2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Timberwolves

The Knicks host the Timberwolves on the second half of their dumb home and home series (why are these two teams doing a home and home is still beyond me).

The Timberwolves lost to the Knicks on Wednesday despite Karl-Anthony Towns playing one of the best games that you would ever see and the Wolves being at home. The second of those things won’t be true tonight and it seems highly unlikely that the first will be repeated, as well (as simply, who has games like Towns did back-to-back? Nobody, that’s who).

So the Knicks really, really should win this game. The rest of the Wolves are not particularly good, so if the Knicks beat them when their best player was spectacular, it is unlikely that they would lose again. So hopefully this is an easier win. Boy, I don’t like the Wolves.

Let’s go, Knicks!

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249 thoughts to “2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Timberwolves”

  1. I think the NBA does these weird home and home series is for schedule “fairness”. Both teams are in the same dumb boat tonight.

  2. This is the game that the Knicks should have won, but I fear the let-down. So tonight is a bigger test than the last game. Can they be consistent?

    Damn Noah is out again and so is Lee.

  3. I don’t mind Holiday starting. Though I suspect that means a lotta Second Unit Sasha.

    #FreeRon

  4. Nonsense. It’s an 18 game sample, and the Knicks are a whopping two games better than their Pythag projection.

    Lies!

  5. I really hate how Melo gets all the good press for hitting the go-ahead shot. As if the fact that he missed the previous 700 shots and just general all-around terrible play wasn’t a major reason why the game was close enough to require that shot in the first place.

  6. Spears:

    Nets have signed restricted free agent forward Donatas Motiejunas to an offer sheet paying $37 million over four years, sources told ESPN.

  7. I really hate how Melo gets all the good press for hitting the go-ahead shot. As if the fact that he missed the previous 700 shots and just general all-around terrible play wasn’t a major reason why the game was close enough to require that shot in the first place.

    Truth.

  8. He made the shot, the Knicks won the game – Truth

    Why all the hate? You’d rather he missed to strengthen the “Melo sucks” narrative ?

  9. Why all the hate? You’d rather he missed to strengthen the “Melo sucks” narrative ?

    No, I’d rather people were smart enough to realize that hitting the last shot of the game doesn’t mean he had a good game. The sooner Porzingis is announced last during the starting lineup announcements the better, and every time Melo gets a pass for terrible play the longer that gets put off.

  10. I really hate how Melo gets all the good press for hitting the go-ahead shot.

    Remember how melo couldn’t make a shot in the last few minutes for the last couple years? He got bad press for that no matter how good he was before that. The hate for melo here has really hit a high and is kinda sad.

  11. @19 That’s not criticism. Criticism is saying he did things poorly and or had a bad game. You said you are mad he got good press. That’s hate buddy

  12. @19 That’s not criticism. Criticism is saying he did things poorly and or had a bad game. You said you are mad he got good press. That’s hate buddy

    Because it was undeserved. That’s honest criticism.

    Sometimes I think some people don’t understand that 2 points in the final seconds is worth exactly as much as 2 points midway through the first quarter. Missing lots of shots with iso/hero-ball is bad basketball. Just because he managed to finally hit one in the final 3 seconds doesn’t erase the awful play in the preceding 47 minutes and 57 seconds.

  13. I am digging this Holiday lineup. Amazing how our FA starters are being outplayed by their off the bench subs.

  14. If Holiday wasn’t a min player would he be getting roated for all the back door cuts he give up?

  15. @27 lol he made a shot to win the game who cares? Oh wait you honest “criticizers” are out for justice. Whatevs man Keep our Journalists honest!!!!

  16. If Holiday wasn’t a min player would he be getting roated for all the back door cuts he give up?

    Probably, but he’s still better than Lee.

  17. @27 lol he made a shot to win the game who cares? Oh wait you honest “criticizers” are out for justice. Whatevs man Keep our Journalists honest!!!!

    This is why the Knicks refuse to rebuild. There’s enough saps out there to keep their pockets flush without having to work for it.

  18. As much as I hate that we’re having this conversation in the middle of a game, I have to say that Kahzy is making a lot of sense.

  19. I don’t really care though. Press ain’t my thing so good luck with your crusade though. I mean it

  20. Given that both KP and Melo are off to not good starts, it’s rather encouraging that we’re winning so handily.

    Though, this is the Knicks so I fully expect a late third quarter collapse against the worst 3rd quarter team in the league.

