[news.google.com] — Monday, November 14, 2022 5:41:00 AM
New York Knicks’ Julius Randle Goes for One-of-One Mercedes-Benz G 550 4×4? Cabriolet autoevolution
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 11:42:02 PM
Giants Edge Out the Texans, Knicks Defense No-Shows at the Garden, Plus Jordan Raanan on Big Blue’s Rebuild The Ringer
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 7:42:01 PM
Aussie star’s historic 54-year NBA first news.com.au
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 7:35:55 PM
Knicks’ Immanuel Quickley: Big second half in loss CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 7:35:00 PM
Tom Thibodeau lacking answers as superstars Knicks missed on still haunt them New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 7:28:00 PM
Knicks’ Cam Reddish: Huge performance Sunday CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 7:16:00 PM
East Notes: Knicks, Heat, Omer Yurtseven, Magic Yardbarker
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 4:21:50 PM
Thunder’s Josh Giddey ties Wilt Chamberlain’s record with triple-double versus Knicks at Madison Square Garden CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 3:48:45 PM
Oklahoma City Thunder vs New York Knicks Nov 13, 2022 Game Summary NBA.comKnicks vs. Thunder: How & Who To Watch on Sunday Sports IllustratedOKC Thunder has record-setting win against New York Knicks Oklahoman.comNew York Knicks vs. Oklahoma City Thunder odds, tips and betting trends | November 13 USA TODAY Sportsbook WireNBA Fans Destroy New York Knicks For Allowing 145 Points Against Oklahoma City Thunder YardbarkerView Full Coverage on Google News
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 3:27:15 PM
Do the Knicks have a Julius Randle problem? AMNY
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 3:00:22 PM
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander drops 37 points at MSG, Knicks get booed off the court in 145-135 loss to OKC The Denver Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 2:37:41 PM
Blunder vs. the Thunder: Knicks’ Historic 1st Quarter Struck Down Sports IllustratedOklahoma City Thunder vs New York Knicks Nov 13, 2022 Game Summary NBA.comKnicks 145, Thunder 135: Fire Tom Thibodeau Posting and ToastingKnicks vs. Thunder: How to watch NBA online, TV channel, live stream info, game time CBS SportsKnicks to get look at potential trade target Shai Gilgeous-Alexander versus Thunder New York Post View Full Coverage on Google News
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 1:50:08 PM
Thunder Guard Tre Mann Leaves vs. Knicks, Won’t Return NESN
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 10:47:55 AM
Knicks Injury Update: Mitchell Robinson begins non-contact drills Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Sunday, November 13, 2022 8:23:00 AM
NBA Rumors: New York Knicks receiving calls regarding former first-rounder Sportskeeda
132 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2022.11.14)”
How can a team beat his all-time record for 1st quarter’s points and then lose in a (mostly) non-competitive way?
By giving up 145 points on 62.5% shooting (!!) including 54.8% on threes (!!) to one of the worse shooting team in the league (21st in FG% at 46.4% and 29th on 3FG% at 31.5% before this game).
And this was OKC 5th consecutive win at MSG (!!!). Yes, the perennial tankers Thunder has kicked our butt, in our building, for 5 consecutive years, unbelievable.
This team has no identity, no “hunger”, no hustle and the current defensive scheme has run its course or it’s unusable with this group of players.
As Iserp wrote in the game-thread it’s time to put players on man-to-man defense, letting them be better or be ashamed, and maybe to mix some zone here and there.
Right now we’re always a rotation too late and our big men, all average to above average rim protectors (yes, even Hart) are sucked out of position and forced to let highways to the rim.
Luckily our head coach is renowned for his ability to motivate players and for his defensive genius, so there’s nothing to worry about…
The Good
Cam Reddish (26 pts, 4 STL), and IQ (24 pts, 5 AST, 3 STL) were the best players on the team and the only ones that tried to do something on defense.
Jericho did what he can do (8 pts, 8 REB) and had the best plus/minus of the team at plus-9.
The Bad
Randle has a nice line too (25 pts, 10 REB) but at least 5 of his points came in full garbage and shared with Barrett the “worst defender of the game” honor.
Hart had a nice start then fade (14 pts, 8 REB in 23 min but 2 TOs), both he and Obi (10 pts, 2-3 3FG but 3 dumb TOs) were worse than their line.
Rose showed something… and then he didn’t.
The Ugly
RJ Barrett had the worst game you can have after a 30-points one.
I don’t know if he partied too much, if he had a fever or if there was other excuses, but he was a disaster and deserved the bench.
His defensive performance made the pair with Randle’s.
Fournier. 20 minutes (including the whole 4th) of nothing. I know him well, he’s not that bad. He can’t be that bad. He needs to be traded.
Thibs… Yes, this team lacks good or outstanding defenders, but some of the average ones lack focus (Randle, RJ) and by the way if having droves of good defender is a must to build a good defense then I can coach in the NBA too, you don’t need a supposed Defensive Genius…
The Strange
Brunson was the usual problem on defense but he wasn’t alone on that and has a surprisingly good stat line (17 pts, 7-1 AST/TO, 3 STL). I don’t fully get his benching.
