[New York Post] – Tue, 23 Jan 2024 16:39:53 GMT
- Knicks have chance at Kyle Lowry after Heat’s blockbuster Terry Rozier trade
- Terry Rozier trade BREAKDOWN Bobby Marks has the details | The Lowe Post
- Miami Heat trading for Terry Rozier while unloading Kyle Lowry is brilliant from all angles | Opinion
- What Terry Rozier-Kyle Lowry Trade Means For Lakers Deals, Looking At Donovan Mitchell, Trae Young?
- Heat acquire Hornets’ Terry Rozier for Kyle Lowry, pick
[New York Post] – Wed, 24 Jan 2024 03:05:00 GMT
- Jalen Brunson, Julius Randle propel Knicks to tight win over Nets
- KNICKS at NETS | FULL GAME HIGHLIGHTS | January 23, 2024
- Knicks 108-103 Nets (Jan 23, 2024) Game Recap
- New York fully a Knicks town once again
- Scenes from Batman Brunson and Julius Robin overcoming a brilliant Bridges performance
[Posting and Toasting] – Tue, 23 Jan 2024 12:00:00 GMT
DAngelo Russell to the Knicks, Dejounte Murray to the Lakers? Hawks hold the key
[Posting and Toasting] – Tue, 23 Jan 2024 21:00:00 GMT
- Why the Knicks interest in AJ Griffin makes sense, and why it doesnt
- Should Knicks consider low-risk trade for former Duke forward?
- Trade Rumors: Knicks Could ‘Buy Low’ On Hawks’ AJ Griffin
- Rumors: Dallas Mavericks interested in ‘buying-low’ on young Hawks forward
- Contending Teams Showing Interest in Knicks Target, Former Duke Star: Report
[New York Post] – Tue, 23 Jan 2024 21:15:00 GMT
- Knicks’ Isaiah Hartenstein expected to miss game vs. Nets with injury
- Knicks Bulletin: Update on Hartenstein, Thibs advice for Grimes, Randle on Nets
- Knicks’ provide update on Isaiah Hartenstein
- Knicks backup big men come up big in Isaiah Hartenstein’s absence
- Atlantic Notes: Hartenstein, Poeltl, Martin, Maxey
[Bleacher Report] – Tue, 23 Jan 2024 16:37:51 GMT
- NBA Trade Rumors: Knicks, Blazers Haven’t Had ‘Significant’ Malcolm Brogdon Talks
- Report: Timberwolves interested in Blazers guard Malcolm Brogdon
- Knicks insider says there’s been no ‘significant’ trade discussions for veteran guard
- Woj: Wouldn’t Rule out Blazers Trading Malcolm Brogdon at Deadline amid Lakers Rumors
- Why Knicks Not in a Rush to Trade for Malcolm Brogdon
[CBS Sports] – Tue, 23 Jan 2024 15:11:00 GMT
- The Knicks are dominating defensively, and OG Anunoby is not the only reason why
- Magic Johnson Reacts To Super Old Knicks Trade; Social Media Roasts Him
- OG Anunoby is a perfect fit with the New York Knicks
- OG Anunoby | New York Knicks Postgame Press Conference | January 20th, 2024
- Julius Randle thriving in Knicks’ improved spacing after OG Anunoby deal
[Bleacher Report] – Wed, 24 Jan 2024 05:48:45 GMT
Mikal Bridges: ‘Let’s Go Knicks’ Chants at Nets’ Arena Feel Like ‘an Away Game’
139 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.01.24)”
On January 2 after we beat the Wolves, I said this:
“So there’s 22 games until the All-Star break, which will bring us to the 55-game mark. seems like we have to go 14-8 to stay on a 48-win pace…The first ten games starting on Wednesday look like a real opportunity to go on a nice run, something like 8-2.”
And lo and behold, we actually went 8-2 in those games! Now last night’s game brought us to 9-2…meaning that to stay on that 48-win pace we would have to go 5-6 in the remaining 11 games. Seems very doable, although the stretch includes tough home game vs. DEN, MIA, INDx2, LAL, DAL and the resurgent UTA, plus a road games vs. ORL. Then right after the break we play @PHI and home vs. BOS. This might be the most critical stretch of the season, and assuming no further injuries, so much depends on a) iHart coming back as good as new, and b) whether we acquire some bench help.
Obviously we will know a lot more about how we measure up by 6:00pm on Saturday.
Much closer to 5:30 p.m. on Saturday, barring overtime.
Just as a data point, ESPN has this:
“INJURIES: Knicks: Isaiah Hartenstein: out (ankle), Mitchell Robinson: out for season (ankle).”
Pointing out “out for season.”
It’s hard to know what to make out of the conflicting Mitchell Robinson reports. I mean, it’s best to assume that he’s out for the season, but until the Knicks officially say it, I guess there’s a chance that he could return at some point. Seems like 4 months would be plenty of time for healing and recovering, but without knowing the details of the surgery, it’s just a guessing game. I guess they will have an official update around the all-star break…
Mikal’s postgame interview is one of the funniest things I’ve seen. The dude is begging to be freed. Do it Leon.
Some folks keep focusing on the things our players don’t do…
-OG doesn’t take enough shots (4 steals and a block last night)
– Hart can’t shoot from 3 ( game winning defensive play last night, one of the best rebounding guards in the NBA)
Sure they’re flawed players, but they kind of do what we need them to do in their roles. And in the meantime, we keep winning games!