  21. Good, after at least three posts belaboring the issue er finally decides he doesn’t care. LOL.

    Now, we can actually focus on the game that’s actually happening.

  22. @20 – 1/3 truth?
    You need to check your math

    Made shot – check
    Won game – check
    100% truth . Not half, not 1/3, all true 1/1

  23. KP is missing his shots but I like that he’s recognizing the double team and passing to the open man.

  24. Watching on League Pass and I’m so tired of watching the new Foot Locker Monstars commercial. Am I the only person who couldn’t care less about a Space Jam 2?

  25. @43

    Get back to me after the game so I can squash your post. The game is on now so I am focused on it.

  26. DRed doesn’t seem to be watching and that’s probably good with what Cole is doing out there…

  27. Man, I love the way the team looks with Jennings and KP. The ball movement is so much better.

  28. For a guy who’s supposed to help revolutionize the stretch 5 position, KP is oddly terrible at defending similar (though far inferior) players.

  29. Jennings as a back-up at 5mill/year is great. Not sure I’d want to give him more responsibility and money though.

  30. Good, after at least three posts belaboring the issue er finally decides he doesn’t care. LOL.

    I don’t care about 95% of what the pessimists “criticize”. That doesn’t mean I can’t talk about it. The fact that you care about what the press writes says more about you than me.

  31. Watching on League Pass and I’m so tired of watching the new Foot Locker Monstars commercial. Am I the only person who couldn’t care less about a Space Jam 2?

    We have to deal with the Kars for Kids commercials though…

  32. Clyde may have gone too far with his outfit tonight…

    Clyde could walk out in a muumuu and a tiara and it wouldn’t be too far.

  33. Melo is so awesome when he lets the game come to him.

    Truth. It’s one of the most frustrating things about him.

  34. The Jennings-Rose backcourt works because Jennings is better at distributing than Rose is. Rose might be better suited as a shooting guard.

  35. The Jennings-Rose backcourt works because Jennings is better distributing than Rose is. Rose might be better suited as a shooting guard.

    Maybe if basketball worked like football and they never had to play defense.

  36. This is my optimal Knicks experience so far – good unselfish ball movement and defensive effort all around.

  37. can the Knicks just start O’Quinn already?

    the team looks so much better with him than with Noah… I mean, it’s the Wolves, a terrible team, but he has been pretty good.

  38. @69 – I would rather he go 13/20 instead of 5/20. Wouldn’t you? You know he’s not taking fewer shots, right? And you know he’s going to play the minutes, right?

  39. Great half by Kyle…I forgot how versatile LANCE is on D. Good for him hitting that’s 3. Hope he can keep it up

  40. The Knicks are unbeaten with O’Quinn in the starting lineup?

    START ALL THE O’QUINN’S ALL THE O’TIMES!

  41. The Process with another three 3’s tonight. And no turnovers

    One of the best nicknames in recent memory, imho.

  42. Hornacek is outcoaching Thibadeau tonight. He made sure to stop KAT and the Wolves haven’t really provided much of a consistent answer.

  43. It would be nice if SAC beats Boston tonight. It’s a loss for the Cs and SAC would have less urgency on Sunday. After a Saturday night in NY.

  44. @96 Because he’s old and broke down?

    And the latest in a long line of unwisely signed injury prone aging stars. Which sucks because I love the man. I live in UF country and he was one of the few college players I regularly followed.

  45. And the latest in a long line of unwisely signed injury prone aging stars. Which sucks because I love the man. I live in UF country and he was one of the few college players I regularly followed.

    The most telling indictment of our franchise is that we traded away the pick to get Noah only to then overpay tens of millions for him well after his prime.

  46. KP almost has as many assists as he does rebounds. There are times when that would be impressive and bode well for a possible triple double. This is not one of those times.

  47. The most telling indictment of our franchise is that we traded away the pick to get Noah only to then overpay tens of millions for him well after his prime.

    Man, it’s even more depressing when put like this. Thanks for ruining what’s left of my night…

  48. The team is up by twelve. We get to watch the monster that is Cole Aldrich. Melo is shooting well. Things are good in Knicksland for the evening.

