[New York Post] – Wed, 07 Feb 2024 03:04:00 GMT
- Jalen Brunson’s ankle injury overshadows Knicks’ win over Grizzlies
- Knicks’ Jalen Brunson avoids severe ankle sprain after scare vs. Grizzlies, per report
- Scenes from withstanding a Grizzly comeback on Clyde and Breen night
- Jalen Brunson injured late in Knicks’ win over Grizzlies
- Knicks Declaw Grizzlies But Lose Brunson in Scary 4th
[New York Post] – Wed, 07 Feb 2024 04:16:00 GMT
- Jalen Brunson, Josh Hart gift Clyde Frazier and Mike Breen 25th anniversary jerseys
- Mike Breen, Walt Frazier still calling it like they see it 25 years later
- Walt Frazier, Mike Breen reflect on 25 years together as Knicks voices: ‘Uncanny chemistry’
- Mike Breen, Clyde Frazier reflect on their uncanny chemistry ahead of 25th on-air anniversary
- Knicks stars thrill broadcasters Mike Breen, Walt Frazier with gifts
[Deadspin] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 18:35:00 GMT
The Knicks, Ryan Arcidiacono are cure to NBA’s scoring surge
[New York Post] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 14:11:00 GMT
- Knicks’ 2024 NBA trade deadline guide: targets, assets
- 2024 NBA trade deadline tracker: All the latest news, rumors, deals
- Knicks at NBA trade deadline: Latest on Quentin Grimes, Bruce Brown and more
- Knicks Trade Rumors: Latest Buzz on Bruce Brown Jr., Jordan Clarkson, Olynyk, More
- A Trade The New York Knicks Must Consider
[hoopsrumors.com] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 14:09:00 GMT
Trade Rumors: Bucks, Wright, Suns, Mavs, Hornets, Knicks, Magic, Bulls
[New York Post] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 20:54:00 GMT
- Derrick Rose considered NBA retirement after Knicks breakup
- Grizzlies’ Derrick Rose Says He Considered NBA Retirement After Knicks Exit
- Derrick Rose, returning to MSG on Tuesday for the first time as an opponent in nearly five years, sa
- Derrick Rose Returns to Madison Square Garden: A Journeyman’s Tale
- He’s a Hall of Fame Player: Knicks HC Gives Derrick Rose His Flowers as Ex-MVP Returns to Old Stomping Grounds
[Bleacher Report] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 19:37:21 GMT
- Fresh Trade Ideas from Latest NBA Rumors: Upgrading Knicks, Mavs, Bucks and Others
- When is the 2024 NBA trade deadline? Everything to know
- NBA trade board 2024: Everything to know about 50 players on the market
- NBA Trade Intel: Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Cavs, Mavs, Nets, Pistons
- Lakers, Warriors Among Teams Most Desperate to Make a Move
[Posting and Toasting] – Wed, 07 Feb 2024 01:09:16 GMT
Rookie Knick picked to compete in Slam Dunk Contest
[Hoops Hype] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 23:22:42 GMT
- Knicks rejected Mavericks trade offer for Quentin Grimes
- Knicks Rumors: Latest on Alec Burks, Quentin Grimes, More Ahead of NBA Trade Deadline
- Knicks ‘Quickly’ Rejected Mavs’ Trade Offer to Acquire Quentin Grimes
- Would Quentin Grimes Help Jazz At Trade Deadline?
- Latest Quentin Grimes trade rumor should relieve Knicks fans
[Bleacher Report] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 13:41:15 GMT
Knicks Must Trade for Hornets’ P.J. Washington for Championship Push amid NBA Rumors
[New York Post] – Wed, 07 Feb 2024 07:22:00 GMT
- Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson set to begin on-court shooting soon
- Knicks Mitchell Robinson progressing, to start on-court activities after All-Star break
- Knicks injury updates: Mitchell Robinson (ankle surgery) to resume on-court activities after NBA All-Star break
- Mitchell Robinson (ankle) expected to begin on-court work after break
- Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson ‘Progressing’ in Ankle Injury Rehab, Tom Thibodeau Says
[Sports Illustrated] – Wed, 07 Feb 2024 07:22:19 GMT
Derrick Rose’s Reverse Layup Went Viral In Grizzlies-Knicks Game
[Sports Illustrated] – Tue, 06 Feb 2024 19:58:54 GMT
- NBA Names All-Star Game Injury Replacements for Joel Embiid, Julius Randle
- Trae Young, Scottie Barnes named injury replacements for Eastern Conference
- New York Knicks All-Star Julius Randle’s Replacement Revealed
- Young, Barnes to replace Embiid, Randle in All-Star Game
- Trae Young, Scottie Barnes named as injury replacements for NBA All-Star Game
[The Journal News] – Wed, 07 Feb 2024 07:09:31 GMT
This day in sports history: New York Knicks vs Miami Heat
159 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.02.07)”
I thought the game was won and skipped the 2nd half… how did we let the lead get to only 4 pts entering the last 2 minutes? đŽ
Memphis hit their first 9 attempts from 3pt range in the 4th quarter.
I think it was Begley’s report on the injuries that said it seems like they are being extra cautious and could keep OG and Grimes out thru the All-Star break. Problem is with now Brunson and Hart being banged up that’s a less than ideal situation. Knicks have 4 tough games remaining til the All-Star break, if they don’t add reinforcements by tomorrow afternoon could be a rough week ahead.
I found an interesting article by John Hollinger in The Athletic. He predicts players who might be traded this week based on the needs of the selling team. Those needs fall into three categories: Expiring contracts that have to be traded now or the team gets nothing for the player, players that could be traded to reduce or eliminate tax bills, and players that are likely needed as matching salaries in trades for a useful player. Iâm not sure I believe in the cases in the matching salary category, but the other categories are pretty robust and include two Knick trade targets, Tyus Jones and Bruce Brown. Hollinger expects that these deals will happen right at the deadline as the selling teams pick whatever the best offer is.