I was very much one of the Mikal dreamers prior to the OG acquisition. Now, though? Pretend the Nets are actually willing to trade him to us, which they won’t be. The trade would be something like Fournier, Grimes, and all our picks and swaps for the foreseeable future. That would be locking in this roster, with Mikal sliding in at SG, and a bench unit with Hart, DDV, Deuce, and a center of some sort (depending on whether we can keep iHart). That is a very good team. I would not enjoy playing that team if I was anyone else in the Association. But is that a championship-caliber team?
Consider this our Question of the Day.
My intuition about how the Knicks handle injuries is that they don’t tend to rush players back and they wait for full healing instead. Not all teams do this. I remember Gokden State traded for someone from Portland who had been actively playing in every Portland game. But Gokden State determined he had done sort of abdominal injury (I think) and it needed more than a month of rest and non playing. So teams can differ a lot in their medical practices. Whatever Mitch’s surgery was, I can see the Knicks waiting to be sure he’s fully recovered before they play him.
I think that team would be a contender. Assuming Mitch eventually comes back and we have the IHart/Mitch center combo and assuming we could get maybe one more decent vet minimum ring chaser type player for the bench. I think they would be contenders.
I’d expect Mikal to enjoy not being the focus of the defense anymore.
I didn’t realize that Smart was 3rd in DEPM so far this year… I guess he’s not totally washed after all!
I haven’t seen any rumors about us looking into him, but he could be a serviceable backup PG despite not being the points producer we need.
I love Mikal but I don’t see him as the kind of player you trade all of your picks for.
Alan, assuming you get last year’s Mikal going forward, I think that team is a contender.
I prefer Mikal to the likes of Mitchell or KAT. Maybe even Booker? Of course you might have buyers remorse if Giannis or Embiid become available, but you can’t bet on it happening. Mikal requires so little to change with the lineup, whereas many of the other options are harder to fit.
Sadly it’s never happening.
Z-Man,
I don’t know. The narrative is that we need another “star.” But we have 2 stars already. Not every team needs a “big three.”
With Mikal you’re basically getting another OG. A long, athletic wing who is great defensively and can shoot 3’s damn well and can probably do a little more than that but isn’t quite star level scorer but could be the focal point of the offense in small doses.
I don’t know. Just imagine a “death line up” with Randle at the 5, OG at the 4, Mikal at the 3, DDV at the 2 and Brunson at PG. That team would SMOKE any other 5 man unit in the league offensively and would still be quite good defensively.
I do think that team would be a contender, which is why I advocated for it the day after the OG trade. Mikal may not quite be a #1, but he’s more than a 3-and-D wing, and at the 2 would make us the best defense in the league (which we almost are even without Mitch). Celtics would still be better, but KP is such an injury risk I’d be happy to roll the dice on it. And top 8 I think we’d be better (Mitch, Hart, DDV).
My answer to Question of the Day would be if you can get him, get him. Rationale is (1) SG is the best position for us to upgrade; (2) The only player that could be available at SG that I would take over him is Booker, (note: not Mitchell) but the chances of him being available and being traded here are very remote; (3) the next best position to upgrade would be PF by shipping Randle out, but outside of Giannis not sure the improvement to the team (and in many cases perhaps no improvement given risks eg Zion) would warrant emptying out the draft cupboard; (4) waiting for the unknown superstar who would be better is much riskier than it was even a year ago given our improvement, ie, our window is now; and (5) I have changed my mind on Joel. He is great but not the leader you want to get you a championship.
Addendum regarding Joel: the only reason he could become available is another Philly play-off flame out, which just re-enforces my point.
I’d give up a hefty sum for Mikal, maybe a couple picks, but I’m not giving up 4 picks & 4 swaps for him. He’s not on that level.
Maybe Mikal is mailing it in for the Nets, but his numbers aren’t where they need to be for that kind of package.
We won games with RJ Barrett, too. I didn’t see that stop people from focusing on things he can’t do.
Why is Josh Hart some sacred cow here? The problem isn’t just that he can’t shoot threes. It’s that he has been a negative BPM player* this year and he’s 3rd in minutes played. He also has one of the worst contracts in the entire NBA, and his extension hasn’t even kicked in yet.
Any other player, this would be talked about.
PS I have not heard one person complain about OG Anunoby. Not even E.
* and we all know how much BPM and other metrics favor rebounding, which is Hart’s forte. You have to be having a *really* bad season to be a great rebounder and have a negative BPM!
I think that team is a nightmare to play and could even make a finals if a lot of things broke right…but it’s a hair short of genuine contention. The defense would be top notch, but I think it would struggle offensively in the late stages of the playoffs. Jalen Brunson is amazing, but he’d be expected to go toe-to-toe shot creation wise with teams that have 2-3 similarly good creators largely on his own.
IMO the archetype we need to look for in a star trade is dynamite shot creator who is probably flawed in other ways. I’m confident we can cover for defensive flaws, playmaking flaws, rebounding flaws, etc. with the rest of our personnel–that’s what makes OG so valuable–but we really do need another guy who can leave defenses hopeless.
Obviously if someone more well-rounded…like Joel Embiid, hits the market you go all-in. I’m of course talking about the likely scenario in which we have to settle to some extent.
Booker and Mitchell both fit the mold.
When Randle was interviewed after a recent game he said something about when JHart’s head is right he’s a great player. I believe it. Some days JHart doesn’t seem as into the game as others. Personally, I suspect being a first time father and having twins, which is quite a lot of work, has affected his mental focus.
I’d imagine this season has reduced Mikal’s trade value, but they also might want extra to do a deal with their cross-town competitor.
I don’t want to pay that tax unless we become a championship frontrunner. If we can’t get the final piece, I’d rather save our picks for the rebuild.
I’d give up a hefty sum for Mikal, maybe a couple picks, but I’m not giving up 4 picks & 4 swaps for him. He’s not on that level
EB, I am with you on this. My wanting Mikal was not predicated on overpaying for him, but that by acquiring him we no longer have the assets to chase the superstar.
