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Knicks Morning News (2022.11.24)

  • The Knicks are back at home after a successful 3-2 road trip – Amsterdam News
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 12:00:00 AM

    The Knicks are back at home after a successful 3-2 road trip  Amsterdam News

  • Knicks veterans Rose and Fournier may be solid pieces for other teams – Amsterdam News
    [news.google.com] — Thursday, November 24, 2022 12:00:00 AM

    Knicks veterans Rose and Fournier may be solid pieces for other teams  Amsterdam News

  • Wassup in Westchester: W-Knicks fall on a buzzer-beater – Posting and Toasting
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 10:35:40 PM

    Wassup in Westchester: W-Knicks fall on a buzzer-beater  Posting and Toasting

  • Isiah Thomas explains how Stephon Marbury’s affair with an intern was the reason he was charged with a lawsuit during his time with the New York Knicks – Basketball Network
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 7:56:13 PM

    Isiah Thomas explains how Stephon Marbury’s affair with an intern was the reason he was charged with a lawsuit during his time with the New York Knicks  Basketball Network

  • Knicks injury update: Reddish, Robinson, Rose practice in limited capacity; Hartenstein has inflamed Achilles – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 7:54:45 PM

    Knicks injury update: Reddish, Robinson, Rose practice in limited capacity; Hartenstein has inflamed Achilles  Empire Sports Media

  • Centers of Attention: Knicks suddenly have a big man logjam – Empire Sports Media
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 7:05:33 PM

    Centers of Attention: Knicks suddenly have a big man logjam  Empire Sports Media

  • This Bulls-Knicks Trade Features Zach LaVine – NBA Analysis Network
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 6:36:52 PM

    This Bulls-Knicks Trade Features Zach LaVine  NBA Analysis Network

  • Knicks President Leon Rose should be thankful for Thibodeau, Brunson – New York Daily News
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 6:33:23 PM

    Knicks President Leon Rose should be thankful for Thibodeau, Brunson  New York Daily News

  • Obi Toppin gives RJ Barrett shooting tips, Jalen Brunson’s superb floater, Knicks’ defense and more – The Athletic
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 6:04:03 PM

    Obi Toppin gives RJ Barrett shooting tips, Jalen Brunson’s superb floater, Knicks’ defense and more  The Athletic

  • Knicks’ Isaiah Hartenstein speaks upon difficulties with role – New York Daily News
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 4:27:17 PM

    Knicks’ Isaiah Hartenstein speaks upon difficulties with role  New York Daily News

  • ‘Crown the King!’: Former Knick Assesses Current Team’s Big Issue – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 4:20:03 PM

    ‘Crown the King!’: Former Knick Assesses Current Team’s Big Issue  Sports IllustratedNBA Eastern Conference Standings Nov. 22: Knicks sit in play-in spot at No. 8  Daily KnicksChanning Frye on Knicks key to avoid ‘House of the Dragon’ story  ClutchPointsFive best options if the Knicks opt to fire Tom Thibodeau in 2022-23  Franchise SportsView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Should Tom Thibodeau change the Knicks starting 5? – New York Post
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 2:18:00 PM

    Should Tom Thibodeau change the Knicks starting 5?  New York Post

  • Immanuel Quickley Trade: What Do Knicks Want? – Sports Illustrated
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 2:15:15 PM

    Immanuel Quickley Trade: What Do Knicks Want?  Sports IllustratedThe Knicks are reportedly targeting a first-round pick to trade Immanuel Quickley  Posting and Toasting3 Trade Targets for Knicks to Consider Before Rumor Mill Picks Up  Bleacher ReportWhy is Immanuel Quickley suddenly expendable for Knicks?  The Athletic3 moves Knicks can make to improve chances of making the playoffs  Daily KnicksView Full Coverage on Google News

  • Knicks’ Derrick Rose: Does ‘most’ of practice Wednesday – CBS Sports
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 1:13:09 PM

    Knicks’ Derrick Rose: Does ‘most’ of practice Wednesday  CBS Sports

  • Brunson’s 34 points lifts Knicks to 129-119 win over Thunder ? Shawnee News-Star – Shawnee News-Star
    [news.google.com] — Wednesday, November 23, 2022 9:28:51 AM

    Brunson’s 34 points lifts Knicks to 129-119 win over Thunder ? Shawnee News-Star  Shawnee News-Star

  • 51 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.11.24)”

    Happy Thanksgiving! I am thankful for having this blog, and you all, to help me endure the curse (Knicks) of my life! 😀

    @geo,

    I just started the last season of Atlanta. “The Most Atlanta” is in fact the most Atlanta and a whole lot of fun.

