Knicks Morning News (2018.07.01)

Is Hezonja more of a 2 or a 3? At 6’8″, he’d seem more of a forward, but I thought he was drafted as a shooting guard back in the day. And if there’s one thing this team doesn’t need… well, it’s more players who don’t play defense. But if it’ another thing this team doesn’t need, it’s another shooting guard.

Which of course would make him the perfect Knick signing.

Well, then that makes it worth lightly more sense. Still, I’d rather pass.

@4 Definitely
They will also live to regret paying Chris Paul 40 million per for his age 33 through 37 year old seasons.

Morey had no choice but to give Paul whatever he wanted and worry about the end of the contract later. The alternative was to allow Paul to walk and then spend a couple of years trying to get another player like him to team with Harden. Even if he found one, he would have to pay through the nose for him anyway and the clock would be ticking on Harden and his other players while the search was on. They are too close to a title to not do something reckless trying to get it.

Ariza was a loss.

ptmilo,

Will Barton 4 years 54 million. That’s the market for SGs that are in that borderline starter/6th man category. Last year was probably his best year and he was 27.

So that more or less gives us a line into how much Hardaway is overpaid unless he develops further.

McBuckets 3 years 22 million.

Okc still needs a running mate fir Russ at the 2; thjr + Lee fir melo and a first makes sense for them

@13: Melo would have to agree to be traded, with the understanding that he’d be released after. Would his ego allow that?

Melo must be freaking out realizing that OKC prefers Jerami Grant at the PF slot and he’s more or less considered a totally washed player that should be chasing a ring off the bench for a contender. His self awareness was never too keen, but even at the end of the season he was complaining about minutes and role because he thinks he’s still a top player in the league. In most cases, I would have sympathy for someone that’s at the end of their career like that, but for some reason instead of sympathy Melo generates a different kind of response from me. I guess it’s kind of a mix of sympathy while laughing at the lack of self awareness.

Listening to the dunc’d on mock off-season and lol are those nerds wrong

@21

On the plus side Barton peaked last year at 27 (not that unusual). Hardaway had a down year shooting last year relative to Atlanta. Maybe it was the injury. Maybe it was the bigger role, pressure in NY, or the way he was used. We basically have to hope he turns that part of his game around and continues to inch forward there and elsewhere. I think we all agree the Knicks overpaid.

Kornet is coming back- that’s a good signing. Will we have EB rights on him next year? Not sure how that works with two way guys ie whether that 2 way counts as a year of service towards bird rights.

I think the noise about Tolliver and hezonja makes it clear we are shooting a lot more 3s this year.

Surprising that no one tried to force Toronto’s hand with VanVleet. Two years for roughly what THJ makes in a year?

The Ariza signing is puzzling from his perspective. Why leave a title contender for a crappy team who’s only offering one year? He’s 33 already. You’d think he’d make the opposite move — wanting more years on a better team.

At least it eliminates Phoenix from the tank race.

I wonder if the Rockets have any interest in Courtney now that they’ve lost Ariza. He’s not a 3 and the Rockets are full at guard but they can probably play 3 guards with Tucker and Capela against a lot of lineups. Maybe I’m just hoping for one last shot at Melton.

Edit: actually it doesn’t look like they have enough salary to dump to get that done besides Ryan Anderson

Begley reporting that KOQ is much more likely to sign somewhere else. Seriously what the fuck was this front office doing during the trade deadline?

It’s not a 40pct shot at RJ it’s a 40pct shot at a top 3 pick. It’s 14pct shot at the top pick.

Yeah, I think Ariza was thinking the same thing as Chandler (on a smaller scale, of course), “Those are a lot of zeroes.”

The Knicks now have Kanter, Noah, Kornet, and Robinson at C. I looks like O’Quinn is gone. That makes it look more and more like a mistake to not trade him last year. I was opposed to trading him because I thought (and still think) he was a good player on a team friendly contract that might give us a home team discount. I want(ed) him back. But if they are going to let him walk then it was clearly a mistake to not trade him. I have no idea what they could have gotten for him, but even if it was an expiring and a 2nd rounder that’s better than nothing! Granted they didn’t know they would have Robinson now and I don’t think Kornet was on the scene yet, but still. It feels like we are not using our assets well at all. Willy is gone. O’Quinn looks like he’s gone. We don’t have much to show for 2 solid players that were on team friendly contracts.