The full article is here
https://theathletic.com/5254748/2024/02/06/nba-trade-deadline-rumors-2024-hollinger/
We got to 101 pts early in the 4th and then it seemed like someone put a lid on our basket at the same time Memphis started to make it rain three pointers.
On the surface, it was that Memphis got hot from 3. But there was a lot more to it than that.
The Knicks have this disturbing tendency to drop the ball when they get up by 25-30 points. They start taking terrible shots, don’t get back on D, don’t close out on shooters, and start fouling drivers. They truly look like a different team than they do when the game is close. So the leads dissipate very quickly until they eventually start respecting the game again.
And it’s not just the bench mob…it includes Brunson, DDV, Hart, etc. But the bench guys’ inability to get good shots off gets the defense off balance and then bad things start to happen. Then Thibs predictably brings starters back in and, well, you know…
Crazy. Brunsonâs ankle? Did the twist look bad, or were they just being careful?
Brunson’s sprain looked relatively mild, like one that will be sore for a few days and then fine. He walked to the locker room without a limp and was observed leaving MSG walking well. Hopefully they rest him vs. Dallas, but I wouldn’t bet on it.
Itâs also the second game in a row they got to the 4Q and then looked exhausted. Thibs has gone to the whip a lot during this run and itâs caught up.
Reporters have been throwing the term âinnings eaterâ around the Knicks lately and that is exactly what they need. Bruce Brown can come in here and give 32 minutes of rest to some desperately tired legs.
The Knicks have this disturbing tendency to drop the ball when they get up by 25-30 points.
Success is starting to spoil us.
Thx, Zman. Iâve only seen the stills of Brunson âin agonyâ on the floor. I hope they look worse than the reality.
I know the impulse is to blame Thibs for these injuries but I have a hard time thinking the evidence really supports this.
Brunson averages the most minutes on our team, which makes sense because he is our best player. But he is 11th in the league in most minutes per game (35.8).
Randle is second on the team and 16th in the league (35.4).
The players ahead of Brunson are Doncic, DeRozan, Maxey, Miles Bridges, Durant, Van Fleet, Trae Young, Booker, Coby White, Anthony Davis. Tatum, Fox, Sabonis and Mitchell are between Brunson and Randle.
The rest of the top 25 are Giannis, Lillard, Mikal Bridges, Scottie Barnes, Anthony Edwards, Dejonte Murray, Lebron, Panchero, and Bam. The difference between Randle and Bam is less than a minute.
Point being, for the most part these are all the top starters on their teams. Most of them are all-stars or all-NBA players and many of them are one good to great teams.
No other Knick cracks the top 25 in minutes per game this season.
Let’s give up all our picks and assets for Laurie Markkanen.
Actually not all our assets. Just all of our picks and Fornier.
Thereâs another team in the NBA that has a habit of building big leads against shitty teams and letting them back in the game – the Boston Celtics. But they tend to win all of them
Iâm not that concerned about last night, we were never gonna lose to the Memphis Mad Ants.
Or even Lauri Markkanen…….
Yeah, Brunson’s injury in and of itself didn’t look that bad, you just have to be concerned about any futher injuries to his ankle (if you’re an opposing NBA guard, you gotta try to make that dude use that ankle as much as possible, right?). But otherwise, I doubt he even misses a game (maaaaaaaybe one game).
And if Brunson gets hurt, Malachi Flynn will suddenly just be really talented and take over from Brunson. That’s just how this team rolls.
At the very least opposing teams would be really confused about who to guard with DDV and Evil DDV on the court at the same time.
It just feels like we gotta get to the all-star break and we should be ok. But yes, we should make a move to get one more body in here. It’s getting ridiculous.
But man, it could be great if we get everyone back for the home stretch (and Mitch for the playoffs) and we end up going into the playoffs healthy. Felt like last season we had no injuries but then by the time we got to the playoffs, the whole team was banged up. So maybe going through all this now will mean we’ll be healthy come playoff time.
Youâre right, Swift, that âblaming Thibs for these injuriesâ was too harsh. Itâs something I did right after the injury occurred and I was emotional.
It is, however, absolutely justifiable to point out that at times during
this post-trade run Thibs has been reckless with the minutes.
On the season, nothing really jumps out. But we tend to have these compressed stretches where guys are inexplicably playing entire second halves of the teamâs 3rd game in 4 nights.
It was January, for fucks sake, and youâre too scared to play Precious Achiuwa more than 8 mins on a B2B? Well now he has to play 40 mins. That tends to be how it goes.
Is this all Thibs fault? No. But is his recklessness contributing to the bad luck? Iâd say itâs very likely.
We didnât score for something like 7 mins vs the Lakers on Saturday. Last night we got to 101 pts by the start of the 4th and then looked shot for the next 8 mins.
These are telltale signs of a team that is worn down.
If you think Thibs is bad check out Luka’s minutes…
It’s time to play our scrubs a lot and lose some games but Thibs is not built like that unfortunately
I think injuries do cascade sometimes, but itâs not necessarily because of overuse. For example, if teams double and triple team Brunson because he is by far the best scorer we have left, it may increase the chance of his getting injured even if he doesnât play more minutes.
LOL. Maybe we should recruit evil Brunson too so that teams donât know who to defend.
For a while, the 4 through 7 seeds were so bunched up I could at least understand why the proposition of punting some games in the name of rest was dicey. I wasn’t necessarily against it, but when you grappled with the fact that a single game really could’ve been the difference between the playoffs and the play-in, at a minimum it wasn’t the easiest call.