The Situational
Poor Grimes… His usage and Thibs’ comment on him are becoming a riddle or a joke, I let you decide.
https://twitter.com/iqfor3/status/1591989467141013505?s=46&t=DKIEM42rf3_vLK4NKO6IQw
Some clips of Randle playing *defense*
Thanks for the recap Max. I didn’t see the game m, but from reading the recaps and the comments it seems that the players who didn’t get their expected minutes weren’t doing enough on defense. Is that a fair take on my part?
It is maddening that everyone seems to agree this FO will never pivot to a tank. This squad is going nowhere, regardless of coach, and this draft is incredible. But sure, keep chasing that 9 seed, Leon. I’m sure it will work better for you than it has for all your predecessors.
Randle wasn’t doing anything on defense but was on the floor, Obi too, Fournier played all the 4th quarter despite his defense.
At the same time Barrett was off in every aspect of the game, not only defense, but Brunson was “good” on offense and tried on D, while Hart had his moments so…
I really don’t know, but I don’t understand a lot of Thibs’ decisions these days…
I am sort of caught between 3 potential realities, which are far from mutually exclusive:
1) We don’t play hard enough on defense on many possessions
2) We are lousy defenders no matter how hard we try
3) Even when we play good defense, teams just don’t seem miss against us
I’m going through a bit of introspection.
One of things I learned from gambling over the decades is that I can occasionally come up with very sound insights, but as I see some weaknesses and look for solutions, there is a tendency for my mind to drift away from those sound principles and end up in a worse place than where I started.
To avoid that, in the past I tried to make my process more systematic. I thought “If my insights are coded, there will be no drift”. But systematic thinking is too stifling. It prevents you from finding the exceptions to the rules, using intuition and experience before you have a large enough sample etc..
So back I go.
The thing I find interesting is that the same thing seems to have happened in my basketball analysis. I can’t count how many times I’ve pounded the table saying we should focus on defense first, try to accumulate role players that are defenders that can do at least one good thing on offense (but the more the better), and the scoring should come from #1 and #2 options when we can draft, trade, or sign one. That has been one of my biggest things about how to rebuild. Defense first.
Yet over the last couple of years as the team looked for solutions to the problems that were exposed in the Atlanta playoff series and we were adding role players that were primarily offense oriented players, nothing really clicked for me. I may have whined that we were trading good defense for mediocre offense, but it didn’t really sink in that we were making a serious error in direction.
I guess I’m just talking out loud here. I’m less interested in the Knicks defense at this moment than understanding how our minds work (or at least mine) and how we can drift away from thinking clearly about something we already know over time.
Is there a name for that kind of thing?
It has looked like the Knicks are starting to tune Thibs out, particularly Randle and RJ. For Thibs to say about RJ’s benching “We were just looking for some life out there” is pretty telling. And if Obi had played a bit better, Randle might have stayed glued to the bench too. Fournier is a shell of himself. Rose is shortarming everything.
Larry Bird always used to say that after 3-4 years, players start tuning out the typical coach anyway. It seems like that is starting to happen.
If it is, how much of it is because Thibs is asking them to do things that they aren’t capable of doing, and that they are done trying, how much of it is because Randle and RJ are entitled, and how much is because Thibs’ continual bellowing is just too annoying to stomach year after year?
“Poor Grimes… His usage and Thibs’ comment on him are becoming a riddle or a joke, I let you decide.”
Grimes missed almost the entire camp and was in and out of practice with a recurring injury. This is clearly not about Thibs’s preferences or lineups. It’s about bringing Grimes back from injury slowly until he’s actually in basketball shape (which he is not) and without causing a setback to his foot. Assuming all goes well, in 2-4 weeks he’ll be playing a lot more minutes and may even be starting and closing. The timing depends on his foot and how long it takes him to get in basketball shape and his shot sharp.
I know you hate Thibs, but come on. He’s 100% doing the right thing.
Im sure there’s a name for it , Strat, but it’s probably buried in experimental psychology literature somewhere and I don’t know what it is.
Thibs is 100% doing the right thing. Mmmmmm……
About Grimes? Sure
Not that it matters all that much given the general tire fire nature of the roster, but a player who isn’t in basketball shape shouldn’t be playing in association basketball games.
This is simply unfair.
Grimes’ management has been questioned by Katz on the Athletic, Macri in his newsletter and Begley.
I think it’s perfectly fair to have questions about his usage, without the need to be call haters.
We all know he’s rusty and his building into shape, but I’m not the only one surprised by Thibs’ words and management.
And I don’t hate Thibs, I was one of the few here that wrote that he deserved his COTY over Monty, because he made a bunch of scrubs play like demons that never give up in a game.
If a player can only play 5-10 minutes, either because his joints, tendons, and ligaments won’t hold up or because he’s not in basketball shape, he’s not ready to play at all.
Other teams don’t do things this way, and they sure as shit don’t do them for bench players like QG.
Maybe it’s unfair, but I see this as in much the same key as incinerating the 18th pick in the draft or attaching a lottery pick to get rid of a guy you signed on a buyout or generally pretending that a 37 win team is too good to accommodate first round draft picks. No other team does this shit and seeing the Knicks continue to do it just gets real old.
Thibs has always been the wrong coach for this situation, so as to being a hater or not, whatever. But specifically about Grimes, it’s pretty clear to me that they are managing his foot injury so that there is not a setback. It’s annoying that they are not putting out a specific diagnosis e.g. inflammation of the X tendon/ligament, or PF, or whatever. But I have no issue with the way they are trying to work him back in.
