Knicks Morning News (2024.11.08)

Nice to get Bucks on 2nd night of B2B.

Cavs Warriors tonight is a banger. ESPN unfortunately going with Mavs Suns instead.

Might be the year I go with league pass. Will be good to watch other teams for a few months to get the joy I’m missing while this team gels.

Small sample set

We’ve played 7 games

In the last 6
*We handily won 3 (IND, MIA, DET)
*Were a bounce or two away from winning the other 3 (CLE, HOU, ATL)

I’m concerned for sure. And MIL has all the feelings of a trap game.

I think we will be just fine. The level of doom projected here is an overstatement.

I think the gelling thing and “it takes time” thing is a cope. The 2007-08 Celtics started 8-0 and 18-2, with their two losses being a one-pointer and an OT loss to LeBron. I’m sure there are other examples out there.

And it’s worse here because “gelling” is going to pretty much involve merely Thibs tinkering to Thibs-ify things.

They have three purportedly “elite/excellent” wing defenders, KAT is leading the association in DReb%, and Josh Hart is a great rebounder. Tinkering with things to chase rebounding and defense makes zero sense; it should be able to be improved organically.

They only way forward is to go for that organic improvement and ride with this roster. (*) Thibs-ifying things is pointless.

(*) It may not happen. That becomes a different discussion.

Julius Randle at the 5 with Edwards, Donte, Walker-Alexander, and Reid has a 119.4 ORtg and a 94.8 DRtg in 34 minutes.

It’s kinda hard to believe we gave Jericho Sims 2000 mins at center the last few years while refusing to try Julius Randle for a few minutes bc “it just wouldn’t work.”

I don’t think you can look at any one team either way and make some assumption about how long it does or doesn’t take a team to gel.

Hell, Gobert and KAT’s first season together was a disaster and then they went to the WCF. The Beatles started out slow and then went to four straight finals.

Every team is different bc they’re all composed of different players who are people. Maybe it will take time to gel or maybe we’re fucked. Either way it’s way too early to make that call especially when the last two seasons our teams under Thibs have started slow.

The level of doom projected here is an overstatement.

I think maybe you’re the one overstating things. Did anyone besides Pagliacci project doom?

I still think we’re a 50 win, second round playoff team. Mitch will fix a lot of problems.

Now if Towns & OG start to miss time, then I can see doom on the horizon. This team is not built to withstand as many injuries as last year.

During the first games we’ve seen glimpses here and there (hence the blocks).

Step 1, KAT defending with his arms raised would be a nice step forward.
Step 2, KAT jumping vertically on defense with his arms raised would be a very significant step forward.

They’re not difficult things to do if you just want to, while defending with you arms lowered at your sides is really a difficult thing to do*.
I hope Thibs and the coaching staff can convince him…

Step 3, scheming defense to be more flexible, require time and a flexible coach.

Or we could just wait for Precious/Mitch…

* And it allows your opponents to hit 27 of 30 shots at the rim against you.

I still think we’re a 50 win, second round playoff team.

We’re gonna need a Knickerblogger lexicography because from this precinct, dumping the entire asset chest on a 50 win, second round playoff team looks pretty much like the virtual definition of “doom.”

Either way it’s way too early to make that call especially when the last two seasons our teams under Thibs have started slow.

7 games may be too early but at least it’s based on watching the team for 7 games.

You guys declared this team a title contender based on press clippings and betting action.

You guys declared this team a title contender based on press clippings and betting action.

That was premised on Mikal finding the sweet spot between 2023 and 2024 BKN and being a guy who could create and generate usage at high efficiency, as well as the plus or plus-plus defender he was purported to be.

That player is nowhere to be found, and I see no indication he will ever be found. (*) I’ve already resigned myself to the best-case description of this trade being: “Bad.” Firmly and safely within the Overton window is “one of the worst trades in Knick history, Billy King got Chernobyled for less.”

The Knicks have their own draft pick twice in the next seven years, once in the next six.

(*) And he is, without question, “redundant” with OG.

Julius Randle at the 5 with Edwards, Donte, Walker-Alexander, and Reid has a 119.4 ORtg and a 94.8 DRtg in 34 minutes.

Is Naz Reid not playing C in that configuration? That seems like a Reid at the 5 lineup.

“We’re gonna need a Knickerblogger lexicography because from this precinct, dumping the entire asset chest on a 50 win, second round playoff team looks pretty much like the virtual definition of “doom.””

I don’t think the word “doom” should apply, but bitter disappointment is certainly in the conversation. The likelihood is that this team is a mostly finished product for the next couple of years. After that, there will be flexibility. Thibs is on the clock, and if the Knicks underperform he will jettisoned. KAT will still have market value and could be swapped out for either picks or good players. Hart will be near the end of his deal. If Mikal underperforms he will at least be signed for a non-max extension. Think about how many times guys like Riley and Cuban have retooled after appearing to have painted themselves into a corner. Cleveland looked like they might lose Spida shit last year and are all of a sudden making noise.

The main thing is that the Bridges and KAT trades are sunk costs and Leon now has to find that balance between making panicky moves and standing pat for too long. For now, it is way to early to make any kind of sweeping judgments about anything. Give it 20 games or so.

I think something is up with Brunson. He seems to be lacking some burst. He gets into the paint and just stops. He tweaked his ankle early on, I wonder if it is affecting him.

Moreover, the team seems vulnerable to speed and length. We are getting beat to the spot on both ends. Hopefully that is more indecision than anything else, and with enough film and reps we can slow the game down.

By way of possibly realizing some salvage value, I was kind of brainstorming the idea of putting the ball in Mikal’s hands more from time to time as a primary initiator (*), then I checked his career assist numbers and … well, no, that’s not really gonna work either.

In his BKN what looks now like adrenaline-filled mirage, he averaged fewer than 3 assists per 36. He basically chucked.

(*) And of course this would be pure tail-chasing anyway, because they already had two guys who would be and were way better in that quasi-role in the now-jettisoned RJ Barrett and Julius Randle.

“If Mikal underperforms he will at least be signed for a non-max extension.”

Isn’t he thinking he’s getting a full max, though? Didn’t he just turn down the two-year max? Serious, not rhetorical, question. I’ve forgotten the details.

In any event, he isn’t remotely worth a max.

Julius Randle at the 5 with Edwards, Donte, Walker-Alexander, and Reid has a 119.4 ORtg and a 94.8 DRtg in 34 minutes.

Is Naz Reid not playing C in that configuration? That seems like a Reid at the 5 lineup.

Yeah, that’s actually a pretty big lineup compared to the configurations the Knicks would have been rolling out there. Edwards alone is a beast who plays much bigger than he is.

That said, I would have liked to have seen it tried here with Randle, OG, Bridges, DDV and Brunson, and think it would have if the trade didn’t happen.

That said, I would have liked to have seen it tried here with Randle, OG, Bridges, DDV and Brunson, and think it would have if the trade didn’t happen.

I’d go back even further to the 2023 playoff team, with Obi swapped out for DDV. You can certainly make a case to swap out RJ for OG (*) in January given Randle crowding out the ball and Brunson needing the ball more, rendering RJ’s skillset kind of redundant — but now that Randle’s gone, that becomes a premise fail.

And then after that doubling down on low usage 3 & D (**) at the cost of five 1s looks positively ridiculous.

KAT for Randle/DDV is easily defensible on the merits, less so as part of a philosophical team build based on what had happened before. They’ve now lost all non-Brunson perimeter offensive creativity. And their depth is shit.

(*) But even then, not for adding IQ to the package going out.

(**) Or, in Mikal’s case, “D.”

In terms of that specific 5-man lineup, even assuming Thibs would have played it, OG and Mikal don’t rebound well enough, or even close to well enough really, for it to have worked.

The curiosity is perfectly understandable, but that’s the cold reality.

When we have Mitch and Precious back and are still playing badly I will get worried. Not worried at all now.

If we had Naz Reid to play center I suspect our team would be 5-2

Julius Randle at the 5 with Edwards, Donte, Walker-Alexander, and Reid has a 119.4 ORtg and a 94.8 DRtg in 34 minutes.

small sample cherry picking double whistle. 99 minutes randle on without gobert, neutral net rating below average defense.

1. I think we mostly all still agree the Knicks are good. Most of the conversation reflects a desire to be a top 5 team in the league that’s close enough to Boston to pull off an upset. So we are highlighting the weaknesses. IMO, we are going to be a top 1-4 offense. The question is can we be a top 10 defense and how do we get there.

