Knicks Morning News (2016.12.16)

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks put up fight against Warriors without Melo, Rose, but fall 103-90
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 1:33:41 AM)

    Klay Thompson scored 25 points, JaVale McGee added a season-best 17, and the Golden State Warriors put on an another spectacular passing display to beat the undermanned New York Knicks 103-90 on Thursday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony, Rose out for Thursday’s game against Warriors
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:05:17 PM)

    Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony and guard Derrick Rose will both sit for tonight’s game against the Golden State Warriors.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis thinks he can help recruit free agents to the Knicks
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 3:30:54 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis thinks he can help recruit free agents to the Knicks

  • [SNY Knicks] Don’t expect Phil Jackson to leave Knicks any time soon
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:00:47 PM)

    Knicks president Phil Jackson has settled into his life away from Los Angeles and his competitive fire is lit.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony on players skipping games: ‘I think everyone needs a rest day’
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:08:00 AM)

    New York Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony empathized with NBA players skipping games and road trips to get some rest, adding he may take a game to rest in the near future.

  • [NYTimes] They Paid to See LeBron James. They Got Kay Felder.
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 3:24:02 PM)

    The Cleveland Cavaliers rested their three best players — LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love — in their only road trip of the season to Memphis.

  • [NYTimes] Craig Sager, Colorful N.B.A. Sideline Reporter, Dies at 65
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:28:46 PM)

    Mr. Sager was known as much for his outlandish outfits as for his brief interviews with basketball coaches and players on N.B.A. broadcasts.

  • [NYTimes] Warriors 103, Knicks 90: Missing an Ailing Carmelo Anthony, Knicks Prove Easy Prey for Warriors
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 7:56:55 AM)

    Anthony, nursing a sore shoulder, said he felt that he should play it safe.

  • [NYPost] Knicks’ call to rest Carmelo the right move, but it doesn’t feel that way
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:00:40 PM)

    OAKLAND, Calif. — The Knicks certainly weren’t going to walk into Oracle Arena and win this game absent Derrick Rose and Carmelo Anthony. They probably wouldn’t have won with Rose and Anthony (or with Clyde and Pearl, too, for that matter), not with the Warriors devoting so much of the night to an impromptu homage…

  • [NYPost] Melo-less Knicks never had a chance, but Steve Kerr still unhappy
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 8:15:10 PM)

    OAKLAND, Calif. — No Carmelo Anthony. No Derrick Rose. No sufficient pregame warmups. No chance for the Knicks at Oracle Arena. With the Knicks missing two of their Big 3, the team bus arrived late for their predictable rout versus the Warriors, with most players entering the locker room 45 minutes before tip-off after a…

  • [NYPost] Kevin Durant now praises the Knicks he couldn’t bother with
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 12:45:48 PM)

    OAKLAND, Calif. – Kevin Durant says he enjoys being the one to nickname Kristaps Porzingis “unicorn,’’ but that didn’t mean he wanted to suit up next to him. Reflecting on why he didn’t meet with the Knicks during his free-agency summit in the Hamptons, Durant simply said: “Uh, because I didn’t want to. It’s simple….

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony’s ‘bruised shoulder’ needed a break
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:16:40 AM)

    OAKLAND, Calif. — Carmelo Anthony’s right shoulder has been acting up the past two games, the Knicks star said, leading him to take a rest day against the Warriors on Thursday night. Derrick Rose also sat out with back spasms against the league’s best team, which topped the Knicks 103-90 to move to 23-4. Adding…

  • [NYPost] How to beat the Warriors? Have everyone play perfect, then hope
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 6:27:47 AM)

    SAN FRANCISCO — The Warriors have not disappointed. They have put the super in “superteam” — off to an NBA-best 22-4 record going into Thursday’s nationally televised visit from the Knicks. “You got to be at full force,’’ Carmelo Anthony said when asked how to beat them. “You got to have everything clicking. I think…

  • [ESPN] Friday’s Knicks News: Warriors have easy time with Melo, Rose out
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 4:06:24 AM)

    Friday’s Knicks News: Warriors have easy time with Melo, Rose out

  • [ESPN] Draymond Green riled up by Kristaps Porzingis’ comments
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 2:59:28 AM)

    Draymond Green riled up by Kristaps Porzingis’ comments

  • [ESPN] Warriors showcase giving ways in blowout of short-handed Knicks
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 1:27:06 AM)

    Warriors showcase giving ways in blowout of short-handed Knicks

  • [ESPN] Knicks’ Rose, Anthony to sit out vs. Warriors
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 4:04:23 PM)

    Knicks’ Rose, Anthony to sit out vs. Warriors

  • [ESPN] Rival execs: Kristaps Porzingis can lure top free agents to Knicks
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:40:12 AM)

    Rival execs: Kristaps Porzingis can lure top free agents to Knicks

  • [ESPN] Thursday’s Knicks News: Porzingis plans to recruit free agents to New York
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 6:13:15 AM)

    Thursday’s Knicks News: Porzingis plans to recruit free agents to New York

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks fall to Warriors without Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose
    (Friday, December 16, 2016 2:18:24 AM)

    The Knicks, who had a tall task in upsetting Golden State at full strength, had little chance with Lance Thomas and Brandon Jennings in the starting lineup instead of Anthony and Rose and suffered a predictable 103-90 defeat.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony misses game vs. Warriors with shoulder soreness
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:23:00 PM)

    The issue of NBA coaches resting their star players took center stage again this week when Cavaliers coach Tyronn Lue did not even bring LeBron James, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love to Wednesday night’s game in Memphis against the Grizzlies.

