[New York Post] – Sun, 31 Mar 2024 00:00:00 GMT
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[New York Daily News] – Sat, 30 Mar 2024 13:32:49 GMT
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[Daily Knicks] – Sat, 30 Mar 2024 21:00:00 GMT
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[Daily Knicks] – Sat, 30 Mar 2024 12:00:02 GMT
Grade the Trade: Knicks jettison All-Star for hated irritant in bold new pitch
115 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.03.31)”
Seems pretty clear now that this season is a wash. That’s so disappointing. Randle and OG cannot be expected to play or play much in the playoffs. Also have to wonder about OG’s injury history and expectations for a new contract. Ugh.
cgreene is this from your source?
From my considerable gut. No source.
Ok.
Marrying a player with his history to a coach with Thibs’ is going to be one of the biggest risks in franchise history. And we have to take it. The reward is too high. Plus Morey’s probably waiting in the wings to overpay if we ask for a discount.
They clearly brought OG back too soon or this “flare up” wouldn’t be taking as long to resolve itself as it is. The only positive spin I can come up with is that since it flared up once maybe they are being extra cautious this time because they can’t afford to lose him for the playoffs.
It would be nice to get some news about what he’s doing. This organization is ridiculous. Is he running, shooting, practicing, taking contact?
I’m getting less optimistic on Randle. I didn’t like that “some days are better than others” comment from Thibs.
I didn’t like that “some days are better than others” comment from Thibs.
Yes, that was a strange comment in the context of his injury and what I assume the rehab without surgery process is. By now he should certainly be feeling fine and the determination of him being healed would be some strength exercise which should not have any setbacks, just perhaps a recalibration of likely progress.
OK, back to searching for some eggs…
Pretty safe to assume today that SGA will get 2x the FTA on 17 FGA than Brunson got on 47 the other day.
Saw some stats the other day showing that the NBA’s secret post-ASB officiating “adjustments” took us from 15th in FTA to 29th… I’d be more upset about it if it wasn’t increasingly clear our season is over anyway. Kinda hoping we don’t commit to OG at this point, at his price we will be paying over 1M per game.
It’s been two weeks since OG went down for the second time. I truly can’t imagine that the MRI was as “clean” as was indicated. Something is causing the inflammation. It’s either a bursitis, tendon, or bone issue. The way he hollered in pain in his return makes me think it’s one of the latter two.
SGA had been listed as doubtful for today, but they just moved him up to questionable, so we’ll see how spry he is if he plays.
They brought OG back too soon, he reaggravated his injury, then Thibs left him on the floor anyway, and now he is once again unavailable.
They brought Mitch back too soon, he reaggravated his injury, then Thibs left him on the floor anyway, and now he is once again unavailable.
See the pattern here? Rush them back, then leave them in the game when they invariably get reinjured. ThibsBall!
Small consolation Alan, I believe the new rulebook provides that SGA shall be awarded 31 points immediately upon arrival at the arena.
They brought Mitch back too soon, he reaggravated his injury,
Always worried that if Mitch came back too soon he would injure some other body part. He did within 22minutes of his return. Ain’t Thibs fault, but agree just take him out, put him back on the shelf, and return for the play-in game.
If Thibs can’t be counted on to properly manage the teams best players and he treats every game like a game 7 in the playoffs the Knicks have to think hard before giving him a long term extension. I think they should put in a call for Jay Wright and see if he wants to return to coaching and coach the Nova guys.
Once again, it is not Thibs’ job to monitor injuries, it’s the job of the medical/training staff. The medical staff cleared him to play after he re-aggravated his elbow. This is common practice around the league. Players are re-inserted after wincing in pain all the time, even players that are coming off of surgery. And the idea that Thibs ignores what he is told by the medical staff is preposterous.
If anything, the Knicks have a terrible medical team.
Small batch of players, but many players around the league probably feel the same.
