Knicks Morning News (2016.05.20)

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Friday's Knicks Links: Jackson has some explaining to do about hiring Hornacek (Fri, 20 May 2016 04:56:32 EST)

    Friday's Knicks Links: Jackson has some explaining to do about hiring Hornacek

  • [New York Times] Cavaliers 108, Raptors 89 | Cleveland leads series, 2-0: Cavaliers Dominate Raptors Again as LeBron James Posts Triple Double (Fri, 20 May 2016 03:53:10 GMT)

    James had 23 points, 11 rebounds and 11 assists, and Kyrie Irving led all scorers with 26 points, as Cleveland took a two-games-to-none lead over Toronto in the Eastern Conference finals.

  • [New York Times] Zhou Qi’s Potential Could Lead to Much NBA Draft Intrigue (Fri, 20 May 2016 06:51:37 GMT)

    Zhou Qi needs someone to help him communicate at workouts with NBA teams, simply because he does not speak English well enough to understand most instructions.

  • [New York Times] Perfect 10: Cavs Stay Unbeaten in Postseason, Down Raptors (Fri, 20 May 2016 03:54:37 GMT)

    Overshadowed as Golden State shot down history during the regular season, the Cavaliers are making this postseason their own.

  • [New York Times] King James Still the Best, Says Coach Lue (Fri, 20 May 2016 04:42:27 GMT)

    LeBron James may have ceded some of the NBA spotlight to Stephen Curry recently but remains the best player in the world, Cleveland coach Tyronn Lue said on Thursday.

  • [New York Times] James’ Triple-Double Powers Cavs to Rout of Raptors (Fri, 20 May 2016 03:33:30 GMT)

    LeBron James recorded his 15th post-season triple-double as he moved past Shaquille O’Neal into fourth place on the all-time post-season scoring list in the Cleveland Cavaliers’ 108-89 victory over the Toronto Raptors in Game 2 of the Eastern Conference finals on Thursday.

  • 80 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.05.20)”

    Even Isola had to write a mostly complimentary piece about the hiring today, albeit peppered with the occasional gratuitous Isiah conspiracy theory. Most of the media pieces are still laced with irritation that Phil defied all their narratives, which is kind of fun to witness.

    I heard SAS on Michael Kay’s show and Frank Isola on Bomani Jones’s show yesterday. Their spin on things is pretty funny. SAS basically thinks something along the lines of Phil was all set to hire Rambis until Melo expressed displeasure with the idea and Phil had to scramble after that. He also expressed outrage that the Knicks didn’t interview more qualified candidates “like Mark Jackson, who would have been a perfect fit” for the Knicks. Isola thinks that Phil didn’t want to hire Blatt because of the Mills-Princeton connection and, if he hired Blatt, it would be apparent to everyone that Mills has more power in the organization than Phil does. It really pisses Isola off that Phil reportedly reached out to Hornacek a month ago. He views that as total propaganda to further the “Hornacek was the guy all along” narrative. Both say that Melo and Porzingis “hated playing in the triangle” and never bought into it. Both (along with Kay) continue to harp on the “Phil did nothing for a month” narrative, despite all evidence to the contrary, and continue to rant that Phil is doing none of the work that real GMs do (it is apparently an unforgivable dereliction of duty not to attend the combine) and that he is not really earning his paycheck. And, finally, they are now moving on to the “Phil has been an abject failure because he hasn’t lured the big free agent” narrative. It is really pissing them off that Phil didn’t give Rambis the job.
    By the way, Dwight Howard comes across as a total clown in the ESPN interview.

    And today’s Berman headline is great — “Phil Jackson Caving on Coach Could be First Step to Knicks Exit.”

    Well hiring Hornacek is unfortunate to me. I do believe that the triangle is the most superior system, I did really want see it in New York.

    Pick n Roll is traditional basketball evolved, nothing but a bunch of PG dominated teams, wow, and possible big man scorers, that’s traditional at it’s core, in spite of the modern style. It’s mainstream more than modern.

