2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Hawks – Can Mike Miller Get Back to .500?

Who are “Knicks” here though? This just means Dolan, right?

The current rumor is that the league might be trying to put their thumb on the scale to get Ujiri to the Knicks, so that’s where the “chosen one” stuff is coming from.

Elfrank Paykina

🙂

Wow, DSJ looking good. Trade him now!

This team is playing awfully spicy tonight…

WTF was that shot, Julius???

Fire Mike Miller before he saves Mills and Perry, please.

This is more like what I expected from the Knicks this year – just good enough to keep the terrible front office in charge for a few more years.

If Trae Young could play defense at all he’d be scary good because he’s scary good on offense already.

the hawks had two lottery picks in a pretty decent draft and came away with deandre hunter and cam reddish….

and the result of those mistakes is what you see on the floor right now…

Uh oh, pretty good DSJ game so far. You know what that means. This board is at high risk of becoming unusable tonight.

I’m pretty sure that’s fake news and I need new glasses

What if this team becomes functional suddenly?

Part of the scouting tonight was that Mitchell Robinson could jump the passing lanes and get breakaways. He went for three, converted one, and played effective D on the other two.

I guess team development is rarely a straight line, so a down year for the Hawks isn’t out the question.

I don’t totally hate this Hawks team long term, but if they keep doing what they are doing in 4 years we’ll be talking about how if they could just get these young kids into the 8th seed to get some experience, they could take the next step.

I prefer watching the Knicks losing by 30 with Clyde announcing than winning by 30 with Wally.

trae is electric… but he’s still far away from steph curry…

IMO, Curry is one of the greatest offensive players ever. If Trae ever gets the point where serious people are comparing him to Curry in serious conversations, Atlanta will be fine.

I love Mike Miller.

We’re up by about 30 and take a single defensive possession off and he calls a time out to straighten these slackers out!

I think we should probably look to keep Payton long term. He has to get more efficient, but he’s still young. He’s just a few years older than some of our kids. He can get better. We’ll know more in a few months.

I love good RJ games!

Come on, Morris bidding war! Imagine if a team was willing to deal something good for Randle!

Come on, Morris bidding war!

I have mixed feeling about Morris. Coming into the season I said fans were going to love him because he plays very hard and is a tough guy. But I also said he’s overrated and does some dumb things that will make you shake your head.

He’s been more controlled than I expected and I forgot that I was a fan and might fall in love with him too. He’s a good leader for the kids.

The one thing that really makes me want to move him is that his 3p% is not sustainable. When he starts throwing up bricks my temporary infatuation is going to vanish quickly.

damn I thought that RJ shot was going to get blocked

The Hawks are making Knox look good. 🙂

Mitch must have had 10 dunks tonight

He’s could be a special player but his team stinks and Luka is even better.

Luka is better, but I don’t think the difference is as large as the “hype”.

Part of what’s helping Luka this season is that he’s often playing with 4 other players that can shoot 3s and really space the court. That gives him the ability to get to the rim easier and finish/draw fouls and score very efficiently inside. He’s getting to the rim more this year and finishing way better, but imo it’s not all just because of him. When they double, he’s got an easy outlet pass to a shooter.

He’s shooting much better from mid range too but is that sustainable?

Otherwise, I think Trae is the better pure shooter and both make plays at a high level.

Doncic rebounds better, but he’s the bigger guy and that has downsides on defense if he’s forced to guard small fast PGs. Despite that, since Trae is so poor defensively Doncic probably has the edge on that side too.

Yeah, Vince was a spectacular player. Not the most efficient, but super-entertaining. Hard to believe he’s still playing relatively well at age 43.

Nice to see a win. Even if it is a win against a bad team getting worse. Although note, the Knicks actually lost to the Hawks in the last game of the preseason. Improvement?

This version of Marcus Morris (with no salary commitment after the season) has to be worth more than just a low 20s 1RP, right? I don’t see why Portland would want Kevin Love over Marcus Morris, for example.

You could argue that the lack of salary commitment makes him less valuable, since he’s purely a rental with no Bird rights.

I think it should be easier for a team like Portland, who is giving real minutes to Kent Bazemore, to commit to a 30 year old
Marcus Morris at $15M for the year instead of going after 31 year old Kevin Love and having $90M in salary tied to Lillard, McCollum, and Love. Teams like Denver, Portland, Sacramento and Houston should all have a lot of interest in Morris. I think his best fit might be in Miami where he and Jimmy Buckets can beat everybody up, but somebody has to be willing to pay up for this guy. He plays both ends of the court, he’s tough, and he’s reasonably priced.

yeah, that was a wierd game…can’t remember the last time I stopped watching a game cuz we were blowing someone out…

I’m with a lot of you, I knew collins was important for atlanta, no idea though that he was that important or could make such a big difference…

Very weird that the Knicks seem to be a little more competent with someone who can do the most basic things associated with being a point guard. I was explicitly told this wouldn’t be the case. What gives?

I’m not sure what Millet is doing differently on offense than Fizdsle, other then maybe working harder to get good matchups, but I just cannot imagine the team scoring this many points under Fizdale.

The Knicks are definitely angling to trade DSJ asap. There was no need for DSJ to play anything other than garbage minutes last night, but there he was- and playing decent ball to boot. Folks, get ready for a showcase. If the team is indeed gonna do this, I wonder if Miller should move Ntilikina to the backup SG, and insert Payton in his place. I don’t necessarily like a Payton/DSJ pairing because they both need the ball more than Ntilikina does to be effective. Plus, DSJ/Ntilikina is probably our most complementary backcourt combo. I like Payton and Trier too, but I’m way more intrigued by DSJ/Ntilikina

Teams like Denver, Portland, Sacramento and Houston should all have a lot of interest in Morris. I think his best fit might be in Miami where he and Jimmy Buckets can beat everybody up, but somebody has to be willing to pay up for this guy.

