[CBS Sports] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 22:48:00 GMT
2024 NBA Draft winners and losers: Bronny James lands with Lakers; Knicks continue good work in second round
[New York Post] – Fri, 28 Jun 2024 03:51:39 GMT
Knicks take Tyler Kolek after trading up in second round of 2024 NBA Draft
[New York Post] – Fri, 28 Jun 2024 02:59:23 GMT
- Knicks take Kevin McCullar Jr. with their final pick in 2024 NBA Draft
- 2024 NBA Draft updates: Every pick and reported trade
- NBA Draft 2024 live updates: Bronny James selected by Lakers, LeBron James’ current team – The Athletic
- Why is 2024 NBA Draft two nights? New format, schedule, dates for change Adam Silver calls ‘no-brainer’
- Kevin McCullar selected in the second round of the 2024 NBA Draft
[sny.tv] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 16:33:54 GMT
3 centers for Knicks to consider if they move on from Isaiah Hartenstein or Mitchell Robinson
[New York Post] – Fri, 28 Jun 2024 01:38:00 GMT
Knicks 2024 NBA Draft grades: New York comes up short, swings big on trade
[Arizona Sports] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 21:22:00 GMT
Suns draft Phoenix product Oso Ighodaro after trade with Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 16:47:43 GMT
- BREAKING: OKC Thunder Reportedly Trade 5 Draft-Picks To New York Knicks
- Report: Warriors trade No. 52 pick to Thunder for Lindy Waters III
- Oklahoma City Thunder select Dillon Jones in 2024 NBA Draft Deseret News
- Round 1, No. 26: Oklahoma City Thunder draft Dillion Jones
- Knicks Rumors: NY Acquires 6 2nd-Round NBA Draft Picks in Wizards, Thunder Trades
[The New York Times] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 15:34:40 GMT
Knicks’ greatest obstacle right now is not another NBA team but a spreadsheet
[New York Post] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 22:16:00 GMT
Knicks trade second-round pick Melvin Ajinca to Mavericks in 2024 NBA Draft swap
[Posting and Toasting] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 22:46:16 GMT
- The Knicks chose Ariel Hukporti with the 58th pick
- New York Knicks Close Draft With Ariel Hukporti
- NBA Draft, pick 58: Next Star Ariel Hukporti
- Knicks Close Draft With Ariel Hukporti
- Ariel Hukporti: 2024 Draft Prospect
[NBA.com] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 15:01:37 GMT
- Knicks make Draft-day deals with Wizards, Thunder
- Who is Zaccharie Risacher, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2024 NBA Draft?
- Wizards GM discusses addition of Kyshawn George in draft day trade
- 2024 NBA Draft: Knicks Acquire Six Second Round Picks
- Knicks trade 38th overall pick in 2024 NBA Draft to Oklahoma City Thunder
[USA TODAY] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 13:03:51 GMT
- Knicks see window to play for NBA title and take a swing. Risk is worth it.
- Knicks have big decisions to make with NBA Draft, free agency set to tip off
- Knicks Offseason Details
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[New York Post] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 17:30:00 GMT
Jay Wright not interested in coaching Knicks or anyone else
[New York Daily News] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 20:48:22 GMT
Knicks’ Jalen Brunson resumes shooting after hand surgery
[New York Post] – Fri, 28 Jun 2024 03:14:00 GMT
Jay Wright says ex-Villanova stars have ‘opportunity of lifetime’ to win title with Knicks
[Sports Illustrated] – Thu, 27 Jun 2024 14:50:04 GMT
Jalen Brunson Offers Advice For Future Knicks
267 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.06.28)”
https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/movin-and-shakin
Macri has a pretty good breakdown of the Hartenstein situation, and our options if he leaves for a team that can pay him more. The pertinent parts:
* He thinks that the FO is basically waiting to see if iHart is willing to take their offer before they attempt to amend the Bridges trade to avoid being hard-capped at the first apron. If he wants to stay, we’ll make that happen — because it’s impossible to sign him if we’re hard-capped that way — but if he doesn’t, the cost of avoiding the hard cap probably isn’t worth the benefits we might get.
* If iHart leaves, and even if we sign all four draft picks to fill out the bottom end of the roster, we’re still likely to be limited to the taxpayer exemption to find a backup to Mitch. (He doesn’t think it’s worth trying to include Mitch in an expanded version of the trade, because we couldn’t get a replacement as valuable to us as the healthy Mitch.) So he would guess Andre Drummond, Goga, or someone in that price range.
I listened this morning to yesterday’s Lowe Post episode with Zach and Jonathan Givony, which opened with a lot of talk about the Bridges deal. Zach acknowledged the down-the-road risk for the Knicks, but said it was very different from the Suns’ deal for Durant in a couple of crucial ways:
1. We’re in the East, where there’s simply an easier chance each year of making it into, and then past, the conference finals.
2. We didn’t have to gut our roster to make this happen. Even though we may have an issue at center, as discussed in my previous comment, this team is deep as hell. Hart, DDV, and Deuce were all going iron man at different points in this year’s playoffs, and now all three are set to come off the bench. In the miracle scenario where iHart comes back, we have an incredible top 9. We can sign some ring-chasing vets for the minimum, but we won’t have to rely on them to the extent that Phoenix has.
Unsaid by Zach, but related: Phoenix gave up a ton of picks and Mikal Bridges, whereas all we gave up was Bogey, a useful player, but one who was much further down our pecking order than even Cam Johnson was in Phoenix.
For those confused by yesterday, Macri points out:
in the span of less than 24 hours, they acquired 51, traded away 51, re-acquired 51, and then traded away 51 once more.
Last one before I get back to work: as someone who watches no college or international ball and only knows what the Wassermans and Vecenie’s of the world have to say about prospects, I really like our draft. In Dadiet, we got a high-upside lottery ticket that a lot of international scouts like. In Kolek, we got a plug-and-play dude who I can see Thibs trusting in the event of a backcourt injury. McCullar has injury concerns, plus the matter of his shot, but sounds like he could be Josh Hart 2.0, which wouldn’t be a terrible thing to have on a team where he could be mentored by the 1.0. And while I don’t expect Ariel Hukport to play a second of meaningful time with the big club this year (assuming they don’t just stash him overseas), he seems a very Thibs-y kind of center, and maybe an upgrade over Sims?
A very, very good week for our FO.
Trying to figure out a good sacrifice to the right petty god to swing the Hartenstein thing our way. Abstinence? Morning scones?
Ariel Hukport sounds like an Eastern European transportation hub.
Probably shouldn’t be having morning scones in the first place.
Nice one, d-mar.
I’ve been considering Pac-Daddy as the nickname for our first pick.
Bit of a mouthful, but it has a good old-school, throw-back rap flavor…
The Filipowski stuff is amazing. Sad too.
Probably shouldn’t be having morning scones in the first place.
Holy shit! Why?
I have yet to read anything indicating we received anything other than “cash considerations” for all the times we traded out.
It cost us three future 2nds to get Kolek at 34.
Then we traded out of 38, 40, & 51 (twice, apparently) to get 56 & 58… and nothing?
Did we really trade 4 2nd round picks for 2 worse 2nd round picks?
From a basketball standpoint probably yes (we get some future second rounders somewhere, I don’t remember in which trade), Dolan on the other hand made 1.5 millions (500 K from OKC, 1 M from Phoenix).
P.S And we get the rights of 36 years-old Petteri Kopenen from Dallas…
“Probably shouldn’t be having morning scones in the first place.
Holy shit! Why?”
So as to not be obese, which is unhealthy and generally a Very Bad Idea…….especially since you used the plural form of “scone.” One scone in the morning is bad enough, especially if one has them more days than not (as you insinuated regarding having to “sacrifice” having them). Multiple scones? And then on multiple mornings? Very, very, very bad idea.
https://www.nba.com/knicks/news/new-york-knicks-announce-second-round-draft-day-transactions
Errata corrige: Dolan’s million is from Dallas.
I like it, as well, but I would have liked it much more if Collier had been taken ahead of us.
I love Kolek and have been hyping him here for months, but punting on the Collier pick could be Jalen Johnson 2.0, albeit with far less consequence.
I will not purport to know anything about the French kid. I am negative on French prospects overall. But don’t we have the guy who drafted Gobert on our staff? I find that encouraging.
Thanks for the link, Max.
So we did, in fact, trade 38 straight up for 40.
For 40, we got 56 & an undisclosed future 2nd.
For 51, we got 58 and the rights of 36 years-old Petteri Kopenen.
This is incredible. PTSD makes me very skeptical it’s really true.