    The triangle was distinctive, different, I liked that. The possibility of being different made me happy. It’s not a mainstream system, but could be more modern than the pick in some ways. The willingness to remove the PG’s dominance automatically guaranteed multiple passing teams, what could be better than that. But I guess it’s just Phil’s system to succeed with.

    The triangle will still be an important part of this offense because it’s good and not just because Phil is wedded to it.

    And isnt it great that the Unicorn is going to be coached by Horny?!

    What a wonderful time to be a Knick fan!

    We’ve been hoodwinked, bamboozled, HORNswoggled by Phil Jackson.

    I don’t care at this stage whether Dolan philibustered the Rambis nomination. I’d like to believe that Phil was aware enough to realize that the hire made no sense when key players on the team didn’t want Rambis and were at best meh about the Triangle. And that a Rambis-coached team playing the Triangle was gonna be radioactive to free agents.

    I’m more concerned that Jax won’t shoeHORN the coach into his system. I’m gonna be optimistic and believe that Phil was surprised and impressed by GSW’s performance since the goingk tweet and saw a lot of Kerr in Hornacek during the interview. I think, more than the Triangle implementation, Fish and the OKC coaches missing the retreat and the lack of communication is what really pissed Phil off. And who could blame Jax? Because of Phil, Fish was able to dribble right off the court into a lucrative coaching gig and then returned the favor by treating Jax like an eccentric uncle at Thanksgiving dinner.

    We finished 24th in offensive efficiency despite having mostly offense-only guys in Dwill, Afflalo, Calderon and Melo. If we don’t sign a single player this summer, we still rate to make a significant improvement in a new offense. Hornacek – moreso than Thibs, JVG, Blatt or Vogel – provides the best hope for maximizing the efficiency of our offense. If the offense is humming, greater intensity on the defensive end often follows.

    The willingness to remove the PG’s dominance automatically guaranteed multiple passing teams, what could be better than that.

    Winning. Winning would be better than that.

    Did anybody see Lebron and Kareem hug after the game last night? They’re practically the same height! And Lebron is out here playing PG pretty much on offense. What a crazy player.

    And how funny is it that they may sweep the East playoffs and then go into the finals as heavy underdogs?

    Until we get good players it still doesn’t matter what system we run.

    Did anybody see Lebron and Kareem hug after the game last night? They’re practically the same height!

    It’s funny, I saw that and I thought “old man Kareem still tall af”. Still think Phil should try to convince him to work with Porzingis.

    Winning. Winning would be better than that.

    Multiple passing helps you win. New York’s failure has nothing to do with playing the pick. It’s a rebuilding squad whose young players needed to mature in a improved east. You don’t guarantee success with the pick. Most teams that made the playoffs used the pick, but most teams that missed the playoffs used the pick. So why’d they miss the playoffs if the pick is everything. Because a lack of talent or health issues. The pick is no savior with everyone using it.

    Many will say that the Knicks didn’t fit the triangle, but I think Phil wanted to fix that by trading Jerian Grant for Darren Collison and rehabilitating Tony Wroten 6’6 guard, but that probably won’t happen now. That back court would have been triangulated.

    Anyway Jeff Hornacek is a good choice, because he believes in multiple pgs.

    I have no idea if Hornacek will turn out to be a good coach for NY, but I think it’s a major positive that he’s likely to play faster, use more P&R, spread the floor with 3s and big men that can shoot (KP), is not opposed to mid range shots being taken if they are EV+, very opposed to long 2s (get Melo on the right track), willing to use the post when there’s an advantage, and seems like he’s very adaptable to the players on the team. It’s seems to me that he’s kind of like D’Antoni but without the downside of not being adaptable at all in term of players and their strengths. That’s heaven to me.

