(Tuesday, March 05, 2019 9:35:16 PM)
Kevin Knox has been struggling of late but head coach David Fizdale is trying some new things to help him get through it.
(Tuesday, March 05, 2019 5:38:08 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis avoided the media in his return to New York, but Tim Hardaway Jr. wasn’t shy with his comments about the Knicks’ big trade with the Mavericks last month.
(Wednesday, March 06, 2019 12:03:28 AM)
The NBA2K League helds its draft on Tuesday and the Knicks selected OriginalMalik with the final pick of the first round.
[NYTimes] In a Season of Worsts, the Knicks Are Officially Eliminated (Tuesday, March 05, 2019 2:41:33 PM)
With Monday night’s 115-108 loss to the Kings in Sacramento, the Knicks fell to 13-51, the worst record in the N.B.A.
(Tuesday, March 05, 2019 10:53:01 PM)
PHOENIX — The Knicks inherited the worst record in the NBA from the Suns after Monday’s loss to Sacramento. The battle for the bottom will rage on Wednesday with the Knicks (13-51) in town to face the Suns (14-51). If these squads remain the bottom two, they’re both assured a top-six pick in the lottery….
(Tuesday, March 05, 2019 9:47:11 AM)
PHOENIX — It was a night Kevin Knox found some efficiency as coach David Fizdale embarked on a new plan to get him more post-ups. On the game’s first possession Monday in Sacramento, the 6-foot-9 Knox got the ball on the block and hit a fall-away over Bogdan Bogdanovic. Knox connected on another post-up move…
86 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.03.06)”
I really like the current Rockets team. If the Warriors didn’t have half of the 2017 Western Conference All-Stars on their roster, I’d really like their chances.
I think OKC has a better chance, but yeah, Houston is a good team right now.
I’ve missed the discussion here the last few days, but Trier really is sort of interesting in spite of being an old rookie at 23.
Quick B-R search – here is a list of rookies that have played >1000 minutes that have averaged FG 46+%, 3P% 40+%, 3PA/36>3, and a usage >20%
Allonzo Trier
Steph Curry
(interesting side note – the next person on the list who qualifies but played only 862 minutes his rookie year = Chris Copeland)
Seems pretty clear that he came back too early from his injury in December. Here are his TS% by month:
Oct 59.3
Nov 59.9
Dec 37.8 -> injury month
Jan 59.2
Feb 62.1
Feb 71.7
I know you can’t do this kind of cherrypicking, but here’s what happens to his #s when you exclude December:
TS 60.9
3p% 45.4
FG% 48.3
FT% 84.3
per 36 = 17.8 points (on 12.2 FGA), 5 rebounds, 2.9 assists
FTA/FGA = 0.46
this kid is a special scorer. his defense is pretty bad, and I wish he passed the ball a bit more, but at this level of efficiency it’s hard to complain…
And he hasn’t even started to really shoot 3’s yet. 3 3PA/36 is so few in today’s NBA.
@3 – wow. I was sleeping on the fact that Trier has such nice shooting percentages.
Brian and Bruno, I did not say the model doesn’t work. I said the model will be hard for *us* to execute because our roster is so bad. And that there is another model that might be easier for us to duplicate.
To make the two max player idea work, we’re doing mental gymnastics to talk ourselves into notions that are crazy, like:
– De’Andre Jordan will sign for the room exception
– Allonzo Trier and Damyean Dotson will be able to give a contender 40+ minutes of positive basketball at the 2 guard position
– we can draft a forward that isn’t Zion and insert him into the starting lineup next to Durant.
The two-max model would work just fine if we had drafted Donovan Mitchell and Mikal Bridges. It’s not the model. It’s matching the model to what we have and what we can likely acquire. Like the rockets, we’ll be forced to pick vet min guys and cast offs. It’s not easy to pull off.
The guys I specifically mentioned we should acquire, Danny Green and Robert Covington, absolutely provide surplus value on their contracts. DeAndre Jordan probably would, too, depending on what you sign him for.
@6
But we can still sign a Danny Green, with the exception, just like the Rockets signed PJ Tucker. The Rockets roster before getting Paul was also not good, obviously they had Ariza and Gordon, which helps, and it’s unlikely that in the first years Trier or Dotson will produce like them.