  • [NY Newsday] Derrick Rose out for Knicks against Warriors
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 7:52:00 PM)

    The Knicks will face the powerhouse Warriors on Thursday night without Derrick Rose, who is out with lower back stiffness.

  • [NYDN] Knicks arrive late to arena, fall to Warriors, 103-90
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 9:14:22 PM)

    The Knicks arrived late to the arena because they were stuck in traffic. But they might as well just driven straight to Denver.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose out for game vs. Warriors
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 5:58:33 PM)

    Derrick Rose (sore back) and Carmelo Anthony (sore right shoulder) were ruled out of Thursday night’s game against the Warriors.

  • [NYDN] Why Kevin Durant rejected meeting with Knicks during free agency
    (Thursday, December 15, 2016 11:23:08 AM)

    Kevin Durant was stationed in the Hamptons over the summer during his free agent meetings, less than 100 miles from the Garden.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    108 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.12.16)”

    1. I had a pretty cool experience last night (obviously I didn’t watch the Knicks game). I don’t know how many of you are old enough to remember the name Carol Blazejowski (known in her playing days as “Blaze”) but, in the late ’70’s, she was the female Pete Maravich. She led Montclair State to the women’s final four and scored over 3,000 points in her college career. She’s in the Basketball Hall of Fame. She is now 60 years old and still involved in the game — refereeing girls youth basketball games. I coach my daughter’s 8th grade travel team and, last night, she was one of our refs. After the game, she talked to our girls for a few minutes. Obviously, they didn’t realize who she was, but I plan on going on line with my daughter tonight to show her. I grew up reading about her exploits and I thought that it was great that, even with all of her achievements, she still gets enjoyment out of the game refereeing kids’ games.

    2. Getting hammered on the boards every night is becoming a disturbing trend. Good effort last night against a very talented team. Brilliant decision to rest Rose and Melo, better to let them heal and be ready to go for the upcoming games. Hornacek proving to be a huge upgrade again.

    3. Hornacek proving to be a huge upgrade again.

      I agree. Hornacek has the team playing as well as could be reasonably expected. Even a bit better.

      Last night there was effort to the end. Not a bad loss at all. Glad to have an opportunity to root for the young players.

    4. Excited to see Baker flourishing at point. If he can play like that consistently the 3rd pg question is answered. Wish we had him on a multi year contract like the rest of the young’ns.

    5. I had a pretty cool experience last night (obviously I didn’t watch the Knicks game). I don’t know how many of you are old enough to remember the name Carol Blazejowski (known in her playing days as “Blaze”) but, in the late ’70’s, she was the female Pete Maravich. She led Montclair State to the women’s final four and scored over 3,000 points in her college career. She’s in the Basketball Hall of Fame. She is now 60 years old and still involved in the game — refereeing girls youth basketball games. I coach my daughter’s 8th grade travel team and, last night, she was one of our refs. After the game, she talked to our girls for a few minutes. Obviously, they didn’t realize who she was, but I plan on going on line with my daughter tonight to show her. I grew up reading about her exploits and I thought that it was great that, even with all of her achievements, she still gets enjoyment out of the game refereeing kids’ games.

      That’s awesome. I’m glad that you got to see that but I’m even more glad that your daughter got to experience that.

    6. I liked the game overall last night, even if we were manhandled by a team that was clearly half-assing it, but the game also showed that Jo Noah and a Thomas are bad, redundant, and need to be traded. Noah’s contract will be an albatross and Thomas’ is low enough in absolute dollars to not do too much damage but is still literally just throwing money out the window.

      Loved Baker, Billy, and Holiday’s game last night.

      Draymond Green is really the worst kind of player matchup for a young guy like KP. He’s like a taller, stronger Marcus Smart on steroids.

    7. I have to agree, Hornacek seems like a good coach and that counts for something after the Woodson experience. Although the post-game doesn’t provide quite as much fodder for the comics.

      Other than that, a quick scan of the box scores tell me to expect a lot of Ron Baker and Dewayne Dedmon comments….

    8. I just looked at Hernangomez’s season stats and he actually Has a positive DBPM and a negative OBPM on the season. Probably because you can’t turn the ball over on defense, heh. Still strange to see. He’s real promising though, and complements KP’s game really nicely.

