Knicks Morning News (2016.12.29)

  • [NYTimes] Hawks 102, Knicks 98 | Overtime: With Carmelo Anthony Ejected, Knicks Show Defensive Grit but Fall in Overtime
    (Thursday, December 29, 2016 5:36:55 AM)

    An elbow in the second quarter cost the Knicks their star. Offensive miscues late in the game cost them a chance to escape with a win.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Celtics and Grizzlies Are Good. In This N.B.A., That’s a Problem.
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:13:08 PM)

    Boston and Memphis are on track to make the playoffs, but a few teams, particularly the Warriors and the Cavaliers, have separated themselves from the pack.

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ jack-of-all-trades guard sidelined by wrist injury
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:47:26 PM)

    ATLANTA — Things changed. Early in the day, Knicks guard Courtney Lee predicted he would be able to play through a wrist injury. Then he went through shootaround. The first thing to change was Lee’s optimism. “Wasn’t ready. I tried to give it a go at shootaround, had a lot of discomfort,” said Lee who…

  • [NYPost] Knicks miss ejected Carmelo as offense sputters in OT loss
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 5:43:08 PM)

    ATLANTA — So often in life — and basketball — you beg for a second chance. The Knicks, playing shorthanded much of the night after Carmelo Anthony was ejected on a Flagrant Foul 2, got a reprieve. Then another. And another. And another. Suffice to say there were chances and moments that presented themselves all…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony tossed for this cheap shot to the head
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 3:47:34 PM)

    ATLANTA — The Knicks already were down one starter, Courtney Lee, who sat with a wrist injury. And then they lost Carmelo Anthony, who was bounced on a flagrant 2 foul for hitting Hawk Thabo Sefolosha while the pair went for a second-quarter rebound on Wednesday. Anthony and Sefolosha originally were called for a double…

  • [NYPost] George Karl even rips Carmelo Anthony when he praises him
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 2:59:58 PM)

    ATLANTA — Despite George Karl’s harsh words in his new book, Carmelo Anthony’s former coach is rooting for the Knicks to make the playoffs. “Here’s what I’ll say now: Melo is a hell of a player, the best offensive player I’ve ever coached. I owe him as much as anyone for my having a great…

  • [NY Newsday] After Carmelo Anthony ejected, Knicks fall to Hawks in OT
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:54:22 PM)

    Anthony was ejected in the first half after forearming Thabo Sefolosha in the face. Without him, the Knicks fought, but came up short, falling to the Hawks, 102-98, in overtime Wednesday night in the start of a three-game road trip.

  • [NY Newsday] Courtney Lee misses game, has ailing wrist drained of fluid
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:11:21 PM)

    Courtney Lee had fluid drained from his bothersome right wrist Tuesday and was unable to play Wednesday night against the Hawks.

  • [NY Newsday] George Karl says Carmelo Anthony was more concerned with brand than basketball
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 12:34:00 PM)

    ATLANTA — George Karl isn’t done taking shots at Carmelo Anthony and Phil Jackson, but the former Nuggets coach said he’s rooting for them to do well.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks fall to Hawks in overtime, 102-98
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 10:43:45 PM)

    The Knicks fell to the Hawks in overtime on Wednesday night in Atlanta.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony ejected in second quarter for hitting Sefolosha
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:04:19 PM)

    Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony was ejected during Wednesday night’s game against the Hawks for hitting Thabo Sefolosha in the face as the two went for a rebound during the second quarter.

  • [SNY Knicks] Courtney Lee to sit out against Hawks with sore wrist
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 6:13:05 PM)

    Knicks guard Courtney Lee will sit out Wednesday’s game against the Hawks with a sore right wrist, the team announced.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks at Hawks
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 5:53:00 PM)

    The Knicks head to Atlanta to take on the Hawks at 7:30 p.m. on Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Three challenges facing the Knicks: Defense, Noah, and Thomas
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 10:40:13 AM)

    As the Knicks look to contend, they’ll need to take care of business against the stronger teams of the league. Here are three of the other more pressing issues the team has faced as of late…

  • [SNY Knicks] Jackson, Buss end engagement
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 7:13:17 AM)

    New York Knicks president Phil Jackson and Los Angeles Lakers president and co-owner Jeanie Buss have ended their engagement, both citing their professions and distance as part of the reasons why.

  • [ESPN] Thursday’s Knicks News: Melo ejected in OT loss to Hawks
    (Thursday, December 29, 2016 5:40:07 AM)

    Thursday’s Knicks News: Melo ejected in OT loss to Hawks

  • [ESPN] Hawks’ Sefolosha: Melo punched me in the face
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 9:02:42 PM)

    Hawks’ Sefolosha: Melo punched me in the face

  • [ESPN] Lee sits, but MRI shows no broken bones in wrist
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 7:54:32 PM)

    Lee sits, but MRI shows no broken bones in wrist

  • [ESPN] Carmelo Anthony: Knicks need a plan in place on defense
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 11:15:04 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony: Knicks need a plan in place on defense

  • [NYDN] Knicks fall to Hawks in overtime as Rose, Porzingis falter late
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 7:51:01 PM)

    The Knicks hung with the Hawks on defense, but failed to finish them off in regulation and ran out of gas in overtime.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony ejected for shoving Thabo Sefolosha in face
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 3:57:48 PM)

    That wasn’t very mellow of him.

  • [NYDN] Courtney Lee has fluid drained from hand, Kristaps seeks revenge
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 2:32:06 PM)

    Courtney Lee had fluid drained from his problematic shooting hand and hoped to play Wednesday against the Hawks.

  • [NYDN] George Karl says Carmelo Anthony puts brand over basketball
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 12:26:54 PM)

    George Karl is determined to sell some books and burn every bridge doing it.

  • [NYDN] Trevor Ariza waited for Mavericks player outside locker room
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 8:12:29 AM)

    Salah Mejri took trash talking to a new low.

  • [NYDN] Dwight Howard says he never considered Knicks in free agency
    (Wednesday, December 28, 2016 8:05:38 AM)

    Phil Jackson could’ve gone in a different direction from signing Joakim Noah to a four-year contract.

  • 159 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.12.29)”

    Optimists… Noah=Lazarus
    Pessimists.. No minutes for Willy, gotta play promising 22yo

    Jokic with 16 points, 11 assists, and 8 rebounds in Denver’s win last night. I guess I can kiss my dream of Phil ever trading for him goodbye.

