NY Post: Knicks rally past Hawks to even NBA playoff series

Great win.

How is Farfa? Hope everything is good with him. Hopefully we make it deep enough to get a playoff win recap from him.

Sweet, MSG Encore is on now. It’s 54-41 Hawks in the 2nd. I hope my 40% battery can make it to the end.

Thanks for all you do Brian!

Get better soon Hubert!

Take care Hubert and enjoy the W!

close your eyes and get some rest hubie…take care of yourself sir…

seems like as julius goes, so does reggie…

weird way for reggie to get himself in to the game early in the 3rd, but, oh well…

wow, it’s 2021 and the new york knicks won a playoff game…best 3 out of 5 now…understatement of the season, but, game 3 on friday is huge…

Best wishes Hubert, hope you’re feeling better!

Good win yesterday.

They didn’t shoot well (Bogdan & Gallo 4-22 from 3)
and for the second straight game McMillan’s rotations were shaky,
while Thibs was at his best in the second half, mixing, matching, nailing Payton to the bench and riding the emotional waves (Obi was surprised he wasn’t subbed during a timeout and an assistant had to push him in the huddle).

We dominated on the boards and, very important, only allowed them 6 OREB despite more than 50 missed shots…

Now let’s steal two in Atlanta!

Hope our Knicks will build something in this win. Let’s win the series!

Hope you’re feeling better, Hubert. It was the change of bars that sealed it, you don’t repeat the concussion part, ok?
About the game, playoffs are all about momentum and for a while it looked like we wouldn’t have a chance to change it, but then Thibs made adjustments for the 2nd half and (thank God) McMillan didn’t… and even better, Trae also didn’t manage to adapt to it. Very hard and fought win, this is what playoffs are about.
Someone said that for Atlanta it was mission accomplished to get back home with a tied series, which i agree, but i think the way the game went they felt they were on their way to have a 2 game advantage, and now it’s all tied, so the momentum is on us for game 3.
Either way, this is looking just like we predicted on the beginning of the series, a very tight series (probably) on it’s way to a game 7.

Totes McGoats as Totes McGoats:
Not that it hasn’t BEEN time for a change, but these first 2 games has shown- beyond a shadow of doubt- that it’s time to elevate Ntilikina to the rotation to replace 6, and start Rose. Burks and Quickley can handle the 2nd unit with Obi stepping up and Taj taking sips from the fountain of youth. If Thibs doesn’t see that,then he is even more stubborn that we thought

Exactly this. When i was “fighting” the Frankophiles, it wasn’t to keep Payton and don’t play Frank, it was because they went out of their minds and wanted him to start (!?), which is insane. Now, start DRose is the obvious move, and to not overplay him we should use Frank. If Frank isn’t dragging the team down, he can play all 16 mins we need DRose to sit. If he’s not playing well, Thibs can turn to point Burks again (great assist to Obi yesterday).

And i don’t agree that we’re screwed if Bogdanovic and Gallo start hitting their shots, because that argument goes both ways and in our case it’s our main players (Julius and RJ). Probably in Hawksblogger.net they are saying that they’re doomed because they lost with Julius and RJ having awful games… “if they start playing well, we don’t stand a chance” or something like that. But the playoffs are like this, it’s a grind.

Brief thoughts on a great win –

– Better late than never for Thibs, coming out with Rose to start the 2nd half. Most important big picture takeaway was how well the team played with Rose off the floor the first 4-5 minutes of the 4Q. Rose has to expect to play 36-38 minutes every game going forward – question is whether we can survive without him — if we can’t, then Thibs is going to feel like Rose has to play 40+ per game, which might not be sustainable even in the short term. The 4Q opening lineup was Quickley, Bullock, Burks, Obi, and Noel, and the lead went from +1 to +6 during that 4+ minute stretch.

– props to Obi, who I certainly left for dead midseason- playing with tons of confidence right now. His 3P ball path looks great – no more moon balls. It’s a tiny sample, but he is 10 for his last 22 from 3 point range since 4/23 – the last ATL reg season game. Over that time period, he’s played about 130 minutes and the Knicks are a +45 during those minutes. That is such a far cry from around the ASB where it seemed like he could only play 4 minutes without getting pulled because it was such a disaster.

– can’t wait for the Twitter video army to break down exactly what the Knicks were doing differently with Trae in the 2nd half – seemed a lot of forcing him left, hedging and recovery after the screen, and hoping that the Hawks missed 3s. But maybe that’s the only way. Have to make someone other than Trae beat you – get the ball out of his hands and live with whatever playmaking Huerter/Bogdanovic/etc can do even with an advantage.

– last thought — for me, the COVID pandemic didn’t feel real until 3/11/2020 when the NBA abruptly canceled the season. With MSG rocking the way it has been, it feels like the NBA is announcing that it’s over – at least the part of the pandemic (in the US, not other countries where it’s still a mess) where we have to live in fear. Feels amazing.

Hawks are not more talented than us. If you took individual players, they might have a lot more listed near the top but our defense is leaps and bounds better than their defense.

I’m glad you seem to be doing better Hubert.

Damn — get well, Hubert.

In the span of like an hour, the series completely changed, and now the Hawks coach is the one being second-guessed, and there might actually be a bit of dissention and questioning on the Hawk side. Which is why I’m nominating whoever it was that invented the best-of-7 playoff series for a bronze statue and a national holiday.