Someone on Twitter raised a good point when I mentioned tanking: what is the way this team could actively try to tank, anyway? Leon built a roster with a reasonably high floor and a ceiling that is about 2 inches above that floor. Short of giving Brunson the SGA treatment with a phantom injury 2/3 of the way through the season, what can be done to ensure the team loses lots of games? Other than, I guess, continuing to force feed minutes to Julius and RJ and Fournier?
I wanted to do the sensible thing and wait until 20 games, but I have a big enough sample size for what I thought were the 2 keys to the season–RJ making the leap and Julius giving a shit.
So now I have to hope RJ makes the year 5 leap and Julius spends another off-season addressing his”issues”. Or pray something comes out that forces Dolan to sell the team.
Yesterday’s game and the Nets game were similar in that you had 2 teams doing pretty much whatever they wanted on offense, and they looked they were having a whole bunch of fun completely shredding our defense. Lots of smiles and giggles all around.
That’s what bothered me most about those 2 games – the total lack of resistance on our part. If we lose a game 98-90 because our shots just aren’t falling, ok, I’ll live with that. But to get completely embarrassed by 2 mediocre teams is really hard to take.
I would have been one of the loudest boo-ers if I was at yesterday’s game.
I’d like the players to be upset about it, not just Thibs
Our role players are fine on defense. It’s Randle & RJ. Fournier too, but who gives a shit about him. Randle & RJ are the problem.
I get it and I agree on the merit, he is a win-now coach, we weren’t a win-now team.
But in “their” hopes there were positives (at least expected): building a “culture”, building a “defensive identity”, keeping the players accountable.
My question is: what now?
Do they (the FO) keep him until the end of the year out of loyalty?
Do they let him run out his contract?
They had a chance last year, before the ASG and stayed still, will they do the same in the hope that he’ll right the ship in the next few games (BTW, Utah’s game is a fairly winnable one if the team play just average)?
If it was a mistake, how long they’ll keep “paying” for it before cut the losses and change course?
Me too…
The players should be ashamed…
“…what is the way this team could actively try to tank, anyway?”
I don’t see a pivot to “tanking” per se before we are like 40+ games in, but a disastrous streak that gets Thibs fired could fracture the firewall of this FO and put Leon on the hot seat, given how closely aligned Thibs and Leon are. Obviously Dolan is very aware of how the Donovan Mitchell stuff went down, and going from “we are trading for a superstar” to “we are tanking after signing Randle, RJ and Brunson to expensive long-term deals” is a perilous bridge to cross.
That said, it may not be a matter of choice. This team is just not very good, and the lack of defense is glaring. Mitch and Grimes being healthy are potential plusses, but at the end of the day we just don’t measure up on D to the offensive firepower that most teams have.
“Our role players are fine on defense.”
Not really. Obi is legitimately terrible on D. Rose and Fournier are really bad. We are probably overrating both Hart and Sims. IQ is good but he ain’t stopping big talented guards like SGA or Giddey.
There isn’t a single good defensive lineup we can employ right now. RJ got absolutely torched out there yesterday. Randle is in a fog. rim protection doesn’t stop open 3’s from going down.
To see a Thibs-coached team give up two consecutive 43-pt quarters, especially before and after halftime, is pretty telling.
I don’t like working on a sunday, but looks like missing yesterday’s game was a blessing. What a blunder.
Good to know Hubert and Geo had a great time. And i’ve never suspected that Geo was short for George. Always thought Geo’s dream was to be the narrator of nature documentaries (National Geographic = Geo). 😀
“I wanted to do the sensible thing and wait until 20 games”
I think at this point, waiting the 20 games is like when the networks wait until calling a race in the election. It is looking very likely that this team is worse than the Vegas prediction (certainly no better) but there are still some things that could happen to “sort of” turn things around. Mitch could return, Grimes could hit his stride, RJ and Randle could be held accountable on D (their shooting is not the problem, in 7 November games, Randle has .624 TS% on 27% usage and RJ has a .567 TS% on a 25% usage.) If they go out and win 2 out of 5 on this road trip, including kicking OKC’s ass in the rematch, maybe the mood around the team gets a little lighter. But MSG fans are going to start getting restless if Randle and Co. keep dogging it on D.
I do think Mitch being out is hurting us immensely.
But I don’t know if we can/should “tank” at least not in the strict meaning of the word.
What we should do is trade D Rose, Fournier and Randle and play McBride, Grimes/IQ, and Obi more.
I just don’t know how we do that. D Rose I think would be easy enough to move but Fournier and Randle might cost us draft capital. If it’s second rounders, whatever. But giving up first rounders would be a tough pill to swallow.
If losing Randle, Fournier and Rose cost us games and therefore we get a higher lottery pick…whatever. Cool! But I suspect we wouldn’t really be that much worse without those dudes.
cyber, did you see my post to you from yesterday?
Definitely feels like Thibs might be in some trouble. The schedule is absolutely brutal over the next 3 weeks, not just this nasty road trip, but then a really rough stretch at home with POR, MEM, @DET, DAL, CLE, ATL. Feels like pretty much a make or break stretch for this season and quite possibly for Thibs in NY. I can’t see him surviving if they’re 8-17 or something like that which is definitely in play.
What we should do is trade D Rose, Fournier and Randle and play McBride, Grimes/IQ, and Obi more.
