[news.google.com] — Friday, March 24, 2023 7:00:00 AM
Spurs Fiesta 5: Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson Interested in Trade to San Antonio? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Friday, March 24, 2023 3:30:00 AM
Knicks’ lack of energy during slump is most concerning New York Post
[news.google.com] — Friday, March 24, 2023 2:45:00 AM
Knicks fall to Magic after Julius Randle outburst as East playoff race tightens New York Post Julius Randle Gets Into Spat With Teammate After Technical Foul Sports IllustratedBernard King on Julius Randle joining elite Knicks scorers New York Post
[news.google.com] — Friday, March 24, 2023 2:38:00 AM
Knicks’ dream seeding scenario, matchup for 2023 NBA Playoffs ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Friday, March 24, 2023 1:15:00 AM
Knicks, Nets battle with Heat to avoid Play-In Tournament as race tightens Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Friday, March 24, 2023 12:12:00 AM
Knicks Mailbag: On New York’s strong 2022-23, possible offseason pursuits Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 11:08:00 PM
Banchero, Anthony lift Magic over Knicks 111-106 News 13 Orlando
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 10:30:00 PM
Magic: Franz Wagner exits after suffering ankle injury vs. Knicks ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 10:12:14 PM
Knicks’ Quentin Grimes: Leads from deep in 25-point outing CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:33:12 PM
Julius Randle Gets Into Spat With Teammate After Technical Foul Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:04:35 PM
Maine Celtics secure playoff berth, home game with win over Knicks Press Herald
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 8:19:48 PM
WATCH: Knicks Star Julius Randle Loses Cool After Missed Call vs. Magic – NBA Tracker Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 7:40:51 PM
Knicks Injuries: Why is Jalen Brunson Out vs. Magic? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 6:54:28 PM
Knicks: Mitchell Robinson good to go vs. Magic ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 5:04:00 PM
Knicks vs. Magic prediction, odds, line, spread, start time: 2023 NBA picks, March 23 bets by proven model CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 4:23:00 PM
Knicks vs. Magic Odds, Pick, Prediction | NBA Betting Preview The Action NetworkOrlando Magic Grades: Orlando Magic fight off New York Knicks Orlando Magic DailyMagic Starting 5: New York Knicks Not Enough vs. Orlando Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 3:42:19 PM
New York Knicks PR: Jalen Brunson (sprained right hand) is … Hoops Hype
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 3:36:33 PM
Are The Knicks And Mitchell Robinson Heading Towards An Offseason Split? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 2:12:32 PM
Josh Hart Offers Hopeful Update For Knicks’ Future Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 2:10:35 PM
Immanuel Quickley’s candid outlook on current Knicks role ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 2:09:00 PM
Knicks Center Mitchell Robinson Wants Trade; Spurs in Play? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 1:58:20 PM
New York Knicks PR: Mitchell Robinson (contus? Hoops Hype
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 1:50:46 PM
Mitchell Robinson (knee contusion) questionable for Thursday’s game against Magic Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 1:06:17 PM
Knicks Seek to Snap 2-Game Skid Against Magic The Knicks Wall
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 1:00:00 PM
Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson sends yet another petty message to team on Twitter Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 10:13:06 AM
Knicks’ defensive issues re-emerging before playoffs AMNY
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 10:02:18 AM
Mitchell Robinson’s latest Twitter activity shows he’s still unhappy with Knicks ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Thursday, March 23, 2023 9:57:00 AM
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34 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.03.24)”
As usual they never quit, but if you put yourself in a hole again and again there’s something wrong.
Randle C-
Without Brunson he’s a ticking bomb ready to explode. A little bit better in the second half but not enough for the “supposed” co-leader.
Barrett D
Back in the “number 2” option role he fooled us again.
3-12, 5 turnovers. Unwatchable and irritating. With him the only consistent thing is inconsistency.
Quickley C+
Terrible start, bad turnovers, better in the second half, but not enough.
Grimes A
Knicks’ MVP for the second straight time. Maybe his 6 assist are the the better news. 3 steals also.
Robinson B
No shots in the first 45 minutes of the game, but 12 boards (6 offensive), 3 blocks… and no fouls?!!?
Deuce B-
6 minutes.