2. There’s nothing wrong with Bridges on offense. He’s as good as he ever was. He’s 3rd option on this team behind Brunson and Towns. OG is going to get his looks and Hart is doing more scoring than expected. There are only so many shots in a game. If we need more from him at times, he can give it to us. There’s nothing at all wrong with the offense other than maybe too much dribbling by Brunson, working out the kinks and needing a little more scoring from the bench (which may be there once we get healthy and develop the young players).

3. My guess is Leon and Thibs are going to take a good look at this team until Mitch is back and we get close to the trade deadline and then they may decide to make one more move to improve the defense.

“dumping the entire asset chest on a 50 win, second round playoff team looks pretty much like the virtual definition of “doom.”

While others may take issue with your definition of doom, I take issue with “dumping the entire asset chest.” Every player on the roster outside of KAT and OG is on a value contract and we could flip KAT for equivalent assets in a heartbeat. We may or may not “gel”, Thibs may or may not be the correct coach for this bunch, but we have lots of options to fix the issues that may become evident as people settle in.

Fun thread so far, with three doomsters putting up most of the posts, sending most of the rest of us into curled fetal positions.

To be fair, I came on to note that Macri’s newsletter today was a really damning piece that the Doom Patrol would really appreciate. Normally I like to pull out a ‘best quote’ to put here, but there were about ten that were soul shocking. In essence, lots of things that need fixing.

I’d link to it but it comes to me as an email.

dumping the entire asset chest on a 50 win, second round playoff team looks pretty much like the virtual definition of “doom.”

It’s just one year, E.

And we didn’t dump the whole chest. There’s still moves that can be made with Hart, Deuce, Mitch, Precious, Kolek, Dadiet.

Naz Reid is a 6’9” perimeter shooter. You can call him the center if you like, but I could just as easily call OG Anunoby or Obi Toppin the center in the lineups we refused to try.

Obi Toppin-Pascal Siakim lineups (which is about as close to an Obi-Randle pairing as one can muster) are plus 5.8 in 61 mins, btw.

“While others may take issue with your definition of doom, I take issue with “dumping the entire asset chest.” Every player on the roster outside of KAT and OG is on a value contract and we could flip KAT for equivalent assets in a heartbeat. We may or may not “gel”, Thibs may or may not be the correct coach for this bunch, but we have lots of options to fix the issues that may become evident as people settle in.”

This is mostly fair. The “outside of KAT” and “we could flip him for equivalent assets in a heartbeat” seems like a bit of sugarcoating to me. It is questionable that we could acquire a healthy 2X all-NBA player in his prime plus possibly one of the best pull-up 3pt shooters in the NBA who also plays D for KAT right now. Your assessment runs contrary to my feeling that there is not much of a gap between KAT and Randle, especially when salary is considered. Nothing I have seen thus far has changed my opinion on that. Throw in DDV and the pick and it’s a net loss.

Also, you could never, ever get back what we traded for Mikal by flipping him, probably nothing even close. True, he’s on a value contract, but he has to play orders of magnitude better than he has just to come close justifying that trade, and if he doesn’t, it will be a bitter pill to swallow. I am cautiously optimistic that he will, but if we need to pivot, he will not bring back much value.

Still, the larget point that we could pivot without having to go into long-term purgatory is valid. Someone like Ainge could swap out Brunson, KAT and OG for picks and go into tanking mode in the two years coming up that we have our firsts. Others could make coaching and personnel changes around Brunson, possibly including any of KAT, OG or Bridges, to fire up the hybrid method again. This is not “all-in” in the 2012-13 sense of the word.

“Naz Reid is a 6’9” perimeter shooter. You can call him the center if you like, but I could just as easily call OG Anunoby or Obi Toppin the center in the lineups we refused to try.”

Naz is the primary reason why Minny felt KAT was expendable. He is a versatile big who has played 77% of his career minutes as a C. He is not Sam Hauser. He is also not OG, who has not played C, like, ever.

Small sample set. Last 6 games: 3 convincing wins. 3 close losses that could have gone either way.

You (the most negative of you) are lying to yourself if you think you would be saying the same thing if 2 of the 3 close games bounced the other way…it’s sloppy to be so convinced in any direction given what we’ve seen.

Fun thread so far, with three doomsters putting up most of the posts, sending most of the rest of us into curled fetal positions.

Quote me predicting doom, troll.

Okay, I wasn’t going to do this as it just feeds the trolls, but I’m feeling quite apathetic today, so here are Macri’s main factoids. Apologies to Jonathan, and I recommend that everyone who doesn’t get the newsletter do so forthwith.

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/subscribe?utm_source=menu&simple=true&next=https%3A%2F%2Fknicksfilmschool.substack.com%2F

Hart is averaging 2.3 turnovers per 36 minutes, up from 1.6 since he arrived.

Deuce hasn’t hit a shot from floater range: He’s 0-for-12 from between four and 14 feet.

KAT is shooting 49 percent at the rim.

Mikal is taking only 14 percent of his shots in the restricted area
while last year’s team held offenses to 63.8 percent shooting at the basket (good for 7th best in the league), this year’s team ranks 28th, allowing teams to shoot 72.4 percent in the restricted area.

only two teams take a lower percentage of their own shots at the rim than the Knicks (although last year wasn’t much better, when they ranked 22nd).

When Jalen Brunson hasn’t been on the court, New York’s defense has improved by 8.0 points per 100 possessions.

the Knicks have given up just 95.1 points per 100 possessions in the 111 possessions Bridges has sat and 122.7 in the 520 he’s played. There’s surely noise in those numbers, but still…woof.

the Knicks are taking 13.2 percent more shots at the rim when Hart plays, which is in the 99th percentile league-wide. When Deuce is in the game, they take 8.7 percent fewer shots in the restricted area, which is in the second percentile across the NBA.

New York ranked 21st in defensive rating. Worse yet, according to Cleaning the Glass, opponents have a 57.7 effective field goal percentage when facing Knick defenders, which is the third highest figure in the league.

New York also isn’t generating many turnovers (23rd overall), so opponents are getting comfy in more ways than one.

Jalen is second in the league to Trae Young in average time of possession and first among rotation players in average seconds per touch. That’s a far cry from last year when he was…

First in the league in average time of possession and first among rotation players in average seconds per touch.

Herein lies the problem. Brunson hasn’t really adjusted at all (and is actually holding the ball slightly longer and dribbling slightly more).

If you had asked me at the outset of this whether the player acquired in the big all-in, asset cash-out move should be Mikal Bridges, I would have said that was an absurd idea. Of course you don’t trade five 1RPs for Mikal Bridges.

Watching it play out in the real world though, it seems pretty clear that if there ever WAS a true cash-out superstar that became available, we’d be outgunned when it came time to trade for that player by one of the more asset-rich teams.

Mikal hasn’t been terrible on the offensive end, and I think at least some of his issues on defense are scheme-related. He’s long and wiry and a smart player, and he’s 28 and has always been healthy, so it’s not like he should be washed at his age. It would be Knicksy but unlikely if he turned into Jamal Crawford on the defensive end all of a sudden.

I just can’t get too worked up about the opportunity cost of trading for him, because that package of picks was always going to get beaten if a real top tier star ever came on the market.

Just to clarify, I’m far from doom and gloom right now, but neither am I a wide-eyed optimist. The best way to characterize my current mood is “show me” and by that, I mostly mean in the playoffs. That is the proving ground where fatal flaws get exposed and exploited. The Spida-Gobert Jazz are a great example. So are the 2022-23 Cavs, and to a lesser degree, the 2022-23 Celts.

Thankfully, there is still at least some room to maneuver. You never know when that trade for a Jrue Holiday can pop up out of nowhere. Or that unheralded draft pick or UDFA becomes a rotation stud.

“The “outside of KAT” and “we could flip him for equivalent assets in a heartbeat” seems like a bit of sugarcoating to me….Also, you could never, ever get back what we traded for Mikal by flipping him, probably nothing even close.”

Yeah, I probably should have made my point much clearer. It was not meant to be an opinion on whether we had a net asset loss on the KAT or Mikal trades (which by definition we did in the scenario where we need to make more trades since we paid out in part for their fit and that won’t be recouped) but rather we don’t have an empty asset chest.

Hart and Brunson continued on with the weekly thursday “Roomates Podcast” so they don’t seem to care much.

JK’s analysis reads as an indictment of the entire “hoard rather than use draft picks” strategy, which never made much sense from the get-go. Frankly, there’s probably some degree of Dolan involved in that being the “strategy” in the first instance.