  49. Thanks Ras. Anyway the team is so much better with KOQ, it’s a blessing in disguise.

    We’re definitely seeing how overpriced our veterans are.

  50. Towns has quietly put together a pretty good game. Meanwhile KP has been pretty forgettable.

  51. Towns has quietly put together a pretty good game. Meanwhile KP has been pretty forgettable.

    Really? I thought Towns had a terrible first half.

  52. He did, that’s why I said quietly. Maybe I should have said a pretty decent game instead of a pretty good one.

  53. Towns has been helped by the whistle in the second half. He’s not played well at based on the differentials (2nd worst on his team).

  54. This team is incapable of having an easy win because they are the worst fucking defensive team I’ve ever seen.

  55. I just tuned in and the first thing I see is a close-up on Shabazz Muhammad. Are wevsure he’s not already 35? Dude looks old

  56. When Melo re-enters this game he has my full blessing to shoot every time he touches the ball.

  57. just got home a little while ago – NBA tv been showing some of the action…dang – dem knicks gotta make it hurt don’t they…

    looks like our starters will be going back in soon…

  58. It amazes me how much contact it takes for a Knicks player to draw a whistle especially when the refs are calling touch fouls for the wolves.

  59. You know what really vexes me about this season? Noah practically terrorized the Knicks and laughed when he was a Bull, but thus far he has been nothing near the menace he was in Chicago. Just a random thought I had during the break..

  60. that alley-oop attempt between Wiggins and LaVine kinda summarizes the Wolves perfectly lol

  61. nice work by Rose down the stretch, KP with an off game and please, please, keep starting O’Quinn.

  62. KOQ apparently is playing like a man possessed tonight. Maybe he has been possessed by the spirit of Chicago Noah or the original Oak whenever Ewing was injured. I’ve only been watching since the 4th quarter started and he’s been awesome since I’ve been watching

  63. D Rose and O’Quinn are the reason we’re on pace to win this game.

    I think Fisher got fired because he played Seraphin over O’Quinn. That had to cost us 4 wins last season.

  64. Baby Oak has been “that dude”tonight!!!!

    Rose has been good.

    Melo hot from 3.

    I like Holiday… a lot.

    Good win!

  65. @152

    he still has 11 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks, I’m pretty sure he had worse games.

  66. If this is who Kyle O’Quinn is when he starts then we don’t have any use for Noah.

    Okay maybe Noah is still our best defender.

  67. he still has 11 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists and 2 blocks, I’m pretty sure he had worse games.

    2/12 from the field though and almost as many turnovers has rebounds.

  68. If Kyle O’Quinn is not the story of the game there will be hell to pay for all the journalists out there. lol

  69. He should trade us Dunn and his first for Kyle O’Quinn. He should be dreaming of a Towns/O’Quinn front court.

  70. With this KOQ and this Rose we should be the 2nd best team in the East.

    The thing is it’s highly unlikely those two will play this well all season.

    Great game from Rose. Good scoring efficiency with 5 boards, 5 assists, and only 1 turnover. Can’t complain about that.

  71. I kinda like having a team where a different guy steps up every night, in this cals, O’Quinn. Oh, and Melo and DRose were huge factors in this win. Holiday was also very active on both ends.

  72. and Porzingis had 11 points on 15 true shot attempts, pretty putrid with the four TO in there (he’s still the MVP of the team so far, but call it how you see it, not how you want to see it)

  73. 7 offensive rebounds for Kyle O’Quinn. Great game.

    Everybody who hated on the kid from Queens should eat crow!

  74. Looking at how awful the Wolves are, I’m really glad PJ did not consider Thibs for the Knicks. I have no idea whats going on with them but they should be better than they are.

  75. Porzingis was terrible tonight, but the guy hasn’t played 100 NBA games yet so I’m more willing to forgive games like this when we win.

  76. Good win. We’re over .500 and the team has yet to play its best basketball together. Maybe we’re a playoff contender after all.

  77. Looking at how awful the Wolves are, I’m really glad PJ did not consider Thibs for the Knicks. I have no idea whats going on with them but they should be better than they are.

