The new-look Knicks are enough of a draw (and, let’s face it, nostalgia for the 1990s Knicks/Bulls series) that they have been moved to be the ABC Primetime game tonight, which is a really cool thing for the Knicks. I mean, it doesn’t really mean anything, but it’s still cool!
The Bulls are playing with a very thin roster, and so they’ve turned to defense to carry them through, and their D has been very good.
Luckily, Good D/bad O is a perfect matchup for the Knicks, as they try to build on their huge win against Minnesota by starting a nice winning streak.
Let’s go, Knicks!
197 replies on “2023-24 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bulls (ABC Primetime Opener, which is kind of a thing)”
So the Bulls are kind of good now?
Bogadan
B, OG…Damn!
waiting for my food…they’ve just recently changed ownership…hoping they maintained the same recipes…
I believe so, I see a bunch of them still training in the back…
fooooood fooooood…
and now, sitting here laughing about bogadan…
wow, they’ve really cleaned this place up nice…never realized just how dingy the place was before…a lot less clutter on the walls…foooooood…
Meanwhile, my son just pointed out to me that Joel Embiid is averaging 34.8 ppg, which translates to 36.8 pts per 36. For comparison, Wilt averaged 37.4 pts per 36 in his 50.4 per game season.
Phenomenal.
I watched much of the game against Philly last night. The Bulls looked miserable on both ends of the floor. I hope to witness the same tonight ššš
Not a good sign. The best food comes from the most rundown, hole in the wall shops.
I was gonna watch it on ABC but I find Ryan Ruoccoās voice kind of annoying.
I predicted 50 wins, and I’ll stick with it even though Mitch went down. Mitch is worth 6 wins in my book, but increased playing time for iHart mitigates that somewhat to 4 fewer wins. I think OG is worth maybe 6 more wins than RJ, but losing IQ is probably 5 fewer wins.
Point being that the real issue remains losing Quick. If we had him AND Mitch and OG I’d be at 54 wins. Pretty close to contender.
But we don’t have Quick… So we need a move to get back to 50.
Ok, that was way too baroque. I just mean that the net of all that’s happened still leaves us short of my prediction, but only because we aren’t done yet and surely will make another move.
Don’t scare me EB. I so desperately need this to be everything I’ve imagined over thr last couple of days.
I just received my food, and the world is right once more.
I’m rooting for you and your food!!!
I donāt believe in jinxes, so Iāll say right here the Knicks really havenāt had any bad losses this year (the Jazz have actually played well lately)
Please donāt hate me š
I actually like Ruocco, he’s excellent when he fills in for Michael Kay on Yes for Yankees games.
Everybody revise your predictions down 1
I’m going with ABC, if only to avoid Wally…
Letās go!!!
The coast is clear of Wally, it’s Albert and Hahn.
Is it me, or is iHart just getting better and better as a rim protector?
That Randle pass looked like it hurt somebody
Julius really loves throwing dumb passes
Julius with the fastball lol
ball movement
I do miss having Quickley to look forward to. The Precious Achiuwa anticipation doesn’t do it for me.
Multiple UFOās spotted in MSG
Looks like it’ll be Randle with the second unit tonight
What on Earth did Josh Hart just do
Hart just out Julius’d Julius
Did Hart think Yao Ming was in the corner?
Hart saw Julius and said, I can do you one better…
Mezzanine!
Ghastly turnovers galore!
More ISOs, less errant passing, come on.
What’s up with Brunson’s TOs these days?
Meanwhile Coby White is not supposed to be good but somehow always plays well against us
Messy but the effort is there at least.
Brunson doing some TS% repair after Monday
The offense with this group is, shall we say, hard to come by
UFO city so far
How many of us KNEW we wouldn’t get a shot off at the end of the quarter…
Lots of growing pains so far… looks like they’re trying to move the ball more but struggling to connect.
Went to NBA.com to check the stats and saw 1) SGA and Hali named players of the week and 2) RJ and Quick having good games in Toronto. Ouch.
Deuce-Grimes-Hart-Randle-Achiuwa, oh my.
Right now weāre looking at the problem, but letās get Deuce scoring 10/game consistently plus Grimes.
Deuce will catch up to Brunson at this rate
Lol, Deuce coming for Brunson’s record
Grimes stepback?!