    9. It baffles me that a player who looks as smooth and canny on offense as Wily can turn the ball over as much as he has. Hopefully it’s some kind of aberration.

      BTW, I chuckled at the Kumiko comment.

    10. Could it be the case that Hornacek was actually a better hire than Thibs or Walton? We can only hope, though Walton has a bad Lakers team playing a bit above their pay grade.

      Thibs is still doing Thibs things but the defense over in Minne sucks.

    11. I would hate to hear Thibs barking at his players every play all game long. Really annoying during the Minny games.

    12. No offense to Hornacek at all, as he’s been great, but I think that there are actually a bunch of coaches who could do a good job with this team if they were given the same freedom that Hornacek has been given. The problem with the Knick coaching job for the past couple of years is that you were always going to be micro-managed and forced to play a specific style of basketball. Few coaches can succeed with those restrictions. With them being gone, I think both Walton and Thibs would have been fine here. But Hornacek has been great, so I don’t say that in a sense of, “Oh man, I wish we had Walton or Thibs here over Hornacek!” but just a general note that I think that they would have been good here, as well. I’m very happy with Hornacek, though. I don’t want this to be read as a shot at him at all.

      This roster is really a dream roster for Thibs, by the way. So many veterans! :)

    13. David West has a bad hip for the Warriors. I’d sure like to give them a gift of Noah for the Holidays.

    14. I think we found our 3rd point guard last night (maybe our future starter) and his name is Ron Baker. He played very well against the Warriors shooting six for seven and was a +8 for his second straight game.

    15. I did not get to watch the game but that is great about Baker. Come trade deadline does this mean Sasha is possibly on the block? Not that we would get that much for him but he’s been decent now since the end of last season and a playoff team looking to shore up their guard reserves might give us a 2nd rounder for him?

      Goal number one needs to be trading Lance. Not because he’s the worst player on our team but with Kuz he is no longer really needed and I’d rather put my future eggs in the Kuz basket. They’re about the same age but Kuz is better on offense and I think his euro style means he can be a good role player for us. A team might take a bite on LT and that would free up 7 million for the next few years. Definitely would be nice.

      Then we need to figure out a way to get rid of Noah. Even if he isn’t washed up and gets better, I just don’t see a need for him. He’s a luxury and if we want a tough center who can’t shoot but can defend and rebound we can get one for way less on the open market. I hope he can bounce back and we can trade him to the TWOLVES. That would be ideal. If we could get rid of LT and Noah’s contracts I would be very optimistic about our future even with Melo on the decline.

    16. It’s funny how when you play your rookies, you might find something good about them. Weird, huh?

      It’s almost like… the team could be better… if it had more young players… almost…

    17. We have a lot of good young players, though. And good veteran players.
      KP, Willy, Baker could form the nucleus of a superteam going forward.

    18. I watched the first half before nodding off.
      We missed a zillion easy shots. Noah alone missed about 5 layups before the half.
      Baker looked good. He broke down the GS defense with his drives and was a general pest on defense.
      KP, Lee and Thomas were a combined 8 for 33. Yeah, that’s not going to do it against GS.
      I wish that Horny had rested KP too.

    19. Lance Thomas missed a lot of wide open shots too. If Noah and Lance had made half of them we might have lost by less. Lol!

    20. Jowles I’m not really sure the sarcastic post is necessary. Hornaceck isn’t Woodson or dantoni. He’s played Willie and Ndour and Kuz pretty much right away out of the gate. I guess you could say he should be playing Ron over Sasha from the get go but less than 30 games into his rookie season as an undrafted player and he’s now playing in the last 2 games.

      Hornaceck in my eyes seems to be doing a good job of developing and playing the younger guys while also still playing the vets who are more likely to win us games. He seems to have gotten through to KQ too. What is the problem?

    21. Noah really should have had a good night on offense last night. He got offensive rebounds, he got to the rim repeatedly, and then he missed like every fucking layup. It’s really amazing how inept he is at putting the ball through the hoop.

      Edit: I think some people were fighting about Noah’s TS% being relatively high a few game back? Now it is not.

    22. Unathletic guards are a problem for NYK.

      The perimeter guys can’t contain penetration and don’t generate turnovers, and the bigs end up fouling a lot to paper over the mistakes. It doesn’t seem like a very solvable problem because the Knicks just don’t have strong, athletic guards. Rose, Lee and Jennings are not disruptive defenders and Holiday is decent but not great.

    23. Two thoughts from last nights game:

      1) Ron seems like a solid defender. If he can make open shots he could be a useful player for us. I’d say his cieling is something like a Dellavadova-lite. I hope we give him more run.

      2) Noah is a mess. I went back and watched some of his Bulls highlights and he doesn’t look like the same guy at all. He looks heavy to me, out of shape, no lift, and worst no confidence in his offense. I’m not sure what I would do about him, it’s a really big problem.