Now, as a Knicks fan I know way better than to say we’ve definitively put ourselves out of the play-in range…so I’ll just say that certain developments have tilted the scale in favor of resting and punting a bit.
A few seconds before Brunson’s injury, he hit his defender with his left leg and, trying to find balance his right ankle seemed to twist a bit. Then on his next move towards the basket he twisted it and went down. I don’t know, something like this could definitely be fatigue related.
I think he should not play again until the all star, and definitely not play tomorrow. Hart also looks banged up, sit him down. It’s ok to lose a couple of games now.
Seeding matters though and most of the time injuries are just bad luck. Being up 15 with 6 minutes left is not a safe lead in today’s game when a team can hit 4 threes in 4 straight possessions and cut a lead like that in less than a minute.
We’re half a game back from the 2 seed. We’re also one 5 game losing streak away from being the 7th seed. I’d rather not face Boston or Milwaukee in the first round or even the second round if possible.
Like why should we wave the white flag against Memphis in January in a game we should DEFINITELY win 9 times out of 10. You do that too many times and next thing you know you’re a play in team.
I think Swift is right hereâ the Memphis game was one where it was worth it to grind out a win despite the fact that we had so many guys hurt, for the simple reason that you win that game the vast majority of the time. Low risk that you play your rotation guys a ton of minutes but still lose the game.
The game to punt is against the good team that you have little chance of beating with your skeleton crew rotation. Like some of the games coming up now.
I think the main issue with Brunson is not the load of minutes but the load of responsibilities without Randle. He is carrying a really large burden – it might not always show on usage (though I think it has increased), but you can see it. Randle was an outlet in several possessions where Brunson could just stand at the 3pt line and wait for a pass (his assisted 3pt rate has gone down too). And of course, given his style, he is bumping into bodies more often, thus increasing his injury risk.
Playing him fewer minutes would help in decreasing the opportunities for him to get injured, but it didn’t strike me as fatigue related.
Like why should we wave the white flag…
This is why I am torn on which side to take. Not so much about the seeding and losing a few games, but the group has developed so much character as a team that never quits, or as Jalen said after the Indy game–“we fight”. Don’t want to jeopardise it.
I am coming around to Bruce Brown if he costs a normal amount. He can fill in for a few positions, and play good defense. He also has played well in the playoffs. I think he can help a little in both the regular season (getting players rest and filling in for injuries) and the playoffs.
On another note, has anyone watched the Cavs play recently? They are winning a lot right now. Are they legitimate contenders in the East?
It matters a lot less than you think.
If you get a higher seed because youâre simply better, like Boston will, then sure it matters.
But if you get the higher seed because you went to the minutes whip in January while better teams didnât, itâs not going to help you when you face the better team in May.
Weâve seen this twice already. Neither Atlanta nor Miami needed a good seed to whup our ass.
Brunson came back in when we were up 20. He needs to trust the 2nd unit to hold a 20pt lead. And if they don’t, he needs to trust that the starters can pull out a win when it’s close. Our starters are playing big minutes in games we win by 15-20pts and there’s just no reason for it.
This whole minutes police and load management stuff reminded me of a video clip I saw yesterday of an interview with Buck Showalter on a podcast. He said after a game that one of the dunno if it was an analytical dept guy or a strength and management person but regardless it was suggested to Buck to sit a player the next day cause he did too much running the bases that night due to hitting 2 doubles and a triple.
I’m not one to go all old man back in my day we were tougher but some of the complaints nowadays about minutes, load management and innings/number of pitches is beyond ridiculous.
I recall the same thing being said about the Washington game. That was – not coincidentally – the last time we played at full strength.
I should point out, also, that itâs a false assumption that we would have lost either the Memphis or Washington game if we hadnât âgrinded it outâ with extra minutes. You can grind out wins with your bench, too.
I am not sure load management in baseball and basketball are analogous. Innings limits are now more of a function of loss of effectiveness (the second/third time through the order penalties, the impact of good relievers) than health. It’s hard to make that argument for basketball where keeping your best players on the court generally leads to more effectiveness.
I definitely thought Thibs reinserted Brunson way too early last night. Let it get to, say, 10, just to put an arbitrary number on it. Memphis cutting the lead to 20 did not justify that under the circumstances i.e. the whole damn team being injured.
That said, we need a damn innings eater even at full health, so the need right now has reached “dire” status. I’d even try to get both Brown and Burks if possible without overpaying. Sure, at 100% health the rotation would be crowded, but as the pro-DDV signing contingent was screaming at the top of our lungs all summer before being vindicated beyond our wildest imaginations, since when is that something to fret about?
Ironically, we pulled Brunson with a 10pt lead after his injury. While in, the Knicks ceded another 10pts of their lead. After leaving, the Knicks won by the same margin they started with, even if it looked a bit dicey for a second.
Thibs just needs to trust the 2nd unit.
See, I can get behind the idea that Brunson’s load and also his style of play could cause him to get more injured. I just don’t see the minutes themselves as an actual issue. And I feel like I’ve read somewhere that if you really want to prevent injuries, load management and taking full games off is a better way to do that. An extra few minutes in a game when the players are all ready playing, warmed up, etc…isn’t going to make a difference other than just increasing the amount of time they’re on the court and could potentially be hurt.
So yeah I guess if we still had IQ or traded for Brogdon or Randle had a full back up PF all season then maybe these injuries don’t happen. But it feels silly to say thibs should pull a start when we’re up 15 but there’s still; plenty of time left to lose the game.