    The 5 Knicks with the most playing time last year were Afflalo, Melo, Rolo, Porzingis & Galloway. That’s a team with 1 guy (Galloway) who can play fast. It was encouraging to hear that the FO doesn’t view Jose as a starter anymore, and with Afflalo likely on his way out we can at least put out a back court that can get up and down rapidly.

    I think it’s pretty important to get a guy who can play minutes at the 3 if we want to play faster. Melo could play a few minutes less, maybe play a little faster when he’s in, and it would help a lot with the structural problems with the roster that keep the Knicks from running at all.

    I just want a coach who doesn’t stare dumbfounded when his team is getting it’s ass kicked, and a coach who actually runs plays at the end of quarters that don’t involve Melo dribbling for 15 seconds and hoisting up a contested 20 footer.

    Maybe Hornacek is that coach.

    They have needed an upgrade at point guard for about forever. Get Seth Curry, he won’t cost an exhorbitant amount and may turn out to be above average at least. It’s definitely worth a shot.

    I think it’s pretty important to get a guy who can play minutes at the 3 if we want to play faster. Melo could play a few minutes less, maybe play a little faster when he’s in, and it would help a lot with the structural problems with the roster that keep the Knicks from running at all.

    Oh yeah, if they’re letting Hornacek play his system, there’s almost a guarantee that they get a 3, as Melo/Porzingis/Lopez would basically become the 4/5 rotation at that point, right (while perhaps all still starting the game at the 3/4/5)? If Hornacek is playing his own system, of course. Get this deal done so we can know for sure, darnit!

    As soon as KP is ready to become a full time C, that opens to the door to trading Lopez for legit starter somewhere else. My guess is that they are going to keep the lineup similar to last year (maybe give KP a little more time at C) and focus on getting a starting SG that’s a upgrade from AA. Grant is going to be the starting PG unless he make no progress in the off season or Wroten comes back way better than expected.

    Grant definitely fits Hornacek’s system well. I can actually feel somewhat optimistic about Grant if he’s in Hornacek’s system.

    I really don’t like the idea of trading Lopez, at least not this year. KP is not strong enough or a good enough rebounder yet to play the 5 full time. And without Lopez you’re stuck with Willie Hernangomez (we have no idea what he is) and Kyle O’Quinn as backup 5s.

    Lopez is a really good player on a reasonable contract. We don’t HAVE to trade him.

    I highly doubt we’re going to do anything significant at the PG position. We already have 3 PGs on the roster in Grant, Calderon, and Galloway (assuming he’s re-signed) – and that’s not even counting Wroten.

    I’d rather sign Bazemore or another wing-type and then add a lower-tier PG/SG type in free agency than trade Lopez, unless of course we are really winning the talent side of the trade or getting significant draft compensation in addition. Jeff Teague does not meet that qualification.

    Why does everybody think Afflalo won’t be here this year? Is somebody else gonna pay him more than $8mm? DWill is s good energy guy who can score off the bench so I hope he stays… Unless the $ keeps us from getting Batum, who would be perfect for us.

    Afflalo probably won’t get $8 million from another team, but could someone throw 3 years, $16 million at him? 2 years, $12 million? He’s not a vet’s min guy yet. Most of the teams will have cap space this offseason, someone’s gonna get that money.

    Add to that, he had a spat in the press with Rambis after going to the bench. Maybe the coaching change alleviates that, but the backcourt minutes are already being split up among Grant, Galloway, Wroten, Calderon, and perhaps a free agent. There’s enough factors to reasonably expect him to move along.

    Oh yeah, if they’re letting Hornacek play his system

    If Hornacek’s got a “system”, we’ve hired the wrong guy. From what I’ve read, his strength is that he’ll adapt the offense to the players versus shoehorning the players into a system. For example, he’ll notice that Lopez shoots 55% on that hook shot so he will design plays to get him position for that hook. If Lopez’s got a favorable match up in a particular game, he’ll be smart enough to use those plays more frequently. There are many ways to go in terms of using Porzingis, Melo, and Galloway. I want a coach who will be sufficiently flexible and analytical to try different things and adapt accordingly. It sounds simple enough but it’s the exception in the NBA. I remember a long-time bench coach saying it’s a myth that coaches adapt to their players; he said that other than Pop, Riley, and Carlisle, they all bring their systems and try to fit their players into their systems.

