Heck, I think you could even call it three tiebreakers, since the Knicks won the tiebreaker against the Hawks, with the Knicks getting the #19 pick and the Hawks getting the #20 pick and then the Mavericks won a three way tiebreaker, with the Knicks getting the #21 pick rather than #22 or #23.
Magic fucking pixie dust for the win!
80 replies on “You KNOW Things Are Different For the Knicks Now – They Just Won TWO Draft Pick Tiebreakers”
So we finally paid our dues (Ewing envelope) ?
Some comments about the last thread:
1 – There’s a team that might be more appealing to DRose than the Knicks, i just hope they don’t want him;
2 – Our offseason is more tricky than “bring the band back”, because of the cap implications of it (removing us from the possibility to add a max free-agent in 2022);
3 – I was a Frankophile for 2 years, but on the 2nd year he regressed on the only skill he has (defense), so i disbanded; I still kept some hope he’d turn it around, but now i think it’s very unlikely and find it annoying the number of posts about Frank; Obi is getting a lot better and there’s not one Obi-ophile that i know of; To be frank (pun intended) posts about him now have the “bobneptune effect” on me, as soon as i realize it’s about Frank (the player, not the poster) i skip to the next comment; And no, Strat, i won’t be rooting for him to fail, i’ll root for him to succeed and i’ll be very happy if he can prove me wrong (which is when i’ll start reading posts about Frank again);
we interrupt this regularly scheduled [redacted] debate to ask: anyone have any luck with those small portable ac units they sell on amazon???
thankfully the last few years, it hasn’t started reaching 100 (38 celsius for the rest of the world 🙂 til around july…the home ac is okay, but, just don’t like running it all day and night…wanna pick up a few of those small room units for me and the kids…
#19 and #21 sound like some lucky numbers…
There is a lot about them that is awful (as the tubing is inherently impossible to connect well), but my wife and I got use out of one of them for years.
Not trying to start a whole big thing here, but I think the difference in fandoms between Obi and Frank is that Obi is playing behind an all-star and our best player whereas Frank was benched for some guys that were truly horrific (Muiday and Peyton). So, the play Obi more argument would be a lot more difficult to make.
Yeah I was definitely holding out hope for Frank and maybe we did screw up his development to some degree by not giving him a regular dose of minutes and set role from day one. Blame Horns or Fizdale but he also never stayed healthy long enough to get extended burn. And he has not really improved AT ALL since we drafted him except for 3 point shooting which he does so infrequently its hard to really know if its for real or not. I mean, if he can’t carve out a role in his 4th year playing for a coach who absolutely loves defense first players, what chance does he really have?
Back to the off season. I say we go after Lonzo. I’ve gone back and forth but at the end of the day he is 23, a good passer, good in transition, good 3 point shooter and good defender. He’d fit in nicely with what we’re doing I think and even at 20 million/yr is not a huge overpay when you consider his age and potential to still get better. out of all of the options, he is the one most likely to make a jump similar to what Randle did with us this year (not saying he’ll jump to that level but he has the highest chance of taking a big leap forward while on his next contract).
Plus he only costs us cap space, which is important, obviously, but I see him as the best chance to add a young, core piece that fits in with our timeline/core.
Then draft another PG and a wing and bring back as much of the band as possible – Rose, Burks, Bullock, Noel, Taj in that order.
Yeah, you’re right there. Maybe it’s just me, but now i can’t read comments about Frank, it’s always the same things repeated over and over, and what’s worst is that then Frank doesn’t live up to the bar that’s set on those comments.
Nerlens now listed as Questionable for tomorrow night.
I’m not a cap expert. I’ll leave that to the GMs. But imo the idea would be to trade for a starting PG and then bring back our own players and fill up or go over the cap. If the timing or contract status of certain players won’t allow for that, it may take some creative thinking. But the “band” we have now is pretty good and has a lot of upside. We also have excess picks. The least attractive thing we can do is get cheaper inferior free agents, go backwards, and draft some 19 year old role players with the 19 and 21 picks. The idea (must idea) is to put a better team on the court next year with the same or more upside.
Can someone please explain the point of that deblasio cinference!?!
Why is he pissing off trae.
I am Lonzo curious, but I think there’s almost no chance he can be had for money alone. New Orleans can just threaten to match a team’s offer unless they agree to a sign-and-trade. For that reason my guess is the money + assets required to get him will be too much for me. It’s not insane to think we could get someone within his productivity range in the draft.
