[news.google.com] — Tuesday, June 20, 2023 5:08:28 AM
NBA player: ‘Watch out’ for Knicks in Chris Paul sweepstakes Hoops Hype
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, June 20, 2023 12:04:27 AM
Watch: Julius Randle Gives Update on Injury, Future with Knicks and … Nation of Blue
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 11:14:00 PM
Knicks: Julius Randle drops truth bomb on Jalen Brunson’s impact … ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 9:16:00 PM
Knicks Trade Target’s Price Tag Revealed Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 9:14:00 PM
Julius Randle believes Knicks are ‘not that far off’ after Heat Finals run New York Post
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 8:01:23 PM
How Close Were Knicks to Trading For Bradley Beal? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 6:20:39 PM
“We didn’t say, ‘Oh, we gotta play harder against the Bulls'” – Anthony Mason reflects on the 90s Knicks’ physicality and toughness Basketball Network
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 5:57:25 PM
Knicks Rumors: Knicks Listed as Potential Landing Spot for All-Star Forward Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 4:49:11 PM
Why don’t the Knicks have a first-round pick in the 2023 NBA draft? AS USA
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 4:44:51 PM
Proposed Knicks Trade Swaps Julius Randle for $194 Million All-Star msnNOW
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 4:44:18 PM
Stephen A. Smith Calls For Knicks to Fire Thibodeau, Hire Ty Lue Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 4:30:16 PM
NBA Rumors: Knicks may be on the verge of massive trade after latest intel Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 4:30:00 PM
Jason Reed Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 3:47:23 PM
Obi Toppin is worth monitoring during trade season; and is a … New York Daily News
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 3:40:35 PM
Should the Knicks try to trade for Zion Williamson? Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 3:37:12 PM
Knicks Rumors: Trade Idea Sends Zion Williamson to New York Heavy.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 2:41:00 PM
Knicks were ‘in heavy’ on Bradley Beal before Suns-Wizards trade New York Post ‘No 1st Rounder?’: Knicks’ Josh Hart Comments on Bradley Beal Trade Sports IllustratedKnicks: Josh Hart’s stunned reaction to Bradley Beal-Suns trade ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 2:16:57 PM
Knicks City Dancers Auditions NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 2:10:48 PM
How the Bradley Beal trade might affect the Knicks’ trove of protected first-round picks Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 1:34:00 PM
BT: Knicks should show interest in signing Draymond Green WFAN
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 12:51:38 PM
Knicks Trade Idea: Send Randle Back to NOLA for Zion Williamson? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 12:12:00 PM
Liberty 89, Mercury 71: “World-class?” The Strickland
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 11:13:28 AM
Notable Undrafted Players in Knicks History The Knicks WallKnicks worked out Isaiah Sanders Posting and Toasting3 Former Knicks that the team should consider trading for this offseason Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 10:21:02 AM
Knicks Rumored Interest in Naz Reid Could Mean Major NBA Trade Is Coming Bleacher Report
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 10:20:50 AM
Knicks have ‘hope’ they can land superstar center this off-season Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 10:14:09 AM
Knicks’ Complete Free-Agency Preview and Predictions Before 2023 NBA Draft Bleacher Report
[news.google.com] — Monday, June 19, 2023 8:00:26 AM
Ranking the New York Knicks’ top 11 trade assets Daily KnicksKnicks Must Sign or Trade for ‘Sniper’ This Offseason Sports IllustratedKnicks’ Complete Free-Agency Preview and Predictions Before 2023 NBA Draft Bleacher Report
62 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.06.20)”
Google being Google a recruitment notice for the Knicks city dancers made it into the list of links above. The job is a full time job with benefits paying $85,000 a year. But you don’t just rehearse and dance during the season, you are expected to represent the Knicks in some ways (attending outside functions and such) and to maintain a social media presence as a Knicks representative. It’s confusing about the time commitment. In some places it says “during the season” but then in parentheses it say (July to June）, implying a year round commitment. I thought the salary was pretty good for what’s probably a low paid profession, but if you don’t gave time to do anything else, I’m not sure. My wife thinks it’s lousy, but she was also thinking of the huge salaries NBA players get. What does the hive mind think?