    I really don’t like the idea of trading Lopez, at least not this year.

    Agreed. There’s more than enough minutes for Lopez, even if KP begins to play center. If some amazing deal offers itself up, then sure, but otherwise, stick with him.

    I think system is the wrong word, but reporters I trust have said that Horny believes that teams should try to play fast and shoot lots of 3s on offense. (which is correct, at least in general) But believing that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to get Lopez shots

    If AA bolts, who’s out there at the 2? Seems like the pickings aren’t as slim as the PGs.

    Seth Curry is an RFA. Maybe a poison pill contract could get him here to NYC? Might be worth it.

    I think Wroten is the likely starter at SG if he’s sufficiently recovered from his injury, unless Phil signs Bazemore and he becomes a revelation. Any improvement in the backcourt is probably gonna come from within so Grant & Galloway better be ready to take the next step. It does help to have a coach like Hornacek in that regard. If Phil manages to add an impact player this offseason, it will probably be via trade in which the team absorbs a larger deal with the cap space. Honestly, I wouldn’t have a problem if Phil is able to stretch Calderon, add Bazemore and Seth Curry to the backcourt rotation, retain Williams and Thomas, and bring in Hernangomez and a low cost defensive big. As long as we get the expected improvement from KP, I think Hornacek should be able to put the rest of that proposed roster in position to succeed without guys fighting for roles or trying to do too much. I wouldn’t expect 50 wins, but a decent improvement shouldn’t be far-fetched. Then, moving forward, the team should be in a good position to sustain momentum.

    JK47, are you Seth Curry’s agent or something? He’s essentially a replacement player; he’s not even young. He’ll be 26 next year, and probably won’t get much better.

    FG% 3P% 2P% FT% TS% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
    .452 .385 .484 .820 .557 3.8 2.5 0.6 0.2 1.5 2.6 14.5
    .448 .451 .444 .833 .595 3.2 3.4 1.2 0.2 1.8 2.2 15.2

    Which player would you rather have, A or B? Clearly B, but not by a lot….which is not encouraging, given that A is Afflalo and B is Curry. A poison pill contract is not an $8 mil per year deal, so you’d be paying a lot more for a league average guard. I’m guessing twice as much as Arron’s $8 mil, which really doesn’t seem a smart move to me.

    His brother is pretty great, though.

    “Any improvement in the backcourt is probably gonna come from within”
    This is one of the more depressing things I’ve read here lately.

    Any improvement in the backcourt will come from our $25m in cap space.

    “Any improvement in the backcourt is probably gonna come from within”
    This is one of the more depressing things I’ve read here lately.

    Ha! It really is depressing isn’t it? I just don’t see available guards taking less to play for the Knicks given the expected cap hike

    I see hope in Grant and Galloway getting better, and I like Lance Thomas. Let’s not forget, the season slipped away around the same time Lance got hurt.

    Seth Curry can’t guard anyone. He can shoot which is nice of course, and by all reports his PNR playmaking is getting better. But I think we’ve had enough of guards that can’t defend, especially if it’s going to take a poison pill contract to get him here.

    Honestly, I think a successful offseason =

    Hire a reasonable coach –> check

    Resign Lance Thomas, ideally for $10MM AAV or less
    Resign Langston Galloway, ideally for less than whatever the MLE AAV will be.
    Bring Willie H-G over

    Let Afflalo and DWill go

    Free agent signings
    Stretch-waive Calderon – should open up about $35-36MM in cap room

    Add Batum — seems unlikely so I won’t even bother.

    or

    Add Bazemore — likely to cost $15-18MM/year I would guess
    + 2nd tier wing — like Jared Dudley, who I’ve always liked. ~$10MM?
    or if not Dudley, maybe someone like Moe Harkless? He’s restricted but Portland has a lot of wings/guards to pay. And he’s an New Yorker I think, right?