      Old Noah highlights below:
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ynm7yarmUUI

    24. He got offensive rebounds, he got to the rim repeatedly, and then he missed like every fucking layup.

      The scary thing is some of those misses were rockets off of the backboard, like they had no chance of going in. He looked like one of those guys you play pick up ball with who scraps for loose balls and grabs every rebound but can’t score to save his life.

    25. Hey guys. I was at the game, twenty rows up on the sideline, had a great view of the action. Not sure what you all saw on TV, but Baker had tons of problems defensively, not just on the ball, but especially working his way through picks, following his guy on cuts and on rotations. There was just so much confusion when he was involved in the off-ball action, and it cascaded from there. Someone on the Warriors was W I D E open on every possession, and you could see the collective confusion that made it happen – and it usually started with Baker having to make a choice.

      Not saying that’s not correctable, and he can fix that through reps, but he has a LONG way to go to become average on that end of the court.

      (He also wasn’t the only one, either. Porzingis seemed lost on the perimeter, and Kuzmingis’ lack of speed is disheartening, and that all caused major problems, even against a Warriors team that was clearly half-assing it).

    26. The thing is you can probably live without the offense from Noah but he’s supposed to be a great defender. If he’s not going to be a significantly better defender than Willy, why should he get minutes?

    27. netw3rk had a great tweet about Noah last night:

      @netw3rk: Noah could be physically inside the basket and miss

      Seriously – Noah should try and dunk everything. he literally cannot hit a layup, and like d-mar said, some of the misses looked like something you’d see in a 4th grade game, not from a professional athlete. And he needs to shoot free throws underhanded. it cannot be worse than what it is now, both from an efficacy and aesthetic standpoint.

      I’ve been pretty high on Hornacek and have been happy to see him bench guys when they’re not playing well and don’t deserve to stay on the court. He needs to sit Noah, or at the very least, give him bench player minutes (15 minutes max) rather than 22+.

      Big game tomorrow night. A 3-2 west coast road trip would be great, but losing 3 in a row after a 2-0 start would be pretty disheartening.

    28. I have noticed that Noah is at least attempting shots now to keep the defense honest. This must be what Horny wants

    29. steveoh was that you I saw? You know, the good looking guy?

      Baker was a plus 8 and we all know that stats don’t lie.

    30. Nice to root for our young players – but only Porzingis looks like a legit NBA-starter candidate right now. Every other player on the roster (including veterans and pseudo-stars) should be available for trade if the right opportunity comes along.

      We really need to gamble building the team around Porzingis.

    31. I am interested to get a better evaluation of Baker’s defense. When I have seen him he has looked surprisingly decent and he wouldn’t be the first perimeter defender to look bad against the Dubs.

      Noah does look awful but I am willing to give him another 20 games. Hard to watch though, I love him as a personality but he just looks old out there.

    32. Baker was a plus 8. Livingston, the guy he was guarding, was a minus 7.

      His defense looked fine to me and I love how he was attacking the rim.

    33. @38 – Owen, I’m with you on Noah. He’s a different player right now. There’s no explanation for why he can’t hit layups and foul shots. Something’s wrong and maybe he’ll just snap out of it.

      This was Baker’s 4th appearance where he played in 10 or more minutes. In fact, his 23 minutes were a career high. He’s raw but he has intangibles. When I look at a guy like Baker I don’t appraise him for what he is today, I look to see what he can be. He’s fast enough. He has a good outside shot. He shares the ball, he plays with fire. This was good experience for him.

    34. Baker’s defense was good last night. He got beat a couple of times on pull-up jumpers by the 6’8″ Shaun Livingston, but you can live with that.

      He’s got good size, moves his feet well and generally seems to have a good understanding of where to be and when.

    35. had a chance to watch the game after reading all the comments…i was expecting baker to look really awesome…he looked pretty shaky at times (only two turnovers though) and got “lost” on defense a few times…really nice to see him penetrate and he looks like he has a penchant for throwing some of those jennings “did you see that” type passes…

      great to see sasha only got two minutes – hopefully that’s how horny will manage it going forward…more than anything – it just looks like baker needs more time on the court…

      oh yeah, big plus for baker – he kinda looks like he-man…

    36. Baker will be a new Hornacek I believe. I see similarities in their shot, in their defensive tenacity, smarts and in their heart.

    37. Lowe and Amin El Hassan talk for maybe 10 minutes about the Knicks and whether they’re for real on the latest Lowe Post… Conclusion seems to be that they’re not because their point differential is so awful and because, according to Lowe, they’re getting lucky with bench production and that productivity is likely to get worse. Lowe thought before the season the Knicks weren’t a playoff team and now thinks they have a chance to win 40 or so games and make the playoffs. El Hassan thinks they won’t make the playoffs.

    38. Theo your Melo suggestion shows a severe lack of understanding of how the NBA works and work relationships in general.