“They brought Mitch back too soon, he reaggravated his injury”
The injury was to the non-surgical foot. It should be treated like any other ankle tweak.
“Always worried that if Mitch came back too soon he would injure some other body part. He did within 22minutes of his return. Ain’t Thibs fault, but agree just take him out, put him back on the shelf, and return for the play-in game.”
I don’t get this way of thinking at all. Mitch is injury prone, but you can’t wrap him in bubble wrap until the playoffs start. You work him back in to the degree that his injury status calls for, unless and until you have nothing to play for.
“Small batch of players, but many players around the league probably feel the same”
Did they ask why they felt that way about Thibs? My guess would be that Thibs playing his players too many minutes would be very low on the list.
Thibs has lots of annoying quirks, including his lineup preferences and style-of-play preferences. For example, he is very demanding about defensive responsibilities and prioritizes that over offensive execution. He is stubborn when it comes to changing up what he thinks works best. If you are in his doghouse, you tend to stay there. He definitely plays favorites. He is a weirdo with no social life whatsoever, it’s 100% basketball all day, every day.
Does anyone think Grimes, IQ, Obi, or Fournier hated Thibs because he played them too many minutes? Or that RJ was glad to be off the Knicks because Thibs played him too many minutes?
If the guy is visibly wincing and limping around maybe take him out of the game.
If the guy yelps out in obviously agonizing pain after bending his injured elbow the wrong way maybe take him out of the game.
Or I dunno, maybe go with the “rub some dirt in it” philosophy and send him back out there. Either way is cool I guess.
Again, coaches around the NBA (and in all other sports) do this all the time. Knicks fans are hyper-sensitized because the big, bad Thibs is dead set on aggravating injuries to his best players just ’cause he can.
The injury was to the non-surgical foot. It should be treated like any other ankle tweak.
same left foot
“
This was one of the players answer
As mentioned above and sorry to conflict with a really cool narrative but Mitch tweaked the opposite ankle to the one that was surgically repaired. Mitch DOES have a history of frequent ankle sprains. Thibs Is clearly guilty of not duct taping Mitch’s bubble wrap tight enough pre game. Even on resurrection day I have to say “Jesus!”
If Thibs has final say over playing time in any individual game, then it absolutely is his responsibility to manage injuries.
If Brunson snaps his leg in half, Thibs can’t say, “This game is too important, get back on the court.” It would be gross negligence and 100% his responsibility when Brunson’s leg falls off.
He’s got to have basic common sense not to squeeze an extra 10 minutes out of guys who get clearly hurt while coming back from serious injuries.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/mitchell-robinson-s-knicks-return-comes-with-new-injury-question-mark/ar-BB1kOd7m
I assume Steph Bondy knows left from right,
“SAN ANTONIO — A side benefit of the Knicks’ foul issues and drama Friday was a longer look at Mitchell Robinson, who played all but 12 seconds of overtime and felt good about the performance.
The downside is that he also came up with an injury, spraining his left ankle (not his surgically repaired one) after landing awkwardly on a dunk attempt.
A guy with a painful right ankle is much more likely to put weight on the left ankle and reaggravate it through overcompensation.
It’s just not worth the risk. That Spurs game was intense, everybody wanted to win, and it was important to our position in the standings. And still, it was absolutely NOT worth it to win at the cost of potentially losing Mitch for more time. It’s just a regular season game.
Getting healthy is all that matters now. I’d so much rather have the 7th seed with everyone healthy and rested than squeezing every last drop out of their bodies to get the 3rd seed.
OOOOPS… I must take the “L”… Steph Bondy was incorrect and seems not to know his left from right… my fault to listening to authority figures 🙂
This overcompensation notion is completely true with athletes in all types of sports. If Mitch had a painful surgically repaired ankle, he shouldn’t have been cleared to play by the medical staff.
Yeah, Bondy got me too.