    So:

    Sign Bazemore first – say $16MM
    Sign Dudley second – say $10MM
    Sign Thomas 3rd – say $10MM
    use EB rights on Galloway

    Roster then would be:

    C: Lopez, KOQ
    PF: KP, Hernangomez
    Wing: Melo, Bazemore, Lance Thomas, Dudley
    PG: Grant, Galloway, Wroten

    I think we can get enough reasonable PG play out of Grant/Galloway/Wroten with Melo also doing some primary ball-handling if necessary. And the backcourt D will be orders of magnitude better without Calderon or Afflalo on the court.

    “I think Wroten is the likely starter at SG if he’s sufficiently recovered from his injury”
    That’s brilliant – a starting shooting guard that can’t shoot. Sign me up for that!

    I expect some sort of ‘system’ basketball from Horny, meaning a read and react offense with a lot of weakside action. Partly because if he hadn’t convinced Phil of that he wouldn’t be getting the job. But mostly because he’s said two of his three most influential coaches were Cotton Fitzsimmons and Jerry Sloan. Both ran system offensives (triangle variation and Flex respectively). The other coach was his dad. Not sure what kind of offenses he runs.

    It’s not like running ‘system’ offensives is bad anyway. Pop runs a system, Kerr runs a system – read and react with a lot of three man ‘micro-sets’ they can move into from any point. Yes, some of those sets are PnR but at a very basic level it’s the triangle adapted to spread positioning.

    Great piece about Hornacek and his time with the Suns on CBS Sports:

    – Had a great first year and overachieved with two good point guards in Bledsoe and Dragic. Believed in fast pace with high efficiency shooting. Great.

    – The Suns signed a THIRD point guard in Isiah Thomas.

    – Hornacek has a well-publicized heart to heart with Dragic and secures a commitment from him. Then management trades Dragic 3 days later to the Heat, leaving Hornacek stunned.

    – The Suns signed Tyson Chandler, had bad season and was injured

    – Bad chemistry ensues

    – Assistants Longabardi and Sichting are fired in December

    – Hornacek fired in February with 14-35 season.

    … Wow, quite a messy 6 month period with NO leeway they gave him.

    That doesn’t even include the Morris brothers fiasco when they traded Marcus! (and the towel-throwing-at-Hornacek shit that followed)

    Sign Batum or Bazemore and Lin. Bring over Willy. Resign (can go over the cap, right?) LT and Galloway.

    Grant/Lin
    Batum or Bazemore (Bazemore is probably more gettable)
    Melo
    KP
    Lopez

    LT
    O’Quinn (if not traded)
    Hernangomez
    Galloway
    Wroten
    Calderon
    Filler

    (possibly trade Calderon…he is now an expiring, but he might be a solid combo guard off the bench for 12-15 minutes).

    Celebrate!

    $10 million for Lance Thomas scares the shit out of me. Landry Fields looked great for half a season too, once.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Lance and Langston end up with something like the Patrick Beverly contract, 4 years $25 million. Less would obviously be ideal, but there’s so many teams with so much money to spend.

    If Hornacek’s got a “system”, we’ve hired the wrong guy.

    It’s not like running ‘system’ offensives is bad anyway. Pop runs a system, Kerr runs a system

    Just to clarify, I want Hornacek to build a “system” for our specific group of players instead of showing up like D’Antoni or Phil or most other coaches with a system and then tweaking it for the players. Riley’s Showtime teams were very different from his Knick teams which were very different from his Heat teams. From what I’ve read, Hornacek is very focused on putting players in the best position to succeed based on their skill sets and analytics. That didn’t happen last season on the Knicks.