Makes you wonder about Perry a tad if there was an actual market for McBuckets and the Knicks had to throw in a second rounder with him to get a shitty guard.

Sadly, based on what they paid and their comments since, it sure seems like this group thinks highly of Mudiay.

Interesting thing about Hezonja is that although he’s tabbed as an all offense type guy he actually derived most of his value last season from his defense. 1.8 out of his 2.3 Win Shares last season came from there.

I like Hezonja as a flier, he showed real improvement last year and has the talent, it’s just that in a world we’re guys like McDermott are getting contracts like this, he will probably be at least slightly overpaid.

If it’s a 1+1 deal I’m not totally against it, specially if we do indeed trade Lee.

I want us to take a flier on Hezonja because instantly he’d be our best forward with the highest upside. I look at our wings now and I see an average starter in THJ and a bunch of nice potential bench pieces in Williams, Dotson, Baker, Trier, and Knox. My hope is three of them develop into long-term rotation players off the bench. If I had to bet the best of that bunch will be Williams. But that’s as a PJ Tucker type bench player, not a starter. I don’t really see plus starter potential in any of them.

If Ntilikina can develop into our PG or if Burke is the real deal we might be okay at the 1 but if KP is a 5 we need two plus players at the 3 and 4. Maybe Hezonja could be one. Probably not but he does have that kind of potential.

For roster spots, I’d bet money Noah gets stretched as soon as he can be and Lee will get traded, maybe Thomas as well. If we’re going for cap space next year that will be the moves. If we want Hicks there will be room for him.

@44

I think that’s one of the reasons they’re trying to dump Lee. Not just for salary but also just to have another roster spot open. Of course dumping Lee as opposed to trading matching salary likely involves giving up a pick which would be fucked.

Looking at the Summer League roster, we could have a glimpse at some combinations of ”real” lineups for next season:

Frank, Dotson, Knox, Hicks, Williams, Kornet, Robinson, Trier… this could be fun!

Looks like Kornet got Willy H money, so that will be a mildly interesting subplot this next season. Should they have kept Willy, or was it okay to get a couple of seconds for him with Kornet being a better keeper (can shoot threes)?

I have no problem with the Knicks apparently moving on from OQ, as I think it is the right thing to do, but yeah, why did they not trade him for something at the deadline like most of us here thought was the right thing to do? That and McD’s signing throws some serious questions into the (admittedly minor but not inconsequential) moves made/not made at the trade deadlline.

Were they so focused on getting a young PG, eventually settling in on Mudiay, that they missed other opportunities? We’ll probably never know, but again most of us here thought that the Mudiay deal was an overpay (fine to deal McD off, but why throw in a 2nd rounder when the Knicks were taking on another year of a contract on a player who has been pretty awful for several years?).

They must really like Mudiay and Kornet. Let’s see what happens.

I’m not a huge fan of Hezonja because he hasn’t made much progress since his mildly encouraging rookie year…

Actually, this is untrue. He by far had his best season last year in terms of VORP and WS/48.

I don’t like the Willy trade from an asset management standpoint (even if my opinion on him is low) but maybe Perry and Mills were lucky on this one.

Listening to The Ringer, ESPN and Dunc’d podcasts, 2021 or 2022 could be the first year without the “one and done” rule, so in one of them you could have all the “last of the one and done” players plus all the HS prospects that’ll go straight to draft. A second rounder in that draft could be very valuable.

The more I look at Hezonja’s career trajectory the more I like him as someone to buy low on. He’s a bit of a JR Smith type in that he takes these insane shots that will drive you crazy, but there is a lot there to like about his game – particularly on defense. He became a bit of a ball hawk there and upped his STL% quite a bit. I think he’s still developing the guy just needs to be coached into smarter decisions on the court and the consistent minutes to do it.

