[New York Post] – Sun, 07 Jan 2024 02:40:00 GMT
- Julius Randle, Jalen Brunson dominate woeful Wizards for Knicks’ fourth straight win
- KNICKS at WIZARDS | FULL GAME HIGHLIGHTS | January 6, 2024
- Knicks 121-105 Wizards (Jan 6, 2024) Game Recap
- Tom Thibodeau’s tirade wakes up Knicks in win: ‘You don’t want to know
- Scenes from the Knicks playing with their food
[New York Post] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 12:30:00 GMT
- 76ers’ Tyrese Maxey happy Knicks traded buddy Immanuel Quickley
- Tyrese Maxey on Immanuel Quickley: ‘He’ll make a lot of money’
- 76ers’ Tyrese Maxey: Immanuel Quickley to Get Big Contract After Knicks-Raptors Trade
- Immanuel Quickley praised Darko Rajakovic for spurring him to have fun
- After three years with the New York Knicks, the Toronto Raptors created a new environment for Immanu
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 17:36:43 GMT
- Knicks Land RJ Barrett Replacement in 2024 Mock Draft
- New York Knicks Land Austin Reaves Comparison in Mock Draft
[New York Post] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 07:31:00 GMT
- Miles McBride puts on 3-point shooting show in Knicks’ victory
- 3 observations after Sixers get blitzed by Knicks, lose by 36 points
- Knicks 128, 76ers 92: This was brutal
- Instant observations: Sixers dominated by new-look Knicks
- Knicks embarrass 76ers behind Jalen Brunson’s 30 points in wire-to-wire statement win
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 18:20:33 GMT
Knicks G Leaguer Signs with Lakers After Record-Setting Performance
[Daily Knicks] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 15:00:00 GMT
When is the NBA trade deadline?
[Heavy.com] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 22:25:23 GMT
Knicks Increasingly Mentioned as Team With Interest in 2-Way Star: Insider
[New York Post] – Sat, 06 Jan 2024 16:26:00 GMT
Hubie Brown talks coaching Knicks with Rick Pitino, broadcasting NBA games at 90
127 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.01.07)”
It’s interesting reading the Washington Pist article that Raven quoted yesterday. The nub of the article is that the Wizards lost to a good team that isn’t built around a superstar fortunately acquired through the draft or a spend-it-al trade, but instead is composed of players that were probably available to other teams but didn’t spark much interest around the league. They were wondering why the wizards couldn’t have acquired players that way and been much better.
(BBA on last thread) “I honestly don’t care what the final win total is, I just want to finish in the 4/5 seed again. Of course if they can make a run at 50 wins who knows maybe the 3 seed could come into play but for now I’ll settle for again being in the 4/5 matchup.”
The Knicks playoff record has been 6-0 as the 3rd seed, 1-3 as the 4th seed, and 6-1 as the 5th seed. It’s clear we need to avoid the 4th seed.
Then again if we are the 6th seed and wind up with the Sixers that might be the best outcome. Joel will likely be hobbled as he refuses to rest for the playoffs to chase the 65 game minimum. Hubie’s take on him is spot on.
I am worried about Hartenstein’s minutes. He might be our second most important player right now. If he gets hurt lugging 250 lbs around for 40 minutes a night, we’re in trouble.
Is Precious in the Thibs doghouse already?
Yes minutes allocation seems like a thing we can all agree to fight about 😉
Post Mitch injury and post trade, Brunson, Randle, and iHart seem to be our big three. Thibs must keep them healthy and on the court. Given our coach’s history, I’m not so sure. And looking at the minutes he had them play in *blowouts, Thibs scares me.
There’s 16 games in January (and we closed out December with a B2B before NYE). Assuming a regular Thibs rotation, iHart (and everyone else) is either gonna be hobbled or be Iron Man by the end of it.
I’m past giving Thibs grief for the heavy minutes. Have been for a while now. In most games we play, the other team isn’t doing anything different than we are.
The blowout stuff is annoying, I’ll give you that.
Not sure if this was posted already but:
He better start working on that floater game!
I think McBride has a chance if he finally gets the confidence to go inside a little bit more. He cam shoot, and he’s not a terrible distributor, but he roams around the perimeter and over dribbles way too much. Grimes has the same issue, even when he gets a closeout to attack he generally pump fakes and moves sideways, instead of trying to get inside the paint.
We’ve seen Grimes at least try it a couple of times in this stretch of games, so there’s hope.
Haha. Yes. And Deuce was doing his best Nate Robinson impersonation at times last night 😉
From the psychobabble dept: if OG had complained on previous teams that he was not getting enough offensive opportunities, he should be happier here already. He had multiple drives to the basket and many chances to show some variety, even if his handle looked loose. Like someone said yesterday, I wish he had more wide open threes, but maybe those are coming.
Last night the worst stretch for the whole team was when “Brundle” was going iso per usual and suddenly started missing shots (fatigue?). Those sequences felt familiar in a bad way. We still need new wrinkles in the offense. OG’s attempts and especially IHart running plays from the top of the key are both good solutions IMO.
Specifically re iHart, I said it last night, maybe he’s better starting even when Mitch returns bc he adds passing to the iso heavy starters. And maybe Mitch can benefit offensively from the pass-friendly bench guys like Hart, Grimes, Deuce.
comparing deuce to iq in any sense is obviously ridiculous, but whatever… doubt anyone means that too literally. one of iq’s core offensive skills is using his crazy leprechaun dribble hop into an immediate advantage. deuce on the other hand is worse than most 5s at creating an advantage off the dribble. he just cannot get downhill in the nba when there’s no gaping hole in the line.
his model is much more like a tiny wing that can play very plus defense, get off a (hopefully adequate) jumper on the catch or even on his own at the end of the clock, and do some athletic things like run the break or occasionally shut the game down with a crazy put back. this is a totally viable rotation player on a good team iff he can sink the jumper at a tolerable rate. rooting hard for him — i think it’s possible — but i also think he’s drawing dead to be more than that a la IQ. deuce is a patbev, jevon carter or lord willing d’anthony melton archetype.