    I wouldn’t mind seeing Lance and Langston end up with something like the Patrick Beverly contract, 4 years $25 million. Less would obviously be ideal, but there’s so many teams with so much money to spend.

    I think that’s what will happen. Galloway being an RFA and the first 2 years being locked in no matter what at $5.7m, make him a virtual lock to return imo. I also think Phil giving Lance a little extra $$ last summer when he didn’t have to buys him some good will.

    Fisher loved Lance. Horny may be looking for something else. Be interesting to see what Lance could get on the market

    Seth Curry would be a good signing if he keeps up that .600 TS%. The reason our previous defensively challenged PGs were eye sores were because they were bad offensive players as well (Calderon is still valuable but not a very impactful offensive player). I think Seth Curry is capable of 16 points/36 and 8 assists/36 on that .600TS of his over 2,000 minutes. Also, Seth is not restricted. He’s a UFA which means you can probably get him for the same money Galloway is going to get. That’s the kind of risk you need to take.

    Lance seems like the type of player coaches in general love. Scott Brooks, Brad Stevens and SVG raved about him as well and Phil seems to really like him too. I think he’s a keeper.

    I think Lance came over because of Fish, but it’s clear Phil thought of him as one of the “learners” on the squad and I bet they try to bring him back. Say what you want about Phil and the rest of the front office, it seems they have really put together a type of club that will take coaching. It’s not like Lance Thomas is going to throw a towel in Hornacek’s face if he isn’t getting a play run for him.

    Hernangomez looks skilled. Knicks aren’t built to absorb alot of free agents.

    Are the people who called the Wroten signing “intriguing” the same people who said that Seth Curry wasn’t worth a 2-year guaranteed league minimum contract? Asking for a friend.

    @45 – Agree 100%. Seth Curry is a risk well worth taking. It’s not like Westbrook, Irving, or the other Curry are walking through the Knicks’ door any time soon

    Seth Curry sports a career assist % of 14 (granted in a small sample size) so signing him to run the point would seem to be a stretch. He doesn’t rebound at all and is a poor defender. The rest of the Knicks guards are bad enough so he might be worth signing anyway but expecting him to do anything other than shoot well from the perimeter seems unlikely to me.

    Seth Curry isn’t really a PG, and isn’t that good, but he can shoot and this team could use shooting. If the price is right he’d help the Knicks win more games

    Seth Curry was racking up the assists when he got playing time this season. They put him in the high P&R and he had himself a 15 assist game I believe. Of course it was against Phoenix in April, but there is potential there. And it’s cheap, good shooting potential that costs nothing but cap space. We need to be interested.

    @47

    Yeah, it’s weird. There’s like, an organizational hierarchy or something.

    For all the bullshit out there around the Fish firing, I don’t think you have to look beyond that.

    Damn. That screws up everything. I’d still offer him $24 million over 3 years.

    We really need to start complaining to the Daily News about Isola’s unprofessional antics.

    @57 unprofessional how? I’ll bet the Daily News loves him. He stirs up crap and probably generates lots of page hits/sales, etc. Sad.

    I’m not wasting $8m/yr to gamble on Seth Curry. His less than 700 minute sample in the NBA isn’t nearly large enough to warrant that type of risk.

    I can see Phil doing what he did last year, namely spending about 15 mill/per for an upgrade at shooting guard like he did at center. How old was Rolo…27 at the time? So who might that be? Bazemore would seem like a logical candidate, coming into his prime years with an all around game. Batum if he can get him for around that same price, which is problematic. I like Fournier, Crabbe and Clarkson, younger, but they’re RFA’s and so we would have to overpay and they wouldn’t be a value choice because of being RFA’s plus they’d probably be matched anyway. Stephenson might go for around 10 mill and possibly bring the most value, leaving room for a Pao and/or Leuer. Evan Turner could be had for less than 15 mill if Phil is in love with him but personally I’d want a guy who can shoot the three. Overall, we have a lot of depth in the backcourt but we need at least one upgrade in quality. I vote for Bazemore if we can’t get Batum at a reasonable value.

