Knicks Morning News (2022.11.25)

  • Season of Giving –
    [] — Friday, November 25, 2022 5:59:48 AM

    Season of Giving

  • Blazers vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest – Hoops Hype
    [] — Friday, November 25, 2022 3:44:44 AM

    Blazers vs. Knicks: Start time, where to watch, what’s the latest  Hoops Hype

  • Fresh off strong trip, Knicks return home to face Blazers – Lyndy’s Sports Annuals
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 11:53:09 PM

    Fresh off strong trip, Knicks return home to face Blazers  Lyndy’s Sports Annuals

  • Portland Trail Blazers at New York Knicks: Game preview, time, TV channel, how to watch free live stream onli – OregonLive
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 9:44:00 PM

    Portland Trail Blazers at New York Knicks: Game preview, time, TV channel, how to watch free live stream onli  OregonLive

  • Knicks’ Tom Thibodeau not worried about Obi Toppin’s shooting slump – New York Post
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 8:45:00 PM

    Knicks’ Tom Thibodeau not worried about Obi Toppin’s shooting slump  New York Post

  • Tommy Beer: Knicks are listing Derrick Rose (Sore right toe) Cam Reddish (Sore right groin) and Mitc? – Hoops Hype
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 7:34:16 PM

    Tommy Beer: Knicks are listing Derrick Rose (Sore right toe) Cam Reddish (Sore right groin) and Mitc?  Hoops Hype

  • Knicks have a lot to figure out at home as they hope to continue momentum – New York Post
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 6:49:00 PM

    Knicks have a lot to figure out at home as they hope to continue momentum  New York Post Oklahoma City’s Centerpieces Click in Thunder’s Loss to the Knicks  Sports IllustratedPBT Podcast: Knicks start .500, where do they go from here?  NBC SportsThe Knicks are back at home after a successful 3-2 road trip  Amsterdam NewsKnicks’ Big Three finally do what fans have been waiting for in road win  Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Latest trade report proves Knicks should deeply regret Evan Fournier’s contract – Daily Knicks
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 5:00:00 PM

    Latest trade report proves Knicks should deeply regret Evan Fournier’s contract  Daily Knicks

  • This Jazz-Knicks Trade Features Lauri Markkanen – NBA Analysis Network
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 4:14:55 PM

    This Jazz-Knicks Trade Features Lauri Markkanen  NBA Analysis Network

  • ‘Belieber’ Jalen Brunson raises hopes for middling Knicks – Empire Sports Media
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 2:51:07 PM

    ‘Belieber’ Jalen Brunson raises hopes for middling Knicks  Empire Sports Media

  • Are the Knicks Using Isaiah Hartenstein the Right Way? – Sports Illustrated
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 12:10:14 PM

    Are the Knicks Using Isaiah Hartenstein the Right Way?  Sports Illustrated

  • The Nike Vapormax Flyknit 2021 Emerges In Knicks-Friendly Blue And Orange – Sneaker News
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 12:07:11 PM

    The Nike Vapormax Flyknit 2021 Emerges In Knicks-Friendly Blue And Orange  Sneaker News

  • Three Potential Trade Targets For New York Knicks To Consider – Sports Illustrated
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 12:00:00 PM

    Three Potential Trade Targets For New York Knicks To Consider  Sports Illustrated5 Derrick Rose, Immanuel Quickley trades Knicks could explore  Yahoo SportsWhy is Immanuel Quickley suddenly expendable for Knicks?  The Athletic3 Trade Targets for Knicks to Consider Before Rumor Mill Picks Up  Bleacher ReportThe Knicks are reportedly targeting a first-round pick to trade Immanuel Quickley  Posting and ToastingView Full Coverage on Google News

  • East Notes: Celtics, Robert Williams, Raptors, Knicks – Yardbarker
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 11:27:22 AM

    East Notes: Celtics, Robert Williams, Raptors, Knicks  Yardbarker

  • Tom Thibodeau, Tony Soprano, and the New York Knicks – Deadspin
    [] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 8:00:00 AM

    Tom Thibodeau, Tony Soprano, and the New York Knicks  Deadspin

  • 40 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.11.25)”

    Katz with the funny injury report 😀

    Fred Katz: Mitchell Robinson (sore right knee), Cam Reddish (sore right groin) and Derrick Rose (officially listed with a sore right toe, even though he has 10 toes and thus does not have a right one) are all listed as QUESTIONABLE for tomorrow’s game against the Blazers.