Assuming nothing unexpected e.g. Kawhi getting wandering eyes materializes I wouldn’t hate just re-signing Bullock/Burks/Noel to inflated one-year deals (with the inflation being necessary to justify them foregoing multiyear deals), re-signing Rose and Taj if possible, and replacing as many of Frank/Knox/Payton/Pelle/two-way guys as possible with draft picks. Between Mitch coming back, Barrett continuing to improve, and the decent chance even rookies would outproduce that group we could still take a reasonable step forward with this approach while maintaining maximum flexibility for the summer of 2022.
Things get a little tricky if Bullock/Burks/Noel insist on multiyear deals. I would definitely at least negotiate with the former 2, but not sure how you could justify it with Noel unless the AAV figure is truly small.
I need the Playoff Julius data point before being able to sensibly plan.
Looking at PG options for next year, I can’t help wondering what type of contract Dinwiddie is likely to get. Assuming he is healthy, he might give you similar production to Lonzo, and perhaps cost fewer assets.
It a matter of team construction.
You need 3 scorers on the court (preferably 4) to run a good offense. When you have Nerlens Noel as your starting C and Bullock as your lower usage 3&D wing (better than Frank in that role at this point), you can’t also put Frank on the court and expect it to work. The offense will bog down badly, especially with RJ and Randle as the #1 and #2 options. In reality, RJ and Randle are 2nd and 3rd option players. That’s why things have been so bad with Payton. He’s bringing nothing to the offense. The starting unit can’t afford that. He has only been playing because we have a shortage of true PGs.
Thibs has been using Rose, Quick and Burks as the scorers in the 2nd unit with Taj and Obi. So you have your 3 scorers and overall that’s a pretty good bench unit. Throwing Frank on the bench unit unbalances it also.
For Frank to play more minutes he has to become a better 3&D player than Bullock over time or we have to be at the point where we have more talent and have a few lineups with 3 solid scorers plus Frank. You are not going to screw up a barely functioning offensive unit just to get Frank on the court.
My only point today has been that the other night was one bad play, but people are turning it into a career defining moment. IMO, that’s utter idiocy and Frank hate. Everyone gets beat once in awhile, especially by budding offensive superstars. More important is, what we should do with Payton when we don’t have any option that makes sense team construction wise. He’s been so bad, giving Frank those minutes may be terrible, but less terrible than Payton if we run the offense through Randle and Rose. The only other options screw up the bench unit. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision for game 2 because there are no good decisions.
it’s more like the cherry on top of a shit sundae….
the big problem with lonzo is you probably/might end up with the same problem you had with payton…. thibs wants his pg’s to drive into the paint and get buckets…. payton can’t do that consistently…. and so you’re left with someone doing something they’re bad at or you’re getting him to be your SG … like he was in new orleans…
neither is going to solve our problem for a pg….
Interesting stat from r/NBAdiscussion
Impressive. He’s got a grand total of 19 offensive boards in his career, spanning 4,589 minutes. You’d think he’d get a few more from bricked threes, but apparently he doesn’t give one fuck about ORBs. There’s no other way to explain it.
When a big part of the most knowledgeable bball fans (per many) still trusts a player it’s not smart to give up on him yet.
Especially in a year you’ve made crow your daily meal…
doesn’t he struggle a bit on defense, maybe he’s being told to get back on d right away???
hey djphan…so, any thoughts on whom are best bet might be at #19 or #21 for a pg?
just looked through some mock drafts, doesn’t look like ayo’s in many folks top 20…
looks like there’s a few candidates out there for where we’ll be picking:
– Josh Giddey
– Jared Butler
– Jaden Springer
– Sharife Cooper
– Davion Mitchell
yea i think ayo is underrated and that’s make it even more exciting…
this was basically a puff piece on him but you can’t really make most of this stuff up… the guy works hard at his game and it’s evident in the improvements in his shooting he made and what people say of him…
i didn’t include that in my ratings of him .. subjectively i think he’s probably the best non-Suggs pg in the draft…
the other guys are pretty good too…. Springer i don’t think is a pg… he sort of would be a Burks replacement… and it’s a similar type of game also….