Miami has no picks to trade but I would gladly offer Morris for Herro and take back Waiters’ dead money for them. In fact I would take that over just about any deal involving a contender’s pick.

Just spitballing the trade machine….. Denver isn’t good enough or deep enough to make a real run especially depending on 34 yr old Millsap who can’t play >24 minutes now. Randle and Morris for Millsap and some combo of Bol Bol/ picks or MPJr?????

Or maybe Charlotte wants to make the playoffs this year…. Morris and DSJr for M Williams and this year’s unprotected #1?

Yesterday I suggested trading Portis for Waiters in order to get assets, but just now I compared their stats. I was shocked how much better Portis’s are. And he’s still only 24. I retract the suggestion.

Morris for Herro is a no-brainer.

I think the obvious trade partner is in Portland. They are trying to get to the playoffs with Kent Bazemore getting real minutes as a starter. By April they should have the best center depth in basketball, but they need to get actual NBA players on that team if they want to give Lillard a shot to take it home. They also have some interesting young players like Simons, Collins, and Little to go along with a 1RP. We could offer them something like Bullock and Morris for Bazemore, Nasir Little, and their 1RP, and that could give us 2 top 20 picks to add to a presumptive youth group of Knox, Ntilikina, Smith Jr, Barrett, Robinson, Brazdeikis, and Nasir Little.

If we play .500 ball the rest of the season, – we’ll end up 34:48. This may prove to be worse than the atrocious Fizdale hire for our rebuild. Cant’t believe I’m saying this but I’m beginning to miss Emmanuel Mudiay, Enes Kanter and David Fizdale already.

For all the folks in NBA circles that commend Fiz for being a “fine young coach” and whatnot, how is it that Mike Miller has flown under the radar for so long? Obviously he’s coaching better than Fiz did, so you can argue he’s a much better coach. I’m still not ready to have a funeral for Fiz’ coaching skills, but Miller is clearly doing a superior job. I guess this is a chicken or the egg type argument. Is Miller that much better or did he see something as an assistant that he is merely taking advantage of now? If he saw something as an assistant, he can’t implement it himself because you don’t wanna go over the HC’s head. But, if he mentioned whatever he’s seen to Fiz, that is also horrible management by the HC. I have hopes for Fiz as a young coach, but (I’m gonna regret this) maybe Mills is right in firing Fiz for incompetence. Unfortunately, that may save Mills’ job, soooo…..ooof!

BR is reporting the wolves are interested in DSJR; ill happily take an unprotected first.

It’s going to be hard to use the guys on our roster to trade for promising young players on good teams unless those players aren’t really playing. I’d love to do that Herro deal, but Miami wants to win now and Herro is playing 30 minutes a night for them-they’re not shipping him out for Marcus Morris because they’d need to make more moves to find a Herro replacement.

Morris would take Herro’s minutes. They would be a little bigger and more “battle tested”, if they think that’s a thing. But I can see how that might not be enough.

How much do you value Herro? You could expand the trade to include Bobby Portis for James Johnson. That effectively makes the trade (from Miami’s POV) Tyler Herro for Marcus Morris now and $32mm in cap space this summer. I like Herro but that seems more than an adequate price.

I love the idea anyone would trade an unprotected first for Smith but if that’s how the NBA works right now I don’t know much about anything….

There is no reason for the Knicks to trade Dennis Smith Jr to Minnesota. This is probably just a front office leak to make DSJr play a little better.

Clarence Gaines
@ClarenceGaines2
Some will say I’m a Monday Morning QB, but since I said it before the 2018 draft & I’m watching
@23savage kick the @ATLHawks asses, I’ll never understand how a team with 3 1st round draft picks passed on him 3 times – favor smiled on @nyknicks that night – still SMDH!

There is no reason for the Knicks to trade Dennis Smith Jr to Minnesota. This is probably just a front office leak to make DSJr play a little better.

For a 1st round pick? I do it in 2 seconds. Have you watched this guy the whole season? He’s one of the dumbest PG’s I’ve ever seen play and his shot is basically broken.

No offense to the guys who put up big numbers last night, but the Hawks played defense like it was a summer league game. But if the Wolves watched that and decided DSJR is their man, please send us a 1st rounder and ignore all the other dreadful performances.

Marcus Morris fits the 2019-20 Miami Heat playoff run like a glove, so I wouldn’t put the chances of Herro at literally zero — but they’re not high. I’d be ecstatic if the Knicks were able to get him, which means it’s guaranteed not to happen.

DSJ for a first rounder is also a no-brainer. You say yes to that in a millisecond. Never going to happen.

@90 & 91.

The POBO in Minnesota is a Darryl Morey disciple. There is no way in hell he is giving up significant draft capital to get his hands on one of the worst point guards in the NBA who also plays bad defense. Minnesota is probably offering a 2021 2RP, and that doesn’t help the Knicks’ front office at all when you consider their jobs are on the line. Maybe they give up Naz Reid who is a good prospect to be Mitch’s back up full time, and we only have one center on the roster so I can make sense of that. Other than Naz Reid, what do the Wolves have that we would legitimately want for the price of our 3rd string point guard? I can’t see Minnesota making an offer that New York would take seriously unless they really want a second 2RP this year, but a top 45 pick may be more valuable than DSJr at this point.

I’d trade DSJr for a 2RP, move Kadeem Allen to the big league roster full time and give Tony Wooten the 2nd two way contract, but I don’t think the Knicks are worried enough about losing Wooten to make that kind of a trade.

If Gersson Rosas is dumb enough to trade Josh Okogie (a year younger, one more year of cost control, and a better basketball player) for Dennis Smith Jr, you take his money every single time. I don’t think he is that dumb.