    I don’t know if there are any constraints in the Collective Bargaining Agreement but if the NBA were really serious about removing Patrick Beverley-type antics from the game, they should have made it way more than 3 games. And then not justifying it by his past behaviour. If he missed 15 games he or his teammates would make sure he never did it again.

    Problem is Jokic only got a 1-game suspension for blindsiding Markeiff (he was provoked, but still…)

    I would have given him 5 games, but 3 sends a message that if it happens again, he’ll be sitting a long time (maybe…)

    Tonight’s game should be fun, even if Dame is out.

    Reflections on Thibs as we near the 20-game mark:

    So we will be either 9-11, 10-10, or 11-9 at the 20 game mark, and 10-10 seems the most likely.

    If we are 9-11, the next 5-game stretch has us playing DET, MIL, DAL, CLE, and ATL. On paper, that looks like at best 2-3 with a good chance of 1-4. If the latter happens, then we’d be 10-15 and Thibs’ seat will heat up again, especially if there are some lackluster blowouts mixed in. Even 11-14 would not be great for him.

    OTOH, if we win these next 2 games and go 11-9, then somehow go 3-2 in that tough stretch w/4 games at home vs. good teams, we’d be at 14-11, with some softer games to follow. That would look very good for Thibs.

    I’m feeling a middling outcome, probably something like 12-13 after 25 games, good enough for Thibs to be safe, bad enough to frustrate the “treadmill of mediocrity” folks.

    Other reflections:
    Brunson is for real, and it is a massive feather in the cap of this otherwise middling FO to land him by hook or by crook while Cuban watched helplessy as it unfolded. Even if it costs us a pick for tampering, and the unseemly hiring of his dad, it was a coup.

    Randle is doing most of what doubters said he had to do to redeem himself from last year. There is still too much inconsistency on the defensive side of the ball to get all giddy about him, but most rational folks would have signed up for this level of play, given the contract conundrum. Hopefully he will continue to make strides, since trading him seems off the table for now.

    RJ has been the most frustrating Knick by far. He needs a lot more games like OKC before the trauma of watching his first 17 games gets assuaged. But last game was very nice to see, especially as it was the first one where our three-headed monster was in full force.

    Hart is frustrating, not because he’s playing badly, but because he isn’t living up to some of the hype generated by last year’s upward trajectory. He seems leveled out at backup level, and honestly, I’d rather see Sims play at this point.

    Obi, IQ, and Grimes have all disappointed in one way or another. This stretch should be telling, with Cam and Rose nursing injuries. All of them need to pick up the shooting.

    Cam is probably a trade asset at this point. That’s good, right?

    Mitch. Sigh.

    Sims is really fun when he isn’t doing something stupid.

    More Deuce, please!

    “This is why bringing up Bones et al. in the context of the 19th isn’t “cherry picking.”

    No matter how many times you say it, it isn’ true.”

    i cannot believe the The Incineration part 2 has to be explained yet again…

    the context is not just ‘future value’… altho that was very clearly not maintained…. the context is ‘how does it help this team’…. and clearly they thought that NOBODY else past that slot could help this team was VERY CLEARLY wrong that they chose a random… but worse pick… far into the future instead of making the pick for an actual good player.. they thought deuce mcbride and jericho sims were better than bones hyland… ayo dosunmu.. josh christopher… cam thomas… jeremiah robinson earl… herb jones…. kessler edwards…. charles bassey… and a handful of other useful names that are certainly better than what we chose to roster…. there are a lot of cherries to pick from….