If Mitch develops to the level of Capela, which seems likely at the moment, we’re not that far away.
Trier is like a non-playmaking Steph Curry is a pretty interesting way to look at him
Question: If we landed Durant, would taking on Mike Conley make sense, especially if he came with a draft asset or two? Does he have any market value or would Memphis have to include an asset to dump his salary?
I think he’s almost as good as Kyrie and a better risk for 2 years @ $30-34 mill rather than 4-5 years @ $30-40+ mill.
Trier has a long way to go before I would compare him in any way to Steph Curry.
KD is so through with GSW after the playoffs….
Danny Green will be 32 this offseason and plays for a contender that will have his full Bird Rights. Robert Covington is signed until 2022. It’s quite telling that this almost amounts to an exhaustive list of the good mid-tier free agency contracts, and they’re both players we have no chance of acquiring unless we want to do some really stupid stuff.
I agree that Jordan will not sign for the room exception. Vonleh is a more likely candidate for the room.
And I’d still take that team over a team with KD and a smattering of mid-level free agents. Mid-level free agents are the worst. As thenoblefacehumper points out, the handful of decent mid-level guys out there are likely not available anyways. The mid-level is typically the worst value contract in the league. It’s what you spend after you already have a good team. It makes no sense to pass up Kyrie Irving to try to spend his money on multiple mid-level guys.
An extremely realistic roster for next season with just the current roster, before getting into the vet minimum guys that would come to play with KD and Irving would be:
Irving/Smith Jr./Allen
Trier/Dotson/Frank
Durant/Knox/#1 draft pick
Room Exception Vonleh/Ellensen (Presumably Durant will play a lot of 4, as well)
Robinson/Kornet
That’s probably a #4 seed in the East in Year one. Then you can start using the mid-level exception the following year and hope that the #1 draft pick from this past season develops more in his second season.
And that’s without adding any interesting vet minimum guys. That’s just guys who are already on the team, plus KD and Irving!
He’s four and a half years older than Kyrie, though. And I think his injury history is just as scary as Kyrie’s injury history. I mean, I guess if Memphis really did attach draft assets, it could be interesting, but wouldn’t it be a pretty weird thing to attach draft assets when you’re getting rid of your best veteran player? Since that likely means you’re going to be worse and thus the draft assets would be valuable. Conley still has some value out there. Utah was willing to acquire him for Rubio. They just weren’t willing to include more than just Rubio.
If the Knicks are blessed enough to land both Kyrie and KD to go along with Mitch, they will be a 50+ win team with a bright future. This year’s #1 should be top 5 even if we don’t get the golden ticket and we have a plethora of #1 picks moving forward.
The team hasn’t been in that good a spot since the early 70’s. And there isn’t a single stand out team moving forward……
@14
Yeah, you add a guy like Barrett or Clarke to that roster and it honestly looks pretty good. It’s short on depth, obviously, but you can add at least 2 more veteran minimum guys at PF and SG and it becomes a lot better.
Let’s say we add two guys who should be available for cheap next offseason, Wayne Ellington and Kyle O’Quinn, or Taj Gibson for the exception and Seth Curry. Suddenly you have a 8 man rotation that can most definitely compete with anyone in the east. The Warriors themselves have taken a lot of value from guys like David West, Zaza Pachulia, Javale McGee, guys you can find anywhere who would be interested in the Knicks in this scenario.
Brian it’s an interesting idea. Kyrie is younger, probably a bit better (did he get better on defense after leaving Cleveland or did the Celtics use him better?), but his injury history makes a long term deal more risky.
But what if I told you PER likes Trier?
If Knox and Kornet are part of the rotation for the Knicks next year, that’s a bad sign.
Agreed, that’s why you would hope to get lucky on the vet minimum market. But even if they whiffed on the vet minimum market and were stuck with Knox and Kornet as rotation players, the team still looks like a #4 seed level team, especially if Kawhi leaves Toronto and Boston doesn’t replace Kyrie with anyone special.
Kornet is pretty decent and costs no money. That’s exactly the sort of player you want in your rotation if you’re switching to a stars and scrubs model.
If we do get KD and Kyrie then Knox has to go. I don’t trust Fizdale to keep his draft crush on the bench.