I don’t think it’s worth talking about Mikal because the Nets would want — and rightly so — a lottery pick for him (probably a top-5 pick), and we can’t offer that.
I still like the Murray fit IF he can turn his defense around. We need a big, defensive guard for teams like the Celtics, and Murray can also run the 2nd unit. Guys who can play multiple positions at a starting level are very valuable, especially to a guy like Thibs, who will only give 6 or 7 guys major minutes.
I don’t think we’d have to go “all in” to land Mikal. It would put a very serious dent into our assets and probably leave us unable to make another big move, but I think we’d have enough left over to address bench needs.
I think it would put us in the top tier in the NBA, but I’d be hard pressed to think we’d be the favorite in the eastern conference. We’d probably need for someone to get upset, have a serious injury etc.. to get to the finals. Then depending on who was there, we’d probably be a mild underdog. But that’s not such a bad position. Injuries and upsets are part of the sport and part of how some teams have won the championship.
I think the real difference is that Brunson/Randle, while very good, are not as good as some of the other 1-2 punches and Randle is certainly less proven to play at his peak under playoff pressure. We might have superior depth to some of the others (after finishing the bench), but depth tends to mean less in the playoffs than regular season.
I still like the Murray fit IF he can turn his defense around
Ess-dog, here is where we differ. While I can live with Murray, it would only be at a price of retaining the assets for a superstar trade (even if one of those assets is Murray himself). In contrast to Mikal per my previous comment.
So does getting the “bag” contract. 😉
I think the main reason is that he’s having knee issues. It’s not bad enough to keep him off the court, but I think he’s playing at less than 100% and it shows some nights.
Randle’s bad season here came right after he and his wife had their second child. Correlation is not causation, and Julius is emotionally mercurial overall. But, yes, I could see Hart being exhausted, even with all the help an NBA contract can buy. And since Hart’s game is 50% energy and 50% instincts, if he’s tired, it’s a problem.
At the same time, I have heard that he badly wants to stay in NY for the rest of his career because he wants to go into broadcasting whenever he retires. So if the organization at some point gives him a Come to Jesus lecture regarding focus and effort, he strikes me as someone who would be moved by that.
It makes some sense to me too, but I can’t get past how it has been such a dismal failure in Atlanta next to Young. The rest of that team is not as good as our supporting cast, but part of it may be that Murray is not be as good as the perceptions and we’d be overpaying.
One the plus side, if it doesn’t work we can potentially use him as part of the next big trade.
Josh Hart isn’t a sacred cow. He’s been underwhelming this year IMO. Based on his track record I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s better in the second-half (has been a career trend for whatever reason) but people talk about his limitations all the time.
Thing is, he does a lot of things that other guys on the team do not or cannot. He’s 5th on the team in TRB% behind the centers and Randle. He’s first in the team in transition frequency. He’s one of 5 players on the roster with a positive defensive EPM (Mitch, iHart, OG, and Grimes somewhat predictably being the others). I’m no friend to raw +/-, but I don’t think it’s a total coincidence that his is 3rd highest on the team (being iHart and OG) is a total coincidence–we really do need someone with these skills.
Also…
I think this is almost per se false about someone who is healthy and will likely not be in the top-100 highest paid players next year.
I love Mikal but bringing him here after importing OG, DDV, and Jart seems a bit late.
Au contraire, there’s been a fair amount of
griping about OG needing to increase his shot attempts to make up for the loss of RJ and IQ
I don’t think OG needs to increase his FGA to help the team but I’d be concerned about re-signing him this offseason if his shot attempts don’t increase. He’s been the 4th option on most nights.
I think the idea that we need someone in the Bridges mold is accurate but I don’t like the idea that we should pay a king’s ransom for Bridges specifically. Just draft the archetype as many times as you can until you get a hit.
There has been plenty of talk about how the team needs to make up for the loss of RJ and IQ. And there has been chatter that maybe we shouldn’t pay $40mm to someone who doesn’t take that many shots.
But has there really been a storm of criticism directed at OG specifically for not doubling his shot attempts now? If so, I must have missed it. The man is damn near perfect.
I think I’d prefer Dejounte at a buy-low kind of price to Mikal at full retail. Mikal is nice but I do think we need shot creation more than we need another defense-oriented player. In a vacuum Mikal is the better player but when you factor in need and cost I think Dejounte might work out better. That is, of course, if you can actually obtain Dejounte at a reasonable price.
Plus I don’t want to see the Nets drafting guys with our picks for a decade.
I think it’s hard to know what OG’s capable of when Brunson and Randle are so ball dominant. It’s not an accident that both Grimes and J-Hart have complained about touches impacting their game on offense and now we see OG somewhat limited on offense too despite RJ being out of the lineup and hoping he’d pick up most of that slack.
OG may simply not be good enough off the dribble to do much beyond playing off others and shooting 3s, occasional transition buckets, and a drive here or there where he dunks or gets fouled. But we can’t tell yet. Randle and Brunson are soaking up all the usage (which I think is not a good strategic idea long term).
If OG’s going to be a 4th option type player, that’s fine as long as he’s very efficient and a huge plus on defense (as he has been). But then we’ll need someone to become a solid 3rd option to take DDV’s place because I think he’s more of a 4th option also .
I’m fine with Donte as a 3rd option for now. He’s had a 22.5% usage and .584 TS% since the trade (it’s so convenient that I can just filter by Jan for this stuff).
He’s shooting 36.8% from 3, so it’s not due to an unsustainable hot streak like his early play, and averaging nearly 3asts in 25mpg during the same timeframe.
