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55 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.11.03)”
[ported over from last night’s insomnia thread]
While I have no real regrets about the Mikal trade, because I think he fits this team from the glove, part of the reason the deal was seemingly made was because Leon and his team decided there was no point waiting for a true “star trade” when all the potential targets seemed very firmly entrenched in their various homes. And now Milwaukee is imploding, and there’s a chance Giannis gets moved. And also, that top-4-protected Bucks pick feels like it could be the single best pick we sent Brooklyn in that deal.
But OKC can, as discussed, more easily blow Milwaukee away with a package, and it remains unclear whether Giannis still has bad blood towards the Knicks over how we “mistreated” his brother, and sometimes you just have to go all in instead of waiting.
If Mitch and Precious were fully healthy I don’t think we would be worrying very much about overpaying for Bridges and OG somewhat.
I am just happy we overpaid for two actual ballers rather than overpaying for the kind of player we have in the past.
Zach Edey seems to be fitting in rather nicely.
Bucks – Cavs looked like a great game
I have to say I am truly loving the public demise of Joel Embiid.
I read the article in question that supposedly triggered this, as well as some of the author’s other work. Let’s just say this journalist is more Frank Isola than Howard Beck, to put it mildly. But nothing he wrote was terrible. Joel Embiid is just a bullshit artist, and this journalist has been taking him to take for peddling his bullshit.
He said Embiid has, in the past, mentioned wanting to leave a legacy that his son (named after his late brother) would be proud of. And leaving your team high & dry all the time bc you’re not in shape after taking a $193M extension ain’t that.
IMO attacking a journalist is one of the most egregious offenses a player can commit. It strikes me as beneath going into the stands to confront a fan but above posting a video of yourself carrying a legal firearm (the first time). This needs to be at least a 10 game suspension, and IMO it should be deferred until he actually starts playing.
Owen, like I said, no regrets. I think the fully healthy version of this team will be awesome, and it’s already pretty damn good. It’s just interesting to consider it in the context of the Bucks appearing to implode. Most likely, they get their act together well enough to make the pick something in the teens, and Giannis is appeased enough to stay. But I wonder how Leon would have acted in the summer if he had known this was how the season would begin for Milwaukee.
It would be kind of amusing if Adam Silver made it a one-series postseason suspension, since Joel has said “all that matters is that I play in the postseason”, and that obviously pissed off the league.
I am with you Alan. I don’t think Giannis was happening though.
If OKC decides they want Giannis, Giannis was never happening for us.
If their cheap owner doesn’t want to pull the trigger (very possible), then Giannis probably would have happened for us without all the overpays.
As much as I’m the king of hating our overpays, this one won’t keep me up at night. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, and keeping your powder dry tends to result in your storage exploding.
I still think the Cavs make a lot of sense for Giannis. Garland + Jarrett Allen + unprotected ’31 pick + unprotected swaps in ’30 isn’t as good as the OKC offer but it’s quite good. And then the Bucks can see what the market for Lillard is (which I’m actually curious about myself; do the Heat still want him? Would the Magic take a swing?)
EDIT: the Magic actually make a lot of sense for Giannis, too. Giannis and Paolo… sheesh.
Seems to be a split right down the middle in this Embiid/Reporter situation judging by social media comments. A lot of people think the reporter deserved it.
As for Giannis, I think the Bucks will get to the playoffs. The East right now is not very good. Sixers a mess, Paolo is injured, Pacers have lost two big men to season ending injuries. Teams like the Bulls, Nets will eventually go into the tank..
Also Giannis – Knicks, I doubt the Bucks would trade him here. Besides looking for picks I think they would want blue chip proven young players in any deal which the Knicks didn’t have on the roster. Bucks will ask OKC for Chet in any deal.
Looking at his contract, Giannis has a player option in 2028 so the Bucks could play the season out and start a bidding war in the off season if they can’t fix that roster.