Even if you don’t believe in exhaustion affecting players, if we assume 32min is his regular total, then in 40min he has a 25% increased chance of injury just by virtue of being on the court 25% longer. Even 36min, which he was on pace for yesterday, is a 12.5% increased chance of injury.
You should manage workload when you can simply because nobody gets injured sitting on the bench.
If you’re referring to Brunson, his regular total is 36 minutes, not 32. No all-star level player for a good team only plays 32 minutes a game.
Dude, we played 3 games in 4 days and OG Anunoby played 135 of 144 possible minutes.
That is beyond ridiculous.
Doncic is constantly playing hurt now because they can’t/won’t let his injuries heal properly.
I’m glad the Knicks medical staff seems to have some veto power over Thibs. Many players are hurt and playing through injuries now, but there are limits. Thibs, simply does not understand wear and tear. He’s incapable of thinking long term. Every game is a game 7 with him. He adds risk in these late blowouts by keeping players on the court too long and adds reinjury risk by not resting them when the injuries are already there.
We have 2 obvious examples of that this year.
1. Robinson came back into the game on the day he was already hurt. Who knows how much extra damage was done because of that.
2. When Grimes tweaked his knee the other day he also came back in the 2nd half. Now he’s missing games.
3. We might even be able to put OG in that category.
These two were mistakes that border on abuse and agents should get involved if players are too proud to say “I’m hurting and I don’t think it’s wise to go back in”. I’m telling you there is something “off” with Thibs and he needs to be called out. F him and his “pain tolerance”. We are trying to get healthy and win the playoffs. These games matter, but not at the cost of the future.
Fwiw, the Thinking Basketball podcast said Brunson has a 47% offensive load for the Knicks. According to them, that is nearly bumping the ceiling. This was before Randle got injured.
The more you do with the ball, opposed to standing in the corner a la Grimes, the more likely you are to get hurt.
One last thing.
It’s not just about average minutes. Playing 36 minutes most nights and 40 minutes here or there is fine if you are healthy and you are getting days off. Playing huge minutes on back to backs or when you are already hurting is the problem.
The other thing is itâs just stupid to assume that we will lose if we donât run these players into the ground.
Weâre winning games with OG Anunoby playing zero minutes. We could have won with him playing 36 instead of 44.
Precious played 40 minutes last night. He could have played 12 when Randle was healthy.
The Lakers went to frigginâ Boston, rested LeBron & AD, and kicked the Celticsâ ass.
Thibs isnât saving us from inevitable losses by killing these guys.
It could’ve been yesterday, I’m not sure he needed to break 30. And with how often we’ve blown teams out, he should be playing less than other stars.
(But yeah I probably should’ve checked)
It honestly was probably just his normal rotation
When the coach is allocating minutes poorly and multiple important players start grumbling about their role and minutes and potentially upsetting the chemistry.
DDV became so important in part because we traded Quickley and RJ who were both scorers and who both played in both units depending on the circumstances.
The RJ/Quickley trade made sense because we got OG, but going 2 for 1 is what opened the door to some of the depth and scoring issues we have now due to poor current team construction and injuries.
The backup PF issue was there from day one and screamed about by me and others before the season even started.
Adding DDV made basketball sense because management probably already had trading Quickley in their plans and knew that RJ at SF was the weak link (as expressed by Scott Perry saying the Knicks should be looking to get a longer defender at SF prior to the OG trade).
I was complaining about adding DDV because it was a neon sign saying “trade Quickley” which was very upsetting to me and a terrible Idea. Only the fact that was it was for OG mitigated the downside and made me happy.
It’s great that DDV is playing far and away the best basketball of his life and his helping bail us out, but we are in that position in part because of other roster mistakes and moves.
Strat I think the fact that the DDV signing allowed us to make a clearly beneficial trade is actually a point in favor of the signing
Anthony Mason in his final season as a Knick played all 82 games and averaged a league leading 42 mins per game!
That Wizards pick will almost definitely be in the 31-34 range, and Procida was picked 36th in 2022 and is regarded as a very legitimate NBA prospect. This is for an expiring 28 year-old with a decidedly low ceiling in Fontecchio.
The Pistons should be seized by the league.
Italians do it better!!!
Saw Woj in my feed and then it was that. So disappointing. And also baffling for sure.
The grumblings you refer to amount to a couple of quotes players gave after losses and never amounted to anything else. And the chemistry wasn’t upset. Potential chemistry being upset implies that chemistry was there in the first place.
Sorry but this is just not true. Trading RJ and IQ did not lead to our players getting hurt.
Brunson and Randle’s minutes didn’t shoot through the roof after RJ and IQ left. McBride got into the rotation, Grimes and Hart got a few more minutes, precious started playing some and OG took a ton of minutes.
Mitch got hurt BEFORE the trade. Randle got hurt because a dude decided to try and take a charge at the last second when he shouldn’t have. OG has elbow inflammation. Grimes tweaked his knee. Hart has been dealing with a nagging injury most of hte season. Brunson twisted an ankle, the most common injury in basketball.
We had hardly any injuries last season. No one gave Thibs credit for that but now these are all his fault. Does thibs also coach memphis or is their coach also not good at managing minutes or are injuries just part of the NBA?
Detroit trading for Fonteccio is so weird I think the Pistons must have another move in store. Like maybe they are about to trade Bogdanovic and Fonteccio is his replacement.
.
Game was over when Randle got hurt, maybe he should’ve been on the bench by then. Malika Andrews post game ..they are up 17 why is Randle still out there..
Are the Bucks imploding? 1-4 with Doc. Tied with the Knicks for 3rd. There’s great bust potential there, I think. They look like a possible 1st round, likely 2nd round playoff exit to me.