We should not trade Evan as he will be needed to help Victor settle in to life in New York and the NBA.
If Thibs was playing Grimes 25-30 minutes a night now off no training camp, missing most practices since then, and a recurring injury that could barely handle a practice let alone a serious work load in games, even I would call him for him to be fired.
This is a guy that is known for overworking players and possibly causing injuries. He’s taking a cautious approach to ensure we have Grimes fit and healthy for the rest of the season and people are still whining. smh
I get it.
People hate Thibs, want to blow up the team, and tank even if takes 10 years to get a star, but he and the MEDICAL staff are handling this correctly. If anything, they pushed too fast last time.
Alan I’ve mentioned before that one of the more frustrating things about this team is there aren’t any clear moves we can make to pivot. Normally when things go off the rails for a team there are vets to be traded, young players to be played more, etc.
Now, there are small things we can do like glueing Rose and Fournier to the bench in favor of IQ, Grimes, and maybe even Deuce (probably time to find out if there’s anything at all there).
We can also continue to lessen the difference between Randle and Obi’s roles–the default option being a 50/50 split with some overlap and adjustments based on matchups and whoever is playing better on a given night would make sense. I don’t think whether we can trade Randle will hinge on whether he averages 26 minutes a game or 32.
We should obviously try to trade Randle, but I won’t belabor the whole “takes two to tango” point. Pretty sure if there were takers he’d already be gone.
None of this stuff is going to make a huge difference though, right? I mean it’s not even clear any of it would lead to fewer wins.
Oh wait, we can just give our 2021 and 2022 first-round picks more run! Ahahahahahahahahahaha this is the bad place.
“They’re selling postcards of the hanging, they’re painting the passports brown
The beauty parlor is filled with sailors, the circus is in town
Here comes the blind commissioner, they’ve got him in a trance
One hand is tied to the tight-rope walker, the other is in his pants
And the riot squad they’re restless, they need somewhere to go
As Lady and I look out tonight, from Desolation Row”
Bob Dylan
Thanks a lot, Z-man, i really want to watch this. It was the darkest day of the century around here, with more than 60 dead because of a huge wildfire. And in trying to fight it, police, firefighters and their commands lost contact because the system went down, so the police kept routing the cars running away from the fire to a road, now called the “road of death”, because it was safe before but the fire had changed course since they’ve lost contact and sending people down that road was now a death trap. Always feel sad when i talk about this, or write in this case, because it was all avoidable. And i can’t imagine being behind the wheel with my family and notice the fire surrounding us not knowing where to go. That region has a lot of visitors on weekends and people probably didn’t had clue to where they were suppose to go when the smoke came and they stopped being able to see the road. A complete tragedy but unfortunately the day isn’t even remembered around here, so the next tragedy can be near because they already forgot about this one. And speaking about the comms system that went down, some months ago they gathered the media to prove it works and it failed again. And still not a lot of people worried… and this is my country, we have a lot of virtues but we are so lazy when matters are of the utmost importance. It’s something like someone wrote on the game thread about Quick dribbling the ball around like we were winning. We’re all Quickleys around here!
(sorry about the long post, but this subject really speaks to my heart)
Owen, thanks (sort of) for that clip of images re Randle and his excretory defense. It was what I thought I was seeing out of the corner of my eye, so nice (sort of) to have it substantiated as just what I thought.
Thibs should be tied to a chair and forced to watch that over and over again.
And I feel like someone could make a set of clips of Barrett’s defense from yesterday and it would look just the same. Between the pouting and terrible effort on D, makes me wonder if he’s caught Randleitis…
Yes, when you were writing this, i was writing my long post about it. Thanks again.
walkerandbendercornerstones,
I completely agree with your last post.
The question is whether we are better off coughing up assets just to rush this along faster even though we’ll need those assets to eventually land a key player or are we better off just riding this out since everyone knew this wasn’t a finished product and we weren’t going anywhere this year anyway.
A time passes, it gets easier to move Fournier. Plus he comes off after next year anyway. We could even just buy him out.
Randle is more problematic because of the length of his contract. He has to play well enough to move without including a 1st rounder. I couldn’t care less about a couple of 2nds. We aren’t going to get what we need out of the 2nd round anyway. But a 1st is too much.
There is no reason to panic into a bad deal just to do “something”.
Some of the young players we might want to swap for a more defense oriented team or an upgrade can be moved individually or as a package. That’s where I’d focus going into the trade deadline unless God smiles on us and deal is available for Fournier and/or Randle.
Rose can also be moved, but we’ll need another backup PG if we do that. It might be time to audition Deuce again. At least we’ll get defense even if the offense is comical again.
If a team otherwise does not want to sign up for 3.7 years of Julius Randle, there is no chance any amount of second-round picks will change that. A single protected first won’t even do it.
We either have to find a team that affirmatively wants Julius Randle, which will almost certainly require him to play better than he currently is (even with the improved shot selection and efficiency, he’s still a tick below the league average TS% for power forwards) or require us to attach *serious* sweetener to trade him.
We don’t have many (read: any) options here besides continuing to play him and hoping someone else wants him at some point.
IQ can and did guard SGA. IQ guarded SGA in the 4th. SGA scored 2pts on 1-3 shooting.
IQ is an elite defender.
IMO you don’t attach picks to someone just to move them. You do it to help facilitate something you want along the lines of greasing the wheels to create space for Brunson. There is no rush.