We don’t need to revisit the entire litany of misses and incinerations here, but if this was going to be the end product (*), they should have just drafted in the normal course, as every other franchise would have.

(*) Not meant literally. Yes, of course they could luck into something like a Jrue Hollday trade. Although they no longer have the draft picks to do something like that, narrowing the plausible universe considerably.

small sample cherry picking double whistle

Guilty as charged. I was watching Jericho Sims play basketball recently, though, and had a very hard time believing we would have been much worse giving Randle a go.

I’m now starting to see chatter about Brooklyn being a strong contender for the Giannis sweepstakes based on… All those picks we gave them for Mikal. Given that we’re already not much better than them, man, that would be a nuclear winter for us.

Regardless, it’s pretty clear that trade will go down with the Eddy Curry trade as an unmitigated disaster for the ages. We probably could have drafted two 3&D guys with those picks and they’d have been cheap and maube actually good on defense.

As I said last year, we had our peak team of the decade and our contender status left with iHart.

Hart and Brunson continued on with the weekly thursday “Roomates Podcast” so they don’t seem to care much.

Except that they renamed it the Doomates Podcast.

Naz Reid is a 6’9” perimeter shooter. You can call him the center if you like, but I could just as easily call OG Anunoby or Obi Toppin the center in the lineups we refused to try.

So is Myles Turner, but I call him a C because he plays C.

Was Randle anchoring the defense or was Reid? I suspect it was Reid because he is usually listed at C and BK-Ref attributes a majority of his minutes to the C position. He blocks shots, he rebounds, and he’s taller than Randle. He seems like a C.

The idea that Naz Reid is actually a wing or something is low key one of the most hilarious things posted here in a while.

Of course, comparing the Bridges trade to the Eddy Curry trade, which was what originally brought me to this wonderful website, is equally hilarious.

Keep it coming, I need the laughs….

Glad you liked it bc you completely made it up!

The idea is that any forward is a center if you play him there.

Naz Reid, Isaiah Stewart, Draymond Green, Al Horford… all these guys are 6’9″ or smaller and would be considered forwards 99% of the time.

It’s been 7 games. We’ll be fine.

As I said last year, we had our peak team of the decade and our contender status left with iHart.

IMO, that’s over the top. We all agree he was big loss because we didn’t get anything back and he had a lot of value.

We basically swapped defense for offense at C.

Now, instead of having the 7th offense and 10th defense, we have the 4th offense and 21st defense. IMO, both sides will improve in time, but the goal is to get back to a top 10 defense with 1-3 offense.

This blog is a great example of why players have zero interest in playing in NY for the Knicks. The panic over 7 regular season games for a brand new team is amazing.

A lineup with Randle and Reid is a lineup with two PFs. Which one you call the center is arbitrary.

What is troubling to me right now is what JK pointed out yesterday…that the last two losses involved weaker teams just going after our defensive shortcomings, especially KAT.

We basically swapped defense for offense at C.

That’s kinda like swapping wings for wheels on a plane, though.

The Warriors being the number one team in the league at the moment when their big change was adding Buddy Hield should tell you all you want know about not overreacting to early season results.

Ben Wallace and Julius Randle are both 6’9. Which one you call the center doesn’t really matter.

this is like some sort of intervention on twins-raised-apart experiment in the wild. second link is nsfw.

https://x.com/duanerankin/status/1854934720578027679?s=46

https://x.com/duanerankin/status/1854933958644912232?s=46

Ben Wallace and Julius Randle are both 6’9. Which one you call the center doesn’t really matter.

Precisely! Now just substitute Naz Reid for Ben Wallace and you’ve repeated made my point. Thank you.

The idea that Ben Wallace is actually a wing or something is low key one of the most hilarious things posted here in a while.

Not as funny as all the people who proclaimed we were a 60 win team after the KAT trade telling everyone to stop overreacting, though.

That’s kinda like swapping wings for wheels on a plane, though.

Moving OG to PF, adding Mikal and moving Hart into the starting lineup was supposed to be an offsetting PLUS to the defense relative to Randle. That has yet to materialize perhaps because defensive issues at C are more important than defensive issues at PF and/or Mikal is not defending so well so far.

Moving OG to PF, adding Mikal and moving Hart into the starting lineup was supposed to be an offsetting PLUS to the defense relative to Randle. That has yet to materialize perhaps because defensive issues at C are more important than defensive issues at PF and/or Mikal is not defending so well so far.

It’s never going to materialize because you can’t offset zero rim protection with three perimeter defenders.

this is like some sort of intervention on twins-raised-apart experiment in the wild. second link is nsfw.

https://x.com/duanerankin/status/1854934720578027679?s=46

https://x.com/duanerankin/status/1854933958644912232?s=46

Can anyone classify the appendages coming out of Oso’s shoulder sockets? Have they grafted limbs belonging to an arthropod or starfish?

It’s never going to materialize because you can’t offset rim protection with perimeter defense. Everyone gets to the rim in this league.

Easy to test through volatility of percentage attempts at the rim and the trifecta line and volatility of percentage allowed.

Just in raw numbers, if I’m reading it right, the Knicks are eighth in the league at allowing fewest shots between 0-3 feet and 22nd in percentage allowed once opponents get there. League average at the rim is .689, Knicks are allowing .710. (Interestingly, the Wolves are worse in rim% allowed).

Knicks are fourth worst in % of shots allowed that are trifectas…..

… and tenth best in 3pt% allowed.

But in any event, the thesis that rim protection is the most important part of defense is easily testable. Does it even statistically meaningfully correlate with DRat? If it doesn’t, the thesis is BS.

It’s never going to materialize because you can’t offset zero rim protection with three perimeter defenders.

We’ll see over time if they can get the defense into the top 10 because I’m sure as hell not worried about the offense. It’s 4th now with a injury riddled bench, the slowest pace in the NBA and not much coherent offense yet. I’m pretty sure the offense is going to get better.

you can’t offset zero rim protection with three perimeter defenders.

I refuse to despair this early in the season, but do we even have *one* lockdown perimeter defender? And by what measure?

Once upon a time, everyone said Frank was gonna be that guy, but no. Then Deuce was that guy, but I don’t see it. OG has looked promising in spurts, but Mikal has never looked like that guy to me — the guy who just shuts down the opposing team’s “Alpha.”

In the last game, Risacher seemed to just go off, and we had no answer, nor did I get the impression Thibs made any real adjustment. We can all say “our scheme was poor” and “nobody is gelling, yet” and blah blah blah, but, ultimately, shouldn’t we just put our best defender on their best scorer to stop the insanity when necessary?

By contrast, Brunson gets stopped all the time with similar adjustments from opponents. Do we not have that kind of plus-plus defender? Wasn’t one promised to us? 😉

(PS — or do they not exist, and I watched too much Dennis Rodman in my formative years?)

OG is about as good as it gets but there’s really no such thing as a guy who can lock down the perimeter anymore.

Mike Krzyzewski used to do this all the time at Duke: he’d take his top recruits, prime athletes, and tell them to stop him from getting to the rim. They couldn’t. He was in his 60’s, and he could get to the rim against 5 star recruits using simple motion offense techniques like “catching the ball on the run”. And he did this to teach them that no matter how good you are, guys are going to get past you, and you need to work as a team to play defense.

Brunson as you alluded to can be bothered by length, like when the Sixers put Oubre or Batum on him. But he got by those guys every time. It was the whole “now Embiid’s there” bit that made their length matter bc it helped them recover.

I must say that thank god Deuce discovered his offense, because his defense has never really developed. He’s not a bad defender by any stretch of the imagination, but nor is he a difference-maker.

(PS — or do they not exist, and I watched too much Dennis Rodman in my formative years?)

A couple things on that from one with the same formative years:

1. There’s way more ball movement, screen/roll, three-ball now than then and way less iso. All else equal that would depress the weight of any particular individual’s defense.

2. The best offensive guys then and now can get their stuff off successfully even on the world’s best defenders. World class defense isn’t really worth anything close to world class offense.

In terms of the musings above, this obviously isn’t definitive, but the Knick defense overall in the 2023 playoffs was outstanding overall, best in the league. It had little to do with rim protection. They were 14th out of 16th in percentage of rim attempts allowed, and only 6th in rim percentage allowed. League average rim shot percentage allowed was 686, the Knicks’ was 678.

KBA, we don’t have that guy. We paid far, far above market for him and didn’t get him. There are 100 better defenders in the league and most of them were drafted or acquired for peanuts.

Thibs doesn’t seem to want to accept that we die on every screen and can’t protect the rim. Maybe once we fire him we’ll see if a switching defense will work.

