(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 7:25:00 PM)
Rejoice, Knicks fans, because the day you have been waiting for has finally come. Your team is officially the worst in the NBA.
The Cavaliers’ victory over the Wizards was their 11th of the season, giving them one more than the Knicks (10-39), who now reside alone in the league’s cellar.
Coach…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:55:00 PM)
Here’s the reality with Anthony Davis, and often it’s difficult to remember because he plays for the (nobody-cares-about) Pelicans: Davis is not just the owner of the most famous unibrow since Frida Kahlo, he’s a top-5 player in the NBA who is just entering his prime.
Since 2012 when Davis left…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 6:35:27 PM)
This is a Knicks season in which everything that can go wrong has gone wrong — even on nights they don’t play. In a double whammy, on the same night rookie lottery pick Kevin Knox was snubbed for All-Star Weekend’s Rising Stars Challenge, the Knicks plummeted to the very bottom of the NBA barrel, owning…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 3:53:17 PM)
This is a Knicks season in which everything that can go wrong has gone wrong. In a surprise on Tuesday, rookie lottery pick Kevin Knox was snubbed for the Feb. 15 Rising Stars Challenge featuring the NBA’s best rookies and sophomores during All-Star Weekend. Knox won the Eastern Conference’s Rookie of the Month in December,…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 1:11:11 PM)
Wednesday’s Garden match against the Mavericks will feature Dirk Nowitzki’s probable last game at the Garden, rookie sensation Luka Doncic’s first game there — and likely more Enes Kanter chants. After not playing in a fourth straight game — all losses — Monday in Charlotte against the Hornets, Kanter all but accused coach David Fizdale…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 12:46:01 PM)
The NBA has a trade demand, too: some cash for Anthony Davis’ public wishes. The Pelicans star center was fined $50,000 Tuesday for violating the league’s rule barring players or their representatives from making a public trade demand. A day prior, agent Rich Paul told ESPN that Davis would not sign a contract extension with…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:01:54 AM)
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — Knicks center Mitchell Robinson, a former Pelicans fan and graduate of Chalmette High School in suburban New Orleans, supports Anthony Davis’ latest maneuver. Robinson and Davis share the same trainer, Marcell Scott, who has been living with the Knicks’ 20-year-old rookie in Westchester. Robinson and Davis have worked out together multiple times….
[NYTimes] N.B.A. Fines Anthony Davis $50,000 After Agent’s Request for a Trade (Wednesday, January 30, 2019 1:36:20 AM)
The league called the agent’s public request for New Orleans to trade his client an “intentional effort to undermine the contractual relationship between Davis and the Pelicans.”
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:55:20 PM)
Here are five possible Anthony Davis trades involving the Knicks (although he doesn’t end up in New York in one of them).
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:44:53 PM)
With the Cavaliers defeating the Wizards 116-113 on Tuesday night, they became tied with the Suns for the second-worst record in the NBA at 11-41.
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 8:46:01 PM)
The Knicks are focused on developing their young talent, yet none of them will play in the NBA’s Rising Stars Challenge on All-Star weekend.
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 6:03:58 PM)
The Knicks can swing a trade in their favor if they are willing to include Kristaps Porzingis.
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 6:15:14 PM)
A marriage between Kevin Durant and the Knicks has been a storyline since the regular season began. And many in the business believe it is one that can definitely come to fruition.
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 9:32:13 PM)
Anthony Davis has shaken up the NBA world, as he requested a trade to leave the Pelicans. And with that news surfacing, the Knicks are reportedly among the top candidates to make a trade happen before the Feb. 7 deadline.
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 4:58:27 PM)
Pelicans star Anthony Davis has requested a trade, informing the team he has no interest in re-signing. With news of Davis wanting out came reports that the Knicks have strong interest in trading for him. Here are the latest rumors…
(Tuesday, January 29, 2019 7:56:42 PM)
Enes Kanter continues to feud with head coach David Fizdale, pointing that the fans are on his side.
94 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.01.30)”
We can only hope that the Cavs start to put some more wins on the board so that if we decide to start playing KP towards the end of the season, we don’t have to worry about a few random wins here or there.
The tank is strong in us.
I hope there’s someone good left at #3 LOL
Ja Morant?
It’s good to know that if we whiff on the big free agents, there are a fair amount of non-star, competent point guards on the market like Collison or Rubio. Getting the ball to KP, Mitch, and (fingers x’d) Zion in the right spots will be huge for this team.
It seems like the slim possibility of us acquiring AD depends on New Orleans deciding they’d rather pull a San Antonio than rebuild around picks and prospects. I think that actually makes sense for such a small market team. They really can’t afford to kill of their fan base for an extended period.
Chris Herring put forth Porzingis, Hardaway, and a pick (not 2019’s). I would make that deal without any guarantee that AD would re-sign here, and trust that I can build a contender around him this summer with my cap space and trade assets.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-anthony-davis-would-fit-on-the-lakers-celtics-nets-sixers-and-knicks/?addata=espn:nba:teams
Even the Daily News gets it….