    I thought Jokic could be had when Mike Malone was inexplicably playing Nurkic over him in the beginning of the year… unfortunately it seems he has turned his brain on.

    Big takeaway from last night: The 4-5 and 3-6 matchups in the East playoffs are going to make for some tough viewing. What an ugly basketball game that was.

    I wonder how much the light recent schedule (haven’t played a B2B in 3 weeks, and 3 of the last 4 games have followed 2 days off) has helped Noah – he looked awfully good last night. Something I’ll have my eye on moving forward.

    I do think we win last night if we play Courtney Lee and not Sasha Vujacic. Courtney Lee wouldn’t have missed those wide open attempts from 3.

    Derrick Rose sunk us bad last night. He was able to get to the foul line but continued to miss shots as he forced his offense. Those floaters protect his health at the expense of efficiency in a game where possessions are finite. KP was anti-clutch down the stretch with the fumbled offensive rebound and the missed free throw, but our guards were absolutely terrible last night. They went a combined 16-52 from the field.

    We can’t bring BJ back if this is who he is. He can’t get over screens and he can’t score.

    One thing is for sure though; if JoNo plays as good as he did last night or even 75% as good as he was last night we will win a lot more games

    One thing I am very encouraged by is how much better our defense looked. I don’t know if it was because Holiday/Lance/Sasha > Lee/Melo/Jennings on defense or because Noah showed up, but we looked like a team that could stop its opponent on several possessions in a row at times.

    Our defense looked a bit better because Melo was ejected. But then, the offense suffers a bit. The ship is always leaking.

    Melo’s got to stay in games, and Rose has to stop being so selfish late. Did he really miss 19 shots? 19?

    The silver lining is Noah’s best game, but ruined by two supposedly “star” veterans tossing the game away.

    Also, H really needs to get Willy and Kuz each 10 minutes per game no matter what. Yes, they are going to make mistakes, but they need the experience. Also, way too many minutes for Sasha last night.

    Some thoughts:

    – As I’ve been saying ad nauseum, you gotta give Noah some time before really evaluating him because he basically didn’t play for a full year, and has more intangibles in his skillset that take time to see in our stats.

    – What a game from Holiday and KP. As Clyde said on that missed FT, he should go to sleep comfortably knowing he tried, and sometimes the ball doesn’t go through the hoop.

    – Melo’s a dumbass. Don’t think that was a F2, but still, a dumbass.

    – Vujacic played 28 minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Part of the reason the defense looked better is because Atlanta just isn’t a good offensive team anymore. It’s kind of easy to lose sight of because they still sort of superficially resemble the team from two years ago that hijacked the Spurs beautiful system and were a top offense with Korver and Carroll bombing 3s, but the Hawks have slipped badly on that end over the last couple years. Their o-rating is sandwiched right between the powerhouse Nets and Suns at 23rd in the league.

    When a player like Rose misses 19 shots, it’s more like 13 or 14 because at least a few turn into Kobe Assists and a few invariably rim out because of pure luck. So I’d rate Derrick Rose as a solid top 5 point guard because Jernigan Grant has never even sniffed 4 Kobe Assists in a single career, much less a quarter against the league’s best team two years ago. I used my eyes in the composition of this post and also my contributions to civilization. I am basically Zach Lowe on steroids. Eye test. Optimistic. All-Star Game. Penetration. Gets to the rim. Leader. Wins. Hustle. Garbage time. PER. Points. ACL surgeon. 11 rings. Jim Dolan.

    When a player like Rose misses 19 shots, it’s more like 13 or 14 because at least a few turn into Kobe Assists and a few invariably rim out because of pure luck. So I’d rate Derrick Rose as a solid top 5 point guard because Jernigan Grant has never even sniffed 4 Kobe Assists in a single career, much less a quarter against the league’s best team two years ago. I used my eyes in the composition of this post and also my contributions to civilization. I am basically Zach Lowe on steroids. Eye test.

    You’re so stupid, Jowles.

    Used to make some valud points with the ocassional dumb conclusion (like Chandler was more valuable than Melo or the strange infatuation with Cole Aldrich, the scrub who wasn’t according to you).

    But lately, you spend your days insulting people, re-hashing stupid debates and pretending reality does not exist; yes, repeat with me: Rose is not a good player anymore, but he has not been nearly as bad as Jowles predicted.

    You have lost all credibility.

    Theo the troll misunderstanding the purpose of trolling

    there can be only one troll per side per timeframe in this board, theo gonna fight for his market share against this sudden attack from jowles

    We talk about how Atlanta isn’t a good offensive team, but its not like we’ve shut down bad offensive teams either. Lets just be happy we did a good team job on defense for once.

    BTW, the eye-test is far more comprehensive, accurate, sophisticated and valid than any of the dubious, myopic statistical attempts at evaluating players that statistician-wannabes embrace as the gospel.

    Stats are best used to confirm what the eye test suggests, not the other way around.

    Basketball and player performance are way too complicated to be reduced to PER or any other narrow-minded little formula.

    The proof is the endless arguments where different opinions are backed by different little formulas. A demented, pathetic excercise in statistical futility and mental masturbation.

    Shoot, losers!

    The Knicks are the #16 offense and the #24 defense, and rank 19th in SRS. They were 1-1 in October, 8-8 in November and so far are 7-6 in December. They have a negative point differential and their strength of schedule is right around league average. They have not really improved substantially as the season has progressed. From a Four Factors perspective, it is hard to see how they really could improve much with this roster. Their team eFG% is regressing and now ranks 22nd, and they don’t get to the free throw line. They’re a consistently terrible defensive rebounding team, they foul too much and they don’t create turnovers. They don’t have the personnel to contain dynamic guard play.

    If you take in their performance as a whole they look very much like the slightly under .500 team that conventional wisdom said they were before the season started. They also have not had any key players miss significant time with injury.

    well, at least we will always have those 27 days when Derrick Rose looked like a slightly above average PG to remember fondly.

    there can be only one troll per side per timeframe in this board, theo gonna fight for his market share against this sudden attack from jowles

    You’re damn, right, Brunio!

    Gotta get the blog back from Rube and Jowles!