      If horns did that you could kiss any free agent veteran coming here goodbye forever. No veteran and especially no star would sign with the Knicks knowing that they benched their franchise player just to run him out of town. Hell it could make KP want to leave the Knicks as soon as he could bc what if that happened to him? You can’t just throw dudes under the bus like that.

    39. Lowe and Amin El Hassan talk for maybe 10 minutes about the Knicks and whether they’re for real on the latest Lowe Post… Conclusion seems to be that they’re not because their point differential is so awful and because, according to Lowe, they’re getting lucky with bench production and that productivity is likely to get worse. Lowe thought before the season the Knicks weren’t a playoff team and now thinks they have a chance to win 40 or so games and make the playoffs. El Hassan thinks they won’t make the playoffs.

      Did they provide any kind of rigorous analysis of that point differential or was it just fake statistics, manipulated into anything that that pessimistic asshole wants it to be?

    40. Baker hit shots but still doesn’t look like a point guard at all- he struggles to make simple entry passes. He got to the rim but the Warriors weren’t exactly going all out defensively. Still, a nice showing- if he can shoot like that (not 6-7 but post a solid TS%) he could be a rotation guy. He was really helped by Holiday who was all over the place defensively (almost like he knew what they were running) and got them out into transition with a bunch of steals and deflections.
      Watching Noah was depressing but you can see that if he could just start finishing a little bit around the basket he’d still be a valuable guy- he’s not the defender he once was but he’s still pretty good on that end and while he destroys spacing, his passing and offensive rebounding are still excellent. But it’s all moot if he can’t hit a layup or a free throw.

    41. – Noah: played 4 games after 12/21/15 with the Bulls, let’s give him more than 22 games. It’s been only 2 years since he was DPOY. He’s never been a shooter, and his offensive rebounds are around his avg. If you’re a stathead, get a larger sample size. If you’re an eye-test-head, he looks gassed and not in shape.

      – Theo: Making your ‘star’ beg for a trade by benching him is one of the worst ways to go about whatever you want to do.

      – Ron: Looks smart, energetic, and oft-confused. All will get better with time. How come we only compare white dudes to white dudes?

    42. I really think still having our picks the next few years is HUGE. Any hopes of being a top team with KP at the helm depend greatly on good picks in the next few years (see: Spurs, Warriors, OKC). Not having a top pick < picking well

    43. Imagine adding a KP or a Willy or a Ron every year from now on. Stealing an O’Quinn or a Holiday in a trade.
      And yes, paying for veteran leadership as well. This sounds like a winning formula to me.

    44. wetbandit: Not having a top pick < picking well

      Is this a choice? how about picking well and having a top pick? If you’re top 5, you have probably about a 30% chance of drafting a star. If you’re bottom 20, your odds are more like 5%. Gotta be quite the genius to overcome that difference and quite the arrogant schmuck to put yourself in a position where you have to… I.e. if you push an aging team with a ceiling of second round in the playoffs to win as many games as possible.

    45. Theo your Melo suggestion shows a severe lack of understanding of how the NBA works and work relationships in general.

      If horns did that you could kiss any free agent veteran coming here goodbye forever. No veteran and especially no star would sign with the Knicks knowing that they benched their franchise player just to run him out of town.

      That silly myth/argument, endlessly repeated by gullible fans, was debunked by Melo himself (and every other free agent that came to the Knicks since) after Dantoni and Dolan did far worse to Stephon Marbury.

      Memories are pretty short…

    46. I dunno, latke, plenty of good teams have done it. Also, player development may be more important than we think. Look at the past ten drafts, and you’ll see the same teams picking ‘well’ without top picks. It’s a combination of scouting and development.

    47. Baker understands defensive positioning and spacing. He has a great shot and is tough as nails. He outplayed Steph Curry and Livingston. Our future is bright.

    48. @50 – Yes. Having our picks is huge. We don’t have our 2020 and 2021 second round picks. But if all goes well, those picks will be around 50-60. Hopefully 60 ;) And credit goes to Phil Jackson.

    49. @wetbandit

      I suspect player development is huge especially when you’re drafting 19 or 20 year olds. These are kids, so the psychological and physical work you do with them is huge. The psychological aspect especially seems crucial — “Here is the role we have for you. We will let you play through your mistakes. We believe you are not just a part of this franchise’s future but we see you as part of the core of a title contender.” If you as the coach and the front office can say that stuff with a straight face and follow through, to me that’s huge. I don’t think the Knicks are really set up to create that kind of environment though.

      In any case, again, we’re not talking about an either or thing. You can scout and develop well while getting a high pick.

    50. Baker reminds me a bit of Galloway to be honest. Like nicos said, I don’t think he’s really a PG (doesn’t seem to have the vision or the quickness), and while he’s a bit undersized to be a traditional 2, he has the wingspan to make up for it. He doesn’t seem to have anything that he’s going to be able to do at an above-average NBA level, but does a lot of things at a decent level (particularly for a rookie). Seems like a guy who’s going to have an NBA career, but I would be surprised if he ever breaks through as a starter.