I love Deuce but more as a break glass in case of emergency guy. When the 3’s aren’t falling it seems like opponents go on runs whenever he comes in. Im fine with giving him a long, hard look between now and the deadline but would have the hook ready and my finger on the trade button. It’s not even about Deuce, per se…it’s Deuce without burning out a starter to make up for his weaknesses. Maybe the trade needs to be for a 2 or 3 that can create…but it seems that the 1 makes the most sense…then you can play that guy with Grimes, Hart, Precious, and a bigger backup C and give all of the starters some rest.
Or, heaven forbid, try playing Fournier at the back-up two and let him create a bit.
But playing Brunson, Randle, and Hartenstein 40 minutes a night ain’t smart. And the standings are so tight (Thanks, IST!) that you can’t sacrifice wins by resting them.
Come on, Leon, get on it!
Idk… Quickley couldn’t get in the lane for shit at first. Then he worked on his change-of-speed game and that floater, both of which helped immensely. He’s not an above-the-rim guy, just a smart player and a hard worker. Deuce seems like he could be similar.
Right now, both Grimes and Deuce are terrified of turning the ball over (I wish RJ had a little bit more of that fear!) which is why they over-dribble and only venture into the paint when it’s absolutely necessary. I think they’ll both get over that with more reps. Grimes especially is an underrated passer and just isn’t showing it yet.
That said, if we want to maximize our chances of going deep in the playoffs, finding a big backup veteran PG who can pass and defend might be their move.
Hm, looks like Elfrid Peyton is available… (Kidding!!!)
Yeah, I see Deuce as a mini-DDV. That’s probably why he seems to be doing fine when Randle is playing with the second unit and handling ballhandler duties.
“deuce is a patbev, jevon carter or lord willing d’anthony melton archetype.”
Precisely, although DAM is almost certainly a bridge too far. Still, the other two are impactful players when surrounded by the right guys, and Deuce is a better core shooter than either of them. He’s not the in-your-face Draymond-level asshole that PatBev is, which is both a positive and a negative. Agree that the key for him is the face-up jumper, both from 2 and 3. He has nice touch on it, and it worked at all prior levels, but NBA length/quickness seems to bother him.
But it’s impossible not to love the kid, he’s just such a ray of sunshine both on the court and in interviews. I’m rooting super-hard for him!
So nice article in The Athletic about how Giannis is coming to the Knicks. Kidding, kidding, he’s just angry about his team’s ‘lack of pride’ in not playing defense last night in their loss.
Still, it does highlight the fact that the Knicks have really collected a bunch of high-IQ hustlebunnies, which is the key to a good defense (effort and smarts). OG bringing the last bit in, along with a third factor we were struggling with (length).
So a boy can dream… but regardless it makes the team really fun to watch (for me, anyway, as I am fond of smart hustlebunnies and good defense).
“Idk… Quickley couldn’t get in the lane for shit at first. Then he worked on his change-of-speed game and that floater, both of which helped immensely. He’s not an above-the-rim guy, just a smart player and a hard worker. Deuce seems like he could be similar.”
I disagree with this. It is pretty for players coming out of college to discover that what worked for them in college doesn’t translate, and that is usually pretty clear after a couple of hundred minutes on the court. My guess is that IQ, Deuce, and Grimes (and Obi and RJ, but I digress) probably found that out very early on and spent countless reps during the offseason working on expanding their games, including getting to the rim, floaters, etc. My feeling is that some guys are eventually successful at translating practice reps into games (e.g. IQ) and some are not (e.g. Deuce, Grimes). I don’t see much change in their ability to get to the rim or hit floaters from this point forward…it will be more about building less demanding skills like hitting mid-range pull-ups or using footwork and a dribble or two to clear space for 3’s (Grimes seems to have made progress there by working on it with JJ Redick.) Anything beyond that would really surprise me.
Pretty cool we basically don’t ever lose to bad teams
Very true but someone will spin that into us not being able to compete in the playoffs.
I am pretty happy with the Knicks with RJ gone and, as difficult as this is to say, pretty happy with Leon Rose. The FO reeks of competence, which isn’t something I have said about it in a quarter century.
I pretty much agree with you Z-Man, but if you look at Deuce’s per 36 it’s been uphill and currently skyrocketing — pt/per 8.6, 10.5, 15.4; his three % as previously discussed, still well over .400; and his TS% .393. .475, and now .605.
This is all small sample size thriller, of course, and I’d argue more so in previous years than this year. Deuce has always struck me a bit as a rhythm player, and getting three minutes of end-of-game garbage time is really tough, as you probably have to feel you need to hoist it whenever you can. So whether we’re seeing the real Deuce, an improved Deuce, or random Deuce who will decline to the mean, who knows — good arguments for all three — and I guess we’ll see. Glad he’s getting a chance though.
I’m definitely worried about Hartenstein’s minutes even though it’s been a blast to watch him cook. In the immediate aftermath of the Mitch injury and the trade I don’t really blame Thibs but let’s try to get him down to 30 moving forward, yeah?
He’s probably our most indispensable player right now. The season is straight up over if he goes down.