Giddey is rated the highest… i’m soso on him but he probably won’t be available by the time we pick….
mitchell and butler are probably not pg’s either… butler is much much better than mitchell as a prospect…
cooper is interesting also…. i’m not sure if i like him but at 21 if ayo is off the board i would ultimately be ok with it maybe…
not counting [redacted], what’s it been, like since mardy collins that we’ve drafted a point guard in the first round…
almost wish we’d draft franz wagner just so we could argue about franz instead of [redacted]…
yeah Frank – i’m beginning to sense the need for a poster ID name change 🙂
“He doesn’t party. He doesn’t hang out. He doesn’t drink. He doesn’t go to the bars,” Chin says. “He’s never been to Kam’s [the venerable Champaign bar that labels itself ‘Home of the Drinking Illini’]. He’s all the way in this deal.”
hard not to smile reading the piece on him, seems like a great fit…him and rose would work well together…
a few late game one thoughts.
1. idk wtf we are trying to do when atlanta runs their spain pnr or double drag. when randle or rj are guarding the secondary screener, they would react by bellying up their man like the whole thing was a charade to get kyle korver open on a curl. nate mcmillan must have been like thank you very much i don’t know why i bothered with all the subterfuge, finally we can now get a legit pnr without noel or gibson hedging the lob, good luck with that weak side help quickley! we were actually lucky the didn’t run this even more than they did. presumably wednesday will not look like that. they’ve been running those plays all year so it’s not like it could have been a surprise. i have no problem over-hedging in trae in general (though noel probably has to be at least a little less predictable there) but our defense on those multi screener plays was real strange.
2. i don’t understand how randle took such a step up in defensive effort all year and chose game 1 of the playoffs to revert to half assing at least five key plays that i counted. there were two help plays in particular, one in semi transition and one in half court, that would have been egregious effort whiffs in a meaningless game. odd.
3. maybe we were surprised they played so many minutes with zero-defense lineups, because we did not change our game enough to exploit it. when they are running trae, huerter, bogdan, gallo and colllins we need to realize that we are going to get extremely high quality shots very, very often. can’t be settling for the same random pull-ups as if capela and hunter are still on the court.
Noble, the part that’s tricky is that in the case of Bullock and DRose, we have their early bird rights, so for the Knicks would be a lot more useful if they re-signed one year on the cheap. Because then we could have both cap holds without losing the space for a max contract, and when we finalize the 2022 deals we could go over the cap to reward them for this year at low money (by then we’ll have full bird rights on both).
I think Giddey has the potential to be highly controversial here on the board… let’s do it! 😉 It’ll be literally the changing of the guard. 😀
The Knicks only have Early Bird rights for Bullock.
I agree, but the problem is the free-agency crop, which is not promising at all. So unless Leon finds one or two good trades (your old plan of “win trades”), he must keep the powder dry and wait for 2022. But as Noble said we can bring the band back on inflated 1-year deals, that gives us one more year at this level and then we must play our cards right in the 2022 offseason.
Don’t we inherited the early bird rights the Pistons had because we trade for DRose?
I would guess that part of it is about not pursuing them…conceding them and getting back on D. I seems to be a typical strategy employed today…leave ORebounding to a big or two and run everyone else back on D to prevent transition. And since Robinson spends the vast majority of his time at the 3pt line on O, he is probably not in position to rebound on most looks. But it is a record-breaking number so clearly he’s the extreme case of not pursuing such rebounds.
Derrick Rose is probably going to sign a 3 year/$30 mill deal, hopefully with a team option in year 3. He’s probably not a starter on a contender at this point in his career and in this PG-dominant era, but he’s a top-shelf backup. So he’s maybe worth that money but not more. Maybe Leon convinces him to take less to be part of something special. I don’t think Rose wants to do the likes of his stints in Detriot, Minny, or his first go-around with the Knicks just to earn a few more $ and I’m not sure a contender can or would tie up salary in him.
Congrats Julius: Most Improved Player 2021
The Knicks failure to defend the Spain pick & roll (back screen for the screener) in the last five minutes meant that the Knicks were no longer “picking their poison” by forcing Trae Young to make floaters. Instead, Young was able to feed Bogie and Hunter for uncontested threes and Capela for an easy lob over IQ. It was a smart counter for the Hawks to defeat Taj Gibson in drop coverage.
Defending the Spain pick & roll requires at least four defenders to (a) know their roles and (b) make multiple efforts. I hope Thibs has the Knicks ready for it.
So Julius Randle won the Most Improved Player Award for the 2020-21 season.
