Simply put, if the Knicks are going to have a chance at avoiding the play-in games, they really need to sweep this home and away versus the Wizards.
I expect they’ll pull it off.
With Derrick Rose now confirming he actually had COVID, who the heck knows what that means for his readiness the rest of the season. Hopefully he’s healed up well.
Let’s go start the sweep, Knicks!
197 replies on “2020-21 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Wizards”
Quick Quick
Obi Obi
Frank Frank
Mitch Mitch
From last thread:
This is a tiresome mischaracterization. He doesn’t want to coach players who don’t play well (according to his own definition, which is not all that bad,). That’s why RJ and Quickley play and Austin Rivers sits.
Payton will start tonight and as much I understand that IQ is better suited as a 6th man, the second unit needs scoring and yadda yadda, this is my personal Groundhog Day…
Despite that: Let’s go Knicks!
When a player is placed on the injury list a few days from the deadline, that immediately rises his chances of being traded, i would say.
Let’s go Knicks!!!
Better start booing the referees from the 1st minute on
I think we have three picks in the upcoming draft. Our roster is full at the moment, but likely to lose Rivers. Iggy is probably also replaceable. That’s two openings if you don’t count two way players, which means we can sign two of our draft picks to regular contracts. One probably goes on a two-way contract, unless maybe Peyton or Rose don’t get rehired if we need space. But I can see why management might like to have fewer picks added to the team but better players overall.
***Lonzo has a strong defensive reputation that Brogdon lacks***
Brogdon has a better career D-rating, and he played 29 minutes a game on the #1 defensive team in the league in Milwaukee, and 31 minutes per game on the #6 defensive team in the league in Indiana. Ball doesn’t have as good of a defensive resume as far as I can see. (They even have the same career steals rate).
clyde with the pink suit…..nice..
i’m sorta rooting for us to get lonzo but i also can’t tell if this is stupid.
lonzo is a better defender than brogdon. i won’t stoop to the evidence gutter; but he is. brogdon is definitely better overall at the moment.
whoa…looks like the ‘rona did a number on rose…
If healthy, Brogdon is a better player than Lonzo. He shot 50/40/90. He is at least as a floor general. He is a plus defender.
The big issue with Brogdon is the durability of his knees. He slid in the draft because many teams red flagged him. He might be like Brandon Roy – great while he lasted, but not built to last.
i am in the Lonzo camp…he came into the league after his freshmen year…I think he is going to get better….
payton ditching the armband is helpful to those of us who are bad at telling left from right and confuse him with rj
Alex Len is a walking ear worm. Every time I see him, I know that it’s over for me. He’s gonna Steal My Sunshine.
Way too early for a challenge, especially since Len didn’t even make the shot.
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Brogdon has a better career D-rating, and he played 29 minutes a game on the #1 defensive team in the league in Milwaukee, and 31 minutes per game on the #6 defensive team in the league in Indiana. Ball doesn’t have as good of a defensive resume as far as I can see. (They even have the same career steals rate).
Brogden’s numbers around the rim have dropped off the last two years- you wonder if the knees are already an issue.
weird thing is the foul on beal would have been a much better challenge
So the Celts have to play Milwaukee on the road on Wednesday and again on Friday. They have lost 5 of 7 so some circuits must be blowing in Ainge’s brain right now.
Oh thank god, that UnderArmour ad about imposter syndrome has been replaced. I’ve seen it so many times now that I’m doubting everything.
Randle with the Dirk one-legged fadeaway
I don’t get the challenge in the first half…
couple of strong passes from rj
Milwaukee’s defense was better without Brogdon on the floor that year and got better after he left.
I prefaced it by saying I haven’t seen Ball enough to confirm. But he does seem to be regarded highly on defense. Maybe it’s Frank-like and doesn’t show up in steals rate?
This is a fun team.
When Barrett is passing instead of driving into traffic.
Here’s my luke warm take. Mitch even before the injury I feel had been milliseconds late or too deep to make the big blocks in defense. Noel outplayed him in that dept. I think but Mitch is superior on O boards. That’s all I got. Maybe we go twin towers late in games !!!