Funny thing is, all of a year ago Achiuwa was probably valued more highly around the league than Hartenstein. Hopefully we can coach him up to being a 15-18 minute “won’t kill you” guy.
I hate to say it but I just don’t see it ever happening for Deuce. I don’t see his offensive game evolving much past the purely stationary shooter role he occupies now and he’s not big enough to justify that with his defense. It’s very hard to be a 6’2″ (generously) guy who is allergic to the paint in the NBA.
However, I very genuinely hope I’m wrong because unlike the Frank Hive, I truly find the Deuce Hive relatable. You get the impression he works his ass off, stays ready, and all the other intangible things people pretended were true about Frank sans evidence.
Deuce is a 3-and-D wing, except he’s tiny. Which means he can only really be a plus player if there’s a bigger ballhandler on the court with him, a la LeBron or Magic.
I know you’re kidding, but…
I said it after the trade for Lillard & I said it again after he signed his extension: Giannis is not off the table.
That team could easily come together in the spring and go on a run. But if they don’t, expect to hear chatter this summer. They ain’t gettin’ any younger.
According to official draft combine measurements, Deuce has a 6’8.75″ wingspan, longer than IQ’s by 1/2 inch. Deuce was 6’1″ without shoes and IQ was 6’2″ without shoes. Deuce scored higher in every testing category…sprint, shuttle run, lane agility. Deuce had a higher vertical, both standing and running. In that regard, they are very similar athletes, and Deuce actually has an edge in everything but raw height.
Yet we know that IQ had special qualities that Deuce simply does not…most importantly ball skills and hand-eye coordination-type stuff. So sure, in that sense, he’s more of an undersized wing and less of a PG than IQ. But physically there is absolutely nothing different about them, and in fact, Deuce might be better suited to handling bigger, stronger players on switches.
I think the Knicks are in an observation phase. The upside of making a complex deal like this early is that they get to see how it’s all going to shake out and still have the time to make another move.
Whatever Deuce’s measurements are, he looks like a hobbit out there. Maybe he’s just overly tentative b/c he feels small vs. some of the giants out there. Could just be a confidence issue. Or not. 🙂
But, like someone else said, very easy to root for, and I’m glad he’s going to get decent minutes.
sunday sunday sunday…oh yeah…hope you all are able to get out, enjoy some sunshine and get some vitamin D in ya…
hit those parks folks 🙂
ooops, unless the weather is bad where you are at…in which case, what the heck are you doing living there…just kidding…heading outside to go walk the dog in some shorts and sandals…
maybe enjoy some of that fine cali cannabis while doing so…
ihart right now is the most indispensable guy… he’s probably 80% of the reason why we have the league’s best defense since the trade… i don’t know what got into him but he’s channeling ben wallace and it’s great to see….
10.1/12.9/2.2stls/2.2 blks per 36 over the last 4 games…
we have been the league’s best defense but also off the backs of that superior rebounding… you have ihart and hart to credit for that who’s also channeling dennis rodman during this stretch…
if it continues… we don’t need anything else… maybe trade for a derozan type… but having a ben wallace and rodman is a huge shot in the arm and the results are what you see….
Hartenstein has been brilliant on both ends and I’m terrified that Thibs is going to run him into the ground. Maybe there’s a way to pick up a playable backup center off the buyout market later in the season. I do think we need a competent defensive-oriented backup C that Thibs can trust.
Bunch of winnable games coming up. Mavs on the 11th should be fun. I worry the Rockets on the 17th could be a trap, especially after what they did against the Bucks last night. Homecoming on the 20th with Toronto should really be filled with angst. Then Nuggets/Heat on the 25th and 27th.
lol RJphan doing all that he can to dismiss OG’s impact on our defense. Are you sir IHart is only 80 percent of the reason why our defense is better since the trade? Why not 85 percent or fuck it, 90 percent.
No I got it. OG is actually hurting our defense more than RJ but IHart is making up for it with a 120% contribution to the defense!
I think it synergy as much as one individual guy. Having OG at the point of attack lets Hart and DDV move off the ball where they’re both better (it’s also easier for Hart to get to the boards when he’s not guarding the ball). Fewer straight line drives makes iHart’s life much easier. Grimes had been great on the defensive end since the trade and Randle has upped his effort as well. But definitely agree that iHart is the Knicks most irreplaceable player at the moment and has been great on defense lately.
holy cow, it was like 50 degrees outside – went outside for a second and had to go put sweats on…
see, all you wanna be internet trolls, that is how it is done…sarcasm is always best served sweetly…
It’s just a relaxing feeling to have an elite, big wing defender that you can just stick on the opponents best player and you know he’s going to be well defended. It becomes a positive feedback loop where Hartenstein can defend the paint easier because stars aren’t getting easy drives against OG, and OG and the others can defend the perimeter better knowing they can direct traffic towards Hartenstein in the paint. Good defenses are always made of good moving parts, when you can build trust between players and know that if you get beaten or if you need to double or switch, someone else will pick up the slack. And it’s only been 4 games so these guys didn’t even practice much with each other.
I think iHart has been great and i’m happy that we have both him and Mitch. We’d certainly have a problem if Thibs runs him into the ground, but come on, the most irreplaceable player is Brunson. If he goes down, and unless we can find some miraculous trade to solve the void it’s bye bye to this season. I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be as hard to find a replacement for iHart on the trade market, we’d be getting less than what he gives us but the goals for the season wouldn’t be changing much.
what has he been doing? he was burned on the regular by maxey against the sixers…. he’s been good in spurts but the guy who’s been contesting all the shots and grabbing all the boards has been ihart… he’s been the biggest reason.. by far…
again.. if you want to make the case.. use evidence… your vibes don’t mean anything…. not coming from you….
why do you gotta be mad over something so inconsequential…. and all of a sudden it’s me dying on this make believe hill because i’m not handing out the awards to the right people in the right way….
guys these guys aren’t your gi joes or barbies….