This might sounds naive but honest question: If a player feels pain, is he not allowed to say “coach, I’m hurt, I need to sit”?
Also re: Mitch’s injury, it’s pretty common to hurt the opposing side of a weight-bearing injury because that other side has been overcompensating for months. I’m not too concerned there.
Randle probably should’ve just had the surgery… and maybe that will still happen.
OG, on the other hand, is a bummer. Just gotta move forward, re-sign him, and hope for the best. At least we have 2 draft picks so we can draft some Randle/OG insurance.
Edit: you beat me to it, Oakman
Edit x 2: lol never mind
I’ve never seen a guy ask out and not be taken out. I’ve seen many times that a guy was taken out and waved the coach off. Kurt Thomas is the most famous example.
Without question the process for dealing with the expected injury load needs to be addressed by the Knick’s management. Too many times there are similar outcomes. A guy gets injured… he comes back and sustains a re-injure or a probably related injury. That happens… but it happens too often here.
Klay insisting on shooting free throws in the playoff with a torn ACL so he would be eligible to be re-inserted into the game when it was pretty clear he was seriously injured is another one.
“Klay insisting on shooting free throws in the playoff with a torn ACL so he would be eligible to be re-inserted into the game when it was pretty clear he was seriously injured is another one.”
And Durant returned prematurely from an achilles injury and blew it out. Of course, these happened in the NBA finals, so it’s not really apples to apples, but there are zillions of players who come back from injury and re-aggravate it, despite best intentions and regardless of the amount of rest. Yao. Grant Hill. Walton. But there are way more players with the exact same injuries who come back on the same timeline and play the same amount of minutes who don’t re-aggravate it.
Brunson has returned from a number of knee and ankle episodes, and has been playing all year with a banged-up hand/wrist. JHart had a knee issue and played through it. iHart played through the same achilles injury last year and it got better without missing a game. Julius played through lingering ankle soreness after his surgery and played like shit the first 8 games, only to play like his all-nba self for months after that.
From Fred Katz at the time of Mitch’s original injury:
Well two things are clear from this quote:
1) the player never played for Thibs
2) it was more about “he likes you or he doesn’t, and if you get in his doghouse, you stay there” than “he plays you too many minutes.”
And we have enough experience to know this. Again, Obi, IQ, Grimes, Cam, and the extreme case of Fournier all felt that they wanted more minutes. OTOH, I don’t recall players complaining that he played too many minutes.
We also know that Mike D’Antoni rode Lin like Secretariat, and Lin needed to play because he ran Chris Duhon into the ground. We know that no Knick is in the top 15 in minutes per game. We know that our top minutes guy, Jalen Brunson, plays less MPG and has not played over 40 minutes more times than geezers like LeBron or Durant, or usage-monster doughboy Doncic, who despite some injuries has played over 40 minutes 21 times!
This is not to argue that Thibs doesn’t play his guys excessive minutes, only that he’s not the outlier that some here make him out to be.
In his second game back, Mitch played all but 13 seconds of an overtime period limping after he injured the same foot that caused him to miss three months, and Thibs’ shills are still shilling.
OG Anunoby screamed out in pain in his surgically-repaired elbow on a plain vanilla basketball play. That in and of itself is a massive red flag.(*)
Then, not only did he play a bunch more in the same game after screaming out in pain, he almost unbelievably played 33 minutes the very next game while clearly barely being able to lift his arm and shoot the basketball.
This is indefensible on every level.
And the inherent conflict of interest between team doctors and team athletes is so well-known and old to be virtually cliche at this point. The doctors work for the team. They don’t work for the players.
(*) No, it wasn’t “scar tissue” with arthroscopic surgery, or something similarly ridiculous.
The medical staff has obviously mishandled our injury issues also, but it’s Thibs that takes unwarranted risks and runs them into the ground as soon as they are cleared to play.