    🙂

    Is it just me or is Wally’s love of “shot creators” getting to be a bit much. Unless he is under company orders he might. ya know, mention that passing is a good thing and missing a ton of shots is not. Rose has played better than I expected and anl, but even friggin Marbury would pass off his drives, and not only as a last resort.

    The NBA shouldn’t even bother with keeping score. They should just let both teams play for 48 minutes, then have judges pick the winner based on the eye test like they do in a boxing match or something. All of that statistics shit, like counting up all of the baskets and using that to determine a winner, is for pathetic dateless dork nerds. The eye test was good enough for the Romans when they built the pyramids, so it’s good enough for me.

    Theo is the worst because he combines his incessant, one-note, unrealistic pessimism with a total disregard for statistics

    It’s the most humorless, decrepit shit

    for all his faults, Marbury was actually a lot better than Rose, honestly.

    he did have a .575 ts% while averaging 8.1 assists and 2.8 turnovers in the 2004-2005 season, playing alongside Tim Thomas, Jamal Crawford, Kurt Thomas and Nazr Mohammed.

    Joakim Noah is looking pretty good though. It looks to me like he’s somewhere near 100% healthy, and he’s still a really good player when he’s at full health.

    Problem is he’s rarely at full health. We’ll see how long this lasts.

    Anyone still interested in tanking? I think its a real possibility we don’t make the playoffs.

    yeah, why tank when we can have so much fun watching great games like the one yesterday in the first round of he playoffs!

    i’ve said this before but starting oquinn or giving him at least 25+ mpg will do wonders for our win total…. and one of the ways we can immediately improve our projected win total….

    that being said…. i’d actually prefer missing the playoffs at this stage since there is probably very high reward for getting into the lottery this year…

    The eye test was good enough for the Romans when they built the pyramids, so it’s good enough for me.

    Basketball stats are far from being science, no matter what the clueless think.

    Stats are a tool, not the truth. Digest that.

    “Kyle O’Quinn is this year’s Lance Thomas”

    Theo @20: Basketball and player performance are way too complicated to be reduced to PER or any other narrow-minded little formula.

    Hey how about an experiment:
    The Stats Team vs. the Eye Test Team. Each team selects a roster.
    The stats heads have to explain their choices with stats and nothing else. Basically the WS48 + BPM + VORP leaders in each position are in, the others are not.
    The eye test folks can do whatever they want, as long as at least half the roster is made of last year’s all nba and all star players.
    In the end of the year we’ll apply a fantasy league test and see who wins.
    For the Stats Team I suggest DRed and Cute Jowles.
    For the Eye Test team Reub and Theo.
    I actually think JK47, who pointed out the value of science in building our civilization, at least for the past 2000-3000 years, would approve.

    The same player can be on both teams, as the stats heads and eye heads would probably agree on Lebron, Durant, AD and maybe a couple of others.

    For the Stats Team I suggest DRed and Cute Jowles.
    For the Eye Test team Reub and Theo.

    Heh, pick one country’s wacko jester to fight the other’s sane soldier.

    I think you would be very surprised if you saw the league leaders in WS/48.

    the starting five would be Chris Paul, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and Rudy Gobert, with Curry, James, Lowry, Westbrook and Isiah Thomas right after those 5.

    if you think that wouldn’t be instantly the best lineup in the NBA, I dunno what to say.

    False dichotomies here, again…

    Some people are saying stats are VERY important, some are saying they are flawed and LESS important. It’s not like some people (sans Theo) are saying stats is dumb, and others saying eyetest is dumb. It’s mostly, “where are you on that gradient?”

    if you think that wouldn’t be instantly the best lineup in the NBA, I dunno what to say.

    So my experiment has to change. How about if we restrict the selections to rookies only? Or rookies and 2nd year players?

    the top 15 players in the League according to VORP are:
    Westbrook, Harden, Giannis, Paul, Durant, James, Lowry, Leonard, Butler, Draymond Green, Curry, Cousins, Gobert, Anthony Davis and Marc Gasol.

    a group of scrubs, really.

    to get the effect of making the eye test team look better, ingmarr, you’d have to go to WP48, but even that wouldn’t really work; you’d get a team of Paul, Giannis, Dwight Howard, Gobert and LeBron (DeAndre Jordan is a little bit ahead of LeBron, but makes no sense to pick 3 centers)

    @ Bruno, I’m getting this year’s WS/48 ranking (BRef) to be:

    1. Chris Paul • LAC .294

    2. Kevin Durant • GSW .288

    3. James Harden • HOU .274

    4. Kawhi Leonard • SAS .262

    5. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL .257

    6. Jimmy Butler • CHI .250

    7. Rudy Gobert • UTA .250

    8. Kevin Love • CLE .239

    9. Stephen Curry • GSW .235

    10. LeBron James • CLE .233

    I mean, without looking at the stats, I’d probably go with Paul/Harden/Giannis/James/Davis, but it’s subjective, and we all know the small deficiencies in WS. I’d say Howard, Gobert, Butler, Love are overvalued here.

    Bruno there has to be a set of restrictions on roster choices that would allow for the difference between both approaches. It could be the Rose threshold. We have to get to a point where the eye test people would select Rose, and the stats people would take another PG.

    The true star players of the NBA generally do well in advanced metrics.

    Fake star players like Carmelo Anthony and Derrick Rose do less well.

    @JK47 I bet some people, even here, would take Melo over Butler and Love.

    You could also restrict choices to 1st and 2nd year players and control for minutes played.

    A Few Observations:

    > So adorable watching the newbie troll wannabes tryin’ to encroach on Jowles’ turf. They’re D-league to Jowles steady Spurs. Why the old maestro isn’t even thinking about splashing some Chlorox on these amateurs.

    > Speaking of stats, KP’s got an 81.7% career FT% so that means I think he had a 54.5% chance of making all 3 of those free throws last night. And Theo, I suggest you never play a game of Russian roulette without first checking the stats.

    > The new CBA should have included an annulment clause which would have allowed all parties (i.e.teams) involved in a trade to reverse the trade within a year if all agreed to it. Chicago could bring back “resurgent” hometown hero Rose and we put General Jerniman Grant on the proper battlefield and return Robin to his brother’s nest for a few days before we trade him to the Wolves for Tyus Jones or Brook is traded.

    > Main conclusion of last night’s game: Rose needs Melo and Melo needs Rose.