I’ll just add the obvious, since nobody’s said it, which is if Randle goes down our season is also screwed. Those three are all linchpins to success this year. The others can be solved, to one degree or another, but fingers crossed for those three.
Play Sims more, Thibs!!! (And Precious, for what that’s worth, and Deuce…)
Maxey was 2-8 when guarded by OG. Yeah OG really got “burned on the regular” there.
I agree with Bruno and Nicos here. Defense is a team activity and synergy matters. It’s absurd to think that it’s a coincidence that Hartenstein’s emergence as a defensive stopper just happened to occur in the same game that OG Anunoby arrived. It’s just common sense that rim protection is a lot easier when the perimeter defenders are making it tougher for opposing players to drive to the basket.
Having the ace defensive stopper on the wing makes Thibs’ whole scheme work better.
Yeah, I understood all the (justified) iHart love to be on top of the obvious Brundle appreciation. Main point being, if we squint, iHart completes a Big (enough?) Three for us. OG is exactly as advertised, thus far. So, as long as one of Devo, Grimes, Deuce, or jHart can give us ~ 15 on a given night, we are a very (very!) good and balanced team.
EDIT: and the crazy good news out of Philly (maybe?) is that, if two or three of those “other” guys show up, then one of Brundle can have a poor shooting night.
And it’s not even a surprise when it comes to Thibs because he broke out as a NBA coach in a team where his favorite player was a guy very similar to Anunoby, Luol Deng. Those Bulls teams were regularly top 5 in defensive rating with Deng and Noah being the defensive anchors, while the PG and PF, Rose and Boozer, were the main offensive oriented players. There’s very clear parallels between this team and those Bulls teams.
Let’s keep in mind that Hartenstein is our second string center, and when any team has to play its third stringer as a starter, their generally screwed. Yet Mitch was, to some, our most indispensable player going into the season.
In reality, it is only Julius and Brunson that are truly indispensable. We can find a journeyman C to hold the fort a lot easier than an all-star level PG or PF.
When Deuce got his bag it was a clear sign of their plans at backup pg. And he’s been a revelation. What makes anyone think Leon is considering sending resources out for a back up pg? It’s hard to make a very good team better. We were top 8 last year and just made a deal where it’s pretty clear we took a real, if incremental step toward improving. The only deal really left is the haymaker. Julius plus all the picks for that guy. LeBron comes to mind lol. LA gets a war chest for their next alpha. We get two championships. LBJ has a great argument for best ever. He retires in a Knick uniform lolol. Come on, Leon. Get it done. Bronny could transfer to St Johns lolol
Bruno there definitely are similarities.
Bruno, that is a great team comp.
Geo stop being a spoiled Californian 😉
<~~~he says as he’s driving up the coast from San Diego.
Dan I know you’re joking but no way I trade Randle and picks for lebron. He is 40! He’s not going to stay elite forever and he’s not close to peak lebron anymore.
Also fuck that. I would absolutely hate for lebron to be on the Knicks team that won their first title since the 70s bc it would be ALL about lebron’s legacy and not lebron.
Giannis or Jokic or doncic maybe sure I trade Randle and picks for them. But we should be looking to add to a team with Randle not trade Randle.
My move now is to see how the situation plays out in phoenix and then go all out for Devin booker if they implode in the post season. All the picks plus grimes and Fournier. Move DDV back to the bench.
My man, you not making yourself, JK47 or me look any better right now 🤣🤣🤣 (I tease of course).
I frequently tell my best friend in Syracuse that I’ve gone soft: my blood has thinned – i feel cold at 50 degrees now. Judge me if you want.
Sidebar: here’s how I know global warming is real. Last February I had to go to Syracuse, a month where winter temps are usually BRUTAL there. Temps in the 20s. Snow accumulates and never melts.
It was damn near 40 degrees for the two weeks I was there. And when it snowed, it melted the next day.
LeBron is on his LA soft-landing retirement plan: stat-pad someplace where fan’s aren’t too sophisticated while:
A. Being a pseudo-contender
B. Wait for Bronny to get drafted as a late first rounder, and
C. Continue his tutelage under Magic Johnson on how to become a business mogul
Remember for the first few games of the season we were getting the Daily Cam Reddish Report? What happened to that?
We waived Taj. His contract was about to become guaranteed.
Aw, Taj gets waived… but does coach Taj get hired now?
I hope we can put Taj on the staff
If Mitch doesn’t come back this is probably what we have to do, I don’t think the bigs we have right now can really cut it.
Don’t worry, Thibs has a solution for this in the playoffs
it’s okay Cdiggy, god get me back for being so boastful…one of the boys has been melting down this morning…
thankfully therapy has me in full discussion mode so, able to calm things in the abode a bit, not without some emotional cost, just part of the job though…come to learn in therapy that the 3 threes in life i’m most apt to feel guilt towards, also happen to be about the only things that’ll get me sad too…
maybe in a couple of hours when son has slept off his gaming bender, ditch the sweats and go play basketball outside, underneath a brisk blue californian sky…
What’s nice about our little run of good defense is 3/4 teams we’ve played since the trade have shot the 3 fairly well, it’s not a flukey stretch of bad opponent shooting.