Unrelated to the prior injury or not, Mitch was obviously struggling a bit and maybe gassed the other night when he landed poorly and hurt the ankle worse. Then he was limping worse. I realize that I-Hart was also hurt, but Mitch should have been removed and Sims should have played. That game against the Spurs was not an meaningful as keeping Mitch on the court long term when we might lose the game anyway…and did.
If people can’t see that OG should have been pulled the moment he screamed in pain I don’t know what to say.
What an intelligent team does is weigh the risk/reward of a recurring or worse injury for that player given his specific the injury vs. the need to win that specific game and the increased probability of winning if he plays.
For example: The correct decision in the playoffs is different than the correct decision in a somewhat meaningless late season game when the primary goal is to be healthy for the upcoming playoffs.
“Then, not only did he play a bunch more in the same game after screaming out in pain, he almost unbelievably played 33 minutes the very next game while clearly barely being able to lift his arm and shoot the basketball.”
So the medical staff not only cleared him to play the rest of that game, they had two days to evaluate him and still cleared him to play the next game?
I don’t see how that is in any way Thibs’ fault.
Mitch is questionable for tonight, meaning that whatever harm he suffered by playing 20 whole minutes, including 4+ whole minutes in OT of a critical game, seems to not have been fatal.
Just a wild guess, but if the medical staff clears Mitch to play, Thibs is gonna play him. If they don’t, he won’t. Just like any other coach in the NBA would (or wouldn’t.)
We know — you’ve made it perfectly clear that really nothing is Thibs’s fault.
The medical staff clearing a player is the beginning of the analysis, not the end. Nor is there any support for Thibs’s stated principle that “if the medical staff clears someone, they’re good to go 48 minutes.” (*) That’s pure bullshit and the other organizations/coaches in fact do not work that way.
(*) As if it’s out of Thibs’s power to say, “Player X was cleared to play, but he’s been a bit nicked up and we have four games in the next week, so I wanted to keep him fresh and healthy and so I only played him 23 minutes tonight.” Pull the other one.
“…in a somewhat meaningless late season game…”
There are no somewhat meaningless games at this time, and there haven’t been for a long time. The narrative around the league is that it’s amazing that the Knicks are positioned where they are given that they have played like 50 games without their DPoY candidate and a shitload of games without Randle or OG. Only on Knickerblogger are we reading about how Thibs doesn’t know what he’s doing and is either unwittingly or purposely injuring his own players.
No, he’s literally had this reputation and for good reason since about 2012.
And now it’s happening yet again.
“We know — you’ve made it perfectly clear that really nothing is Thibs’s fault.”
You’ve made it perfectly clear that you can’t grasp any nuance in discussing a player or a coach. One either agrees with all of your incessant demonizing hot takes re: Thibs or is a shill.
I think Thibs is not as good of a coach as Pop, or Spo, or Kerr. He’s in the next level, where the D’Antoni’s, Nurse’s, etc. are. He’s clearly better than the Doc’s, Donovan’s, Brown’s etc. are. Very few coaches would have the success he’s had with the Knicks teams he has coached. Most good coaches would have handled the injury situations with his players similarly. Many coaches play their players big minutes, keep their starters in too long in blowouts, etc.
to be honest – I’m kind of more comfortable with the whole: new york knicks are a lost cause portion of fandom…
that january surge left me disillusioned…
I feel like now that we are back to the doom and gloom part of the season – all is right again for the knicks…
although in all fairness – doom and gloom is now defined as getting home court advantage in the playoffs and expecting a first or second round exit…
doom and gloom are both relative a guess…
In any case, I’m going to the game tonight with daughter, first time sitting with the riff-raff in the upper bowl in like forever. Hopefully Mitch will play more than 0 but less than 48 minutes.
Kind of annoying the NBA ditched the Easter matinees. I’m used to watching basketball on this holiday.
Did anybody say that Thibs is purposely injuring his own players? Or is that just some straw man bullshit?