I don’t understand the trades that involve Philly trading Simmons for AD and keeping Embiid. That’s a ridiculous set up. I would trade Embiid for AD, which is probably good for both teams.
Having a little fun with things from New Orleans’ perspective….
1. Do Herring’s trade w the Knicks
2. Dump Mirotic and Randle for picks.
3. Call Washington and let them out of the Wall contract. The price for giving them Hardaway for Wall is Thomas Bryant.
I go into next year with:
Wall
Holiday
Moore
Porzingis
Bryant
Okafor and Payton on the bench, plus my lottery pick in this draft, plus a first round pick from the Knicks, plus picks from Mirotic and Randle.
I know Wall has arguably the worst contract in league history. But small market economics are different. It can actually makes more sense to overpay John Wall by 200% and have a playoff team than it does to spend to the salary floor on roster filler that plays in an empty arena while your fan base dwindles.
Even if you leave the Washington component out of this fan fiction, you can still field:
Holiday
Hardaway
Moore
Porzingis
Okafor
plus the Pelicans lottery pick in 2019, plus the Knicks pick, plus the assets from Mirotic and Randle, plus ~$20mm in cap space.
Isn’t that more appealing to a small market team than Lonzo Ball, Kyle Kuzma, and Brandon Ingram?
i Wouldn’t include Simmons or embiid. It’s like six of one and half dozen of the other. I’d offer up butler if he doesn’t have a ntc.
I would deal for kp but Would kp sign there is the big question and my guess is probably not. It it would be a coup to get Timmy’s contract off and get ad for the cost of kp and a pick. I just don’t see why they would do that if kp is t signing there
@8
That starting five is halfway entertaining ifokafor no longer a bust.
But again does kp sign long term
They would likely want KP re-signed before trading for him, and I think Hardaway’s a dealbreaker. That said, Okafor and KP could make a nice enough front court pair. I think it would have to be KP, Knox, 2019 #1, and Lee. Idk if they’re dumb enough to want an overrated “star” just for box office draw.
Kp is not agreeing to a sign and trade to n.o.
We can match any offer but he can also not agree to sign.
Also there’s no way I’m giving up kp and the 2019 #1 and Knox. It’s either one or the other kp and Knox or Knox and #1
AD wants out because they can’t get anything around him. But by trading him and tanking this season, New Orleans is able to add a decent starter (Hardaway), a lottery pick, $20mm worth of free agents, and future picks to make trades.
It would be a remarkably different situation for KP than it was for AD. In fact, it would be the best situation he’s ever been in.
That and the 5 year mega max.
Everyone keeps including THJr in theoretical AD trades but why would New Orleans agree to take on two more years of that contract? Assuming a deal is done before the trade deadline, aren’t they insisting on Enes Kanter’s expiring contract instead?
It seems like the universe is pushing him towards LA with only Boston having a chance. I just think looking at it from New Orleans perspective, a Porzingis trade looks better than what either team is offering.
If you’re the Pelicans, I think it’s important to be in the 42-46 win range and its ok to overpay decent players because you need revenue. Rebuilding around the young pieces in question is probably going to end badly. The Celtics and Lakers packages likely will just drag out their descent to the bottom and we’ll never hear from them again until they win another AD sweepstakes.
we want them to take the Timmy contract back so we can sign a fa. Other wise the sad reality is that it probably doesn’t make a lot of sense to give up assets and picks for Davis. “The rent is too dam high”
Why don’t we just trade Hardaway straight up for Lebron and Wilt Chamberlain while we’re at it?
No one wants Tim Albatross Jr.
$40mm in cap space isn’t as valuable to a small market team as it is to us. They’re not going to use it to sign Kevin Durant, you know? These teams usually have to overpay in dollars and years just to acquire mediocre talent like Hardaway. Look at the terrible contract Sacramento offered LaVine, for instance.
As much as we hate Tim Hardaway, he’s averaging 19.4 ppg and teams can easily convince themselves that he’d be OK as a third option. He won’t get better, but he’d be useful to them.
Why don’t you go @ Chris Herring and Nate Silver and tell them they’re stoopid for proposing it on 538?
If the Knicks drop enough in the draft and neither Zion or Morant are available I’m warming up to the idea of trading down for an additional pick or picks in the following year’s draft and maybe a useful player (like maybe an above average point guard).
Admittedly I haven’t watched that many college games, but Barrret, Little, Redish, etc… don’t seem worth a top 5 pick. Especially since in NY they may not draft this high again. Perhaps it’s better to get a number 1 in next year’s draft if possible and hope for a better outcome. Not sure how strong next year’s draft will be but no one besides Zion and maybe Morant seem like difference makers, at least so far.