Breaking news: Knicks hired David Blatt as a “basketball operations consultant” whatever the fk that is

Dallas put Denis Smith Jr on the block loud and clear before the Porzingis trade. The story was that they were asking for a 1st round pick. There were no takers. If anything, his market value is much lower now than when Dallas was trying to unload him.

You can see his innate athletic gifts and talents. That’s what makes him enticing when he has a good game, but it doesn’t translate into consistent positive production on the court on either side. Combine that what seems like a low basketball IQ and a tendency to get down and sulk when things aren’t going well and it’s hard to see him becoming more than a mediocre backup (not to mention the bad back). I’m not sure he’s a better prospect than Mudiay.

I’d take a couple of 2nd rounders and run.

Isn’t Blatt a friend of Mills?

This could be a Mills attempt to get some help running things and salvage his job.

Mike Miller wins a couple games and now Mills is off the hot seat? Come on.

Knicks hired David Blatt as a “basketball operations consultant.”

If he explains to someone the benefits of spacing the floor by not playing three power forwards, I’m all for it.

Occam’s Razor: Mills is doing a solid for a longtime friend in ill health.

Dolan’s Razor (weak form): Mills is empire building in the hopes of building something harder to remove.

Dolan’s Razor (strong form): Mills was given assurances he’s ok and is peacocking.

Fascinating Porzingis article:

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/18/21027309/kristaps-porzingis-dallas-mavericks-luka-doncic

On the one hand, it’s Strat’s wet dream. He could have ghost written this himself:

The problem is that there is an opportunity cost that comes with Luka’s style of play. Time with the ball is zero-sum. The more one player has it, the less for everyone else. It can be hard for the point guard’s teammates to get into a rhythm when he’s dribbling the ball into the ground.

Of course, when you boil it down, what Tjarks is really saying is that Porzingis is finally doing well because he’s allowed the Mavs to turn him into a 2nd and 3rd option. Which is great, except he’s on a max contract. Most of us always conceded that Porzingis would be a great 3rd wheel. His problem was being paid like a star.

It’s not possible that Dolan brought Blatt in … is it? Yeah, it’s Mills’s relationship, but that also means Blatt could be the one to tell Mills to go bye-bye and ease the fall and then help Dolan in the transition to the new POBO.

I realize this is probably wishcasting and almost certainly childish dreaming, but the empirical reality on the ground is that you could replace Mills with Blatt this second and it would be a big upgrade.

Blatt should be in a coaching developmental role for now. He should spend all of his time with Mike Miller and if he can teach RJ Barrett to shoot free throws then let him do that too.

I had no idea Blatt was sick. He was ridiculously accomplished overseas, and to have had his NBA career derailed by one superstar tells you everything you need to know about leverage in the NBA.

Looks like he has primary progressive MS, which means not only does he have these neurological plaques causing the MS neurological deficits, he doesn’t get a little better after each episode, but rather establishes a new baseline. Whereas MS is usually characterized as ‘sawtooth progression’ – getting a little better between episodes, but deteriorating chronically – he’s got PPMS, which is basically stepwise deterioration. Horrible.

I guess this means he’s here on a consultant basis, which is great all around

@112

I think this old saw about ball movement is just a bunch of eye test nonsense from Tjarks et al. Year to year there’s near non-existent correlation between how many players touch the ball on a given possession and offensive efficiency. What really matters is whether you have elite offensive players–irrespective if they’re elite because they share the ball or because they’re amazing iso scorers.

See this thread for example e.g.: https://twitter.com/knarsu3/status/1180624616273911809?s=20

Perhaps there’s not something in the data set that might make the difference. But an argument from ignorance is pretty weak here. Style of play isn’t what’s going to determine whether or not you have an elite offense, and one way of doing it isn’t inherently better than any other, contra Strat.

That said, I will say offenses with high amounts of ball movement are way more aesthetically pleasing, so I prefer them on those grounds rather than watching Harden take contested stepbacks and go to the line 20 times a game.

Of the players the Knicks signed in the offseason, I was most pleased with getting Elfrid Payton and Marcus Morris. I liked Taj too, as a stopgap. None of the others were interesting. I wasn’t a big Randle fan.

I’ve been touting a rebuild from within. Let’s get a core of solid roleplayers in-house that makes a free agent think “if I’m added to that team, we can do some real damage”. So I’m against trading Morris and Payton. While I want to give Payton more time, I actually want to extend Morris now. Trade Smith Jr, Ellington, Randle, Portis and all those others but build a base with those others.

That’s right

Is DSjr better than Jerian Grant? Is Frank?

Surprised that guy doesn’t have a job in the NBA, His numbers haven’t been terrible.

The problem is that there is an opportunity cost that comes with Luka’s style of play. Time with the ball is zero-sum. The more one player has it, the less for everyone else. It can be hard for the point guard’s teammates to get into a rhythm when he’s dribbling the ball into the ground.

This is unquestionably the point I have been making regarding Luka.

When one player totally dominates the ball, he’s going to wind up with more shots and get more assist opportunities. If he happens to be a great offensive player like Luka, he can still be very efficient. However, that does not mean there aren’t “x” possessions per game where he’s throwing up terrible shots, making ill advised passes, or hurting the possession by dribbling too much and stifling ball movement. There may even be some shots where he’s 50% that could be 55% or 60% if he simply moved the ball.

To me, Luka is on the wrong end of that curve even if the net of all of what he’s doing on offense so far has been amazing. IMO, the team would be better if he toned down the heroic shots and passes and just tried to get better ball and player movement.

It’s obviously not easy to be perfect in this regard.

We’ve seen Lebron James get criticized for making the extra pass and for not making the extra pass. But still, if James wanted to average 35 and 12 he could do it no problem. He’s simply smart enough not to do it.