Have you seen Filipowski’s girlfriend? When I was in my early 20s, I would have been happy to have been groomed by her, as well.
(When did “being groomed” even become a phrase?)
While the draft results are not what I wanted to see, I can’t say that I don’t like the results. I see the vision, and I’m with it. This draft is the reason we paid Sims and Deuce. We can stash Dadiet so he can polish up his game and save us some money this year. We can also afford to move Deuce and Sims for picks, and sign someone like Lowry to help Kolek get acclimated. Hukporti is your Sims replacement, but I don’t know what we do with McCullar. Even if he was 100% healthy, his only role would be to grow in Westchester because of the wing depth. But even he’s a good player when healthy. At one point, he was predicted to go in the late 1st. If Dadiet fills out and becomes a swing forward at 6’8″, this draft looks even better for us. I think the FO have maneuvered very well to get us to this point. Not perfect, but definitely we’ll above average. All the moves they made this week culminates to a A grade for this offseason so far and gives the draft a B-plus at minimum for me.
So..who wants Sims and Deuce? Brooklyn has Simmons and Schröder so we shouldn’t have to send Deuce there. But I don’t think they have serviceable depth behind Claxton, so maybe we can send Sims there as part of the Bridges trade and then send Deuce somewhere else for a late 1st. Or hell…substitute Deuce for one of the 1sts we sent out in the Bridges trade. But that’s for Aller and crew to figure out because this new CBA is a headache lol. Nevertheless, I like where we are post draft. I’d like a bigger option behind Randle, but we’re more than ok with what we have- especially if Hartenstein returns
I appreciate you looking out for me, Doogie! Can I still have morning scones if I jog three miles a day, lift four days a week, do yoga two to three times a week and don’t drink a lick of alcohol and stick to a pretty rigid intermittent fast of 16 on 8 off. I also get a cold plunge sub 50 once a week. But maybe just maybe I’ll forgo obesity for Hartenstein.
“Are you guys kidding me. We have the second best odds to win a chip.
This is incredible. PTSD makes me very skeptical it’s really true.”
Are you sure that you don’t mean second-best odds in the Eastern Conference? I keep hearing third-best odds, behind the Celtics and the Nuggets.
Of course, if you do all of that, you’d be able to afford it!
Clearly you don’t have a full-time job. 🙂
I was at a wedding with a bunch of gleeful Bostonians over the weekend and I can’t tell you how much fun it was to dismiss their title.
If you meet a Celtics fan this summer, this is exactly what you say: “You don’t think that one actually counts, do you?”
“You guys beat Miami without Butler, Cleveland without Mitchell, and Indiana without Halliburton. Then you got Luka on one leg in the final.”
“Tatum’s a bum.”
The trick is to say with such conviction, as if you know the whole world is on your side. If done successfully, you will make them feel like they’re just discovering for the first time that everyone outside Boston dismissed the title as a fluke.
Finish it off by extending your hand with a cordial introduction like I did: “by the way, my name’s Eli, nice to meet you.”
Job? Are you trying to get biblical with me?
I guess I groomed Lady Raven, based on our seven-year age difference.
For some inexplicable reason her family puts up with me, however.
iHart’s wife is five years older than he is. Let’s make that an issue, too. Maybe his worth will plummet around the league…
5/175 for Quickley. Is OG overpaid, really?
BREAKING NEWS (sort of)
IQ is signing a 5 years, 175 M deal to stay in Toronto.
P.S. Marechal beat me to it 😁
Jalen Johnson is a promising young player who has been in the NBA for 3 years and hasn’t had a good season yet
I have never been happier about a non-Knicks contract than I am about IQ getting a BAG. Well deserved, and I won’t bet against him being worth every penny 🫡
It’s really, really not worth it to get worked up about these very minor 2nd round transactions that are suboptimal from an asset management standpoint. Literally every team does them for reasons that aren’t entirely clear to those of us not behind the scenes, but my guess is there’s some amount of owner pressure to recoup some money as long as you think, e.g., whoever you want at 38 will be there at 40. It is what it is. Not worth discussing at all, really.
My big board speaks for itself regarding my feelings about Collier. Best value pick of the draft, IMO.
Thing is, contending teams really do sometimes have to deviate from a pure “BPA at their peak” approach for understandable reasons. Collier 1) probably won’t be good in the NBA for a few years and 2) has no path to more than 12 or so minutes per game on the Knicks as long as Jalen Brunson can walk.
Of course you can always argue you take the BPA every time and figure it out later. The flaw with that argument is you simply won’t get a good return on a potential future trade if your drafted BPA has no chance whatsoever to prove he’s actually good.
All that said, I don’t think I would’ve been able to pass on Collier’s upside on the Knicks. I probably would’ve taken him over Dadiet. They may well regret passing on him. There’s also a strong chance them drafting him would’ve resulted in him being unceremoniously traded for 2 seconds before his walk year.
Barnes + Quickley + RJ for $100m in 2025-2026 is a lot.
It would be incredible to get Lowry on the vet minimum but it seems like Philadelphia’s going to have a lot of money to spend.
Lol
“I guess I groomed Lady Raven, based on our seven-year age difference.”
I’m seven years older than my girlfriend, too. I don’t think it counts as grooming unless one of the parties is underage. Which, by the way, I don’t think Filipowski was…….but the timeline is unclear, and I could be wrong about that. If she was 23 and he was 17 when they met, that would be an issue in terms of the legal implications. But again, after seeing her, I wouldn’t be able to blame him. And if he’s not complaining and she’s not complaining, then it’s really none of our business, anyway.
Damn I don’t know but Quickley definitely is. Nice one, Leon.
I am more curious than worked up.
We missed out on a guy we really liked by one pick (the guy the Pacers took at 50). I was hoping we got something for it.
Seems like we were just doing random favors for other teams. But when we wanted Kolek Portland held us up for 3 picks.
Donte might have the best non-rookie contract in the league at this point.
His career high BPM was 1.2 and most of that was defense. His epm was -.5, darko -.1, what am I missing?
Well, *that* was out of context! I know that you were posting about Jalen Johnson, but a fuller, more meaningful quote/re-cap of what was being responded to would have gone a long way there. 🙂
Blood is thicker than pussy, Doogie.
He’s going to regret cutting his family out of his life, yet they’ll still be there to support him when his going through a nasty divorce 6 years from now.
I know this will not matter to people who believe in the CAA-generates-fake-interest-in-OG-and-none-of-their-other-clients-because-reasons theory but Windhorst said on his pod today that he definitely had max offers on the table, and maybe multiple.
Makes sense, Philly is at risk of losing the musical chairs game for one, and Detroit would have nothing to lose.
Sheesh, I guess Toronto is all-in on Quickley, huh?
Oh damn, Grimes is going to Dallas.
The IQ contract is yet another evidence that Toronto was committed to him and would never trade OG for a package that didn’t include him.
Man, the shine has really come off Quentin Grimes huh…
Happy for IQ. He deserves it. I think he will live up to that contract.
I think we did ok in the draft. Was it just me or did splitting it up into 2 days cause there to be more wheeling and dealing or maybe that’s a byproduct of the new CBA stuff. I was annoyed by it after the first round ended but I think it ended up being kind of fun to have round 2 on a second day.
Just so curious to see how this iHart situation plays out. I would HATE to lose Deuce but from what everyone here is saying we kind of have to if we want to keep iHart, who is definitely the bigger priority.
But even if we keep iHart and Mitch, I think we would be wise to pick up on more veteran big (even if we keep Sims but especially if we lose him). We need a third string big who is more reliable than Sims. Maybe that’s precious? Been no talk about him these last few days.
From what I have read we’re tied with the second best odds to win the title after OKC. The issue for us is the team we would have to beat to get to the finals has the best odds. But the flip side is the East outside of Boston is a little easier overall.
Also, the off season JUST started. This is going to be a painfully long off season lol. I’m jonesing to see this team!!!!
Dallas traded Timmy and 3 2nds for Grimes, they love their Knicks
do I have to call myself Eli?
Second round was fun. No complaints, would do again.
Blood is thicker than pussy, Doogie.!!!!
True? Not an expert but this don’t sound like a call me by your name coming of age. It’s fucking cult abduction by a cult that thinks black people are descended from demons who decided not to fight in the holy wars.
Children should be protected even if they’re pubescent boys.
I forgot they are paying Poetl 20m/year. So Barnes + IQ + RJ + Poetl for 120m, or almost 80% of the cap.
I can believe Philly indicated they would max him if they missed out on their top 2 targets (Butler and George). But that carried a lot of risk for OG.
As for Detroit, no way.
“And maybe multiple,” is a full blown admission that he is speculating.