Obviously I want teams to give us assets for our terrible contracts given to terrible players but that’s not very realistic. Also, cap space has more value than just signing players to free agent contracts. It also allows teams to trade for players, usually as part of a salary dump that includes draft picks, while not having to send out players in return.
I hope the Knicks just trust the process and try to trade some combination of Kanter, Mudiay, THJ, Burke, and Lee. Play the kids under contract for next year. If you can’t find deals for Kanter, Mudiay, or Burke, then release them. Run with Frank and KA at PG the rest of the year (assuming Frank stops getting dinged up).
However, if they are dead set to try to trade for AD, then try to package KP, THJ/Lee, and the 2019 pick (top 1 protected…converts to 2020 pick if Knicks get lucky). If you acquire AD, then you are “going for it” and must sign a top free agent, likely KD, for this all to work. Too much risk if you ask me, but if they are going to go down that path, then THJ or Lee must be included in the deal to open up cap space.
Both teams are taking the risk of not being able to sign the key guys. Just don’t gut the team like the Carmelo Anthony trade years ago (yeah, I know, AD is much better). If you gut the team and then can’t sign one of the big names, he’ll probably leave and the whole thing is a big FAIL.
Re: Okafor – looks like we took on the wrong reclamation projects (Mudiay and Hezonga) from the 2015 draft.
The only trade I want the Knicks to make as of today is a 3 team trade placing Anthony Davis in a Lakers’ uniform. I don’t think Anthony Davis plus whatever we could assemble this off season would be enough to get him to re-sign, and the opportunity cost of losing one of Porzingis and Zion for a 2nd round playoff exit isn’t worth it to me. Send AD to LAL and let one of NOLA/LAL absorb the TH2 deal. The Lakers can’t put together a competitive offer for AD with only Kuz, Hart, Zo, and Ingram. They still have a big contract in Jrue Holiday and they wouldn’t be able to move him without draft compensation, and as a mid market team they would probably value playoff wins in the interim like Indiana and San Antonio opted for. If you can get TH2, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, and Mitchell Robinson back for Anthony Davis (plus draft compensation from the Lakers) I think you have to do it. It’s better than whatever foolishness Danny Ainge is going to offer you, and if you can put out Holiday, Hardaway Jr, Ingram, Kuzma, and Okafor/Robinson on opening night next season, you have enough high upside talent and current production to scrape for the 8th seed (depending on who is coaching next year).
Actually, I think New Orleans should wait until the summer to make that 3 team trade with LAL and the Knicks. In the summer, they could fire Gentry and do a trade where they ask for Luke Walton, Tim Hardaway Jr, Frank Ntilikina, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Mitchell Robinson, a 2020 and 20222 1RP from the Lakers. The Knicks would get back Lonzo Ball after we draft Zion Williamson and re-sign KP. We then end up our young Big 3 in Ball, Zion, and Porzingis with cap space and maneuverability while screwing Boston out of the best player in the world. I bet Kyrie would even sign a 3 year contract in LAL and leave Boston with nobody in the end.
The attractive part about acquiring Porzingis is you can pair him with Holiday and some medium pieces and expect to be back competing for the playoffs every year. Hardaway on a two year deal makes sense in this scenario.
You wouldn’t pair Porzingis with Holiday and rent out your cap space for salary dumps. That’s employing half of one strategy and half of another. That’s why no one is proposing Porzingis and Kanter. You pick one strategy: tear it down or stay afloat.
If they want to tear it down, Porzingis doesn’t enter the discussion. Then you’re talking the Lakers or Celtics offer.
I don’t think we have what it takes right now to get Davis, which is fine with me. You can’t trade AD for an injured unicorn, knox, and a pick that might be 1st but might be 5th. they would have to think that what they can get in the summer from bos / LA is better. by then we will know where we pick, which scares me. hopefully we are smart enough then to know, if we have the 1st, don’t trade it.
plus, the dude can’t be bothered to grooom himself, but that’s OK because the unibrow is “his thing”. that’s like if my grandpa said, nose and ear hair was ‘his thing’.
Good article by Ben Taylor of Backpicks on the relative quality of all of our favorite advanced metrics:
https://fansided.com/2019/01/08/nylon-calculus-best-advanced-stat/
TL;DR: PIPM, BPM, RAPM, and RPM (but RPM has smaller sample + unknown method) outperform WS/WP/PER but are relatively close to one another (that is, PIPM, BPM, RAPM, and RPM are all worth looking at in player eval; WS and WP aren’t useless but aren’t particularly good, and PER is worthless, as we all knew.)
Okafor still isn’t any good, but he’s not as bad as he was.
hubert
you’re making a strong case for N.O. to be mediocre in the long term with KP and you’re assuming KP is ok with that move which he is probably not.
Porzingis isn’t going anywhere. Not only is he off the table, he was never on it to begin with. Even a legitimate story that KP is part of the discussions and they better close the deal or they are going to wind up without AD and having to trade KP under pressure when he asks out.