    “You are literally the only person I have ever heard posit that the “salary commitment” is some kind of risk in the context of draft picks.”

    There is one other person. Sam Presti

    It’s all the same thing.

    If you draft a player you think doesn’t fit what you want and is not good enough to justify his salary you are making a bad deal. And in the case of a draft pick it usually winds up being for the duration of the contract because teams don’t want to give up on their 19 year old draft picks.

    I’d way rather have a pick in the future than make what I think is a bad pick now. Debates about getting equal value back are fine. Debates about the merits of the players available are fine. But imo it’s foolish to draft players you don’t think are good enough to warrant what you are going to pay them if you can simply defer the pick to a later date and a potentially better draft.

    Happy Thanksgiving Everybody!

    I am thankful for Team Optimist for having the time and energy to keep making the same arguments over and over and over, which keeps the blog readable for me.

    Strat, in theory you are correct. Our very own favourite Toney Douglas acquisition supports this. But not in the context of the first 20-25 players, where untapped potential is the rationale for scouting departments If a team punts a draft pick into the future, it means (a)their scouting department better be able to take the flack if ANY subsequent pick delivers value above his salary commitment; or (b) their GM better quickly deliver a trade, etc for the subsequent pick that justifies the punt. The 19th pick is in the former category; the flips to land Brunson are in the latter.

    Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving everyone. Having turkey in London honouring my roots. But tomorrow’s World Cup game may test them…

    Wow, happy to see my personal favorite theme song ranked all the way up at #3! Camp-jazz fusion masterpiece by Quincy J gets the respect it deserves. (This may be the first RS list ever I have no beef with, but I really only had one horse in the race:)

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone, I am legitimately, weirdly grateful for this place.

    “If a team punts a draft pick into the future, it means (a)their scouting department better be able to take the flack if ANY subsequent pick delivers value above his salary commitment”

    Thank you. This is why bringing up Bones et al. in the context of the 19th isn’t “cherry picking.” Our front office didn’t pick someone over him and get it wrong–that happens and should be evaluated based on the informational available at the time.

    They straight up said “there is no one here worth picking.” That turned out to be not only wrong, but *unusually* wrong when it comes to the expected value of the 19th pick. It was an anomalously good 19th pick, there were plenty of good players available.

    It seems obvious that Leon Rose goes into a draft with a very short list of players that he likes, and then if those players are off the board, he punts the pick. This is a completely rockheaded approach to the draft and my #1 criticism of Leon Rose. Comparing Leon Rose’s valuation of draft picks to Sam Presti’s seems pretty silly here, given that Presti values draft picks enough to have accumulated the most giant stash of them in the history of the NBA.

    I like the TV theme song list overall. The Cosby Show, Barney Miller, and The Beverly Hillbillies would be on my list.

    Twin Peaks and X-Files seem low to me, and how come CSI:NY didn’t make the list? 😮

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

    Today just feels like a good day. Maybe it’s because I can actually get some rest today lol..but today still feels good.

    Be safe and be good

    First, Happy Thanksgiving to all Knickerbloggers! I hope that you all are enjoying a feast today with your friends and family.

    It seems obvious that Leon Rose goes into a draft with a very short list of players that he likes, and then if those players are off the board, he punts the pick.

    I don’t think that’s it. I think roster spots is the issue. A team with depth has no roster space. It’s why I think the Knicks are going to trade a bunch of players and picks for a star. It’s going to have to happen.

    We have several no-hopers at the end of our bench, so if it’s for roster space, that’s even dumber.

    It seems obvious that Leon Rose goes into a draft with a very short list of players that he likes, and then if those players are off the board, he punts the pick.

    And it’s not just that. His list is based on who he thinks can crack the rotation on day 1. If you could help the team two years down the line, you don’t make the list.

    And even with that stupid strategy, he’s bad at executing it!! We’re in year 3 of Obi, who was supposed to be ready to play. And he failed to identify guys at 19 who were ready to play.