    > RE eye test vs stats, I once proposed an all star game pitting top WP48 players against top WS/48 players showing the team members. WP team was kind of laughable compared to the WS/48 one.

    If you take current (or even peak) Melo over current Jimmy Butler or Kevin Love you need your head examined

    How many games would you have to watch to get an effective eye test report on every player in the NBA? Seems like it would be a lot.

    What most people refer to as the “eye test” isn’t really the eye test. It’s the “this guy is famous so he must be good” test. What are you going to believe, Derrick Rose’s crummy efficiency numbers or the MVP trophy he has sitting on his shelf?

    @51 I’m not a Love fan but I’d be ecstatic to do Melo for Butler.
    @52 DRed Yeah I think so too. You’d have to watch many games. That’s why I think some fans probably use stats as a quick fix.

    @45 I might have found older stats then, but most of the same players are there.

    the thing abou the stats vs eye test has never been about the top players, those are represented in both sides pretty much equally.

    it’s exactly as JK47 said, it’s the scoring stars, like Melo, Rose, and many others in the history of the game like Marbury, Francis, McGrady, Iverson etc.

    also, a lot of the discussion comes from small sample size dudes, which WP48 generally rates very highly… one of the top WP48 players this season is Lucas Nogueira, who is a monster defensively but an extremely limited offensive player… it’s in the discussion about those guys that it gets complicated.

    What most people refer to as the “eye test” isn’t really the eye test. It’s the “this guy is famous so he must be good” test.

    Right. I totally agree.

    I think it’s a combination of being famous + making flashy plays.

    a guy like Iverson is the best example, if you look at wp48 and ws48, he’s been an average or below-average player for most of his career.

    but if you watched him play, and saw that small dude jumping around, making impossible layups and crossing over people, he looked like a true superstar.

    however, the highlights don’t show the 5 straight jumpers he missed or the matador defense on a play.

    If you look at the career leaders in WS48 for example, you will see pretty much every top superstar that won titles or is a legendary player… and I don’t think it’s a complete coincidence that players like McGrady or Iverson are bad in those stats and never won a title in their careers.

    If that’s what you thought is an eye test, of course it’s not reasonable. But I think eye tests are different. If you watch someone and can tell he’s injured, then you have an eye test telling you to take his recent stats with a grain of salt.

    @57 Is it fair to label Mcgrady’s career WS/48 as flat out “bad”? After all, he did lead the league in WS/48 in his monster 2002-2003 season. His career average gets weighed down by his multiple unhealthy seasons where he was regularly missing anywhere between 20-40 games. Iverson, I agree with, he was absolutely a chucker. I just don’t think it’s appropriate to box in McGrady with Iverson.

    @59

    you are right, McGrady was actually a pretty good passer and rebounder in his prime years, and he shot lots of free throws that year, which helped his efficiency massively.

    Iverson is the best example, yeah.

    the starting five would be Chris Paul, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and Rudy Gobert, with Curry, James, Lowry, Westbrook and Isiah Thomas right after those 5.

    if you think that wouldn’t be instantly the best lineup in the NBA, I dunno what to say.

    A perfect example of the stupidity and dangers of blindly following stats.

    Any fucking statistical method/formula that results in LeBron not being a starter in the NBA Best Team needs serious adjustment.

    BTW, I’m NOT saying stats are useless – I’m saying they have to be used with intelligence and reason and are best when combined with the far more encompassing eye test. Eye test + stats = best method. Stats only= faulty. Eye test only = faulty.

    Eye test + stats = best method. Stats only= faulty. Eye test only = faulty.

    Everyone agrees with that. The amount of eye test and stats are up for debate, however. I don’t believe that stats should just be used to confirm what the eye-test suggests, because that’s stupid. If the statistics disagree with what people see (e.g. Melo is was and has always been a slightly above average player vs. Melo was and has always been a top 10-15 talent), and you throw them out, what is the point of using statistics at all?

    Simple box-score stats do count as statistics as well. You can’t tell me that you can watch with your eyes and tell the difference between a player with TS% of .530 and TS% of .550.

    A perfect example of the stupidity and dangers of blindly following stats.

    Any fucking statistical method/formula that results in LeBron not being a starter in the NBA Best Team needs serious adjustment.

    Not sure if trolling or what, but stats can’t really adjust for effort. Those stats are about production.

    It’d be like saying that Assembly Line A is better than Assembly Line B because A makes 100 toys a day and B makes 90. The follow-up question is, “Are they running at max capacity?”

    The objective fact is that A, over the course of, like, 30 days, will produce more toys than B, but if it’s possible that B can, at best, make 120 toys a day, then maybe during peak season (i.e. playoffs) it will outproduce.

    Again, for the billionth time: these stats are descriptive. LeBron is arguably the best player of the shot-clock era and is still somehow playing peak ball (in the playoffs this is demonstrable), but there are more productive players during the regular season. This guy has been to six consecutive Finals, won 3, and is still a top-10 player in production during the regular season.

    Best player, but not most productive. The two are not mutually exclusive, as awkward as it might sound coming out of your mouth.

    All of this said, there are very few players who can mail it in during the regular season and even make the playoffs. Most guys play hard because the NBA is ridiculously full of talent. LeBron James is a weird outlier and discussing him rustles all of my jimmies because people invariably say stupid things about him, like the preceding comment.

    I don’t even know if theo is trolling or just trying to find ways to justify his opinion.

    either way, couldn’t be bothered.

    You can’t tell me that you can watch with your eyes and tell the difference between a player with TS% of .530 and TS% of .550.

    It was several years ago but there were lots of people on the site who said, “Well, I can’t, but NBA decision-makers definitely can! It’s called expertise, dummy.” (Paraphrased.)

    The hardest part of determining TS% through eyetest is that things like layups and dunks can really screw with your perception of a player’s ability. Guy can brick a bunch of midrange jumpers and then flush a few buckets in the paint and your brain will have a hard time figuring out where his value comes from.

    Again, for the billionth time: these stats are descriptive. LeBron is arguably the best player of the shot-clock era and is still somehow playing peak ball (in the playoffs this is demonstrable), but there are more productive players during the regular season. This guy has been to six consecutive Finals, won 3, and is still a top-10 player in production during the regular season.

    Best player, but not most productive. The two are not mutually exclusive, as awkward as it might sound coming out of your mouth.

    This has to be the best example ever of sheer stupidity and blind adherence to stats.