I do think we’re figuring out how to incorporate OG more and more—the curl/handoff play seems to work pretty well—but let him cook on defense and have other guys carry the offense.
At the end of the day the problem is our two best players are one-way guys. You need to balance that by surrounding them with good defenders. But a guy who is good enough to make up for Brundle’s defensive shortcomings and provide enough offense to be a 3rd option is an all star.
This is why the Heat have it so good and could afford to absorb Rozier much better than we could have.
I hear you.
I was talking about having a contender. I think at some point we don’t want Brunson and Randle having to score 30 a night to make up for the lack of cumulative production from OG, DDV, and whoever our very low usage C is going to be. We need someone to step up, but so far Brunson and Randle are still doing more than I think is ideal.
For Brooklyn he has at times been their primary shot creator. Last two seasons has had a usage of 30 and 26 with TS 61 and 57 respectively. You could easily play Bridges, Deuce, Hart, OG, and center du jour and dominate second units. Can you imagine trying to score against that group? Or if you want a little more juice offensively you could do Randle instead of OG.
I honestly think this team is closer than we think it is, and I am not sure that the FO has fully adjusted to the idea that Brunson might very well be a 1A star. We have accumulated all this stuff to make the “superstar” trade, but I really don’t see a real superstar coming — no chance PHX pulls the cord on Booker this offseason with Durant + Beal still playing great. Philly is playing great – zero chance of Embiid. Zero chance of Giannis after they went all-in — they’ll want to run it back at least another year.
Maybe all we need is a little creation juice for when Brunson isn’t on the floor as well as another high-end shooter and defender that can play with Brunson as well as he can play without Brunson. That basically is the exactly what Mikal Bridges is.
Guys – Brunson / Mikal / OG / Randle / MitchHart. Rest of 9-man rotation = DDV/Deuce/Hart/center. Who in the world is going to want to play against that team in the playoffs? I honestly think that team is a real contender.
mmmm, no, not BPM. Win shares and wins produced overvalued rebounding a lot, but not bpm. bpm does (over)value assists, but not rebounds. If it is a reference, Rodman topped at 2.8 bpm and was a negative bpm player for a few seasons and playoffs (including the last two rings with the bulls).
Also Bridges led the league in minutes the last 2 seasons – he has Thibs written all over him!
Brunson moved into a 3-way tie for 8th in OEPM last night (Steph & Booker are the other 2). The dude is a #1 option*.
My issue isn’t with him so much as Randle being the #2. He’s our most exploitable player, arguably on both offense and defense. And when it comes to the playoffs, these things kill teams.
If I make a trade for Mikal, I think I’d rather send out Randle than our full cache of picks. It rids of a poor defensive player without sacrifing much offense. It also frees us to pursue a 1-dimensional scorer less problematic than Randle.
Maybe Randle figures it out this post-season, but he’s difficult to trust.
*The top-5 players— Hali, Jokic, Embiid, SGA, & Luia—are well into another tier.
Alan, I think that team could be a fringe contender, but I don’t see it ever getting out of the ECF if it’s lucky enough to get there.
I also think that our main problem in building a real contender stems from having Randle as the 1B or 2A guy.
Having Brunson in tow, we see night in and night out that the difference is in the steadiness and consistency of his play. Even on off nights, you never have the impression Jalen could self-combust in the blink of an eye.
Randle, instead, embodies mercurialness in his powerful frame, so much so that even last night he could have lost us the game with the umpteenth ugly spinning turnover but right after that he won it with the fastbreak give and go dunk.
If we could send Randle away and get someone with rock solid instincts and effort who provides 85% of what Julius gives us on average *and* we could get Mikal for Grimes, Fournier and picks, well, I’d go to war with that.
Dejounte profiles as a really nice player, I do think we would have a higher ceiling with him than with Mikal. But the chemistry with the rest of the team scares me. I would rather pay more (like two picks more) for Mikal than for Dejounte.
Still, I think i would favor a smaller move for Brogdon or Bogdan. Someone who would come from the bench and help with ballhandling and spacing, and see what we have got. I like the current look of the team, and I would like to see if it is for real and just address the bench issue, rather than making a big change in the starting lineup.
Thibs has wet dreams about Bridges’s 83rd game played last year
Even without Hartenstein last night we managed to put up a solid defensive effort, coming in with a 111.0 defensive rating for the game. That is actually one of our weaker defensive performances since the OG trade.
A 111.0 defensive rating would rank second in the league. This defense is looking like it is for real, KBers.
And who profiles as 85% of Randle? Siakam has just been moved and other candidates seems like too much of a step down or not someone you can get without adding value.
lol
Why do we have a 3×3 Olympic basketball team without Kevin Knox on it?!
Oh don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying there’s a specific candidate. I’m saying that Julius hard caps our team building exercise.
I’d rather pay more for Mikal in a vacuum, but paying 1 pick for Dejounte keeps the superstar dream alive, or even a lesser star if the clock ticks a bit too far (like Mikal!) and paying multiple picks for Bridges makes it difficult.
If you do grab Mikal, you’d have to structure it as our 2 picks this year—leaves us a full cadre of our own picks after the upcoming draft—plus MIL & the “fugazi” picks. If that plus Grimes & Fournier gets it done, bring in the last of the Nova mob!
Most of those picks have pretty limited upside though, and we might not have the ammo for Spida or his ilk.