And fire him we very likely will:
-MIL has their stars back on track and is not as bad as their record
-IND we won’t beat on the road
-PHI will have Embiid back
-CHI is a SeGaBaBa schedule loss

We’re very likely 3-7 and he’ll be feeling like Biden after the debate.

the Knick defense overall in the 2023 playoffs was outstanding overall, best in the league. It had little to do with rim protection.

I’m not buying Mitchell Robinson had little to do with the Knicks defense dominating the Cavs.

Let’s keep it 100, Leon will not fire Thibs this year unless players turn on him, which they won’t. We going into playoffs with Thibs as the head coach this year betting that he will fully adapt.

In terms of the musings above, this obviously isn’t definitive, but the Knick defense overall in the 2023 playoffs was outstanding overall, best in the league.

E, you’ve cited this a couple times but this is more to do with the quality of opposition than our defense. MIA was 25th on offense that year and while CLE was 9th, their offense hasn’t held up against any playoff defense they’ve faced recently.

I don’t know it’s just hard for me to get worked up or mad about the Knicks underperforming when our country is about to become a fascist country.

E, you’ve cited this a couple times but this is more to do with the quality of opposition than our defense. MIA was 25th on offense that year and while CLE was 9th, their offense hasn’t held up against any playoff defense they’ve faced recently.

Miami’s regular season offense is irrelevant.

our country is about to become a fascist country.

This is someone who told me to stop overreacting today.

I never said such things, Hubs.

I don’t think I’m overreacting. If he does everything he said he wants to do it would amount to fascism. Maybe not n’ai Germany fascism but it will be fascism nonetheless. And there’s not going to be a single branch of government that will be able to push back on him.

Buckle up.

PHI will have Embiid back

You never learn, do you, Pags?

Hot takes are a big part of what we do here, I’m not gonna kick hot takes to the curb.

That said, I feel good about my predictions of our defense being a mess at the start of the season, a top 3 offense, 48 wins, and making the ECF against the Celtics. For me nothing has changed.

Edit: spell check has already become Fascist

I don’t think I’m overreacting. If he does everything he said he wants to do it would amount to fascism. Maybe not n’ai Germany fascism but it will be fascism nonetheless. And there’s not going to be a single branch of government that will be able to push back on him.

Facts. We just watched a billionaire candidate for POTUS create a new government department specifically for the richest man in the world to use for his personal whims and sell it to him, and America cheered them for protecting us from the elites.

It’s not German-style fascism, it’s Russian style. A kleptocratic oligarchy that by degrees normalizes the dismantling of the rule of law. Putin was popular too, until he didn’t need to be.

I’m leaning in on Knicks doomerism because in comparison, it feels uplifting.

Just in raw numbers, if I’m reading it right, the Knicks are eighth in the league at allowing fewest shots between 0-3 feet and 22nd in percentage allowed once opponents get there. League average at the rim is .689, Knicks are allowing .710. (Interestingly, the Wolves are worse in rim% allowed).

with KAT at center, opponents are shooting 76.1% at the rim so far

You never learn, do you, Pags?

What do you mean? This is factual: https://www.sportsnet.ca/nba/article/report-76ers-joel-embiid-to-make-season-debut-tuesday-vs-knicks/

Am I supposed to be optimistic about our defense handling the best scorer in the league?

no matter how good you are, guys are going to get past you, and you need to work as a team to play defense.

Sure, point taken. I get that the game has changed — less ISO and so on — but it still often comes down to that last shot, right? And it still matters if our guys have the advantage one on one at the buzzer. I want to believe we do have it on D in OG/Mikal.

And, yes, Team Defense is s’posed to be the whole Thibs thing, right? So I will be patient as he puts it together.

I think it was Cyber who said it just doesn’t yet feel like these guys have the same urgency as last year’s squad, which had a clear identity — misfit toys, underachievers, guys with chips on their shoulders. I totally agree.

Maybe once Brunson is done with the midnight baby feedings, he may be able to rouse these guys.

Opponents are probably shooting that way at the rim because they are able to just spam the same play over and over: set a high screen which eats the PnR defender, drive to the basket, Towns comes over to help, can’t help, opponent gets layup or misses layup then opposing big lays in offensive rebound because Towns is out of position after trying and failing to protect the rim.

I’m not an X’s and O’s guy but surely there must be SOME way to slow down the opponent running this same fucking play eight million times every game. I get it that Towns is not a great rim protector or even a competent one. That’s a flaw. MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT. We’re 29th in the league in opponent 2pt% allowed so you can’t even blame this on the ISM not showing up this year.

It seems to me to be both a personnel AND a scheme problem. You can’t really do a whole lot about the former, but you CAN do something about the latter. There is more than one way to guard a basic screen play.

If he does everything he said he wants to do it would amount to fascism.

Promises Made. Promises Kept. History tells us that Trump will try to do what he says and most likely succeed to a more significant degree than last time… (he had congress in 2016 too) but can share some examples of how you anticipate USA moves from capitalism to fascism?

surely there must be SOME way to slow down the opponent running this same fucking play eight million times every game … MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT.

I suspect Thibs is not willing to toss his scheme, yet. Instead he’s waiting for his personnel “to make the right read” or “play harder” or whatever he’s barking in the locker room. Maybe he never adjusts. Maybe there’s a set number of games in his mind before he adjusts. Maybe he’s waiting for Mitch/Precious, i.e. the “right” personnel. Who knows.

Thibs is a way better coach than I am, so I’ll give him a little longer.

What do you mean?

“Embiid is back so we’re going to lose” is something you said ad nauseum last year before we played them in the playoffs and didn’t lose. I thought maybe you’d learn something from that.

There is more than one way to guard a basic screen play.

We’ve been bad covering screens in all sorts of ways. A lot of it looks like miscommunication that should improve.

As someone who has viscerally hated Trump for like 50 years, I am less worried about the fascist rhetoric than Conservatism’s negative impact on entitlement programs, government-run agencies, and foreign affairs. I think there is more than enough meat in the Constitution to keep him from becoming the kind of “strongman” that folks fear he might become. But there will definitely be more privatization of things traditionally in government hands. If it works well and folks feel positive, i.e. polls say that the vast majority of Americans feel that the country is on the right track, he’ll be validated and there will be more of the same. If it doesn’t, and the polls look like they did for Biden (70+% wrong track), he (or the next Republican nominee) will be defeated as soundly as Kamala was defeated this time. Despite my utter disgust for the fact that he is back in office, that’s my take.

The percentage of shots taken at the rim so far this year is .248. Two-pointers between the rim and the trifecta line account for .335 and the Knicks aren’t very good at defending them, either. Second to last from 3-10 feet (.201 of overall shots league-wide); 20th from 10-16 feet (.085); 16th from 16 feet to the trifecta line (.049).

There’s nothing really unique about the rim; they simply suck at 2-point defense (last in the association).

My guess is that this pattern would be typical and there’s nothing unique or leverage-causing about being good at the rim — as distinguished from simply being good. Most likely, over statistically significant sample sizes, good defenses overall will tend to be good at the rim; shitty defenses overall will tend to be shitty at the rim and being good at the rim is no more important than being good anywhere else and in fact, probably less since only about 25% of association shots are taken at the rim.

The whole thing strikes me as an old-school, Hickory High bromide like if you’re good at the rim it shows your “toughness” or somesuch.

KBA, the other thing to note is the Risacher, previous to the game against us, was averaging 11 pt/g and shooting 34% from the field, and 21% from three.

I thought it was weird that whenever he shot he seemed to have Deuce on him (eye test alert!), as there’s a six-inch difference. No idea if that was because of switches or not.

I think a legitimate argument can be made that Thibs did not in-game strategize to shut down a rookie having a wildly anomalous game (so far, I suspect we’ll be seeing more of the lad as time goes on). But the assumption was that shutting down Trae was the important thing (he scored 23 pts but only shot 33% from the field and from three, so sorta?).

I feel good about my predictions of our defense being a mess at the start of the season, a top 3 offense, 48 wins, and making the ECF against the Celtics.

Doomster!

KBA, the other thing to note is the Risacher, previous to the game against us, was averaging 11 pt/g and shooting 34% from the field, and 21% from three … the assumption was that shutting down Trae was the important thing (he scored 23 pts but only shot 33% from the field and from three, so sorta?).

Raven — Great point (and something I did not know about Risacher’s stats to date).

For sure Thibs seems like a guy who will die holding fast to his schemes before ever changing something mid-game. Maybe that consistency is to his credit. IDK.