Hard to live on that much in NYC. I imagine the hours are good though. The devil is probably in the details. What’s the work culture like at MSG? I shudder to think…
Supply and demand, I guess.
I wonder how Jokic’s success in the playoffs will play out in the copycat league that is the NBA. Will teams see it as a unique and unreplicable situation based on a player who cannot be copied, or will teams start coaching their bigs differently?
I ask this mainly in the context of whether or not Hartenstein will work on aspects of his game that are conducive to that kind of offense, including his iso skills, and whether Obi can be an analog for Aaron Gordon in the cutting game. But it applies to other situations as well. There are a number of bigs around the league who are pretty good passers when they want to be and have the right players and system around them.
Obi’s a very good cutter, and iHart is a very good passer to cutters. The problem is that our offense does not utilize cutting very often, so we’re not optimizing those particular skills.
Meanwhile, catching up on various news and rumors:
* Portland has basically said it’s up to Dame whether he stays or goes. I wonder if they are trying to pull a reverse Costanza, making things so clearly ill-suite to him that he’ll beg to be traded.
* Chicago is, depending on who you talk to, either asking for the sun and the moon for LaVine, or eager to give him away for salary relief
* Toronto has no interest in stripping the roster for parts, and wants to keep OG
* Bill Simmons’s sources have told him that Zion will not be on the Pelicans by the time the draft ends
Make of all of this what you will. It sounds like Miami will be the prohibitive Dame favorite if he asks out. And if OG is really off the table, as opposed to Masai posturing for a blockbuster deal, then who is our best 3-and-D option at the wing?
The Portland situation is fascinating. Dame spent his whole career there. They largely wasted him but he committed to them the entire time. Now they finally have the ability to put a team around him that can win and they’re not gonna do it. Do they owe the guy anything? Or is that what the money was for?
I wonder if Miami is a stealth contender for Zion…maybe Riley thinks he’s easily fixable and would be a great “buy low” candidate…
Yes, that’s exactly my point….I wonder whether Thibs (or someone else in the organization) will take notice and try to copy some of what Denver did to get over the top…
I watched the entire Julius interview with PG…
Positives:
Julius spoke fondly about how great it was in NO to be playing with AD, who made the game so easy for him, and about how difficult the transition was to being the #1 option who was game-planned for. He said that Brunson made things much easier for him. It sounded like he would really welcome another star.
He loves Thibs because he feels like he frames everything in terms of winning, and he is always working and studying.
He loves playing at MSG and feels like the accountability of the fans, press, etc. has made him a better player. He took full accountability for the thumbs down thing.
He feels like the limitations after surgery is giving him time to study film in a way that he hasn’t done in the past.
He talked about the importance of becoming more “efficient.”
Negatives:
Sounds like he has not really studied film in the past in a way that would suggest a longstanding dedication to doing “anything” to improve…it felt like a bit of a contradiction.
He claimed to lead by example, but never seemed to acknowledge that he often sets a negative example by whining to refs, dogging it on D, making selfish plays.
Overall, I was left feeling slightly positive about what he had to say, meaning that he seems like he would willingly accept a lesser role if a(nother) star was acquired.
seems like if you take the portland situation along with the OG situation together… it means jerami grant would likely be available and a target … probably for cheap too…. i would not like it since it’s very much adjacent to the josh hart deal when you give up picks for the right to overpay soso players… but it’d probably be pretty popular…. i would like it better as a rental but i would still rate it as terrible….
I don’t think Grant is a solution at the 3
If it’s not Josh Hart then we probably shouldn’t pay him like it is.
Assuming we do pay him, though, we’ll have to find the solution in the bargain bin. That’s why I mentioned Avdija yesterday. We can’t keep paying sticker price for every supporting player on the team.
https://sports.yahoo.com/portland-is-determined-to-improve-around-damian-lillard-and-holds-interest-in-bam-adebayo-145358329.html
Hartenstein lacks the handle necessary to move to a desired spot to consistently innitiate offensive sets. Sure, he can pass to cutters at a low usage and we should utilize this a little more but let’s not confuse him with the best player in the world.
