[www.postingandtoasting.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 6:07:38 PM
Walt “Clyde” Frazier honored with the Curt Gowdy Award from the Basketball Hall of Fame Posting and Toasting
[heavy.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 5:26:20 PM
Sixers Star Tyrese Maxey Earns Comparison to Immanuel Quickley Heavy.com
[dailyknicks.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 5:00:00 PM
This Julius Randle trade is by far Knicks’ best option Daily Knicks
[nbaanalysis.net] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 4:19:24 PM
NBA Rumors: This Knicks-Mavs Trade Features Cam Reddish NBA Analysis Network
[fadeawayworld.net] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 1:26:34 PM
The New York Knicks Remain The Most Valuable NBA Team, Golden State Warriors Are 2nd, Los Angeles Lakers 3rd Fadeaway World
[www.basketballinsiders.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 12:17:24 PM
Knicks most valuable NBA team, worth $5.8 billion in 2022 Basketball Insiders
[empiresportsmedia.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 11:04:55 AM
Charles Barkley credits Knicks for passing up on Mitchell Donovan deal Empire Sports MediaCharles Barkley reveals ‘inside information’ from Knicks exec on why they didn’t trade for Donovan Mitchell CBS SportsCharles Barkley Offers ‘Inside Information’ on Knicks’ Donovan Mitchell Trade Sports IllustratedKnicks’ William Wesley: Jazz Tried to ‘Rip Somebody off’ in Donovan Mitchell Trade Bleacher ReportKnicks exec told Charles Barkley how Donovan Mitchell trade fell apart New York Post View Full Coverage on Google News
[dailyknicks.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 10:00:00 AM
Bleacher Report lazily labels Julius Randle as most “overrated” Daily Knicks
[sircharlesincharge.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 9:54:00 AM
NBA Trade Rumors: Knicks, Mavs interested in Bojan Bogdanovic? Sir Charles in Charge
[www.si.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 9:20:00 AM
Knicks’ R.J. Barrett NBA’s Top Breakout Candidate for 2022-23? Sports Illustrated
[dailyknicks.com] — Saturday, September 10, 2022 8:00:00 AM
3 reasons the Knicks should trade for Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Daily Knicks
62 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.09.11)”
If we assume Bogs is a fairly hot commodity, then maybe after he’s traded the market for Fournier will open up. I’m not sure what we’d be looking to add though other than a more legit sized (maybe 6’8”) SF that can shoot.
There will likely be no market for Evan Fournier until next year due to his contract.
We really do need to be patient with this vet situation. We got ourselves into a bind and it will not be easy to unwind. We’ll have to stick with these guys until their contracts make them easier to move.
Fournier and Rose are the only guys I consider “vets”.
Rose is fine for one year as a backup.
I’d have no big issue with Fournier for a couple of years either, but we have a bit of a glut at the SG position. IMO what we really need is a longer athletic 6’ 8” SF. Then we can slide RJ back to SG. IMO that’s why they were interested in Cam to begin with.
The problem with Randle is not his age. He’s going to be productive for the duration of his contract. The problem is fit, attitude, and Obi looking productive enough to want to see what he can do with more minutes.
If Mitch is the C and you have players like RJ and Brunson who you want penetrating and going to the basket, IMO you need a stretch PF. Randle is not that player (Obi may not be either). It all might work better with Hart at C because he’s more versatile than Mitch.
I’m more of less “good” with our players, imo they still just don’t fit together right.
As a vet, Fournier worries me the least. His temperament suggests he would be fine playing with the second unit, if nec. I’m more curious about how to get Obi real minutes and how Grimes and IQ are going to split time. We value all three of those guys highly. I’m not sure Thibs does as much.
EDIT: in fact Hart (if he can really shoot and pass) is the wild card in all this. I hope he plays as we wish and for long rotations.
Call me crazy..but if we didn’t already have D Rose, I’d be ok with that suggested Randle/Fournier trade for Brodie. I know how much of an eyesore Brodie can be, but we could go with a rotation that promotes a 5 out lineup that actually helps Westbrook on that 2nd unit. And let me be clear- he’d absolutely have to lead the 2nd unit:
C- Mitch, Hartenstein
PF- Obi, Cam, Sims
SF- RJ, Cam
SG- Grimes, Quickley (you can even switch them and it works with Obi and Quickley’s chemistry)
PG- Brunson, Bodie
Now that I think about it, in that scenario- I’d start Quickley because Grimes doesn’t need the ball to be effective and that helps Brodie shine.