But maybe that’s also why we have the running joke ~ “Which non-star is gonna go off on us tonight?”

he (or the next Republican nominee) will be defeated

Per the 22nd Amendment, it will not be him. That’s the silver lining to all this. If he’d lost he’d have been back in 4 years anyway. At least now the end is in sight.

Per the 22nd Amendment, it will not be him. That’s the silver lining to all this. If he’d lost he’d have been back in 4 years anyway. At least now the end is in sight.

he is going to change that rule too…so he can get another 4 when this terms is done…

Per the 22nd Amendment, it will not be him.

But what about the very beautiful and necessary 28th Amendment? Some people are saying it might be the best amendment in American history. That’s what they’re saying anyway….

EDIT: haha. pepper. in sync.

Not only did the Constitution entirely hold in the first Trump term, but the system rallied around the Constitution with a number of “off-book” checks and balances. Start with the generally much higher level of vigilance from the other players in the system, then turn to things like the Mueller investigation and a number of other things in the same vein. Trump I was probably the most watchdogged chief executive in American history, the most checked, the most balanced.

No reason to think that won’t happen this time around.

OTOH, Hitler strongarmed the German parliament into turning over to him the legislative power of Germany within two months of being named Chancellor.

The provocative language makes people feel good, and that’s important I guess — but there’s no real comparison whatsoever.

I think he is already in mental decline, and doubt he would try that. Even if he did, the amendment is very clear and it would take 2/3 majority to overturn it. Now a fascist would just use the military and secret police to stay in power. I don’t see that happening without an actual civil war. And while there are armed paramilitary organizations and loads of assault weapons among his supporters, I just don’t see that happening.

“Embiid is back so we’re going to lose” is something you said ad nauseum last year before we played them in the playoffs and didn’t lose. I thought maybe you’d learn something from that.

I don’t know if you’ve noticed but our team is worse now, especially defensively. Our two most effective defenders on Embiid won’t be available.

I also think that there is a significant chance that Trump either dies or suffers a major health event before the end of his term. He eats terribly, is morbidly obese, and the job is incredibly demanding. Then the question will become: does JD Vance have fascist tendencies and how far will he go? Will he appoint the Bond villain as his VP?

Not only did the Constitution entirely hold in the first Trump term, but the system rallied around the Constitution with a number of “off-book” checks and balances. Start with the generally much higher level of vigilance from the other players in the system, then turn to things like the Mueller investigation and a number of other things in the same vein.

Absolute nonsense. Bill Barr turned the Mueller investigation into a farce. History now remembers it as exonerating Trump from all Russian influence/collusion when its findings were the opposite.

GOP openly plans to clear the DOJ of everyone who isn’t a Trump loyalist, with the exact objective that even that ineffective check will be off the table.

When Trump fomented a mob to overturn the election by force, what check was applied? He paid ZERO political or criminal consequences for that. His VP is hand-selected for his willingness to refuse to certify any election result disadvantageous to the GOP. Jan 6 will now be tried every time there’s an electoral result they don’t like.

If the Democrats win the 2028 election, what makes you think it won’t be “stolen?” What makes you think JD Vance will certify his own defeat? It’s a freeroll! The guardrails barely held in 2021 against a disorganized, barely planned coup attempt. What makes you think they’ll hold this time?

The argument I expect from you here is an argument from incredulity — the exact argument you’d have responded with if I told you on Jan 5, 2021 that Trump would send a mob to intimidate Congress into overturning the election while he gleefully watched it all unfold on TV.

Trump I was probably the most watchdogged chief executive in American history, the most checked, the most balanced.

This has something to do with his being uniquely corrupt. Appointing his children to government positions, refusing to divest from his businesses or reveal anything about his finances, stealing government secrets to show off or sell (no consequences for that either!), subverting foreign policy to help his political fortunes…

The checks have fallen away one by one. All of this shit is normalized now, when it used to be taboo just to refuse to release one’s tax returns. The fundamental character of our nation is changing from a high-trust society to low-trust. From rule of law to personalism. And this is just the conservative, factual case based on things he’s already done. JD Vance is far less lazy, demented, and disorganized. He’ll run this ball all the way down the field.

Now a fascist would just use the military and secret police to stay in power.

Even that assumes there would be material elements of the military and police that would go along, and that’s a ludicrous thought in the United States.

If Trump had attempted to, let’s say, order the National Guard to arrest Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi on January 6th, he Trump would have been immediately arrested and jailed, convicted in impeachment, and tried and convicted of insurrection/treason. 95% of the country would have fully supported all of that.

There’s zero chance of any elements of the military or police or National Guard violating their oaths and being personally loyal to Donald Trump.

Z-Man

I don’t want to get into politics too much, but I generally agree with you.

I’ll just add this.

IMO Trump is an ego-manic, narcissist, braggart, womanizer, extremely insensitive, insecure, and so on, but the rhetoric about him coming from political opponents and opposition media is so beyond nonsensical it’s almost dangerous because it’s causing mental health problems among people on the left that believe it all.

He’s going to do some things some people will not like (including me) and I wouldn’t want to be anyone at the FBI, CIA or in politics that crossed him with lies, but mostly he’s going to be fine. He has teamed up with a few former centrist democrats and also has a few big contributors and supporters that are centrist democrats that abandoned the democrats for now.

In fact, we may see some real good.

Putin, Hamas and others are already calling for negotiations and peace because of the perception that he’s a loose cannon. The great irony is that they call him Hitler and he’s more like Chamberlain looking to make deals with dictators and terrorists.

It will take some time and some people may whine about the deals because in any negotiation you have to compromise (Zelensky), but IMO acceptable peace beats 100s of thousands of deaths, millions of people displaced, countries destroyed and 100s of billions wasted.

I reserve the right to change my mind, but I’m not worried at all.

“…but the system rallied around the Constitution”

Actually, the system did no such thing. It came down to one thing: Mike Pence refusing to give in to Trump’s demands. and nearly losing his life for it. The conspirators were not held accountable, and may in fact be part of Trump’s regime. This time he might put people at the head of the military, CIA, FBI, etc. that will protect him to the detriment of the rule of law.

So yes, the “system” held, but only by a thread. It certainly did not “rally” around the Constitution.

The Philadelphia 76ers do not make anyone tremble, Pags.

I actually can’t wait to see KAT play Embiid. One-on-one defense is not his weakness.

It came down to one thing: Mike Pence refusing to give in to Trump’s demands

Mike Pence never could have actually overturned the election.

does JD Vance have fascist tendencies and how far will he go?

These are his only tendencies. He’s an acolyte of Peter Thiel, Curtis Yarvin, and that cadre of techbro sociopath neofeudalists. He’s pulled a complete 180 on every important issue of our time in service to riding Trump’s coattails towards power.

The only thing holding him back will be his lack of a Cult of Personality like Trump has, and he has plenty of time to make it so that that’s not needed anymore.

Even that assumes there would be material elements of the military and police that would go along, and that’s a ludicrous thought in the United States.

Again, absolute nonsense. Have you seen the number of cops that go around with that stupid fucking blond punisher skull? They LOVE him.

He openly suggested a day of violence to let them crack down on his political enemies, which only fortified their support. If Trump asked them, the vast majority of this country’s police would be thrilled to do violence on his behalf.

For the military he’d just have to replace senior officers, who serve at his pleasure. The rank-and-file are just as ready to crack skulls.

I actually can’t wait to see KAT play Embiid. One-on-one defense is not his weakness.

This. A thousand times this.

JJ’s critique didn’t end there. He also addressed his decision to limit D’Angelo Russell’s minutes, leaving him on the bench for most of the second half. “It wasn’t like a punishment; I just felt like, for us to have a chance to win, that was the route we wanted to take,” Redick explained.

JJ Redick already flexing his muscles.

Just a random thought.

I started out as a liberal democrat, eventually moved to the center, eventually became a republican, came to hate both parties and became more of a libertarian and now I’m starting to move back to the center while still hating both parties.

What I’ve learned over time is that no matter where I am on the political spectrum at any time, I eventually see the problems and excesses among politicians and people in that area, learn from it, and move to where I think the country needs to be at that time.

If Trump had attempted to, let’s say, order the National Guard to arrest Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi on January 6th, he Trump would have been immediately arrested and jailed, convicted in impeachment, and tried and convicted of insurrection/treason. 95% of the country would have fully supported all of that.

If I told you on Jan 5 2021 what was about to happen on Jan 6, would have predicted that Trump would face zero political or criminal consequences and rode a wave of popular support to another term?