Hawks had the chance to finish the series yesterday and let it slip away.
0-2Knicks would have been dead psychologically and almost impossible to recover imo.
MrMomentum is in NY right now!

by the way I am sure everyone here has seen that Instagram post from DRose – I think it is just great:

I love chess so I would put it this way… I lost my Queen early in the game but I fought my f—– way back to get one of my pawns down the board to get her back.

It is hard to imagine the youngest MVP in the history of the league suffering repeated injuries, literally being cut and out of the league — and how humbling that must have been — then scratching and clawing his way back to relevance and now, back to stardom on the biggest stage. The pawn analogy is really powerful — such an awesome story. That’s why I don’t see him going anywhere this offseason.

Trae Young is an amazing offensive player, but just so bad on defense. In the 2nd half yesterday the Knicks really started to target him on defense, which seemed to lead to a great shot every single time they did it. The look of resignation on Capela’s face when he has to come over and overload the strong side tells the whole story.

One defensive adjustment that I liked seeing yesterday, even in the first half, was how they were less predictable on Trae and made an effort to force him to shoot rather than penetrate. He hit many of those shots, but you live with it. I don’t think he had more than 4-5 floaters/alley-oops throughout the game?

Trading for DRose was the trade of the year, wasn’t it?

I suppose an argument could be made for the move of that bearded guy over to Brooklyn, but nobody cares about that team. So, yes, this was the trade of the year.

Someone’s going to roster Elf as their 15th man, In Case of Point Guard Emergency Break Glass kind of role. He had enough games this year where he played well — even a few where he was a significant contributor to wins — that I imagine some GM will convince himself that this last stretch was just Elf in a massive mental funk, and that a change of scenery might restore his (admittedly limited) basketball utility. It will just need to be a team with so much shooting talent that it can survive whatever minutes Elf has to play.

Feel better Hubert. I have been hit twice by delivery bikes going the wrong way, once was a high speed yard sale, but no concussion. I definitely look both ways now though at any likely intersection and when I see bicyclists going the wrong way at speed I go full crotchety old man and just start yelling.

Those were some incredible highlights. 91-91 and we finished on a 10-1 run. The Toppin alley oop and the Taj dunk sent shivers down my spine. I had a really good dinner at Cosme, no threesome though, so my regret level is moderate but that’s a fantastic win.

I love Taj’s comments after the game. He’s like, I can’t even describe how it feels, and then he describes it perfectly.

https://twitter.com/sny_knicks/status/1397756517324099585

it’s really nice to be causing buzz around the league and it’s not the scandalous/lolknicks kind for a change… we are in the most exciting series of the playoffs so far… with the loudest crowds… with all sorts of positive/feel good storylines around…

it’s kind of amazing because as knicks fans we always expect the other shoe to drop at any moment… and by the graces of red holzman… we’re still waiting…. and the only explanation is its magic…

trades the Knicks have won historical timeline:

1968 — Bellamy and Komives for DeBusschere.
1971 — Riordan and Stallworth for Monroe.
1998 — Old Oakley for Young Camby
2020 — Young Smith for Old Rose

So what is the story on Mitch?

Is he close to returning?

I love Nerlens (who may have been less than 100% last night) and Taj’s, but this is one series where I think we may be missing Mitch. Capela is able to help so much because Nerlens is not much of a threat. Mitch is a much bigger lob threat. If we burned them a few times on lobs we might be able to neutralize their current strategy with Randle.

cgreene:
I do have to make one negative comment. Don’t get me wrong I am euphoric.

Fans that spit or try to spit on players in the name of the Knicks are a disgrace. Not sure if you all saw that video clip where the guy tried to spit on Trae and hit the woman courtside. Would like to hear that he gets a lifetime ban from MSG. Hold your fucking liquor!

Carry on…

Agreed, between that and the Westbrook popcorn incident it was an ugly night for fan-player relations. I tend to agree with Breen that even the “Fuck Trae Young” chants kind of cross the line. It has been an absolute joy to see the Garden rocking again and I think passionately rooting against the opposing team is as much a part of fandom as cheering on your own team but it’s important to keep some perspective here. I think sometimes fans have the attitude that it’s a product they’re consuming and they should be able to do whatever they want – customer is always right kind of thing – but these are real people (and honestly still a kid in Trae Young’s case).

Yeah, spitting on a player when Covid is still a thing? That is just gross and classless and that dude should never be allowed in MSG again. Taunt all you want, the second you get physical (and spitting is definitely physical) you are crossing a line. Disgusting.

Deefense, I think we will be lucky to see Mitch in a cameo appearance if we make it to the second round. In a weird way, an extended first round series could be good in this way. I think he is practicing but I think its a lot to ask him to come back in any significant way after spending so much time off the court.

I also agree that even “fuck trae young” is a bit too much. Booing an opposing team’s player, the classic “airball” chant when they airball, yell when they shoot free throws…all good. But cursing, personal insults, etc.