Randle passing garbage right now. Passing gas. Passing out.
hmm
Noted 3 point marksmen Coby White and Demar DeRozan killing us
When washed as hell DeRozan is hitting multiple threes against you, what can you really do?
Even playing with the scrub squad Julius really has to pass out of those double teams
Feels like one of OG or Donte should be in with that 2nd unit. I think this will look a lot better in a couple weeks either way. Still not sure it’ll be good
how the heck do the pacers have the bucks number like this…
I’ve never seen a guard be this allergic to the paint like McBride is, Jesus christ… well, since Ntilikina I guess.
Put in Quickleyā¦..oops
I’ve seen some Raptors fan say that watching Achiuwa feels like watching someone who just woke up today with this body and has no idea how to move in it, and damn that’s an accurate description.
Precious not looking so great
Edit: Bruno with the better description lol
Precious is not a gem.
I think my favorite bit of irony is the guys are trying to do stuff they don’t normally do, which is exactly what they should be doing, except so far they suck at it.
Donte might need the demotion/promotion to full time 6th man
Precious not looking precocious
Toronto kicking butt tonight.
ESPN app showing highlights of Jalen Johnson dominating Chet Holmgren. Sigh.
That was my suggestion also. They need more scoring in the 2nd unit. Grimes will up his usage as a starter a little without RJ in there.
The 2nd unit got killed again.
Fourth TO for Brunson. Maybe he feels he had to pick up the slack for RJ.
The Knicks need the Benny Hill music tonight
Do not demote Donte. Starting your best players is a thing.
Some of this is unfamiliarity but a lot is just dumb unforced errors
Deeeeeeevoooooo
Donte should be an all-star
RedunDonte’s rebounding sneakily saves our skin sometimes
Clyde would say discombobulated
Mine is the part where you guys were dicks to djphan all day and now you have to watch us miserably struggle to replace the USG we sent out in the OG trade š
Itās like ray-ee-ainā¦. On your wedding dayā¦
Itās a free rideā¦ when you already paidā¦
Not getting what record of Brunson’s Deuce is “chasing.”
Personally I’d rather see the Knicks win easily
That’s exactly it, Hubie. That’s exactly it.
Bright side: we got our 13/game turnovers out of the way early, so 2nd half should be tight.
One of the ABC guys said that Knicks put up one of the worst passing halfs they’ve seen all year. I concur.
I wonder it the Griz are having buyers remorse re: swapping our Dillon Brooks for Marcus Smart…
The 2nd unit canāt score well enough as current constructed. The only scorer on the court is Randle. Double him with no help and we already know what we are going to get, bad shots and TOs. This is the 2nd night they got killed. That used to be our plus unit. Itās better to have a better starting unit, but we canāt allow the bench to get killed.
Caruso doing a good job on Randle
RJ wouldnāt have kicked out on that drive to the open DDV, heād have forced a terrible shot.
RJ wouldnāt have made that corner 3, heād have bricked it
That team has had more key injuries than any team in the NBA and Morant missed a ton of games.
Randle just threw Williams to the floor before he made that pass. Haha.
They are going to have to make another trade to help out that 2nd unit. Iām sure Thibs and Rose know that.
Hartenstein should also be an all-star
Is it beneath Taj to be the hack-a-Drummond guy?
woof both ways there
Feels like Caruso has 20 steals
I’d like to reiterate my interest in acquiring Caruso. He’s probably off the table or too expensive now though
The stats speak for themselves but it also feels like Randle is doing a lot less dumb stuff these days. I find myself trusting him with the ball more.
We would be sooooooo screwed without Donte.
Somebody on the Knicks needs to punch Caruso in the face.
oh nice clyde back friday
The Bulls are a dumb franchise and them playing well recently might make them not trade the guys they should
Youāre absolutely correctā¦ but itās fine. Most NBA teams have bad second units and they donāt mess with the starting lineup to fix it. Donteās arguably our 3rd best player. Do not bench him. Take the lumps.
Wow. Randle, man. Those last two finishes. And iHart is having a monster game.
Some quality stuff from Randle there
Seems like Randle is still pretty good when his ankle is healthy.