I don’t know what the hell happened on that RJ-Mitch lob but it warmed my heart
I, too, owned the Go soundtrack in 1998.
Thibs was definitely being stubborn trying to prove a bad point … def dumb move
Mitch looking at his hand was great, I’ve missed him
Hot start for Randle and the Bu-Bu gang,
RJ showing great passing chops.
Mitch made his presence known right away. Noel is good, but Mitch has something Noel doesn’t, dexterity.
Barrett’s breaking down the defense and passing out of the paint for the Bullock 3’s was a thing of beauty.
We Want Obi! We Want Frank!
RJ’s a helluva player.
rj feeling himself
Obi needs to foul someone to make sure he registers in the box score.
Looks like Frank is back out of the rotation.
RIP Raul Neto
Poor Frank … does he get some burn tonight ?
even the wizards announcers not buying that neto semiflop
The crowd reaction to IQ putting Neto on skates made me sad that the building was empty for so many of his explosions this season.
IQ just sent Neto to another zip code before nailing that step-back 3. When Brooks called a TO, I was afraid IQ pushed off and we were getting a challenge. It was a clean, DEVASTATING move.
Nice Rucker move from IQ.
I feel for Obi, reduced to Handoff Test Dummy on offense…
There are probably better nights for this facile accusation than those on which Elfrid Payton starts after a multi-week absence and no practice, and Alec Burks is the first “point guard” off the bench.
Neto just guaranteed that he’ll be on every NBA highlight show for the next 2 weeks.
Can we let him post up
obi sets screens like he’s playing tag
phuck… toppin is shit
I really missed Payton )-:
Quickly wants Frank to play. No wait it’s Barrett
No doubt
Toppin airballs the shot.
Next possession he’s wide open in the corner, Payton drives into traffic.
The players have not trust in Obi.
Let him post again.
Obi needs to start getting DNP-CD next to his name soon.
I can’t watch Obi anymore. Just trade him for anything
Toppin sucks but he sucks even more if His role is to stand behind 3 point line and take a shot he can’t make
My overwhelming emotion watching Obi for his 5 minute stints is pure sadness.
mitch looks tired and limpy
It’s amazing seeing a center with hands on offense after watching Noel for 20 something games
Toppin’s regression from struggling rookie who shows flashes
to unplayable bust is really disappointing…
jeez…it was so nice not having to watch payton…what a bummer that he’s back
Too easy
Toppin’s now lost all confidence. He’s a shell of what he was in the first preseason game. Wasn’t developed well. Plays for a coach who isn’t good at development. May or not be a lot there to work with, but that’s really neither here nor there at that point. If Thibs is going to be the coach, they should just trade him now before his value completely dissipates. It’s not working and this isn’t the organization for him.
Too bad coach won’t play the young fellas
Toppin needed G league more than anyone, now he’s stuck …
I sadly agree. I wonder if his teammates lift him up at all. It’s a shitty situation.
Obi should only practice and get garbage minutes, we need a backup PF
RJ just keeps adding more aspects to his game. So nice to see.
Westbrook wanted to be more physical than RJ… hilarious!
Mitch looking tired and limpy indeed
Oh Mitch how I missed you.
What a line by RJ at the half.
Apparently I should have tuned in before halftime….69-49, sweet!
Having Mitch back definitely makes the games more fun to watch.
They’ll never do this but if they want to play toppin … let Randle take his breather earlier. Let him play with some of the better players to create for him (not corner 3). Worth a shot. Especially up 20.
sometimes I think Obi Toppin for Lonzo Ball is too much for a pending free agent. And then Obi plays a game.
Absolutely. Lotta stretches on offense where RJ seems to make his teammates better. Did not expect that this year.
Randle got away with the most blatant lane violation on that last FT. He was off of the key and crossed into the paint long before the ball hit the rim.
Mitch scooped up the loose ball for the power slam.
yeah, if they keep the big lead it would be nice to see them try to try to feature Obi
Thibs does not believe that there can be Garbage Time with more than 2 minutes left in the game.
+1
Very solid half overall, great to see Mitch doing Mitch things, Randle being consistently good, RJ very confident and impactful too. Let’s blow them out so we can get some garbage time.