saw someone in the media referring to uh “Brundle” as R&B, which is a considerably better nickname imho
“Dan I know you’re joking but no way I trade Randle and picks for lebron. He is 40! He’s not going to stay elite forever and he’s not close to peak lebron anymore.“
Sure. Of course. The point was less about any specific top ten player but about our point on the win curve. I don’t see any incremental move right now. Malcom Brogdon? Really? For first rounders and young talent? And who sits? Nah. Keep your powder dry, Leon
A good argument for synergy on D is that somehow, with Mitch, jHart, Divo, IQ, and iHart we had a mediocre to crappy defense; now with iHart, OG, JHart, and Divo, we have a top-level defense. They lose Mitch (!) and gain OG, and…
I get the second, but honestly I was mystified by the first. How was that a crappy defense? As much as I want to blame it all on RJ, that seems excessive…
“ditch the sweats and go play basketball outside, underneath a brisk blue californian sky…“
I’ll be at the rec park in Manchester vt with my gloves on lol. Not if it’s under ten degrees though. That’s the rule for school kids at recess as well. We’re all weather here. No waves but powder snow today and a pass to Bromley ten minutes away
We’re in an interesting spot wherein we might be good enough to justify a substantial-but-not-star addition like Brogdon, but such an addition would be likely to diminish our haymaker package.
It’s not a bad problem to have, it just means we should use the time we have until the deadline to collect as much data as possible as to how good the current team is.
I’m somewhat partial to just trying to patch the holes on this team on the cheap, but could be convinced otherwise with another month of stellar play.
PoA defense is very important. Donte isn’t at his best there, not against the NBA’s true #1 options, he’s a good defender because he flies around off the ball and swoops passing lanes. He seems to be doing much better against secondary perimeter options when attacked.
It’s also difficult to make up for Randle & Brunson’s terrible defense. There was little to no weakside help and they aren’t great at 3pt closeouts. I think RJ was okay there this year, but he’s not anywhere near good enough to make up for fielding Randle & Brunson together.
Also, RJ was taking up ~30min from better defenders. Again, he seemed fine but fine doesn’t cut it next to Randle & Brunson.
In short, we had good defenders but none of them (other than our overworked Cs) were All-Defense candidates.
The center position is the weakest spot at the moment. Hart is playing great but there’s nobody behind him. Thibs goes to the 6’8″ Achiuwa and Randle at the five instead of playing Sims, and now they cut Taj. That tells you they planning to bring in a reliable backup center.
As of Brunson’s backup, Deuce has shown improvement in last two of the four games he has played since the OG trade. Most importantly, he needs to become more decisive in attacking the defense and making things happen. Confidence has a lot to do with that. I think they will keep evaluating him. There is a reason Thibs has kept him on the roster all this time.
“I’m somewhat partial to just trying to patch the holes on this team on the cheap, but could be convinced otherwise with another month of stellar play.”
Not sure what you mean here…would you consider Brogdon a “patch up the holes on the cheap” guy? Or are you talkling about someone like Burks?
Meaning, I don’t think that Brogdon would necessarily diminish our “haymaker” package, since he likely wouldn’t involve unprotected firsts and those are all that really matter in a single haymaker-type deal.
And in that case, if we have another month of stellar play, it would suggest that we don’t really need a Brogdon-type. On the other hand, if it is clear that Deuce is not capable of providing at least 12 minutes of competent backup play every night, resulting in less-than-stellar play, then I would make a move involving only our protected picks, or seconds, or maybe someone like Grimes or Precious going out.
Future Knick Malcolm Brogdon torching the Nets in OT
saw someone in the media referring to uh “Brundle” as R&B, which is a considerably better nickname imho
iso-cronies
nets are in such as weird spot. mikal and cam will be 28 next year. they can’t really improve until simmons runs off in 25, but can’t tank. have to pay claxton this summer. free agency is barely a thing so would probably have to deal some of the phoenix picks to land a difference maker. but hard to get someone good enough to justify where that would leave them.
They have to find a tank team that absorbs Simmons for draft picks. Still can’t believe Morrey somehow flipped Simmons for Harden and Sean is still employed.
Bringing in OG allowed everybody to move one spot to the right on the defensive spectrum. Now Hart/Grimes/DDV don’t have to be the primary POA defenders, they are instead secondary/tertiary defenders. The removal of RJ Barrett means one fewer poor defender who needs to be hidden.
I for one truly believe that RJ’s poor stock/deflection numbers are indicative of just how poor a defender he is. It’s no coincidence that we look a lot better on defense without him in the lineup. E would come here to refute this but we’re on a four game winning streak and I think I just saw his face on a milk carton.
Random takes after a comedy in Washington:
– This is a new team, with a better all-around starting lineup, addition by subtraction at his peak.
It isn’t a perfect team* but dangerous and thorny to play.
– Recently I confirmed my preseason prediction of 47 wins, but we’re already 2 wins over my expected-as-today preview.
Schedule’s getting a little softer and home-heavy, if they keep their focus (and I’m sure Thibs will tend to that) and OG progresses in the “integration process”, my expectations might turn out too low.
– Fun fact: after this afternoon’s games we’re closer to the 2nd Eastern spot (Milwaukee, 4 games) than the 9th (Brooklyn, 5 games).
– We’re getting really good at steamrolling lousy teams (Utah’s the cream of the bad teams and we were on the road so it’s forgivable), now let’s do the same with the Blazers.
– I’m one of the people wondering if Achiuwa’s already booking his ticket to Siberia.
Put Taj on the coaching staff and make him work with him and Jericho 24/7.
– All together guys: Let The Cake Bake!
* Already missing a key player (Mitch), still with question marks waiting for definitive answers (backup-C, bench scoring) and vulnerable just like everyone else if a main piece goes down.