    the standard of ‘an average pick’ only exists if their draft strategy was to pick names out of a hat… which even for the front office apologists i hope to god you give them a little bit more credit than that… they have every ability to make a judgement on every player so every good player they passed up in which they ACTIVELY traded out of… is FAIR GAME… and it looks EVEN WORSE when the quantity and quality of those names is so unusually strong compared to past drafts…

    the only justification is if you have this really narrow view of ‘we must trade for a really big star’…. which again… is a very narrow strategy to begin with but also something they’ve executed terribly at… you corner yourself into a situation where if you make ANY picks is wrong(why did we even pick quentin grimes or deuce if we wanted to just trade them for a star?) but the fact that you DON’T EVEN trade for a star when the opportunity presents itself also COMPOUNDS that mistake…. when you take shit value for the express purpose to trade for a star… and all of a sudden you misjudged how many picks it would take or for whatever reason don’t do the deal… you’re now stuck with shit picks and wasted roster slots…

    and that’s the problem with narrow strategies… you need to thread the needle in order to be perfectly right.. which was what the 2020 nba season was…. but the chickens eventually come home to roost and that’s exactly what every move since has manifested….

    it’s not just ‘Incinerated’ because it was just a normal bad move… it was a terrible move because it signaled a narrow and terrible strategy… in which was even badly executed…. the proof is in the pudding….

    Just to make things clear, my problem with Thibs is not the “treadmill of mediocrity”. I think he plays an ancient game, we don’t have a modern offense, or defense for that matter. And the roster is young and suited for a modern game, with the exception of our traditional Cs (Mitch and Sims), but even them would probably be great in a modern system on defense, they’re both athletically gifted.
    I like Thibs, the guy, and i think he’s a good coach for specific situations. We’re just not one of those.

    About Hart

    Stefan Bondy: Isaiah Hartenstein revealed he’s been dealing with an inflamed Achilles. It’s an injury he came into the season with and he said he still can’t move like he wants to.

    1. I don’t think Hart is being used to his full capabilities. He’s a pretty nifty passer for a C. I think we should be running some plays through him. Maybe Thibs should look at his old Noah playbook.

    2. If Thibs loses the locker room, he should get replaced. If the team is playing hard but losing to teams with more talent and they fire him anyway because someone has to take the blame, then I’m going to stop my mild defense of Rose. That would be idiotic.

    3. Thank God I didn’t read the rest of yesterday’s thread if we are still debating making picks vs. rolling them out vs. trading down. Each makes sense at different times. Everyone on planet earth knows the strategy in NY. The data on how and when to rebuild is out there. It’s no great mystery. It depends on the city, age of players, whether the team has upside, picks etc…

    4. Basketball goes through style phases. It’s kind of like in corporate America. If one company makes some kind of acquisition that seems to be working, everyone else jumps on the bandwagon and most of them fail. What we have now in basketball is more skilled players than years ago. That gives teams more options for how to construct a successful offense and defense. What the Knicks primarily lack is outside shooting skills, not a modern offense. If they had plenty of shooters the offense they would be running look different in the same we no longer run it through Randle because we have Brunson.

    Not a doctor but inflamed achilles means you play regardless and foot soreness lands you in a walking boot. And being ill lets you play 30 minutes of putrid shooting a game. Luckily I trust the Dolan PR machine completely.

    5. I should add one more thing. I wouldn’t trade ANY of our young players for picks unless the deal was simply too good to resist. I’m open to trading Rose and attaching the pick proceeds from a Rose trade to help move Fournier, but I’d be looking to re-sign players like Cam, Quick, and Obi to hopefully team friendly contracts. You need salary to trade for a star. As long as they are not on bad contracts, they can be combined with picks for an upgrade. Ainge took on Markkenan and signed Sexton. Someone else will take Cam, Quick, and/or Obi as long as they aren’t overpaid. We have time to see what that pay should be.

    happy shopping day…

    is there a single day left on the calender that hasn’t been marketed…

    home alone with dog…percolating, on some god’s breath, mother’s milk and key lime jack…

    probability at exiting the home today, other than for going out on poop patrol, very minimal…

    Don’t watch college ball so don’t pay much attention to players there, but a fun early breakdown of potential picks by Sam Vicenie in The Athletic. Seems the takeaway is that there’s a ton of fluidity at the moment, but also that there’s a ton of interesting options we just don’t know enough about. Good argument for taking our chances this coming draft:

    ‘Once you get outside of the top 10 or so on this list, the 2023 draft is wide open, with plenty of room for underrated freshmen and upper-class risers to crash the party. There is so much up in the air that it’s truly difficult to slot them in any sort of genuine order by the second half of the first round. Last year at this point, 18 of the players I had ranked in the first round ended up getting drafted there, with six others ending up in the top-41 picks. This year, I would argue many more slots are up for grabs, and I think my confidence interval would be much wider on potential draft ranges.’