Any NY package is going to be centered around the 2019 pick and some combination of Frank, Knox, Trier, Robinson, and the 2021 pick (plus salary). I’m not sure how aggressive they will get with those players, but the deal obviously changes if they can get NO to wait until after the lottery and everyone knows what that 2019 1st rounder is worth.
I highly doubt New Orleans wants to rebuild, because if they did Anthony Davis would not have had to demand a trade. They would have sold him to the highest bidder yesterday and been in a firesale. What New Orleans wants is a group of established young talent and some draft picks to bolster what they already have in tow. The Knicks should get on the bandwagon and grab some of the Lakers’ young assets, namely Lonzo Ball, in exchange for sending an “established guy in his prime” like Timmy Jr.
The Lakers will give up literally anything but LeBron in a trade for AD, so what the Pels should do is wait until the summer and demand Luke Walton in any trade. Magic and LeBron would have zero issues with including him in a deal, and then the Pelicans have a good young coach (who would never sign a contract with that franchise) to go along with all the pieces he helped develop into the assets they coveted. No team in the league would be able to beat a package including Luke Walton, first round picks, Brandon Ingram, Kyle Kuzma, Mitchell Robinson, and Tim Hardaway Jr
Mase, I’m really just saying if New Orleans wants to choose the stay afloat option like recent small market teams have, then (and only then) do I think we have the most compelling offer from their perspective.
Re: assuming KP is ok with that, that’s tricky, and it’s all about perspective.
We look at New Orleans with him, Holiday, Hardaway, and some ok pieces as mediocre. But that’s largely because we know Tim Hardaway sucks and Kristaps Porzingis hasn’t come close to performing at the level of his reputation. We also knew Carmelo Anthony and Amar’e Stoudemire was never going to work, too. But ego is a thing and they thought they were going to contend with the Heat.
Kristaps Porzingis probably thinks he’s as good as Anthony Davis, Giannis, Embiid, and all the other unicorns. And he likely thinks Tim Hardaway is good because he scores lots of points. (I don’t know about you, but Kristaps doesn’t strike me as a VORP or BPM guy; advanced metrics say he’s not that good, so I doubt he buys into them or has absorbed their lesson).
Jrue Holiday actually is good. So if Kristaps thinks he’s the man, it’s quite likely he thinks him + Jrue + Tim + a lottery pick + whatever else they can acquire is a good basketball situation. It would be the best situation he’s been in yet.
And it’s not like he has Anthony Davis’ leverage. He hasn’t gotten paid yet. He needs his second contract.
If the Knicks trade Kristaps Porzingis for Anthony Davis, he will just sign his qualifying offer and sign a max contract with the Mavericks in 2020. There is no way New Orleans takes him back in any trade without guarantees that he will re-up with them long term.
If NO wants to stay competitive there are other teams that could offer a package at least as good as KP and Tim Hardaway. I can think of 3 in the Atlantic division alone.
Yeah, I am also not saying that KP can’t be the centerpiece of an AD trade, but I also think the Pellies would be insane (to the point where it would be unrealistic to expect them to be that crazy) to acquire KP without assurances that he resigns there.
If KP would resign, they’d probably rate him higher than anyone else they could get from other teams (assuming Simmons isn’t seriously on the table).
Not that it matters because KP won’t be part of any deal, but Davis is leaving because he doesn’t think the Pelicans are going to be able to build a contender around him and he doesn’t want to waste too much of his youth losing before making a move.
Does anyone think KP is dumb enough to look at scenario and say I want to go there and re-sign?
These KP scenarios are all fantasy.
@38 100% agree. The Knicks simply cannot offer KP to New Orleans in any trade. The only teams KP would sign a deal with (and Sean Marks will make sure the Knicks have to give KP max money) are the Knicks, Mavs, Lakers, and Clippers.
KP’s trade value is a lot higher than how good we know he isn’t. He’s an all star and a unicorn. This means nothing to me, but it sells.
Yeah, I’d rather have Jarrett Allen on his rookie deal, too. But you know Porzingis’ reputation matters here.
You guys are forgetting one important thing in this discussion:
Somehow, against all possible logic, Dell Demps is still the GM of the Pelicans and he is running the negotiations.
That means to me that every team sending offers now is angling to fleece him the absolute most they can. Yes, the Pelicans would be stupid to do a lot of the ideas proposed, but remember, they have actually been ran in a stupid way for the last I don’t even know how many years. It is quite possible that Demps sees Ball, Ingram and Kuzma as excellent prospects, for example.
The smart GMs are all circling like vultures at this point, but the interest being so high should prevent the Pelicans from fucking this up too much. If it becomes clear Davis will only re-sign with the Lakers, then that leverage loses a lot of value and I think we’ll see a stupid trade happening.
Except it wouldn’t be the same scenario.
And KP doesn’t have the leverage to call his shot.
And it’s a big step up from the scenario staring KP in the face if he re-signs here. One man’s trash is another man’s treasure.