    Most importantly, it proves my point beyond any doubt: a clueless moron like Jowles would keep LeBron out if the starting lineup because he is not in the NBA’s top 5 ‘most productive’ players.

    Never mind Jowles himself admits LeBron is the best player! So, why not believe, too, that the title of best player should be given to the ‘most productive’ one?

    No wonder these morons are always arguing about Grant vs Rose, showing how their little hand-picked, skewed data shows they are right…

    Just use fucking common sense and repeat with me: any stat that results in LeBron out of the NBA’s top 5 players needs immediate and drastic revision or can’t be used without other tools…like the eye test!

    Where is Ruru to witness Jowels spewing unheard-of levels of sheer stupidity in blind defense of his favorite stats?

    if you think LeBron has been one of the top 5 players in the league in the first 30 games, your eye test is kinda bad.

    Simple box-score stats do count as statistics as well. You can’t tell me that you can watch with your eyes and tell the difference between a player with TS% of .530 and TS% of .550.

    No, you can’t. The same way TS can’t detefmine the enormous difference between Tyson Chandler and LeBron James.

    See why stats are limited and can’t be used in isolation? Once again: stats are best when they are used as part of a bigger process of player evaluation.

    We have a guy that hates stats that thinks the Knicks are a lock for ECF and maybe the finals. We also have a guy that hates stats that thinks the Knicks are one of the worst teams in the league and have no hope of ever resembling a good team. Both of these views come strictly from the eye-test. Seem consistent? Relevant? Or subjective beyond all belief to the point where it’s not even worth talking about?

    stats are best when they are used as part of a bigger process of player evaluation.

    Stats are best used to confirm what the eye test suggests, not the other way around.

    Huge difference there, pal.

    The eye test takes into consideration effort, speed, fluidity, defense, anticipation, judgement, tendencies, physicality, attitude, resiliency AND numbers. When more ‘resolution’ (precision) is needed, the intelligent analyst goes for detailed stats.

    Pretending that the eye test is just looking at how many points Player X scored is a blatant lie. In fact, relying on those primitive numbers (for those morons who do it) is the crudest statistical approach and puts the ‘analyst’ squarely in the camp of stat-heads, only at the bottom.

    effort, speed, fluidity, defense, anticipation, judgement, tendencies, physicality, attitude, resiliency AND numbers

    So basically, Terrence Ross is the best player on the Raptors?

    effort, speed, fluidity, defense, anticipation, judgement, tendencies, physicality, attitude, resiliency

    One can argue that all of these things are a means to an end. The end is numbers/production/actual actions that can be mathematically proven to lead to winning. The argument is that spending energy and paying too much attention to these means to an end often lead people down the wrong path when it comes to player evaluation.

    I know this is a troll but:

    “The eye test takes into consideration effort, speed, fluidity, defense, anticipation, judgement, tendencies, physicality, attitude, resiliency AND numbers. When more ‘resolution’ (precision) is needed, the intelligent analyst goes for detailed stats.”

    if you’ve done all of this and watched the Cavaliers at least once, and still think LeBron is one of the 5 best players in this season, well, it kinda just shows how bad eye test can be.

    I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mail in a regular season like he’s doing… the thing is that he’s such an otherwordly talent that his low-effort performances are better than 95% of all the basketball players ever.

    Hillary Clinton sucks.

    I didn’t vote for Hillary, but still: shh.

    Like, definitely be quiet. Stop talking.

    pelicans and rockets up next on a road back to back…

    hoping we rebound after that clusterfuck performance against atlanta – but, both pelicans and rockets are playing well at the moment…good chance we’re ninth or worst in the conference by the time we get a chance to get right against the magic…

    think though by the time january finishes up we may be about 3 or 4 games over .500…

    The Pelicans are beatable, but yeah, the Rockets are very tough, especially for this particular squad, so if the Knicks could somehow beat the Rockets, that would be amazing.

    Remember when Barkley took Iverson with the #1 pick in the all-time all-NBA fantasy draft? Lolz

    D’Antoni should probably be COTY right?

    It could also be Fizdale just for stalling the decline of a team that has had no business being this good for this long. The Grizzlies are giving Vince Carter 24 minutes a game!

    Jazz have had their preferred starting 5 on the floor in one game this season, a Nov. 6 win over the Knicks. Could happen again tonight.

    Per Tim McMahon

    Crazy

    Other than Golden State and Cleveland, the Rockets are probably our worst matchup. Harden probably has the 2 games against us circled on his calendar, he can pretty much do whatever he wants against us.

    @83 but analysts and former stars know everything about the game right? that was so insane lol

    the pelicans don’t have fast guards to abuse the knicks d, so i’d say it’s a pretty damn winnable game.

    it will be a major struggle vs the d’antonis tho

    No wonder these morons are always arguing about Grant vs Rose, showing how their little hand-picked, skewed data shows they are right

    Which guy is better?

    skimming the posts it seems like this board really needs to take a collective deep breath and immediately begin screaming about how espn’s real plus minus is a black box that couldn’t hold herman snellen’s jock. so here is where all the knicks are ranked as of today’s update (this is RPM so it is per-minute, not total):

    Porzingis #42
    Noah #92
    Carmelo #94
    KOQ #99
    Billy H #168
    Lee #186
    Kuz #189
    Holiday #209
    Sasha #290
    Jennings #322
    Rose #364
    Lance #385

    hey ptmilo…nice snellen reference – i actually had to go look that one up…yeah, love watching those shows on the science channel which describe how much “fill in the blank” data the mind creates when assessing visual input…

    “Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see.”

    Here’s how it breaks down by position ranking

    Porzingis #10
    Noah #22
    Carmelo #19
    KOQ #24
    Billy H #43
    Lee #35
    Kuz #33
    Holiday #39
    Sasha #58
    Jennings #47
    Rose #58
    Lance #75

    Without getting too caught up in the rankings, that says the Knicks have some decent players but no real difference makers.