Side note, when I lived in NYC, my buddies and I would always do a road trip to Philly to watch a 76ers game because you could generally get really close seats for a good price. This was back in the Iggy days when they were decent but not great. We went to a 76ers/Magic game when the Magic had Dwight…the season after they went to the Finals. We sat right behind the magic bench and this philly fan was taunting Matt Barnes the whole game with really over the line personal insults. And Matt Barnes threatened to come up into the stands and kick his ass. It was crazy intense. In that same game, a kid had this helium balloon that he let go of and it floated over the magic bench over Stan Van Gundy and hung there about 15 feet above Van Gundy’s head for like 20 minutes. People kept shouting at Van Gundy to do something about the balloon.

geo:
KB Apprentice with the key play of the game…it doesn’t always work – but, every so often switching chairs and hats can be effective tools for willing your team to victory!!!

Haha. It was Z-man who first switched our collective emotions to positivity. Props to him.

But I DID switch up to an old Starter Cap from the 1990s, so … who knows 😉

Such a GREAT game!

And as Frank rightly says below, if Thibs uses that strong 4th Q lineup some minutes in both halves, we might get a starting DRose the necessary rest and also preclude the need to use (and further discuss) … Frank.

Frank: The 4Q opening lineup was Quickley, Bullock, Burks, Obi, and Noel, and the lead went from +1 to +6 during that 4+ minute stretch.

1968 — Bellamy and Komives for DeBusschere.
1971 — Riordan and Stallworth for Monroe.
1998 — Old Oakley for Young Camby
2020 — Young Smith for Old Rose

what is with the derek harper erasure…

the ‘fuck trae young’ chants are really really stupid…. he literally hasn’t done anything notable to deserve it… it’s a completely random thing.. paul pierce who did way worse against us for much much longer didn’t get this treatment… it’s completely nonsensical…. we’re elevating him for no apparent reason…

the ‘trae young is balding’ chants… now that is funny… and i fully endorse…

If Thibs stays with Rose starting. the questions now are what happens to 2nd unit (that often has an advantage) with Rose off the court

the funny thing about this is that if there is one player on the knicks who benefits least from playing with rose and in fact probably maximizes his marginal contribution without rose, that guy is burks, because he tends to be most comfortable creating his own shot.

rose and burks together this year: pts/100 = 108.3 (413 mins)
rose or burks separately: pts/100 = 116.7 (1365 mins)

burks with rose: 16.6 pts/100; 51.2 TS%
burks without rose: 29.2 pts/100; 54.5 TS%

and burks and rose also have a similar defensive weakness in terms of keeping quicker guards (or kevin huerter) in front of them.

not only that, but gibson (or basically anyone) is a way more capable offensive player than noel, so there is nothing about the second unit mix that could possibly be worse than pairing two off the charts offensive anchors like noel and payton. rose has been great but i think the one strength of a bench unit anchored by a burks iq back court is guards who can space and/or initiate, so i think if anything we’ve been diminishing part of his key value to the team. the one thing thibs should consider if rose is starting would be to bring obi in a bit earlier so he can overlap more with rose. obi has looked a lot more useful on offense when rose has been on the court, as rose is the one guy who effectively pushes the ball and puts obi in position to finish without having to start.

Breen’s Favourite:
Trae Young
no more Bang!

ptmilo: if rose is starting would be to bring obi in a bit earlier so he can overlap more with rose. obi has looked a lot more useful on offense when rose has been on the court, as rose is the one guy who effectively pushes the ball and puts obi in position to finish without having to start.

Yes. And I think this tracks also with Randle feeling a bit more comfortable when Capella is off. Managing Randle/Obi a bit better might accomplish both things.

Payton starting again tomorrow would mean that Thibs is clearly and heavily into S&M and wants to share it with knicks fans

I for one am totally fine with pretty much any chant the crowd wants to do that doesn’t make fun of family members or kids, isn’t racist/homophobic etc. These guys have all heard much worse, and honestly, like djphan says, Trae’s street cred has gone even higher with all this. The balding thing is hilarious.

Re: the birds thing – PA system should play super-loud sounds of birds wings flapping etc when Trae goes to the line. This is the fun stuff that arenas should do to improve the homecourt advantage and up the emotional intensity. MSG could definitely give out bird masks to everyone behind the basket. I mean, that’s fun!

Interesting nugget about D-Rose these two games – taking the ball to the hoop a whole lot stronger than during the regular season, when he was settling for floaters. Averaged only 21.5% of his FGA at the rim during the regular season, and is at 40.5% FGA at the rim these two games. Small sample of course, but it’s noticeable even in real-time. He knows it’s go time.

I hope they ban the guy that spit on him. I am 100% all-in on trash talk, but there are certain lines that can’t be crossed. Spitting is a triple jump over that line. The Westbrook shit is disgusting too.

One of the weirder obnoxious fan experiences I had was at a UT Vols game back probably 20 or so years ago. It was an SEC game, though I forget who against.

At any rate, there was a guy 3 or 4 rows down from us and a bit to the right who stood nearly the entire game and shouted insults to the referees. All kinds of profanities, relentlessly, seemingly every single call that they made. We called him “Wayne Newton” b/c he looked a bit like the famous Vegas singer. He was far enough away that he didn’t bother us, though we could pretty clearly hear what he was saying when the overall crowd noise was low.