Il n’est pas M. Ntilikina. Rien de plus.

oh yeah, give us some more of that sexy french talk E…

@129

You didn’t respond to anything about the correlations but a cursory trawl through bref will reveal the following NBA champions who weren’t all that notable at moving the ball:

18-19 Toronto Raptors: #11 in ast/100 possessions
15-16 Cavs: #10
2011-2012 Miami Heat: #21
09-10 Lakers #16
07-08 Celtics: #8
05-06 Heat: #15
this can replicate throughout league history.

You might make an argument that the *best* teams of all time emphasize ball movement. But that’s not a response to the argument at all, because the best teams of all time were good at everything! Including…elite iso scoring (hello Michael Jordan). It’s not a matter of ball movement being inherently superior. Eye test foiled again.

So classic knickerblogger:
Luka Don?i? is arguably the best point guard in the NBA today (noting that Steph Curry is out), but some folks are arguing that he may be a negative.

This is classic Knickerblogger and a kind of stuff that makes me want to move on. smh

No one on planet earth said that Doncic is a negative. They are suggesting he’s not maximizing his positive talents for the benefit of the team. On offense, let’s say his talents are currently a 9 on a scale of 1-10 (with Durant and Curry being a 10), he’s only achieving 8.5 by being overly aggressive in his shot and pass selection. With a minor tweak he’s a 9 and his team is better. So do it!

Everyone including Phil Jackson said Porzingis was not ready to be the #1 option on the Knicks when he was thrown to the wolves in his last season here. He wasn’t (and may still not be) strong enough inside, had no idea how to handle double teams once they inevitably came his way, and doesn’t have a very good mid range game. That’s why they called him a project when drafted and that’s why people got so high on him when he was more productive than expected early on.

What he can do is shoot 3s, finish at the basket off lobs and OREBs, and hit free throws at a high rate (assuming he’s 100% which he has not been so far this season).

Those are enough tools to be a highly efficient reasonably high usage offensive player that defends well and protects the rim great IF used properly (big IF).

I’ll give you all that.

But such a player is worth around 4 years, $70mm. I would have always been happy to sign Porzingis to a contract in line with who he is.

Dallas is only getting away with the overpay because Luka is giving them mega max value on a rookie deal and it averages out.

KnickfaninNJ, that’s a good point in 91 re: during Perry’s tenure this FO has not leaked. They just don’t do it. And now it’s leaking like something very leaky indeed. Yesterday’s article about “the Knicks” thinking Ujiri is the chosen one, DSj trade rumors, ect. I suspect Mills & Perry have lost control of the FO. Hiring Blatt isn’t a sign of job security, it’s doing his pal a solid while he still can. “The Knicks” is Dolan, that’s who’s really in charge now. DSj trade rumors? Leaking from Dolan’s crew. Buckle up boys and girls and nondeterminents, Jimmy D is back behind the wheel.

the highest team ORTG since the league merger

This is the thing to me. Like if you want to build an argument around the fact that Luka probably isn’t literally perfect as a basketball player I guess you’re probably right. But if you’re arguing that he’s hogging the ball on offense it seems like your argument needs to cope with the fact that his ball hogging (which by definition makes the team results largely a result of his personal play) is leading to a historically great offense. Could they be even more historically great-er if Luka gave up the ball more? Hard to argue against a counterfactual but you’re not going to convince me the balance he’s striking is very far off right now because the results 100% speak for themselves.

“Team play” and “ball movement” are great and all but there’s some point at which it reaches fetishization, where it just becomes a meaningless old man sports cliche. A point we have obviously reached here.

@123

He’s not even worth the money we’re currently paying him. We’ve done this song and dance before and no one has come. Let’s just do a proper rebuild for once in the last 30 years of franchise history please. Then FAs will come.

I would argue he is good. Yes, he’s north of 30 and has 3-4 good years left.

We’ve done the kiddie thing for 4 years and all we really have out of it are Mitch and now RJ. Are Frank, Knox and Dotson replacement level? Even if you consider KP, is he a superstar? So you’re advocating 3 more years of tanking, is that it? All it takes in the NBA are 1 or 2 star players that are added to a decent base to make a team competitive. We’ve got like 7 kids on the roster. What do you want, 12?

Nope, I’m sticking with it. No one can be dumb enough to think that turning this optimistically forecast 20 win team into a 2020-21 25 win team (with nebulous factors like “cohesion” and “chemistry”!) is a good idea. Please reconsider what you’re saying for the two seconds that it should take to come to the correct conclusion.

I’m knocking every wooden object in my vicinity to ensure that I didn’t just speak Dolan’s razor into existence.

Dear God, we’re going to try to re-sign Morris, aren’t we?

I mean, everytime a historically great player comes up there’s always the people who think they’re super cool and intelligent by going “against the consensus”. It happened with the idiotic “LeBron is not clutch” arguments, it happened with Curry because his playstyle was ruining the young kids who now only want to shoot 3s, Durant who is a “pussy”, Giannis who can’t shoot, Harden who is a foul baiter, etc etc. It happened before them with Dirk who wasn’t clutch, Duncan who was boring to watch, and the list goes on and on.

It will happen with Doncic and it’s already happening as we speak, he doesn’t play defense, he’s a “ball hog”, he takes bad shots because he wants to make highlights… and just like all the guys I mentioned, it’s just bullshit nitpicking that either means nothing or is a biased opinion with some agenda, like trying hard to overstate KP’s and the Mavs role players importance. It really is nothing new.

2015-16 Curry*

Let’s be real.
Luka is not as good as Captain America.

Maybe you nerds didn’t see on your spreadsheet that the Mavs knocked off the best team in the East without Luka?

Kendrick Nunn a +19 in the Heat victory over Philly. Wish I had watched that one.

pixs or diden’t happen

Clarke with 27 points on 19 FGA in 25 minutes. God damn.

Luka is not as good as Captain Marvel

Luka is not as good as Captain’s Gig, who set a track record at Aqueduct in ’67.

Luka is not as good as Captain America.