I think every agent in every sport bluffs for every one of his clients. I’m genuinely shocked anyone would take the other side of that.
Your position is “we should take his agent’s word at face value bc agents are honest and forthright”, and you’re mocking us? Come on.
This is hilarious, from the Spurs coach whose old draft rights we acquired in one of yesterday’s deals:
“I’m honored @nyknicks, but I’m still going to honor my commitment with @spurs. Of course, a financially ridiculous offer could change things. + I got the new hip! I’m ready!”
So now we have a pretty good idea of what the roster will look like.
We have the top 8: Brunson, Bridges, Anunoby, Randle, Robinson, McBride, DDV, Hart.
Then there will be another C, best case scenario Hartenstein but possibly a fallback option like Goga or Drummond.
Kolek is the #10 guy and should get some playing time. You probably add a ring chaser or two, ideally Kyle Lowry. McCullar will probably do some time in Westchester with Dadiet likely getting stashed. Then you get to the 13-15 slots which probably aren’t going to be anything special.
Deep and versatile roster, especially if the iHart miracle happens.
Benji Ritholtz:
“It’s a bit reductive, but thinking about OG at $42M/year vs IQ+RJ at $62/year.
“I’d add that for the next 2 years, the Knicks will be paying OG/Bridges approximately what the Raptors are paying IQ/RJ.
(Of course that ignores the pick cost).”
Agents themselves of course have every reason to posture about their clients. What I am not aware of is a case of an agency successfully convincing all of the most credible reporters that a given player had offers he did not have, nor do I understand why said agency would only do this for one player provided they had the power to do it in general.
If CAA has this power, they’re violating their fiduciary duty by not getting Brian Windhorst to say that D’Angelo Russell and Jacob Toppin are choosing between max offers too.
IQ’s contract starts at 21% of the cap and declines to 19% assuming max raises and cap projections. This a bit more than I thought he would get (but I suspect he’ll earn it). But the right comparison from our perspective is probably the 5/125 extension he reportedly asked us for according to a couple of the beat reporters. That would have started at $21 million, about 15.3% of the cap declining to 13.8%.
I like what Dallas did.
They added a 3&D role player, which is exactly what they need, got rid of Timmy, which they’ve been trying to do for 2 years, and opened up space to keep Derick Jones or make another move.
Why Detroit would make that move I don’t know. Timmy is useless to their rebuild. Maybe they can use his expiring contract in a trade next year. Grimes is a good young piece. I don’t know their team well enough, but maybe they felt like they have some duplication and would rather have the 3 second round picks and Timmy’s contract for next year.
Either way, I like what Dallas is did.
The Knicks had IQ coming off the bench. The market probably viewed him as more of a 6th man. Toronto gave him the starting job and he was good, but that’s a lot of money.
Of course you’re not. No agent is ever going to admit they were bluffing after they win!
CAA is fucking good, and they did outstanding work with OG. That shouldn’t be hard to believe.
Even the most credible reporters often repeat whatever the agent/PR team tells them. If Windhorst had said “two GMs told me on the record that they made max offers to OG,” that would be one thing. Instead, he said “I have heard he had a max offer, maybe multiple”. Yeah, I’ve heard that, too. From CAA!
I quite like what we did at the draft. We diversified the picks a little bit, went with a win-now plug-and-play guy in Kolek and rolled the dice on an upside play in Dadiet, while also taking a flyer McCullar, who seems like a good fit for our style and culture.
Who knows if any of these guys pan out but this was a very solid, competent draft day.
As a once and future agent, I can say that you are completely wrong. The assumption is that everything will eventually become known – if not widely, then certainly within the industry. So lying is rare, because once you lose credibility, it’s tough to continue making deals and getting good clients. ( Not impossible, though) Hyping, suggesting, omitting certain information, yes, all the time. But you can’t say “he had other max offers” without there being other max offers.
Edit: never worked for CAA, but have done lots of work with CAA.
I don’t either, and I’m not sure why you keep bringing this up. I’m sure they do it for all their clients whenever it’s advantageous.
He seems like a better ‘if the shot gets a bit better’ sort of prospect than you can usually get that late in the draft
IMO, we need I-Hart back or someone that can add as much value as he does or we may not be as good as everyone thinks. I like Mitch, but even if he’s starting and healthy, imo he doesn’t add as much value as I-Hart. We will take a step up going from DDV to Bridges and moving DDV to the bench as 6th man, but we are going to lose some spacing and playmaking at C that really helped us last year if I-Hart is gone. I think the potential loss of I-Hart is being underrated (if it happens). There better be a good plan “B”. I’m still not totally counting out a trade that brings back someone we haven’t discussed yet where Mitch and maybe Deuce go out. I don’t expect Randle to get traded at this point (maybe at the deadline), but if weakness as C is a problem, Randle could be traded at the deadline for a C.
“Dallas traded Timmy and 3 2nds for Grimes, they love their Knicks”
This doesn’t make sense. If they truly did love their Knicks, they wouldn’t have traded one former Knick for another one. They would have traded for one without giving up the other to get him.
Agree, with the caveat that it was draft days, plural, which had the effect of me being very underwhelmed after day 1 and very happy after day 2. I like the new format!
I keep bringing it up because if CAA has the power to flood the zone with wildly false information that inflates OG Anunoby’s value, it makes no sense to me that they would not do this for all of their clients.
To put a finer point on it, I don’t think they’re doing this with OG Anunoby. I think a lot of NBA teams want to employ a 26 year-old big wing who is a perennial DPOY candidate and doesn’t take anything off the table offensively, and are willing to pay a lot of money to do so. I don’t think I’ve been had.
If they said there were other offers for OG but there weren’t and they were lying, wouldn’t we be hearing other teams/GM’s right now saying “we didn’t make an offer to OG”? Wouldn’t we get called out on that pretty quickly?
The long term blowback of an agency outright lying about a client getting other offers in order to drive up the price would be huge. And, end of the day, it didn’t drive up the offer THAT much. What he got was on the high end of what most people thought he would get.
I hope PG resigns with the Clippers or ends up in Golden State. It will be funny to see Morey trying to use that cap space when the best option is…trading for Ingram? Signing KCP?
If someone drives up the price of something by lying and you fall for it, isn’t that kind of on you (assuming that the lying is unregulated, and is therefore legal)?
Who is this poster using caps and intelligible language and what have you done with ptmilo?
If IQ is worth that money, then OG is a bargain at anything below $50M AAV.
This is the best time to be a Knicks fan in a long, long time.
Anybody know why Kolek fell out of the first round? (Sorry, I don’t really follow college bb any more). Seems like his numbers, leadership, and intangibles would make him worthy of at least a late first. I’m reading some say he’s one of the steals of the draft as a 2nd rounder.
I’m guessing he doesn’t have “elite athleticism” and such?
Isn’t the whole logic Behind drafting Dadiet that he can be stashed without any salary cap hit for this year? We couldn’t have done that with any non-foreign player, correct?
I don’t have strong convictions between Collier and Shead, but at this point in time, I think Shead is going to wind up being the better pro. Not a hill I would die on, just a gut feeling based on watching their film.
It’s not like OG is the only athlete that has a deal way above his statistical output.
Me, too.
I just don’t think anyone wanted to max him for four years except maybe Philadelphia, where I believe he was a clear 3rd choice.
It’s very easy for an agent to spin genuine interest into make-believe max offers.
But again, I didn’t come here trying to sell this today. You’re taking unprovoked pot shots at me and others who believe it.
Kolek fell further than he should have. So did Filipowski. I wouldn’t be shocked if they turned out to be more good players in the 31 to 50 range then there are in the 20 to 30 range.
Any word on UDFA candidates yet?
Who is this poster using caps and intelligible language and what have you done with ptmilo?
should probably get a covid test
It wouldn’t just be CAA fucking the Knicks over, it would be Leon‘s son fucking Leon over.
Clash Fan, I think it’s probably because he’s 23 years old and that tends to drop guys down in the draft order
I didn’t realize that Grimes was born in Houston. He’ll be closer to home. He must be happy about this trade. He’s going to a contender near home. How many minutes he gets is another issue.
Ah, d-mar, thanks. For some reason, I didn’t notice his age!
Still, the guy seems like an almost sure-fire plug and play backup point guard. Maybe his D is not so good, either. I didn’t read much of anything about that.
There is a difference btwn pumping up a client by saying there is interest from other teams and saying he had multiple offers (which came out AFTER we gave him the contract).