Does Kemba Walker ring a bell?
All the reasons people say Edey won’t succeed in the NBA are kind of drying up IMO. I still don’t think he’s mobile enough to be a starter on a good team, but he’s gotten exponentially better in that regard and being able to hit FTs is pretty big (no pun intended).
Easy call with a second-rounder.
I am officially confused. Did Mitch limp on the same ankle? I originally responded to JK’s post based on reports it was the other ankle and not a re-injury. But are we saying it is the same ankle? If so, it ain’t our season, put Julius under the knife tomorrow, fire the OG medical team, and who cares where the blame lies while the team is still playing.
Bondy erroneously reported that it was not the surgical ankle. It actually was.
Idk if Edey is going to get 22 free throws in an NBA game, but yeah, he’s worth a flier as a backup center.
Juan Soto is already the greatest athlete in NY history.
I’ll tell you what a bullshit argument is: arguing that when a medical staff clears a player, and the player says he’s good to go, that it’s some kind of outlier position for a coach to play that player.
Can Juan Soto play backup point? He seems good at things.
Zach Edey will make the NBA but his college career will always define him. Just too slow for the NBA imo.
Even if that player re-aggravates the same injury? I mean, it’s one thing to play a guy if the medical staff says it’s okay, but isn’t it another thing entirely if the player re-injures the same limb in said game?
“Coach, I just broke my leg”
“Get back in there, the medical staff said that leg was fine this morning”
I think Edey should be a useful NBA player at worst. He’s got to work on his lateral movement.
That’s a stupid scenario and you know it.
It also strikes me as quite possible that Randle and OG will not get any better than they are right now, meaning that they will be playing through whatever issues they have without rest making much difference. Also meaning that they both will be back next week whether there is improvement or not, or whether off-season surgery is inevitable or not.
I’m making a joke with the second part of that post but the original point stands.
Yes, medical cleared Mitch to play. So far so good. The problem people are having is that Thibs sent him back in AFTER RE-INJURING THE BODY PART THAT WAS INJURED IN THE FIRST PLACE.
That seems like an entirely reasonable thing to question, and responding to that with “medical said he was okay to play” seems like a rather absurd defense to be honest. He re-injured the ankle. At that point the pre-game medical report becomes kind of irrelevant, does it not?
No, it doesn’t. Medical cleared him to remain in the game. Case closed. And as it turns out, they did not yet rule him out for today, so seems like their call was sound. If it were a re-injury, he’d surely be out, no?
And if not, what does that say about the medical staff? Being that they just went through clearing OG to play the game after he re-aggravated his elbow?
Well, guess who is listed as “out” for tonight’s game
Meaning, the medical staff is doing its job.
Repeating “medical cleared him to play” ad nauseum doesn’t acquit Thibs of acting like a fool. There’s a pretty broad spectrum of medical clearance, after all. Y’all act like it means “this player is now 100% healthy, treat him like he never got hurt.” Often it just means “the next step in this player’s recovery is to see how he handles game play.” A coach still has to pay attention to things like “noticeably limping on the injured foot” or “screaming in agony while holding the injured elbow.”
Okay, first the medical staff not ruling him out for today means their call (to send him back into the game) was sound.
He’s been ruled out now, so you’d think that would mean maybe their call wasn’t so sound.
Nope! Head you win, tails I lose.
Let’s not make up shit to support arguments. Medical evaluations are likely very specific. Coaches do what they’re told .
This kind of thing plays out with tweaked ankles all the time, again, stop making shit up.
By the way, if you’re suggesting that the medical staff fucked up, then that’s totally different than blaming the coach.
I don’t really know man, the whole system they have going seems kind of less than ideal. Mitch is now the second player in recent weeks who came back from an injury, appeared to re-injure the original injury, got sent back into the game anyway in obvious discomfort, then promptly landed back on the list of unavailable players.
Maybe Mitch will be back soon and maybe not, but none of this looks very good or normal.
