonly held notion that Hezonja is just a one-dimensional scoring-oriented player. The people here pride themselves on being stats-centered, empirically based in their analyses. Yet when one shows them the defensive metrics like DWS, DBPM, or STL% to show otherwise they have nothing to say about it and repeat the same line.

@68

I’m not as gung-ho tank as most people here. I have no problem with trying to get better by accumulating good players on attractive contracts and simultaneously adding players via draft.

If I was GM we never would have signed Hardaway (but I can’t say for sure who we would have signed and for how long because I have no idea who would have said yes), we would have signed Baker for less, still have Willy, wouldn’t have traded for Mudiay, would be keeping O’Quinn now or have traded him for an equal value player of greater need last year, let someone else have Kornet, drafted Mikal Bridges, and tried to add a young defender instead of Hezonja in free agency.

That means of all the things we’ve done in the last year I am happy with Burke and Robinson (and Robinson is an enigma). Some of the other moves are not a disaster. Hezonja is fine in isolation because he’s young, it’s only 1 year, and we are still in a position where most good free agent will say “no”. You still have to put someone on the court. So as long as you do no serious harm that’s fine.

1. Beasley
2. Burke
3. Mudiay
4. Knox
5. Hezonja
6. Hardaway

I think the Beasley/Burke moves are really on the margin — veteran’s minimums where you’re happy if they provide anything. Not sure you can read anything into those.

Hardaway was Mills’s move, not Perry, but he falls into the same category as the others — which yes, is guys that can score, but also guys that are much more athletic than the Calderons/Afflalos/Lopezes of the world that Phil Jackson wanted – the “brainy” players that were smart enough to overcome their lack of athleticism. There is no doubt that the team is waaaaay longer and more athletic than it was 2 years ago. They are banking on tools and the ability of this coaching staff to develop those tools into a player.

Re: Mudiay and Hezonja – when you don’t have a lot of draft assets, you have to look for market inefficiencies in other places. The “second draft” of guys that flamed out in their first location is not a terrible place to look especially at the right price. Mudiay looks like a bad move at this point, and we’ll see about Hezonja. Getting mudiay cost us a draft pick (that could’ve been DeAnthony Melton!), whereas Hezonja really doesn’t cost us anything even if it’s a low upside move.

Yet when one shows them the defensive metrics like DWS, DBPM, or STL% to show otherwise they have nothing to say about it and repeat the same line.

His DRPM was Minus 1.30 placing him 81st out of 93. DWS reflects steals/blocks and the overall defensive strength of the team. DBPM is probably influenced by jump in steals. Was he more aggressive in trying for steals maybe costing buckets when he missed? Perhaps PF is his best position and, much like Melo, he’ll be a better (or not as bad) defender than playing the 3.

I’m not saying all the deals or moves were bad. I am saying they reveal “a pattern” in the type of player they value. They value scorers without enough consideration for scoring efficiency and other attributes. The pattern is becoming more obvious as time passes. Taking Knox over Mikal was further evidence and now going after Hezonja was another player that fits the same pattern. In isolation a couple of the moves were good and others are at least defensible, but taken as a whole I don’t like the pattern.

Crazy how much lottery luck matters in this league.

Cleveland wins the lottery to get Lebron. They mess that up. They win the lottery two more times, once coming from spot #13 or 14 in the Kyrie draft in order to have a chance to have Lebron come back. Just unreal luck.

The Lakers have drafted #2 3x in the last 4 years (moving up twice), managing somehow to keep their 1st round pick until this year when they were already in position to make a big FA splash. With their 2016 1st rounder #2 they take Brandon Ingram, who looks pretty good at this point. Ingram is followed in the draft by Jaylen Brown (widely considered a reach at #3), Bender, Kris Dunn, and Buddy Hield. My guess is they end up with Bender after they passed on KP the year before.

Meanwhile the Knicks have been in the lottery time and time again and haven’t moved up since the very first lottery for Ewing.

btw if Mills and Perry valued pointzzz above all else, my feeling is they would’ve shipped Frank out long ago. Frank is the anti-pointzzz poster child on this team, and has a fair amount of trade value around the league if guys like Howard Beck can be believed.