The people just in front of and behind him couldn’t have been happy, but I guess no one complained. The guy did have a wife who was seated deep into her seat and seemed very embarrassed.

isn’t spitting at people considered an assualt these days…

hopefully thibs sticks with the second half starters: rose, reggie, RJ, julius, taj to begin game 3…

MSG identified the spitter and have indefinitely banned them from the arena. Good.

Count de Pennies: ^This.

For years, Knicks fans have flattered themselves as being the most sophisticated & knowledgeable in the entire sports universe.It’s a viewpoint that I, myself, believed that to be true and that has certainly been validated by the overall level of discussion on this board which is the most sophisticated, knowledgeable sports blog that I know of.

Hearing the “Fuck Trae Young” chants has lent a somewhat sour taste to what has otherwise been the utterly joyous return of playoff basketball to the Garden. That’s the kind of mouth-breathing stupidity one expects to hear from an SEC football crowd and not a Knicks fanbase lauded for its smarts. Be better, folks.

Oh yeah, was very relieved this morning to read that Hubert was not seriously hurt. That’s generally not the case when flesh & bone meets metal objects powered by internal combustion and dumb teenagers so I’m glad Hubert had a happier outcome than I’d initially feared.

Go Knicks!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Knicks fanbase is no better than “SEC football fans”, whatever weird coded language that even means. What a small thing to say.

“Trae is balding” was a good chant.

geo:

hopefully thibs sticks with the second half starters: rose, reggie, RJ, julius, taj to begin game 3…

will be intersting to see…his response to why he did it in the 2nd half was “we needed a spark” generic don’t shit on my guy speak…if he goes back to the elf for game 3…it would be a big mistake but not surprising given what appears to be some kind of weird loyalty to the guy…

Young’s smile made it clear that he enjoys living rent-free, etc.

begrudgingly, that was kind of cool moment when trae grinned at the crowd before throwing that beautiful out of bounds lob to hunter (which he thankfully missed) at the rim…

Live your myth in Greece!

#Eddie A Johnson
@Jumpshot8
It is wrong for a fan to throw anything at a player, but if I had a choice I would choose popcorn! My first game in Greece I got hit with a coin and got stitches below my eye. Then later that game I had a doorknob and a fish thrown at me. Dropped 35 on their #%## and left! I won#

thibs postgame

reggie, rose, julius postgame

best interview: taj postgame

edit: just noticed, taj got a pretty tight manicure game going on…

That sequence when Obi blocked a shot and run up court for the dunk, with Clyde calling it seconds ahead of time was wow ? big time. Athleticism and high basketball IQ coming together for a masterpiece moment.

geo: edit: just noticed, taj got a pretty tight manicure game going on…

I wonder if there’s any peer pressure around the league for guys to keep their nails under control- no one likes getting scratched.

JK47:
The worst fielding play in baseball history happened today. Cubs-Pirates.

That was hysterical.

ha!!! the first basemen chased the batter back to home plate???

was he worried that if the runner stepped back in to the batter’s box he’d get another plate appearance…people get distracted, lose focus, shit happens, that was funny though…

There were TWO OUTS! All the first baseman had to do was step on the bag and the inning would be over! The runner on third doesn’t matter! Also, you really need to watch the clip again with the Pirates’ radio team calling it. It is delightful.

Donnie Walsh. I would add Cazzie for Lucas (as underrated as I think Cazzie was). Luke was a big key in the ’73 championship

They could have just tagged Baez at any point during that play

“I C No D in T R A E”
Not very good or likely to take hold in a noisy crowd, but something targeting his lousy defense might have a better chance of getting into his head than mocking his appearance. My guess is he doesn’t have any trouble finding dates.
Or maybe something that dares him to give in to his uber chucker weakness.
“Hey Trae no way. You can’t hit from far away.” Something like that but better.

In any event, game one was great theater and he played his part well. Have to tip your hat sometimes.
Having a Reggie-like villain to despise adds spice to a delicious dish if we can manage to serve it to him.

random question:

Quickley and Trae have a surprising amount of similarities. Trae is obviously a far superior ball handler and has better vision. What percent of Trae Young do y’all think IQ can become? Sometimes during this series I get a little giddy and think IQ can be 75% of the player Young is one day.

JK47:
They could have just tagged Baez at any point during that play

What about, you know.. stepping on first?

Hubert:
random question:

Quickley and Trae have a surprising amount of similarities. Trae is obviously a far superior ball handler and has better vision. What percent of Trae Young do y’all think IQ can become? Sometimes during this series I get a little giddy and think IQ can be 75% of the player Young is one day.

I don’t like the premise of the question because it’s apples to oranges, or at least lemons to limes. There are simply some things Trae does that are not possible for IQ. It’s part ball-handling, part court-vision. However, IQ has the capability to be a solid 2-way player, he’s long for his height and has good instincts. Trae will never be even an average defender. So Trae is a transcendent scoring PG and IQ is a smallish combo-guard with wing tendencies.

Trae is a fringy max player…the one-way thing is an issue. So in those terms, can IQ be 75% as valuable at some high but non-max salary some day in a more complementary role? Yeah, maybe even more so. Trae is not the player I’d want to build a team around, but he will command that status salary-wise. It will be a long time before IQ gets paid anything near what he is worth, and even then, it will be far less than Trae.

“Trae is a fringy max player…the one-way thing is an issue”…they said the same thing when Steph first came into the league..

pepper: “Trae is a fringy max player…the one-way thing is an issue”…they said the same thing when Steph first came into the league..