This is incorrect. He gets enormous extra credit for offensive rebounds, especially considering his positionalal coefficient is somewhere between 2.0 & 3.0.
after reading through everyone’s posts – i’d go with paying the fare for mikal…
it would solidify the starting five and help with the bench (moving DDV to the bench)…
as is now – i think our season (as well as the players on the roster) will/need to be judged based on the post season…we’re at that stage of team development now…
anyone think there is any chance we can acquire donovan mitchell as a free agent?
if that is possible after the season – find a bench piece this season, and wait to see what happens with donovan…
I don’t know, browsing bkref I see quite a few PG and SG with higher offensive rebounding than him, and except Scottie Barnes, I don’t see high bpms, and there are quite a few negative ones.
I will look at the formula, but if anything, bpm undervalues rebounds, even for PGs. Another example, great rebounding PGs like Kidd can’t touch the bpm of a bad rebounder like Stockton.
The x-factor being missed is that the Knicks on the year are 7 DRTG points better with him on the court vs off the court. The numbers misjudging defense isn’t a new phenomenon.
BPM isn’t great at judging defense. Although EPM is better, it’s not perfect. Hart, apparently, is still playing elite defense despite the absence of other numbers proving it.
Thibs closes with Hart over Donte because his defense more than makes up for Donte’s offense, especially when we go into true iso Brunson mode down the stretch.
It just makes no sense for the Nets to trade Bridges when they don’t own their picks for this year and next year. They’re going to keep him and keep trying to tread water to keep fans in the arena and hope for the best. They have zero incentive to tank. Grimes, who is our best asset remaining, also doesn’t make any sense for them as if they do trade Mikal, Cam Thomas is likely to stay and he plays the same position. I just don’t think it’s ever happening.
Has anyone mentioned D’Lo as part of a 3 team trade?
The Lakers are looking for an upgrade but perhaps the trading partner doesn’t want D’Lo. We can offer an expiring deal plus a pick to route back to the other team, the Lakers could get their upgrade, and we would get our backup PG/scorer that can step into the starting lineup if need be.
He’d have to live with being the backup PG, but he would fit our criteria fairly well. Not sure what it would take to pry him away as part of a deal.
I think we split next two and finish the week 10 games above .500
If I was to to build a team to compete against and beat Boston over few years, I’d start with OG and Mikal to neutralize their top weapons. Mikal is not just a last piece of a perfect fit for NY but he’s just what we need to beat #1 opponent too. Keep Grimes, send Fournier and 5 picks/4 swaps but take back a few 2nds, – so that roster spots 9-15 are built out with vets and 2nd round picks.
You mean the fans that are actually knicks fans lol?
They’d get picks for this year and next if they traded him to us.
I don’t like it, and I’m pretty sure Thibs wouldn’t, either.
The Brunson & Randle window has 2-3 years, including this one. If you can get Bridges for Grimes and 4 picks, and if Bridges can play the 2, I think you have to do it.
Thibs: “To the dungeon you go”.
Change the name to ‘Lo because he plays no D. 😉
Bobby Marks seems to think:
1) Murray can be had for Fournier, Grimes, and a lottery protected 2025 first
2) Gary Trent Jr. can be had for Fournier and 3 2nds
3) Brogdon can be had for Fournier and our lottery protected 2024 first
Those prices seems sensible to me, though I don’t have any interest in GTJ. I would definitely make that Murray trade if that’s really all it took (I’m skeptical on that front). I’d be worried about our shooting with Murray replacing Grimes on the roster and presumably booting DDV from the starting lineup but the talent upgrade would likely be worth it, plus we could still try to use minor assets to bolster the shooting e.g. trade for Alecto Brooks.
If we can really get D’Lo basically for free as a third-team, we should. Throw out his reputation, which seems to be sullied by people finding him annoying as a person, and look at his numbers this year. He’d objectively be a very good 6th man.
The other day I mentioned this possibility:
NYK gets: D’Lo, AJ Griffin
ATL gets: Fournier, Grimes, 2029 1st from LAL
LAL gets: Dejounte Murray
I was thinking the same thing but they dont have their own pick until 2029. That’s way too long to try to thread water.
They’re going to have to rebuilt via other people’s picks and free agency. Make a trade and draft well…and get lucky with a free agent. I say we give them all the picks but keep Grimes and get back 4-5 2RPs
2024 – NYK – Unprotected
2024 – NYK via Dallas
2025 – Suns Unprotected
2025 – Own (Houston can swap)
2025- NYK Swap rights
2025 – NYK via Detroit (protected)
2025 – NYK via Milwakee(protected)
2025 – NYK via Washngton (protected)
2026 – NYK – swap rights
2027 – Own – Houston can swap
2027 – NYK – unprotected
2027- Suns – Unprotected
2027 – Philly unprotected
2027 – Mavs unprotected
2028 – Suns – swap rights
2028 – NYK – swap rights
2029 – Suns unprotected
2029 – Mavs unprotected
2029 – Own pick
You give the keys to Cam & Cam LLP, Lonnie Walker, hire Kenny Atkinson or another offensive minded coach and let the youth play…get under a cap big time and try to find your Brunson. This is the only road Brooklyn has…it’s stupid to continue to lose with Mikal, Finney-Smith and Dinwiddie types until 2029
ha Strat, I did remember it – but thought it was you 😝
turns out it was noble…
i think D’lo would be fine, help out a bunch with the bench…
tell me it is a pipe dream – i think there’s a chance we could get donovan “cheap” – no assets out in the off-season…
that may be a fantasy though due to roster contract stuff…
basically- if we can’t upgrade the 2 spot right now, find a “discount” role player for the bench…
if need be, hopefully we can flip them after the season…
hard to imagine us letting fournier go free though…
Instead of trading the farm for Bridges, I’d be somewhat inclined to one-stop-shop at Portland and pick up Brogdon and Grant.
Mikal Bridges is 6’6”, 209 lbs.
Jeremi Grant is 6’7”, 210 lbs.