1) Timmy drops ~22 ppg on good TS and makes All-Star team as a substitute?
2) Kanter averages 20ppg and 11 boards and two 3FGM per game on 40% shooting; makes All Star.
3) KP comes back balling in December, stronger and rested; makes All-Star team.
4) Mario (betting on himself on 1yr deal), Burke (who lit up the league in limited time last year) or Frank (spend entire summer in the gym) could up their offensive game to scoring ~15-18 ppg on good TS.
5) Knox makes all-rookie 2nd team.

1) 3% chance of this happening. The only reason I give it 3% is because there aren’t any good players in the eastern conference anymore.

2) 0%

3) 5% – he apparently had a pure ACL tear without any surrounding damage -one could project he comes back in Nov/Dec depending on how his rehab goes, but as far as these injuries go, his was about as good as it could be.

4) is this all 3 doing that or 1 out of the 3? I think there is basically zero chance of Frank averaging 15-18 PPG this year. Burke could definitely do 15 PPG on an above average TS – he averaged 18/8 with 55 TS as a starter last year. Hezonja I would give a 20% chance of 15-18PPG AND an above average TS.

5) I can easily see Knox making 2nd team all-rookie. He’ll get a lot more opportunity than some other players.

I agree, Strat

I don’t understand why people continue to repeat the commonly held notion that Hezonja is just a one-dimensional scoring-oriented player. The people here pride themselves on being stats-centered, empirically based in their analyses. Yet when one shows them the defensive metrics like DWS, DBPM, or STL% to show otherwise they have nothing to say about it and repeat the same line.

people who pride themselves on being stats-centered know that we still have a hard time summarizing defense from regression stats like DBPM or ad hoc kludges like DWS. I can’t reliably prove that Hezonja isn’t a good defender, so you’ll have to wait and see and let me know what you think. The defensive stats are actually all over the place on him. Stats that incorporate more factors and +/- performance like PIPM and RPM hate him and think he’s a bottom decile defender. he gets caught looking a ton and rarely helps on time or even to the right guy. hezonja may well surprise on offense, but I’m gonna guess by december most here will agree that defense isn’t his strong suit.

Since this is another year where Ws and Ls don’t matter; What are the coaching KPIs:

1) Top half in defensive PPG allowed?
2) Top half in offensive PPG scored?
3) same in rebounding and/or assists?
4) plaing rotations that maximize productivity?
5) play calling in last 5 minutes down the stretch?
6) play calling at the end of quarters?
7) play calling after a time out?
etc..

How is Fizdale judged on this year? What is his bread and butter? What area of the game will Knicks improve on the most because of his influence?

@83

Hahahaha efeito de gravidade, not that different, although I don’t think it’s a thing (yet) for analysts here. We need some ruruland’s urgently.

Don’t get me wrong, I think Neymar is pretty great, but the issue with building a team around a superstar who’s quite not at Ronaldo or Messi level is that it shows when the team is having a down game and he needs to step up. Soccer is so much about that one play deciding a game and he needs to be able to provide it sometimes.

This is not like Williams/Affalo/Beasley, because those guys were old enough that we knew who they were and Hezonja won’t be taking playing time from anyone younger.

Afflalo and Beasley were certainly older. Williams was only 270 days older than Mario is now, though. He still had upside as a player. But not for us, because we signed him to a 1-year deal.

You’re right that Mario won’t be taking playing time from any of our young forwards because we don’t have any besides Knox, who will presumably play plenty. So the downside is low. But there’s really no upside to this deal. It’s just a one-year plug-in on a bad team.

For once it would be nice to see Knick management make a strategically clever move so we don’t have to settle for “Hey, at least it’s not terrible.”

With their 2016 1st rounder #2 they take Brandon Ingram, who looks pretty good at this point.

Still all upside. If you watch his highlight reel, you see why people are excited about him. If you look at his stats, you wonder how a guy that tall and “athletic” is that bad at rebounding (13th on the Lakers in TRB%). The scoring will improve, but whether it’s to .550 TS% or .600, no one knows.

They have not hit a home run with Ingram. Not yet.

Reminder for the truly pathetic junkies that there are televised Summer league games tonight including JJJ and Jevon Carter vs Trae Young and Harry Giles and Bagley for Sacto

Noel to OKC might mean melo is being dumped? Where’s Noel going to play if that’s not the case?

I’m irrationally excited.

Durant needs a sports psychologist if he leaves Golden State to come to NY. I thought the Lakers was a shit choice for LeBron, but man, Durant would be fucked. How do you explain a 35-win season when you’re supposedly the best player on the best team in the league?