My reasoning on Hezonja is that he was drafted by Orlando. The Magic are such a terrible franchise that it’s hard to actually gauge development of young players there, as they have probably been the worst ran franchise in the entire league the past 5 years or so. Unlike a guy like Mudiay Hezonja has shown flashes and some production here and there, and he’s still 23.

Of course, hard pass if it’s something like 3 years 25 million, but if it’s a team friendly 1+1 deal or something like that I’d much rather have him than Lee on the roster.

So according to the Post…

1) We want to give Robinson part of the MLE so we can stick to a one-year deal. This had BETTER include a team option for a second year, otherwise WTF? If he’s any good at all we won’t be able to keep him

2) we could stretch Lee. Again, WTF? Seriously? And have him AND Noah on the cap for 5 more years?

3) doing all of this would mean we could extend Kp now and still have space next summer.

I mean, I know it’s the post so a lot of it is probably nonsense but this would be a dolan’s razor trifecta of moves…

If we sign Robinson to a one year deal in order to preserve cap space next year I quit. The difference between a 2nd-year minimum rookie deal and the minimum cap hold is like half a million. That won’t be the difference to sign someone next year. The definition of penny-wise pound-foolish.

We need to sign Robinson to the deal we signed Dotson to. It’s pretty simple.

If we really need cap space next year we could always trade Hardaway or Knox. I like Robinson more than both of them.

Not sure why they like Hicks so much, I saw nothing with him that would even suggest that he is an NBA player waiting to happen..

1. Porzingis
2. Frank
3. Knox
4. Hardaway
5. Lee
6. Kanter
7. Burke
8. Kornet
9. Robinson
10. Mudiay
11. Thomas
12 Troy Williams
13. Dotson
14. Baker
15. Noah

If we offer a contract to Mario Hezonja, I guess you would have to cut Troy Williams, no?

@66 – yep, but if the goal is preserving space and there’s a chance he might be good, lock him up to the near-minimum 2nd year cost! As others have said – it’s marginal compared to a min cap hold. Bit of he blows up this year and someone else offers him a bigger deal we have to eat a load of cap space to keep him. It makes no sense.

Actually, this is untrue. He by far had his best season last year in terms of VORP and WS/48.

He had a couple of good stretches last year. So he netted out better than his rookie year. But if you are going to be good you should be further along than he is 2 years after a somewhat promising rookie year at 20. Like I said, I don’t mind if they sign him for a year because he’s young and could get better, but there’s a reason the Magic are letting him walk. He’s not good (at least yet).

If it’s true they only want to give Robinson a 1 year deal he must be a Grade A flake.

So then why draft him at 36? If you’re not intrigued enough by his upside to invest in a pittance of a contract that covers his age 19 and 20 seasons, then take somebody else at 36. If he’s that much of a head case, go with a different player.

This team, man. I hope this isn’t true.

If Hezonja is commanding offers close to the MLE, I’d say thanks but no thanks. He’s still a very bad NBA player. He could be out of the league in 2 years. I’d offer him 3 years, $12m.

No point getting him on a 1 year deal where the best case scenario is he provides harmful wins and then we have to re-sign him for big bucks.

Yeah, what the hell changed between picking him 36th like 10 days ago and now? Why not go with someone like Melton or Khyri Thomas or Bonga then?

It makes absolute zero sense to give a 2nd rounder a 1 year contract with not even team options, in any situation.

Can’t make this stuff up: Celtics say rookie first-round pick Robert Williams, who was introduced here Friday, missed his flight back to Boston and was not present for the start of summer league practice today. Williams already overslept an introductory conference call.— Chris Forsberg (@ESPNForsberg) July 1, 2018

@79 Re: Robinson, do teams negotiate contract terms with second-round picks before they draft them? If not, then how were the Knicks supposed to know that he would quibble over a 1+1 deal, or that the other guys you mentioned wouldn’t? In any case, I wouldn’t stress too much about it, he’s gonna get signed. Now if his agent (is it his dad?) says either a two-year above the minimum or a one-year, no team option…then what do you do? If it’s me, I’m a little nervous signing a guy to more than one year when I haven’t even seen him play in over a year! Based on what I’ve seen, I’d probably guarantee him the second year, especially with O’Quinn gone, but I’d sure like to see him in at least a scrimmage, or better yet, a summer league game before making the offer…

Here’s a serious question: If they offer him a one-year deal and he accepts, at what point can they extend the deal? Do they have to wait until he becomes a UFA or can they revise the deal after summer league?