Steph was 2nd in the league in steals as a rookie. Whoever said that about him was a dummy. He may not have the ability to switch like wings do, but he sure as hell wasn’t hurting his team when he took the ball from his man’s hands.

The Honorable Cock Jowles: Steph was 2nd in the league in steals as a rookie. Whoever said that about him was a dummy. He may not have the ability to switch like wings do, but he sure as hell wasn’t hurting his team when he took the ball from his man’s hands.

i have been living in the bay area for the last 12 years and watched him play from infancy to now and he definitely has always been a good ball hawk…but one on one he was overmatched but he is stronger now and not so much of a pushover on defense…my point was…to suggest Young has no future on dee at this point…may be premature

IQ doesn’t seem to have the PG skills that Trae does and that’s a huge disadvantage right there. So we’re already looking more at Lou Williams than Trae Young.

Also IQ is only a year younger than Trae, so he honestly doesn’t seem anywhere near him.

Whatever a Lou Williams type 6th man is as a percentage of Trae is my answer. It’s a big drop off unless Quickley surprises me and shows a better ability to run the point.

Maybe they should just go back to not having fans in attendance. Between the spitting, and the riling up Trae Young to beat us, and the ruining Randle’s game altogether, I feel like they have been a failed experiment. (Would Dolan agree to no fans in game 5 if the players asked him for it?)

I love IQ’s game, but in the off-season I’d coach him to get more confident handling the ball.

ditto for obi, it would be good if we could play him at the 3 with julius at the 4…doesn’t seem like thibs will ever use julius at the 5 much…

these heat fans are in shock

Heat should have tried harder to face the Hawks.

When I watch this series, I see IQ as closer to Trae than Lou. Specifically, I can actually see IQ being the starting PG and primary ballhandler, and being quite good at it. And obv they both have the unstoppable runner.

But I did get concussed last night, so…

As for precedent, was Steph always an elite ballhandler? I don’t remember him coming into the league like that. People thought he was just a shooter.

***nuggets game is on nba tv***

Yeah, that’s not a channel that Hulu live carries I guess. (Which is too bad because I can watch the Lakers/Suns on their local channel here. Oh well).

jeez…kaminsky’s a stiff

I guess the Heat culture wasn’t enough this time, who could have imagined…

the austin rivers game…

is Harrell injured…he doesn’t play at all…

It’s the same reason he couldn’t get paid this past offseason. The modern NBA has made him pretty much useless.

Really struggling to remember why we kept Elfrid Payton over Austin Rivers

About the game, it’s the playoffs, so for people that don’t remember the 90s (although 2013 left a mark also when IND looked stronger than before), there’s no telling if a team will regress or improve for the playoffs. One clear example of this it’s the Miami Heat, they clearly take a step up (or two) in the playoffs.

This quote of mine has aged beautifully! LOL

I don’t think IQ and Trae are so similar. Physically IQ is 6’2″ without shoes with a 6’8″+ wingspan and 8’3″ standing reach. Trae was 6ft 0.5″ with a 6’3″ wingspan and 178 lbs 7’11” standing reach.

As players – offensively IQ is ok passing the ball but Trae is probably a top5 passer in the league right now – I mean it’s not even close. I am not sure passing vision is so much of an improvable thing – Randle going from 3.4 to 5.8 assists per 36 is basically unprecedented – and probably has more to do with the offense being more structured and Randle being better coached than any specific improvement in his vision. I love Quickley but he basically has zero chance IMHO of becoming the top 10% offensive hub that Trae is. He could be really good but not close to Trae offensively.

The big difference is that defensively, Trae is too small and on top of that just doesn’t play hard. Can you imagine Trae boxing out and fighting through screens like Quickley has done the first two games? And re: the Steph comparison – Steph is like 6’4″ and works really hard on defense. Trae just doesn’t. Atlanta’s big issue that they will need to figure out going forward is that while they have a bunch of wings, none of them are really 2-way guys except for Hunter, who while better this year, is pretty limited offensively. They really could’ve used Gordon Hayward, who (when healthy) is a pretty good defender. It’s just hard to hide Trae when you have multiple other bad defenders at the same time.

cybersoze: Re: IQ, is his problem ball handling? I think he’s ok at that, what i think is his problem to be a PG is court vision, floor general, orchestrate the offense skills

I agree IQ could improve his court vision, but I do see him get the odd/good assist with a clever pass every so often, so I have hope for him there. What I rarely see him do is beat his man off the dribble. He protects the ball well, but he goest East – West a lot unless, as you say, he calls his own number and goes for that floater. I’d like to see him improve going AT the basket and get better at finding the open man, especially finding Mitch for dunks. The latter is one thing Trae does very well that IQ might match. And driving AT the basket is also what DRose does well and Burks does well when necessary. To me IQ seems very smart and very motivated, more so than a Knick rookie in a long time except maybe RJ. If IQ improves this part of his game, he becomes a very valuable piece of our puzzle. Certainly I feel he can get as good as anyone in our pantheon of illustrious point guards from the last decade.

danvt: Your job in the off season and at the middle school gym is to get better.