Well, I’m all for getting Durant but why the hell would he ever be interested in us? It makes 0 sense in any situation, he has no connection to New York, no family, no relation to the coaches or front office, nothing.

I assume Durant even being a possibility would be contingent on KP making a leap and promising signs from Frank, Knox, Dotson, etc. in the 2nd half of next season, kind of like the Lakers had last year.

Haha, imagine if the Knicks’ recruiting pitch was showing highlights from that Miami game, being like, “Hey, we know you left OKC because Andre Roberson wouldn’t shoot wide open looks, but look at Frank Ntilikina’s upside! They won a game against a shitty, disinterested team at the end of the year!”

hahahahaha, too much Knicks for me

Derrick Favors just got $36m for 2 years. His career per-minute numbers are remarkably similar to KOQ, who will probably get like $5m AAV.

Haha, imagine if the Knicks’ recruiting pitch was showing highlights from that Miami game, being like, “Hey, we know you left OKC because Andre Roberson wouldn’t shoot wide open looks, but look at Frank Ntilikina’s upside! They won a game against a shitty, disinterested team at the end of the year!”
hahahahaha, too much Knicks for me

For someone who criticizes other people’s reading comprehension, your very own leaves much to be desired. The gist was that the team would have to be playing near that level THIS season because KD wouldn’t consider leaving GSW until NEXT summer. Are you able to grasp the timing here or too complex?

It’s also a reason not to tank because a star would rather join a young team that’s playing well versus one that’s putting out Mudiay/Enes. But that would mean re-signing KOQ, not playing Enes or Mudiay or Lance, and a healthy KP returns and plays well.

Kevin Durant will have a max salary of $42,000,000 for 2019-2020. His mega max allowable under the CBA will be $244,000,000 over five years.

That would be for his 31-36 years.

I might be wrong here but isn’t KD’s max if he signs with another team just 35% of the salary cap? So if the cap is estimated to be $108MM then his max waould be ~$37MM?

And aren’t FA contracts (when players change teams) 4 years max?

So he’d be playing his age 31-34 seasons with us. it’s not that bad. beyond that I’m not sure anyone would want to be paying him $40+MM

People are fantasizing about a Durant now? Surely not Kevin Durant, right?

It’s also a reason not to tank because a star would rather join a young team that’s playing well versus one that’s putting out Mudiay/Enes.

Let’s not go here again. LeBron just joined the Lakers.

Durant needs a sports psychologist if he leaves Golden State to come to NY.

I feel like maybe this new generation of superstars thinks a little differently, and maybe they give less fucks about their narrative. LeBron is going to LA because that’s where he wants to live and work. Maybe Durant likes New York and wants to do the same, and doesn’t give a fuck if people think he’s crazy.

Also there’s a personal aspect to it, too. I do think the Warriors are going to break up in either 2019 or 2020. If Durant gets paid there, it’s going to be at one of his teammates’ expense. Klay will probably be overpaid next summer by another team. Iggy will be washed. If it comes down to Durant or Draymond, maybe Durant says: “this was your team, you get paid here, I’ll go get mine somewhere else, it’s been real.”

Randle renounced making him an UFA hm

Lakers just signed Rondo.

Lebron’s in LA. That means bye bye Lonzo.
I sure hope Fizdale doesn’t think he can develop LaVar.

Magic is honestly so bad as a gm but he luck’s out on LeBron bc of clout smh

Magic is honestly so bad as a gm but he luck’s out on LeBron bc of clout smh

The current Lakers regime has done a pretty nice job clearing up their cap situation since they arrived (both the Brooklyn trade to shed Mozgov and the Cavs trade to shed Clarkson look pretty good) and they’ve drafted reasonably but they’re definitely raising some questions about their pro player evaluation with the recent moves. I’m not as dead set on the idea that they should just be trying to maximize the shooting on the roster as some – the Cavs tried that offense and while it largely worked, it demands a ton from Lebron, but the Lakers going completely anti-shooting seems like a really odd choice.

Yeah, I think the Lakers have done a good job clearing out the cap, but yes, they’re generally just doing normal stuff and lucking out on the lottery and, of course, the fact that they’re the Lakers. Still, I think Magic and Rob have done a pretty good job even if Lebron decided not to go there.