    If guys like Evan Turner and Kent Bazemore are going to be getting 8 figures a year this summer, I would have no problem giving Seth Curry $8 million a year. Ideally I’d like to give him $15 million over 3 years with the 3rd being a team option, but he’s an RFA and I firmly believe he’s a risk worth taking.

    In draft news, the Knicks met with and interviewed Melo Trimble. That kid can flat out ball, and if we can acquire a late 1st-early 2nd I sure hope it is to select him.

    If Hornacek is going to be running some mix of Triangle, Flex and his 4 out sets in Phoenix then Turner really doesn’t make sense.

    I don’t think Bazemore is that good tbh. I see him as a complete product of the system he’s in and not a good enough 3 point shooter or driver to justify the money he’s going to get without being a defensive stopped, which he is not.

    Ok…how about this:
    1. Sign Ty Lawson. He will come cheap as a low risk/high reward reclamation project under Coach Hornacek. And he plays the type of game that Coach would likely want the team to play.
    2. Sign Bazemore.
    3. Bring Hernangomez over.
    4. Retain Williams and Thomas.
    5. See if Birdman wants to play another year
    6. Buy a late 1st/early 2nd and draft a PG

    How much would Seth be worth if his last name wasn’t Curry?

    Nice rhetorical question. Why don’t you try to figure out how valuable a 60.3 TS% shooter at league-average usage is and get back to us?

    I mean, I can help you, though. Let’s start with a question:

    How many Knicks had a TS% higher than 57.4%?

    Answer? I’ll let you do the research.

    Follow-up question: How many minutes were given to players on the Knicks who couldn’t crack a 50 TS%?

    I can answer this one: 4,182 minutes were given to players who did not exceed 50 TS%.

    That’s 51 minutes per game. For perspective, the Lakers had the worst TS% by far in the league this year with a 50.9 TS%. The Warriors had the #1 TS% in the league with 59.3%.

    @66

    Seth Curry has played less than 700 minutes in his career. I’m happy his TS% is amazing, but that doesn’t mean shit when determining whether he’s worth throwing long-term money at.

    I think a league average player on the open market is going to be able to get something like 10-12 million per, so if you think Curry was legit last year, then he’s definitely worth 3/24. His track record is why you’d (theoretically) get him at a discount. I dunno-we really do need shooting.

    How much would Seth be worth if his last name wasn’t Curry?

    Steph Curry actually signed a below-market contract with Golden State because they were still awaiting DNA documentation saying that he wasn’t related to Eddy.

    You can’t trust those miniscule minutes! If you’re going to act like a math genius on here then you should already know this.

    Bruh.

    What exactly does Curry give you that you don’t already get from Calderon? Both guys give you good shooting (and if you just asked Calderon to take spot-up jumpers from three I’m guessing he’d come close to a 60%TS), no defense, no rebounding, and not a ton of playmaking. Curry would be an upgrade but not a giant one unless you think he can take a solid step forward as a playmaker at age 26- certainly a possibility but not a given. To me Curry would be yet another guard on the roster best suited to coming off of the bench. If you want to sign him at 8m instead of Gallo at 5.7m that’d be fine but I’d rather not have a bunch of bench-level guys making guaranteed money when 2017 free agency rolls around.

    nicos, I agree totally. We need at least one guard who is dependable if not an outright stud. We already have plenty of question marks there to begin with.

    The thing about Seth Curry is that he has been a good basketball player on every level he’s played at. He tore the D League up, he played well in college, he crushed Summer League, and now he’s shown he can play on the NBA level. You look at 700 minutes as an aberration while I look at it as confirmation of what I’ve seen from him since college. The guy can play and somebody is going to realize it. Considering our guard situation, it needs to be us.