    I dunno…maybe he doesn’t have enough players on that team that can play well defensively. One thing’s for sure, tonight’s game makes me wanna grow a KOQ beard and go around letting out primal yells everywhere lol

  78. Yeah, KP was terrible tonight, but that only makes performances like Wednesdays even more impressive. He’s 21 and hasn’t even fully built his body yet. He’s going to have nights where he’s not good, but the good nights are far, far outweighing the bad so far.

    Kyle O’Quinn, man. This is a guy with the skills to be this good every night — maybe not the scoring, but all the other parts — who only occasionally seems to put it all together. But when he does… Well, I hope Hornacek figures out a way to keep this version of O’Quinn unlocked for a while.

  79. The Justin Holiday throw in looks like such a steal on nights like tonight. 13 points, 7 rebounds, and 3 steals as a fill in for Courtney Lee. The Knicks were a regular Porzingis game away from a blow out.

    We gotta fix that defense, though.

  80. We have 15 players ready to step up and a pretty smart coach who rotates them according to the circumstances.
    I really like our situation this season !

  81. Just win baby. Ugly wins against bad teams count. Oaq is similar to Oak in that he makes at least one really bad (infuriating) pass per game and usually with bad timing. I can live with it if he plays like tonight.

  82. Underrated stats in this game:
    Holiday’s 7 rebounds and 3 steals
    Jennings 8 dimes in 19 minutes
    Vujacic’s 6 points on 3 shots. 2 assists and 2 steals in 11 minutes

  83. Funny you don’t hear much griping about Rose anymore

    Well not in this game thread, because he had a great game, but he’s been pretty bad on the season.

  84. Wolves seem to be a classic example of a team full of captains without foot soldiers. Lots of young offensive talent used to dominating in college, Europe, etc. not used to taking a backseat and putting aside their individual egos.

  85. I think calling Rose “bad” is an overstatement. Inconsistent, definitely. Overpaid, definitely. Irreverent, maybe. But not bad.

  86. 7-3 our last 10 games and we can clearly play better basketball. Our starting center hasn’t even really impacted this team yet.

    Utah, OKC, charlotte and Toronto were all VERY winnable games. I’d throw in Detroit at Detroit too.

    Gotta get this next one though cause miami at Miami and Cleveland are NOT gonna be easy.

  87. Rose has definitely been bad and that’s mainly due to the turnovers and scoring efficiency. If he can average 16, 5, and 5 on say a .540 TS% and keep the TOV/36 under 2 we’ll have a good point guard on our hands.

    Fingers crossed his health is back and he’ll get better as the season progresses. He’s looking like he can play 70 games this season.

  88. @201, that’s a lot to ask. Those stats would have made him a top-5-10 PG last year. He has NOT been bad.

  89. @200 –
    And after right after Cleveland, which is on the back-end of a back-to-back, we fly out for a 5-game west coast swing vs the Kings, Lakers, Suns, Warriors and Nuggets.

  90. @204 –
    I agree. Rose has not been bad. But that doesn’t mean he’s been perfect, or good. He does not pass enough. I want to see him get at least 1 more assist per quarter.

  91. Gotta get this next one though cause miami at Miami and Cleveland are NOT gonna be easy

    Miami is not good. 2-7 at home.

  92. @206 agreed, I would never re-sign him, but he’s been instrumental in a bunch of our games. We need to be fir.

  93. Rose is starting to hit some jumpers and is finally getting a few whistles.

    If he keeps this shot distribution up is he’ll have a chance to be a darn good basketball player.

  94. I don’t think the Knicks will resign Rose, and obviously they shouldn’t at anywhere near the level he’ll initially be seeking. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a very good player this year, and by that I mean he can approach being a top 10 PG.

  95. Jeff Hornacek is a smart coach with a decent game plan but he’s got to get the defense together. I’m tired of seeing teams score 100 points

  96. It’s not just a Noah thing. It’s the second unit. That Jennings/Hernangomez combination either starts a run for us or it starts a run for the other team.

  97. If Rose keeps playing like this game, and not the last game he played, he’d be a solid offensive player who still played shit defense. That’s something you can live with, but it’s not good.