Here’s another question…can they sign him to a a two-way contract and assure him that if he plays reasonably well, they’ll sign him to a multi-year deal?

Yeah, I get being cautious with Robinson, but it’s so little money it really doesn’t seem to matter much. Besides, even if they didn’t negotiate the contract beforehand you have to believe they actually contacted his agent or himself at any point in the scouting process right? I don’t know, it just doesn’t seem to be a deal that holds any value for the Knicks, if he is indeed promising, if he’s not it won’t matter anyway.

@86

This is why I can see at least the logic in taking a flyer on Hezonja. For a 22-year old scoring wing, his numbers aren’t terrible. Let’s compare him to our very own $72M man, Timmeh Hardaway:

Mario Hezonja
.544 TS%, .515 eFG%, 9.3% TRB%, 10.0 AST%, 2.4 STL%, .066 WS48, 22 years old

Tim Hardaway Jr
.533 TS%, .496 eFG%, 6.6 TRB%, 12.7 AST%, 1.6 STL%, .067 WS48, 25 years old

Pretty similar, except Mario is younger, probably has more raw talent and probably won’t cost $18M a year. That said, how many Tim Hardaways are we gonna have on this team? Hezonja doesn’t seem to be a good fit with the other guys we have. A lineup with Hardaway, Hezonja and Knox in it offers a lot of mediocre scoring and not a lot of anything else.

@88

Yeah, it’d have to be a 3 year deal with a team option on the 3rd year or something to really make it worth it.

Lebron James to the Lakers

fuck the Lakers ugh

Lebron, Cousins and Lavar on the same team together? Let the circus begin!

Yeah, that’s crazy. I think LeBron will not win a title there, but if he does, he surely must be considered the GOAT even by the doubters (starting with me.)

I would think it’s only a matter of time before LeBron drives Lavar and Lonzo out of town.

I would so look to get in on that deal.

Wait is boogie on the Lakers too? I’ve been at the beach all day.

George just signed with OKC right? How can he leave?

George just signed with OKC right? How can he leave?

He meant took himself out of the running for the Lakers.

@103

I meant leaving free agency.

Lebron..always hurting the Knicks.
The tank is over.
Unless Love and Hill turn into Daugherty and Price 2.0 with Sexton waiting in the wings as Terrell Brandon 2.0 lol

Maybe there’s a chance Cleveland won’t be too bad. They do still have Clarkson, Hood, and Nance. Now we find out if Lue really has legit coaching chops

Whenever you have a chance to sign a young player with any promise at all you want to maximize the number of years. If you can slip in team options that’s great but more years at minimum money is always better. If the player works out you have a cost-controlled asset for many years, if he doesn’t the cap repercussions are almost nothing. That’s what Morey does and you only have to hit on one Patrick Beverley to make up for all the other players that don’t work out.

If we signed Robinson to the Dotson deal, his cap hit would actually be about $800,000 more than a minimum cap hold but that is nothing if he’s a good player. Our ability to sign a star is not going to hinge on the less than a million dollars. If it does then trade Robinson, stretch him, there are lots of options.

What’s up with Ariza going to the Suns? They suck and have like 4 small forwards they’re trying to develop.

@111 I agree, but my point is that it’s too early to judge, let’s see him play in summer league before weighing in. It sounds like we don’t have to sign him until after that, at least that’s what happened with Dotson.

We got Hezonja

1 year/$6.5 million is okay.

Really would have liked a team option.

Still, it’s an okay move. That’s a step in the right direction!

Woj also said Hezonja chose us over other teams because he liked Fizdale. Which is vaguely promising, albeit coming from such a marginal player.

Yeah we are nothing if not adept at trading expiring assets at the deadline

i like the one year deal for hezonza.
i like a team with a lot of young players. Suck together.
Better than watching veteran suck.

Yeah we are nothing if not adept at trading expiring assets at the deadline

We’re due!