    When a player like Rose misses 19 shots, it’s more like 13 or 14 because at least a few turn into Kobe Assists and a few invariably rim out because of pure luck. So I’d rate Derrick Rose as a solid top 5 point guard because Jernigan Grant has never even sniffed 4 Kobe Assists in a single career, much less a quarter against the league’s best team two years ago. I used my eyes in the composition of this post and also my contributions to civilization. I am basically Zach Lowe on steroids. Eye test. Optimistic. All-Star Game. Penetration. Gets to the rim. Leader. Wins. Hustle. Garbage time. PER. Points. ACL surgeon. 11 rings. Jim Dolan

    Took this as tongue in cheek funny with truth in jest values. Well played, Jowles

    Instead of feeding the troll, what do we think it would take for Phil to sell at the deadline? I’d hold KOQ because he’s young and on a great contract, but Jennings and maaaaaybe the big contract guys could potentially bring in some goodies. Would anyone not support that if we’re .500 or below?

    that says the Knicks have some decent players but no real difference makers.

    It also says we’re right to feel we could deal from a position of strength in a trade involving one of our bigs.

    And it says that the eye test is pretty much in line with their statistical analysis, with the possible exception of Sasha (that high?) and Rose (that low?…will say many posters).

    Re: Lance, I’m guessing that 75 is as many people in the NBA who play his position.

    I don’t think I’ve seen anyone mail in a regular season like he’s doing… the thing is that he’s such an otherwordly talent that his low-effort performances are better than 95% of all the basketball players ever.

    I started to think LeBron was coasting during the regular season in the 2013-2014 season, after his second title with Miami. His 2012-2013 was marvelous and he won his fourth MVP, so he set a really high standard, but I have this theory that LeBron REALLY tried to win the DPOY award in 2013, to match Jordan and once for all surpass Kobe Bryant on the GOAT discussion. And he was really close to it, finishing second to Marc Gasol (that Memphis team was a defensive beast – and the Spurs swept them!).

    I remember reading na interview, and LeBron sounded VERY frustrated. IIRC, he pointed that nobody could defend 5 positions like he was doing at the time (not very humble from him, but it was true – Kawhi and Draymond were sophomores).

    So, I think that after getting so close, he gave up, since his body could not afford carrying the team both offensively and defensively anymore. In 2013-2014 (EYE-TEST ALERT), his defense clearly slipped, and now he saves it just for the playoffs or occasional regular season games against contenders (Spurs, Pacers, Warriors), teams that piss him off (Bucks, recently) and, forever, the Knicks, of course.

    LeBron’s the best, but he doesn’t play like it in the regular season, it’s pretty simple, actually. And, guess what, statistics tend to confirm that.

    what do we think it would take for Phil to sell at the deadline?

    I was pretty on the fence about this until the game when our second unit did so well and almost closed out the win against the Pacers or Magic, can’t remember which. I felt that trying to compete now is foolish as the Dubs and Cavs will own the league for years to come. On the flip side, if there’s even a glimmer of a chance CP3 comes here, it makes sense to hold tight, hope Melo doesn’t fall off a cliff, hope Noah’s resurgence is the real Noah, hope Lee is the complementary player he seems to be. That team would be real solid and could break through if fate played a hand (injury to Steph, etc). I also strongly believe that having a good team around him will help KP grow, and he is without doubt the future of the franchise.

    But seeing the second unit do so well, all dudes 26 and under (and cheap), it just seemed clear that we could make a lot of good trades for picks and rebuild extremely quickly – like in one year. It would not be shocking that, if we got a great PG with a high draft pick this summer and some other good young players, we could be just as average as we are this year…except we’d be average with lots of upside, and experience together as a team to be a contender as the Dubs and Cavs fall off.

    I felt like I was seeing the future, and I liked it. But…a tear-down after just building the team up would be REALLY difficult for Phil to do, given the culture of MSG.

    @ 91

    Are you kidding me that almost every point guard and his backup are playing better than Rose this season? Wow o.o

    Nerlens Noel is out there for the taking. If I am Masai Ujiri, I’m calling Colangelo twice a day to make a trade. By the way, the Cavs also should see what the Sixers are asking for Noel (amazing how they torpedoed his trade value by putting him out of the rotation).

    Unfortunately for Phil, I don’t think the Knicks have something to seduce the Sixers. The frontcourt is established, and no first-roud pick shall leave New York City, so…

    I’d like Noel, but unless Philadelphia wants to really dump him for nothing, the Knicks have no assets they would want.

    if the Knicks did not choose to rebuild after last season, there’s no way in hell they’re doing it now… it’s frustrating but it is what it is.

    the only hope for at least a semi-rebuild is if Carmelo asks to leave.

    There’s no rebuilding happening, and there’s no semi-rebuilding happening either. Because of a lack of foresight, Phil will probably have little choice but to offer Derrick Rose a horrific contract in the offseason, locking us into the mediocre-and-certain-to-decline core we already have in place.

    The Melo-Stat years brought us one good 54-win season and one first round playoff series win. Anybody think the Melo-Noah-Rose years will top that? I kinda don’t.

    Ntilikina is averaging 3.9 pts/game so far this year and people in here really want to tank for him. Throw it all away because why exactly?

    If I’m remembering correctly part of rpm is based on last season’s (or maybe the last few years) stats, so it could be Rose is undervalued because he was so terrible last year. But he also hasn’t been very good this year

    Stats enable the feeble minded to rate and rank players based on arbitrary and sometimes faulty data so that they don’t have to see and interpret things on their own.

    Stats enable the feeble minded to rate and rank players based on arbitrary and sometimes faulty data so that they don’t have to see and interpret things on their own.

    Okay genius. By your own estimation, this Knicks team is loaded with kickass players, each one personally selected by mastermind GM Phil Jackson.

    How come the team is one game over .500? What are the eye test reasons for this team’s mind-numbing mediocrity? Wait, let me guess. Team needs more time to “gel.” That’s probably what you’ll go with. Half a season isn’t enough time for the gelling process to happen, amirite?

    #80

    It was a last ditch effort to change the stupid conversation you were having. Sew me.

    #101

    You cannot look a ppg. KP averaged o.7 ppg for Cajosol Seville when he was the same age as Ntilikina.

    Ntilikina is averaging 3.9 pts/game so far this year and people in here really want to tank for him. Throw it all away because why exactly?

    Is that a serious question?

    We tanked a few years ago to achieve the worst record in franchise history to draft a backup guy who was averaging 10 pts/game in one of the worst teams in spain.

    Hey guys, Apple just came out with a new device. It’s called the I-Test, you just point it at any NBA player and it instantly tells you whether he’s a good player or not.

    Could put the statisticians out of business.