At least he doesn’t cheat in the bunker

@163

+1

that looks delicious…

what’s the green thing dred?

it kind of looks like the bottom half of one of them sweet jerkins kinda pickles…

Oh by the way Brandon Clarke is now the league leader in ts% this season, just over .700, averaging 22 points and 10 rebounds per36.

ahhhhh, so there is a pickle on your pizza…cooking is without a doubt the greatest combination of science and art – ever…

it can look magnificent, and then you eat it…

Oh by the way Brandon Clarke is now the league leader in ts% this season, just over .700, averaging 22 points and 10 rebounds per36.

other than the grizz and heat – are there any other teams that did really well the past draft…

just checked…SI mentions rui (wiz) and washington (hornets)…

Still love the Nuggets snagging Bol Bol in rd 2 despite having no other picks.

Dallas to the extent this year’s pick contributed to getting Luka (lol, hawks turned it into Cam Reddish which I will never get over)

Other than that, I don’t think evaluating the draft in the first year yields much info, particularly with the trend to go younger and younger.

RJs defense has been better than I thought which was my biggest reservation about picking him 3. I don’t put much stock in efficiency the first year, but RJ needs to step up some of the secondary numbers which have also been dropping.

DRed: the green thing is a pickled pepper

Who picked it?

Do you deliver DRed.

I just picked up a 6.75 quart Le Creuset ceramic coated cast iron dutch oven. I can’t wait to make a batch of beef bourguignon in it. I’m going to give it a shot this weekend I think.

That’s a beautiful pizza DRed.

My own research into pizza-making led me to conclude that there was almost no VORP (value over replacement pizza) to be extracted there. My neighborhood is by no means a hub, but there are multiple very good pies available for <$30 in <30 minutes. There are so many other things where the only substitute for a well-made home-cooked version is an expensive night out at a restaurant that the juice just didn't seem worth the squeeze. But maybe that's just because I never made a pizza good enough. This has to be the right crowd for an analytical approach for where to focus your cooking efforts though, right?

This has to be the right crowd for an analytical approach for where to focus your cooking efforts though, right?

Have you ever used pizza flour with a pizza steel and good ingredients? I make Neapolitan-esque pizzas for about $7 a pop. They cook in about 8 minutes. From start to finish (including cheese, basil, tomato prep) it takes about half an hour to pop out three good pies.

If you’ve only ever used all-purpose flour for your crust, there’s the issue. I do a 24-hour fermentation and measure the weight (and, for water, temperature) of the ingredients to the gram. It’s not very hard though, requiring only a small bit of precision.

Is it easier than picking up the phone? No, but I think my fresh pizza is better than one that’s been sitting in a box for twenty-plus minutes since it came out of the oven.

It’s not easy to find good pizza in LA but the tacos and pho kind of make up for it

yeah, I mean I can walk to Lucali’s if I want better pizza but I also like doing my own pizzas because I like to do non-traditional stuff and you can make pizza whenever you want.

Imma get my sis to send me NY tap water so i can use that to make the dough.

This is a myth, right?

I mean, it’s a fact that the source of NY tap water has changed over time and it’s also a fact that what’s in NY tap water has changed over time. Yet we still make the same great pizza.

@190

Yeah, it’s a myth. It’s not the softness of the water or anything like that that makes NY pizza the best. I think the real answer is just that NY has the most competition, and has the best access to specialty suppliers for quality ingredients. So the answer, essentially, is that they’ve been doing it the longest.

I think I also heard the tale about NY water and bagels. Doesn’t all the water come from the Catskill tunnels with some portion via Croton?

Not to interrupt a good pizza discussion (I love the stuff but have eschewed carbs 4 years ago) listening to the Lowe Post he and Woj dropped a little tidbit almost at the end, namely, the Knicks signed Morris intentionally to screw SA for tampering with KP at one time.

Maybe I’ve been sleeping under a rock but I never heard that before and IF it is true SA wanting KP certainly adjusts one’s thinking about KP’s future (maybe?)

Imagine spending $15M on a rental just out of spite

DRed

That pizza could have looked quite a bit better…

That pizza could have looked quite a bit better…

put up (pics) or…well, you know the rest…

From the rumors, the Spurs were waaaaaaaaay more aggressive than any team has the right to be with their tampering with KP. It’s believed that the whole “We’ll just take the QO” play came from them, for instance. It didn’t help them get KP, of course, but it still fucked with the Knicks.

One of the most NBA things out there is that teams are trying to convince the Pelicans to trade them JJ Redick. No one would sign the guy this offseason, but they all want to trade for him.

the pizza thing is definitely not the water… it’s really because of how it’s evolved as the goto option for on the go ny’ers… we’ve been doing it for a long time and even 30 yrs ago you couldn’t go a city block without running into a half decent pizza shop…. it doesn’t really have much to do with even the quality of the ingredients because you can be quite forgiving if you’re hungry enough or poor enough for a slice that’s coming straight out of the oven…. you can just look at the success of the 99c shops that replaced all the paper plate options citywide… but our institutionalized pizza joints are still the cream of the crop anywhere in the world…

most other things we had a reputation for work a similar way only they’re not nearly as ubiquitous as pizza is and the rest of the world caught up as word spread and it became a nationwide thing.. we were known before the internet for our hot dog street vendors too… but that lie thankfully died a couple generations ago…. our bagels are overrated…. the large majority of our bagels are frozen anyway and there are places that replicate it quite easily or do it better… and pastrami is better in boston…

la definitely has better asian and mexican food… and most of the mid and low tier food options in fact….i would kill to have anything like porto’s here in ny….

From the rumors, the Spurs were waaaaaaaaay more aggressive than any team has the right to be with their tampering with KP. It’s believed that the whole “We’ll just take the QO” play came from them, for instance. It didn’t help them get KP, of course, but it still fucked with the Knicks.