I’m not sayin do it..just that there’s a way it could work. It’s not the best idea though, because then we’d have to move Rose who fits with this team much better. And Brodie would never accept the role I suggested because he, much like Randle- judges his role on the team by who he thinks he’s better than rather than seeing how a role adjustment can actually help his team.
Brodie?
Here’s a rather fair assessment of RJ Barrett from realgm.com (I wonder if the KB news bot can be tweaked so that it picks up realgm stuff, it’s usually excellent)
https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/268576/Were-Still-Waiting-To-See-Who-RJ-Barrett-Is-Going-To-Be
Here’s a nugget for optimists:
“However, after the All-Star break, only five players had a greater free throw rate than Barrett on at least the same usage: Joel Embiid, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Trae Young, Kristaps Porzingis and Brandon Ingram. Being able to create scoring chances like this, as a player who wasn’t even 22 years old until after the season, is something of real value. Barrett has the skill foundation to become a special sort of player, a true shot creator. It doesn’t always look great to be a young player who can “create his own shot” with mostly poor percentages to show for it, but sometimes, the percentages can mask a path towards something that works. He wouldn’t be the first young scoring off-guard to beat the empty-calorie accusations, especially if we go back to the DeRozan comparison.”
I’m establishing a new team this year: Team Reasonable Optimist.
Here’s how you join:
Step 1 – Radical Acceptance
– we will not finish high in the lottery
– we will not trade Julius Randle or Evan Fournier
– Obi, IQ, and Grimes will not play as many minutes as we want them to.
And that’s all ok. Because…
– we can trade Derrick Rose this year or just waive him after the season.
– we can trade Evan Fournier next year or just waive him after the season.
– they’re both decent players and will likely contribute to winning.
These kids will get their opportunity eventually. And by not playing them, we’ll have the opportunity to sign them to second contracts they can outperform.
Step 2 – Bet the over
We lack the high end talent to succeed in the playoffs. But we have the depth, the discipline, and the defense to grind out a very good regular season.
Step 3 – Look ahead
Our situation will improve this time next year simply by one year ticking all the contracts. And we have two picks in the draft which – god willing – Leon might actually use.
Step 4 – Ignore the elephant in the room
I have no idea how to handle the Randle situation. God willing, it will be more clear next year.
TROptimist. Love it. Haha.
And I’ve lost track of Swift with all the name changes, but the Swifty Optimist Express is a good train, too.
re: Fournier, as market-rate vets go, he’s the kind you can live with. The dude can shoot the lights out from 3 and is a career 50% from 2 (had a bad year from 2 last year, nearly 40 points below his prior career average, anyone seeing a pattern? His FTr was also at a career low, something to do with our offense?) He’s also clutch and a seems to be great teammate.
I get all the “he’s getting in the way of RJ, Grimes and IQ stuff, and that he’s pretty bad on D, but he’s a valuable player who can help those guys develop too. I ha e no problem keeping him and playing him 20-25 mpg until the right deal comes along. I would be totally against salary-dumping him. He’s too good for that.
lol I’m already wondering how Hubie is going to insist that he was right all along when the team finishes with 36 wins….
I still think something is going to go down before training camp starts. Maybe something small like dumping Cam, or maybe something big like a trade with the Lakers involving Russ. But somthing.
So until then, it’s hard to determine what to think about this team going into the season. Considering that there’s no high-end talent to add out there (caveat: we trade Randle and Rose for Russ and he accepts the 20mpg off the bench role that I think he could be awesome in) there is probably a 45-win hard ceiling and 35-win hard floor. Some of the previously tanking teams like ORL, HOU, DET and OKC might have improved enough beat us a few times, and while UTA, SAS, CHA and IND are all taking a step back, we are no locks to beat them either. But by and large, although we’ve improved, so have a lot of teams. ATL added DeJounte. BOS added Brogdan. Philly added PJ and have a healthy motivated Harden. The Nets are looking really good.
I think 39.5 is an excellent O/U number and wouldn’t feel real confident on either side.
We’re good!
Let’s go knicks!
and let’s go Greece in EuroBasket in 4hrs vs Satoransky and his Czechs
Step 5 – give zero fucks about being right on the internet.
E4 gonna bring it this season. RJ should speak French, no? He’s Canadian 😉
https://twitter.com/LetsTalkKnicks_/status/1568721287333167105?s=20&t=kO525rvw41DMH0P8BLIlGA
ESPN plus had the France/Turkey game on…
now I remember why evian can be such a pain to watch at times – that dude is so crazy passive…
he did make some nice passes though…but, zero energy on defense to get over a screen, and, rarely moves enough on offense to get himself open…
yeah, evian can be a frustrating player…
“Step 5 – give zero fucks about being right on the internet.”