The question that confuses me now, though, is where does Randle go? He’s a strong player, but who has the money to even sign him?

If nothing else, the Lakers should be a very entertaining team next year, on several levels. I wonder if they are consulting Lebron on these signings? Sure seems like a possible carny freak show coming in to town.

Lakers are going to have an all-time clown team next year: Rondo, . . . . .

I thought Rondo on the Lakers was a joke. It’s real.
A guy that needs the ball to make things happen, and can’t shoot. How does he fit in?

Lakers are going to have an all-time clown team next year: Rondo, Lance, JaVale, KCP and LaVar. They need to get D-Russ and Nick Young back and start putting together offers for J.R.

They’d get higher ratings than their games doing a reality show of off court stuff.

I am puzzled why team like Lakers can sign Lebron.
I mean, why lakers have a chance to do that but Knicks cant.
Knicks and Lakers are both big market teams and both of the sucks last season.
Just curious why Knicks was never an option.
Is it because of Magic? DOlan?
THoughts?

Durant to NY.
If someone wants to be the savior in NY and Durant can somehow do it, he could be a bigger legend than Lebron.
Frank, KP, Durant.
Pipedream.

I forsee Lonzo being the odd man out of the Lakers equation. We should really look into trading for him. But the problem will be the influence of his father. If we all think Janis will be unreasonable to negotiate a new deal with, imagine the grief LaVar would bring to the bargaining table. He’s not above ransoming Lonzo’s future with a particular NBA team for the greater gain of his family and brand with all sorts of ridiculous stipulations. Even Magic and the Lakers brass has to see that by now. I would feel real uneasy trading major draft capital to get Lonzo knowing that his father would use that trade to ruthlessly leverage their position.

Jowles, seriously, is the weather all that great in Portland? Doesn’t it rain like every other day from November to April? I mean, it ain’t LA. (meanwhile, it was 99 f’n degrees in NYC today, so there’s that.)

Sorry, I’m gonna hold off on the KD speculation until….it’s not speculation?

Sorry, I’m gonna hold off on the KD speculation until….it’s not speculation?

Fine but if you’re the GM and POBO you don’t have that luxury. You have to position the team to take advantage if you believe that Kyrie and KD joining the NYK together is a real possibility. I was just showing that it looks like we could fit both of them into cap next year. The onnly tough part might be sending THJ into another team’s cap but if we attach our 2019 pick that might work.

Note: I’m not sure we’d have the BAE if Knicks choose to operate as an under the cap team in summer 2019.

Just curious why Knicks was never an option.

Because the Knicks are capped out and only have the MLE to offer?

See, I don’t think you go out of your way to position yourself for an event that has a .000001% probability of happening, and even then, it would require paying nearly half of the cap to a 35 year old player. Sure, if you want to clear cap space, collect assets, and assemble a young, competitive team in the event that a bonafide superstar becomes available, whether it’s Durant or Doncic or whoever.

Maybe I just have PTSD from the 2-3 years we set the team up for the LeBron sweepstakes and wound up with Amare instead. But I don’t want to trade a single fucking asset to clear cap space, and I don’t want to stretch anyone so that they’re on the books for 2-3 extra years. Just be patient until 2019-20 and see what happens with this team of kids and the market. Then, when the right moment comes along and you can make a sensible deal, make it.

There has to be something wrong with Noel that we don’t know about that is causing no team to touch him. Just makes no sense what he’s doing.
Ron Baker is making 3x what Noel is, and you’d think he’s be the perfect guy to try in a Clint capela role.

Quick takes:

JJJ with a good touch from 3PT
Young started 0 for 9 with two air balls from 3

Love Summer League 🙂

I’m generally of the opinion that I don’t care about off the court stuff as long as a guy shows up and plays, but whatever Noel has going on in his life it’s preventing him from making a shitload of money.

Who even starts for the new look Lakers? McGee? Lebron and Kuzma at forward and Rondo/Ball as the guards? I’m not sure this makes any sense.

At this time, I think KP will be offered the mini-max or something close to it, I think he will take it, and I think it will be a good thing for the Knicks. Barring a catastrophic injury (not an ACL, something like a back) he will retain his perceived value and there will always be a team willing to trade for him. I would rather risk that than risk losing him if he gets pissed off about not being offered a deal.

OTOH, if KP prefers to wait, that’s a different story. But he’s our prime asset right now and I wouldn’t get too cute with him.