Very well deserved, kudos to him for a fantastic regular season and for his work ethic.
Well done Julius!
Wow, that’s amazing. Congrats to him, it’s totally deserved. He’s having a fantastic season, and i think this is the season i like the most since the 1999 run to the NBA Finals.
It has to be a strategic choice, but the numbers are so horrible it’s almost like he’s being coached to start running back on D as soon as someone else shoots the ball. I checked J.J. Barea’s career numbers for comparison — Barea collected twice the ORBs in his very worst seasons. It’s just, like, how is this possible? Sort of like Tony Snell putting up goose eggs in every box score category the other night.
I’m buying a 13500 BTU ASHRAE GE portable for living/dining rooms this wknd. I’ll let you know in a week or two how it goes.
Also from last thread:
Where I’m from this means something completely different than how it was used here… lmao
It’s ok to go for a point guard in the draft, but it’s virtually impossible that we will draft a point guard that solves our problems at that position right away. We’re talking the 19th pick. A point guard drafted there, even if a great pick, will take a year or two to develop. Just look at Quickley. We did great drafting him, but his defense needed a lot of work and he didn’t beat out Payton for the starting job. Next season he could do that. I think it’s more realistic to count on him being better next year than to plan on drafting to fill the starting point guard position.
We are probably going to need three roster spots for our draft picks. My expectation is we don’t re-sign Peyton. We probably only keep one of Burks or Bullock, because one or both will get good offers and we can only keep one of them, and we don’t keep either Pelle or Gibson, assuming at least one of our picks is a defensive big man.
Yeah, but they’re not going to do that. I imagine just about everyone will be renounced in the summer of 2022 anyway, even if they’re eventually re-signed.
I imagine Cuban is on the phone with Adam Silver right now like “so there’s no suspension? Uh, are you sure? Can you check again?”
In all seriousness and putting aside the pandemic, hitting the club in the middle of a playoff series, particularly after a game in which you were terrible and your team won despite you, is…certainly a choice!
Maybe I’m wrong, but I have a feeling you won’t see Julius Randle fined for a similar infraction.
Shout out to Julius MIP Randle. Phenomenal turnaround this season. My hope was he would marginally improve so we could flip him for draft assets, so I am happy to have been proven very wrong.
I think Giddey is going to surprise a lot of people. Had the opportunity to watch a lot of him this season in the NBL and his feel for the game and basketball IQ is ridiculous for an 18 year old. He had back to back triple doubles at one point in the season. Would still be a project as he needs to hit the gym and work on his outside shooting consistency, but has really great length and can get into the paint with ease. I wouldn’t hesitate taking him if he falls to us. I don’t think he gets to us at 19 though.
I know one of his junior coaches pretty well and he has been raving about the kid for years. Thinks he has the tools to become Australian Luka, but I am going to chalk that up to a bit of hyperbole.
Probably not, it’s hard to convince a guy that played very well with “now i need you to work for peanuts, ok?”. LOL
I’m very high on Giddey. The numbers are great and the tape is even better IMO but obviously that’s subjective.
In any event, “tall point guard who put up impressive numbers in the NBL” is an archetype in which I now have an irrational amount of confidence. With a gun to my head, I probably would package both picks for him.
FWIW and IMO Giddey had significantly better rookie year (both numbers wise and eye test) in the NBL than LaMelo. Whether that translates into him being as NBA ready as LaMelo has been is probably debatable, but if he falls late lottery-mid first round, it will be a steal for anyone that picks him. NBL has become a really great platform for guys getting on an NBA roster, even for “vets” outside of the Next-Stars program the league runs.
It’s ok, I’m sure Kristaps avoided any contact
Worth noting RJ got some MIP votes as well, so good on him too.
This seems to be true and probably means the NBL is going to be over valued by NBA GMs. From what I read here about him, I doubt Giddey drops to us.
if you go to duncan robinson’s nba.com page and take a brief video tour through his 7 orbs it will quickly become clear that there was some 2021 counting fraud after all. i’ll give him 4, tops.