    I’m afraid to click on that link bc if the theme song to Buffy the Vampire Slayer is not there it’s gonna ruin my day.

    i will not post about how much i hate holidays…i will not post about how much i hate holidays…i will not post about how much i hate holidays…i will not post about how much i hate holidays…

    oops, too late…

    This is why bringing up Bones et al. in the context of the 19th isn’t “cherry picking.”

    No matter how many times you say it, it isn’ true.

    It’s not an optimal strategy, but there is a probability calculation at play.

    What is the probability that a good draft evaluator will make a pick at #19 that will be worth more than the draft pick itself was before the draft? In that draft, I would guess that it was probably 20-30%. Meaning today, the chances that if you had the player, that a team picking at #19 in the future draft would trade you that, say, 2023 #19 pick for the player you picked is well less than 50%. So the odds are that you will lose value by making the pick. So by trading out, if you get equal value, you are preserving 100% of the future value of the pick, not flipping a coin that might lose you all of that value.

    The issue with the trade-out is that you got a conditional pick with a close-to 50% chance, give or take, that it would convey as a pick lower than #19. Obviously the strength of draft matters, but beyond that, it wasn’t a good value play even if all drafts were equally deep.

    Even so, it was still valuable enough to be used in a trade twice, for as much or more value than any of the guys picked from 19-24. If you add in the guys from 26-30, being generous, you have at best a 3 in 11 chance that the player you picked would have been more desireable than the pick itself in a subsequent transaction.

    So the Bones Hyland scenario is about as cherry-picked as you could possibly get. If anything, you would have to factor in the draft boards of all 29 other teams, and who they had ranked at #19. Clearly the Hornets had Kai Jones ranked there. Clearly ATL had Jalen Johnson ranked higher than Hyland. Clearly the Pacers had Isaiah Jackson ranked higher than him. Etc., etc., until you get to DEN, and all we know is that Hyland was no lower than #26 on their draft board. If that’s not evidence of cherry-picking, I don’t know what is.

    And again, I’m not defending the strategy per se, just mitigating the degree of the mistake. Now, if you want to argue that it was a precursor to a mindset that would (ahem, did) lead to a “death by 1,000 cuts” scenario, that’s totally fair. But in a vacuum, I object to the premise that it is always better for a team in our position to make the pick rather than trade out of it, assuming you get market value for it (which I totally agree should have been higher that that conditional CHA pick.)

    The Knicks shouldn’t draft anyone because it’s impossible to draft anyone good.

    That is how I see it also.

    🙂

    I never watched the OC but I always loved that theme song

    Not sure what to think of the theme song list, so many shows predate me or I just don’t watch them.

    Guess I’d have stumped for Futurama, Adventure Time, Neon Genesis Evangelion to be included.

    “The Knicks shouldn’t draft anyone because it’s impossible to draft anyone good.

    That is how I see it also.

    🙂”

    Might have been funnier if they didn’t draft four players in that particular draft, 3 who played significant minutes last game!

    Thanks, EB. Being ranked at 75 is fine. Buffy is perpetually underrated anyway. I just couldn’t handle an omission.

    It’s not an optimal strategy, but there is a probability calculation at play.

    What is the probability that a good draft evaluator will make a pick at #19 that will be worth more than the draft pick itself was before the draft? In that draft, I would guess that it was probably 20-30%. Meaning today, the chances that if you had the player, that a team picking at #19 in the future draft would trade you that, say, 2023 #19 pick for the player you picked is well less than 50%. So the odds are that you will lose value by making the pick. So by trading out, if you get equal value, you are preserving 100% of the future value of the pick, not flipping a coin that might lose you all of that value.

    You don’t preserve the value of the pick when you trade it for one that is heavily protected.

    The value in a future first is its potential. Eliminating most of that potential drains its value.

    So yes, there is a calculation at play. But it’s based on 2 plus 2 equals 7.

    If Charlotte had given us a top 8 protected pick along with two 2nds, then the math would have worked.

    Leon’s not playing a high-level probability game that no other GM before him ever figured out. He’s just punting when it makes more sense to go for it because he’s a limited GM.

    I don’t mind cycling picks, but that just wasn’t a good one to move.

    Protections were too high and the remaining talent pool was too deep.

    Happy Thanksgiving everybody! I hope someone is archiving these threads for the inevitable 30 for 30 on the 19th pick controversy.

    Happy Thanksgiving to you all. Hoping you all eat well and have loved ones to share the day with… if that’s your thing.