Maybe there’s a 3 team deal that includes a couple of 2nd rounders or we take back a different moderately overpaid defense oriented PF for less years but include 2nd rounders. We can take back another suspect contract for less years as long as it improves the team and adds flexibility.
michael k. root…i met mike at the preparatory school in fort monmouth new jersey…
i was barely 18 and pretty completely clueless…mike was one of the prep students who had been in the military before coming to the school…about a quarter to a third half of the 300 person class were prior military…
mike had been like a narc or something for either military intelligence or the military police…our last names are close in the alphabet so we were in the same company…
he was cool, had an earing and was kicking butt at the school, not a physical specimen, but definitely a step ahead in everything else…i’m a bit of a social misfit, behavioral fuckup and even worse at academics, so we never really hung out a lot…
after we left the prep school and got to school, ran in to mike again the summer before our sophomore year – camp buckner (summer training site some miles away from campus)…
back when i was there at the school – we got shuffled in to different companies after our freshman year at school…squad < platoon < company < battalion < regiment < brigade
thought was, freshman year sucks majorly with the upperclassmen in your ass a bunch…better to give folks a new start with a different group after that…
ended up in H-3 with mike…before beginning the sophomore year while we were at buckner doing training stuff (it was really fun) mike tagged me with: geo
my best friend in high school had a brother named teofilo, we called him teo…i always liked the way that sounded…
the only folks now though who know me as geo are the one buddy from college i still stay in touch with, you all, and people i game with…
while gaming, i make sure folks can see my name as i either dance or play musical instruments over their corpses before they re-spawn…no teabagging though, that's just unimaginative and classless…
It seems like an acci-tank might be our best hope. With ping-pong ball luck that we have not had since the Ewing draft, maybe we snag the 6th pick, then ( assuming FO does not trade for 3 futures first in 2028), with enormous luck, maybe we get a DMitch or SGA). Towards this extremely unlikely scenario, hope they keep Thibs*, lest JB be the catalyst for a dead cat bounce.
* If the Knicks are embarrased on this road trip like they were by BK and OKC, I don’t think Thibs survives. I wonder, who has Dolan’s ear right now.
“We don’t have many (read: any) options here besides continuing to play him and hoping someone else wants him at some point.”
You could 2008-09 Marbury him. Granted, it’s tougher with 3.7 years left as opposed to 1. If his contract was up at the end of next year or this year, I’d Marbury him tomorrow and never look back.
that’s fascinating stuff strat…
i used to love those science shows that depict how the brain works…it still amazes me to the degree that our mind is required to simply: fill in the blank…
just a lot of autonomous functions related to that going on all the time…there is just so much missing data…it’s all a bunch of constant extrapolation going on…
yep, it is all suspect, and constantly feeling your way through the dark…
so easy to be so sure of false conclusions, based on suspect input and computation…
IQ can and did guard SGA. IQ guarded SGA in the 4th. SGA scored 2pts on 1-3 shooting.
IQ is an elite defender.
big fan of quick’s d, but no. i think he guarded sga on maybe 2 possessions in the entire 4th. it was mainly cam on him.
I think Tuesday’s game is one of the most important games of this early season for Thibs. Going in to Utah to play Ainge’s team after what went down this past summer is a special kind of spotlight. I think we match up well with the Jazz and if we look listless while getting get blown out, that could be the final straw….
OTOH, a win puts us right back at .500, which is probably as good or better than the chalk prediction going into the season.
yeah but – stratomatic sounds waaaaaay cooler 🙂
didn’t you used to have some additional words after stratomatic in your moniker?
Knicks have the 8th worst SRS & Net Rtg. We only have 2 more games against the Pistons. Who says we can’t tank?
both false, and true…
“big fan of quick’s d, but no. i think he guarded sga on maybe 2 possessions in the entire 4th. it was mainly cam on him.”
He’s definitely a good defender, but SGA is not being defended by anyone when he has it going like he did beyond guys like Marcus Smart of Jimmy Butler. IQ may be elite by some metrics, but he’s not in that class. Anyway, the larger point was to refute the contention that our role players in general are fine on defense. They definitely are not.
“Knicks have the 8th worst SRS & Net Rtg. We only have 2 more games against the Pistons. Who says we can’t tank?”
Since the 20-game mark is sort of the quarter pole of the “race to the 10th seed” maybe we should have a revised win-loss prediction poll thread at that time…
In the off-season I was willing to trade Julius with serious sweetener partly because I thought this would help RJ develop. That ain’t happening, and agree with Strat that there is no rush to trade him. But I don’t fully agree with TNFH that we have to continue to play him. Don’t necessarily Marbury him, just play him the amount of minutes that his play deserves (which is more than zero). I don’t think that would become a team distraction and if it did (a) who cares; (b)it means we are losing anyway so will help with the tank; or (c) deal with it appropriately at the time.
I guess I’m just talking out loud here. I’m less interested in the Knicks defense at this moment than understanding how our minds work (or at least mine) and how we can drift away from thinking clearly about something we already know over time.