If not, your prediction on this hypo is highly unpersuasive.

KBA have you ever looked into the history between KAT and Embiid? I posted something about it once over the summer; there’s quite a lot. KAT hates Embiid.

The Kim Gordon record I worked on got nominated for two Grammys. I’m going to focus on that rather than the fact that Trump is probably coming for special education and teacher tenure, thus my wife’s job, thus her pension, thus our quality of life in retirement. Well, at least we’ll have Social Security to fall back on. Whoops.

Whee! Grammys!

KAT hates Embiid.

Yes! I think I spotted your posts before.

“Mike Pence never could have actually overturned the election.”

Of course not, but he could have opened the door for others to do it. The fake electors were all ready and waiting for their Republican state legislatures to approve them. All Pence had to do was to delay the proceedings long enough for him to do his ceremonial duty with whatever the States sent him.

Mike Pence never could have actually overturned the election.

That would have been for the most partisan SCOTUS in history to decide. You know, the one that tailored presidential immunity rules to suit his personal interests like a glove last term. If the current 6-3 court wouldn’t do it in his favor, the 8-1 court he’ll probably leave us with very likely would.

This sanewashing of Trump is comical at best. He is definition useful idiot, and I am way less concerned with his stupidity than I am the goons he surrounds himself with. These dudes want a Christian ethnostate; full stop.

Also Dems lost the election more than Trump won. While dealing with a genocide and trouble the Middle East you decide to trot out a fucking Cheney? With the EC in effect, all you have to do is win PA and MI with the standard blue wall states. All I can hope for is a Dem party that stops doing this “big tent” nonsense and trying to grab centrist GOP voters. It never works.

On the subject of panicking about the Knicks, it’s clear that they are trying to figure it out and I have zero concern that they won’t. Still predicting a ECF appearance.

Congrats JK47, that’s amazing news

This actually turned into a pleasant conversation about both basketball and politics once the two trolls Raven and Gold Club stopped mischaracterizing everyone’s posts. Maybe learn something, you two. You don’t really add anything acting like people who are having good faith conversations about the problems currently facing the Knicks are doomsayers.

The fake electors were all ready and waiting for their Republican state legislatures to approve them.

If the state legislatures approved them, they’d be no longer “fake.” The state legislatures are the responsible constitutional parties for sending the state’s electors to the federal government.

In terms of the broader picture, anyone who thinks Trump is guilty of insurrection on J6 (*) or otherwise also by definition should think that he’s constitutionally barred from assuming the office of the presidency — since the Constitution says that explicitly. Is that the position of Z-Man and Pags? If so, are they writing their Senators and congresspeople saying so, or otherwise advocating same?

(*) Or in even giving “aid and comfort” to those who did insurrect on J6.

“Trump is probably coming for special education and teacher tenure, thus my wife’s job, thus her pension, thus our quality of life in retirement. Well, at least we’ll have Social Security to fall back on. Whoops.”

Beyond the Generals and Trump’s own staffers throwing him under the fascist bus was ignored by so many, the one thing that blew my mind was how union members ignored Trump’s remarks to the Bond villain about how he handled his employees when they complained and still voted for him. I’ll be interested to see how union rank and file react when Trump and Musk bust their first union, or fuck with Social Security and health care in a way that negatively impacts them, their pensions, their disability payments, etc. Reagan was actually emboldened when he busted the Air Traffic Controllers union. But that was a tiny one. Let’s see what happens the next time there’s a rail strike.

Damn that’s awesome JK. Holy shit.

“In terms of the broader picture, anyone who thinks Trump is guilty of insurrection on J6 or otherwise also by definition should think that he’s constitutionally barred from assuming the office of the presidency — since the Constitution says that explicitly. Is that the position of Z-Man and Pags?”

Speaking for myself, yes.

“If so, are they writing their Senators and congresspeople saying so, or otherwise advocating same?”

It’s kind of an offensive question, but I’ll answer: No, I didn’t. Trump was not found guilty of, or even charged with, insurrection. The fact that I personally believe it to be true or that he should have been charged with it is besides the point.

Nice, JK. Congrats!

No, I didn’t. Trump was not found guilty of, or even charged with, insurrection.

That isn’t a constitutional prerequisite. The words are “insurrection or rebellion” and as to the other J6ers “giving aid and comfort” to “enemies” of the Constitution. No requirement of charge, no requirement of conviction, no limitation on enforcement by Congress or the electors’ certifiers. And of course while he wasn’t criminally charged with insurrection, he was impeached by a majority of the House for “incitement of insurrection.”

Based on the things said here today and before today, sure seems like Trump fits.

What, then, are we to make of things when, as seems almost inevitable now, he’s seated as President with little to no claim from the relevant players that he shouldn’t be? Sure seems like at the very least they don’t have the power of their so-called convictions. No, seems like the claims are more just internet battle fodder. Which again is fine and dandy in and of itself, but really doesn’t go much beyond that.

I personally don’t want an insurrectionist, rebellion-supporter, or aider and comforter of the Constitution’s enemies in office as the US president. But, hey — that’s me.

In terms of the broader picture, anyone who thinks Trump is guilty of insurrection on J6 (*) or otherwise also by definition should think that he’s constitutionally barred from assuming the office of the presidency — since the Constitution says that explicitly. Is that the position of Z-Man and Pags?

Yes, it is. I think the Colorado Supreme Court had it right and SCOTUS bowed to partisanship and political realities. Everything Republicans who aren’t true-believers do now is colored by fear, just as it was when GOP Senators looked for a minute like they might hold him accountable for Jan 6 before they realized their constituents would destroy them for it.

If so, are they writing their Senators and congresspeople saying so, or otherwise advocating same?

Is this meant to be some kind of ‘gotcha?’

For one, I live in Canada now. If I didn’t, I’d sooner piss into the wind than waste time writing to people who don’t give a single fuck about me and my broke ass. I do advocate for my views when the topic comes up, as I am doing now.

Is this meant to be some kind of ‘gotcha?’

It’s a question aimed at discerning what action you’re taking, if any, to prevent a fascist from assuming a major office for which in your eyes he’s constitutionally ineligible. (And not because he’s under 35 or not a natural born citizen or something technical, but because he engage in insurrection against the Constitution.)

And in turn, how deeply committed you are to your internet-espoused principles.

E, neither do I. Republicans in Congress had one chance to get this right and they failed by not convicting him during his impeachment trial. If they had, there’d be at least a chance that the tone of the rhetoric between the parties would be less extreme. Perhaps we’d be debating the Nikki Haley presidency in less dire terms.

But many senators who knew better feared a loss of power more than a renewed wave of Trumpism. Had those who in the moment criticized him…from McCarthy to Graham to McConnell…convinced their colleagues to put Trump in the rear view mirror as a symbolic gesture, it would have gone a long way. Instead, they doubled down on not pissing him off. And now, here we are. Seems like their lack of spine paid off. Those who stood fast like Cheney and Kinzinger have been laughed off.

Republicans in Congress had one chance to get this right and they failed by not convicting him during his impeachment trial.

I respect you and your positions, but this assertion is simply inaccurate. If it’s something that needs to be “put right,” there’s still plenty of time and ample constitutional mechanism. (And of course the flip side to that is that it might *not* be really something that needs to be “put right” in this sense, but instead just something pretty bad that falls short of internet and other bombast about how bad it really is.)

“And not because he’s under 35 or not a natural born citizen or something technical, but because he engage in insurrection against the Constitution.”

Sorry, a charge AND conviction is necessary to render him ineligible. Stop suggesting that an allegation (which is what a charge is until guilt or liability is proven) is sufficient. If the standard was less than that, he certainly would have been ineligible. You certainly are entitled to your opinion on this, even if it happens to be dead wrong.

“If it’s something that needs to be “put right,” there’s still plenty of time and ample constitutional mechanism.”

Sure there is. Must be lonely being the only one who knows that.

Sorry, a charge AND conviction is necessary to render him ineligible.

Not true. That’s never been decided and it isn’t in the constitution.

If you’re thinking about the Colorado Supreme Court case, that only said that a state couldn’t disqualify a candidate for federal office. It said nothing about Congress or other federal officials doing so.

It’s a question aimed at discerning what action you’re taking, if any, to prevent a fascist from assuming a major office for which in your eyes he’s constitutionally ineligible. (And not because he’s under 35 or not a natural born citizen or something technical, but because he engage in insurrection against the Constitution.)

And in turn, how deeply committed you are to your internet-espoused principles.