I guess the implication being that they made a promise to KP that they’d make him a max offer after his QO season regardless of what happened during the year, removing the risk for him?

For one thing that promise, if it was made doesn’t seem particularly credible to me. Part of the reason KP taking the QO seemed so far-fetched was just how extreme the downside risk for him was. Another serious knee injury and he could have been looking at something like the one-year below mid-level make good deals that Cousins has gotten the last couple years. If he kept getting hurt he’d never get close to recouping the lost earnings. For San Antonio to promise him the max before that year no matter what would be hard for me to buy.

For another thing, I just don’t understand how San Antonio isn’t on the trade list in that case. They were prepared to offer him some illegal and extremely risky max deal a year in advance and in return, when he demanded to be traded, that wasn’t even one of the places he wanted to go. The whole story just seems super fishy.

I think they put the idea out there to him. He didn’t go for it, but it got the idea of using the QO for leverage to get off the Knicks into his head. So while it didn’t help the Spurs, it still hurt the Knicks, so the Knicks are mad at the Spurs either way.

Ashokan Reservoir feeds the city

I once made a wrong turn on a trip up to the catskills and stumbled upon this reservoir. It’s a breathtaking scene. Great hiking and cycling around there.

Fun fact: David Bowie bought a home in Shokan (the town near the reservoir). It’s a very small community, and one of my old clients used to live there. According to him, Bowie carried himself there like a regular joe. He’d introduce himself as David to the neighbors. Shop in town for groceries, etc.

Ashokan is only one of the three reservoirs, though. We also get water from the Croton and Delaware aqueducts. We get a mix of all three, which is why I tend to think the NY water thing is a myth. How could all three produce the same results but no other water can?

Bowie’s wife is a self-important asshole. I dated a girl from Woodstock for three years, her mom manages one of the local hotspots and knows everyone (we went to a Levon Helm Midnight Ramble for free, for instance). Every story I heard about her was, “Wow, she’s so pretty! On the outside!”

I think they put the idea out there to him. He didn’t go for it, but it got the idea of using the QO for leverage to get off the Knicks into his head. So while it didn’t help the Spurs, it still hurt the Knicks, so the Knicks are mad at the Spurs either way.

Just the idea? Like they explained the way the collective bargaining agreement works to him? And that’s considered going way over the line? It’s not a particularly novel idea – the reason players don’t do it isn’t because nobody has ever thought of this before. They don’t do it because it’s insanely risky and would’ve been like doubly or triply so for a guy already coming off an ACL tear.

I mean, KP’s agent is his brother Janis so it’s not like he’s necessarily well-versed in negotiation or even the CBA. He may have legitimately benefited from an explanation of the basics.

Or the Knicks are just trying to save face…

bagels are overrated imo. it’s just too damn much. rather have some killer dave’s bread, a baguette from a place like vons, english muffins (brand agnostic), or some phylo dough.

KBPR you can stop right there

Some Bagels are huge now. They used to all be a smaller size than is common now. I like the smaller bagels better (that is, when I eat carbs) but they are hard to find fresh now.

In other news, looks like James Wiseman has left Memphis and will prepare for the NBA draft on his own.

ny bagels are definitely good… i just don’t think it’s the mecca of bagels like we are for pizza… i’ve had good ny style bagels in multiple states… va being the most recent… and montreal def has very good and comparable bagels if not diff style.. what ny has going for it is the volume and proximity… i can get one of the best bagels in the world within 30 minutes anywhere within nyc….

@cock jowles — I will die on this hill. in the world of bean-based drinks, bagels are the instant coffee. sure, its good enough for the soldiers… but i’ve got choices… after the age of 30, i’ve moved on. croissants have less calories gawd damn.

Dude you’re allowed to have your own tastes and its subjective and all that but god you’re so wrong shut your glazed phyllo face ass before i make you

The best bagel in the world is Monmouth Hot Bagels in Long Branch NJ dont @ me

That place is great. Are you from Monmouth county? Bagel Oven in Red Bank used to be my go-to when I lived there. Grandma’s Bagels in Little Silver had the best PREC tho.

It’s difficult getting good (or any) pork roll outside NJ.

I dated a girl from Woodstock for three years, her mom manages one of the local hotspots and knows everyone (we went to a Levon Helm Midnight Ramble for free, for instance)

I’m from Woodstock and the Ramble is right behind my house. Ok, who is this girl? Chances I know her around 100%.

Geez…
The pizza looked great.
It was sarcasm. Like Doncic could be better.

Geo, Owen, et al, smh.
lol

I met Bowie when I was a young musician and he was really kind. It was one of the very few times I’ve been star stuck and didn’t know what to say. Also because I was thinking, how can I get him to listen to my CD?, which is just stupid.

As for pizza, married someone with celiac, and both kids have celiac, so…oh well. Though I’ll be having Waldy’s tonight.

How about some Veal Tikka Masala

my apologies frank o…if anyone should be aware of not taking anything serious, it should be me…

I stand now in a corner in shame…forgive me please 🙂

okay, back to iman…not sure how if you’ve ever happened upon one of her qvc or hsn things you could imagine her being even remotely “cool” people…

shit, she must be a 100 by now, and, still looks pretty damn respectable…

she could be a bitch all day, but, I’m still available for her – at least for a good 15 minutes or so every few days…

I’m tickled by the feelings caught on bagels. Thanks everyone for giving me a smile.

I’ll toast some slices of French bread (@$0.75 for the loaf) on my cast iron. Put a little butter in there so that is well absorbed. Top it off with some temptee, slices of red onion, and pastrami lox. Voila. Gabagool. Frank sux

My big bread-adjacent tip is to remove egg whites from your french toast. Brown sugar, warm whole milk, cinnamon, nutmeg, egg yolks, melted butter and a tiny bit of vanilla extract. The egg whites are holding you back.

original, perr-reviewed research that the pepperoni varietal is not the best invention since antibiotics

As hot soppresatta is empirically superior as a topping in both flavor and texture I really enjoyed how you put ol’ Ted Nelson in his place.