Exactly this. I hope IQ sees himself more as baby Steph (with better D!) and less as Lou Williams

About tonight, i’m super calm and optimistic, in contrast to the highly anxious day i had on wednesday. What a huge difference winning the first game in the playoffs can do for you. 🙂

FYI – great video breakdown of Julius’s Tale of Two Halves at the Strickland:

https://twitter.com/TheStrickland/status/1398236358422847488?s=20

Interesting thing is the Hawks letting Julius go to his strong hand where help is waiting. Basically ICE-ing him (it wasn’t a PNR but the point is to get him going to baseline) and keeping him from going middle – then Julius flipping the script by jab-stepping / crossing-over dudes in the second half. The problem with the guys they have guarding him is they can’t keep up with his first step regardless of how they’re shading him. Maybe Hunter can but Gallo/Bogdanovic have no chance.

We can fantasize about IQ improving his court vision and ballhandling skills, but I have yet to see the player who dramatically improved those two things the way that IQ would need to to get into Trae’s class.

Offensive skill-wise, IQ is FAR closer to Lou Williams than Trae Young. It’s not even close. Trae is truly exceptional with the ball. IQ is at the very bottom of the league as PGs go. He’s a shooting guard with some PG aptitude (again, by NBA standards.)

Can he improve somewhat? Sure! Trae Young can improve his defense somewhat, too! But he will never be even an average defender.

PG (or point anything) is the position that depends the most heavily on innate talent. You don’t learn elite court vision or elite ball-handling skills. Either you have them or you don’t. That goes for point forwards and point centers as well. Randle improved his passing and ballhandling, but he will never be LeBron or Bird or Jokic. Which is fine!

Same with IQ. He will never be Trae or Steph or Nash or Stockton. Which is fine! Lou Williams with better defense is a key piece. That’s what he should aim for, and I think he realizes that….he told Lou that he was his favorite player and role model himself.

Lou Williams with defense is a fantastic player to have,
even as a sixth man that close games playing 1 or 2 based on opposing lineups.

If IQ becomes that, we will have hit the jackpot with the 25th pick, sign me in!

I am expecting a rabid ATL crowd tonight. The notion that it will feel like a home game seems far-fetched to me.

Frank:
PG: Rose, Quickley, Vildoza
Wing: Burks, Bullock, Barrett
PF: Randle, Obi
C: Mitch, and Bring Taj Back of course, Pelle

So we would have 11 roster spots filled, 4 draft picks (19, 21, 33, 58), and $25MM in this scenario.

Don’t forget our baby giraffe. 😛

I imagine that if Obi continues to develop, Thibs will find minutes for him. Either they will reduce Randle’s minutes a bit or they will be on the floor together.

The Honorable Cock Jowles:
re: Lou Williams’ contracts, there have been a bunch of guys like that. IIRC Andre Miller played for like 25 years and was productive for many of them, but never earned much in a single year. Maybe Jamal Crawford too, but I have to believe he at least broke double digits. I’ll do some research when I’m at a bigger screen.

Jamal got paid $13 mill by the Clips and had 5 years where he made more than Lou. Miller also had 4 years where he got paid more than Lou, topping out at $10.3 mill with the Sixers. All were deserving of more, but Lou is truly egregious.

Hubert:
When I watch this series, I see IQ as closer to Trae than Lou. Specifically, I can actually see IQ being the starting PG and primary ballhandler, and being quite good at it. And obv they both have the unstoppable runner.

But I did get concussed last night, so…

As for precedent, was Steph always an elite ballhandler? I don’t remember him coming into the league like that. People thought he was just a shooter.

1. I’d like to see what IQ’s passing looks like in Year 2. How much can he improve there will determine if he’s on the “Lou Will w/D” path or if he can pass & make reads well enough to eventually be a starter someday… which would be enormous return on his draft stock.

2. I remember Bobby Knight doing a pre-draft breakdown of Steph, and he pointed out where his passing was good enough to be a point on the NBA level. At that point I said, “well if Bobby Knight says he can be an NBA PG then I’m sold”.

Z-man: I have yet to see the player who dramatically improved those two things the way that IQ would need to to get into Trae’s class.

Yeah, don’t get me wrong. I don’t need/expect him to become Trae. And you answered my question about not seeing a player improve dramatically in PG skills. That’s exactly the question I pose to all the wise ones here: Has any player dramatically improved their PG skills in your experience?

My eye test says IQ might have the ability to be better than or at least every bit as good as, say, Ray Felton, Chris Duhon, Charlie Ward, Greg Anthony, Chris Childs, Brandon Jennings, and on and on. I would love to give him the chance to try.

thenoblefacehumper:
There’s a trade in this article that I actually don’t hate by the standards of fake trades that will never happen. I was hesitant to even post it, because it will never happen, but I think it’s a useful thought exercise:

New York Knicks receive: Collin Sexton

Cleveland Cavaliers receive: Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox II, No. 21 pick (via DAL) and No. 32 pick (via DET)

Sexton is about to get paid which is why it’s prooooobably a no from me, but he’s quietly become a pretty intriguing player. He’s basically a 22 year-old version of Derrick Rose. I’d definitely be tempted to see what a Sexton-Barrett backcourt could do for years to come.