    51. Theo – Every sane human on this planet understood why Marbury was treated the way he was. The man went off the deep end. He was malignant. Melo is a fine, upstanding citizen, one of the best players on this team and in the league and he’s respected by his peers. Thank god you’re not the GM. We would all be calling for your blood.

      If you wonder what makes me say what I said about Marbury, Check this out

    52. Then I guess I’m insane, as I thought what D’Antoni did to Marbury was super dickish. You tell the guy, “Okay, you’re not the starter any more. You are going to play behind Chris freakin’ Duhon and Jamal Crawford” and Marbury says okay, shows up all preseason, does the work, performs well in the preseason, doesn’t say a single thing that isn’t just completely “rah rah, go team”, then the day of the first game of the season (heck, I think it was only, like, an hour before game time), you tell Marbury, “Oh, by the way, you won’t be playing tonight or at all for the foreseeable future, just because”?

      That was just douchey by D’Antoni.

    53. @59 He’s like Galloway but I think with a much better 3 point shot and better offensive off the ball movement. And that’s good. He also broke the defense down a few times last night with his dribble.

    54. If you as the coach and the front office can say that stuff with a straight face and follow through, to me that’s huge. I don’t think the Knicks are really set up to create that kind of environment though.

      Really? Have you not seen the recent development of youth on our team? I mean, we even let go some good players.

    55. Baker reminds me a bit of Galloway to be honest. Like nicos said, I don’t think he’s really a PG (doesn’t seem to have the vision or the quickness), and while he’s a bit undersized to be a traditional 2, he has the wingspan to make up for it. He doesn’t seem to have anything that he’s going to be able to do at an above-average NBA level, but does a lot of things at a decent level (particularly for a rookie). Seems like a guy who’s going to have an NBA career, but I would be surprised if he ever breaks through as a starter.

      He’s bigger than Galloway, and I think he’s much more comfortable being a playmaker than Galloway was. I also think he’ll prove to be a better shooter.

      A red flag with Galloway was that even in college he was never better than about 44-45% from 2 point range even while playing in a pretty small conference against inferior competition, and lo and behold, he’s now a 40-42% 2P% guy in the pros which was what really sank his TS (since he’s about a league average 3 point shooter). Kevin Pelton (and others) have used 2P% to help predict how well college players will translate to the pros.

      Baker’s around 50% 2P% in college (also in a small conference) which hopefully bodes well for his ability to score in the pros outside of 3’s.

      I know there are some here who believe in rebounds+steals+blocks as a measure of athleticism, and Baker did reasonably well with this in college with per-40 R/S/B of 6.1, 1.9, 0.6.

    56. oh yeah, big plus for baker – he kinda looks like he-man…

      – Ron: Looks smart, energetic, and oft-confused. All will get better with time. How come we only compare white dudes to white dudes?

      but, i mean he does kind of look like – he-man…i don’t think that’s stereotyping him at all…

    57. The Eastern Conference’s #3-10 seeds right now:

      3 Charlotte 14-12
      4 New York 14-12
      5 Boston 13-12
      6 Chicago 13-12
      7 Detroit 14-13
      8 Milwaukee 12-12
      9 Indiana 13-14
      10 Atlanta 12-13

      Yeesh, what a weird conference.

    58. If you’re an eye-test-head, he looks gassed and not in shape.

      The funny thing is, over the summer there were a few photos floating around on Instagram of Noah looking JACKED. And obviously since “being ripped” and “being in basketball shape” are 2 different things, it just makes you wonder why he didn’t put down the weights and hop on a treadmill at some point.

    59. Baker looks like Peeta from the Hunger Games

      WHAT!!! again with the white guy comparison frank…

      i don’t know, i think maybe he favors jimmy butler – a very little bit…

    60. The funny thing is, over the summer there were a few photos floating around on Instagram of Noah looking JACKED. And obviously since “being ripped” and “being in basketball shape” are 2 different things, it just makes you wonder why he didn’t put down the weights and hop on a treadmill at some point.

      According to Bulls fans Noah always starts the season slow and works himself into shape during the course of the season. His splits are a mixed bag over the years but they claim he always looked a step slow to start the season. He may be officially washed up for all we know but I’d say we give him some more time to get into game shape.

    61. Baker has been pretty bad, but he also looks like someone we should play more if that makes sense. I’d like to see him get some minutes with Rose or Jennings.

    62. The thing is, Theo, we don’t know if dantonis actions had a bad impact on free agency. They very well could have and we don’t k ow bc those players didn’t sign with us. And Melo has far more clout than Marburg ever did. Melo has never been a bad teammate or player for the Knicks. For him to get benched just so we could trade him to wherever bc he has a NTC that we gave him? That seems like a lot of bad press for the Knicks to swallow instead of just going to him privately and asking him to waive the clause for a set list of teams. And I think there are a lot of players out there who would not choose to play for dantoni all other things being equal.