The idea would be to “demote” Donte but raise his usage, and probably his minutes too. It’s probably moot though, seems like he’ll get all he can handle as is.
I do miss having a reliable bench, but OG is chrome and leather (ht JK47).
Thibs is just going to play the starters 44 minutes a night
What we should do with Donte ā and it looks like Thibs is doing it tonight ā is just play him more. He only played 24 mins vs Minnesota. Heās already at 25 now.
Move him up to 32 mpg and heāll have plenty of time on the 2nd unit.
OG shutting down DeRozan this quarter
man what has got into iHart
Who’s going to lead the iHart all-defense propaganda campaign?
Exactly this. Someone must step up. I mean Grimes is/was āuntouchableā and heās a ghost now. Maybe having routine minutes and responsibilities will help.
EDIT: Grimes on cue.
Not for nothing that was some pretty good half court defense there
Big Quickley game, typical RJ game in Memphis
I understand missing the old second unit but I really like not being pissed off 9 mins into the 3Q when one of our best players still hasnāt gotten into the game.
Youāre all right that itās a problem,
but work the waiver wire or make a minor trade to fix it.
The Death Lineup is upon us.
Jeez, I step away for a bit and iHart has 16 rebounds and 5 blocks.
this is why I wanted to try to get Drummond he’s going to be rebounding when he’s 60
Coby White would be a first ballot Hall of Famer if he only played the Knicks
The Deuce experiment is… not looking good guys.
Losing to DeRozan and Coby White hitting all of their 3s is a top 5 most annoying reason to lose a game in the 2024 NBA.
Drummond seems incredibly difficult to play against for a guy who has bounced around the league so much
Back up center spot not exactly looking good
Not sure Precious can defend, folks.
TNFH brought it up earlier, why not hack a Drummond?
We may have to play the starters 40 minutes to win games. lol
That hideous possession was beautiful
OG creating 4 consecutive points
OG looking around MSG after that dunk. ~ never heard that roar before. Hahaha.
I guess we still know how to get offensive boards
Bench is garbage now but the Top 6 are fucking awesome.
Thibs in playoff rotation mode…
OG got the deflection for that fast break dunk, then forced DeRozan to pass to Ayo for a clanked 3, then scraped up that loose ball for a dunk.
gary trent jr is better than RJ…
mitch is what – 15 million a year, give isaiah 16 million and let mitch back him up…
Leon needs to make another trade otherwise Thibs will kill the starting lineup.
Playoff minutes in January. Thibs is in heaven.
I feel like DeRozan has another 4 years in him – at least on offense
Alright for the first time I’m a little worried iHart’s EB rights won’t be enough
The problem is we can’t go above $15M or so
Starters sans Randle lol
+27
+24
+23
+18
Brunson brilliant tonight
Scott foster is a douche
I was about to say why is Randle dribbling one on one against Caruso from the 3pt line lol
Empty Caloriesā¢ doing his thing
Our defense in the 4th has really, really picked it up… it’s almost as if defense is important too and Anunoby is a premier All NBA type of guy at that.
Great great possession there
Right?!
So our defense got better, our starting lineup got better and our bench got worse
Iāll take that trade off.
In the 90s that’s no foul. But it’s not the 90s.
Wow Brunson
Good defense is sometimes hard to see, but OG’s is so obviously excellent and visibly so.
And this unit is fierce on D. I like it.
that was pretty
Our 1a and 1a were pretty damn good tonight
We could definitely use a bench guy but so far redistributing the RJ shots among everyone else seems to be working out just fine. Way easier to scour the market for some bench scoring than for an OG.
It’s pretty ridiculous how long and disruptive OG is on defense.
Leon Rose really should be calling Portland right now and negotiating a price for Malcolm Brogdon, he would fit this team like a fine silk glove.
Brunson with our only double digit assists games two games in a row
1:43 to go, up 16, all our starters are still out there.
Taj just shouted at iHart, āMake your foul shots.ā Hahaha.
Glad iHart got his double-double, 10-20.
Well, took care of business against a mediocre team. But the bench issues are going to be a problem
Who needs a second unit anyway?
-Thibs
iHart is the Knicks most popular backup center since Eddie Lee Wilkins.
OG is a +54 so far as a Knick.