Can’t see Giannis traded till at least the end of the season. Until then, he has to play and sleep in the Dame/Middleton bed he helped make.
Also, Bucks can not go full tank mode due to not owning their any of their picks until 2031. Leon knew this & that’s why he sent that useless (top 4 protected) pick to Brooklyn.
Leon has what Wes Edens will covet in order to continue to build the real estate around the stadium. They need to maintain excitment and economic activity (a playoff team). Bucks will want an All-Star modern big in return for Giannis. Salaries are a perfect match with KAT.
This theory has been debunked and we should probably consider moving away from it after the Toronto & Brooklyn trades.
Re: Giannis. Let’s not, and not even say that we did.
I really really do not like Joel but I am taking his side unequivocally on this one. Complained the day before about the article crossing the line, and the Sixers let the guy in the locker room after a tough loss and then attempts to cover it up. Joel’s a jerk for the shove, the reporter is a jerk for the dead brother legacy comment, but the Sixers are at fault here. Common sense says you remove one or the other from the locker room beforehand.
I think tying in the death of Embiid’s brother to a criticism of his work ethic is hack bullshit and I don’t blame Embiid at all for having a low opinion of the columnist. It was extremely forced, which is very bizarre on the part of the columnist–why the hell are you so desperate to reference such an awful thing?
However I’m never going to take the side of someone who can’t help but turn that into a violent situation, especially as a 7+ foot, ~280 pound guy. Curse him out, highlight that he’s a hack, ask the Sixers to deny him access, etc. There are plenty of options that do not involve shoving or punching him.
The fan who threw a beer at Artest deserved it, as well. But no one let him off the hook for going into the stands.
It would be insane to take Embiid’s side on this.
Zach Edey seems to be fitting in rather nicely.
he’s doing things for sure but it’s still too early to tell how the defense will turn out. the minutes he’s played without a secret santa (jjj) have looked really rough at the rim. he’s very mobile but his reaction time hasn’t been there. again, it’s very early.
I think it’s understandable Embiid would be unhappy to read he’s disgracing the memory of his dead brother by being lazy when Embiid’s probably actually out injured. At the same time he shouldn’t be shoving reporters either. The Sixers not being honest with the public about whatever is wrong with his knee isn’t helping the situation
I wonder what the Bucks could get for Dame right now, he’s off to a good start
Btw the reference to Embiid’s brother & son (which I read last night) has been scrubbed from the original column and is not being quoted widely. Instead people are passing along insidious accounts of the article that make it seem more disgusting than it is.
This is the quote:
My personal take is that it’s fucked up and I can’t believe it got past an editor. But I do think it is important to note that he’s technically referencing Embiid’s public comments (“Joel consistently points…”, “Joel often says…”).
Yeah, I agree Hubert, but I think it’s understandable that Joel is not getting into technical nuances of the writing and is just thinking why the fuck is this guy talking about my brother and my son.
I agree with that but I’d like to see more responsible journalism on the matter. It’s being presented to the public as if the reporter simply said “you’re a disgrace to your son and dead brother” without context.
The journalist deserves whatever punishment is fair for a journalist who wrote something distasteful. But nothing should let Embiid get away with shoving him. If this is anything less than a major suspension, shame on the league.
(And take away his fucking whistle, while you’re at it. My favorite part of the olympics was watching the international refs basically laugh at him for his theatrical foul baiting attempts.)
Can’t have 7footers putting their hands on normal sized people even when they say something that touches a nerve. Parsing the guy’s sentences is a little beside the point
Yeah, idk how that got published, and the writer should be glad he only got a push from it, especially if he was lurking around the locker room.
And I’m not even saying he’s a bad guy, he just made a mistake, and Embiid made a mistake by pushing him but fortunately didn’t go any further than that.
It’s hilarious that the Sixers steadfastly refused to say Embiid was “injured” on opening night, yet we’re 5 games into the season, they’re floundering, and he’s still not playing. Hell of a “ramp up” period!