Is there a name for that kind of thing?
strat i enjoyed your post and i applaud you for not thinking you’ve solved fallibility by just saying the word bayesian thirty fucking times like everyone else now please buy my newsletter. but to be overly blunt i kinda of smirked at the end, bc i think you are concerned about the base rate fallacy here whereas your tendency if anything seems toward overconfidence in the robustness of your hardest won convictions. not just your tendency, of course — many of ours.
i have lots of hard earned ideas about how to traverse the treachery of flailing between overanchoring and flapping the wind of recent developments. unfortunately, none of them are actual wisdom. i prefer to avoid thinking of thinking as one big thing and thus don’t mess around with “an approach,” ie making it more or less systemic as you suggest. i try to work pretty hard at rethinking the same idea over and over from very different starting points, including regularly resetting from scratch. often i fail and end up just pretending to, though.
And i’ve never suspected that Geo was short for George.
have none of you guys seen adaption? you really think it’s a coincidence that our gregarious swashbuckling felonypot and our introspective world weary empath just happened to finally cross swords with no third party present? there is no geo. it’s kaufmans all the way down.
OK I want to learn how to post pics here. I need to get on Alan and Swifty’s level 😉
Someone last week asked me if the coworker trolls have been quiet lately. I wanna show a couple of pics on here that will answer that (lol) but I need help pls.
I don’t know about you PT, but I’ve solved fallibility with this one cool trick (Bayesian conditionalization with wholly subjective priors in small worlds). Just don’t look at my sportsbook record
I don’t think images are allowed, CDiggy. You should put the images on an online link and then add the link to your comment here.
“what is the way this team could actively try to tank, anyway?”
Trade RJ, Randle, Fournier. Trade RJ before his extension pls
OK cyber I’ll try it this way.
So this is what I came back to Saturday when I finally got back to the office; a “new” California prop measure:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GoBcqYKbsqSyx74w7
https://photos.app.goo.gl/dghkikmkTfWQuZt69
cyber, the documentary goes very deeply into how the event unfolded and the ensuing tragedy and trauma but doesn’t do it from the vantage point of a failure of bureaucratic systems. Instead, it focuses on how the natural ecosystems in that area have been dramatically altered by human-planted eucalyptus groves displacing native trees and plants. Apparently, the eucalyptus trees remove very little carbon and totally fuck up the nutrient and moisture balance in the soil, which the scientist described as pretty much nothing but dust. There was elaboration on getting locals to buy into planting less fire-prone species like Strawberry trees in place of eucalyptus. There was also discussion about an initiative called the Trillion Tree Campaign, an international effort to plant trees as a means of capturing carbon, particularly in areas that have been impacted by deforestation.
So Portugal’s tragedy is less the topic of the documentary and more a very visceral example of the global impact of climate change through the lens of a tight-knit local community.
I’m obviously not a Thibs fan. But Leon could do a lot worse. Its all relative and depends on who the replacement is. Dwayne Casey is a decent coach too but Nick Nurse is much better. The job of the GM is not just to replace players with better players but coaches too.
Charles Lee at Milwaakee is my first pick to interview. Becky Hammond a close 2nd.
Passing Calculus grade in High School would be nice. Not someone who says he once heard of Darko or 100% promises to make sure at least one of his assistants is fluent in both Raptor or LeBron.
wow cdiggy, i am impressed, that in fact is some pretty hilarious office trolling…nice 🙂
The struggles of this team and the lack of clear options to fix the problems are not at all surprising. We’re built around RJ Barrett and Julius Randle, a foundation of popsicle sticks held together by a couple of sticks of Fruit Stripe gum. It’s going to be pretty impossible to build anything on that foundation.
We have some decent, not great, young players who seem like they should be useful role players in the league. No breakout stars. No potential for breakout stars. No players who are strong two-way players that you can build around.
Unfortunately the situation appears to be what we feared: we’re locked into mediocrity, and the guy who we are hoping is going to lead us out of mediocrity is the guy who brought us there in the first place. This situation requires the kind of creative problem solving that Leon “I Haven’t Made Any Major Blunders” Rose is not capable of.
We’re playing out the string until Leon and Thibs are sent packing. Leon is not gonna be able to fix this.
there is no geo
don’t fuck with me milo – i’m finally fairly certain this whole experience is really taking place, somewhere, at some time…and not just some simulation…
i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…i am real…
i have substance…
I thought it’d be about the weather, climate changes, just wanted to give another look of what happened. It’s still a must watch for me, and everybody that care about our little planet should too. About Portugal and what i said, if we’re not good in the here and now, and as things are going to get worse, we’re doomed. But that day was kind of a perfect storm, with high winds coming from the Sahara desert. I went on the balcony early in the day and immediately said to Lady Cyber “So hot and windy, this is going to be a day from hell” although i didn’t imagine such a tragedy at that time. We have been making a lot of mistakes around here, being the eucalyptus one of the more contentious topics from the last, i don’t know, probably 40 years, because i remember this being discussed when i was a kid. It’s an evil tree, that’s what i’ll say about it.
Reddish and RJ and two 2nds for Embiid who says no
59 points on 28 shots and 24 FT, 11 REB, 8 AST, 7 BLK is one of the most insane box scores I’ve seen in the modern NBA
.765 TS% on 53.5 USG%
“It’s an evil tree, that’s what i’ll say about it.”
Yeah, but like with a lot of things in my life that I probably should have avoided, sure smells great!
You may ultimately be right (which means I’m probably going to be wrong about this year’s team lol), although I’d like to give him the opportunity to see the opportunity to pivot this season should things keep going as it has. Among the defensive issues, the team just feels clunky. And while that’s not a surprise to most of yall, I think some (like me) needed to see how far Brunson could go to alleviate that. He’s been good, but it’s just not enough.