The ABC guys really have no idea what this team is about. Get paid to say stuff that has no value at all… This is a defensive team, Thibs is a defensive coach, the offense has never been good but they try hard, etc etc. Guys, it’s not that hard to look up some basic numbers… But I guess changing the narrative is tough.
Itās going to be hard to keep Mitch and I-Hart. Iām starting to think the correct move may be to pay I-Hart, keep him and use Mitch as an asset in a trade. Iāve said it a few times already, but if Mitch is your starter you HAVE TO have a good backup because he gets hurt too often. We are lucky we have I-Hart. Mitch is also vulnerable to āhack a Mitchā down the stretch in the playoffs and may become unplayable. If we make a big deal, we are going to have send salary out. Mitch may be the young guy that can help entice a team to make a deal.
Iāll give you one hint why heās piling up assists
Starts with R ends with J
They are unwatchable unless you laugh at them. Otherwise youāll start thinking about how much these guys get paid to know less than many fans.
If Hartenstein keeps playing this well for the rest of the season, I do think there’s some merit to the idea of doing what the Celtics did trading Rob Williams with Mitch, yeah… it would hurt because I love the guy, and let’s wait a bit to think about this to see if Hartenstein consistently performs at this level against top competition, but it’s an idea to keep in mind.
iHart v Embiid. More data, please. š
I wish it was possible to isolate how much having OG on the court instead of RJ is helping Brunson and Randle. When OG is standing in the corner, the defender is not right on him, but Iām sure heās more worried about OG than RJ.
Over the next few games I hope they slowly start trying to incorporate OG into the offense a little more or heās not going to be happy. He wanted to be used more on offense in Toronto. So he wonāt be happy with less here. Thatās on Randle, Brunson and Thibs. They have to get the balance right. We donāt need or even want to become dependent on Brunson and Randle giving us 30+ each every night.
Are we sure Ihart isn’t better than Mitch…
It’s difficult not to have the thought of trading Mitch in the back of your mind, but I don’t want to acknowledge it. Hard enough losing Quick.
Besides, a lot of possibilities over the next month – this is very clearly not the finished product. More to come by the deadline, probably; Leon is probably thinking they are one piece away, and he may be right.
If you want to keep iHart you pretty much have to hope that Mitch is indeed done for the season. It is clear that iHart has become a quality starter in this league. Like IQ, he’s not going to want to go back to being a backup, at least that’s the way I see it.
That 65-45 second half says it all. The second unit is the only issue. The Knicks gave a contract to Deuce because they view him as a backup PG, but it does not seem to be working right now. He cannot run the second unit. He is a worse version of what IQ was in 2022 when he was dribbling, dribbling and did not know what to do. IQ eventually figured it out. I hope Deuce does the same. The second unit is stuck in the mud at the moment. Unless they figure it out, Thibs will have to run the starters into the ground. He has no choice.
There were some stretches in there where the defense looked pretty ferocious. We really need to stay healthy because our depth is nonexistent but man does it make a huge difference having a bona fide defensive ace.
120 ORtg
105 DRtg
Duece can’t run an offense and never will
Flynn wasn’t good , but I think he gets a chance the minute he is able to play..maybe a change of scenery will help
I’m just not seeing it with Deuce, which hurts to say because I love his toughness and hoped he would develop his offensive game. But alas…
I watched some Malachi Flynn highlights and he definitely has some creation abilities, but he’s not the answer either.
ihart is hakeem olajuwon….
the offense has been about as suspected.. but it’s really the defense and OG has some to do with it… but like 90% of it is ihart.. probably the best two game performance i have seen in awhile… really a virtuoso performance even taking into account the entire nba…
dunno how long this lasts but enjoy it while it does…
Why did we give deuce that contract if he is a 3rd stringer?
Two things I hart can do that mitch can’t
Run offense at times through him- has pasing skills
Make free throws – not excellenct, about 70%, but not a total non factor like mitch. Don’t think hack of I hart would happen
how much of that duece contract is guaranteed? Rest of the season?
“…but man does it make a huge difference having a bona fide defensive ace.”
It was clear that he bothered DeRozan tremendously, same as last game with Anthony Edwards. I know Caruso is a great defender, but Randle went right through him. OG’s size/strength/wingspan/mobility make him pretty unique.