Re: irresponsible journalism…
Right now the ESPN headline reads:
The article quotes everything Embiid has to say and entirely omits what the writer wrote, allowing Embiid’s emotional interpretation of the story stand as the version of record.
And by putting “dead brother” in quotes before the word barb, they are intentionally obfuscating the truth to help confirm that interpretation for the reader. (The reporter never said “dead brother”; they’re actually quoting Embiid.)
This is why there’s mixed reactions instead of universal condemnation. The media is carrying Embiid’s water again, just like they did after game 3.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/42159993/joel-embiid-confronts-shoves-philadelphia-columnist
No fan of Joel — at all — but you don’t bring people’s family into things, unless it’s to say something nice (e.g., iHart’s paramour). That’s how people used to get shot (or stabbed through the heart if you go back a bit further).
But you also don’t lay hands on people, whether seven feet or five foot five.
Then again it’s Joel’s MO to physically accost others (see Mitch), so while it’s entirely inappropriate, it’s perhaps not surprising.
And by putting “dead brother” in quotes before the word barb, they are intentionally obfuscating the truth to help confirm that interpretation for the reader. (The reporter never said “dead brother”; they’re actually quoting Embiid.)
Arthur is Joel’s dead brother and son’s name. The reporter refers to Arthur in this context. If it were me, I’d be more peeved if the reporter used his name rather than dead brother and son TBH. Unless the reporter was on first names with both…
Not much to say about the Embiid situation that hasn’t already been said. Odd/bad reportage doesn’t justify assault/battery. He’s a great basketball player but he’s also a hack.
I watched Zach Edey get cooked by 57-year-old Kyle Lowry last night. He’s definitely still a work-in-progress.
What’s the point of being 7’1”, 280lbs if you can’t use it to beat up people you don’t like?
I don’t recall “Chris Rock deserved to be slapped on the Oscars stage” being as trendy as proclaiming this journalist had it coming.
The Knicks pushed to complete that trade when they did because all the cap gymnastics Brock Aller pulled off would have been impossible to do once the season started. It’s reassuring to know some our rivals don’t understand that.
Glad you said that. 100% facts but he should have done it in private. Embiid has both size an FU money. After the physical punishment, write the check, have him sign an NDA and tell him to keep his family’s business out his mouth. That will leave a private legacy with his son that he will never forget. But Embiid is not that dude. He’s a emotional coward and a bully, both on and off the court.
Embiid is a public figure. If it is true he has invoked his son’s birth as in positive inflection point, he has opened the door. Was it tasteless, sure… out of bounds, no.
It is clear some sportswriters are pissed at the BS they are getting from Embiid and the team obstructing them from doing their job by treating them like mushrooms. So the writer retaliated by pushing the envelop. So be it. Tasteless, but within his rights.
Embiid must be sanctioned severely for putting hands on a civilian.
However I’m never going to take the side of someone who can’t help but turn that into a violent situation, especially as a 7+ foot,
Noble, so if someone is 7 foot (or just stronger in some obvious way) what has that got to do with it. The reporter was not injured, according to reports, so the 7 foot issue does not apply.
Sorry to belabour the point, but if you have lost someone you loved deeply (as many of has including me but that was ages ago), when someone brings him or her up later, on a first name basis that didn’t know him or her, you’re allowed a shove when they decide to confront you. That is what happened in the locker room.
Embiid is a punk and that was a punk move.
If he deeply felt violated, he should have met with reporter 1v1 and made his point. 9/10 times the other man apologizes and beef is squashed.
No. You. Are. Not.
ESPECIALLY when he didn’t say anything in the least bit bad about the son or brother.
Embiid does not get to sensor sportswriters.
Director, sorta my point. Why did the Sixers let’ it get to the locker room. They had a days warning that there was an issue.
ESPECIALLY when he didn’t say anything in the least bit bad about the son or brother
What has that got to do with it? It’s their legacy that is the issue. Suggest you read the article and then post.