LMAO Great line 😀
yep, the heat is coming cdiggy…right now about 25% humidity outside, it’s about to get bone dry though soon…another reason for wanting to live next to the ocean, my skin don’t always feel like its about crack and fall off there…
i was actually looking at the really small desktop ones (they’re basically desk fans being fed ice/water)…
i had looked at the larger (a little more costly) room sized products last year, but, waited too long and most of them were sold out at local retails…not sure why it never dawned on me to look online at the time…that 13500 BTU ASHRAE GE looks nice, great reviews…
sad to say, but, generally when the boys and i are inside on the weekends were doing pretty sedentary gaming stuff or boob tubing it, we all kind of just go to our separate spots in the house, upstairs is generally about 5 to 10 degrees hotter though…so, a few units with small cooling areas should work fine for that and knocking out at night…
that’s pretty interesting… what can you tell us about the NBL? getting info on foreign leagues is really tough unless they’ve been around awhile and you know someone in the country AND they follow it… like for the entirety of international basketball’s history it’s been the acb, turkish super league, then the german, french, adriatic and russan leagues in some order and then you had the nbl and chinese leagues…
I think our signing of Vildoza and the emergence of Rose makes the necessity of drafting a point guard much less urgent. I don’t see anyone we draft being likely to get more than spot minutes unless we lose multiple veterans. Even then, the Thibs window is probably only 3 or 4 years, so there is not much time for developing young players.
If Vildoza is at least a Campazzo-level player, that would help tremendously. I agree with tnfh that if Giddey is a legit prospect, we should trade up for him. I’ve looked at some highlights and am not convinced of that yet, definitely not LaMelo, but he is interesting!
Damn, who the hell is gonna beat the Nets if they stay healthy? You almost have to hope that Marcus Smart goes postal on one of the big 3.
A good team can stay with Nets for maybe 35-40 minutes, but there’s gonna be an 8-10 minute stretch where the Nets go nuclear and suddenly you’re down 15 points and it’s over.
This sitdown with my fave Mike Schmitz gives me a bit more confidence in Giddey…it’s fun listening to his accent.
The Nets are team that is good enough that Harden can play the role of facilitator. That is scary.
There’s a G-League game on TNT…
May 25, 2021 at 5:43 pm
yeah Frank – i’m beginning to sense the need for a poster ID name change :)”
I think the Bucks can give the Nets a bit of trouble in the East, but that’s basically eat. If they are healthy, I’m not really sure who can beat them. It might be a relatively smooth path to the title, especially with the Lakers in a bit of trouble.
May 25, 2021 at 7:45 pm
Worth noting RJ got some MIP votes as well, so good on him too.”
From their respective baselines, RJ improved more than Randle, I’d say. But nice to give it to the vet who finds a new tier rather than a terrible rookie who manages not to pull a [redacted].
One of the wittiest posts ever.
Quite the foul call on Jae Crowder…
that’s some pretty damn funny stuff right there Z…
very well earned title Frank – make it so sir 🙂
Philadelphia can match up defensively with Brooklyn, if Simmons plays Harden, Thybulle plays Irving and Harris covers KD. Curry or Green would cover Harris and Embiid would cover Griffin/Claxton/DJ. That Philly squad would struggle on offense with two non-shooters.
The Nets could counter by playing Green or Brown at the 4 and shifting KD to 5. Embiid’s post-ups would torture KD, but Embiid would be unable to cover KD on the perimeter.
It would be a very entertaining series.
two really good defenses going at it, been looking forward to this game…
interested to see how ayton performs…coming in to the league I thought he was a little soft…
he’s played well though the last couple of years…
It’s going to be a little weird when the Nets sweep the West champs and Joe Harris is named FMVP
Weird that the Clippers/Mavs aren’t on TV. (Even the Hornets/Wizards play-in game got a national spot, albeit at three in the afternoon on a Tuesday)
It’s nucking futs. And can’t you imagine that this style of play will probably also elongate his career by years?
You are right, I fucked that up! So that’s good news.
***Even the Hornets/Wizards play-in game***
Wait, it was the Hornets/Pacers wasn’t it? Well, regardless, it seems like the NBA scheduler could have staggered the LA games a bit better, and managed to put the Doncics on TV somehow.
TIM HARDAWAY JR playng a great game in Dallas.
Isnt the mastermind of Randle and Hardaway free agent signing could be right.
Doncic outplaying Kawhi and PG for 1/8 of their salary.
I am optimistic that we can beat the Hawks and upset Philly for a showdown with Brooklyn. Make it happen.
Damn, never doubt Swifty’s optimism. Maybe Kawhi does shop around after all.
I was aware of the other meaning, but I thought it was funny including it anyways. 😉