I’d be a no on that trade. I like Sexton but that’s a lot to give up. Also, hope you are referring to Rose 2021, not MVP Rose. In any event, he’s not much of a passer, so I’d rather wait to see what we have in Vildoza and play IQ in whatever role you have imagined for Sexton. Obi by himself might wind up the better player than Sexton, not to mention finding an analog with the draft picks you propose giving up.

thenoblefacehumper:
There’s a trade in this article that I actually don’t hate by the standards of fake trades that will never happen. I was hesitant to even post it, because it will never happen, but I think it’s a useful thought exercise:

New York Knicks receive: Collin Sexton

Cleveland Cavaliers receive: Obi Toppin, Kevin Knox II, No. 21 pick (via DAL) and No. 32 pick (via DET)

Sexton is about to get paid which is why it’s prooooobably a no from me, but he’s quietly become a pretty intriguing player. He’s basically a 22 year-old version of Derrick Rose. I’d definitely be tempted to see what a Sexton-Barrett backcourt could do for years to come.

Hmmm… decent shooting and FT %s. I feel his assist #s are a bit low for my liking, but it did improve by 1.4 per game this season. Not loving the defensive #s.

I’d probably pass; at the same time, he’s still only 22.

If we’re giving Cleveland Obi, who was the #8 pick and is now playing well in playoff minutes, why would they get anything else? Knox, sure, but a draft pick and a second round pick on top of that? Sexton is on a BAD team and is one year removed from getting a much bigger payday. Obi has like 4 more cost controlled seasons after this one on a rookie contract and is showing to be worthy of his top ten pick status (how dope is to say that now?)

Honestly, I’d keep Obi and see if we can give him more minutes by cutting back a bit on Randle’s, playing Randle at the 5 some and Obi at the 3 a bit. I mean, shit, I love Randle but if he stays at this all-star level even at a max contract he’s probably tradeable in 3 seasons if Obi proves to be a worthy replacement.

Rose/IQ/Villadoza with a draft pick PG is probably fine for next season. Rose can probably start IF Thibs is cool with the minutes and gives him some nights off against scrub teams.

I don’t know why you think starting Rose next year means 36 minutes a game. Play him 27 and have Vildoza (I hope!) pick up 14 or so, and Quick playing with Burks (I hope!) taking up the remaining 7 or so.

Also, curious if this is the worst idea ever. People keep mentioning running Obi at the 3. Maybe it’s just because of the way he’s shaped, but I look at him and see the potential for a small-ball stretch 5. A lot of development needed, and he’d be eaten alive by real big men no matter what, but for those times when the other team goes small…?

The Honorable Cock Jowles: Swap out Payton for LaVine on this year’s squad and I think we’re looking at a 48-24 team that belongs in the conversation for ECF contenders, instead of mere underdogs.

It’s incredible that you are saying that, not because it’s wrong, but because of how far removed it is from the collective thinking here going into this season. If we are Zach LaVine away from being ECF contenders, Leon Rose may be the POBO of the century.

if you think parking obi behind the 3pt line and starting his offense from there is a great idea… then you could get away with obi at the 3.. but i think if you seen the season or even that possession he was trying to drive past huerter on Wed.. then that’s probably a bad idea….

it’s probably ok to play both randle and obi at the 4/5 against certain lineups… and maybe next year he’ll try it..

Don’t ask me why, but I watched a lot of Cavs games this year and I’m not sold on Sexton despite his gaudy scoring numbers, not at that price anyway.

There are good signals (his AST% has improved) and PG’s usually need more time to develop, but he’s still a sieve on defense and as usual someone has to put up numbers on a bad team (otherwise every Cavs’ game will end 120-70).

Raven:
I don’t know why you think starting Rose next year means 36 minutes a game. Play him 27 and have Vildoza (I hope!) pick up 14 or so, and Quick playing with Burks (I hope!) taking up the remaining 7 or so.

You are making a good point about him starting and not necessarily playing 36 minutes, but I’m thinking in terms of finding someone that can play 36 or even 40 or more in the playoffs or the occasional OT game. I really don’t want to be in a position where our best PG can only give us 27 (or whatever) minutes. I’d like to solve this PG problem for the next 5 years or longer. But if we have to keep doing this so be it.

Vildoza has to be better than Payton, right? I mean, right there you seem to have a low budget 20 minute guy to keep Rose from burning out.

There are so many possibilities for this offseason, it’s hard to predict anything. So my hope is that we take exactly the same approach as last year…value signings that maintain flexibility for when a big splash might be prudent. I truly hope we retain Bullock, Rose, Noel, Burks and Taj…keep developing RJ, Mitch, Obi and IQ, and play Vildoza if he’s good. That’s a 10-man rotation right there. Throw in a couple of draft picks and shake out Knox, Frank and the other scrubs to fill in the back end of the roster. If a deal materializes for a star, whatever. This team has Knicks fans dancing in the streets after one playoff win. I can live with that for another year.

How long Derrick Rose can sustain this kind of play is a pretty interesting question. He’s obviously an entirely below-the-rim player at this point in his career, and he’s relying on craftiness and touch. Still has the good wheels.

The wheels will slow down at some point, but a lot of his current skills are “old man” skills and should age well.

Knowing what we know now, would you have traded for Harden when he was on the market? Say, for Mitch/Obi/a bunch of picks.

Harden
Bullock
RJ
Randle
Noel

With Rose, Quickley, Burks and Taj on the bench.