What action is available to me? Try to convince people on the internet that a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling is wrong and we need to undo the election? No one cares.

Is my view that something is wrong invalid because I lack the power to change it? Am I supposed to do my own insurrection and forget I’m not above the law the way the Grifter King is?

This is a weird tangent, but I guess it’s a way to avoid answering the substantive questions I posed to you. I assume you’re doing this because you don’t have answers.

Try to convince people on the internet that a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling is wrong and we need to undo the election? No one cares.

There’s no 9-0 case, or any case, holding that Congress (or any other relevant federal official) can’t declare a person ineligible for office under the insurrection clause.

Congress can vitiate the insurrectionist’s ineligibility by a 2/3 vote — that’s right in the constitution — but that hasn’t been done re Trump.

Sorry, a charge AND conviction is necessary to render him ineligible. Stop suggesting that an allegation (which is what a charge is until guilt or liability is proven) is sufficient.

Z-Man, my understanding is that it’s a question of fact for the courts to decide. Charge and conviction not necessary — kind of like Trump is adjudicated to have raped E. Jean Carroll, but was not criminally charged or convicted.

There’s no 9-0 case, or any case, holding that Congress (or any other relevant federal official) can’t declare a person ineligible for office under the insurrection clause.

Why does that matter when they would never do that in a thousand years? This is like smugly pointing out that there’s no league rule preventing MIL from trading us Giannis for KAT straight up.

Congress voted to acquit on the second impeachment. They’re never going to hold Trump accountable at the cost of their political fortunes. Now that SCOTUS has made criminal liability virtually impossible, we simply lack the ability to check an executive who is politically popular, or even narrowly popular with a violent, extremist base.

Complete impunity for corrupt executives is a key ingredient of — you guessed it — fascism.

Z-Man, my understanding is that it’s a question of fact for the courts to decide.

It would only get to the courts if he was declared ineligible and then sued. But first he would have to be declared ineligible. That hasn’t happened.

So basically Kamala Harris is going to wind up certifying the election of an ineligible officeholder (and “fascist”) to the presidency — the most powerful office in the world. Interesting turn of events.

So basically Kamala Harris is going to wind up certifying the election of an ineligible officeholder (and “fascist”) to the presidency — the most powerful office in the world. Interesting turn of events.

Yes, the transition of our constitutional order towards a Russian-style kleptocrat oligarchy is indeed ‘interesting.’

He’s going to do some things some people will not like (including me) and I wouldn’t want to be anyone at the FBI, CIA or in politics that crossed him with lies, but mostly he’s going to be fine.

Was this intended to be reassuring?

Now that SCOTUS has made criminal liability virtually impossible, we simply lack the ability to check an executive who is politically popular, or even narrowly popular with a violent, extremist base.

No, he could be declared ineligible for the office. Democrats control the Senate, de facto the House, and the certifying official is a Democrat.

I think a lot of very good, newly assembled teams get off to roughly 3-4 (4-3 pythag) starts and the Knicks will be very good with a TBD-but-high ceiling, but I’m glad people are at least going on the record.

E, you are being deliberately obtuse. Just because something is vague and untested doesn’t change what by far, like by a zillion miles, would be the most likely outcome of a Court ruling on the matter…and that would be ANY Supreme Court…let alone this one. Jack Smith deliberately didn’t charge him with engaging in or inciting an insurrection for that very reason…it would have been a sure loser, given the nature of his involvement. There isn’t even legal consensus as to whether the event even rose to the level of insurrection.

First of all, huge congratulations JK47! Fantastic news.

Second, so strange and delightful to be in lockstep with The Great Clown. The big difference between Trump I and Trump II is, as was pointed out, Trump didn’t have a clue and a large number in the administration actively worked to kill his worst ideas.

With Trump II there’s a clear plan (Project 2025) and they’ve made it clear that only the most loyal of loyalists will be allowed to serve in the administration. So no guardrails at all.

And as CBJ points out (thanks CBJ), it’s not Trump the Very Eldest that we need to worry about. It’s the puppeteers.

And sorry if I enraged you, Hubie.

Jack Smith deliberately didn’t charge him with engaging in or inciting an insurrection for that very reason…it would have been a sure loser, given the nature of his involvement. There isn’t even legal consensus as to whether the event even rose to the level of insurrection.

Then any talk that he did can be dispensed with as internet hyperbole and MSNBC exploitation. Valuable exercise.

Pretty sure the same thing would wind up being the end of any real discussion of “fascism,” but that seems frankly really boring and there’s a Knick game tonight that I’m monitoring tickets for.

Do they award the Larry O’B in fascist countries?

“It would only get to the courts if he was declared ineligible and then sued. But first he would have to be declared ineligible. That hasn’t happened.”

It hasn’t happened because it is as obvious as it possibly could be that he would sue and the Supreme Court would make an expedited ruling in his favor.

“Democrats control the Senate,”

Not true so long as there is a filibuster rule in place.

” …de facto the House”

Also not true

“…and the certifying official is a Democrat”

…who is by law (clarified as a result of the “confusion” in January 2021) only in a ceremonial role with no decision-making authority.

You are essentially saying “fight insurrection with insurrection.”

Then any talk that he did can be dispensed with as internet hyperbole and MSNBC exploitation. Valuable exercise.

This is just one of the many, many things that makes Trump a fascist. You trying to roll up the entire case against Trump into this is the same rhetorical trick Bill Bar used to give the right-wing propaganda machine cover to claim that Trump has been cleared of all Russian influence and backing. In fact the opposite is true — they’ve been funding media personalities to push pro-Trump propaganda, and phoned in bomb threats in blue states to help him on election day.

Of course you’re being deliberately obtuse, as is your usual tendency in argument. You know that the Democrats could not have relied on the Manchins and Sinemas of the party, and that they don’t fall in line nearly as easily as Republicans do. Recall, of course, that the GOP Senate’s line at the time was NOT that Trump was innocent, but that it was unnecessary to impeach him because the courts would hold him accountable.

Are you capable of recognizing that that was a strategic lie to enable GOP Congressmen to avoid sacrificing their own political careers to the angry MAGA base?

If it’s all just breathless MSNBC internet grousing, why do you suppose so many people in his cabinet came away with the same conclusion? Is John Kelly some kind of pinko liberal now? Mark Milley?

the Knicks will be very good with a TBD-but-high ceiling,

Totally agree with this. The first ~ 20 games seem to be about discovering What kind of (good) team this is going to be.

So far, I would argue, KAT has played as good as expected. Brunson may be figuring out how to better balance the attack after carrying all the weight himself by the end of last year.

From Thibs, I was surprised it was all Sims and no Huk last game. Maybe that changes tonight. Likewise, I thought Kolek played a lovely stretch last game. I think the Knicks went on a run with him in the floor and took the lead — but he never returned for any meaningful contribution.

Baby steps.

“Then any talk that he did can be dispensed with as internet hyperbole and MSNBC exploitation. Valuable exercise.”

No, there can be varying opinions about how an event should be interpreted that differs from what can be legally proven given the constraints of evidence, societal biases, etc. One can believe that a person was “murdered’ in Florida even if the Stand Your Ground laws would not allow for a successful prosecution of a particular case.

I strongly believe that more than enough evidence was presented during Trump’s impeachment trial in the Senate to warrant a conviction. The vote for conviction fell short. Does that mean that he factually didn’t engage in what a reasonable person would interpret to be an “insurrection?” No. Does it mean that he would not be found guilty of having violated statutes against insurrection in a criminal court? Most probably yes, but even that conviction would almost certainly be overruled by the Supreme Court.

One can reasonably have looked at all the evidence and watched the impeachment proceedings and concluded that he was guilty of insurrection without any prodding from MSNBC or indoctrination from internet conversation. Again, pretty condescending of you to think that folks are unable to think for themselves.

Great news! Congratulations JK!

with a game thread soon to follow, I guess we can all let things out a bit…

what’s in my mind is exactly when will the blitzkrieg of shock and awe begin…what will it entail…

who will be the target…

personally I would think it would be much smarter to do whatever crazy stuff (get rid of the fda, dept. of education, ftc, god knows what else, lock up opponents) as quiet as a cat…

rely on american apathy, maybe no riots for a few years…

instead though the plan calls for “shock and awe” from the beginning to put the american people on notice…they have no power now…

imagine getting a commission in another year or so and finding out you’ll be stationed at san francisco, detroit, NYC, atlanta, etc.)…

“So far, I would argue, KAT has played as good as expected”

If this is as good as we can expect, I want my money back.

If this is as good as we can expect, I want my money back.