I can’t believe after all these years I haven’t learned to bet the house on the Giants in the last game of the season when a win would be massively detrimental to their future.
I’m not even mad at them. I’m mad at me. I should have brought this bet to a hedge fund and made a billon.
Just for info, our old pal Luca Vildoza (OAKAAK) broke the lateral meniscus of his left knee and is going to have surgery tuesday.
No timeline to return yet.
Alas he’s very injury prone.
I was thinking of that when I talked about the impact Mitch could have on the second unit.
That Bulls team created the term “bench mob”, and it wasn’t built around having someone like IQ.
They had Omar Asik and Taj Gibson come in and lock down the rim. We can pull the same thing off with Mitch & Precious.
They had Ronnie Brewer, a role that Grimes can pull off.
Then they had CJ Watson & Kyle Korver. We’re missing the CJ, but that’s easy to find in the draft. We use Hart in the Korver role. A lot different, but equally impactful.
you could have doubled it up and inserted “the Jets” in that sentence and made 2 billion…
Giants can still get Jayden Daniels [LSU QB ] if that’s who they want
Maybe but Marvin Harrison Jr is the guy they need.
Randles not a terrible defender unless he’s playing center. Sometimes he doesn’t try but otherwise he’s fine at PF.
From what I’ve read even with a loss Giants at best could only move up 1 spot to 4th and that was only if New England lost which didn’t happen.
Consequently with a win the worst they could drop is just 1 spot and even with a win they could still stay at 5.
He’s probably still employed because he got two first round picks in that trade, including an unprotected 2027 first.
Or maybe it’s the 2029 unprotected first he got from dallas.
Or maybe it’s the four unprotected firsts he got from Phoenix.
Or maybe it’s bc he got Mikal
Bridges.
The Raiders won a bunch of meaningless games down the stretch after the world’s dumbest man (Josh McDaniels) got fired, rallying behind Antonio Pierce who is trying to get the interim tag removed from his title.
The man with the world’s worst haircut (Mark Davis) will probably fire Pierce though and bring in some big “name” like Lane Kiffin or some shit, completing the circle of life
look the larger point here is that in terms of what opponents are shooting against a certain player is that it is tracked and so if you’re moved by this 2-8 when guarded by OG then you should also be moved by the overall stats when OG is guarding someone ….and by and large OG is doing about average… they’re shooting about 46.5% with an average amount of attempts…
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/defense-dash-overall
https://www.nba.com/stats/players/opponent-shooting
the guy who’s doing a crazy amount of work is hartenstein where opponents are shooting a crazy low 44% against him on an average for a center number of attempts (which is double everyone else)…. (brunson for that matter is doing great in this regard but probably a flukey jumpshot artifact)…
i do not think OG is having much impact when ihart is blocking gobert at the rim 3x… and embiid a couple times… or when ihart is blitzing down the court in transition to stop a fastbreak single handedly….
and of the 4 factors our defensive rebounding is top 5… with ihart and hart to be attributed to that….
so yea if you think OG is THE reason this has all happened… this should show up somewhere… and i’m not seeing it…. this is primarily being driven by ihart being really really really good and he’s doing it with or without OG against guys that OG is not responsible for….
and before i get accused of … i dunno what… but OG has been impactful…. but the guy that needs most of the credit is ihart because he’s actually driving all of these defensive changes… and these are BIG changes where it’s impossible that it can’t be measured… OG’s are in the small and tracking may or may not pickup on it category which is what happens with perimeter defenders….
so it’s not so much i’m downplaying whatever OG is doing… it’s putting the proper due on ihart because he’s been stupdendous and it doesn’t need any qualification or asterisks… he deserves all the credit….
You honestly think it’s a coincidence that Hartenstein seems to have transformed into Rudy Gobert the day OG arrived.
Ok then.
Give it up RJ. Maybe spend a little less time worrying about showing how OG isn’t making a huge difference and spend some more time working on passing out of a triple team.
IHart started for the Knicks for over a month before OG showed up. Weird the defense was so bad during that time but now it isn’t.
Well I know Thibs doesn’t know half as much about coaching defense as some guys on the internet, but I believe I heard him saying something about (paraphrasing) how every player has a responsibility in the team defensive concept so crediting one player or another in a typical statistical analysis is not something he puts much stock in.
But if you believe, as I definitely do, that he has a pretty good handle on who deserves and doesn’t deserve credit in a particular defensive possession, it seems like a reasonable proposition that having a guy like OG presenting a wider radius of defensive coverage causes fewer breakdowns that force rotations, switches, imbalances, etc.
In the case of iHart, if he is forced to rotate or hedge a step earlier because someone on the perimeter got beat by a step more, he’s less likely to block a shot because the offensive player can capitalize on iHart’s lateness and either beat him, draw a foul, or lay it off.
We saw that all over the place with RJ out there instead of OG…we would wind up chasing pass after pass until eventually someone was open for 3. iHart couldn’t block a shot because he was out of position in the chasing merry-go-round.
I don’t know if I’m explaining this well, but what it comes down to is that every player affects every other player in ways that are not discernible in box-score stats. when iHart is stoning Gobert at the rim, it’s partly because he’s in position rather than chasing and leaving the rim unprotected.
The larger point is that we all know that iHart is a damn good rebounder and rim protector. So is Josh Hart when he doesn’t have to guard big PFs. So is OG, as his NBA all-defense rep and league-leading steals numbers would indicate. And they had better be, because they ain’t in the league because of their offense. But only one of them is new to the team and has replaced an (at best) average defender, and the impact is pretty obvious.
well what did he do then? you can prove me wrong… but like if he showed up and changed everything… there should be an example in a replay.. some metric that shows this in some fashion right?
unless you can show that ihart’s rebounding… his steals and blocks… his contested shots… are a direct result of whatever OG is doing… then isn’t it reasonable to assume that most of that is coming from ihart?
let’s put this another way… if ihart somehow plays back to his career norms… which is a distinct possiblility… is that also going to be because of OG? how much agency does ihart have over his own numbers or is it just because of everyone else?