Huge difference. One is pumping up the client, playing poker, the other is lying. I’m not saying agents wouldn’t ever lie. I’m sure some do. But Leon’s son would lie to his dad to get OG a better contract when he was already going to get a a REALLY FUCKING GOOD CONTRACT? Seems dubious at best and was originally floated by the biggest wet blanket hater on thibs blog moments after it was announced we resigned OG because his doomsday narrative that we would lose him did not come to fruition.
Same guy who spent all of last season going off about how the Knicks “lost to a lower seed” in the 2023 playoffs and then turned around yesterday and said that RJ Barrett was key to the Knicks beating a higher seed and losing to the eventual ECF champs.
Kolek is old, fairly small and not a great athlete (he had zero dunks last year, for example)
The Warriors telling the media that they’re not desperately trying to unload Wiggins is pretty funny. What a strange career that guy has had.
“Seems dubious at best and was originally floated by the biggest wet blanket hater on thibs blog moments after it was announced we resigned OG because his doomsday narrative that we would lose him did not come to fruition.”
Can you provide the link to Thibs’ blog?!?
Offers can’t be made to other teams’ players until July 1st. The lairs are in the media, not in the agency. For as confusing and hard to follow as the CBA is, the tampering clause is pretty straightforward.
I won’t be mad at IHart, if he gets an offer for $20mm plus and decides to take it, but man if we retain him, I think we can compete with anybody and would probably flirt with 60 wins. If he walks, I would really like to see us use some small ball lineups with OG and Randle to close games.
“he lairs are in the media, not in the agency.”
The lairs are actually everywhere! Everywhere, I tell you!!!
I’m currently with the pundits on iHart returning. IQ’s, OG’s contracts pegged on cap% is exhibit A if I were his agent shopping an in demand skill set for a young player who is constantly improving.
And good for him (iHart, not the agent).
Without knowing Grimes or any his OPI, I feel like there is a logical fallacy to this line of thinking.
The beauty of this draft is that we do not have to stress about the ups and downs of our picks. For the first time in 30 years, we are not banking the franchise’s future on some draftees. They are complementary pieces for now and their development is tied to absorbing the elements of a winning culture.
As for morning scones, eat the fuck out of them if you like them, don’t listen to Doogie and his fat-shaming lairing. (But, fyi, a common symptom of a gluten allergy is excess flatulence, so maybe get yourself checked for that and then double-down next time you’re flying into the DFW!)
“As for morning scones, eat the fuck out of them if you like them, don’t listen to Doogie and his fat-shaming lairing. (But, fyi, a common symptom of a gluten allergy is excess flatulence, so maybe get yourself checked for that and then double-down next time you’re flying into the DFW!)”
Not fat shaming at all. In fact, I’m doing my best not to get there myself. Have gone down from 165 to 151 (aiming for 145) this calendar year just by doing something as simple as…….well, eating less. Sometimes the simplest methods work just fine.
“Without knowing Grimes or any his OPI, I feel like there is a logical fallacy to this line of thinking.”
I might write this a little bit more clearly, but on its merits I totally agree with this.
“The beauty of this draft is that we do not have to stress about the ups and downs of our picks”
“Not fat shaming at all”
Converging the last few comments… I give you Michael Sweetney.
I refuse to take Michael Sweetney.
Although I just saw a video of him basically saying how much he valued the Jewish culture/community (actually *all* cultures/communities), as that is how his Dad raised him
Maybe I’ll take him, after all.
Doogie must have a type, because Filipowski’s groomer gf has the eyes of a fanatic — the penetrating, unyielding gaze of an empty vessel for the Lord.
There’s a photo circulating on twitter and tiktok of them together with his cousins when he was 13. It’s rumored she used to babysit him.
The claim is not: “no team wanted OG Anunoby.”
The idea is that plenty of teams wanted OG and CAA successfully stoked concern that one of them was willing to offer a max before one of them actually made it.
I 100% believe Philadelphia would have offered OG the max if they get rebuffed by Butler and George, and that’s enough to force Leon to pay up, so whatever.
But there’s no way in hell Morey would fuck over CAA and tell the world he wasn’t interested. The truth does not always come out because there’s valuable relationships at stake.
“Doogie must have a type, because Filipowski’s groomer gf has the eyes of a fanatic — the penetrating, unyielding gaze of an empty vessel for the Lord.”
Quite honestly, I didn’t notice her eyes. The rest of her was my type, however. I mean, she’s simply an objectively attractive woman.
“There’s a photo circulating on twitter and tiktok of them together with his cousins when he was 13. It’s rumored she used to babysit him.”
If true, that is indeed super-creepy.
In my early touring years as a young person I was single and always looking to meet some nice ladies. It’s a pretty good arrangement being in a touring band with an artist who is a heartthrob type sensitive singer/songwriter guy. Target rich environment. Astonishingly beautiful women everywhere. Those were some good years.
The city I would always look most forward to visiting in this regard was Salt Lake City. I was often able to punch WAY above my weight in that town. Whatever form of sexual repression that goes on there definitely works in your favor when you’re the guitar player in the touring band that’s playing Saturday night at the Soiled Dove. Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Edit: Hmm, now that I think about it maybe the Soiled Dove was in Denver. The brain cells containing those memories aren’t in showroom condition anymore
Being a lily-white, clean-cut dude with IRL charm, I have never felt more like a piece of meat than I have in Utah. The former Lady Jowles, herself a native Utahn, essentially told me that if I felt thirsty eyes on me, I was right.
Can you provide more detail, please? How can my sentence be improved, were there any particular words or phrases that you didn’t understand? Feel free to re-write it and repost it if you’d like, I don’t mind at all.
It didn’t really occur to me at first because I was running around Brooklyn Housing Court, but that THJ/Grimes deal seems god awful for Detroit. They couldn’t get a first for taking on THJ’s $16M and they had to give up Grimes?
If I were Pistons fan I’d be despondent. Not necessarily because of this deal specifically, even though it sucks, but because it looks like the new guys are the same as the old.
I imagine it’s on some level Trajan Langdon just wanting to clean house as much as possible. Grimes is a solid enough player, but he’s going to cost real money after next year and the Pistons shouldn’t want to be paying good money for average players at this stage of the game.
Tommydee had a nice recap:
The Knicks entered the 2024 draft with the #24, #25 and #38 overall picks
The Knicks exit the 2024 draft with:
* Pacome Dadiet
* Tyler Kolek
* Kevin McCullar Jr.
* Ariel Hukporti
* net three additional future second-round picks
In sum, NY adds:
* enticing, athletic draft-and-stash 18-year-old
* proven, productive, plug-and-play backup PG
* an NBA-ready 6’7 wing who averaged 18.6 points, 6.0 rebounds and 4.2 assists last season and was also named to the Big 12 All-Defensive Team
* a physical 22-year-old rim-protecting center
* while also saving cap space and restocking their draft capital.
Three years from now, will what leon did in this draft matter or a complete non-event?
I mean winner does this sweet cream icing glazed currant scone that just parties with you when you drinking a hot cup of coffee and cream. Also their chocolate chip cookie. Fuck my face good.
I think I fart the regular amount. I just savor them more than the regular bloke.
reading up on mormonism this morning…interesting stuff…
Filipowski’s family has come out on social media saying the story is super creepy and much worse than people know about it, so I would hold my horses before making awful “I wish I was groomed by someone like that” comments.
There’s a very big difference between just being in a relationship between two adults who happen to be 7 years apart in age, and an adult woman getting into a relationship with a high school kid and effectively cutting him off from all contact with his family and bringing him into a religion.
Let’s please not minimize a situation where some heavy abuse could have happened, specially since we really don’t know all the details.
thank you for sharing clarence…how did your screening go?
“Without knowing Grimes or any his OPI, I feel like there is a logical fallacy to this line of thinking.”
First of all, you should spell out “OPI,” as it can represent a whole lot of different things. So you should be clearer about what you are saying instead of using an acronym that 1) not all readers will know and 2) has multiple meanings. Also, even taking the lack of specificity about “OPI” out of the equation, it seems to clearly require the word “of” between “any” and his” (i.e., “any of his OPI” instead of “any his OPI”).
“Filipowski’s family has come out on social media saying the story is super creepy and much worse than people know about it, so I would hold my horses before making awful “I wish I was groomed by someone like that” comments.”
I thought that was clearly a joke, albeit a somewhat inappropriate one perhaps. Sorry if I offended.
“There’s a very big difference between just being in a relationship between two adults who happen to be 7 years apart in age, and an adult woman getting into a relationship with a high school kid and effectively cutting him off from all contact with his family and bringing him into a religion.”
I posted much of the same earlier myself.
Congrats on the sex, JK and Jowles… I’m not sure I’d fare as well in SLC as an Asian guy.