Hart C+
Worst game as a Knick.
Toppin C-
Probably he’ll never be a starter, but others will be able to use in a better way.
Hartenstein B
A lot of things, a lot of energy.
Thibs C
The team’s ability to fight is the only positive thing I can find for him in this game.
You know what’s a really stupid narrative? The idea that Quickley will leave in free agency unless the Knicks make him a starter. Who the fuck leaves their team in free agency unless they’re made a starter? That’s not a thing! People leave in free agency because teams don’t think they’re good enough to pay starter money while another team thinks they are good enough for starter money, but that’s a whole other thing. If the Knicks pay IQ, he will stay here. It’s not even a remote possibility that he would leave over not getting to start. It’s ludicrous.
I don’t think i still share your optimism, Brian. And the Nets are not right behind us, Miami is, they’re now the 6th seed and rising.
Games until the end of March:
NYK: HOU, MIA, @CLE
MIA: BRK, @TOR, @NYK
BRK: @MIA, @ORL, HOU, ATL
We have to win the game against Miami and go at least 2-1 in this stretch. If we go 1-2 losing to Miami, there’s a good chance they’ll be the 5th seed before April. Nets probably will still be behind us, but their games in April are all at home except an easy trip to Detroit, so there’s a chance they’ll be good to end the season. Our games in April are all very winnable, so i hope we’ll at least be top6, but we need to start taking care of business again. We should have won yesterday.
Yes where is this narrative that IQ will just walk in the offseason lmao. Hes getting plenty of playing time.
I didn’t get a chance to watch the game because my daughter’s school had a game night/mentor event. So imagine my shock when I saw the box score at 5am and that Brunson didn’t play lol. Even though the games are a little more spread out in the 2nd half for us this season, Thibs needs to do more to keep Julius and Mitch fresh come playoff time. Use Sims some if you have to and let Obi play through his growing pains just a little more the rest of the way. I’m not as concerned with RJ’s and Grimes’ legs right now because we have guys who can come in and play at those positions if need be. And rest Brunson as much as possible..he’s been nicked up quite a bit.
I am still out the window over this team though. This rough patch however, is a big concern. We don’t have much time to get a grip on things.
I didn’t get to watch the game, but this morning I’m reading that Randle went into meltdown mode again at halftime?
Not a good look, the crucible is only gonna get hotter in the playoffs Julius.
i like that IQ got up in Randle’s face…someone had to stand up to that idiot…someone better find out which chakra’s are being blocked and tweak that pre-game meditation…
Randle sometimes reminds me of DeMarcus Cousins, and not in a good way
Our defense is being exposed right now. We’re not getting stops when we need them. That’s troubling. We’re not going to beat anyone playing this way.
Our upcoming game vs. the Heat might be a barometer for our playoff hopes. That is an absolute must win at home, and every team we will face in the playoffs will be at least that good.
BTW, does the Heat winning their division mean anything in a tiebreaker vs. us, or is it still conference record?
Teams are really starting to pound Randle physically and he’s not getting calls, so I definitely understand his frustration. But at the same time, he has to be aware that they’re doing this on purpose to get a rise out of him.
It’s not even the technicals that bother me. It’s how him getting angry/upset affects the other aspects of his game. His decision making, rebounding and defense all go down when he gets upset. He has to do better.
I’m not TOO concerned, though. These last 3 losses were all super close and the calls in the Miami game especially were quite egregious. This was the second game on a back to back and without Brunson and as many have pointed out, Orlando is a sneaky good bad team.
I’m more concerned about our playoff positioning and overall health of the team than I am about any bad mojo or energy. I think that stuff is overblown sometimes. The team is fighting and not giving up. Maybe a little rough patch before the playoffs is a good thing?
I’m also not going to get too upset if we lose in the first round (LOL, I say that now). As long as it’s competitive. I want to keep the long view here. Unlike 2 years ago, we can bring back EVERYONE next season without resigning a bunch of aging vets/mercs.
One big quibble I do have with Thibs, though. I know McBride played last night bc Brunson was out. But I don’t really understand why he was taken out of the rotation. I didn’t really care that much when Hart first got here cause we were on a crazy win streak, but now it bothers me.