I can walk to Lucali’s if I want better pizza but I also like doing my own pizzas because I like to do non-traditional stuff and you can make pizza whenever you want.

And if you factor in the wait it takes hardly anymore time. This is why I’d rather just go to Guiseppina’s. At least until I developed lactose intolerance. I don’t even miss pizza that much. But the Stilton and the Roquefort, some days get real hard.

And if you factor in the wait it takes hardly anymore time.

There’s a really good place here in SE Portland called Apizza Scholls and I think the guy who runs it is originally from NYC or Philly, but makes New Haven-style pies. Amazing crust, and not prohibitively expensive. However, I’ll be damned if I’m doing a no-reservations style free-for-all at 6:30 on a Saturday for the privilege. Last time we waited there, we ordered an overpriced drink at the bar (which was packed) and stood crushed like sardines for an hour. There’s a taco place next door called Por Que No and they have never not had a line going down the block. For tacos. Street tacos. $4.50 street tacos. Fuck and no. I can make enough carnitas for a goddamn Quinceanera for about twenty bucks.

I’ve definitely stood in line at places like Rainbow Falafel but that was only like 15 minutes at their busiest. I’ve done the wait for Lucali a couple times but I just can’t convince myself it’s worth it when Guiseippina’s is run by his brother and is mostly the same. Sauce is slightly sweeter, but no lines. With the proliferation of online reservation services there’s no excuse for popular places not to implement reservations. Even spots like Atera use Open Table! Forcing people to invest time instead of forethought is the worst kind of backwards elitism.

My big bread-adjacent tip is to remove egg whites from your french toast

Ooh that’s a good one, I am totally doing that from now on

I can’t even link youtube
Is this possible ?
Wtf !

Don’t try to do just a link, write something about it. Just a link might get hung up on the strange moderation rules.

Thanks both of you but…it doesn’t seem to work

The easiest way was written above.

Write the words that you want to appear as a hyperlink.

Select those words with your cursor. Click “link” above.

Add the link to the box that appears. Voila.

Ooh that’s a good one, I am totally doing that from now on

I also bake the bread (preferably day-old) in a 250 degree oven for about 10 minutes, flipping halfway. This will get rid of some of the excess moisture and give you more saturation of the custard. It’s definitely not necessary but a good tip I picked up from ATK, especially if the bread is fresh. Fresh bread will have way too much moisture to absorb the batter.

My go-to is melted cultured butter (European style, in many supermarkets), slightly warmed whole milk or a splash of heavy cream, brown sugar, cinnamon, nutmeg, splash of vanilla. It’s the best french toast I’ve had. I love egg whites but refuse to include them in my french toast now. It makes them gummy. I’m all for eggs in a basket or whatever, but not when I want rich custardy bread pudding squares.

Thank you all but…
No.
It’s Not Happening.

THCJ – Apizza Scholls does reservations now. It’s so much easier. Agree on Por Que No? hugely overrated, their tacos aren’t worth the price or the wait.

Can you test just posting a link to anything instead of a photo?

I’ve never felt less worthy of this incredible board.

IM(very)HO, The thing about NYC is not the big ticket items or the hot places but the proliferation. The idea that you can pick any place on any block and it kicks ass on anything in this icy god forsaken burg I’ve ended up in 😉 Just give me a plate of chicken and broccoli from any spot on 2nd avenue between 60th and 96th street. My favorite bagel was a flat one from my old neighborhood in Queens (Queens BLVD near Union Turnpike) Made by Koreans…

As to cooking, when anyone prefaces a recipe with “on the first night…” I’m done. LOL

As to Knicks. I love watching wins but realize that I should still be rooting for losses…

Thanks for winning the internet folks. I am in your debt…

As to Knicks. I love watching wins but realize that I should still be rooting for losses…

Losing isn’t as valuable as it used to be. Feel good about the wins…. According to Dolan’s Razor, we can’t get a pick higher than 3 anyway.

As to cooking, when anyone prefaces a recipe with “on the first night…” I’m done. LOL

But it’s often an easy step. Like making pizza dough — it takes me less than 3 minutes to mix. I let it rest for 20m. I remove and knead it for one minute, place it in an oiled dough tub. Two hours later I remove it, cut it into thirds, and work them into dough balls onto floured plates, maybe 5m total work. Then I put them in the fridge for another 24 hours and remove at least a half hour before I want to make the pizza. So if anything, it’s the fact that I have to think about the dough that is the consuming part. The active work is minimal — washing the dishes takes longer than actually handling the damn dough!

It’s very simple, just requires a little forethought. Salting meat should be the same approach. Take the five minutes to rub your roasting chicken or ribeye with kosher salt and let it sit in the fridge overnight. The salt will penetrate the meat and dry out the exterior for a perfect sear. If you leave them uncovered in the fridge, they’ll lose even more moisture (which is a good thing, since you usually don’t want to boil meat). Worth the time investment.

Seriously why must Brodie Van Wagenen ruin my life?

Hate-watching the Raiders kind of panned out though, so I got that going for me

Brodie made no moves. He let Zack Wheeler leave and replaced him with garbage, and that’s been the offseason so far.

Today they say he’s out on Lindor.

That would be very BVW though. Rosario played very well down the stretch and ended up with 2.7 WAR, not too far behind Lindor’s 4.4. Rosario has more years of control left and is two years younger than Lindor, and it would shock pretty much nobody if Rosario put up 4+ WAR himself next year.

Filling holes that don’t exist while ignoring the actual holes: the BVW way!