The annoying thing with Hartenstein is that our ball carriers are scorers first and don’t maximize high percentage lob passes, bounce pass drop offs at the rim or hit him for his 60% floater. If he or even Mitch played with Halliburton or CP3 type, they would contribute a lot more to winning a than they already do. Think what CP3 did for Deandre Jordan’s career.
i’m a bit mystified with people calling this a 3 person draft…. but i guess some folks really really liked jabari smith too….
brandon miller is a bit of a landmine… and there might be some banchero bits in there to make it seem like its worth it but ultimately hes too jump shot oriented to be considered in the class of scoot… and scoot’s not without warts either but getting to the basket is a requirement to be elite and miller hasn’t shown anything remotely capable of doing that at the collegiate level…. and then there’s the whole gun thing which is a whole other can of worms that i’m not sure why any team would think THIS guy is worth THAT gamble…. for ja morant even knowing about his personality you probably would still roll the dice on him.. but for brandon miller? he’s not that guy….
Miller appears to have finished 3rd in the NCAA in BPM behind Trayce Jackson-Davis and Edey.
That seems good? I don’t know much about Miller but when I watched him he seemed like a livewire and he was definitely productive in his debut.
Knicks City Dancers seems like a solid gig. 85K with time for side gigs and you get a lot of exposure. I don’t know, doesn’t sound terrible. I feel like for people who love to dance it’s very hard to find a professional outlet and this seems like a decent way to go for a while.
“Hartenstein lacks the handle necessary to move to a desired spot to consistently innitiate offensive sets. Sure, he can pass to cutters at a low usage and we should utilize this a little more but let’s not confuse him with the best player in the world.”
This is all true. My question is really about what iHart can add to his game with practice and with a coaching commitment to at least try some new stuff. That’s my main wondering…whether our organization learned anything about such possibilities from these playoffs.
More importantly, I still see iHart as an unfinished product. His role has changed nearly every year he’s been in the league, and pretty dramatically this year. He came in with a nagging achilles injury and with a coach who largely insisted on iHart playing more like a Mitch clone and less like a poor man’s Jokic, or alternatively, Sabonis. In his prior two stops, he averaged a 19% usage, but this year was down to 11%. His AST% with the Clips was 20.5%, with us it dropped to 8.35.
It would be great if someone within the organization strongly pushed for more of a “iHart-friendly” offense (and WWW is probably the one to harp on it since he already has expressed concerns with Thibs’ coaching) and if iHart worked tirelessly on refining the required skills. Probably won’t happen, but I’d like to see it.
just looking at bpm is not a great forward looking indicator… it’s great at telling you what happened but not what will happen… and that’s generally because it’s weighing things like 3pt shooting and de-emphasizing the steals and blocks relative to how important they are going forward….
miller isn’t a terrible prospect… and with the 4 position in as much flux as it has been he can make it in a variety of ways… but in order to be elite he needs to get to the basket… and he just wasn’t good at all doing that and he’s going to have a tough time adjusting if he’s relying on pull up jumpers…
if he gets somewhere where he’s playing off the ball then i see him doing pretty well but #3 picks don’t really go to places that let you do that….
NCAA BPM often just rewards guys beating up on younger competition and/or hitting a bunch of 3s that won’t necessarily be there in the NBA. The leaderboards will capture can’t miss types like Zion and AD, but will also be chock full of fringe/non-NBA players like Tshiebwe.
As always I’ll post my full big board in advance of the draft, but I have neither Miller nor Scoot in my top 3. Miller’s finishing numbers are too dicey for someone his size, and I’m not sure Scoot will be good enough to justify his heliocentrism. I find the draft pretty underwhelming after Wemby, but I am a true believer in Wemby.
Just finished Randle PG podcast. Very interesting.