And one of these guys is a PF and the other is a SG?? I think we’re just struggling with positions these days.
DJM at Marks’s suggested price point would be highway robbery. Would be nice if Leon actually won a trade negotiation sometime.
and then when he builds that team up into an exciting young playoff team, you trade away the young players and fire him for 45 year old Kevin Durant!
DLo would be great if he’s basically a salary sacrifice. He’s going to be playing with Deuce, Hart, OG, & Achiuwa on the 2nd unit with the possibility that Mitch returns for the playoffs. We can hide him like we do Brunson.
DLo is exactly what we need if we can grab him for two 2nds or something. He expires next year assuming he exercises his player option.
someone(s) keep bringing it up during the games – precious is not a five…nope…
i don’t have a lot of faith in sims being competitive with some of the good centers in the league…
julius playing the five is like an emergency situation…
not so emotionally attached to quentin…losing quik pulled that bandaid off…
we still have a couple of months before the playoffs to have deuce, quentin and precious show if they have a role…
i am rooting for deuce pretty hard, he has a great personality…i like his shooting form too…
If Mitch comes back, Achiuwa is fine as a stopgap. His defense is good enough even though he’s not a rim protector the way Hartenstein & Mitch are. No point in spending resources acquiring another C.
Btw, Achiuwa strikes me as a player worth 20% of Mitch’s salary.
okay then EB, any guess at a percentage chance mitch returns…
truth is, none of us know…
what we really need is a KB’r in his neighborhood to see if he’s up and about at all…
hmmmm, maybe lurk his social media stuff…
Trent is struggling this year and is an impending FA. Nice player, not sure he’s what we need. He’s Grimes with slightly better offense but worse defense.
No idea, but presumably the FO has an understandong of the timeline.
Even if it’s 50/50, the price would need to be very low. At that point you might as well keep running Precious out there.
that’s what i was wondering…if there was only a fifty/fifty chance of his return – i would find help, let precious share time with julius and josh at the four…
ha, he’ll never see the court 🙃
any idea EB how far down the line in the season we can punt on a roster addition…
doesn’t have to be the trade deadline, maybe a buyout?
now that we are a contender and all, shouldn’t we get some of them old vet guys running loose at the end of the season…
I know our front office is not really trying to move Randle but I think Randle being the centerpiece for a Bridges trade makes the most sense. It would actually improve both teams right now and probably lower the picks we would have to send significantly. Do something like Randle + our best pick this year for Bridges and Walker IV.
We move OG to the 4 and our rotation is:
Brunson – McBride
DDV – Walker IV
Bridges – Grimes
OG – Hart
IHart – Precious
It also balances our Brooklyn’s rotation and helps with their size issues:
Claxton – Sharpe
Randle – Watford
Johnson – O’Neale
Finney-Smith – Thomas
Dinwiddie – Smith Jr.
As a fallback, I also like the idea of taking on D’Lo’s contract as long as it doesn’t cost Grimes.
Facts. Rince. Repeat. Clearly, the best odds of success.
If Brogdon is available for that price, I’m very fine with that. I also really like the DLo idea, we have more than enough defenders to put around him (and he was even surprisingly decent on defense at Minnesota when they had good defensive lineups around him).
I think the US are trying to give the other nations a chance, with Knox it’d be an automatic gold. 😀
The Knicks are not trading Randle this year unless it’s for a top 5 player. Trading him for Bridges will create a huge hole at the 4 and make the team worse.
Possible Cs in the trade market:
Jock Landale played well last season but has struggled after an ankle injury in the offseason. I’d kick the tires on him for a small sum, see if he can get it together as he gets further away from the injury.
His deal is non-guaranteed for each of the 3yrs following this one, so it gives us a versatile contract even if it doesn’t work out this year.
Maybe Nick Richards is something if you get him away from the Charlotte dumpster fire.
I don’t see Chicago moving Drummond for cheap, which is probably the correct move.
If nothing better is available for the Fournier contract maybe we can flip him and a 2nd for Capela. AJ Griffin & Grimes might get stuffed in the deal too somehow.
WAS might make Gafford available, doubt he comes cheap. Would he be worth returning WAS’s protected pick to them? I’d say no, even though it’s almost guaranteed to be two 2nds at this point.
Giannis is not a Top5 player!? 😮
Wow, Ben R. Randle for Bridges is so interesting my head is exploding trying to figure out whether I like it or not.
Randle is perfect for Brooklyn, a team that isn’t a contender but doesn’t have their own picks. He’ll raise their floor, sell tickets, etc.
I agree with darules, though, that it would have to be in the offseason when we can address the hole at the four. It would also help to have another year of playoff Randle data to help with the decision (a bad playoffs likely wouldn’t scare BK, as they’re just looking to avoid the bottom).
I don’t think trading Randle creates that big of a hole. OG is a perfectly capable 4 and honestly with both Mitch, once he is back, and IHart we don’t really need his size. His lack of spacing, hero-ball tendencies, and spotty defense will always be a problem. For a team that needs his size and physicalness his downsides are worth it but we have plenty of size and are very physical even without him.
I think if we got a different player like Bridges who provided more spacing, more defense, and more ball-movement while not losing any scoring or durability it would more than make up for the loss in rebounding and physical play.
It would also help Hart since he does not fit well next to Randle.
Also, I don’t think we should trade for help at the 5, unless it costs us nothing. Mitch will be back next year and Precious, Sims, and a savvy waiver wire pick up should fill the void till then.
Not on offense. He’s not top-5 in OEPM or OBPM, but he’s 7th in both.
Also, he’s 4th in overall EPM & 6th in BPM.