KP supposedly likes to party, and NO has quite the night life, or so I’ve heard. Just sayin…
🙂
@41
Yeah, who knows what deals will be floated to New Orleans. Maybe Mills will pony up KP, 2019 pick, 2021 pick, Knox, Frank, Mitch, Trier (plus filler on either or both sides) for AD. Shudder.
There are probably a 1/2 dozen reasons KP will not be part of the deal and another 1/2 dozen reasons AD won’t come to NY if he is, but one of them is that NY management still believes KP is going to be plus player on both sides of the ball. That makes him a rare and valuable commodity no matter what anyone’s favorite advanced metric says about his value now.
Their goal is to accumulate THREE such players as the core, some very solid role players, and a bench.
They aren’t going to advance their plan swapping one such player (plus a bunch of other long term pieces and/or picks) for another even if the new player is a lot better. The goal is to get the 2nd and 3rd stars to NY either through internal development, free agency, or a trade that doesn’t not involve KP. Everything else is fantasy no matter how overrated you think KP is as a player and no matter how much you are worried about injury risk and giving him a max.
We had one window available for trading KP. That was under Phil. Phil recognized the talent, but also recognized the injury risk. He engaged teams about a trade, but didn’t get a good enough offer. Now we have a guy that still has enormous potential, but he’s coming off ACL surgery and he’s not going to agree to re-sign anywhere unless it’s a perfect situation – assuming management even agreed with WS and BPM and wanted to trade him (lol) (which they don’t)
It would be the same exact scenario.
1. It would be a small market like New Orleans.
2. They would still suck.
3. They would still be seen as having bad management.
KP has a ton of leverage. He simply says “I’m not re-signing anywhere other than NY, XXX, or YYY and definitely not New Orleans.
This has never succeeded in the history of the rookie deal.
NBA players do not begin to get leverage until their second contract is winding down.
Every way I look at a trade for AD it doesn’t work out for the Knicks or the Pelicans. This thing is just good for conversation. Next year the situation could be different but as we get closer to his free agency, his trade value drops because NO knows they could lose him for nothing. This time next year might be a different story. I would trade the 2020 #1 for AD in a sign-and-trade. If we can’t dump our salaries this year, next year some of them (Lee, Thomas) become expiring contracts. Their value rises while AD’s drops. If it’s not AD, then there’ll be other situations similar.
Stay the course. Lose every game. Let’s get our rookies and sophomores to take steps to improve. Then, next year, let’s talk trades.
I hear what you are saying, but disagree in this case.
If he was getting traded to a second tier city with a winning organization (Dallas for example) the money would far outweigh the market. But if you are KP, you aren’t staying in a 3rd tier city like New Orleans after a superstar just basically told the entire NBA he can’t win there. KP wants to win. He agreed to no extension now so the team would have more cap space even though if he gets hurt in the gym he could blow it all. Winning is part of what makes him tick and he also wanted a big market from day 1. He’ll tell them, “I’m not staying and I mean it”.
He didn’t agree to it. He didn’t have a choice.
The only way he can force his way to another city is by accepting a short term offer sheet. No *healthy* player in NBA history has ever done that, let alone one coming off ACL surgery.
Davis can pull this because he’s earned $95 million already and has another $55 mil guaranteed. Porzingis has made $18 million and if he takes a one year deal to force his unrestricted free agency that’s the only money he’s guaranteed. That’s a helluva risk because you don’t like New Orleans.
You think they’d rate KP over Tatum? Tatum is a star who went head to head with Lebron and he’s younger and under team control for longer. Plus Boston could throw in players who are good instead of Tim Hardaway. Toronto could offer up a mix of good players.
“Stay the course. Lose every game. Let’s get our rookies and sophomores to take steps to improve. Then, next year, let’s talk trades.”
This +100. Don’t do anything stupid, are you listening Perry & Mills???
I can’t even see any realistic 3 team trade with the Lakers and NOLA with us as the third team. Nothing is jumping out on the trade machine anyway.
No way we get AD without giving up too much. Save our draft picks to actually draft someone unless its necessary to acquire a 2nd star/3rd star.
Side note:
Think of how much value the league squandered by wasting Chris Paul and Anthony Davis in New Orleans.
There’s too many shit markets in the league, and those markets have too much access to the league’s most valuable assets.
Only on forums and in bad organizations do managements treat their employees like commodities.
Of course he agreed. They laid out the case for why it was in the organization’s best interests for him to wait and he agreed to the incremental risk because he wants to win. If he told them he absolutely wanted an extension now and they came back and said “no” he could have easily responded “Then go F yourself if you think I’m going to work my ass off to come back this season, get hurt, and blow 10s of millions. I’ll wait until after free agency and my extension to start working really hard”.
It has actually been the other way around. He’s trying to come back this season and is frustrated by the organization’s pace.
The money matters a LOT, but so does winning and market and New Orleans is not marginal enough to assume the money wins in this case.