Given that Ainge is the person trading for Knox, maybe Knox will suddenly look like a valuable player once he gets to Utah
Pistons clearing space to offer Tobias Harris a max contract
I have no idea if youâre making fun of them or if this really their plan. Could go either way.
I don’t think we should’ve topped the offer because the fit here would be quite dicey, but the Cetics getting Tillman for two far out seconds is annoying.
I don’t know either…
Only makes sense to me if there’s an impending Bojan or Burks trade
There was over 4 mins to play, Iâll defend Thibs on that.
The greater issue here is this certifiably false idea that playing your bench a reasonable amount of minutes equates to âwaving a white flag.â
Minutes should be reasonably consistent game to game. When Thibs goes to the game 7 rotation randomly, itâs just a panic attack.
Thatâs double the return that Leon got for punting on Xavier Tillman.
I’ve always thought Tillman was pretty good but his offensive numbers this year are disgustingly ugly. You might be tempted to theorize that he’s overstretched given all their injury issues but the usage is still quite low. Anybody watch Memphis regularly enough to have a theory?
“have a theory?”
Have a hypothesis. C’mon Doogie, don’t make me do your job for you.
I don’t think this happened unless I’m misremembering something. We had the 38th pick in that draft, which we used to trade up from 27 to 23 (before trading 23 for 25 and a 2nd). Tillman was picked 35th.
No, it wasn’t. They were up 17 with more than 4 minutes left. They hit 4 three’s on straight possessions and we don’t score and suddenly it’s a 5 point game with more than 2 minutes to go. Seen this happen all the time in today’s NBA.
It’s unfortunate because 17 with 4 minutes left is getting close to when you would pull him. If it was 3 minutes left and 19, I’d say pull him. But 4 minutes is an eternity in the NBA.
If you’re pulling Randle at that point then you can’t justify keeping Brunson and OG and iHart in, right? You take those 4 guys out and our bench could easily shit the bed the rest of the way and we lose.
I’m a little sorry for Simone (Fontecchio) because I view Hardy as a better coach than Monty Williams.
Zach Lowe said the other day that the Celtics were very interested, him going to the Pistons comes a bit as a surprise but they have the cap space to re-sign him in the summer and maybe this frees up Bogdanovic or Burks.
Ironically, one of Procida’s best comp and “projected outcome” has always been… Fontecchio đ
“Mitch got hurt BEFORE the trade. Randle got hurt because a dude decided to try and take a charge at the last second when he shouldnât have. OG has elbow inflammation. Grimes tweaked his knee. Hart has been dealing with a nagging injury most of the season. Brunson twisted an ankle, the most common injury in basketball.”
It should be noted that both the Brunson and Randle injuries happened because of terrible positioning by novice defenders. Having to turn it up against goofy kid who are trying to show for their coaches often doesn’t end well. (although there was this infamous Ron Burgundy play…)
Yeah I could think Mcbride, Donte and Grimes bench unit could have held on for the win.
You got forgot the first incineration?
We ended up with 27 & 33. We took IQ at 27 then with Tillman on the board we traded the 33rd pick for a second rounder in 2023 bc that was going to be the double draft.
What do the Grizz plan to do at Center next season
Traded Adams and now Tillman
* 25 not 27
You’re right, but that 2023 second turned out to be the 31st pick!
Injuries are always partly due to bad luck, but you should edge as much as possible against them.
Not every game is a game-7 in January, not every missed game is due to players’ “pain tolerance”.
Memphis, with 13 men on the injury report (or maybe 12 because D-Rose played) used 10 guys in the rotation yesterday, including former 2-ways or undrafted Vince Williams Jr., Tosan Ebuomwan, GG Jackson and 5’8″ Jacob Gilyard.
We used 8, kept established NBAer Fournier glued to the bench and made G-League standouts Toppin and Charlie Brown Jr. non-paying customers.
We’re unlucky*, as a lot of other teams, but we never learn to help ourselves.
* When this wave of injuries start to mount I can’t help but think about the mid 80’s, when Cartwright, Robinson, King, Ewing and even Pat Cummings went down for months (and seasons!) and we had to scour rec leagues for the Ken “Animal” Bannisters and Rod Cavenalls of the world…
The 33rd pick ended up as the 31st pick in this past draft. It’s not at all clear those two future 2nds will be more valuable.
Maybe the Celtics get away with playing Tillman because they have all-stars at every position, but he’s one of the worst offensive players in the league.
They also don’t care if they win. If anything, they should try to lose.
Apparently we shouldn’t care either.
There’s a difference between winning & losing. There isn’t a difference between winning by 25 & winning by 10.
Makes sense. I’d be fine with sending out our own 2024 pick, since we very rarely lose anymore. Dallas’ would be tougher to swallow, but at least we wouldn’t have to worry about them tanking us out of it again.
Get ’em both!
The issue seems to be that Toronto doesn’t want yet another pick in this draft, while the Knicks don’t want to trade a future pick, even in 2025, because it would make a Star Trade a bit more difficult due to the Stepien Rule. I suppose they could give up our protected 25 pick and then hope like hell that we can trade one of this year’s two firsts for a pick in next year’s draft, which eliminates any Stepien issues. But if Toronto would take either our pick or the Dallas one, we’d be done by now, I’m guessing.
I know I’m super late to the discussion, but can someone explain to me why we need yet another 6’4″ guy who is a quite mediocre shooter (33% from three) but a very good rebounder for his size?
I realize we don’t have many players left standing, but don’t we still have a fairly deep stable of 6’4″ guys who can jump? And don’t we have gaping holes at virtually every other position right now (long wing, power forward, backup center, backup or god forbid even starting point guard)?