Depends on how many of those women are into K-pop and/or anime. That seems to be my demographic in regards to interracial dating.
I mentioned in previous thread geo. It was great. Psyche in tact. Thanks for asking. More people are liking and “getting” it than not and that’s great. Our financier is gung ho on the next one 🙂
I think OG contract is completely fine.
25% of the salary cap is totally fine for him, and it will go down slightly as a percentage of the cap over the life of the contract.
Other guys who made between 32-40MM this past year:
CJ McCollum
Deandre Ayton
Desmond Bane
Jayson Tatum
Bam Adebayo
DeAaron Fox
Tyrese Halliburton
Lamelo Ball
Donovan Mitchell
Michael Porter Jr
Shai
Brandon Ingram
Jamal Murray
Zion
Garland
Morant
Ben Simmons
I think he fits pretty comfortably in the middle of that group in terms of contribution to winning, especially on this team.
Not every contract Leon signs guys to can be markedly below market like Deuce, DDV, Randle, Brunson, iHart 2 years ago. Sometimes you just need to pay market value when someone’s a free agent and you have no way to replace that player if he leaves.
And by the way – I do think Morey is going to be left without a “superstar” and that a max contract offer would have been coming for OG.
So 38 & 40 into:
* 2028 Boston top-45 protected
* 56
* 58
* $1.5M (sphere must be struggling)
* 36yo Spurs coach
Doesn’t seem like great value unless you were picking McCullar & Hukport anyway.
Worth noting that teams can sign 2nds for more than the zero year minimum. Getting 2 of the last 3 picks — who are probably happy to take the minimum — might’ve shaved some extra salary.
He reminds me of our starting PG. 😉
I would like this pick even if we didn’t need a backup PG. We’ll see if he can defend at the NBA level and how long it takes him to acclimate, but I like the pick. He fits a need, looks like a real PG, can shoot, hard worker type, and has sense of humor. He should fit the team culture.
Why this huge discussion on OG’s salary, CAA and media?
It’s a fair price.
“He fits a need, looks like a real PG, can shoot, hard worker type, and has sense of humor.”
Not trolling, but wondering sincerely how you know that he has a sense of humor. What has he said or done?
From what I understand Dadiet is not getting stashed
I have no idea what OPI means and still think the same thing.
IMO, a majority of players prefer playing on a contender like Dallas over an incompetent tanker like Detroit, prefer spending time in a city like Dallas over Detroit and would prefer being closer to friends and family. (not to mention his tweet that seemed to imply he’s happy to be going to Dallas)
I saw an exchange between him and reporter about “barbecue chicken” that I thought was pretty funny.
Reminds me of TJ McConnell, who compensates for it with motor and being a dawg. And TJ can’t shoot threes, either. (The Pacers actually keep him around 25 mpg because he can’t keep up the pace well beyond that — remember how we all scratched our heads during the playoffs why he was benched during certain stretches)
If Kolek can reach that same tier of dawg, he has a path to success. He might even have more margin for error as he can spread the floor.
You down with OPI?
On Katz’ pod with Vorkunov today, he presented frank’s idea of combining Jeffries’ salary with that of a signed 2RP making a hair more than the minimum to avoid the first apron hard cap.
Katz is a man of integrity who I assume organically thought of the same idea, but us Knickerbloggers are duty bound to remember where we heard it first.
I sincerely and humbly apologize for anyone I may have offended by posting unintentionally insensitive remarks about grooming. Although of course I know that grooming is a very unfortunate and growing concern in today’s society, I hadn’t taken the time to get information on this particular case in order to understand its severity prior to my posting. Lesson learned.
Many apologies,
Doogie
I am loving the discussion today. Especially the scones. I was already planning to have my weekend scone tomorrow. Chocolate chip, very good. I live in PA so we order them from NY at a place called The Hungry Gnome.
Also, liked the draft. I think our first rounder has some real talent, from what I read and watched.
Kolek is a pure PG with excellent court vision and pick and roll skills. Intangibles seem good as he was a team leader and has been very productive despite his lack of plus physicality. Not undersized for the position at 6’3” and has shooting/scoring chops to go along with the strong passing skills.
I’m very excited about him, and expect him to make an immediate impact. Depending on what happens with the center position, our top ten is stacked.
I figured that, as educated Knicks fans, you all would be familiar with Federalist #10, on which James Madison refers to controlling the effects of majority faction by providing all Americans with common opinions, passions, and interests.
That said, Dallas and Houston are further apart than New York and Boston; almost as far apart as LA and San Francisco; and Houstonians typically refer to Dallas as “Satan’s Cumstain”.
“He’s not the Messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!!!!”
As previously noted, there’s zero and I do mean zero doubt a bunch of those dudes read KB.
I have extensive experience with Houston, and some (but much less) experience with Dallas. I dislike both cities, but I dislike Dallas more.
Austin? Now we’re talking! What a music scene!
What team was gonna offer IQ a contract anywhere near what Toronto gave him? I know he was a restricted FA this summer but still.
Agent helps client through Windhorst/Shams/Woj by leaking “offers.” WSW repeats/reports, gets clicks. In exchange, agent gives WSW real news about things like trade discussions/actual signings. WSW repeats/reports real news, gets more clicks.
Rinse, repeat.
The basketball news ecosphere.
Sooooo I guess I gotta ask… how would a Black man fare in SLC? 🤔
(Not asking for a friend btw – I’m happily married).
I had a black friend I used to work with who went to Salt Lake City on a business trip. According to his own story, while he was there, everyone seemed to assume that he was a professional athlete of some sort without him even resembling any specific professional athlete.
Watching random clips of the Roomates Show interview with Mitch, and poor Mitch definitely thinks he’s getting traded.
Again, those who assert that agents are lying about offers have no fucking clue what they’re talking about. Good agents do not lie about money, period. Bad agents may, but they don’t last long enough to end up with good clients. Small business, everyone talks. It is clear that OG had at least one max and at least one other team that was saying they might. Second team maybe would never happen, but nonetheless it’s clear what his market was.
I’m married to a former mormon so I have a little experience with this topic. The mormons as a whole are not that provincial. They are not inexperienced with Black folk or Asian folk. Our cousin is black and mormon. They’re big business like all the other abrahamic cults. They love black folk, just look what they’ve don’e to Uganda. They’re super gay cuz they keep marrying the gays back into the fold (don’t ask don’t tell). If you haven’t read Educated by Westover it’s a great book and a window into one of the more weird instances of back woods Mormonism. Honey butter and toast.
It’s cool Doogie.
I have always frowned upon the traditional older man/younger woman version of grooming. Like, you not man (secure) enough to find a partner around your age and ethos, so you gotta grab a young girl who’s still learning to be an adult… pathetic.
It happened twice to my wife: her two kids’ fathers (I detest the phrase “baby daddy”) are at least 15 years older than her. The first tried the grooming thing on her when she was 19, and left her and my bonus daughter when my lady refused to be the first wife of his eventual polygamist sect (btw fast fwd to today where he’s facing child-trafficking charges for trying to arrange-marriage his under-age daughters).
The second dad is an alleged narcissist who never successfully held down a household or properly raised any of his kids, and is a perennial cheater. He got with her in her early twenties.
Thank you.
Some people here would try to teach a surgeon how to do a surgery.
It seemed to me that the Mormon ladies were just very excited to meet guys who were not Mormon.
The range of experiences people have had here
Mormon Ladies would be a good name for an album
There’s no harm or downside whatsoever to the “OG had multiple max offers” tale. No one’s chapped, everyone’s happy.
Now, if the agent had went in to negotiate with Leon and personally told Leon that OG had max offers and then Leon found out that wasn’t true, that would be a problem and might boomerang back.
But that’s not this fact pattern.
My only thought on the Filipowski situation is that his gf isn’t as pretty as Pacome Dadiet’s jumper
And this is some sort of problem?
The Mormons missionaries concentrated on proselytizing primarily in Scandinavia so you will find a plethora of Olsens, Svensons and Madsens there… a lot of beautiful women with blond hair and blue eyes, if you like that sort of thing 🙂
As to the Mormon religion being nuts…. as compared to what. The religion who claims to have a guy who could walk on water and fly in the sky after he died…. or maybe the one where another older guy waved a big stick and moved a few billion acre feet of water.
Wait a second – that was the thing Fred Katz tweeted about today about spending all the time on the math? I did the math for him yesterday!!! lol
If that is really what is happening – it makes sense then that we traded up for the guy we really wanted and then traded down multiple times to get McCullar and Hukporti. Maybe one or both those guys was never meant for our team anyway – gonna be a Net, and so we extracted as much future value out of our original picks as we could.