I dunno, what’s more plausible:
1. The addition of a first rate defensive stopper has had a holistic effect on the overall defense, making the jobs of players like Hartenstein easier
2. Isiah Hartenstein suddenly, overnight, got a lot better at basketball, which coincidentally happened to be on the same day the Knicks acquired OG Anunoby
what happened to the rjpham name? did you realize how corny it was and decided to go the way less cornier route of calling me rj instead?
RJ in 26 games this season had 12 steals, OG in 4 games already has 6 steals…
Let’s see how the defense plays from here on out. If we’re like the 20th best defense again for the rest of the season then I guess you’re right.
If we’re one of the better defenses in the league from this point out then maybe, just maybe, OG Anunoby might have had something to do with that.
again…. this is a huge effect right? so why is this so hard to show? you can try anectodal or statistical evidence…. it’s the only way to move this discussion forward..
we’re going to be at an impasse because you want me to assume that it’s just true because you feel that way whereas… the evidence shows … and these are four factors… player tracking data… nothing really all that esoteric… that it indeed runs counter to it….
i don’t think anyone’s willing to do it and instead go the easy route and say that i’m… rj barrett?… so let’s not belabor this stupid argument… you guys believe what you want….
For whatever its worth I did just mention that in 4 games OG already has half the amount of steals that RJ had in 26 games.
One factor that should be considered is that whenever a team makes significant roster changes, a lot of the opponents’ game-planning film goes out the window. It will probably take a while before we feel the full brunt of opponents’ initial offensive adjustments to our new personnel.
As to OG on Maxey, the thing is that even if OG was only competent in that assignment, it meant that RJ or DDV or Brunson didn’t have to take him on. Same with DeRozan the game before that. Or Edwards the game before that. That obviously changes the whole defensive spacing equation.
I just gave you evidence that Tyrese Maxey didn’t “burn OG on the regular” and you brushed that away with a bunch of djphansplaing nonsense. Many here have made the point that the defense overall is playing better as players are in more appropriate roles. Your explanation for all of this is that Isaiah Hartenstein has all of a sudden discovered his inner DPOY and the rest of it is all a coincidence.
I respect that you’ve put down a marker and said that this is likely to be a sub-.500 team going forward and that we’re really going to miss RJ Barrett but early returns don’t look so great and the “Isaiah Hartenstein is Bill Russell now” is the new theory du jour. Good luck with all that. You might want to open up your mind to the idea that you don’t know as much as you think you do.
for the record… a big artifact of the trade is that it dislodged the whole minutes crunch that we self-inflicted and having to play Randle.. Brunson and iHart.. huge playoff type of minutes is a big part of why we’ve been doing well….that alone probably saved us against the wolves and the bulls….
our defense was doing well until mitch went down and we ‘had’ to play taj gibson and sims minutes…. this was Taj’s minutes….
13. 15, 15,10,15,14
precious has not been playing those minutes… and ihart has been playing over 37mpg since the trade…. if you want the biggest consequence of the trade.. it’s really just playing ihart more… if we just did that beforehand .. and uh… not started sims…. then yea we probably would’ve seen this earlier….
that’s probably why we’re seeing such great results since the trade that doesn’t have anything to do with OG….
ok i’m gonna drop it after this… but i said if you are moved by maxey’s shooting.. then the MUCH bigger sample of shooting that OG is responsible for should also move you… so does it?
no? ok cool….. we can’t progress until we can agree on what facts matter.. that’s reasonable right? so let’s just drop it…
I don’t have a dog in this fight but Hartenstein had three or four incredible blocks on Rudy Gobert in OG’s first game. I’ve never seen anything like that from him before, and I don’t think OG’s presence had anything to do with it.
Hartenstein has gotten better every game he’s been the starter. I do think it’s at least plausible that the uptick is due to confidence and it’s just coincidental that OG arrived when iHart started getting more confident.
It’s also really weird that dj comes on here with one of his most optimistic posts, praising Isiah Hartenstein like a fanboy, and swifty tries to interpret it as “why do you hate OG?”
It was clearly a pro-iHart post, Swifty, not an anti-OG post. Leon acquired both guys, so it’s not like giving credit to iHart over OG takes credit away from Leon. Why are you so mad?
god damn but if that ain’t the story of my life right there…
Hubert, just to be the fly in the ointment, it COULD be that those amazing blocks were because iHart was camped out waiting for the opportunity instead of scrambling to fill a gap. It seems in the NBA that being even one step off from best-case is the difference between a block and a poster.
Dunno, just saying.
And yes, Swiftie with the completely unnecessary bear-poking.
That’s a yellow card.
Hubs, I’m not mad. Just calling it like I see it.
This is probably one of those times where all arguments can be essentially true at the same time, give or take.
RJ is feelin’ it right now…telling everyone what they can do with the Andrew Wiggins comp.
4 games is what it is obviously but our defensive rating with OG on is 96.1. It’s 117.2 with him off.
The sample size is so small I view that as basically meaningless on its own, but taken together with 1) OG’s stellar defensive reputation and statistics 2) common sense re: him replacing RJ and 3) the eye-test, I think it’s pretty safe to say he has benefitted our defense.
RJ Barrett outscored Steph Curry 26-2 in the first half. Changing of the guard!