It’s going to be great when we end up with the 5th pick and a team like Dallas gets the #1 with 3% odds.
Oh, totally, but the Celtics can’t happen until the offseason. I meant now. Now, I think KP trumps all non Simmons deals, just based on hype. He was just an All Star last year at, what, 21 years old?
He has a great rep right now, deserved or not.
ugh…that “stay the course” stuff is tough…especially considering that we are in year one of a three year “rebuild” plan…with no guarantee of success in the 2022-2023 season…
i know – what about all those other shitty seasons we had over almost two full decades…
what makes it tough is that there is a possible way to “jumpstart”/accelerate the rebuild process if we are able to dump those timmy and lee contracts (at the cost of our last two lottery picks and possibly a future lottery pick) – sign 2 all star(ish) level free agents (one of whom hopefully would be a point guard), and get a solid player in this year’s draft…KP comes back healthy and productive – and, we are in the playoffs next year…
I’m all for jumpstarting the process via FA signings, but AD requires us to dump at least one pick and a solid asset.
After that we still have to dump Lee and Hardaway. That’s at least three 1st rounders, likely including Zion and KP in a package.
If we sign FA we dump Hardaway and Lee with future 1sts, then keep KP and hopefully draft Zion.
Roster: Kyrie, Kawhi, knox, Zion, KP
Beats roster: Kyrie, Ntilikina, Knox, ???, AD
How could Luka and Zion coexist?
😉
There are a lot of places that Zion could end up that would be pretty disruptive to the present and future of the NBA.
How attractive would they be in 20/21 when that idiotic Barnes contract rolls off?
We should not trade for anybody except to free up cap space. Barring a no brainer like when Toronto dumped Bargs on us.
I wouldn’t trade KP and the 2019 pick. No way. NO could have one or the other, plus a secondary asset, and some filler.
To those saying trade the 2019 pick with #1 protection, it’s a decent idea but it makes no sense for the Pelicans. They have no idea what our team could be like next year. The pick could easily be #10 or lower. If I’m the Pelicans I either take the 2019 unprotected or go for a different primary asset.
To people saying KP is in AD’s situation, no he’s not. He is a restricted free agent, so his team can match any deal. Unless he wants to take a 1 year deal or something (which IMO would be a pretty stupid risk just to get to a more marquee city) he’s stuck with whichever team owns him, as long as they’re willing to match. The 3rd contract is much different than the 2nd.
“Roster: Kyrie, Kawhi, knox, Zion, KP
Beats roster: Kyrie, Ntilikina, Knox, ???, AD”
I have no idea why all these projections have Zion on our roster. Again, the odds of that happening in the best case are 1 in 7. Even without him though, I think it’s a bad idea to trade our 2019 pick and KP for AD. Makes no sense, as the team won’t be good enough and AD is on a 1 year deal. If you could do it for just one of our two primary assets, then maybe as you can add a third star. But KP and the 2019 #1 for AD? Pass.
After watching this team get cut by Dolan’s Razor* so many times over the last couple of decades you’d think maybe people would slow their roll when it comes to acting like Zion Williamson is already on the team. There’s only a 14% chance of getting him, and when you factor in the Razor it becomes a 0% chance. Mock up those AD trade proposals with like Darius Garland instead.
*The most irritating possible outcome will be the actual outcome
KP could play hardball with NO by signing a Chandler Parsons type offer sheet for three years with a player option. This would guarantee him $72 million in case of disaster but leave NO with only one year longer than AD’s contract. That can’t be close to good to enough for them.
He’ll probably end up in New Orleans, after they trade Davis to the Lakers, and be the third generational talent to play his first 6 years in relative anonymity.
If we sit through a 15 win season and don’t end up with Zion Williamson I’d be pretty upset. It would irritate me beyond end if we picked something like 4th overall. The NBA needs to take action and make sure Zion Williamson ends up in New York or Chicago.
That is the worst case scenario. And even that gives them two years to put the pieces around him to make him happy (presumably with a better GM other than Demps and a cupboard full of draft picks and assets from trading Davis, Mirotic, Randle).
Trading the unprotected 2019 pick + Knox + Frank + salary matching garbage for AD is pretty much as no-brainer as they come for the Knicks, right? That’s basically trading a 14% chance at a great player for a 100% chance at a great player.
(And, depending on where the draft pick falls, it could be a better haul for NO than other marquee names have been traded for like Pau Gasol, Chris Paul, Garnett, Anthony, etc…)
I would be damn good with AD for Porzingis plus a top-1 protected pick this year, especially since I’m not excited about anyone below Zion.
Dunc’d podcast simulated the draft deadline (very realistic, btw), and ended up with the Pelicans telling the Celtics that they won’t wait until the summer if a good deal comes now, especially since we don’t know what Boston is offering, and their assets are worse than the other offers.