Think PG at this time in his career is an ideal fit as a two way veteran player who at least seems willing to sacrifice shots for winning. I would be OK with going all in this summer with these three moves.
1) IQ, Rose, Fournier, 2-3FRPs for LaVine.
2) RJ, I-Hart and 1-2FRPs for Paul George.
3) Sign Naz
Starting five of Brunson, LaVine, PG, Randle and Mitch with a bench of Grimes, Hart, Obi, Naz and Deuce is both a multiyear contender and deep enough to overcome significant injury or other setbacks.
i am shocked about Scoot… very interested in seeing it…
Scoot i probably have around Fultz territory and that’s meant as a compliment… we don’t have great results coming out of the gleague as of yet…. but the numbers there suggests he’s better than anyone we’ve seen there so far… and could be a day 1 solid contributor….
i have been catching up on the draft since the season ended…. i do actually like it better than i did initially…. there’s a bunch of guys where things could go either way and depending on how that goes it could be really good….
generally it’s just an ok draft but it has some striking similarities to 2002 headlined by a really tall international big and some mystery… and likely overrated talent… littered about….
Can you raise a family of 4 in NYC on 85K? Nope. But if you’re in your early 20s, 85k for a not quite full time job? You could have fun in NYC with that salary.
Completely uneducated hot take. Miller’s J does not look NBA ready. He shot puts it out in front of his body and it negates his length. It does not look quick either.
Gary Trent Jr. opted into his Raptors deal for next year, which is something of a surprise.
I googled freshman who finished top 3 in BPM and the only guys to do it in the last 10 years are KAT, Zion, Mobley, and Chet. Not sure if reddit has that right but it seems like Miller is, whatever you think about him, in some pretty elite statistical company.
It does look like he is a little older than your typical freshman, he is already 20, so perhaps that downgrades it a bit.
And here’s a lengthy Athletic article from the Pelicans beat reporter about the frayed state of the relationship between the team and Zion, albeit one where his sources suggest a Zion deal this week is unlikely:
https://theathletic.com/4624176/2023/06/20/zion-williamson-trade-rumors-pelicans/
Kuzma opted out. He’s not a fit here at all unless Randle gets traded for a wing.
When it comes to NCAA BPM, the way it was accumulated matters a ton. Some stats translate really well to the NBA (or at least are decently predictive of NBA success generally) e.g. 2PT% and STL%while others e.g. 3PT% are a lot murkier. Ideally you want a guy who racked up a high BPM by doing the stuff that translates well.
Miller racked up his BPM largely by hitting a bunch of threes. That obviously bodes well for his NBA shooting prowess but not much else.
I think he’ll be a good player because his shooting touch at that size is always going to be valuable and his body lends itself well to switchability defensively, but I don’t think he’ll ever be the top option on a good team.
I’ve kinda always assumed this was the case as soon as they spent resources acquiring Poeltl, unfortunately.
He’s probably getting paid. We won’t be able to afford him absent a S&T. Wouldn’t be surprised if Washington re-signs him just to hold him for a trade.
I usually go by age instead of year. Experience has some meaning to me, but physical development is such an overwhelming factor for those guys.
I don’t always agree with djphan, but I almost always agree with his draft takes.
I am also wary of Miller, and not just for his off-court stuff. He was effectively shut down in the tourney, and doesn’t have the athletic upside the Thompson twins or Whitmore have. He has great size and can shoot, but I would not put him above Scoot or even Amen.
It sucks that we won’t be getting any of these guys, but that’s the problem with winning I guess.