Rondo seems to be kind of a shitty dude, but he also seems to have a very good basketball mind-that’s why I wanted us to sign him to help with Frank last year.

What a bizzare roster the Lakers have.

The Lakers have McGee, Rondo, and Stephenson.

How do they not sign Beasley?

That Randle contract pisses me off. I’m no longer not hating the Hezonja signing.

I think Randle could be a nice complent to KP; he can score inside, rebound, pass.

Sigh

The Rondo thing is weird. It seems like he’s just an intense kind of dude and a bit of a loner so he can be “toxic” in certain situations but also he’s older now. People grow up. It seemed like he did well last year in New Orleans (I’m not talking about stats and shit just how he did with his teammates), so maybe he’s chill out a bit.

Rondo makes Ball being traded more likely, right?

@170

Yeah, I was semi fantasizing about adding Randle all last season but thought it was impossible. At that price, I have to think something could have been worked out somehow.

We are betting the farm on free agency again just like with Walsh. The problem is that to attract quality free agents you have to be good enough for them to think they will make the difference. It can’t look like you are 2-3 years away. But we have 18-19 year olds that are 2-3 years away from being 2-3 years away.

Lakers should start Ball, KCP, Ingram, LBJ and McGee. That’s a pretty good defensive team and they’ll have a decent bench but I’m not sure that’s a 50 win team out west unless Ingram and Ball make some marked improvements.

I love the idea of a player stealing minutes from another player. I mean, are the players given minutes like cash and Mudiay sneaks into the locker room at night and steals Frank’s minutes?

Its not like Mudiay is Jarret Jack or anything. He’s 22 (23?) years old and a former top 10 pick in the draft from not that long ago. If he comes into camp shooting better, finishing better, playing better defense and shows frank up in practice at the PG spot, I have no issues with him getting those minutes.

Wut???????

The Lakers are going to be hot garbage next year, LeBron’s worst team since 2008, possibly 2005. They have to bank on Ingram, Kuzma and/or Ball taking a big leap to become contenders. Ball’s shot is broken, Kuzma is waaaay overrated, and Ingram is still all upside. They’re a solid bet to take the under, provided Vegas sets the line in such a way as to exploit people who think a 34-year-old LeBron can do it alone.

Seems like Magic is going all Isiah on the Lakers. Probably doing a better job of not destroying the team’s future for now (although Randle is a painful loss) but seems to be making deals just to make deals.

Cousins to the warriors 1yr 5.3m

Wtf

boogie

Remember when cp3 wasn’t allowed to go to the Lakers bc of “parity” lmao

The problem is that to attract quality free agents you have to be good enough for them to think they will make the difference. It can’t look like you are 2-3 years away. But we have 18-19 year olds that are 2-3 years away from being 2-3 years away.

LeBron just signed with the Lakers.

i feel like the anti-Warriors blowback might be so strong after their 4-4-4-4 run that KD might actually leave if the rumors are true

They didn’t get a team option for year 2 tho.

Ok, most unexpected move ever. I’m still picking up my jaw from the floor. They will actually just start team USA every game.

I don’t even like Boogie but this is mindboggling. 1 year 5 million might be the most underpaid a player has been on a contract he chose to sign while being good already like ever.

Boogie hasn’t even made THAT much money in his career. I mean $61M is a lot of money to make in your lifetime, but he’s taking a $100M+ risk by signing that 1/5 contract.

To be fair, Cousins’ injury is not associated with full recovery. It’s a very interesting play for him.

Cousins won’t be a factor until late next season since I’m sure he’ll take his sweet time rehabbing. He gets a no-pressure rehab, a ring, and 5m to play with in SF. That’s about as good as you can hope for when coming off what could be a career-altering injury. It won’t be too bad for parity unless he comes back fully healthy, in which case, LOL

Yeah, it’s actually a pretty good move for him. Sign with a team that will make him look insanely good when he’s healthy and ready to go, taking his time to rehab properly.

Damn this might be the most talented team ever simply put.

Boogie really should have signed with the Lakers. Rondo, Lance, JaVale, Cousins – now that would be an all time dysfunctional roster.

LeBron might get a repetitive stress injury from too many eye rolls.

He almost certainly could have earned a lot more than 5 million this year, but he gets to play for a team that has no reason to rush him back and then get a ring at the end of it.