    If the 700 minutes are representative, Seth Curry is basically Steve Novak with a lot more assists and a lot more turnovers. Slightly worse shooter, slightly better defender. The kind of guy you pick up for some extra spot-up offense off the bench to try and push a deep playoff run, not the kind of guy a decent team puts on point. Good roster add for the Knicks because we lack efficient shooting (and we suck). We could probably poach him for 12/year because he’s a 26yo off the bench 3 point specialist who’s likely hit his ceiling already. At 8/year the Kings probably match because he has a famous last name (and because they suck). I think it’s moot because he’s such a one-way player that Jackson won’t go after him. Either way, he’s not his brother and he never will be, and the Knicks are far enough away from a deep playoff run that giving him a roster spot is wasting a chance to take a chance on young 2-way talent that could still develop.

    I’m ok with Seth at the right price, which is somewhere in the $4 Mill range. He’s not worth $12 million. He’s clearly a good shooter (comparing him to Landry Fields is a joke, right?) The problem with him is he’s a poor defender. So what do we get in him that we don’t already have in Calderon, other than youth?

    FWIW, Calderon had a higher defensive rating than Curry last year. I would not pay $10-12 mill for a poor defender unless his name was something like Kyle Korver. Thankfully, Phl hasn’t forgotten that defense is close to as important as offense.

    Comparing Seth Curry to Steve Novak legit only works on paper because Steve Novak could not dribble or attack the basket. Same with Kyle Korver. I’m about improving a team, and Seth Curry, despite his small sample size, would be an upgrade over Grant, Calderon, and Wroten. He’s either a better shooter or a better athlete than all of them and he would cost us less than any other available FA point guard (and he’s not the health risk a lot of those guys are). Seth Curry can operate a high P&R and he can work off the ball which makes him a really good fit in a Horny/Jackson hybrid offense. There’s the issue with the defense, but baby steps. His contract would be movable, and then there’s always the slim chance that Grant pulls a Schröder and becomes the heir apparent to the starting job.

    To me, the positive outweighs the negative as he is the best shooter and the cheapest option of all available point guards. Ty Lawson sounds great, but his alcoholism is a serious issue and I would not bring him in without a contingency plan…like Seth Curry. I don’t think it’s arguable that the Knicks should show interest in Seth Curry. He has been a .600 TS% guy since college, and we’ve seen him do it again this season for Sacramento.

    FWIW, I’d be okay with signing Curry if Galloway is not resigned. I doubt that Phil will want to tie up money in both. Curry will likely be more expensive, too. I think Grant deserves a better look this year, at least as a co-starter.

    I hope, and think, that Phil will set his sights higher, though, on a more all-around (also, of course, more expensive) guard this offseason. I think that the Knicks can get by with Grant/Calderon/Wroten/one year trial PG like Lawson if they get the good wing first.

    If the good wing becomes elusive, maybe Lin? I wonder what he’ll cost. This offseason there’s so much cash available to teams…

    I agree with massive.

    That’s the sort of risk moves we should be doing.

    Even with the cap raise, I think we can get him for less than 8 million.

    We are talking about a 26-year-old player who only played 700 minutes for 4 teams.

    Basically we should be bidding against Sacramento

    We could probably poach him for 12/year because he’s a 26yo off the bench 3 point specialist who’s likely hit his ceiling already. At 8/year the Kings probably match because he has a famous last name (and because they suck).

    Exactly. This is not a “risk move we should be doing.” He is not going to sign for less than $8 mil. He will get Shump money, at least, and he’s probably about 90% as good as he’s going to get.

    When we could have signed him for Galloway money, that would have been a good move. But now that isn’t going to happen, and people are writing about a one-tool one-way player like he is worth taking a big chunk of our cap. He ain’t.

    If we did sign him for a price the Kings might not match – my guess is $12 mil – in a year from now everyone would be complaining that we couldn’t sign great PG XYZ because we don’t have enough cap space because that dunce Phil Jackson tied it up in a limited, one-way player who’s ideally suited to come off the bench for a good team in a Bobby Jackson role.

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