    “We tanked a few years ago to achieve the worst record in franchise history to draft a backup guy who was averaging 10 pts/game in one of the worst teams in spain.”

    So then KP was drafted using the eye test? Interesting!

    Hey d-mar, it sounds like a great product for this site because less thinking.

    So then KP was drafted using the eye test? Interesting!

    I don’t know how KP was drafted.

    But I do know that pts/game are useless.

    One of the reasons I was somewhat at peace with the Porzingis pick (I fully cop to it being far from my first choice) was because he actually rated very well by Pelton’s draft model. So in a word, reub, no.

    I loved KP from day one because I had faith in Phil knowing a LOT more about evaluating talent than I ever will. But it seems that most of you know much more than he does 13 rings aside.

    @104

    Stats enable the feeble minded to rate and rank players based on arbitrary and sometimes faulty data so that they don’t have to see and interpret things on their own.

    Okay genius. By your own estimation, this Knicks team is loaded with kickass players, each one personally selected by mastermind GM Phil Jackson.

    How come the team is one game over .500? What are the eye test reasons for this team’s mind-numbing mediocrity? Wait, let me guess. Team needs more time to “gel.” That’s probably what you’ll go with. Half a season isn’t enough time for the gelling process to happen, amirite?

    So I use my eyes and I use stats and I see the same thing with both. This team is better than I thought it would be but not by much. I had placed an L next to the Atl game at the start of the season (I had them going 1-2 on this trip) and I had the Knicks winning 43. They are currently 3 games ahead of that pace.

    Yes, this team will continue to gel; it’s just natural. And 31 games is not yet half a season. They are trending upward.

    And I don’t know if any of you have noticed this, but look at the April schedule. We play 6 out of the 7 games at home. The one away game is against Memphis on the tail end of a back-to-back. And if you look at the last 10 games of the regular season, 8 are at home. By hanging around where we are, if luck holds out, we could be a very dangerous team during that stretch run.

    Oh, and Reub, we also drafted Hernangomez that same year.

    I also don’t know how much we need to tank to get Ntilikina BTW.

    Last time I checked he was expected to be drafted everywhere between 5th and 15th in mock drafts.

    So there is a possibility if we don’t reach the playoffs

    Yes Phil traded for Willy as I recall. How many of you would have done that? None.

    @117 It just may be that Ntilikina is tanking to come down to our drafting level. But I’m no expert unlike so many of you.

    reub wrote: Ntilikina is averaging 3.9 pts/game so far this year and people in here really want to tank for him. Throw it all away because why exactly?

    Because I want to hear if Clyde pronounces his name “Nicotine” and then when Nicotine is smoking hot on the court, I want to say TANKS PHIL!!

    I didn’t really believe we would be discussing the merits of a draft pick based on ppg in this board in 2016.

    european teams are well known to not give minutes to youngsters, and Ntilikina has amazing physical tools + great court vision and he’s already a lockdown defender.

    Ricky Rubio was a VERY highly rated player when he was a youngster and even he only played about 20 minutes a game. (edit: for reference, Manu Ginobili, who was a mega superstar in Europe and the best player in the entire Euroleague, played 30 minutes a game in Italy… Ntilikina is playing for a tier 2-3 french team that’s 8th in a weak french league and he’s getting 13 mpg).

    tl,dr? succinct summary of today’s discussion:

    On Rose:
    Pessimists…WS/48=.061, WP48=.029. RPM=58th out of 85, VORP=0000.00000
    Optimists….EYE TEST

    Optimists…….Eye test trumps stats
    Pessimists….::face palm:: Eye-Yai-Yai Test

    Yes Phil traded for Willy as I recall. How many of you would have done that? None.

    Well, I’m not a goddamned GM, I’m a guy who talks about basketball on the internet, so hooray for Phil for earning his 500 billion dollars and making a good trade.

    Phil has put together a “meh” team that’s not bad but not good, and he has structured the roster in such a way that the team has most of its cap space tied up in players in their decline phases, which does not bode real well for the future. As the young players improve, the old players will decline. If you’re a fan of perpetual mediocrity, you’ll love the Phil Jackson Knicks.

    But hey, he knows more about basketball than me, random guy on the internet, so he must be an AWESOME general manager.

    yeah, this comparison is really, really stupid.

    I don’t care if a GM knows more than me, that’s his freaking job; I care if he knows more than his fellow GMs in the league + more than the possible alternatives available in the market.

    so far, Phil looks like he’s right down the middle.

    Re Ntilikina:

    From draftnet:

    “Weaknesses: He really needs to add some muscle to his body or else he could have problems at the next level … He hasn’t been tested at a senior level yet … His shooting release looks a little odd at times and that’s the main reason he isn’t a consistent shooter from long range yet … He needs to become more vocal and learn when he has to take over a game … At times he is too unselfish and too keen to pass the ball and as a result he looks passive … He must add some aggressiveness to his game … He has problems finishing through contact at the rim due to his thin body and at times he looks like he is even avoiding contact, settling for a mid-range shot … He has problems against physical game … He isn’t always focused on defense … At times he forgets to keep a low stance when he is guarding his opponent and as a result he can be crossed easily … He relies too much on his length to make steals when he gets crossed, which leads to bad fouls … He has problems defending the Pick and Roll, looking lost at times … Stronger players can post him up”

    They have positive things to say as well but tanking for this guy is something that only Philly would do.

    I know you are trolling, but check DraftExpress latest on him, updated yesterday… seems just a bit more than “they have positive things to say”

    Strengths:
    -Strong physical tools for a point guard at 6’5 (possibly without shoes)
    -Frame continues to fill out
    -Has exceptional length
    -Smooth athlete who can operate at different speeds
    -Unselfish player who thinks the game at a high level
    -Excellent court vision, particularly in the pick and roll, where he’s capable of making complex reads and delivering the ball decisively and accurately in tight spaces for easy baskets.
    -Plays the game with impressive confidence and poise.
    -Significantly improved perimeter shooter, with feet set and especially off the bounce. Made shots at a very high rate all tournament long, with impressive volume, degree of difficulty and confidence. Has good touch, which lends itself to his ability to finish off the glass and convert from the free throw line.
    -Made 17/29 3-pointers at the U18s and 12/13 FTs. Now 33/64 (52%) for 3 on the season in 27 games.
    -Lockdown, multi-positional defender. Outstanding lateral quickness, footwork, timing, length and smarts allows him to smother opponents on the perimeter. Switches seamlessly between all three backcourt positions.
    -Makes plays defensively on and off the ball. Reads the floor, knows the scouting report and where to position himself to rotate and help, far better than your average 18-year old.

    edit: here’s the link, there’s a video of him destroying Italy in the european under-18 championship.
    http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Frank-Ntilikina-77051/

    DraftExpress lists him as the 12th pick in their mock draft. Do you actually want to tank on a season for the 12th pick in a draft? Hey he might turn out to be great but when I want to gamble I go to Vegas.

    there’s no need to tank to get the 12th pick, just being slightly worse than the Knicks are today would put us in that region… that’s why I still hope Ntilikina would drop to us.