That explains a lot, thanks!
Z–man, thanks for that link; that was a good read.
Yeah, I’d prefer RealGM in the news rather than, say, NBA Analysis Network.
Oh, and let’s go Jets. I’m feeling a mixture of excitement and dread as the Jets season is about to start…
The Knicks, according to a source that seemed solid, have beaten the Vegas over only three times since at least 2012 — ’13, ’16, and ’21. I’m sure we’re not alone, but the Knicks’ fanbase tends to systematically overrate the team’s true place in the association cosmos.
I don’t seen any reason to think that the 38.5 number is some kind of easy target. The Vegas casinos aren’t in the business of giving away money.
hi cyber, wow, what a blessing to have access to uninterrupted nature…that sounds absolutely magical… any creatures in the local area that interest you? i had that in monterey, what a dream, i could get lost in the woods, or easily make it to the beach without seeing nothing but swans, pelicans and seagulls… ma’s next to a preserve…you could never tell it by standing in the driveway, but there’s a waterfall about three miles away, bit of an incline…snakes, coyotes, bobcats…there’s other stuff up there around the mountain runoff water…
there’s some nice walks around here, some goats and sheep not too far away…more and more the orchids are disappearing, but within a couple of blocks there’s orange, grapefruit and lemon trees along the road… now that i think of it, there’s a good sized avocado tree across the street…
6 to 8 miles with some up an down is quite the workout, that’s nice…you pack a lunch 🙂
Jeez, E. I said the bet the over, not bet your house on the over.
my two last concerts before the pandemic really opened my eyes (and ears), saw jerry cantrell at the pico union project and then tool at san diego state arena, i think it was san diego state, the sound and visuals were excellent…
there’ve been some hits and misses this year, really glad i saw badu and costello perform…
the lineup the second half of the year includes: dead sara, jenny and the mexicats, cyprus hill, also appearing: fishbone, n8noface and everlast – yes, i will 100% be grooving to his new arrangement of jump around…and now this pmj thing…
next year i’m doing jazz and orchestra stuff…maybe an opera thing…
here’s everlast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZmhQSNpTJM
this rearrangement stuff can be pretty darn fascinating at times…it shifts things a bit, and that’s a good thing…
So you’re saying there’s a chance
Good RJ article, although the three most interesting take-aways for me:
if Randle can have anything resembling a bounce-back year, then that helps too. (He’s due for a good one; history tells us that every bad Randle year is followed by a good one as immutable basketball law.)
and
I have seen the talk about Quentin Grimes’ potential, and I have seen the tape, and I am buying into the talk.
And
Patience, instead of instant gratification, feels like the modus operandi for these Knicks now, and that isn’t something standard to the team or its city.
hi raven, i hope you are having a wonderful sunday…
i still have a couple of tix for jenny & the mexicats if you’re gonna be around LA (santa ana) mid-october…
Hoping the Giants get lucky today. I’m going to the game with a bunch of Titan fans. :-P
RIP, Jonathan Tjarks. Fuck cancer.
The only thing the Knicks are doing patiently is waiting for a superstar to force his way here. It is we who are being patient.
hope all is well for ya al…
ugh, young guy with a young family…
Does anyone have any opinion on a Randle and Rose for Westbrook and a 2027 pick swap option for the Knicks….and actually trying to convince Russ to take on the Derrick Rose role? (20-25 mpg as a backup to Brunson?) on the promise that if it doesn’t work out they will release him? Russ seems made for NYC and might work well with a transition-oriented second unit…
There is no uglier word in the language than cancer. Trump is a close second. (Sorry if that offends anyone, just my opinion.)
I would only trade for Russ if he was going to immediately be released.
Nah…Cancer doesn’t even deserve to be fucked. Throw it up against the wall and sodomize it with a rusty rebar! I lost both parents to cancer, had cancer myself, have a best friend that had cancer, and another friend who has the same cancer my Dad died from. It is borne of hell and needs to go back where the fuck it came from.
Sorry for the extra expletives..Cancer really strikes a nerve with me- much like racism, bigotry, willful blindness, corruption, and Thibs pulling a hot Quickley in favor of Burks lol.
But yes, Z- I would do just that with Brodie. As a last resort though, D Rose is too important to this squad. However, if that is the only way to move Randle so that he doesn’t block an ascending Obi- I’d have to do it. Randle’s who he is at this point. The only thing he can do is embrace efficiency over stats to become a better player- but his skill set is clearly defined and maxed out. Sure, he can improve his 3 ball and use his iso skills in crunch time. But he’s not quite as effective in those situations as RJ was the 2nd half of last season. So it’s a no-brainer at this point to bank on RJ’s growth over Randle’s given that they are both likely to be a 2 or 3 on a championship squad. If either guy is a #3 on your team, you have a VERY good team
Westbrook’s weird nickname.