I get that going down to the 9 man rotation turned our season around. But McBride was part of that 9 man rotation. And doing that was really more about not playing Rose, Fournier and Cam and giving more minutes to Grimes and McBride, which improved our defense immensely. McBride wasn’t the sole reason we initially turned things around but his energy and defense definitely helped. And that was when he wasn’t even contributing on offense.
He had that nice 2 game stretch against The Lakers and Portland but even before HART showed up, McBride’s offense was trending upwards.
So Thibs should have kept him in the rotation and expanded back to a 10 man rotation instead of keeping the 9 man and pushing McBride out. McBride’s defensive impact is huge for the second unit. He also allows IQ to not just be the back up PG all the time, which frees him up to score.
HART was able to seemlessly join our rotation. There’s no reason to think expanding to 10 and giving Jalen a bit more rest each game would have messed anything up.
It’s probably too late now to do that and in the playoffs I would expect the rotation to be 9 players and not 10. But next season, if everyone comes back and we have the same team, we absolutely need to roll with a 10 man rotation. Its not going to be like the start of this season where Thibs is going to have to figure out who is in and out of the rotation. It should all be set from the get go. We can’t have Jalen play this many minutes all season and expect him to be ready for the playoffs. He’s a little dude and he spends a lot of time in the paint.
swift, sort of agree on both points, the post all-star winning streak gave us some well-deserved wiggle room. But losing to CHA, undermanned MIN, and ORL is very troubling. This is a vital stretch coming up and it would suck to end such a promising season on a tailspin. OTOH it would alert the FO that there is still lots of work to do so they won’t get complacent like they did after 2020-21.
Repost and updated
1. Randle is a basket case without Brunson on the court to take some of the pressure off him. It’s too easy for defenses to load up on him and that brings out bad Randle.
2. RJ teased us again. He used to do it by shooting well for few games and then going back to regular RJ. This time he had an acceptable basketball IQ for a few games and then went back to being regular RJ. He needs Brunson also. Then there’s at least hope he’ll get his shot selection and TOs under control.
3. Grimes appears capable of more than being a distant 4th option.
4. Thib’s use of Obi is a crime against humanity.
5. Quick’s inconsistent streaky shooting is a bit of an issue. We also need his scoring in the 2nd unit. When he starts, there’s a problem. We all like Deuce, but there’s not enough O in that unit with Quick starting.
6. 5 minutes into the game you could see they were tired from the back to back and weren’t going to play well.
7. Orlando is sneaky better than their record.
8. When things were going well I knew this playoff run for the 5th seed race was far from over. The Heat are very good and taking even 1 game from them was no lock. The Nets are struggling, but they are still good enough to reel off a few wins in a row. Plus, injuries happen. We better come back healthy, rested and ready.
Julius Randle simply doesn’t react to adversity in anything like the way you’d like to see and more importantly, it impacts his performance — often dramatically.
They’ve hit a bit of a skid here. That’s not really surprising; neither they nor any similarly-situated team is ever as good as they are during their hot streaks.
But let’s wait and see how it shakes out. The scenario a bunch of us didn’t like (and some but not others have wavered from) is still eminently possible; i.e., trading out of the first round of the draft and then paying the veteran you traded for and capping out and doing all the rest and still after all that, flaming out in the first round.(*)
It’s also possible they’ll transcend that. Whether it’s to the requisite degree will be the subject of future conversation. That’s kinda why they play the games.
(*) Did they look better than that during their hot streak? Yes, they absolutely did. Did I, a charter member of “Team Pessimism” waver a bit and suggest that 42-1 to win the East was a bit high and might be a good bet? Yes, I did. But the association season is very long, with ebbs and flows and the best counsel is almost always to just let things play out. (You couldn’t maintain a decent association team blog if you didn’t have people talking day-to-day, yeah obviously, but still.)
(1)
“You know what’s a really stupid narrative? The idea that Quickley will leave in free agency unless the Knicks make him a starter. Who the fuck leaves their team in free agency unless they’re made a starter? That’s not a thing! People leave in free agency because teams don’t think they’re good enough to pay starter money while another team thinks they are good enough for starter money, but that’s a whole other thing. If the Knicks pay IQ, he will stay here. It’s not even a remote possibility that he would leave over not getting to start. It’s ludicrous.”