  98. I love beating Minnesota. They piss me off for how shitty they are handling Towns. They are such a poorly run team. How do you take a step back after replacing Sam Mitchell? Mitchell was ridiculously bad last season, but he at least seemed to have a laissez faire approach with Towns, which worked well. It’s hard to give him too much credit when his approach literally was, “Do nothing and presume that the super-talented star player will figure things out,” but it’s better than this turd of a team. I haven’t seen an overall collection of talent handled this poorly since…hmmmm….maybe the STAT Suns pre-D’Antoni? I am rooting against this team big time and was thrilled to see the Knicks sweep them.

    I mean, I’d be thrilled with a Knicks sweep either way, but it was extra special when it made the Wolves look so bad. Screw the Wolves.

  99. I haven’t seen an overall collection of talent handled this poorly since…hmmmm….maybe the STAT Suns pre-D’Antoni?

    Its why he’s coming to NYC to play with KP one day.

  100. Nice win on a back to back no less. Not to nit pick but KP should not be out rebounded by Holiday.

  101. Really don’t get why people have completely ruled out bringing back Rose. We’re 19 games in. Just let it play out and evaluate at the end of the season. Athletically, he looks pretty damn spry right now. If the medical staff, after a year of working with him and more intimate knowledge than us, gives him the ok then I have zero issue signing him to a fair and reasonable contract.

    The Justin Holiday throw in looks like such a steal on nights like tonight.

    Was not a throw in. He’s a player they targeted as Hornacek stated publicly after the trade, but for some reason has been dismissed by people.

  102. then I have zero issue signing him to a fair and reasonable contract.

    Define “fair and reasonable.”

  103. Because Rose hasn’t been good and he has a terrible injury history. Even if he starts playing much better resigning him seems like a pointless risk

    Ruru, he’s a key cog for one of the NBAs worst defenses. His defensive box plus minus says he’s playing shit defense. Is that stat only reliable when it says good things about Knicks?

  104. @BC

    Could you elaborate on what specifically you don’t like about how Thibs has handled these young guys? I kind of agree, but curious to hear your take.

    Re: Mitchell

    I actually think he got a bad rap last year. The guy is a surly dick which does him no favors in establishing a lasting relationship with his players or the media, but I thought he got shit on unnecessarily. It seemed to me he gave Lavine experience at point to improve his decision making and ball handling, which to some degree has improved a lot. He didn’t have Wiggins and Rubio launching treys because they aren’t particularly good perimeter shooters and Lavine wasn’t for awhile until he improved his shot choice under Mitchell.

    He did have them leading the league in ORtg after the ASB last season. Moving on from him for Thibs was fine, I just felt like he didn’t do as bad a job as was made out.

  105. It’s funny, I was actually going to mention that the one area where I actually did like Mitchell was how he handled Lavine! :)

  106. Define “fair and reasonable.”

    I mean it depends on how he plays over a full 82 and hopefully some bonus ball too. I’m not committed to bringing him back, I just wouldn’t preclude it. I wouldn’t go more than 3 years though no matter what so that you’d get him off the books at age 31 and in the same summer when Noah and Lee’s contracts expire.

  107. @Lavor

    I am with you. I am not one way or the other. He’s not the prototypical PG I prefer for this offense, but I can see the positive function he plays on this team. The advanced metrics many here post about him make it seem like he’s not worth the trouble, but I need to weigh that against what resigning him would take. I don’t think Rose will settle and take a three year deal. He’s about cashing in after a healthy season.

  108. @Ras

    Yeah, that’s how I see it. I’m not so sure there’s going to be a huge market for Rose though. I think everybody has the same concerns as we do about his health, so it’s very possible he won’t have as many suitors as might be the case otherwise. I also think, for better or worse, having Noah around and the fact that the Knicks did show they wanted him by trading for him buys them a little credit.

    I genuinely believe Rose is enjoying playing in New York at MSG. It’s a stage and spotlight that many shrivel under, but he really seems to be enjoying it, regardless of how anybody feels about his actual level of play.

  109. Wolves seem to be a classic example of a team full of captains without foot soldiers. Lots of young offensive talent used to dominating in college, Europe, etc. not used to taking a backseat and putting aside their individual egos.

    You know Wiggins has 8 steals in 656 minutes, right? And he’s close to the league lead in both 2PA and 2P missed. The guy is typical “bad” volume shooter. Has nothing to do with ego. He’s always been like this.