I’ve said before that RJ’s progression would be the #1 factor for the franchise moving forward. I’m starting to believe that it wouldn’t be unfair to use this season as the deciding factor on the risk/reward of continuing to develop him twds a #2 guy vs selling him off as a young, competent starter who could use a different team structure around him.
Embiid can only go downhill from his last game while Can and RJ most likely will improve from their last game. Given that, 2 seconds seems fair but if they balk I would throw in Julius to seal the deal.
Bayesian conditionalization with wholly subjective priors in small worlds
interesting stuff unbearable…reading some different words on conditionalization…this is like logic stuff, huh…ugh, that’s like stuffing math formulas in to words…
mutually exclusive, probabilism, diachronic, and my new fave: jointly exhaustive – which seems to just mean -> something has to be right, right?
yeah, money money money…ah, i see this stuff is very popular with the we get our kicks, out on route 66, looking for gas stations with lotto machines in them folks…
but, if you were to tell me that this predictive method leads to the quickest “truth”, i would probably believe you…
“…#1 factor for the franchise moving forward”
There is no other way to move forward than to get a great player via draft, by losing. Seriously. Average draftees and vets will get you average lottery results. Keep Thibs/Fiz/Fisher/Horn/etc to tank harder because he hire and draft fucking stupid.
If you’re stuck in a Pac-Man dead-end and Blinky is a comin’, do you just mash against the wall or go back to go forward and get that Power Pellet or even a Fly Dot?? Huh??!
Smells great, but it should never be planted outside of Australia. It serves zero ecological role outside of a perch for birds and a tinderbox for fires. It’s like planting highly flammable cell phone towers without the ability to provide cell service. I hate the forestry industry for it. “But it grows fast!” is such a lame rationale for laying waste to entire ecosystems.
Sorry, rant over. Back to trashing Barrett.
ptmilo
” i try to work pretty hard at rethinking the same idea over and over from very different starting points, including regularly resetting from scratch. ”
Thanks for the thoughts.
Here’s a related story.
I had a terrible weekend betting on the Breeder’s Cup. I came pretty close to wiping out all the profits for the year in 2 days (not that it was that much to begin with haha). When things like that happen, it shakes your confidence. You wonder, maybe something is changing and I missed it. I spent the last week running queries against my database. I was basically starting from scratch trying to clear and reset my head.
This team needs both identity and intelligence. Easily fixable in two steps. 🙂
1) Start an play IQ for 36 minutes at the two.
2) Swap Randle + a 1st round pick for a any stretch junk yard PF that rebounds and defends at a high rate (ex. Bobby Portis).
3) Hire Charles Lee.
He 100% stole that award from Monty. Randomness happened and people were fooled by it. It was unpopular to point that out as it was happening, but time has proved it true beyond doubt.
… and the vote didn’t include the playoffs.
Oddly enough I identify with both these descriptions so I don’t know which one is me.
What’s a felonypot?
But those three players are performing terribly. We might actually get better.
The only way this team could accident-tank is if we lost Mitch and Brunson to injuries.
Geez, come on. Why is a debate about whether our coach was the best or second best coach 2 years ago relevant now to the discussion?
Speaking of gambling, Strat, my long shot (the Portland Trail Blazers) is tied with yours (the Nuggets) atop the west. Portland’s title odds are down to +6000. I got them at +12000, but the only site offering those odds had a $200 maximum.
any regular who changes their username should have to write their prior name in their posts for like, 6 months
This.
I used to be Raven.
Ramahawk is actually Rama
Deep fake
Z–man, formerly known as Z-man
What are the odds based on what I know? How will they change when I learn something new?
BTW, the solution is to just set your priors equal to 1 or 0. It’s the world that’s always wrong, not me.
Poster formerly known as Early Bird
Just hope Randle keeps putting up numbers and we can grab a 1st or 2 for him. Sacramento is is still stupid, right?
This is the way.
What’s a felonypot?
a honeypot, but for eclectic felonies as reckless cycling, apartment marauding, and desert abandonment.
I am very confident that the Knicks will surprise with some West Coast wins. Thibs is like a cockroach. He finds a way to survive.
I was “neuropit” many years ago, but it’s been so long that I doubt anyone remembers…
Someone has read the super-long chain of tweets about Randle’s defense that Macri re-tweeted? If not, stay away.
And I’m the hater? 😉
We’ll probably go 2-3 on the western swing and come back still in the thick of the play-in race…
“I got them at +12000, but the only site offering those odds had a $200 maximum.”
is that the same site that is 100% backed by FTX?
I’ve never changed my username, but i’m thinking about it. The Awesome Cyber Soze seems much more fitting than only cyber soze. 😀
Hahaha. Now you’re gonna attract even more people to it. 😛
ESPN+ article has the contenders and “wildcards” in the Wemby sweepstakes…no mention of the Knicks in there……bummer..
That’s how you attract people to horror movies: don’t open that door! 😉
And somehow the ringing phone is always at the end of a super long corridor!
I am the poster formerly known as Brian Cronin.
This is Silky, reporting in from the “It’s A Small World” ride at DisneyLand
-Silky
All the name changes here was a fitting prelude to the whole twitter name change/verification hilarity. I have enjoyed that a lot more than I expected.