A lot of this.
I found 50 years ago they broke into two distinct camps: the one’s who were looking for a husband to have 8 kids with and follow the religion closely, and those who had enough of Mormonism and rebelled against it.
Chose from column “B”
It’s too bad we all can’t have our own little Leon Rose life-fixers.
Bullshit, Rama.
I’m not sitting here claiming an agent would completely manufacture something out of nothing. But if an agent has like 5 guys bidding, 100% he might bluff about what one of them is offering.
And there is a 0% chance those 5 teams are going to get together, suss it out afterwards, and report to the media that the agent is lying.
It is actually crystal clear that OG never received a max offer because it’s not July 1.
I believe Morey would have maxed him, and that’s probably what everyone is referring to. But there’s no way he was ready to offer it while Butler and George are both available.
My 17 year old daughter, who is black, is currently dating an Asian Mormon (of her own age). Lady Walsh thinks he might be a serial killer, but he plays a mean viola, so I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.
I would think if I signed a sub-max deal and then my agent announced that I had more than one max offer I would fire my agent.
And if I took my dad to the woodshed, I’d probably float the idea that there were multiple max offers to a couple gullible media personalities to make sure he didn’t look too bad.
https://x.com/ShooterMcGavin_/status/1806467337379279313
You’d be happy with the agent for helping enable the fiction that you picked the Knicks because you love them rather than because they paid you.
And obviously the Knicks are perfectly happy with the fiction.
Thus, the fiction is written.
(As far as we know the “max offers” thing could be a full-on Knicks production and they were the source.)
And obviously there’s no need to fire the agent for taking the lower offer, because there were in fact no max offers and he in fact did not take a lower offer.
@Pepper — “Make it rain!”
Viola aside, did he bring you tuna casserole yet?
Ya’ll catch the MIA clothing line that blocks 5g. I’m more the string of garlic necklace guy. Gay vampires are pretty hot tho!
Hubert, I am impressed but not surprised that you will stick to your guns despite someone who actually did the job for several decades telling you that’s not how it works. Kudos for ignoring facts over opinion. You, sir, are what makes the Internet great.
Before doogie jumps in
https://www.kxan.com/news/texas/is-it-yall-or-yall-where-does-the-apostrophe-go-in-texas-favorite-word/
Interesting fact about financial advisors: they all skim money from their clients’ accounts without telling them. The money is sitting right there – there are a dozen ways of slicing off pieces without the client knowing. You think they wouldn’t do it? Of course they would! Anyone who doesn’t agree is just being naive. Makes sense to me, anyway. I don’t have to have worked in that business or actually know anything about it to know I’m right.
Making it even more laughable is that he literally couldn’t have received a “max offer” because he wasn’t yet eligible to negotiate with other teams and other teams weren’t yet eligible to negotiate with him. So the agent (or the Knicks) is claiming that multiple teams tampered with him, or that the term “max offer” is flexible enough to encompass things that aren’t and couldn’t have actually been … you know … offers.
Let’s be a bit more street smart.
Let’s be a bit more street smart.
Proceed!
Good NBA today show today…perk is predicting klay to philly…forgot if it was windy or marks that said pg to warriors if they can get a Paul taker..mucho knicks love…
I’ve also taken the lower offer in several of my most successful deals. Happens all the time – with good agents. If things hadn’t worked out it might not have been good with the client, but each time it did, probably because the reasoning behind doing so was sound and held up.
STREET SMARTS!
Again, it is such an odd feeling to see all these NBA deals being made — in this case, Raptors just picked up Bruce Brown’s option for next season, with an eye on trading him — and having to resist the urge to wonder if the Knicks should get involved with that. Outside of the center position and bringing in ring-chasing vets on minimums, we appear to be done for the summer(*).
(*) Famous last words before Leon somehow trades Julius, Deuce, and Mitch for Nikola Jokic.
How did we get from agents misreprenting the market to “all financial ” advisors steal from their clients? I mean that is a blatantly false statement.
Playing the role of the virgin birth in this quite interesting and revolutionary new religious faith will be the “multiple max offers.” …..
Ah yes, NBA teams famously wait for free agency to begin to negotiate, and miraculously are able to announce deals 30 seconds after that.
We’re in the euphoria phase now, but that urge to wonder will eventually and inevitably morph into “wow, here’s another interesting player/deal the Knicks can’t get involved with because they’re above the second apron and already traded all their draft picks.”
Initial Vegas over/under on that … 1.5 years.
You only say that because you didn’t know the truth, like I do
If IQ got 5/175m, then in my book we can put to rest who took who to the proverbial woodshed over OG’s new deal.
I think folks get shocked at the gradual upscaling of what market value is for frontline (or aspiring-frontline) non-allstar starters, give-or-take team specific needs. We’re not used to ponying up like this when the team’s competitive situation actually warrants it.
In terms of that, let’s get someone smarter than me to give the board the rundown of how many of the 1s they still retained they’re Stepianed out from trading.
There’s no indication, really, that OG’s a better player or will be over the next five years, than IQ.
He might be, sure, but it’s not remotely a given.
I wanna get taken to the woodshed…
Stepiened. 🙂
IQ ’24, per 36:
21 points/4.7 rebounds/6 assists/577 TS on 23.8 USG/24 years old
OG ’24:
15.5 points/4.4 rebounds/2.3 assists/595 TS on 17.6 USG/27 years old.
Replace “IQ” and “OG” with “Player A” and “Player B” and if you walked around the bar or the room carrying on about how “Player B is clearly way better and would continue to be,” you’d get laughed out of said bar/room.
Rama you seem to be deliberately misreading me.
I am suggesting that when negotiating, an agent may say “It’s gonna take $40mm to get this done”, when in fact it could get done for $37mm.
And you’re sitting here telling me you personally know that has never happened in a contract negotiation bc you’re in the business. Balderdash.
Two 2nds for taking on THJ’s contract, and one 2nd for Grimes? I thought Grimes was worth a lot more than this.
Agents leak “offers” to the press all the time in every sport in an effort to generate interest in and better offers to their client.
Not even worth debating or re-litigating.
An agent to a jabronie or chucklehead wouldn’t say that because it wouldn’t pass the laugh test. Frankie N’s agent isn’t going to say Frankie N has max offers.
An agent to a guy who could say it and pass the laugh test would say it, and often does say it.
Does defense matter? Having a DPOY candidate is worth something or not? Is IQ a DPOY candidate? Can he defend several positions?
I’m old enough to remember when IQ’s defense was celebrated on KB.
But you don’t see differences between IQ’s defense and OG’s? Are they at the same level? OG being a DPOY candidate says nothing about IQ’s defense being also good, just not otherworldly good.
State your belief then, sir.
Is it your opinion that Philly made a hard offer to OG?
As in, if Phoenix called Philadelphia on the first day of free agency and said “Kevin Durant wants to play for you, give me three firsts and he’s yours,” Morey would have to decline because OG was his guy?
Because my position is Philly probably said “I’d offer a max, but we have options to explore first.” Which is not really an offer.
But your belief is on day 1, minute 1, Philly and at least one other team was going to blow off the entire player market to make the max offer to OG? That’s what you think was on the table?
I read that post as a clear parody of another poster’s opinion.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5585200/2024/06/28/nba-free-agency-best-available-centers-isaiah-hartenstein-nic-claxton/
iHart unsurprisingly tops Hollinger’s list of the best available FA centers. If he leaves, I think Macri might be right that Drummond is our best/most likely option, though Goga’s shot-blocking would fit also fit the Thibs mode. Anybody else see guys on here you’d want to try to get with either the taxpayer midlevel or as a lottery ticket on a minimum salary?
(FWIW, Tommy Beer seems intrigued by the idea of Jalen Smith.)
IQ’s current head coach basically called him out about needing to improve his defense specifically needing to get alot stronger. He mentioned it during a post-game press conference shortly after the trade.
OG Anunoby has received votes for DPOY once in his career, tying for 7th in the voting two years ago with 8 voting points out of a possible 495.
This x100. We eventually figured out that it makes more sense to use rTS or TS+ when discussing shooting efficiency because the league average has fluctuated significantly even within the same decade.
When will everyone figure out that raw dollar numbers on NBA contracts are meaningless, and only the percentage of the cap matters?
This is why it bugged me when everyone was skeptical that iHart would command more than 17m. 17m is peanuts in today’s cap!
On the other hand, if you said this in a place somewhat more sophisticated than a bar full of half-drunk yokels, you might rightfully get critiqued on your omission of highly material facts like:
Player A: -1.0 DEPM, 37th percentile
Player B: 3.1 DEPM, 99th percentile
Maybe you should stick to making these risible arguments in that bar setting, because you’re getting less credible than even me at my schtickiest.