    63. Ron looked terrible even in D league running the point. It wasn’t until we got Chasson that he got to play his natural position at SG.

    64. According to Bulls fans Noah always starts the season slow and works himself into shape during the course of the season.

      Which, if true, is in and of itself a pretty strange habit to maintain.

      “Hey Jo, our money is still working itself into shape, so your paycheck might be a little light the first couple months of the season, but don’t worry, it’ll be the full amount eventually.”

    65. Baker’s a nice pickup by Phil. He shows the potential to be a solid rotation guy at some point, but not really as a one. More of a two or maybe a combo guard.

      Really, adding Willy and Ron is like the Knicks had a 1st and 2nd round pick last year and nailed them both.

    66. And strangely enough a lot of those teams are playing each other tonight

      Like, #3-6 have all lost multiple games in a row. It’s kind of crazy.

    67. @74 I think you mean the Summer League, where nobody knew each other and his teammates were very poor. Btw Randle has been very underwhelming in the DLeague recently.

    68. Anyone else notice that the Knicks are the only team in the E.C. playoff seeding that has a nextive point differential? That stat must be bogus.

    69. @52: theoretically, if we had our first rounders in ’14 and ’16 with the poor W-L records we had, then yes we could have coupled high draft positioning along with picking well.

    70. Cock, how many of those teams have played (Cleveland 2x, Houston, Toronto, and GSW)?

      Aren’t those the top offenses?

      Also throw in the top defense in Utah.

    71. Noah can’t round himself into game shape if he can’t be good enough to stay on the court for more than 20 mins/night…

      Re: Baker his ceiling is as a non-ball dominant PG, someone like Delly or Pat Bev though he likely will never be as good on D as either of those guys. For an unstaffed FA, that’s fine. I agree he should get more run, let’s see what we have.

    72. Btw Randle has been very underwhelming in the DLeague recently.

      He’s playing with the same type of mask that Derrick had last season. Rose had a sub 40 TS% with the mask on.

    73. kevin, Randle’s mask came off a while ago and his shooting actually got worse.

    74. Cock, how many of those teams have played (Cleveland 2x, Houston, Toronto, and GSW)?

      Aren’t those the top offenses?

      Also throw in the top defense in Utah.

      Up until this past game, the Knicks were in the back-half of the NBA in difficulty of schedule. Now they’re #14.

      https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/schedule-strength-by-other

      They haven’t had an easy schedule, certainly, but nor have they had some crazy hard schedule.

    75. Cock, how many of those teams have played (Cleveland 2x, Houston, Toronto, and GSW)?

      Aren’t those the top offenses?

      Also throw in the top defense in Utah.

      Knicks are still 17th in SRS, which accounts for SOS. Are you seriously suggesting that the Knicks are the only team that plays good teams?

    76. Knicks are still 17th in SRS, which accounts for SOS. Are you seriously suggesting that the Knicks are the only team that plays good teams?

      No. the have played the best offenses in the league and have gotten smacked around by them. That’s it. That’s why the differential is so bad. They have bested bad teams by more than 10 a few times but some of these teams beat he Knicks by more than 20. That’s why the numbers are off. Anyone with eyes can see this. You just saying they have a neg differential, like it’s some huge deal is annoying. They are 2 games over .500. Not 20-5

    77. The thing is, Theo, we don’t know if dantonis actions had a bad impact on free agency. They very well could have and we don’t k ow bc those players didn’t sign with us.

      Short memory….

      Stoudemire came here as a free agent. Melo literally forced his way here. Tyson Chandler was more than happy to sign his 58M cobtract. Noah, Rose, Lee just came here. More players didn’t come because the Knicks didn’t have enough cap space.

      If the money is right they will come. That’s all there is to it. Don’t repeat silly myths. If the Knicks move Melo to the second unit, nobody (except him) gives a fvck.

    78. Why are we talking about Baker when Wroten is available? But serious, we should be talking about Willy’s ZERO turnovers in 20+ minutes against an elite defensive team. WH has significantly improved in this area as the season has progressed. In fact, in the month of December, he’s been at an elite level in terms of turnovers. His December rate would have him ranked 5th on Hollinger’s site for qualified centers in this category. His dime and block rates have also improved. He’s now 6th out of 39 in WS/48 in his rookie class (>= 100 minutes played) and will move up higher if those dime/block/turnover rates hold. This guy should be playing at least 20mpg especially when KOQ begins his annual Jan-March swoon and Noah’s ark remains trapped on a reef. And we really should be looking to trade one of Noah/KOQ before their stocks drop. maybe Thibs:Noah::Phil:Vujacic?

    79. Then I guess I’m insane, as I thought what D’Antoni did to Marbury was super dickish. You tell the guy, “Okay, you’re not the starter any more. You are going to play behind Chris freakin’ Duhon and Jamal Crawford” and Marbury says okay, shows up all preseason, does the work, performs well in the preseason, doesn’t say a single thing that isn’t just completely “rah rah, go team”, then the day of the first game of the season (heck, I think it was only, like, an hour before game time), you tell Marbury, “Oh, by the way, you won’t be playing tonight or at all for the foreseeable future, just because”?