    And I’m thankful we all have the strength to persevere this season.

    And the next, and the next, and the next… 😛

    Damn, Cyber. That’s cold.

    I haven’t seen the 4th season of Atlanta yet. I think the third season was panned a little bit bc it’s a departure from the first two, but I thought it was brilliant. Reminded me of Faulkner.

    Arguably my favorite bit from the whole series: Paper Boi gets thrown into a Danish prison but it’s so pleasant he doesn’t want to leave when his friends bail him out.

    Geo- Warning! The next episode of Atlanta- “Teddy Perkins” is one of the most unsettling episodes of any tv series I’ve ever seen. And “Woods” is just one of the best period. Loved season two.

    Geo, the barbershop episode is one of the funniest things I’ve seen in a long time. And as Nicos says, the very next episode is a brilliant 180 turn from it.

    I don’t know where this team was against Wales but glad to see the US have shown up at the World Cup. (Non Weah department)

    Also, the lack of Reyna is baffling

    (The venn diagram of negative Knicks fans and negative USMNT fans is bigger than people realize)

    You can feel the goal coming from England

    But it was Pulisic that came closest, hitting the crossbar

    The US is playing great. England seems to be waiting for a mistake, and does nothing to push the pace.

    My English friends all think their team is terrible which is also hilarious

    That’s typical, here it’s the same. 😉

    Missing a World Cup will do that to fans

    Leaving our best player on the bench will too

    I am not a fan of berhalter

    they’re battling hard…don’t have a good finisher..feels like Kane is going to head one in here in a few…

    For Shaq Moore? I would be furious too. Although he was on a yellow I think.

    How Walker Zimmerman is our second best Center back is hard to imagine

    But great effort and great performance overall

    Good game, congrats. And i’m relieved USA had a good game against a strong side not named Portugal. 😉

    I was in the basement of Lucky Jacks in the East Village for that game we won against Portugal in 2002. Magical experience.

    I know the thread will roll over shortly, but just a follow-up on my position re: cherry picking…

    Any of the players that were available at #19 could have been drafted at #25 other than Kai Jones, Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson, Isaiah Jackson, Usman Garuba, or Josh Christopher could have been drafted at #25. Same for all the players drafted between #26 and #33…all but those guys could have been drafted at the picks we had.

    The FO could have stayed pat at #19 and 21 and drafted Grimes and McBride in some order, then drafted Rokas at #32 and Sims at #58. There wouldn’t have been a peep about trading out. Instead, there would have been an outcry about how we passed over Bones, Ayo, or whoever.

    Or alternatively, they could have made the deals they made, drafted Bones at #25, Herb at #34, and Ayo at #36, and then we’d have all the cherry-picked players instead of the ones we have.

    Trade-out or no trade-out, there was a path to draft any player the FO wanted to, other than the six I listed above.

    So for me, if there should be any outrage, it should be about who we drafted at the spots we actually did draft, not what trades we made.

    Even going back a year:

    We could have drafted Hali instead of Obi, like most here wanted. HUGE MISS!

    We could have drafted Bane instead of IQ, as most here wanted. A miss, but Bane is possibly closer to his ceiling on O than IQ, and IQ is the better defender by far.

    Anyway, we could have had Hali, Bane, Bones, Herb, Ayo and Sims as our young core, regardless of whether we traded out of #19 or not. So the outrage should be about our draft evaluators, not the pick swap that slightly devalued the pick we swapped out of, but not as much as if we picked any of the guys picked from #19 to #24.

    So for me, if there should be any outrage, it should be about who we drafted at the spots we actually did draft, not what trades we made.

    The “outrage” is because they suck at the draft overall. They do weird draft pick punts, then routinely fail to miss obvious talent when it is available. And that’s not cherry picking, because just about everybody on this board wanted Haliburton and Bane instead of Toppin and Quickley.

    We have routinely seen the argument made here that they punted these picks because they didn’t want the salaries on the books. Okay, fine. They then used those precious cap space savings on Evan Fournier. Then they used some more of it on Kemba Walker. They’re just not good at any of this.

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