There’s nothing “sophisticated” about these, Pags — and they aren’t “facts.” EPM is a modeled, subjective basketball metric filled with inferences, assumptions, and guesswork. It isn’t a “fact.” It isn’t close to a “fact.”
Isaiah Hartenstein was 2nd overall in DEPM last year and we all saw him get eaten alive by a hobbled Joel Embiid in the playoffs.
Tier 3C players who are unrestricted free agents will receive better contracts than Tier 4C players who are restricted free agents. Anyone with a modicum of basketball knowledge would understand that, and it’s ridiculous to think otherwise
“One is a starting PG” seems like a material fact, too, Pagliacci. They tend to have their own market rate, a bit like how mediocre QBs get paid more than great RBs.
I think the Raptors are being incredibly optimistic, but that is the going rate for a starting PG.
$40MM is not the going rate for 3-and-D wings. CAA set a new market high with that one.
Pointzz baby
Tim Duncan and Patrick Ewing never came very close to winning DPOY either. Guess they’re around Immanuel Quickley’s level on defense, then.
Explain the degree to which the players’ standing in this defensive metric last season closes the sizable offensive gap between the two players going forward, also taking into account their age. Show your work. Explain how your conclusion renders the statement to which it was addressed inaccurate.
Points, assists, rebounds, efficiency, ability to generate usage ….. Who cares about those things?
Stark truth is that it’s literally possible that OG isn’t going to be as good a player as either of the guys traded for him, much less both of them combined.(*)
Which isn’t to say OG isn’t a very nice player, but as with Hubert’s Zach LaVine at 26 example (**), it should be possible to hold both thoughts/possibilities simultaneously.
(*) Factorials: Toronto RJ did everything better than OG offensively, and rebounded better than OG. IQ did everything better than OG offensively and rebounded better than OG. Both are pre-prime, OG is not. That’s a massive headstart gap for OG’s defense to close. The assertion that it does needs convincing support for it to be taken seriously.
(**) Yes, Zach at 26 was a better basketball asset than OG is now.
It’s a pretty pathetic year for FA centers. If iHart leaves, it’s pretty much Goga, Smith, and Drummond for me.
Tillman might be interesting but is a very one-way defensive player.
Queta seems capable of doing things Thibs likes (and would make cyber happy).
Maybe Paul Reed gets cut by Philly for cap space.
Otherwise bring back Precious, who we probably need anyways unless Thibs learns to trust Hukporti before Mitch can get injured.
Nice conflation there, but I said nothing as to the sophistication of one statistical measure vs. another. I was talking about the distinction in levels of sophistication between this forum and your hypothetical bar/room full of people that would be swayed by your simplistic and fatuous use of cherry-picked stats that ignore OG’s primary value proposition.
Sure, DEPM isn’t purely factual like, say, your divinely inspired knowledge of the internal thinking of NBA market actors that enables you to pronounce both the OG trade and re-signing as massively overpays. It’s not purely factual like your adamant conviction that DeJounte Murray would have the opposite effect for our team than he’s had for the Hawks. But it’s a hell of a lot better than the *nothing* you offered as to the relative defensive value of players A & B.
Sample sizes matter, not just in terms of depth but in terms of breadth. One matchup against Embiid’s Golden Whistle is not very highly representative of a player’s overall quality.
If you really thought defensive performance against the Embiids and the Giannises of the world are the most important indicators, you wouldn’t be completely ignoring OG’s defensive value in your risible attempts to prove that IQ is the better player.
Has anyone ever considered the possibility that E is a ChatGPT troll-bot targeted at Knickerblogger by r/knicks
I thought Quickley had the unfortunate “stinks in the playoffs” gene. Guess that doesn’t matter anymore. New narrative employed.
Is this an argument that 3&D wings are undervalued in NBA contracts? Are you posting from 2014 using some sort of internet time machine?
Is it? What did we pay for Jalen Brunson two years ago again? What was he ready to accept from the Mavs before that even happened?
Did they? I seem to recall Tobias Harris getting 180m/5y in 2019. You know, 30% of the cap vs. OG’s 25%…
Tobias Harris isn’t a 3-D wing. He’s been a 22-23 USG guy for years. 22.8 the year he signed that contract. He also rebounds quite a bit better than OG or other 3-D wings.
Blasphemous I know — don’t stone me — but OG’s actually kind of a shitty/mediocre rebounder. The thought of him playing any significant minutes at smallball 4 should probably be dispensed with.
Get with the program, JK. He passed that on to DDV on his way to catch the plane to Toronto.
It’s an argument that the league pays a premium for the guys who have the ball in their hands most of the time.
I don’t know if you heard, but that turned out to be a team-friendly deal.
They did.
Tobias Harris was not a 3-and-D wing. He was a stretch 4 who Philly stupidly thought was going to be their Khris Middleton.
Any more soft serve today? 😉
OG played basically all his minutes at smallball 4 after he returned from his elbow injury.
With Josh Hart, who covered up for the rebounding issue. (And more; dude’s a rebounding savant.)
I thought Josh Hart did.
OG was usually guarding a ball handler or a wing. Precious or Hart usually covered the big.
Not to ignore the Great Perpetual OG/IQ Debate, but I wanted to say +1 to Jalen Smith. Whatever we do with centers, our one remaining hole will be that we have no one over 6’8″ who can really shoot. He can and then some, and he’s a surprisingly respectable rebounder. Could Thibs stomach him as a stretch 5 in spots?
The 5 Knicks positions are:
* Do all the offense
* Shoots ball
* Winner
* Defend best player
* Get ball from Brunson, give back to Brunson
E appears to be creaping towards learning that the job of a front office is to assemble the best team, not maximize certain players individual stats. In a year or two he’ll be talking about concepts like “Defense” and complaining the front office is stupid for letting a winner like Josh Hart get to free agency
Overall, OG is overpaid, it’s fine. He hit unrestricted free agecy in the perfect year for him.
i don’t know how to scan the archives…but I would say several times..i know i posited it one time…
Should someone break it to him that it’s not really that important that Quickley has better individual numbers than OG on offense because our team needs elite switchable wing defense a hell of a lot more than it needs more PG scoring?
The only fella that takes pops to the woodshed in these here parts is Mr Jim Dolan!
Knicks seemed to miss OG against Indiana when he wasn’t around to cover Siakam who plays PF for Indiana.
Given that Claxton was also an unrestricted free agent, he just signed for four years and $100M, and he’s not as good as Hartenstein, that doesn’t bode well for us to re-sign iHart.
That’s just a “fit” thing, though; doesn’t really get at anything I said.
Re. Jalen Smith, you have to put a lot of emphasis on the 144 3PAs he had last year.
For reference, Donte shot his 144th 3PA before Christmas.
I feel the same way and am done with this.
Leon gets an A. Leon Jr gets an A+.
OG against Philly did a pretty good job playing smallball 4 when he was helping to protect the rim and even covering Embiid at times. Also it was hilarious trying to watch Tobias trying to score on OG during the rare occasions when Tobias remembered he was actually on the court.
OG’s shape shifting defensive presence is hardly comparable to some of the other 3 and D or stretch 4 players that have hit the market recently.
Let’s see what Herb Jones ends up earning when he hits FA in two years if his shooting continues.
To speak in terms E understands: OG is a Tier 1A defender, IQ is a tier 3C defender, and RJ doesn’t make the tier list.
Yes, please. 🙂
Last offseason i was in favor of getting him the minute the Kings released him, because i think he is way better than Sims. But now i’m hearing the Celtics will offer him a standard contract, so he’ll probably stay put.
Forget about cap rules, would any of you trade OG back to Toronto for IQ and RJ?
Perhaps more interesting…
OG plays A to A+ level defense at the PoA against 1-5s. He makes A+ rotations and closeouts. He’s an A at switching and going over screens. You get the idea. He’s extremely high-level at every defensive facet you want a wing to be good at, and then some.
IQ gets an A++ at making rotations but his efficacy there is limited at times by his size. He might be able to rotate to tag the dunkers spot or roll man, but when you’re 6’3″ it won’t always mean much. He’s maybe a C on-ball.
Grimes is a B+ on-ball, losing points for his inability to pressure ballhandlers. Maybe an A- getting over screens and a C off-ball.
Sims is an A+ defending centers 1-on-1, when switching he gets an B, but gets an F in drop coverage and generally protecting the rim, which makes him unplayable.
iHart might be worse than Sims when playing guys like Jokic or Embiid in the post, but he’s an A+ rim-protector and PnR defender.