Doesn’t feel like an inning eater unless Josh and Donte go down…
And I’ve come around-ish on Brown. He’s not the ideal target, but I’m not sure an ideal one exists, especially if Portland isn’t going to trade Brogdon. Brown can play a lot of minutes, at multiple positions, apparently can be a passable backup PG, good defender, etc. Also big enough that you could play a Brown/Deuce backcourt, where Brown defends the taller opposing guard.
I donât know, but I did have the same thought already, and that was before I read that Khris Middleton hurt his ankle last night and left the arena in a walking boot using crutches. X-rays were negative, but still it is not a good thing for them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/khris-middleton-leaves-bucks-game-against-suns-with-left-ankle-injury/ar-BB1hTCbi
We have two picks in the 2025 draft, so we’d still have no Stepien concerns if we traded the MIL one (we’d have minor Stepien concerns if we traded our own 2025 pick, as I believe we then couldn’t trade our 2026 pick until it was determined the MIL pick would convey).
But we probably want to hang on to that MIL pick due to recent developments…
Except for backup C (which seems fine?) these are all roles that Brown can allegedly fill.
Really don’t like the idea of another poor shooter though.
Brown isn’t a point guard, but he’s a good enough penetrator and playmaker to make the ~12 non-Brunson minutes more palatable offensively and is defensively very versatile. Between Brown and OG we’d have an unusual number of high quality wing defenders. The fit is far from perfect due to his shooting, but like Alan said the perfect fit doesn’t appear to be out there and Brown’s shooting isn’t quite “just ignore him” level problematic.
Also, the rash of injuries has made me more sympathetic to bolstering our depth generally. We don’t want to be shit-out-of-luck if Grimes or Hart or whoever turns an ankle in the first round.
Basically, when you have the 5th best net rating, you should take seriously the idea that immediate upgrades are worth trading away some amount of future equity. Brown is definitely an immediate upgrade to at least some extent, so my take on the trade will come down to how much we’re able to negotiate down the price in future equity.
The Milwaukee pick will be a valuable centerpiece in the trade for Giannis when the Bucks lose in the first round. Let’s keep it.
That’s the thing. And if we give Toronto our own pick (lottery protected, top 8 protected, or whatever), Stepien applies until we know for sure we’re getting the Milwaukee pick in 2025. It doesn’t cripple our ability to make a big deal, but it takes us from being able to trade every pick and swap to only being able to trade most of them.
Is Donte DiVencenzo showing us that he could be a borderline all star player if he was given the touches and the minutes?
Bridges would get more love on the Knicks
I Remember Wilbon called it the worse home arena for Basketball as the home team although places like Charlotte and Washington are just as bad
https://twitter.com/BK_DJC/status/1755246478790963553
Yeah but long before that was clear we traded it to Charlotte along with three other 2nd round picks and a Denver 1st just to get rid of Kemba Walker. Oh well!
Pretty sure it was part of the Detroit deal with Burks & Noel
Donât stop believing
Was Morris not a good enough option off the bench? I liked him in Denver
Ah yes, youâre right. I had forgotten that trade was terrible, too.
Lotta blunders before Leon figured out signing Villanova guards is the way.
Itâs hard to take the minutes criticism seriously. I run with a fit crowd. One of my friends was training for a 100 mile race. Thereâs not enough time in a day to properly prep for that, so she would run 30 miles on Friday, 30 on Saturday, and 30 on Sunday. These are nonprofessional for-hobby athletes.
NBA players may be a little winded after playing 40 minutes in a close, hard fought game. And they get nicked up. But there is almost no chance that professional athletes who are in shape canât handle that, even on back to backs. Load management wasnât invented to protect players from injuries. It was invented to protect the owners of gazillion-dollars contracts from negative criticism and from risk adverse insurance companies. Itâs a business, not a science.
1. Brown eats innings now
2. When we go to an 8 man rotation in the playoffs (or next Tuesday), Brown and Hart will be able to play all the non-Center bench minutes needed.
3. Next year Brownâs $22.5mm salary can be used to facilitate a blockbuster trade.
Heâs not the perfect backup PG, but in the absence of one, heâll suffice for those reasons.
Saw something that said we could also take Boucher back in a trade for Brown. Thatâs a lot of bad shooters in one trade!
Figure the tight playoff rotation goes something like this at 1-4:
1 Brunson
2 Donte
3 OG
4 Randle
then
1 Brunson
2 Brown
3 Hart
4 OG
Then
1 Brown
2 Donte
3 Hart
4 Randle
Then back to the starters.
Not bad.
EDIT: not gonna lie, you probably donât even need Hart when it gets really tight. Thatâs a plus.
At least we wouldn’t have to wonder if Brown can actually play PF, despite some pundits claiming he can. Unlike Achiuwa he can at least kinda shoot.
They can’t package Brown and Boucher in the same trade though.
Thanks, Hubert (and Alan and EB). I don’t know Brown from Adam, so my question was real puzzlement, as on paper he looks like an exact replica of Josh Hart. Which, I love me some Josh Hart, but two of them? (Along with Donte and Grimes, who are sort of sharpshooting Josh Harts). If Brown can play point, too, then okay. Not hugely sold, but as Alan says, what else is there…
Pretty sure it was invented by Greg Popovich to gain a competitive advantage but what does he know.
Thereâs also, like, 50 years worth of data about performance dropoffs on the 2nd night of B2Bs.
I donât know how you play Brown and Hart together. I think Grimes needs to be in those lineups. Imagine Randle in the paint: they would cover Donte and double Randle every single time with Hart or Brownâs man. I think you need at least two of Donte/Brunson/OG/Grimes at all times, and preferably three of them.
Ugh OG out for tomorrow and listed now as having âbone spur irritationâ. Not good.