And just like that, LeBron James became irrelevant in the postseason for the remainder of his career. Nice job, Team Bron!

So we’re definitely calling him Super Mario right??

The more I think about it, the less I like it. They have no Bird Rights and his cap hold will be high, so what’s the upside here?

So he has to be the starting three, right? There’s no way you can start TH2, Kanter and Hezonja, though, especially if Burke is starting.

i really don’t like it…. i mean it seems like we’re trying to put together some wins for this year….

Hard tanking isn’t going to yield a bottom spot like it used to. I am not averse to picking up young promising players under this new draft structure.

Well, like I said earlier, in a vacuum I’m not opposed to Hezonja, who seems to still have a bit of upside. But for this particular situation, on this particular contract, I don’t really see the point. Maybe you flip him at the deadline, that’s about the only potential long-term benefit I see here.

Hezonja should not cut into any our guards’ playing time since last season proved he was his most effective as a swing forward.

The Hezonja signing is better than bringing back Beasley, for sure. Hey, if the guy plays well and the FO decides wisely to not pursue a big name free agent next summer, maybe he could be a long-term piece.

All of this is no problem if he stinks.

I hope we all understand that it’s not as easy as saying that every deal needs a team option for a second year. It’s possible that players like Hezonja are not interested in a second year with a team option. If you were a UFA who believed that you had finally turned the corner and wanted a big payday, would you want to lock yourself in to a $6.5 mill salary for a second year? It’s not like potentially valuable players are lining up to sign cheap 1+1 team-option deals.

Seriously, why can’t we be happy that it wasn’t a 2 year deal with a player option? Or a guaranteed $6.5 mill for 2 years? It’s not the ideal deal but not the worst one possible either.

I agree, Z-Man. There’s no incentive for a guy like Hezonja to sign a deal with a team option. And yes, thank God it’s not the “Ron Baker Special,” the player option/NTC contract we’ve all come to fear so much.

This signing is kind of a nothingburger really. It’s not really good or bad. It just sort of… exists. He’ll be entertaining to watch for a year I guess.

Agreed, JK but I’ll add this. It sounds like this level of deal (and possibly slightly better) was available to MH. That he said that he wants to play for Fiz is promising. In addition, as Clash Fn points out, it could be Beasley insurance. I was at the Beasley game vs. the Celts, and there is no doubt that Beasley wins us some games on his own. And he’s definitely not part of the long term answer, while MH might be.

Over 3 seasons Hezonga is a .332 three point shooter and .418 overall. And he doesn’t do anything else particularly well, like pass or rebound.

Yeah, but I hear he can climb ladders like a motherfucker.

ok
so lance stephensen, KCP both signed with lakers, now thats a superteam!

Hardaway, Hezonja and Knox are all really duplicative players. It’s like the small-medium-large of guys who shoot a lot with medium efficiency, don’t draw fouls and have precious few secondary skills. Hezonja does get some steals, you gotta give him that I guess.

Yeah, but we have Frank, Lance and Lee to draw fouls! Oh wait,,,

Mario Hezonja in 30 games as a twenty-two year old starter last season:

30 mpg
14.0 ppg
.460/.371/.833
1.8 3PM
5.6 rpg
2.2 apg
1.4 spg
0.6 bpg
1.6 TO

I will take it.

The Lakers need to trade for Kanter…

We need to get in on a trade for Ball now. A shame Noel isn’t on our list too.

Hezonja is a rich man’s Dougie McBuckets. I wonder if we got rid of the latter because the former was our radar?

Why would we want Deng?

We should load up on all the shitty contracts, Anderson, parsons, deng… which is the worst in the league?

Oh yeah it’s melo

What could we get that would make me want that contract? Ball?

BINGO!

Hmm…A torn meniscus, that shot, Lavar, Kleptomaniac little bro…

And he was still a .053 WS/48 player with all of that in his rookie season.

1 year/$6.5 million is okay.

Really would have liked a team option.

Still, it’s an okay move. That’s a step in the right direction!

I agree, given that comments above indicate he can play some defense. The Knicks do need a forward, and it looks like Hezonja is replacing Beasley. If that’s the case, he’s younger and has upside that Beasley probably doesn’t.