Medical didn’t make that call and Mitch didn’t leave the game. He wasn’t examined. He just ran around limping til the game was over.
Alec Burks is available and i’m not sure if that’s good news or bad news! 😀
There’s an organizational failure to prevent injury. I don’t care whose fault it is, it needs to be fixed.
Leon has the power to correct whatever flaw exists in the organization short of finding a new owner. The buck ultimately stops with him. If you need to blame someone, blame Leon until it’s fixed.
A couple of thoughts.
The medical team might have final say but also Thibs’ influence over them might sway them to say a player is ok when they really aren’t.
I’ve worked at plenty of places where heads of other departments weren’t my boss but they still pulled way more power than me and I had to bend to their will even when they were wrong.
Also the medical staff has been an issue for a long time. I remember famously when Phil took over he was allowed to clean house with everyone except the medical team.
The issue might be them and not Thibs directly although Thibs might have the strongest voice and ear to Leon over everyone else in the organization.
I’ve generally been pro Thibs on this issue and think it’s been overblown but seeing Mitch hobble around in OT like that really stood out. He should have been pulled immediately and sims inserted since IHart had fouled out.
I’m not blaming Leon Rose for keeping Mitch in the game after he sprained his ankle. There’s only one person to blame for that, and you have to be a pathological shill to deflect it anywhere else.
You’re probably right about all that, Swift.
“Medical” doesn’t “clear” a player to play who’s limping around in the game already. The entire idea is absurd, invented for the purpose of shilling.
Automatic loss.
Gooooo Knicks! 🏀
2 Harts!!!
No Game Thread?
I guess everyone has quit on the season.
Best part about the Yankees being good again is now I can go back to not expecting much from the Knicks.
Niche question, is iHart the best player we’ve had in the last few decades who could reasonably be defined as a “role player?”
I love iHart but is he better or more valuable than guys like Oak, Mase or even the Knicks version of LJ?
They’ve missed some chippies here, but the iHart/Brunson 2-man game could become a good staple for us.
Here no one quits on the season… it’s easter man, come on!
Easter 2012 was the Melo game vs Chicago and Thibs!
A well deserved ovation for Clyde! We’re so lucky to have him!
Ugh here come the Detroiters.
Tyson Chandler or regular season Jason Kidd maybe?
Anyone noticed Clyde trying to say Wembanyama? If it was one of us, Doogie would be mad! Wembayama, if i’m not mistaken. LOL
This has the feel of an afternoon game
Precious block
They have Jalen Williams and Jaylin Williams, but we can easily match it… if we trade for Bogdan Bogdanovic! 😀
What a surprise, opposing superstar listed as questionable plays 100% of the time. SGA’s 37 free throws will be a very exciting juxtaposition against Brunson getting hacked all game
Bogey should probably never take the ball to the basket
There’s a really interesting looking person sitting right behind Thibs
Burks has actually turned into a pumpkin
Is Daigneault trying to re-injure SGA? 😀
Jaylen Williams’ jump shot is so pure
Idk how anyone can watch Bojan struggle to close out on a shooter and think he’s a viable playoff defender
Not being able to dominate the boards vs OKC is pretty pathetic.
They’re 28th in offensive reb % and 29th in defensive reb %.
I don’t think JWill would be able to get those mid range jumpers off so easily if OG was guarding him…
I’m forgiving when it comes to J-Dub because I personally didn’t have him ranked all that highly in that draft. But this hurts. We’d be insane with that guy.
I thought he’d be very good, but nowhere near how good he already is
Hopefully SGA stays dormant the rest of the game.
Maybe if we use our draft picks, we can find a gem. Just saying! 😉
Are you trying to pull a Cronin?
Brunson with the sarcastic applause for the refs
New thread up
Man these heart in throat moments have been so fun to end this year
Dort personally trying to ruin our season
3 ball finally dropping for us