And like I mentioned earlier, you’ve got Jeremi Grant on the market and he can fill Randle’s shoes.
Brunson, Bridges, OG, Grant, iHart; with Brogdon, DDV, and Hustlebunny off the bench…
If I were playing NBA 2K24 I would definitely do it. I just think there are too many actual living people involved to pull it off.
For all his faults, i’d like to go to war with Randle at least one more time (2024 NBA playoffs).
There’s reports saying he wants to come here, so there’s a chance, yeah. But i don’t think it’ll be easy because we don’t have cap space. Meaning it’d have to be a sign and trade. We’d have to get the Cavs to agree to the trade. And we’d have to match salaries, so probably it wouldn’t leave us with much more than Brunson, Donovan, OG, Randle and Mich/iHart. But that’s a great starting 5, so maybe Leon goes for it.
In his last 30 games dating back to Thanksgiving, Julius Randle has a TS% of .610 on 29.1% usage. During that span, only Embiid, SGA and Giannis have higher TS% at that usage or above. Brunson is at 60.6% at 28.7% usage. If you dip down in usage, the following names with higher TS%s come up:
KD 63.8 27.9
Jokic 66.6 27.6
Sexton 63.5 27.3
AD 63.0 27.1
KAT 65.8 26.9
Zion 64.5 26.6
Kawhi 65.4 25.4
The point is, since Randle got his ankle back under him, he’s been one of the most efficient high-volume scorers in the NBA. Only Collin Sexton (who plays 10 fewer mpg) and Brunson (by a hair) make less money.
I’d be very leery about trading him for anything less than a bonafide superstar, especially if additional assets are involved.
I’m kind of amazed how little people appreciate Randle. “Empty calories,” “can’t accept second banana,” “makes dumb mistakes every game” – OK, the last one is true, but that’s the reason I think people don’t understand how freaking good he is. Yes, he loafs on D sometimes. Yes, he is guaranteed to make at least 3 bonehead posts every game. But overall he’s a straight up beast who can play up to 90% of Giannis at 60% of the cost. Would I trade him for Giannis? In a New York minute. Do I worry he’s as likely to turn it over in crunch time as make a fallaway 3? Absolutely. Would I trade him for anyone but an elite player at any position? Hell nah. We have Brunson for end of game brilliance. But Julius is a big reason end of game matters.
Yeah, this is why I like Mikal as a target. It requires very little to change with the other four starters, and doesn’t create q hole in the way other, higher salary players likely will for the trade to work.
You could have a starting 5 where all players are in the high 50s in shooting efficiency, with three defensive studs.
Candace Parker is having a rough day, she should probably stay off social media for a few days lol
“Wow, Ben R. Randle for Bridges is so interesting my head is exploding trying to figure out whether I like it or not.”
I would trade Ben R. Randle for pretty much anyone. Except Kyrie.
you do have a sense of humor doogie 🙂
In response to a post where Mikal Bridges expressed his feelings about playing for the Nets and feeling like they were the visiting team.
Not quite tampering, but sure to get some laughs from Knicks fans.
The problem with Randle is that for everything he does well (which is plenty), those really bad TOs, possessions he takes off on defense and occasional meltdowns subtract quite a bit from the plus side. He throws away points almost every game. It’s hard to to add back enough value from a couple of extra rebounds and above average efficiency to make up for the really costly plays. His plus attributes are good enough to make him a net plus player, but imo the net of all of it is not as good as a casual look at points, rebounds, assists and TS% suggest. Now if he could fix those things (and they are fixable), he would be one of the best players in the NBA.
I like to create q hole. And then rince and repeat.
Rama, Randle could drop an efficient 40, grab 15 boards and dish out 8 assists agains the Celtics in a game we win and someone would still comment about a “boneheaded” play he made. It’s ridiculous. Brunson takes bad shots and complains to the refs too but you don’t see anyone pointing it out.
Come on, rama. We’re talking about trading him for Mikal Bridges. That hardly constitutes a lack of appreciation.
Randle is awesome but he’s not the type of player you can expect to maintain his peak into his 30’s. Bridges is two years younger and he’s a force on both ends. It’s definitely worth considering and not even slightly disrespectful to Julius.
I do, but I usually complain that he dribbles too much and makes up his mind he’s going to shoot before even trying to develop something that could create an even better option for someone else. I guess he spent too much time playing with Luka. 😉
Or even Luia.
Disrespectful may not be the word, but foolish works. It is reminiscent of the usage arguments of days gone by – days when I erred on the side of WoW and other flawed metrics. Being able to create is more valuable than everything else Mikal brings to the table: better D, better from 3, less prone to dumb mistakes (which I assume but don’t actually know, as I am above hate-watching Nets games). You can’t swap them and expect good results. Randle could be a #1 on a winning team, as he was when there was almost nothing around him. Bridges apparently cannot. More importantly, on a winning team, Randle draws double teams consistently, which changes the game for everyone else. It’s partly why this lineup is now working: both Randle and Brunson bend the D to them, creating opportunities for others. DdV is taking advantage, and so is OG, whose own ability to create is limited. Bridges is a huge step forward from Grimes or DDV, but he’s not capable of doing what Randle does.
It’s easy to forget, because Julius does so many dumb things on the court that are just infuriating. But he’s really, really good – closer to Giannis than to Bridges.
Bridges is clearly more adaptable, but now that we have a bona fide 3 and D wing that should be less of a priority. Our biggest need is shot creation, and swapping Randle for Bridges would arguably just exacerbate that need without clearly addressing a different need other than “some people just don’t like Julius Randle.”