Agreed, employer could have handled it a little better too but at the end of the day, it’s still his punk move. Embiid is ultimately only one accountable for his own emoptional hissy fits.
He did try to apologize:
There’s nothing to this other than Embiid is a punk who had an unhinged response to something that made him unhappy. It’s the same as him pulling down Mitchell Robinson bc he was unhappy with the way the refs were calling the game.
I think I made my feelings about the columnist’s conduct pretty clear. It was bad, unethical writing. I’d have absolutely no problem with Embiid reacting to it as such.
However, I do not believe there should be a “bad, unethical writing” exception to the myriad statutes on the books that prohibit unwanted physical contact. Embiid being as big and strong as he is adds to the risks of such contact in obvious ways, and the fact that nothing really came of it doesn’t change any of that. If Embiid did the exact same thing, but this time the reporter fell, hit his head, and suffered a serious traumatic brain injury, the ethics of Embiid’s actions wouldn’t be any different.
Hubert, I had no idea. In that case, you’re 100% right…He’s a punk and his legacy will be that he’s a punk. The league and the media will not always be there to spin his emotional hissy fits…
It’s not your fault. I had to dig pretty deep to find that info and only came across it on a local Philly news outlet:
https://www.phillyvoice.com/joel-embiid-marcus-hayes-sixers-locker-room-altercation-columnist-nba-investigation/
The media is basically acting as Joel’s PR team here, just like they did in the playoffs when he tried to injure everyone on the Knicks and got away with it.
Suspend this bitch already, and stop giving him 18 free throws a game while you’re at it.
I remember Deon getting handsy with tim mccarver…an uncomfortable sight…
the whole say what you want with impunity doesn’t always sit well with me though…
like some folks heedlessly walking through a busy crosswalk thinking that just because they have the right away, ain’t nobody going to run them down…
so yeah, you can say what you want, but, someone still might attack you though…
poor tyrese maxey deserves better…
Interesting thread. Didn’t realize the journalist tried to apologize. That’s bush league from Joel.
I don’t find the Embiid incident to be all that serious. I think that both the circumstances and the nature of the contact absolutely matter, and it seems like it was pretty limited. I’m expecting a heavy fine, short suspension, a public apology by both parties, and a lawsuit that is either quickly settled or dismissed. If any criminal charges ensue I’d be pretty surprised. This seems like more of a thing that both sides (as well as the NBA and the paper) will want to put behind them.
Athletes only get punished for assault if TMZ finds the tape.
I don’t want to defend either the sports writer or Embiid, but if Embiid is feeling feisty I might be willing to quietly pay him to beat up a few political journalists and reporters for much worse behavior. 😉
Why are people in the press talking about trading Towns for Giannis? Regardless of whether something like that would make sense or not, Towns just got here, he’s playing great and imo deserves some love from NY fans until we actually have a reason to be unhappy. He’s not a one night stand. He’s a Knick and a damn good one.
I think those Giannis murmurs are just predictable speculation based on the Bucks getting off to such a terrible start.
think those Giannis murmurs are just predictable speculation based on the Bucks getting off to such a terrible start.
100% facts. Spot on. Giannis is a super loyal guy who won’t ask out easily. Nothing is happening this year. Come summer time after a first round exit, then it becomes a small possibility. Plus, it’s very difficult to make a MVP level trade today & Leon positioned us to be a market player. That’s all.
I have to say that even though the sportswriter shouldn’t have published that, he was probably just writing what a lot of Philadelphia fans were thinking. And the team didn’t help public opinion be positive by giving no reason why Embiid isn’t playing, so fans should be expected to think that.
Detroit fans are happy they got their second win and are no longer at the bottom of the East. Philadelphia and Milwaukee are behind them. That may not last, but they are tied with the Raptors and close to the Hornets in the standings too. Maybe the loss to the Knicks kind of woke up the players and they are playing better now.
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