Meanwhile, Popper is saying we will definitely move on from Obi this offseason. I’m sort of bummed as I grew to really like him, but I do think he’d have a better career somewhere else and want the best for him.
yea bpm isn’t so terrible once you account for age… it’s a good starting point and it will capture some pretty obviously good players because obviously good players will have obviously good box score metrics…. but it does have it’s blindspots… mainly guys who tend to hack efficiency…. and one of those archetypes is the lonzo ball effect…
lonzo ball at ucla was a bpm monster and he did it because he got hot from 3 and hardly ventured into the paint except in transition…. that resulted in some pretty crazy efficiency numbers…. that along with his secondary skills portrayed him as one of the best prospects of all-time….
he certainly was not that…. altho he was a pretty fine prospect in his own right due to his secondary skills.. he was just not the hidden scorer that bpm suggested.. his shooting %s predictably collapsed once he got to the pro’s…..
brandon miller is not exactly like lonzo ball… he shoots better at the line… he can shoot pullups and does that a whole lot… but some other numbers suggest he has a similar problem finishing at the rim in the half court as he is one of the worst in this class…. and that leads to a less than ideal 3par… he’s pretty unique in that even in college where a player should have his way with lesser players that he chooses to get most of his points from the 3pt line…. it’s going to get even more exaggerated once he gets to the pro’s and that doesn’t bode well for his future….
i think he’s pretty similar to cam johnson.. and cam johnson’s not bad … and there’s a whole lot of players in that ‘fine role player’ class in this draft… it’s just if you’re asking him to carry an offensive load.. that might be pretty difficult if he’s just jacking up 3s and not much else…. and if cam johnson viewed himself as more than cam johnson maybe he’s not that good either….
Brandon Miller will almost be 21 on opening day. He’s even older than I thought.
For perspective, Jalen Duren is a whole year younger than Miller after playing in the NBA this season. (Although he was an extreme case going the other way).
I am not making any claim about Miller other than that he seems a decent prospect and worthy of a top five pick. I certainly am not betting on him being a star.
But in a thin draft Miller seems like a decent bet.
I haven’t put in the research this year, and I do like Miller quite a bit, I just have Scoot ahead of him.
Markannen is probably the optimistic comp for Miller, which is a pretty damn good player.
I’d put the Thompson twins up with Miller but there’s a much bigger risk/reward with their shooting.
the thompson twins are in the same boat age wise as miller… i wonder when they’ll be able to pass 22 yo’s as freshmen and people won’t realize…
cam whitmore fwiw is still 18… and won’t be 19 until next month….
Miller is solidly in my top 5 and I think Cam Johnson is a pretty good comp. Very nice player, but you’d be disappointed if you tanked hard or traded up aggressively for him.
My Thompson twins ranking will probably be the lowest you’ll see them ranked anywhere. They’ve definitely got the talent to make me look very stupid down the road, but I don’t know what else to do with 20 year-olds playing against high schoolers. Their numbers are fine, but my instinct is they should be putting up, like, Wilt numbers if they’re as good as people think.
This, unfortunately, is where I’m at. I still hold out hope that, if placed in a better situation, he will prove to be more than an energy guy off the bench. But mostly, I just want him to get to play.
Hollinger likes Whitmore at 3 I see.
Not a draftnik so will defer to others. It does stink we don’t have a pick to look forward to complaining about.
I’d love to keep Obi but there’s no point to it, the whole team would need an overhaul to get the best out of him. In his current role he’s easily replaceable.
Really hope he gets to play for the Pacers, might be the only player I’ve wanted to move for the player’s sake more than the Knicks.
Re: Obi
In order to be a starter on a winning championship contender, you have to become a two-way player. With Thibs its defense, hustle and rebounding first (see Josh Hart for details). He played 48 minutes in a playoff game.
Obi has no one to blame for playing time but himself. It’s purely an focus and effort thing and Miami series gave him front row seats on what it takes and how it’s done. Develop grit, fight for every posession like your next meal depends on it and NY will adore you. Or don’t and just blame Thibs for not being fair (see Cam Reddish for details). I’d like to think a Brooklyn kid knows better. IQ does.
So where do we think the Knicks will pick?
For some reason, I’m totally blanking on this – Obi apparently thought he was getting traded at the deadline. Seeing as how Hart was already acquired before the deadline, who did Obi think he was getting traded for? Were there possible Obi trades at the deadline that I’m not remembering?