But he worked hard on the Cespedes contract restructuring. Then again that was about subtracting and saving money. Nevermind

I have no doubt that the Heat are going to smash the Knicks. The game I’m keeping an eye on is Pels/Dubs. This could be a great opportunity for the Warriors to catch up a bit. I assume that Zion and Curry will pull both of them up a lot once they’re healthy, but we need a cushion. You know the Knicks will go .500 in April and piss all of us off.

Will Curry even play this season? I think the Warriors are going to slow play his return as much as possible and I wouldn’t be surprised to see that he had “complications” in his recovery or opted to get some minor surgery so they keep tanking.

THCJ – I do still live here in Portland. You’re still as well, right?

Thanks for the responses 280, 281, 282.

Yes, Rama, it’s amazing how any win can be so intoxicating as to get you right off your tanking stance and bullish on signing Marcus Morris long term.

Bo, My mom sold her place in Queens and is in Manhattan now, which I love, but I do miss the culture there. Chinatown in Flushing is amazing. Kung Fu Soup Buns, maybe the best in the city.

Jowles. I’m like a short order cook but I may take on a project now that I feel inspired. Just a bit of forethought goes a long way, I agree. I hate the feeling of throwing something together last minute and love watching my crew gobble down my food when I do a good job.

love watching my crew gobble down my food when I do a good job.

awwwww, yes, there is something very primal in preparing and serving food for those you love…it can be a bit of work and effort, but, watching them enjoy definitely is a feel good type thing…

this had me smiling all morning:

this icy god forsaken burg I’ve ended up in 😉

i’m sure it all looks beautiful – just really really cold…was leaving out of work the other day and saw in my car the outdoor temp was 51 degrees…man, it felt like 40 below…i had to remind myself i was from new york at one time, and i shouldn’t really be this cold…it didn’t work…

I’m using a cellphone.

i’m sure it can be done off your phone – i haven’t solved that riddle yet though…

it’s something to do with the url you’re provided from the photo upload site/app that isn’t quite formatted “correctly” when you try to paste it in to the link function…

no doubt there’s an “easy” solution to make it all happen – i gave up a while ago though trying to figure it out…

you can do it though knew your knicks…and, then you can explain it to me so we both know 🙂

@ 300 Geo I don’t think it has cracked 25 in the NYC Metro area all week. It’s pretty disheartening to see your phone record temps in the teens when you get up.

2 degrees when I got in the car this morning! Decent food here in Manchester tho…

@ 300 Geo I don’t think it has cracked 25 in the NYC Metro area all week. It’s pretty disheartening to see your phone record temps in the teens when you get up.

that’s what makes ya’ll some hearty folks though…it’s easy to get soft out here…man, i can’t even begin to imagine how far my constitution might dip if i was off living in hawaii…

only been there once – i’ll never forget returning to the states (was living in monterey at the time – not a bad spot to be in either) and immediately thought what the hell is wrong me – i should be living full time in maui…

unfortunatley i was never ablet o puzzle it all out…hell, wasn’t even able to maintain my spot in monterey (i will return to live at some point though)…

i’m out here now in the inland “empire” – ha, yeah right…in a nice quite town that actually has trees (you don’t really miss trees til they’re not around a bunch)…but – there ain’t no ocean walking distance away…

That Lowe piece sounds like the positives aspects of Mike Miller in a nutshell. “Mike Miller: He doesn’t dabble in bizarre schemes.”

The first time I had heard of the “I.E.” was when I was in college in Fullerton. My neighbor was from there and he was incredulous that I was unfamiliar with it.

howdy domiknick…honestly, despite the lack of vegetation, smoggy air, millions and millions of other human beings in close proximity – the so cal area ain’t to bad a place to be stuck in 🙂

san bernardino is – well, san bernardino…riverside is growing like crazy, and heck, all the little freeway towns along the 60, 91, 15, 215, 10 and 210 are getting bigger all the time…man, we got a lot of freeways/interstates out here…lots of vehicles, lots and lots of vehicles moving around…

i’ll never forget coming out of LAX one night at around 11pm or so – i literally got stuck in traffic continuously from LA all the way to the 15…no accidents, construction or anything…it was crazy…

Howdy geo. Oh yes, my wife is from Long Beach so I’m familiar. San Diego traffic is getting worse but I don’t think we’ll ever catch up to LA traffic, which is obviously a good thing.

I would love to experience living in Monterey, even if just temporarily. We got married at a private ceremony in Big Sur this summer (we called it our “fancy elopement”) so needless to say we love that part of California.

We honeymooned in Big Sur, that’s my favorite place in the world. I would love to retire in the Monterey Bay area and be close to Big Sur.

I’m bookmarking this thread. What other basketball thread can discuss food so intelligently and thorough?

@232 sir, that’s just blasphemy! You want instant-coffee level bagels? Lemme holla at you about this chain called Winchell’s here in LA. I crave a toasted onion bagel (and that’s an onion bagel, NOT A FUCKING EVERYTHING BAGEL YOU GOTTA BUY BECAUSE SPOTS DON’T CARRY ONION BAGELS!) and cream cheese – in HS, I used to frequent a spot around Chambers St on my way to Stuyvesant some mornings. I miss that quality of bagel – people out here just don’t know.

We honeymooned in Trinidad, CA in Humboldt County. This year we went back again. This year our very private AirBNB had an outdoor hot tub and sauna on an 80′ bluff overlooking a private beach on the ocean with about 40 sea lions sunbathing on a distant rock. A perfect place to do psilocybin and exorcise my demons.

It ain’t a vacation unless you can be naked for a consecutive 24 hours, IMHO.

And re: short order cook, I’m not saying that complicated recipes are better. They often aren’t (I made a braised shortrib from All About Roasting by Molly Something or Other and it was 5x as complicated for a disappointing end product). Some things are just scientifically better, like marinading your short-ribs or brining your turkey or fried chicken. Or long-fermenting your pizza dough. A little investment for a lot of payoff.