I love IQ and hope they are willing to pay him starter money to stay here. He is certainly much better than RJ, so anything less than what RJ got would be a bit of an insult in my opinion. I don’t know what Washington’s cap situation is, but if they offered him similar money to be closer to home and start, I think that would be a good career choice, not at all ludicrous. It would be very similar to the Brunson situation.
We landed on the bad side of Lowe’s 10 things this week:
“7. The Obi Toppin situation
Sigh. I’m still a believer in Toppin, even though his 3-point shooting has dipped to 32%. There is just no path to real playing time for Toppin on the New York Knicks. He backs up Julius Randle, and Randle leads the league in minutes amid another potential All-NBA run. Tom Thibodeau won’t use Toppin at center, or pair Toppin and Randle in smaller lineups, and it’s pretty much impossible at this point to nit-pick that decision. The Knicks are winning, and their three-headed center brigade — Mitchell Robinson (getting in that cardio!), Isaiah Hartenstein and Jericho Sims — has executed Thibodeau’s scheme.
Toppin’s entire existence is running around for two short stints, jacking a few open 3s and retiring to the bench. If he makes a couple 3s, he helped. If he goes 0-of-4, you forget he played. He has no chance to establish rhythm.
Toppin’s strengths are all still there. He runs the floor faster than almost any big man, and he’s a quick passer with handoff skills. If he can make enough 3s — and New York brass was extremely bullish before the season — Toppin is a good backup and spot starter, despite below-average defense.
Toppin is eligible for an extension this summer, but it’s hard to see any marriage here.”
I love IQ and he is a blast to root for. He’s only 23 so he can still get better.
That said, I don’t see him as a $20+M AAV player in today’s dollars. Same with Hart. They are excellent complementary players, but you need a star better than anyone on our roster, and if anyone on our roster can help you get that guy, you make that deal.
I don’t think Spida was that guy, so glad we didn’t make that deal assuming that it would have cost at least 2 of RJ, IQ and Grimes with an additional 5 unprotected firsts/swaps. And just like RJ became a less valuable chip once we overpaid him, the same will likely be true for IQ, Grimes and Hart.
But at least now it is more likely that we will have something left on the roster beyond the stars after making a deal for a star, and that star might be a better fit with what we have. I still think we should be targeting a 2 or a 3 with our mother lode, not a smallish combo guard like Mitchell or Dame.
If we have a chance to package Obi and/or RJ for an upgrade at the 3, sure go ahead, but there is no reason to trade him this offseason just to trade him. We don’t have a real replacement yet and we still have another year to try and develop him.
He’s also insurance for Julius Randle, whose behavior is really starting to bother me.
In my opinion, IQ is in the same tier as Herro and Poole, if not a higher tier. I don’t see why he should make less money.
While I would question whether teams around the league consider IQ and Herro in the same tier, its not an unreasonable comparison. Thing is, Poole is probably overpaid by a totally capped out perennial contender. Miami is also a sort-of contender with a true max level player to appease, so overpaying Herro made sense. I’m not sure there is that level of interest for IQ, but I guess we’ll find out.
I guess the larger point is whether it’s better to trade IQ before paying him.
If you believe in Quickley’s defense, then he seems worth the $20M AAV. Here are the guys who make between $20M and $23M this year:
Jarrett Allen
Mikal Bridges
Jerami Grant
Fred VanVleet
Terry Rozier
Nikola Vucevic
Anfernee Simmons
Malcolm Brogdon
Mike Conley
Buddy Hield
Quick is probably what, like middle of the pack in that group? I’d rather have Allen or Bridges, but considering Quick’s age and two-way ability, I’d take him over a lot of the guys in that group.
I guess the larger point is whether it’s better to trade IQ before paying him.
Pay the man. We drafted him, we developed him. We should reap the rewards of developing him instead of watching him take the next step (and the next step after that) on another team. If he was just a guy who scored pointz, then sure, let him go. But he’s more than that. He’s a two way player. He can score. He can defend. He can run PG. He rebounds.
We shouldn’t let potentially overpaying to keep RJ cloud our judgement on keeping IQ or not. We can potentially fix the RJ situation if he improves or if we trade him. If we trade IQ, we will immediately regret it.