They should be offering Toppin around right now and who knows maybe they are, but it’s so early there’s still likely a big factional FO disagreement about where to go with him. Hard to imagine Rose giving up on him this quickly.
1. RJ is getting better bi-weekly.
2. Randle is dribbling too much and taking the occasional bad shot lately . Obviously he’s having a good game overall, but I don’t like seeing those old bad habits emerge again.
3. It’s time to bench Obi and give Knox a chance. At least Knox doesn’t throw up air balls on a regular basis.
4. We made some really dumb plays in this game. Good thing Washington sucks.
Agree. After a week or two starting in the G-league he’ll be back strong.
Do you even read your own posts? Or the responses?
You said (twice!): “Tom Thibodeau does not want to coach young players.”
I said: “He doesn’t want to coach players who don’t play well (according to his own definition, which is not all that bad)”
If you want to take issue with his coaching, it should be based on the “his own definition” part. He thinks Payton is “good” in the context of the team. You don’t. But it has nothing to do with age. That you keep insisting that it does is the tiresome part. Mitch, RJ, and IQ are all major parts of the rotation. Even Obi continues to get minutes.
The G League is done for the season.
OK, so his stupid “own definition” always winds up with him playing shitty veterans and not better young players. Not sure how that’s an improvement. It would be better to just not want to admit not wanting to play young players rather than making up stupid excuses as to why you don’t play young players.
He’s played Immanuel Quickley literally the bare minimum his performance and talent, and the other players at his position, would call for. IQ is not a pro-Thibs data point on the question.
Toppin’s problem is that he excels in transition and taking advantage of smaller 18-19 year old players. He’d be great in college. lol Seriously, his skillset was bound to be a problem in the NBA, but he might look better on a team that ran a little more. I think a player like Lonzo Ball could help make him look a little less terrible because Ball prefers to run.
i know obi hasn’t set the world on fire but this is part of having young guys… he’s been bad but not entirely irredeemably bad… there’s a lot of folks here who wanted to throw rj in the garbage and look at him now…
i don’t think benching obi is the answer… and certainly not for knox… but if you’re going to draft someone in the lotto you need more than 400 minutes to figure out what he can do…
it doesn’t look great… he’s old for a rookie… he looks like a fish out of water… but rookie years even for old rookies can look like this….
Yeah, i wanna see our All-NBA G-League First Team PG play some minutes tonight
Randle! RJ! What a fun sequence of basketball
After the tough loss Sunday night I was worried about tonight’s game, this is an incredibly impressive performance.
Nice defense three possessions in a row from Payton. At least that’s something!
I’m sure I’m in the majority but I’m not sure Ja Morant will be the no doubt second best player in the 2019 draft by the end of the season. I know we’re playing the Wizards but an RJ Barrett who knows who he is and is also improving is a very scary thing for the NBA.
This ad was great… Go RV-ing Canada! 🙂
It’s not even a pro-Thibs or anti-Thins argument. You continue to ignore that he’s playing RJ big minutes even though he’s 20 years old and his stats certainly don’t justify more playing time any more than Payton’s do. Or that he played Mitch far more than Nerlens before his injury. You think Quickley is a better PG than Payton…that’s a debatable position. But to make a generalization based on that flies in the face of what is happening.
Randle the Roman Candle
oh this is nuts
Julius Steph Randle!!
Bullock has come a long way when he gets hurt and I’m hoping it’s nothing serious.
Randle was due for an airball
OMG Randleeeee
MVP! MVP! MVP!
I honestly wish we weren’t playing these guys again on Thursday. They’re gonna be angry and probably locked in.
I thought Randle could play better than he did last year but I never thought he would turn into Steph Curry
They’ll probably get Rose on Thursday.
Mike Breen trying to justify Thibs and the no garbage time policy was kind of funny
Well, Wizards’ defense is juuuust a little different than the 76ers’, but it’s fun to watch this kind of reaction after that brutal loss…
Don’t worry, a relaxed Knicks team should probably be better than a locked in Wizards team. They’re baaad.
Thibs calling TO after allowing an easy layup that cuts the lead to 29 is freaking awesome.