Precious is maybe a C+/B- across the board.
A lot of players are “good” at defense, but there’s different skills and levels. OG has more skills and he’s on another level within those skills.
Man, the designated shit-splatterers on this site are really in top form today!
We just lost E to pelicansblogger. Godspeed, and may they sign Reddish too 🫡
I wonder what the Hawks are doing
I wonder if that novice bum Masai Ujiri overpayed IQ by $$50M because IQ’s agent planted lies about several other teams lining up to max him…seriously, I thought Masai was a top-notch negotiator…how did he get duped by the same bullshit line that Leon swallowed?
I assume E will now be a Pelicans fan!
That’s a light return, or I suppose a return commensurate to DJM’s value.
So far, Landry Fields’ GMing is as good as his shot post-elbow injury.
Hawks get Dyson Daniels in the trade, who was not terrible as a 20 year old and has some boxscore-stuffing ability, plus the two 1RPs.
I actually like DJM as a player and think he was woefully miscast in Atlanta. This should be a good opportunity for him in New Orleans. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him have a nice season there in a role that suits his talent better.
Atlanta is so much in flux right now that it’s tough to make sense out of anything they are doing. Are they now fully committed to building around Trae? Yeesh! And who knows whether Risacher will be any good?
Speaking of shit splatter…
Well is E was saying that we could have gotten Dejounte for a lower price than we paid for Mikal, he’s definitely right about that.
Oh no, brace yourselves, the barrage is coming.
I would if Jalen Brunson weren’t here.
The trade was about fit, you know?
It was a pretty fair swap. I doubt Toronto is hankering to get OG back.
“Speaking of shit splatter…”
I’m honored that you recognized it for what it was, since you and your comrade E have elevated it to an art form….
On a serious note, good for the Hawks to go for a retool, they have to hope Risacher pays off and they have a bunch of interesting young pieces now. I guess this also means they’re committing to Trae Young as their lead guard and I think that was the right decision overall, he has glaring flaws but he can be an extremely talented offensive player and those are very hard to replace.
Speaking of Shit splatter, remind me to tell yall about my sojourn to Berlin. Skat skat skat…
EB, grade Mitch! Grade Mitch!
When, you know, he’s not injured…
This is gonna suck bc even though I prefer the Bridges trade we made, one could make a reasonable argument that Murray at the lower cost would have been a better move.
And I imagine “one” will make said argument quite often.
You guys let E bother you too much.
Murray didn’t go to Villanova.
I think Claxton signing for 4/100 is very promising. He is younger and healthier than Hartenstein and there is a strong argument he has a higher ceiling. I like Hartenstein more but I doubt his value on the open market is higher than Claxton’s. If Hartenstein’s offers are more in line with 4/80 or even 4/90 he might take our offer and stay here. If they start climbing to or above 4/100 I think he is gone but I am not sure if that is going to happen.
As for Murray, his low price doesn’t upset me because I would much rather have Bridges but it does make me think we bid against ourselves in our dealings with the Nets. I find it hard to believe that if we held the Milwaukee pick (at least) out of the trade we wouldn’t still have had the best offer.
I think we overpaid not because it wasn’t worth it but because it probably wasn’t necessary to pay that much, especially if the reports that he requested a trade here and only here was true.
Hard to predict what will happen if iHart walks. Jalen Smith is not a terrible idea but he doesn’t really protect the rim. Goga seems the most like a poor man’s iHart. Can Thibs/Bryant rehabilitate Bamba or Wiseman?
I’m pretty sure everyone who has commented at me on Reddit about the fall of Chevron doctrine (“it spit on due process”) and the Grants Pass homeless camping ban (“if you sleep in public, go to jail”) have been the same AI chatbot that E’s consciousness stems from.
One of the nice things about the draft this year is it gives us a reason to watch summer league again
Othella Harrington replaced Kenny Payne as our big man whisperer. And seems to have done a great job at that?
Begley: “Yes, they also could generate more money to spend in free agency by trading a veteran like Mitchell Robinson or Julius Randle. But the Knicks didn’t pivot from the Bridges trade with a plan to move Randle, per people in touch with the team. I’m not here to predict the future and say definitively that the Knicks won’t trade Randle, but the Bridges trade did not trigger a distinct plan to make that kind of trade, per people in touch with the team”
From https://sny.tv/articles/knicks-julius-randle-trade-isaiah-hartenstein-salary-cap
“I think Claxton signing for 4/100 is very promising. He is younger and healthier than Hartenstein and there is a strong argument he has a higher ceiling. I like Hartenstein more but I doubt his value on the open market is higher than Claxton’s. If Hartenstein’s offers are more in line with 4/80 or even 4/90 he might take our offer and stay here. If they start climbing to or above 4/100 I think he is gone but I am not sure if that is going to happen.”
I disagree with this. I have heard at least two opposing coaches absolutely rave about Hartenstein’s outsized impact on defense and the boards. As to age and health concerns, he just turned 26 and played 82 and 75 regular season games and 11 and 13 playoff games in the past 2 seasons, which is more than Claxton did. I don’t see any argument at all to believe Claxton has a higher ceiling than Hartenstein, let alone a strong one. iHart’s advanced stats are significantly higher than Claxton’s, especially EPM.
“As for Murray, his low price doesn’t upset me because I would much rather have Bridges but it does make me think we bid against ourselves in our dealings with the Nets.”
It was widely reported that other teams were bidding for Mikal, most notably the Jazz and Rockets, who easily could have offered a similar package, perhaps with a good young players instead of a pick. They are also in the West and not crosstown rivals, let alone the same division. The Knicks certainly did not bid against themselves. Those differences are fairly factored into the cost. I think the KFS pod with Evan Roberts covers this very well from a Nets fan’s perspective…If we didn’t significanty outbid Houston or Utah, we weren’t going to get him. Would the Nets have turned up their nose at a deal without the Milwaukee pick? Maybe, maybe not. We’ll probably never know.
Goga is first on my backup big list, especially in a Thibs system. He’s a middle class—rather than lower class—version of I-Hart—pretty solid defender, fairly mobile, and has plus passing. He’d fit into the Thibs system without missing a beat.
Jalen Smith is really interesting as a big who can give you a different look on offense—where he’s really quite good. His defensive numbers are pretty uninspiring though—definitely not an anchor. If you think Thibs could coach him up, he might be a higher upside play. You could also argue that with Mikal, OG, Hart, etc. our backup center doesn’t have to be all-world defensively, though I’m not really sure I believe that. I’d be happy with either ultimately.
Kolek here makes it easier to trade Deuce, no? Why, with all of this baroque shit talking going on, has this not been mentioned? I hope we don’t though because I’m, like, a Knicks fan.
I love Hartenstein for the same reason but we don’t need two 5s that can’t shoot outside of the paint. Cs just won after trading their traditional five. We can play five out or pound the offensive glass with Mitch. Why is this not mentioned? Y’all are too smart to see some basics sometimes. Glad to be here to help lolol
Jalen and Haliburton had a staredown at whatever WWE show is on tonight
also logan paul is apparently a professional wrestler now
Smackdown at MSG tonight great stuff!
Chevron doctrine is a fucking thing. Can we have a reset button. Like I fucking loved contra. What a game.
Deuce is more of a combo guard and not a real point guard, and his strength is defense, so he seems like a good complementary player to Kolek to me
Fun fact I just learned about Susan Tedeschi of KB favorites the Tedeschi Trucks band.
Susan Tedeschi provided the scholarship that acclaimed songwriter Adrianne Lenker of the great band Big Thief utilized to attend Berklee School Of Music.
I’m a big fan of Deuce, always have been through thick and thin. He’s a nice player on an excellent contract. But he’s the most dispensable rotation player on the roster. If we have to lose him to keep iHart, c’est la vie. But Kolek is not the answer, we would have to find an actual NBA-caliber player.
I like Kolek…he was an excellent value pick at #34…but I find it hard to believe that he could be a positive contributor in any role for us this year, and probably next (see: McBride, Miles). He’s a pure PG with limited athleticism, and that’s the hardest position to play in today’s NBA. He is only superficially similar to Brunson. On closer inspection, he is not particularly good in the paint against length or in the mid-range at all. And Brunson was lousy as a rookie and just so-so as a second-year player.
If there is a way to overpay Kolek and package him in a trade with a future second to free up space for Hartenstein, I’d much rather do that than include Deuce.
My God the Hawks are such a joke I can’t even process it. All they really needed was a real rim protector and to dump Hunter. Now this trade… at least they’ve got the Braves down there.
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