Leon has done what he perceived to be was best for Dolan, which is put a credible basketball team out there. I think Dolan is fine with winning 40 games and sneaking in to a few play-in games while keeping the Garden full. And not getting fired works for Leon I would imagine.
I used to be ghenman.
I was once “Knick fan in Nj” but not for a long time
Which still puzzles me, because I agree, Rose seems to be managing the franchise in a way so as to avoid getting fired, but he was the one who was wooed by Dolan! Not the other way around! So why did he even take the job!?
I think Thibs is certainly talented as a coach, but not for a rebuilding team like the Knicks. I hated his hiring and I hate that he is still the coach. So yes, when it comes to Thibs as the Knicks coach, I am very much a hater.
I think this is just the process Rose wanted to play. Biding time with incremental improvements and accumulating assets until time comes to trade for the big star
This has been true since their first days on the job.
i don’t know hubie, but i’m pretty sure it’s an insult…a fancy one at that, but, not exactly entirely complementary…
and by the way mister insightful, not really a toll booth, toll booth guy, i am not world weary, i’m just a bit tired today, and need to sit and catch my breathe for a while…yep…
i’m okay…
He wasn’t the 2nd best coach, either. Random shit happened and he got all the credit for it.
It’s relevant because the idea that Thibs “carried scrubs to 41 wins” is the whole reason he is still here. Not to mention hiring Thibs was the one good thing Leon had going for him, and now he doesn’t even have that.
glad I’m not the only one dissociating
LOL! I’m going to find who you are, Mr Troll. 😛
I keep waiting to see someone post “I am the poster formerly known as bobneptune” 😀
Well, the Thunder are beating the Celtics at halftime, so maybe they are just THAT good?
At the half in Boston, OKC has scored 69 points and SGA has 18 of them.
Maybe the Thunder are just really freakin’ good…
Damn ess, you beat me to it, I was distracted by the AZ gov news
Over the last 3 games vs the Bucks, Raptors and Knicks the Thunder scored 132, 132 and 145 points. Tonight they have 83 points with 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter vs one of the best defenses in the NBA
There’s something happening here….
How far are we from a legit question: which backcourt would you rather have, Spida-Garland or SGA-Giddey?
Nobody should be Cronining OKC against the Celtics
Wow, the Celtics came back and won. They still gave up 122 point to OKC.
It’s a good thing OKC doesn’t have a talented young center or they’d crush the league for the next dozen years (or until they can’t afford it)
Just imagine if they had a bully ball PF to grind opponents down
The way things stand at this moment, it seems to me like there are only 4 sure lottery teams in the NBA right now (ORL, DET, SAS and HOU) and even those teams can win on any given night.
I’d put a bunch of teams in the conference semifinals contenders bucket:
EC: BOS, MIL, TOR, CLE, MIA, ATL, PHI, and probably BKN
WC: PHX, LAC, DEN, POR, MEM, GSW, and probably NOP and MIN
Then a bunch in the fighting for the play-in to likely first round exit bucket:
EC: CHI, WAS, NYK, IND, CHA
WC: DAL, UTA, LAL, SAC, probably OKC
Looking at it that way, again with the caveat as things stand right now, we look like we should be at the very bottom of the play-in contender list in the EC, maybe slightly above IND and about even at best with CHA.
I’d put Lakers (Pelicans) as a sure Lottery team.
“I’d put Lakers (Pelicans) as a sure Lottery team.”
Somehow I think the Lakers are going to make a stand and cling to the playoff chase. But that’s probably based on irrational faith in LeBron and AD.
I used to be Mike Honcho though I was pretty sporadic so I doubt many remember
i kind of like kaminari better than mike honcho, it’s got a nice sound to it, not sure what it means, but sounds cool…
what pic is that as your avatar?
Per Twitter
“Jalen Brunson had the most honest appraisal when asked if he checked with Thibodeau for explanation of why he was benched in the 4th: “I mean, I wouldn’t have played myself either, the way I was playing defensively.””
https://nypost.com/2022/11/14/knicks-schedule-only-gets-more-daunting-with-defense-in-free-fall/
It’s mostly a pun involving my irl name but kaminari means lightning/thunder in japanese according to google translate. The picture is of Turin, the protagonist of the excellent little LOTR book The Children of Hurin. And yeah haha Mike Honcho was from a line in Talladega Nights so the joke kind of got stale with that one.
I play music with John C. Reilly sometimes. John likes to puff on an occasional joint, as do I. So we did an appearance at Largo once, and after we played, John’s like “I have this killer weed, you want to hit this joint?” Then he lit it up in the little outside patio area.
The security guys came up to us and said “You gotta go smoke that out on La Cienega,” at which point John says “If I go out on the street to smoke this, I’m gonna get harassed by people saying ‘shake and bake’ at me.” But we grudgingly went out there anyway.
I kid you not, it did not take 10 seconds for a group of people to start shouting “shake and bake” and asking to be in selfies with him. Being famous kind of sucks.
the pic looks so familiar for some reason…shoot now that I know what it means, kaminari sounds even cooler than before…
as always, super cool story jk, that’s gotta be a little weird for him, smoking out is like the definition of wanting to be left alone for a while and chill…
I’m high, get out of my face..
I haven’t seen thievery like this since those two crooks in the film, Home Alone!