HOW COULD WE TRADE RJ BARRETT???
“RH Barrett outscored Steph Curry 26-2 in the first half. Changing of the guard!”
Well LH Barrett sucked, so maybe shooting righty is the way to go?
Great piece today on the Clyde Frazier blog “Snoopin’ and Hoopin’” — all about how, in the 1970s, if the Knicks blew out top teams, it often made peace between ardent fans with personal grudges and different opinions as to why the team won.
so defensive rating in 4 games is what moves you? so what does this tell you then:
95.8 hartenstein
98.4 brunson
and hartenstein’s done that playing 3 more minutes per game (37.6 minutes) to OG’s 34.5…
so again.. this is very very small sample that doesn’t mean anything to begin with… but to try to make inferences you are it doesn’t even work on that level either….
So right now the 7-12 seeds in the WC are PHX, HOU, GSW, LAL, UTA and MEM. What a mess! The Dubs and Lakers are in disarray and the Suns just lost a critical bench piece on an already thin roster. The Griz got Ja back but are still scuffling. Houston seems to be coming back down to earth. I have no idea how it will turn out but it will be fun to watch!
Steph should demand a trade to OKC
RJ to Leon: YOU GOT FLEECED!
Jokic has taken 3 shots against the Pistons and has 16 assists. That’s incredibly funny
RJ does have a great stat line tonight. He had 37 points on twenty shots including five for eight on three pointers, 6 rebounds, and 6 assists. I’m impressed. Golden State didn’t play Draymond, so maybe they didn’t have much protection at the rim.
That OG Anunoby has been part of a starting lineup that is playing excellent defense as a unit. I guess you are entitled to your opinion that OG Anunoby himself has nothing to do with that and we’ll get a better idea of how much credit to attribute to each player in the weeks and months to come. Strikes me as implausible though.
I read Golden State has locker room issues as well. Tonight, Kerr changed three (!) starters to begin the second half. As of RJ, if he were playing at the level he played tonight, the falling apart Warriors team notwithstanding, he would still be a Knick. Alas, he will regress to his mediocre median, no doubt. We wish him good luck.
Here’s a stat that I think leans towards synergy rather than having iHart being responsible for the bulk of the defensive turnaround. iHart fouls per 36 before the trade was at 4.6; He’s been under three over the last four. Given that he’s had two easy matchups and two really tough matchups I’d say they balance out to average competition. So did iHart suddenly become far more disciplined or has the improved perimeter defense put him in fewer bad spots?
again.. i am not saying that…. i have no idea where that came from… but it’s really hard to make the case that OG is making iHart both rebound.. block shots and steal the basketball more as well as contest and impact all those shots at the rim… the most logical thing is to attribute those things to the guy doing it right?
and so if OG is making an outsized impact on the defense… where do we see that? we don’t see it in the contested shot metrics… we don’t see it in the defensive box score numbers… we don’t see it in defensive rating…
so where is it? that’s what i’m challenging you guys.. there’s clips on nba.com where you can look at segments and make your case too…. this isn’t an open and shut case… you guys think i’m doing that because you are essentially saying… trust me bro… well no i don’t do that…
here’s what i believe.. here’s why i believe it…. you don’t have to believe it… but don’t tell me what you’re saying has more evidence or whatever… cause that’s not the case as i’ve shown.. if you have something to present… let’s talk about it… until then it’s not worth talking about because you don’t care about what i show and you want to say that smaller samples are worth more… i can’t do that…
“ok i’m gonna drop it after this… so let’s just drop it…”
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/relatedvideo?q=Princess+bride+Liar!&mid=DBAF070259D5F8F05430DBAF070259D5F8F05430&FORM=VIRE
OG is guarding the best offensive guard or wing player on the opposing team every night.
The overall defense has been improved since he joined the team.
OG has the highest on/off over his first 4 games in Knicks history.
Very few things are black and white. Other factors may be contributing to our recent success and better defense (like I-Hart), but if we are debating OG’s defensive impact it’s only because the stats that try to capture individual defensive impact are so bad. Not only do they not capture individual defense well, regression analysis underrates the impact of defense relative to offense because the defensive component of the data is so inaccurate.
I think we’re mostly shadow-boxing. The obvious thing to say here is that 4 games is simply too small of a sample to conclusively establish anything. The second obvious thing to say is that—for 4 games— Hartenstein has been showing out *and* OG’s defense has been excellent. I don’t think anyone’s wrong here. What should we conclude at this point ia that we’ve had a season best 4 game stretch post trade—the causes are known, but the degree of contribution of each isn’t. So we have to wait a bit longer.
iHart has been a statistical quagmire for last few years. He was amazing in LA during 2nd half of the season in a switch heavy defense and ball movement motion type offense under Lou. He learned to excel in Thibs drop coverage defense and to never touch the ball on ofense while becoming the best back up center in the league last year.
Adding OG put him in a perfect position to be sucessfull defensively. Removing RJ and IQ, gets him more touches offensively, – so his assist ratio has improved but it should go a lot higher.
For the first time in his pro life, Hartenstein has found himself in a perfect situation on the defensive side of the ball. All the data points to iHart finishing the season as a top 5 center in the Eastern Conference leading NY to a top 3 defense resulting in a 50+ win season.
Lou Williams never coached the Clippers; he only played for them.
If this team continues to play great defense the rest of the year and ends up as one of the better teams in the NBA you really have to give a lot of credit to Thibs. He has been trying to piece a good defense together here despite not really having the horses, and now he finally has the right personnel to really show what he can do.
So, at what point do the Knicks try to lock up iHart and look to deal Mitch?
🙂