    I would definitely tank to get Markelle Fultz, 100%.

    @130

    Do you actually want to tank on a season for the 12th pick in a draft?

    Considering that he’s an 18 year old kid playing in a legitimate European league against grown ass professional men – YES!

    @131

    That mock is going to change really fast. Recent talk has him going as far as top 5.

    the best comparison for Ntilikina I saw was, he looks like a taller Dennis Schroder with better defensive ability.

    that’s a pretty damn good player if you ask me.

    Strengths:
    -Strong physical tools for a point guard at 6’5 (possibly without shoes)
    -Frame continues to fill out
    -Has exceptional length
    -Smooth athlete who can operate at different speeds
    -Unselfish player who thinks the game at a high level
    -Excellent court vision, particularly in the pick and roll, where he’s capable of making complex reads and delivering the ball decisively and accurately in tight spaces for easy baskets.
    -Plays the game with impressive confidence and poise.
    -Significantly improved perimeter shooter,

    OMG that reads like the next Magic Johnson. After Jeanie dumped him, Phil might just be unstable enough to make this happen!

    for taller Dennis Schroder who also happens to be a potential elite defender?

    hell yeah.

    it’s not guaranteed he’ll turn out to be that, so I would still rather get Fultz / Ball / Smith Jr.

    You would actually tank on a season for the 12th pick in a draft? Really?

    if you didn’t ignore my post number 131 you would already know the answer.

    If Ntilikina ends up being a top five pick, which is possible, yes I would.

    if his projection is 12th overall? obviously not.

    Thunder starters:

    10-39 FG, 11-18 FT, 33 points.

    Woof. Westbrook couldn’t even get a single assist with those scrubs shooting.

    Boston has a real chance to beat the Cavs in Cleveland, holy hell.

    edit: then Jae Crowder happened.

    I can’t believe the Jazz stole Rudy Gobert in the 27th pick of such a horrible draft.

    The time to tank has long since passed. At this point you might as well ride the “win now” mediocrity train to its grim conclusion. A “tank” would ideally come with some sort of true rebuild, and that isn’t really possible because of Melo’s NTC.

    Purgatory isn’t so bad.

    A NTC is as binding as the player’s resolve. The fact is that we’re not that far from being a lottery team, at which point its a matter of when Melo chooses to leave.

    can we tank and pick up George Hill in the draft?

    he’s eviscerating the Sixers right now.

    edit: he’s+31 in the game lmao

    for a player who didn’t play for a month? and Philly was playing really well, they went to the second half ahead.

    he has 16 points 7 rebounds 6 assists 3 steals and a block on 6-8 shooting.

    I like George’s game but its Philly dude.

    Besides, he seems kind of injury prone these days.

    hm, let’s see.

    the Sixers allow their opponents to shoot 50.6 FG% per game, Atlanta allows a 51.1%.

    The Sixers defense is not that bad anymore, and a 21 points 8 rebounds 6 assists 3 steals 1 block on 8-10 shooting in the first game back from injury… that’s impressive to me.

    That’s 19th worse in the league, Bruno.

    And Philly is playing with no Embiid – who I am sure is keeping their FGA% that low.

    I know it is, which is far away from the worst in the league, like Philly was until recently.

    of course I exaggerated, but the performance was still very impressive to me watching the game (eye-test!!!) and seeing the numbers.

    and Noel played really well in limited minutes, the Sixers sucked big time everytime he got replaced by Okafor.

    Embiid is not the reason the Sixers are stunning everyone with a 7-24 record or whatever they have.

    Here’s a little stat for you:

    For all players who have played at least 300 minutes in any season since 1973, Embiid ranks #4 in per-possession turnovers. This season. Like, right now.

    #4. Four. The number is four.

    Westbrook is #2 and Harden is #5, but they’re point guards who are going to set records for usage/touches, most likely.

    Embiid, a center, is #4 for most turnovers per possession since 1973. Change the minutes-played to >500 and he’s #2.

    As good as he’s been on defense and at shooting, he has been absolutely horrid at holding onto the ball. Historically bad. All-time record-setting bad. Someone-spray-this-mother-fucker’s-hands-with-adhesive bad. This is objectively true, and for Sixers fans, I hope that this is a rookie-year thing and not a portent of future underachieving. Or a small-sample thing that will work itself out over time.

    Your eyetest might falter here, but I assure you that he’s turning the ball over a lot, and turnovers are bad for winning basketball games.

    Embiid is not the reason the Sixers are stunning everyone with a 7-24 record or whatever they have.

    That’s a mighty nice little diatribe you went on. The problem is that its not even addressing my point – which was that Embiid is the reason behind Philly’s improvement in FGA. He’s 9th in BLK% and one of the best rim protectors in the league.

    I wasn’t even addressing the rest of what you’re writing about so its a bit of a wonder who you’re arguing with here outside of yourself.

    But, by all means, don’t allow the facts of my argument stop you…

    Shamorie Ponds just dropped 26 points in a victory over #13 ranked Butler. We gotta draft that kid and let Brandon Jennings walk.

    Philly’s improvement is largely attributable to Embiid. He’s not playing.

    Yeah, how could I possibly think that you were saying Embiid was the reason for the Sixers’ “improvement”

    yeah ok

    @156

    I saw Ponds’ highlights. He wrecked shit up. Dude has an Isaiah Thomas quality to his game.

    @157

    Well, you could have read my point in the context of my discussion with Bruno – which was about Hill’s performance against the Sixers D. But that would mean you actually consider someone else’s argument with as much detail as you write your posts, a task you seem rather incapable of doing from what I can gleam.

    But, please, continue…

    Comments are closed.