With FVV all but gone, and Siakam likely to be traded for rebuilding assets, I sure as hell would want to make $18M while watching my scoring opportunities go up probably 50% year over year.
Kind of makes sense to me. I would hope that his agent has done the math on available free agents and free agency dollars this year vs. next.
Doing a bit of light digging, it appears that “dancers” in NYC make 38-48k a year, but it’s not clear if these dancers use a pole or not. NYC Ballet dancers make between 65-130k a year, with probably only the primas breaking 100k (and that’s likely near top-end for ballet anywhere). Rockettes make about 72k. I checked NFL cheerleader salaries, which are really hard to parse (a suit against the Cowboys [of course] had a cheerleader say she was getting paid $8/hr, a good deal less than the mascot), but it seems like 52k might be a median.
Just for giggles, if the internet is to be believed, the average annual salary of a poet, lyricist or creative writer is ~66k. These numbers are all deeply suspect, but if they’re even ballpark, it suggests that the Knicks City Dancers are doing okay given that most artists make crap on average.
If you say they are entertainers, not artists, then the average NYC actor makes about 72k/yr. So there’s that.
As someone who spent a little time as a dancer in my mis-spent youth, I can safely say that nobody I met in that world was thinking about making money.
“Completely uneducated hot take. Miller’s J does not look NBA ready. He shot puts it out in front of his body and it negates his length. It does not look quick either.”
Sounds like that utter hack Haliburton guy.
(sorry, couldn’t help myself)
The ones who use a pole tend to make a lot more money than that
Obi was blocked by a 3rd team All-NBA player. Hart was blocked by… arguably the worst starter in the league.
I don’t believe anything Masai is saying about Toronto other than I agree with him that the despite their record last year, the gap between the Raptors and 2nd tier playoff teams or even the Heat is not large. So he may be looking to improve. However, I believe the reports that VanVleet may be out and Jakob Poeltl may leave. If that happens, there will be several other changes. If Jakob Poeltl leaves they will need a relatively young C to replace him. Hmmmn who has a C they might trade for OG?
Koloko showed promise as an elite defensive player for them. His box score numbers probably don’t cut it though.
If they lose Poeltl, then they’ll go after Naz Reid who might be gettable with the MLE.
The Knicks could use a draft pick. Something like Obi to the Pacers for draft pick 26 and 32 seems reasonable. I’m sure some people would prefer the Pacers number seven pick, but I just don’t think that is in the cards for us.
If we want the #7, then how about Randle for 7 and 32. Then we keep Obi.
I’d rather have Obi and 7 than Randle and 26.
I don’t think there is any Steph Curry waiting at number 7, so I just have a different opinion.
The Thompson Twins peaked around the time of Doctor, Doctor
Markkanen.
Oh my. Latest Stein newsletter: https://marcstein.substack.com/p/which-all-stars-are-truly-in-play?r=15m8l&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
If I was the Ballmer, I’d blow it up while he can still extract value from George and Kawhi, but I didn’t think he’d consider it. I thought he would try to run it back one more time.
Doogie , what about Markannen?
I’m still not sure what the Knicks are going to do or should do, but even if there is no big deal, they have to do something small to get better. If you don’t get better in this league, you are falling behind and getting worse.
I’m still awake, and will try asking this again on the new thread, but your Question of the Night:
How much would you be willing to give up, in players, picks, and swaps, for Paul George?
Doogie,
Barcelona did sweep Real Madrid in the best-of-5 ACB Finals.
Rokas played well in the series, especially in game 3 (13 PTS 4 AST, but he had 7 assists in game-1 and scored 10 PTS in Game-2).
He raised his game when it counted and that’s a positive sign.
Barca has a budget problem (they will waive Mirotic despite him still having 2 years on his contract) so maybe they’ll be happy to get Rokas’ NBA-buyout dollars and let him go (or, given his age, they can try to keep him and let Sato, Abrines or Kuric free).
He can be a low cost alternative at the backup-PG position (with a lot to learn obviously) or a filler in a bigger trade…