They took the Knicks offer of Kristaps, Hardaway, Lee, Kornet, and top-1-protected 2019 pick for Anthony Davis, Wesley Johnson, and Cheik Diallo. They asked for Knox, Frank, or Trier, and the Knicks said, eh- we don’t think you’re doing better with any other offers so no.
Would be nice if we were that good.
Is New York Privelege a thing? Cause you guys are whining like your shitty team is owed something that other teams aren’t, and that is cheesy.
I have no opinion.
After all these years, I simply have no expectations.
My mind tells me some combination of Davis for KP and other young guys on the Knicks or the #1 could work.
I think the Lakers’ “young guns” are more like young duds since Lebron went down. The value of what the Lakers have is greatly diminished.
That means the Knicks are closer than one might think.
But this is the franchise that can’t shoot straight.
In the end, they could flirt but miss out, alienate KP, who then demands a trade and the Knicks are fucked. Or they could sit tight and KP returns slower from his ACL injury and never really achieves his unicorn potential.
This is Dolan’s team after all.
I guess I have an opinion. lol
I don’t know about slowing our roll on Zion.
50% of my enjoyment of the Knicks right now is dreaming about Zion. The other 50% is Mitch Lob. That’s it.
The Dunc’d on guys did a mock trade deadline podcast with Kevin Pelton and Dan Feldman. Somehow they had us getting AD and getting rid of hardaway and lee. The trade was AD, chieck diallo, wesley johnson and ian clark for KP, Hardaway, lee and this year’s pick top 1 protected. I mean I would do that deal in a heartbeat but it seems pretty stupid from the NO point of view, except they made the point Hubert was making that NO wants to stay competitive…… i mean jrue holdiay, hardaway, lee, porzingis plus two lottery picks is a playoff team….???
I mean, if you were the Pels, what offer is better:
The Lakers’ Kuzma/Ball/Hart/KCP, and a Lakers pick (not great)
The Celtics’ Brown/Rozier/Smart, ?Tatum, and a combo of lower-1st round lottery picks
The Knicks’ Porzingis/Hardaway/Lee, and a top-1 protected 2019
I would argue KP and a top-5 pick isn’t worse than Tatum and the cost-controlled Boston horde.
Sorry, Demps is pretty dumb, but he’s not giving us top 1 protection on our pick. Only we would be stupid enough to do something like that.
1. Yes, it is definitely a thing.
2. I didn’t say anything about him needing to be here. I just don’t like when all time greats toil in anonymity on a bad franchise, and don’t want to stretch New Orleans run to 18 years of Paul, AD, Zion playing in front of empty seats for bad teams.
“If we sit through a 15 win season and don’t end up with Zion Williamson I’d be pretty upset. It would irritate me beyond end if we picked something like 4th overall. The NBA needs to take action and make sure Zion Williamson ends up in New York or Chicago.”
Our median expected outcome is below the #4 pick actually, so you are likely to get even worse than that outcome. Say it with me: we’re not getting Zion! It will take a giant fluke to do so, so going in with anything other than this mentality is setting yourself up for disappointment. Start looking at the other guys we can get.
“Trading the unprotected 2019 pick + Knox + Frank + salary matching garbage for AD is pretty much as no-brainer as they come for the Knicks, right? That’s basically trading a 14% chance at a great player for a 100% chance at a great player.”
The #2 pick has a 0% chance of being a great player? Not at all. There is a big drop-off after #1 (where you are getting a somewhat guaranteed star), but the #2 pick is still extremely valuable.
I also enjoyed the Dunc’d on mock trade deadline but I’m not sure it accurately reflected how much of a role Boston has to play in this whole thing. For the purposes of the podcast the two choices are basically “do a trade” or “don’t do a trade”, so it seemed kind of inevitable that the best current offer would end up getting done whereas the choice the Pels face is much more of “do a trade now” vs “do a trade in July”. In reality it really feels to me like the easy choice for Pels management right now is to kick the can down the road until July knowing that the Lakers offer isn’t going anywhere.
Prejudging draft quality on an overall basis is always an exercise in futility.
Certainly this year there is a significant drop in . . .star likelihood? after Zion. Barring injury or some off court stuff I would be very surprised if Zion isn’t a really good NBA player.
This is why I’d also happily move Porzingis for AD. I think Porzingis has more of a chance to turn into an all-star caliber player than I think some people here do, but if he’s healthy AD is essentially guaranteed to be one of the 10 best players in the league for the next 3 seasons at least. Aside from Giannis I’m not sure who else you can say that about.
oh
If any trade takes KP + our number one, we shouldn’t do it. That would leave us with AD, a bunch of role players (at best), and not much cap room.
If we could throw in THJ/Lee or both, then it becomes more possible to build a team that could then keep AD. But we’d have to KNOW that one of the Ks was coming…Kevin, Kawhi, Kyrie. No other players would be enough to merit the trade.
Even with AD and Kyrie (for instance), we still wouldn’t have enough to be a great team.