    I’m at my in-laws place today – almost didn’t make it: my stepson caught Covid a few days ago and I had to hang back to look after him while my wife went ahead to her moms Tuesday to help cook. I had been around him bc I took him to urgent care, and thankfully I tested negative Tuesday and this morning or else I would’ve had to stay home. He’s doing a lot better, and he still has to isolate until Saturday (and test negative). Felt a lil bad for leaving him solo even though he’s 19. My wife insisted he’ll be fine, plus bonus daughter will bring him food later tonight. BTW the wife has to steer clear of him and the house bc she’s pregnant, so we may stay out in the IE til Saturday.

    EB exactly.

    Hubert, don’t think it has to be that sweet of a return but otherwise agree.

    Happy Thanksgiving…

    Good list…nice to see Sanford &son up there…that would be my #1….I didnt see Beverly hillbillies on there…I may have missed it…that should be..if it’s not…

    Happy Thanksgiving, all.

    +1 on Theme from Taxi needing to rate higher, Geo.

    Hope everyone is getting their best Drunk Uncle on, or surviving same.

    Go Knicks!

    Happy Thanksgiving to all. Though the Beverly Hillbillies did not make the list the song got a shout out in the Green Acres listing. IIRC the singer/songwriter was the same for both.

    Happy Thanksgiving kbers!

    Most Favourite theme of all times for me JBarry’s Persuaders
    I Could listen to it on repeat till the knicks get a chip mean. Till forever!!!

    Sidebar: pointing out that the Giants haven’t scored an offensive touchdown on thanksgiving since the Dodgers were still in Brooklyn is a tad misleading. The Gmen play on this day, what, once every 8 to 10 years or so???

    Happy Thanksgiving everyone

    I looked at the theme song list. It’s amazing how many shows I’ve never watched.

    hmmm..just went through list again…no Baretta theme song…calls into question the validity of that list…

    Happy Thanksgiving, folks.
    I’m looking forward to what Thibs will come up with on Friday… And I’m thankful we all have the strength to persevere this season.

    I have never cared about the TV show, but for my money, the original theme from Doctor Who on BBC is the GOAT theme song. I know the list doesn’t include non-American shows, but that one wins for me.

    It’s SO far ahead of its time, and the way it was put together is mindblowing. It was written by a composer named Ron Grainer, and recorded by the legendary Delia Derbyshire, who was a pioneering electronic musician in the pre-synthesizer era. It’s a cool melody but the real genius work here was done by Delia Derbyshire, who used ingenious recording methods to create the theme’s otherworldly magic.

    The sounds in the Doctor Who theme sound very much like sounds you’d expect to hear from modern synthesizers, but Delia Derbyshire created those sounds entirely with tape loops and splicing, in an early primitive version of what we today call “sampling.” There are no musicians and no synthesizers in use on the song, those are all tape edits.

    The big swooping synthesizer-sounding lead sound? That’s an oscilloscope, a tone generator. She would record each “note” of the oscilloscope, then edit a performance out of it with razor blade and tape. The swooping portamento notes were achieved by her recording herself turning the dial of the oscilloscope to generate the tone. All of the sounds in the recording were achieved this way. Most of them are found sounds that are treated to sound like musical instruments and not actual musical instruments.

    I’m probably not doing a great job of describing it, but it’s astonishing what she was able to do. Many electronic musicians, particularly British ones, have cited this piece of music as a huge influence. It still sounds like it’s from the future, and it must have fried peoples’ minds in 1963. I’ve heard people say they were terrified of it when they heard it for the first time back then.

    The actual song is here. Keep in mind this is 1963!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75V4ClJZME4

    Super interesting three minute video in which she describes her methods:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkIEkLww3lg

    Wow, that is truly amazing, JK. Her work back then looks a lot like stop motion films… lots of hours, lots of passion and lots of patience. 😉

    One of her first works, and most widely known, was her 1963 electronic realisation of a score by Ron Grainer for the theme of the Doctor Who series, one of the first television themes to be created and produced entirely with electronics.
    When Grainer heard it, he was so amazed by her arrangement of his theme that he asked: “Did I really write this?”, to which Derbyshire replied: “Most of it”.

    And in one of the videos, she is highly praised by one of my favorite musicians (Adrian Utley).

    And I’m thankful we all have the strength to persevere this season.

    And the next, and the next, and the next… 😛

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