I got to work and had to stop watching the game, but I checked the score and wow, we are leading by thirty and have over 90 points half way into the third quarter. I have to say, if this keeps up, Scott Brooks could get fired.
Come on Frankie !
how do they miss mitch so much
The Wizards a playing All Star Game-level defense. All credit to the Knicks for making the open shots, but they are open for a reason.
Oh Mitch, how we’ve missed you
Randal is unconscious, but Mitch is having a great game too.
I am SOOO glad we don’t have to watch Westbrook in a Knicks uniform
Randle a few dumb things last 2 or 3 touches. Obi coulda done that !
“Everything’s easy when you know how”, Clyde is the best! 😀
Last three or four touches. It’s Obi time…
3 or 4 touches now. Too much one on one bad shots. I don’t care that we’re up almost 30
yeah…Randle is hogging it now
Hahaha said same thing !!!
Randle’s trying for the career high but he’s forcing way too much now…
where’s iq?
Breen: “Robinson . . dribbling several times”
Westbrick!!!
This isn’t too fast to give up on Obi. This is precisely the time to trade him. His numbers don’t suck and there’s a story behind his lack of playing time (Randle). If we can get Brogdon for Obi and save our draft picks, do it tomorrow.
Randle maybe sole reason we’re not up close to 40. Yea I said it
I think our starters can overwhelm their 3rd stringers in the 4th quarter
Maybe Randle plays entire 3rd so obi does get some burn?…
That was a nice dribble drive and dish by Frank there. Actually shook his defender. The dribbling has improved a tiny bit.
I can’t believe Randle is a guy who goes 7-9 from three now. It’s just crazy. Never saw that coming.
Quickley makes me laugh out loud almost every game
Mitch shouldn’t do this block attempts that are clearly a goaltend, because you don’t know if the ball is going in or not.
Avdija’s physique combines a lack of bulk with a lack of definition. Not in NBA shape.
When was the last time the Knicks had 108 points after 3?
Randle’s played 32 minutes so far, end of the third. Up by 28. What’s Thibs’ decision for the fourth?
Sit Randle the entire quarter
Thibs is certifiably insane
And there’s toppin jogging over to the corner. His most effective spot ?… maybe ?
Jared Harper please
Ugh
Breen on toppin…” hes lost right now “
Man, Obi is a fucking mess
Quickley air balls too guys. Toppin isn’t the only one !
IQ’s shooting has hit the rookie wall 🙁
I say let him be a mess… as fans we have a right to see it eh ?
extended garbahhhhgge time
24 point lead? I must play the starters again
I just don’t see obi doing that many little things either. He doesn’t crash the boards … he wanders a lot… doesn’t love contact really …
This is so fucked up …
there’s really no point in asking why rj and randle are in huh….
If the bench wants to finish the game don’t allow open 3pters on every possession against the Wizards scrubs.
Say what you want about Elf, Rose, and Burks, they do go to the hoop relentlessly and with confidence, justified or not. Thibs obviously wants it from that position. Frank and IQ never do it.
Even starters playing like dookie
Thibs gonna have a heart attack with this defensive effort in the 4th quarter.
The Toppin’s watch experience is jumping from PG-13 to NC-17…
Guys are giving Thibs all the motivations he needs to keep the starters in…
Randle said something to Obi checking in … wonder how fruitful it was …
Tonight is reminiscent of Robinson’s record breaking FG% last year.
Thibs is such a maniac
I think we could play with 3 guys and not blow a 20 point lead with 2 minutes left. Maybe rest the starters now?
I really dislike Randle’s last possessions…
Randle playing with 2 mins left in the game, Thibs is insane
As I wrote before, Thibs does not believe that Garbage Time starts before the last two minutes of the game. Maybe he will put in the bench for the last 2:14 after this TO.
What the fuck Thibs?!
Yay Jared Harper!
22 points on 13 shots from the center position tonight, along with 17 rebounds and 5 blocks, not too shabby
Garbage time: 1:53
I officially believe that Thibs’ minute malpractice is a ploy to get the front office to not short him on talent this off season. Give him guys who can finish the job and he won’t destroy the $250M+ investment you’re going to make in RJ/JR.
It’s actually scary to think about.