Guys, you seem to forget that Brodie’s other nickname is Westbrick. The man shot .298 from three last year, close to his career average. .444 overall FG%. Compare that to Rose hitting .400 from three last year, admittedly a bit of an outlier and small sample size. But even if you don’t compare the two (and some advanced stats are telling), Russ is not a good player. Not even a good backup. If you trade for him, don’t play him.
Two things:
First, trading for Westbrook would mostly be about unloading Randle’s contract.
Second, I think that if the Knicks would entertain pick swaps instead of outright unprotected pick acquisitions, LAL would be more likely to bite. Furthermore, it would actually increase the value of our unprotected 2027 pick in a future deal if it was also attached to a pick swap with the Lakers.
As to Russ himself, I’m a firm believer that when a player is on your roster, you give him every chance to redeem himself, but no more than that. I truly hated what D’Antoni did with Steph when he was clearly the best player in training camp and reported in top shape. So I’d give him a chance and cut him if it wasn’t working out.
I think you’re forgetting that Tom Thibodeau is our coach, and every chance to succeed is 38min a game for 82 games regardless of how terrible he is.
Except Kemba Walker apparently
Well, Kemba was shot from a physical perspective. That was ob ious in game 1, where he almost singlehandedly costed us that Celts win. Russ is not physically shot, just delusional at to his role (like Julius.)
Anyone watching tennis?
I think the Russ situation is very analagous to Melo when he was out of the league for nearly two years. He has to accept a diminished role, or play a bigger role for a losing team looking to sell tickets. He is not a top 3 option on a winner any more, let alone a top 2.
But if he accepted a diminished role, he could be a 6MoY candidate. The dude is still elite in a number of areas.
I am definitely watching Carlos. Love this kid so much.
Based on last year Russ has no intention of taking a back seat to anyone. Even the greatest player since Jordan retired… if not ever
We also have more of a logjam at guard than any other position
Who would have thought after Rose’s first jaunt into Knicksdom, that he would be so revered and important as a Knick? I hope he retires as a Knick. Which is conflicting because I also want Quickley on the ball more lol.
“Early Birdsays:
September 11, 2022 at 17:11
Based on last year Russ has no intention of taking a back seat to anyone. Even the greatest player since Jordan retired… if not ever
We also have more of a logjam at guard than any other position”
But you can’t just base things on last year. Russ was specifically acquired for that purpose. He was not qualified for the role he was acquired for. And the Lakers had no leverage to force him to adjust his role. AD and LeBron were often injured. The rest of the team wasn’t very good.
If he were traded, and disgracefully so, and knew that on his new team, he would have to accept a diminished role or be waived, with a chance that no one else would want him and with no contract leverage, there’s at least a chance that he would be more open to change.
Again, acquiring him specifically to fill a role would not be a good plan. Giving him a low-risk, make-good opportunity is far different than what he had in LA.
BTW, we don’t really have a logjam at guard if we include Rose in the trade as I proposed. we’d have a healthy competition for a back-up role. Brunson is going to start at SG, and either Fournier or Grimes is going to start at the 2. IQ is going to back up one of the guard positions. If Rose is gone, then it’s McBride (scrup) or Russ in my scenario.
Carlos seems to be out of gas finally. Still even in the match but doesnt look good
the US Open has been the first tennis i’ve watched in a while…the game has really changed, almost no long rallies on the men’s side…
the level of fitness for all players seems to have gone up a lot…seems like everyone plays very aggressively…no doubt analytics is having a big impact on the sport…
you all were not just hyping up alcaraz at all, been tuning in to his matches…he’s something very different…
In the hierarchy of Bad Idea Jeans this is somewhere between letting the freebase addict stay in your basement and not wearing a condom in Haiti.
Wow I was hoping the Giants would go for two there and they did.
I am all in on Brian Daboll. That was a perfect understanding of risk/reward. This is the kind of coach I like.
“In the hierarchy of Bad Idea Jeans this is somewhere between letting the freebase addict stay in your basement and not wearing a condom in Haiti.”
Nice one, drama queen. Now how about an actually intelligent rebuttal? Never mind, I wouldn’t really want to hear it.
But to the rest of you, it seems most would be fine with trading Randle and Rose for Westbrook and their 2027 #1 unprotected. Since LA won’t go for that, does anyone think that a pick swap would work, and if not, then protections on that pick?