      That was just douchey by D’Antoni.

      You’re absolutely right!

      I mentioned the incident as proof that moving Melo to the second unit would not result in NBA players boycotting the team, as some posters naively claim.

    80. That was just douchey by D’Antoni.

      You’re absolutely right!

      I mentioned the incident as proof that moving Melo to the second unit would not result in NBA players boycotting the team, as some posters naively claim.

      There is no way to prove this unless you have player insight. Because a few came doesn’t mean that no one cares. They might have been in a very small minority who didn’t mind. There is no way to know without polling players. Also I would mention that melo is loved around the league. I’m not sure the same can be said for Steph.

    81. wetbandit: Really? Have you not seen the recent development of youth on our team? I mean, we even let go some good players.

      No, I haven’t. How could I? The only player on the Knicks who’s under 25 and was on the team before this year is KP And KP has been like the perfect young player. He’s played really well from the start and so the front office never had a choice to make of “Should we bench him? Should we go with the veteran instead?” If KP had had the rookie year of Westbrook or Parker or Tyson Chandler or Marcus Camby, he would have been traded or relegated to a small, intermittent bench role so the Knicks could scrape out the extra 3-4 wins and move up from 12th to 10th in the eastern conference or whatever. #priorities

      Why? Because the Knicks are full of players who have short windows, and those players make a lot of money. You put some rookie who’s not really contributing out there for real minutes, you are creating conflict. Those guys are gonna be dismissive of the young dude and keep him from getting the kind of minutes he needs to figure shit out.

      I mean, had Noah been having a halfway decent season, we wouldn’t have seen Hernangomez enough to say much about him. Had Lance Thomas been healthy, we wouldn’t have seen Mindaugas (not that he’s young anyway…)

    82. There is no way to prove this unless you have player insight. Because a few came doesn’t mean that no one cares. They might have been in a very small minority who didn’t mind. There is no way to know without polling players. Also I would mention that melo is loved around the league. I’m not sure the same can be said for Steph.

      The burden of proof is on the one making the claim: players wouldn’t come here if they bench Melo.

      I offered a simple, obvious refutation.

      Where is the proof that players would not come here when the only evidence we have points to players of all calibers actually coming here in spite of the nasty things done to Marbury?

    83. The burden of proof is on the one making the claim: players wouldn’t come here if they bench Melo.

      That’s fair. The same can be said for the inverse so why would you tempt it? Like I said there is no way to prove it either way without insight.

    84. Why? Because the Knicks are full of players who have short windows, and those players make a lot of money. You put some rookie who’s not really contributing out there for real minutes, you are creating conflict. Those guys are gonna be dismissive of the young dude and keep him from getting the kind of minutes he needs to figure shit out.

      I mean, had Noah been having a halfway decent season, we wouldn’t have seen Hernangomez enough to say much about him. Had Lance Thomas been healthy, we wouldn’t have seen Mindaugas (not that he’s young anyway…)

      .

      Would Noah be playing 30+ minutes a game even if he was playing halfway decent? I don’t think so. Willy-Billy was going to get minutes regardless.

      I really think some folks forget the end of the ’13-’14 season, in that when you lack draft picks and talent, you have to use creativity and other resources to get players (now here’s where you argue resigning/not resigning/trading Melo – and I say that Jackson was basically using the ONLY resource he had to retain talent at that time: money).

      And as far as the young players and KP: why bitch about what may have happened if xyz, instead of realizing and reveling in what is happening: they’re developing!

    85. why bitch about what may have happened if xyz, instead of realizing and reveling in what is happening: they’re developing!

      Lol. I wish I knew

    86. Where is the proof that players would not come here when the only evidence we have points to players of all calibers actually coming here in spite of the nasty things done to Marbury?

      The league seems to have a short memory, easily overwritten by large amounts of money, unless you call the greatest player in twenty years’s business partners a “posse,” which will probably not lead to bygones being bygones. Something tells me that’s going to stick.

    87. Stefan Bondy of the Daily News posted a small video of Knicks practice today showing Noah and Hornacek playing 1-on-1 and I kid you not Noah missed a hook from like 5 feet and then a layup on back-to-back attempts. He can’t even score against his 6’4, 53 yo head coach.

    88. That’s fair. The same can be said for the inverse so why would you tempt it? Like I said there is no way to prove it either way without insight.

      Well, there *is* ample proof that players kept coming after the nasty Marbury incident. We don’t need ‘insight’ – we just need to be aware of what has actually taken place in the real world.

      Once again, the myth is busted. No need to parrot it anymore.

    89. For the record, though, I don’t think benching Melo would do any good. I think he has more sway than Jackson does. Melo will be here as long as he chooses to be here, while I don’t think the same applies to Jackson.

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