Full court press losing by 18 is also funny
Harper…all g league
Jared Harper is tiny
Obi Quiet
Thibs certainly falling in love with Burks now too. Quickley not playing as well and his minutes show. When Drose is back, watch out… not saying any of this is wrong if winning tops all but I know many of us will harbor some resentment …
IQ took care of all the shots in garbage time…
I stopped watching. Did he make any?
As a fan of his, I’d love to see Quickley get his teammates involved more. Wouldn’t be surprised if some of the guys really hate his game.
Oh, welcome back no-mask-Rebecca 🙂
Yes he did.
But probably the scrubs that never play hate him 🙂
Yeah, he made 2 three pointers, missed 1, and then made a layup. 8 pts in 4 FGs, very good.
Best Mitch has looked all season. It helps that Washington has the worst interior defense in the league but he looked like last year’s Mitch.
+1
Love seeing that.
a thought shared around the world 🙂
So assuming the Heat lose, we will be 1/2 game out of 4th, 1/2 game out of 8th and 2 games out of 10th. Crazy.
Barrett 39 minutes, Randle 38. Good thing we just edged out the Wiz.
Even if you hate Obi, put Taj in for Randle for a while. Don’t break our all-star!
Hope Bullock’s knee is okay.
i have to imagine it’s been tough for the other coaches on the team to digest thibs propensity for leaving the starters in waaaay too long in more than a few games this season…
no doubt thibs explained himself to the coaching staff, and the team – gotta think though woody, johnnie, andy, diasuke and kenny are sitting on the bench thinking this is really dumb and reckless…
the wizards should have kept john wall, westbrook makes elf look like steph curry…
i was kind of hoping quik would throw him a bone there at the end, not so much…quik’s a lou williams wannabe without the assists…
i feel less bad now about rose stealing all his shots…
i agree with you both, give him a week or so off though…sadly for his development, there’s only a few days chance for the entire team to practice together over the next couple of weeks – doesn’t mean though he can’t do work with the staff and a few teammates, before and after games…right now i would sit him for a week, give him some specific stuff to work on…
when it comes to player development, we don’t just have one coach, thibs just controls the rotation, shots, defense, how many breathes you take in a minute, your blood pressure…i’m sure you gotta ask him to go pee during a practice…
wouldn’t mind seeing knox get a little court time, frank kevin, obi – they’re all the same at this point…
oh, i ain’t got nothing else to say – i just wanted to bump raven off 😛
To me there’s huge difference between RJ and Obi as rookies.
RJ had a clearly defined set of skills at 19. The major questions were whether he could he improve his 3 point shot over time and would he be quick enough to defend well. Other than that, we knew he could score around the basket, had good vision and playmaking skills for a wing, and rebounded fairly well. All you had to do was give him time and hope the 3 point shot came.
Obi is 22 and I can’t find a thing he does well other than jump and dunk. He’s not going to get transition points in the the volume he used to get in college and not only does he not have a strength advantage inside anymore, on many nights he’s the weaker player. Add that to the fact he’s throwing up AIR BALLS from deep, can’t defend a lick, and is not an especially good rebounder for a PF, and all you have a hard working kid that’s very easy to like and root for.
I’m not calling him a bust yet, but even with Knox you could hold out more hope because he was a very physically immature 19 year old. And as disappointed as we are in Knox so far, he’s year YOUNGER than Toppin now and at least has a couple of NBA skills.
He’s a scorer off the bench. You bring him in for a heat check and either roll with him or yank him depending on how it’s going that night. IMO he should not be playing PG or even starting on a good team the way he plays now. He doesn’t have the same skill set as Hardaway, but he reminds me of Hardaway. He has no conscience. He’ll throw up any trash at any given time. He’ll win us some games and cost us games depending on whether they are going in on that night and how long a leash we give him. If he wants to become a serious player, he’s got to settle down.
We just hit the Vegas preseason o/u…28 games left…impressive!
That was the funniest moment of the night. I was laughing hysterically at that timeout and my girlfriend couldn’t understand why. I told her they screwed up on defense. She said ‘But the game is basically over”. I said, “Exactly”.
I read a Washington Wizards blog. They are unhappy their coach doesn’t hold people responsible like Thibs does.