I get the drop off on offense for the 2nd unit, but Grimes, Hart, and Deuce are supposed to be plus defenders, no? They looked terrible on both sides of the ball. I hope thatās just growing pains.
FWIW Thibs used Hart instead of Devo to finish with the starters, basically all of Q4, so maybe thereās a swap there.
Deuce’s contract is very small, 3 for 12 million or something. Not a big issue. They will take a look at him as backup PG in January. They are not in a rush. After Mitch went down, the center position weakened significantly, and they don’t anticipate a deep run in the post season this year. IHart has played exceptionally well as a starter though.
With 10, 20 and 5 iHart joins Camby, someone named John Gianelli and of course Ewing as the only Knicks to accomplish that feat in a game. Ewing did it 12 times!
Yeah, OG and Hart finishing was a type of clamping down D we have not seen in a very-very long time. The Bulls didn’t know what to do. š
“…someone named John Gianelli”
Sadly I’m old enough to remember him…he sucked! But he did get a ring while playing some garbage time minutes on the ’72-’73 championship team.
Deuce could fit well next to Brogdon or Murray as a 3&D type. He shouldn’t be running the offense too much.
I’m thinking Sims gets his job back, not that it’d make a huge difference.
They need more practices together to gel.
Brogdon is a klutch sports client
Maybe we can convince the Wizards to trade us Tyus Jones?
More of a traditional PG than a shot creator and he’s starting for them, so he might not be happy to go back to being a bench player like he was in Memphis, but he’s been very good and the Wizards are going nowhere anyway, so it would make sense for them to sell high.
Spolestra is running circles around Darvin ham
Even lebron looks bad
With Duncan Robinson playing big minutes and helping now..I’m convinced he could make fornier a positive impact player
Quick with 26 points. We’re going to regret how we handled him. It wouldn’t hurt so badly if it had made sense.
You guys like basketball, so I highly recommend the Kings v Magic game. Good offense beating good defense is the best the NBA has to offer. These guys are actually earning their many points.
13 ties, 22 lean changes is fun.
Some guy named āQueenā tried to go through a Sabonis screen instead of around it. I think he may have died.
I was hoping Banchero would hit that last shot to force triple OT, wasnāt ready for this one to end.
Sorry to hijack the thread (Banchero v Monk shoot-out opener, kind of a thing). Sometimes I feel bad for you east coasters and Europeans out there, thereās some good after-hours basketball every now and then.
I was watching kings magic very entertaining
Watching this bench unit try to score reminds me of a thought exercise we used to do back in the Dave Berri days, which goes like this: what would happen if you assembled a team of the kind of low usage players who rack up high WP48 scores. All five guys are Tyson Chandler/Ronnie Brewer/Landry Fields type players. How would that team of WP48 All Stars fare in a real game?
Well, now we know the answer.
But it’s like throwing your wallet out the window and saying, “What’s the big deal? I only had $60 in it.”
They didn’t have to give Deuce any sort of contract. They just sort of quadrupled his salary for three years for…I guess the possibility that he would suddenly improve dramatically once they started playing him regularly? That’s the best theory I’ve got. “He might improve a lot once we start playing him regularly, so let’s sign him to a contract that will be cheap if he improve a lot.” It’s just shooting themselves in the foot for no reason.
I adore iHart. I’m very happy they have him on the team. I can easily see him re-signing for the max Early Bird, though. I think he likes playing here, and his girlfriend (wife?) is definitely a big city type of lady.
The Deuce contract feels like a “we might need salary filler in a trade” kind of move…
I really miss IQ and it was sad to see him in that gaudy Raptors uniform doing the IQ prance. Alas…
Whether Brogdamn or Typhus, I think the bench issue is a rather easy problem to solve at a modest cost. No Dijon Mustard, please!
If you signed iHart to a $15M AAV extension, the good news is that due to Mitch’s descending contract, the positional spending doesn’t go up all that much, maybe like $4-5M. And since they’d be making pretty much the same money, it would no longer be all that controversial to play them as indicated, meaning having iHart finish games to avoid hack-a-Mitch. And one of them (probably Mitch if iHart keeps it up, plus he might not be tradeable until summer 2025 anyway) can be future trade bait.
Seems like a no-brainer to extend him…