Popovich didnât load manage Duncan and Parker when they were in their 20s and not for nothing but when he did load manage those guys they were well into their 30s and had won multiple championships at that point.
Oh well, it was nice while it lasted!
Man, I wonder what Olynyk would cost⌠heâs having a hell of a year. If he can handle both PF and C, heâd be a nice fit.
I dunno, I think bone spurs are better than alternatives, honestly.
Fun factoids:
Compare Rudy Gobertâs 129 blocks and 44 steals in 2017-18, when he won the first of his three Kia Defensive Player of the Year awards, to Wembanyamaâs 138 and 51 already.
They learned to manage injury news from the Yankees, no more doubts about it…
There’s definitely some evidence that Bruce Brown can run an offense.
Brown played 3 games with the Pacers while Hali was out and averaged 5.3apg in 27min, or 7asts/36. The Pacers offense probably juices the numbers but he was also sharing the floor with PGs in McConnell and Nembhard.
For the Nuggets he averaged 4.2asts/36 during the regular season. Supposedly he ran the offense if Jokic and Murray were ever off the floor at the same time.
Back in Detroit he averaged 5.1asts/36
I’m skeptical of his PG skills, but I do think he’d help the 2nd unit run an actual offense.
As a Yankees fan this hits home. His arm is probably amputated by now.
Brown is not a point guard, he is very similar to Josh Hart
every time i look to see who the cavs are playing it seems like they’re worst than the last team they played…
feels like they’ve had one of the easiest schedules the whole season…
We don’t need him to be Steve Nash, we just need him to be better than Deuce McBride and Alec Burks.
If he can figure out how to throw an entry pass to Randle in the post we would could stop worrying about the 2nd unit offense altogether.
I think the strongest case for load management is also the most simple: the fewer minutes you play, the fewer opportunities there are to get injured. You donât have to be unduly fatigued to blow an ACL on a freak play. It can happen in the first minute of the first game of the season. For that reason alone, it makes sense to not play your most important players more than you have to.
Whether high minute totals make injuries more likely independent of that indisputable assertion is, I think, unsettled. Obviously the NBA just came out with its own report casting doubt on the idea, but I found their methodology riddled with questionable causation conclusions and sampling issues, not to mention the fact that theyâre hardly a disinterested party.
Regardless, if Brunson wasnât playing in the 4th quarter last night, he wouldnât have sustained the injury he sustained in the 4th quarter. And thatâs factorial.
Brown isnât a great PG but he can handle the ball and does a lot more on offense than Josh Hart does. Just google Bruce Brown pick and roll to see how effective heâs been. You can do a lot with him & Donte or him & Randle when Brunson has to sit.
Youâre right but Iâd grit my teeth a lot less than when playing Deuce and Hart together.
When we go to 6-7 men Grimes isnât playing and neither is Deuce.
And maybe Hart wonât have to, either. Brown can slot in 1-3 and OG moves to 4 when Randle sits.
When we get deep in the playoffs, Brown and a backup center can cover the whole starting 5.
Shit Iâve really talked myself into Bruce Brown, havenât I?
Ok, TFNH, sure. So like what is the cut off for players? Beginning of the 4th and youâre up 10, donât play any starters until itâs a 4 point game? Do you sub out and sub in back and forth based on a certain lead?
How many games are you willing to sacrifice here? We arenât the 2016 Warriors running away with the one seed.
Well, hell, Joe Ingles is languishing on the Magic bench and could probably be had for next to nothing…….
And I’d like to make my case again for Josh Richardson…….although, I know, I know, Riley won’t trade with us. But I heard the same thing about Toronto.
Jake Fischer
Dejounte out with a âback injuryâ tonight.
I think my case is even simpler: letting your backups play 16-18 minutes is not “waving a white flag.”
If the Jazz are really willing to trade Agbaji for Brown, that probably beats our best offer assuming we’re not willing to include Grimes. I don’t quite understand why the Jazz would do that unless Toronto is sending them some draft compensation though.
MASAI: “Hey, Danny. Can you do me a favor?”
AINGE: “Depends what you need.”
MASAI: “I want to create a fake bidding war for Bruce Brown so I can rip off the Knicks.”
AINGE: “Say less!”
Or in the “get him so he can’t hurt you again” category, GG Jackson from the Grizz.
Two times now we’ve gotten a higher seed in large part due to treating mid-season games like game 7. And two times we got punked in the playoffs by lower seeded teams who treated the regular season like an exhibition.
https://instreetclothes.com/2024/02/07/understanding-og-anunobys-elbow-injury/
Fairly reassuring breakdown of whatâs going on with the bone spur in his elbow.
Iâd say there are maybe 5 regular season coaches better than Thibs at generating wins with a given roster. Probably less than 5 but whatever.
Thing is, you canât pick and choose what parts of Thibs you get (beyond making him GM or giving him any kind of say in personnel decisions.)
The assumption should always be that Thibs is not going to load manage players, like, at all. If you donât want him to play someone 40+ minutes, you have to scratch him. Period.
Similarly, he should not have any input over personnel decisions. But if you acquire a player, it should be with the understanding that Thibs will play him as he sees fitâŚno more, no less.
Iâm bought in on those terms. I like our record and I like the way we play. There are things I wish Thibs did differently, but he is what he is. No use in speculating about what someone else would do, unless you factor in THAT coachâs negatives. They all have themâŚexcept for those 3-4 guys better than him.
Hawks had the same record as the Knicks in 2021.
I don’t think Brown really fits a need. He will be nice for the next month but ultimately I don’t think he is an upgrade over Hart and Grimes. He is not as much of a rebounder or defender as Hart and is only marginally better of a shooter, and he is not close to as good of a shooter as Grimes and no better defensively and his passing and shot creation while better is not worth the massive drop-off in shooting.