Trading Quickley before paying him because we backed ourselves into a bit of a corner with RJ’s contract would be very shitty.
I think there’s basically no chance Quickley becomes unmovable for assets, even at $20M AAV. He can shoot at high volume and plays very good defense–even putting aside the rest of his game those two things alone are going to make him in very high demand for the foreseeable future. He’d get major minutes for 30 teams.
IQ’s an RFA…. there’s no universe where he gets let go for nothing… we will in all likelihood match whatever he gets on the open market or extend him…. if it gets down to it we work out a sign and trade with someone where we take on 3 heavily protected firsts or whatever we want to rationalize at the moment….
that’s generally where young players gets traded if at all…. which is why the prior rumors of trading him for a first made absolutely no sense and just knick bait.. this is similarly knick bait… if the knicks want him they’ll keep him and pay whatever it takes if for no other reason than to ship him off in a deal for a big fish….
the problem with that list is that everyone starts… or did start at the time when they got their money like brogdon … it’s not super rare that bench players get paid… brunson did… but that’s the question facing IQ’s market value.. most are going to view him as a sixth man type and some team is going to need to view him as a starting pg in order to get to 20mm….
When I said $20+M AAV, I didn’t put a ceiling on it at $23M, and agree that a deal in the $20-23M range is probably fine. But if you get up into the RJ range, or above that to Herro’s contract which tops out at $33M in 2026-27, that’s a somewhat different story.
In other words, any contract that doesn’t begin with a 1 is okay. But when it escalates into the $30+M range, at that point he better be much more consistent and productive than he has been. And that’s the rub. Has he pretty much topped out or is there still significant upside?
I don’t have a strong opinion, since he’s only 23. For now, let’s see how he finishes out the year. He’s a huge x-factor for us from here on out.
But that’s the thing, “similar money” won’t cut it. The Knicks will just match the offer. The only way IQ leaves the Knicks is if someone, like, maxes him or whatever, and that’s unlikely to happen. So there just isn’t a realistic situation where the Knicks would lose him. And certainly not because IQ would prefer to start.
The rotation was partially shortened to give IQ more playing time. Playing Deuce takes away minutes from one of Hart/IQ/Grimes/Brunson/RJ all of whom deserve to be out there, several of whom aren’t getting full minutes now.
I’d strongly consider replacing Obi’s minutes with Hart playing the 4 to give more minutes to Grimes or Deuce
Man college basketball is soooooo bad.
After losing tonight to Charlotte, Dallas is now the 11th seed in the West and also has the 11th worst record in the association.
Svi with 13 in the Charlotte win!
Brian, you made me look at the box score. Not only did he score 13 points but he was the starter and played 37 minutes with a +10 plus/minus. The other starting guard was DSJ.
Am starting to worry about that pick not conveying. Mavs need to win at least a few more games…
Very worried about Dallas pick not conveying. Seems like a broken team right now — so weird that they would be like that after trading team leaders and good players for a malignant narcissist who is 90% flash and 10% substance.
Re: IQ — love the guy and really hope he is a Knick for a long time. But IMHO, the extension pathway is so that players can get guaranteed money earlier than they would have without an extension. So the player is definitely getting real benefit from an extension, especially when you’re talking about a mid 20s draft pick who hasn’t made “real money” yet. The flip side of that is that the team needs to get some sort of under-market deal there — if not, then what is the purpose as far as the team is concerned, other than making the player happy? You still have the RFA matching rights (this is not like the Brunson situation — where the Mavs messed up so badly that he became an unrestricted FA).
I think the Knicks hit the right balance with Julius – coming off an all-NBA season, that was a good value deal for the Knicks and a feel-good situation for Randle. Even though it looked bad last season, the process seemed to be pretty reasonable.
The trouble is – the Knicks totally blew it by giving RJ a market-level or market+ level extension for no reason. They’re paying him more than freaking Mikal Bridges who is 5x the player RJ is. So the precedent for a market-level extension is already out there, which will complicate extension negotations with IQ.
I’d prob consider something like 4/96 as the max I’d give him in extension, knowing that the worst thing that happens is that we match it the following year or S&T him if the $ get really ridiculous.