Haha. I have it on good authority KAT is gonna put his hands up tonight 😉

Plus, he’s *only* 28

Well, clearly we didn’t get it out of our system.

Congrats JK!

Congrats, JK!

If this is as good as we can expect, I want my money back.

LOL.

If people want to get pedantic over terms like “fascist,” “insurrection,” etc. have at it.

Trump has said explicitly he wants mass deportations, purges of the civil service, across-the-board tariffs, to let Israel “finish the job” in Gaza, DOJ investigations of his political opponents, and tax cuts that don’t pencil out unless you decimate Medicaid at a bare minimum just off the top of my head.

He also, of course, tried to pressure multiple state officials to falsify election results and overturn the outcome of a free and fair election, tried to pressure state legislatures to appoint fraudulent electors to the electoral college with the same goal in mind, and when none of the worked he sat and watched as a violent mob that he cheered on ransacked the capitol.

This is to say nothing of all the insane shit he has said that isn’t explicitly policy related, like that he wouldn’t be a dictator “except for day one” and that we need “one real rough, nasty” day of police brutality to deter crime.

It’s also to say nothing of his flagrant corruption that shows no signs of abating and his rank temperamental unfitness for basically any important job.

So call him and his ilk whatever you want, I’m not super invested in the definitional debates. I am quite invested in the outcomes of the policies he pursues and the more general fallout from someone so utterly vindictive, corruptible, and reactionary holding the highest office in the land, and I’m quite worried about all of it.

There are people I don’t really like, but whose appeal I can understand. Joe Rogan, for example, has expressed a lot of views I find noxious, but I can admit he’s kind of funny and charming in his own way. But I will never, ever understand why people feel the need to defend an oafish, corrupt, sundowning, woman abuser like Donald Trump.

I am quite invested in the outcomes of the policies he pursues

We’re all quite invested in the outcomes of the policies every president pursues.

Political philosophers, politicial scientists, legal scholars and the like have debated the meaning and contours of terms like “fascist,” “insurrection” and the like for centuries. I guess whether that’s “pedantic” is an eye of the beholder thing, but the terms themselves and the discussion thereof have a long and storied history.

And sorry if I enraged you, Hubie.

Lol I am far from enraged. I am amused by what you see on the page. Our posts are a Rorschach test and you seem to see lots of angry animals in the innocuous shapes.

I have it on good authority KAT is gonna put his hands up tonight 😉

He’ll better do it!! 😉

It’s not helpful to obsess over the nuances and debate the actual J6 risk vs perceived biased risk of the transition of power come January 2029.

This is diificult to process but true. The corporate capture of our boomers Joe, Nancy, Hillary and Chuck have hurt the party since 2015. Obama made deal with Hillary in 2008, didn’t let Joe run in 2016 and they all sabotaged Bernie. If either was our nominee, Trump would have never sniffed the White House and went back to reality TV. Roe vs Wade and affirmative action would still valid. Clinton was a terrible candidate, but Harris was literally the worst, least serious, least competent, least qualified candidate in my lifetime.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

We have no one to blame but ourselves.

We are Knicks fans. I think that goes without saying.

Re: Knicks

The loss with the Hawks was annoying, I’m not happy with the team right now but I’m not worried, just a little pissed 🙂

It’s too early and with just a little more “good plays” we could have been 6-1 (we lead/were close in all the losses except Boston’s) and the general mood would have been better.

At the same time I think it’s fair to point out the many things that aren’t working without being labeled as doomsayers (barring a couple of posters who are doomsayers, but we know them well 😉 ).

All the doubts and questions about this team are legitime: the defense can never work with KAT at the 5, Thibs isn’t the right coach for this roster and so on, there are a lot of things that doesn’t “sound” right but there are clear (and relatively easy, at least for an NBA coaching staff) ways to improve them.

I’ll wait until game-20 to worry and until the deadline to panic… 😀

Great post, TFNH. E’s zealous advocacy for the proposition that Trump is only 95% fascist instead of 100% misses the point. It shouldn’t be possible for someone in that conversation to approach high political office, and the fact that it is now closer to an advantage than a detriment is a national disgrace.

Raven, it is fun to be on the side of my usual adversaries for a change. When it comes to the Knicks, I guess E and I are the MAGA nihilists trying to burn it all down.

Congrats JK!
I was surprised to see KG on that list. I’ll have to check it out. I bet Thurston is jealous af.

I will adhere to the No Politics in Game Threads suggestion.

Good post TNFH, well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I will adhere to the No Politics in Game Threads suggestion.

Me too Z-man, game and post game threads are sacred.

I will never, ever understand why people feel the need to defend an oafish, corrupt, sundowning, woman abuser like Donald Trump.

Indeed the scariest part of the Hitler comparison is not Trump himself but that his mangled, re-purposed combination of xenophobia, nostalgia, ignorant racial essentialism, and magical religious mythology has won over the majority of citizens. Just like in … (checks notes).

Overall, Trump won more votes than previously in 90% of all counties.

Das ist nicht gut.

Same-same for the game threads. No politics. Let’s crush these guys!

As someone who first voted for George McGovern, had Frank Church, Daniel Patrick Moynihan and Jacob Javitz as my political idols I can’t help but snicker under my breath that you fellas now collective nut hug Liz and Dick Cheney, Mike Pompeo (who as CIA director suborned the assassination of Julian Assange), every forever war General and the silencing of free speech by a cabal of the government, CIA/FBI/Media Giants ( the silencing of the Hunter Lap Top and the removal of a sitting President from social media platforms for example)?

And you call yourselves liberals? That’s Nadia Comaneci level mental gymnastics….

And you call yourselves liberals?

I’m a liberal. The progressive left is something quite different indeed.

“Dick Cheney”

The list of contenders is long, but arguably the biggest chickenhawk warmonger in post-WWII American history.

can we get the game thread up to mercifully get us out of whatever this conversation is…and if there is some unwritten rule that the game thread can only be unleashed x minutes before tip…just go to a bridge thread…like “pre-game thread to discuss clydes’ suit choice”…anything …please…

Bob, weren’t you cheerleading our Iraq misadventures every step of the way back then, or am I confusing you with someone else?

Like others here, I also pledge to keep my toxic negativity in the game thread strictly basketball-related.

I’m a liberal. The progressive left is something quite different indeed.

Fair enough. What is it about Trump policy wise that you find so repulsive? Didn’t like the economy pre COVID? Didn’t like choking off the Islamofacists in Qom from funding so they could finance Hamas’ invasion and murder of >1200? Didn’t like Putin respecting Trump enough not to engage in expansion like he did under Obama (Crimea) Bush (South Ossetia) and Biden (Dombass)? Didn’t like home mortgage rates 4% lower? Didn’t like consumer prices 20% less?

What is it about Trump policy wise that you find so repulsive?

My aim was more to distinguish liberals from those to whom I think your comments were addressed. Actual liberals would find, for example, the dance with the Cheneys to be kind of clueless, the longstanding dictum of any port in a storm notwithstanding.

Apparently, vigorously defending Donald Trump on the grounds that he is only mostly fascist is another thing that ‘actual liberals’ do.

Fair enough. What is it about Trump policy wise that you find so repulsive? Didn’t like the economy pre COVID? Didn’t like choking off the Islamofacists in Qom from funding so they could finance Hamas’ invasion and murder of >1200? Didn’t like Putin respecting Trump enough not to engage in expansion like he did under Obama (Crimea) Bush (South Ossetia) and Biden (Dombass)? Didn’t like home mortgage rates 4% lower? Didn’t like consumer prices 20% less?

For the life of me, I will never understand why Trump gets:
1. Full credit for the good economy he inherited from Obama towards the beginning of his term
2. Zero blame for mishandling COVID such that its economic and human impacts were terribly exacerbated (~60% more deaths per capita than Canada, whose population is no less urban than ours)
3. Full credit for the improving economy over the next year or two after Biden cleaned up his doo-doo, but before his shitty policies can take effect

You’re intelligent enough to know that it takes time for the effects of economic policy to manifest, and that on day 1 of any President’s term, his predecessor has far more influence over the state of the economy than he does.

The same logic somehow applied to Bush, where he got a pass on 9/11 even though he ignored the warnings about it, and the GFC that happened on his watch was instantly Obama’s fault upon his inauguration.

what I’ve found most amusing from this election post-mortem is how much ignorant bigoted folks hated being called ignorant or bigoted…

many of them took it personal, now they have their revenge…

Geo, for the win.

Towns doing his best Jokic

Also. Remember the no politics rule.

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