Isn’t that team a Finals contender in the East this season (especially when you consider that the Nets wouldn’t be as good)?

It was obviously the right call not to trade for him at the time, but damn, that is a good team.

It’s funny that many of us keep forgetting that our starting center is on the injured list,
but he’ll projected to be fully available next year,
so one of Noel and Taj if re-signed need to get accustomed to DNP-CD.

I think Noel will choose a team that can give him a starting spot,
if so who you’d rather have, Nerlens or Mitch?

I would be more comfortable if Sexton came with, say, a 4/$60 contract. But that man is gonna get the max, and what an incredible thing to say about a guy whose team has been between -7 and -9 SRS over the past three seasons. That’s not all his fault, but you can’t be that bad with a true star at PG.

At the end of the day I agree and wouldn’t do the trade because of his looming free agency. He’s kind of a trap player in that he’s good enough to get the post-rookie max, but not good enough to provide surplus value on it.

Having said that, he does fulfill a boatload of our needs on offense and I wouldn’t worry too much about his defense based on our other personnel/coaching. He’s also probably dogging it to some extent on that end in Cleveland. He’s gotten better every year and there’s still some low hanging fruit for him to clean up.

I wouldn’t make the trade, but I’d be kinda excited if we did make it.

I think a rotation of Noel-Mitch-Taj is perfect. Taj was out of the league with no takers, so he’s at the point in his career where he’d probably be fine sitting behind those guys and being available however Thibs needs him. Not to mention that both Nerlens and Mitch are injury prone.

I think Noel will choose a team that can give him a starting spot,
if so who you’d rather have, Nerlens or Mitch?

I haven’t changed my mind.

I’d rather have Mitch, but if there’s a trade available that is a significant upgrade at another position and Mitch has to be part of it, I think you can at least consider making that trade and coming back with Nerlens and Taj. I don’t think Mitch is so far above Nerlens that’s he’s off the table and I’d hate to lose Nerlens for nothing. I’d like to bring them both back, but I have a funny feeling that’s not going to happen.

Yeah, sometimes I feel inferior to BKLYN and like the ultimate homer. I heard two Celtic fans up here crushing on Payton Pritchard and thought, “Is that me?” But I think there is something to be said for bucking the big three trend. That’s the possibility of a longer sustained run of greatness (not to mention that the essence of sports isn’t “If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em”)

How long will Brooklyn’s run be? Is the band in LA(C) about to break up already? I think, if we do it right, we can build a decade of excellent basketball with an authentic NY identity.

Rose/Vildoza bring back Kidd/Prigioni memories
A high caliber starting pg is needed tho

Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada:
If I had my druthers, my offseason would look like:

Sign Payne, Re-sign Rose and one of Bullock and Burks (no idea which would be better without salary info but probably Bullock, given expected price and role on the team…), draft one of Giddey/Springer/Dosunmu and one of Sharpe/Queta, then idk who for the 2nd rounder (maybe Trey Murphy? idk). The above signings are presuming that we maintain some kind of cap flexibility, though I have no idea if that’s a realistic assumption given what I just outlined.

Our rotation:
PG: Payne, Rose, Giddey/Springer/Dosunmu, Vildoza
SG: RJ, IQ, Payne (you could probably run Payne/Rose two PG sets too, since their skill sets are complementary–it would be an interesting look), Springer/Dosunmu
SF: Bullock, RJ, ??? (SF is a big hole for us after Reggie)
PF: Randle, Obi, ???
C: Mitch/Noel (I think only 1 is staying), Taj, Queta/Sharpe

That’s 12 players, plus a second round pick, two empty roster spots for vet mins, and two two-way deals, probably for our late 2nd and Theo (we must keep Theo at all costs, for chemistry reasons). That’s not a bad team at all.

Silky, I really like Queta’s passing skills in addition to his defense. Id allow Noel to walk with him getting drafted.don’t think that Giddey will drop to us but I’m in on Springer or Dosunmo.

Payne would be a vast improvement over Payton but I’d like to find a way to keep Burks too. Call me greedy if you must.

payne’s improvement has been awesome. it’s just really hard to know what he’ll get. he’s not a secret anymore. but he’s definitely an interesting option if his market doesn’t spiral.

Do we know if Elf went to Atlanta?!!!! 😉

I’m already half in the bag…

Never going to get excited about Sexton. Or Lavine.

I felt the same way about Lavine until this season. He has put up video game numbers. I think he’d be a great add. Nothing Atlanta is doing in this series would work if Lavine were on the court with Randle.

I’ve also become much less concerned about elite scorers with bad defensive reputations. We have a team defensive structure that would mitigate much of Lavine’s shortcomings.

Vorkunov:

Tom Thibodeau is “still undecided” about the Knicks starting lineup for Game 2 in Atlanta.
What he’s thinking about: “What gives us our best chance to win.”

Elf must have pictures of Thibs not watching game film. lol

Rose is the obvious choice, Taj just seems like a much better match up for this series to check Capela and add an extra dimension on offense.

Kyrie: “please no subtle racism from Celtics fans ”

Celtics fans: “don’t worry, it won’t be subtle”

He finally made the move!

Win or lose, tonight calls for celebration

Thank you Thibs
You are a good man