209
You answered your own question, yea he is throwing deals at anyone willing to go for 1 year but seems like everyone is willing to sign for 1 year; so why would he sign malcontents vets!?

Lol, you don’t aerioulsy consider the lakers to be “bonafide contenders” do you ?

Boogie went to the dubs!
Noel went to okc and George re signed.
Houston is still the next best team and then there’s the spurs, Utah, even Dallas/ phx improved a lot!

If they get kwahi they are in the top tier of contenders but still
A ring below especially now they have boogie

Cousins is hot garbage. Dubs were better off with Javale, a guy who knew his role. But Cousins won’t play for a while anyway.

Hey, Durant is aging and Green is slowing down… I don’t think they’re unbeatable.

Cousins is a big “counting stat” guy, so he averages 25 and 12 and looks like a superstar. But he gives a lot of that away by being pretty inefficient for a big, and by turning the ball over a lot. Thing is though, I doubt he’ll be racking up a 35% usage for the Warriors or touching the ball enough to turn it over five times per game.

Lol, you don’t aerioulsy consider the lakers to be “bonafide contenders” do you ?

Try to read more carefully. I said for the WCFs.

@219

Jock Landale had his summer league debut. Other than that, not much!

Also, can we talk about the Yankees’ and Braves’ outfits, which are so bad I almost turned off my MLB stream to listen on the radio?

I don’t think the 2018 Cavs are any better than the 2019 Lakers will be, certainly not on the defensive end. If Kuzma regresses and Ball flatlines, then yeah. But Hill and JR were really bad and the Cav’s bench was horrific.

Assuming he comes back to 80% of the player he was, he’s a steal at what he signed for.

I think this contract suggests that he doesn’t even think 80% is likely this year.

Lonnie Walker had a horrific summer opener (3/16, 2 rbs 3 ast 2 stl) like the kid though and hope he succeeds under Pop.

Anyone notice the Pelicans played better without Cousins than they did with him?

long-time somewhat analytical poster

Nicest thing said about me here!

Remember all of you saying you wouldn’t want Melo even at the league minimum? That’s how I feel about Cousins. He has all the requisite fast-twitch skills but only has half control over them. Actually, he’s more akin to JR Smith than Melo in that regard.

And I’m not talking about any off-court stuff. Just saying that he’s not worth the good defensive rebounding because he’ll shoot you out of games (or just play bad man defense.) I’d certainly take O’Quinn over him, especially with the injury.

And btw I was just in Portland for 10 days. I can’t believe it’s not more of a destination for players with Nike and Adidas based there and tech companies moving in that direction. But the climate also really is ideal (the extra rain makes for some of the best local produce in the world.)

Mr. Jowles really does have it all figured out.

I am no Boogie fan, but I think that was less a Boogie issue and more just a general roster construction issue.

I hate to be that guy but Cousins is a career .115 WS/48 player and that was before his major injury.

I will take a .115 WS48, $5M player on a team that should win 60+ games next season. He’s always been overrated, but you could see his 3PA% upwards of 40% this season. How do you defend against the Dubs offense when your Gobert or Capela or Embiid has to stand 23 feet from the basket to make sure Cousins doesn’t wreck you from deep?

It’s a filthy lineup. Even with predictable age decline from their top guys, they’re going to fuck some shit up in the West.

Hell of a summer league game between LAL and Sacto. Sacto is gonna be terrible but fun to watch.

Cousins is basically going to play the role that Mo Speights played on the 73 win team. The inefficient chucking center. The Warriors love having that character on the team. It’s a little ying to the rest of the team’s yang.

Not many teams, if any, are going to be able to guard the Warriors with Durant and Boogie on the floor (assuming Cousins is close to his former self). Teams had a hard time defending Cousins and Davis, and they didn’t have to help off of Thompson or Curry to do so. If Boogie is anywhere close to his former self and fits in reasonably well with the team, it’s an awesome deal for the Warriors.

I mean, nobody was going to beat the Warriors BEFORE they got Boogie. He’s sort of just a cherry on top of the sundae really. The Rockets got worse, the Cavs fell off the map, the rest of the East is not really close, the Lakers aren’t good enough, and the other up and coming teams are all too far away.

This next season is already in the books.

Someone compared Hezonja at 6.5M $ to Boogie at 5M $+. It’s true, that makes him seem expensive, but compare him to Rondo at 9M $.