    Also Ricky Rubio can’t shoot, Kris Dunn can’t shoot, and Shabazz Muhammed can’t shoot. You could also spin the narrative as “the Wolves have lots of guys who were overrated as draft prospects, and now everyone just says they’re underperforming instead of saying that it was wrong to assess them as ‘future stars.'”

  110. Out of the 91 players who have played 500 minutes, Wiggins is 89th in STL/36. Not even ruru could spin that.

  111. @Jowles

    The most annoying thing with Wiggins is his passing. I’ve watched enough Wolves games this year where I’ve seen him throw some really slick looks crosscourt to open shooters out of PNR, but he seems so much more content to just come off the pick and take a mid-range look instead.

    If there is some kind of coaching issue that’s holding him back to some degree this year, it’s probably that he isn’t getting as many post ups, an area where he is really good and allows the Wolves to space the floor with their actual good shooters like Towns and Lavine. Rubio’s complete inability to shoot and play off the ball hurts a lot too with what Thibs is trying to do offensively by putting Towns and Wiggins is into more situations where they have to make plays rather than letting Rubio do a lion’s share of that work.

  112. You could also spin the narrative as “the Wolves have lots of guys who were overrated as draft prospects, and now everyone just says they’re underperforming instead of saying that it was wrong to assess them as ‘future stars.’”

    Its all part of the same problem – draft stars falling in love with their own hype. You would think guys like Wiggins or Levine would work on their defense, work at getting the ball to open men on offense, etc. They don’t. Only guy I see there holding himself accountable for the loses on that team is Towns. That’s a legitimate problem.

  113. it’s probably that he isn’t getting as many post ups, an area where he is really good and allows the Wolves to space the floor with their actual good shooters like Towns and Lavine.

    Now you’re reminding me of one of my biggest Mitchell gripes from last year. Injuries forced them to use Wiggins in the post a bit and he was GREAT at it. So they then went away from it the rest of the season and he went right back to jacking up long twos.

  114. Wiggins is too busy trying to be a scoring champion and Levine wants to be slam dunk champion while they should work on learning nuances of what it takes to win in the NBA. Rubio, himself a Euroleague star in La Liga when he was 20, has played for years in this league and still can’t shoot his way out of a paper bag even when defenders like Brandon Jennings leave give him a wide birth.

    All captains who don’t want to be foot soldiers.

  115. Injuries forced them to use Wiggins in the post a bit and he was GREAT at it. So they then went away from it the rest of the season and he went right back to jacking up long twos.

    Ah! I didn’t know that. Now that’s a legitimate gripe.

    Thibs seems pretty focused on the bigs always playing low or used strictly as screen setters higher up the floor in DHO or PNR to free up one of the guards/wings. I think that’s a huge problem, because he’s just refusing to use the main aspect of Wiggins’ game that is exceptional and where he draws a shit ton of fouls, which in turn helps the rest of the team as they get into the penalty fast.

    Idk, I still have some faith in Thibs, but the criticisms of his lack of offensive innovation and acumen seems increasingly valid.

  116. The Wolves are going to figure it out at some point this year. Thibs will make it happen, and when it happens it’ll be a sight.

    Yes, Wiggins is a horrible decision-maker and it’s foolish to run so much offense through him. They need play MUCH faster and let Rubio do his thing.

    I think they’ll make a run at .500.

  117. As per espn, they’re suggesting that we extend rose. If ever we will resign or extend rose is it a good decision and how much?

    With the overall overprice signing a discount drose could be an option but I doubt it. Phil should be smart with regards to our future pg vacancy.

  118. I want to see andrew Wiggins in spurs uniform.
    He’s like Aldridge who is negative in almost all aspect but with the spurs he looks like a good signing.
    Kawhi and Wiggins at the wing is interesting.

  119. The Wolves just need a Lowry to turn Wiggins and LaVine into DeRozan and Ross. I’d take LaVine on the Knicks right now. Dude is not even 22 yet let him and Wiggins develop a little bit.

  120. Idk, I still have some faith in Thibs, but the criticisms of his lack of offensive innovation and acumen seems increasingly valid.

    I totally still have faith in Thibs. He’s a damn sight smarter than Mitchell and system coaches sometimes take a longer time for teams to adjust, but at the same time, sometimes even great coaches fail to synch with certain teams. Rudy T, for instance, was awful in Los Angeles after being great in Houston for years.

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