And if yes, I ask…why waive Russ immediately? What is the risk in offering him a linited bench role on a make-good basis before waiving him? You just relieved the team of Julius Randle, who had the same issues and was on a 4-year deal. Russ effectively replaces Randle’s role, and our main gripes about Randle were about a) the length of his contract and b) his assumed unwillingness to accept a reduced (or bench) role for the benefit of the team.
(and let’s not have the “chasing marginal wins” conversation, it’s moot here in Knicksville, remember?
Alcaraz is looking like a winner…
I don’t think there is an intelligent rebuttal to “we should trade for Russell Westbrook with the expectation that he’ll be happy backing up Jalen Brunson and this won’t be a disaster” other than “No.”
Also my post was a call back to a classic SNL skit. Lighten up, Francis.
“we should trade for Russell Westbrook with the expectation that he’ll be happy backing up Jalen Brunson and this won’t be a disaster”
If you read carefully you might have understood that it wasn’t an expectation at all. The expectation was that it wouldn’t work. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t consider it. As with Randle, the issue is with role and contract size/length. If Randle had an untradeable 1-year contract and would accept a bench role, I’d be happy to offer him a reduced role before waiving him.
Think how many were totally against acquiring Derrick Rose for the same role…not just because of his off-the-court history, because of the way he played. Lo and behold, he not only played well, he was arguably our best player and at a career low usage in a bench role.
Now Russ may not be at all interested in, or capable of, fitting in to that role. But if the trade is made, I don’t see the harm in discussing it with him.
LOVE Daboll going for 2 there. My expectations for this season remain low, and ideally the Giants lose a lot and take a better QB than Daniel Jones. But my god, how refreshing was it to see that after two years of cowardly Joe Judge playcalls?
Just for the record, I am not ok trading Randle and Rose for Westbrook
Same Ol’ Jets. I wonder who the next washed up vet to replace the next franchise QB bust we move up to draft will be.
I’m not advocating for a Westbrook trade but Melo had a disastrous stint in OKC and then was embarrassingly cut by the rockets. That experience humbled him and he found a second wind as a bench player in Portland and extended his career after it looked like it was over. What can’t Westbrook have a similar come to Jesus moment?
“Knick fan not in NJsays:
September 11, 2022 at 20:55
Just for the record, I am not ok trading Randle and Rose for Westbrook”
I’m not ok with it either. Just wondering out loud about a possible way to unload Randle for those who are itching to do so.
And just to clarify, if anyone’s preference would be to do the deal but immediately buy out/waive Westbrook, that’s totally fair. You’d be committing to IQ as your backup PG with McBride as third string. The only remaining vet would be Fournier, which would be fine I guess.
Z-man, if Russ is capable of a Melo-esque humbling — and even that humbling has been overstated to a degree, I would argue — then it’s not going to come with the team who trades for him. At the earliest, it would come after that team releases him and he has to sign a smaller deal with a different team. Russ still thinks he is RUSS, despite literally years of evidence to the contrary, and multiple teams trading him away at the earliest possible opportunity.
Alan, I largely feel the same. The only thing that might make him consider it is that he is kinda built for NY from an fashion/endorsement POV. Maybe WWW could finesse him into accepting a role for a short time just to pump his value up a bit. Because right now he’s not going to get more than the minimum on his next contract unless he reinvents himself.
But yeah, it’s far more likely that he has to hit rock bottom like Melo did, and maybe that won’t even work for him. He’s a very strange bird.
While I would love to get a pick out of LA I do not think they want Randle, Rose, or Fournier enough to include one. So I would be totally fine doing a trade with no compensation back just Randle, Rose, and Fournier for Westbrook straight up.
If they want Cam I would insist on some compensation back maybe a top 5 protected 2027 that turns into a couple of 2nds if it doesn’t convey.
We would 100% need to be willing to immediately cut Westbrook though. I want him nowhere near our team.
I would also do Randle and Fournier for Hayward, salary filler, and a pick. The pick wouldn’t even have to be that good.
The Laker I’m eyeing in a trade this year is Anthony Davis. I wonder how much he’s going to enjoy being 2nd fiddle on the 9th seed Lakers with all the Russ, Pat Bev, and LeBron drama going on.
***The Laker I’m eyeing in a trade this year is Anthony Davis.***
Trade for Anthony Davis then pray the league goes on hiatus for 5 months right before the playoffs is as likely to produce a banner at msg than the current plan, but, still, it’s a dumb plan. The dude was never made of iron, but now he’s brittle, old, and kind of fat. I’d rather ride across a rising river on the back of Kristaps Porzingis than Anthony Davis at this point.