No one that is rumored to us is better than our top 8-9 players. We need people because half the team is hurt but once we are healthy most of them are not significant upgrades over who we already have. The only thing I think we could use is a pure point guard who can make open 3s, not be a liability on defense, and be okay playing 12-15 minutes a game backing up Brunson.
Anyone we need to make it through the injuries we should be able to pick up off the waiver wire or already have on the bench.
Once healthy our bench should be:
iHart/Mitch
Hart
Grimes
McBride
Veteran Pure PG
I don’t want Brown or Burks in front of any of our players and neither really fills the PG role. Brogdon could be the PG but his price is not worth it for the 12-15 minutes a night we need him and he is seemingly not available anyway.
Swifty all I was saying is that there’s a clear rationale for load management even if one doesn’t buy the unsettled idea that higher minute totals lead to injuries caused by overuse. The implications of this are that it’s logical to not expose key players to more game time than is necessary.
How one employs this wisdom in any given game will always be context dependent. You ask if there are benefits to to playing the guy that outweigh the risks and go from there. The clearest counter veiling benefit is the need to win games, but sometimes that’s not in question one way or the other.
So maybe he’s coming back from an injury and could use the extra conditioning, maybe he needs a certain number of minutes to not cause issues in the locker room, etc. But every single minute of NBA gameplay comes with injury risk.
I can tell you I immediately flagged the reinsertion of Brunson while up 20 as a bad idea last night.
Hubs give me a break. We win our first round match up last year. If weâd been the 6th,7th or 8th seed we wouldnât have as favorable a match up against the bucks, Celtics or 76ers.
And Miami didnât âpunkâ us. We lost in 6 and were a minute away from taking them to game 7. They beat the bucks and Celtics and got to the fucking finals.
Agbaji kinda sucks, no?
Iâm surprised we havenât raised the banner yet.
Kelly is Canadian and while he doesn’t fit Tor timeline he would give players like Barnes and RJ a bunch of space to operate compared to Poetl
Or even Poeltl, for the weak.
Miles Bridges putting on a pre trade show against Toronto
Brown was arguably the third best player on the Nuggets in last yearâs playoffs. He was also great for the Nets in the playoffs.
If we get Brown here no one is gonna want to see Hart or Grimes play over him.
Brown was filling a role that Denver exactly needed filling. I think Hart would have also looked amazing in Denver. I am not sure who between Brown and Hart is better, but it is not Hart’s minutes he would be taking.
Compared to Grimes it doesn’t matter that Brown might overall be better, the fact that Grimes is a significantly better shooter means he fills a much more needed role than Brown would fill especially with Hart and OG already on the roster.
Even compared to McBride I am not sure if he is that big of an upgrade. McBride is just as good defensively and again is a much better shooter. McBride’s problem is he isn’t a true PG but neither is Brown.
I don’t think Brown would fix our bench’s offense, whatever playmaking he brought would be canceled out by the shooting we would lose. The minutes he would get would come from Grimes, McBride, and maybe even DDV. It would not come from Hart or Randle or our centers.
Brown is first and foremost a defensive specialist and we have OG, Hart, Grimes, and McBride all filling that role. On this roster, he is not a clear upgrade over any of them.
What about Fournier + their 1st back for Tyus Jones and Landry Shamet.
Jones is leaving Washington anyway and Shamet is a negative value contract. Getting their pick back, even though it is heavily protected, could help with future moves and might be of real value to them.
Jones would help a lot this year and Shamet would keep the soup cooking and could be a regular season innings eater until we are healthy.
Philly might be cooked. At this point it might be hard for them to avoid the play in. Miami and Orlando are just 4 games behind.
This some crazy endowment bias.
Iâm pretty confident Deuce McBride couldnât have scored 25 pts in the NBA title clinching win last year or put up a 7-9 shooting performance in 53 minutes of a game 7 while guarding Giannis.
Canât get excited about Brown. Numbers seem meh. He is a good player but redundant and you just have to think we could find something better.
McBride isnât close to as good as Brown but on this roster we need his shooting more than we need the much better all-around game Brown brings.
As long as we have Hart and Randle and a coach that will play them 55+ minutes combined a game we cannot afford to bring in wings, especially guards, that cannot shoot.
Brown is great but completely redundant with Hart.
Deuce is shooting like 40 percent from three this year. Why do you think he couldnât have a good playoff game where he shoots from three like that? Bc he hasnât done it yet?
The Blazers have so much money tied up for so long, and are paying it to so many bad players, that I canât even get my head around it. In 2025-2026 they will be paying a combined $95M to the immortal trio of Decline Phase Jerami Grant, Deandre Ayton and Anfernee Simmons.
That really looks like a roster that was constructed by Isiah Thomas.
wow, i can’t believe kahwi and zion are healthy enough to play in a game together in february…
sure takes zion a while to get back on defense, especially if he’s initiating thr offense for his team…
it’s like he’s done his job passing or shooting, so why run back on defense…
hmmmm, any chance OG becomes our Kawhi?
https://x.com/davidfuternick/status/1755304434723398120?s=20
Anfernee Simons, too.
Noble, only because you’re an attorney and it’s good to know: countervailing
Now resume the LX Brkzz conversation, please
Man, if we had lost at home to the Pistons without Cade and Bojan like the Kings did, this blog would have exploded.
And E would still be typing awayâŚ.
It’s OK. I invested heavily in Monk, Burks, Sabonis, and Duren tonight.
From what I know about E, he likes regular season losses.
Ian Begley is up early….just tweeted that Brunson is questionable and OG is out, which was reported already I think?