Therefore, I do not think we can trade both KP and our #1, even if we can dump salary to make room for Kyrie, even if we know Kyrie would sign if we had AD. We’d be stuck with few ways of getting better…even if Frank/Mitch/Knox improve a lot.
As I’ve said a hundred times — there will be good players, as always, after the #1 slot. I did a little digging and came up with this comment (sorry Farfa):
http://knickerblogger.net/roundtable-the-mid-season-tankies/#comment-487930
It’s a comment about how MCW was good value at #11 in 2013 because it was a “weak draft.” That was the consensus then, but now we have some hindsight: Gobert at 27. Giannis at 15. Plumlee at 22. Otto Porter at 3. Steven Adams at 12. So it wasn’t an objectively weak draft — it was that The Powers That B thought Anthony Bennett, Alex Len, Cody Zeller, Ben McLemome, KCP, Trey Burke, MCW and Shabazz Muhammad were worthy of lottery picks. The NBA braintrust totally fucked it up. There are some TERRIBLE picks on that list, and fantastic players above (who wouldn’t want to start their franchise in 2020 with a Gobert or Giannis?).
Same with 2014. Of the top 15 picks, here are the scrubs: Wiggins, Parker, Gordon (all upside, still), Exum, Stauskas, Vonleh, Payton, McDermott, LaVine, Warren and Adreian Payne. Garbage! Yet guys like Capela, Jokic, Anderson, Powell and Dinwiddie were lurking in the later picks.
So yeah, the hard part is identifying talent, but talent is in each and every draft; it’s rarely Zion-level, consensus #1 overall talent, but the talent is always there. The stupidity of franchise decision-makers is there, too.
Perhaps even harder is trying to convince a franchise as stupid as the Knicks that a player like Barrett is really not worth the #3 overall when you could trade down and pick the next Siakam (Brandon Clarke plz) at #17 while picking up, say, a couple future firsts or pick swaps or good underrated rookie players. I would weep if Mills & co. showed that kind of patience, foresight and strategery. But I think we’ll all be dead in a nuclear winter before Dolan comes around to running his franchise like the multi-billion business it is.
That said, trading our #1 would make the most sense. I’m not sure AD/KP is a perfect pairing, but it would be good enough given that both can score from outside. And it would leave us more room (assuming we worked the timing out with KP on his extension) to add a third piece. If we could unload Timmy or Lee on the deal, along with another sweetener in Knox, we’d be in perfect shape.
If I’m NO, I’m possibly getting better offers. But it could be a pretty good offer, especially not knowing whether the first round pick turned into #1. A chance at Zion, with a couple decent options after that, plus serviceable or promising players in Timmy and Knox, is better than what the Lakers can offer, and the Celtics unless they include Tatum.
I don’t prefer giving up KP instead of the #1 pick, because there is only a 14% chance the pick ends up #1 overall, and that is just too unlikely to bank on. If we did, however, it’s easy enough to ensure KP stays in NO – just tell the Pels that if they take THJ or Lee, “we’ll have the room to make a 4/$25m offer to KP at the stroke of midnight, which of course you might want to match.” KP has to sign that offer – too much risk not to – and the Pels match, and then they have him locked down.
If we OFFERED kp, 2019 #1 and didn’t include Timmy’s contract we would be screwed. That above offer is our godfather offer. And it’s probably not good enough to get a deal done as they would want Mitch and I would walk.
But what’s up with demps not taking calls. That’s all you need to know about how a bad gm operates. Like a pouting teenager.
It’s probably under the sofa cushion. Or, possibly, he dropped it in the toilet and it’s now in a bag of rice.
But don’t worry, he’ll get the messages and respond to them soon.
Just thinkin… Can KP just say he isn’t physically and mentally ready to play…sign his QO and just work out at the team facility until he becomes an UFA…..
Could he threaten NO or the Knicks with this a la Kwahi?
He totally could. There’s way too much risk for everyone involved for a team to ever take KP in a trade right now save him telling them, “I will re-sign with you.”
There’s enough risk for it to be annoying for the Knicks to be in this situation, no one is going to trade into this situation, particularly a team that is literally going through a star player refusing to sign with them long term right now!
Brian is on the money. But wouldn’t it be a perfect world to exchange one situation for the other
Mase, maybe he’s been getting so many calls he just needs a moment to chill and figure out what he wants to do going forward. He doesn’t have to trade him today. He has a few weeks before the trade deadline or he can trade him in the off season. A GM is under no obligation to immediately trade a player just because they’ve requested it.
So what’s he doing buying time?
He might all ready have like 5 different offers. Knicks, Lakers, 76ers and Bucks have all been mentioned as teams who are interested and those are just the ones being reported. AD is one of the top players in the league. Probably half the league is figuring out if they can make an offer for him. This isn’t even Jimmy Butler cause AD is still a lot younger and arguably an even better player and he isn’t doing shit like trolling his teammates in practice. Golden State is probably figuring out if they could trade for him.