Randle has bested Bridges in EPM 3 of the last 4 seasons (will be ignoring monologues about the flaws of AIOs, everyone’s aware) so the idea of trading him with assets for Bridges seems like bad asset management. I understand Bridges will always have higher trade value regardless because of his adaptability, but the question is what does his adaptability do for us? Again, we have a bona fide 3 and D, fits-into-any-lineup wing now. Of course we could use another, but we now have the luxury of deciding whether the next one is actually a talent upgrade for us.
There might be no Knickerblogger shtick that has ever resonated with me less on a purely visceral level Strat’s anti-Brunson thing. We all know the numbers say it’s bunk, but I find it even more unrelatable from the damn eye-test perspective. I want that dude taking all the shots!
For those of you engaging in a usage based promulgation I have a question for you: Randle for Sabonis straight up? Because Sabonis has a .700 TS% in January thus far, while averaging 22 pts, 13 rebs, and 9 assists. That’s better than “good Randle”, but at <8% usage. So is that more valuable of a player or less valuable?
Sabonis is 6th in rebounding rate and 9th in assist rate (the only non Jokic big in the top 10). It’s not just the shooting, he’s been elite across the board. It’s no slight on Randle.
I love Jock. Let’s get Jock.
One of my spies tells me JB is sitting with Mikal at the St. Johns/Nova game tonight
Donnie, I’m not a Randle-stan; I am not averse to trading him. But it would need to make sense; Bridges doesn’t. Both Sabonis and Siakam seem pretty similar to me, and if Randle were traded straight up for either I wouldn’t think it bad value. It wouldn’t make sense from a team perspective – these are people, and how everyone gets along on the team is important – but Siakam is a bit worse, Sabonis maybe a bit better. Randle may be the better creator, but Sabonis is better from outside (on lower volume). Randle better on the boards, Sabonis better facilitator. They are fairly close over the years in most respects. I don’t know if Sabonis is as prone to brain farts… But overall, pretty close value.
Owen, what on earth do you like about Jock Landale. I mean, he has a cool name and probably an equally cool Aussie accent, but what do you like about him as a basketball player? I don’t see any redeeming qualities except for maybe that he’s 6’11” and plays center. We can do much better.
Reports about the Hornets potentially trading or buying out Gordon Hayward… maybe he has something left in the tank? Definitely feels like a guy the Heat would pick up and would hit a big 3 against us in a playoff game.
Heat down 14 at home entering the 4th quarter to Memphis…
just tuned in to the heat/grizz…they’re playing in miami and the place is pretty empty…
Memphis with a ton of boneheaded turnovers let the Heat back in the game.
Meanwhile, Doncic is killing the Suns.
Grizzlies just find players
Vince Williams JR looks like a solid piece
Rozier brought his Charlotte mojo to the Heat culture.
Cavs about to lose, so a good night for the Knicks (even if I still have hopes they can catch the Bucks). 3 games ahead of Miami, technically tied to Cleveland.
And with Cleveland, too.
Some of these trade discussions remind me of the Ginger vs. Mary Ann debates from my childhood…
What a shot by Jerami!
Mary Ann by a mile. The girl-next-door types are always something else behind closed doors.
In an OAKAAK pitcher’s duel for the ages, Kevin Knox II outlasted Frank Ntilikina…
What? Give me Ginger! Mary Ann’s are a dime a dozen.
Miami and Cleveland lost, that’s nice
Just a three hour tour……….. a three hour tour….
I like our chances tomorrow night, DEN is on the last game of a tough road trip and might be a bit road-weary…
It’s interesting….the only other teams in the league with the biggest disparity in home vs away…with home being lower…are the three west cellar dwellers…we should take advantage….
hi pepper, how did the move go?
i am no fan of those spurs uniforms…
just had the house shake and rattle from a 4.2 quake about a mile or so from the house (i’m real close to the san andreas fault line)…
been out in california for quite a while now, those earthquakes are still a little freaky…
Hey geo…move went well…no real hiccups…actually back in the bay area now….came up to check on the renovations to my house …getting ready to sell it…flying back to AZ tomorrow…in a rental property in Scottsdale…strange being in the desert after looking out at the ocean from my window for the last 15 yrs…
the heat and dry air out there will do you well…preserve you for at least another good 50 years or so 😊
From your lips to God’s ears…
One thing that really cements my questioning of Randle is how Barrett has been absolutely flourishing in an offense not crushed by the space Randle takes up. That makes me wonder how much Randle’s ball dominance and lack of space hurts other players.
Combine that with his inconsistent defense and I think he is the place we need to upgrade to take the next step. Everyone else on the starting lineup seems perfect for their role.
if only we had traded julius instead of RJ…my goodness, what a blunder ben…
too much of the eye test can make you go blind…
raptors last 10: 2 – 8
knicks: 8 – 2
julius was the first one in for this current team…without him dragging the knicks to .500, and a little better team (along with a big assist from a maniacal coach) – maybe jalen doesn’t even come to the knicks…
my hope is julius earns another contract/extension with us, has a solid post season…put him at around 35 million a year along with OG and jalen at some point and lock those three in for another five seasons…
we have five solid starters…all great statistical value on their contracts…and they actually seem to enjoy playing with one another…continuity does have a cost though…especially if the players get better…
3 of the starters are among the top 10 at their position this season…who knows if isaiah can sustain this level of play…donte is actually not too far out from top 10 as a starting shooting guard…
who knows, maybe josh hart gets some rest over the all-star game break, precious grows 2 inches and gains 20 pounds, deuce learns how to get someone any easy shot…
deuce got the: i’m going to control the ball and try to score now mindset okay…it’s just he has zero gravity affect at the moment…
843rd Bomb Wing Strategic Air Command: Peace is our Profession
it’s good to remind yourself every so often about the danger of fluoridation…