Oh yeah, that’s what I like about the current roster is that some of the cheap Knicks guys like Dotson and Kornet fit well into the stars and scrubs model. However, I also think it is fair to note that the team would probably be better off with a vet minimum or room exception guy starting over Kornet, but even if he was the only back up big, I think the team would still be a good team.
I think Kornet is riding a hot shooting streak. If/when his 3p% drops you have a 7ft tall player with no value who grabs the same number of rebounds as Knox.
Great as a third string, not as a backup to Mitch who still fouls out in 18 min. That’s 30 min of Kornet.
It does seem likely that they would look to package Knox and Frank for a veteran, but that’s a whole extra level of speculation, ya know?
Tonight’s ultra-tank starting lineup:
Knox
Mudiay
Thomas
Ellenson
Hezonga
Beat that, Phoenix!
That’s not seriously the lineup for tonight, is it?
No, just fantasizing (-:
It’s just Skip Bayless and Chris Broussard, but….
they’re gonna go to the Lakers
Ha! That’d certainly be a sight to see!
Well, we played Steve Novak on our last good team, so if Kornet can hit some threes and block a shot here and there, he can be a 9th or 10th guy off the bench. Backup veteran bigs are the easiest thing to find, just get O’Quinn back or go for someone like Ed Davis, Amir Johnson, Kosta Koufos, there’s plenty of options out there.
Finding room for a guy like DeAndre Jordan wouldn’t be difficult. To me, it’s as simple as adding DSJr, Knox, and Ntilikina to a AD-to-LA trade and taking back Josh Hart or Kyle Kuzma. With the excess money, you can begin to field a competitive offer for DJ
I still think everything depends on the draft. If we get lucky and pick #1, do you really think KD and Kyrie don’t come here to team with Zion? And if they don’t, do we care?
Even picking 2/3 should still work out. Less certain about 4. But yeah, Brian, I think if we pick 5, it’s really not good, with tons of potential for failure and continued suckitude.
It’s still better than #6! 🙂
You guys, Durant is old and Kyrie injury prone. The team you fantasize on is Melo and Amare all over again, albeit without gutting the roster. I hope they do go to LA and the Knicks continue to rebuild.
LOL if Chris Brousard says Kyrie and KD aren’t going to the Knicks then all but a done deal they’ll be in blue and orange next season.
Wut?
Melo was never half the player KD, an all-time great, is. And Kyrie has bad knees, but Amar’e was literally uninsurable.
Not to mention “not gutting the team” is not a minor part of the equation!!
Rama Durant will be 31 before next year starts. Have you heard about aging? His numbers are already in decline.
The amount KD needs to decline to play on Melos level is limited to cases of severe injury.
Considering the lack of talent on the Knicks for the better part of the last 20 years, I’d take the chance on signing KD and Kyrie even with their risks. I don’t think it’s going to happen, but if it did at least there would be a huge upgrade in talent and enjoyability of watching games. It would be worth the risk as both of those guys can obviously play.
Re Trier, I watched him a lot in college and he has definitely improved this year. You can’t ask for much more from a rookie, especially an undrafted one. I hope they keep him and he gets better and can that 6th man off the bench that brings a spark and some scoring. Too bad he’s 23 and almost done.
KD is a no-brainer Hall Of Famer who plays a high-IQ brand of ball, and Kyrie is 26 and very productive. I’m generally a “true rebuild” advocate but I’d be pretty excited to watch some meaningful games instead of worrying about whether Kadeem Allen is going to have a hot shooting night and ruin our tank. I mean that might be a breath of fresh air.
Yeah, come on. This is what I was saying about some of you guys severely understating the talent of these two guys. Durant has been a top 5 MVP player for about 10 years now, and Kyrie Irving is better than Melo ever was. Obviously there’s concerns and nothing is ever guaranteed when it comes to production and player’s health, but they’re so far ahead of Melo and Amare in terms of actual production, and the team would not be traded in its entirety to get one of them.
The entirety of Durant’s statistical decline this season has been because he is shooting .357 on 3s, which is .030 under his career average. His rebounding, assists, FTr, turnovers, 2p%, everything else is in line with his regular production from the last couple of seasons with some variance here and there. I’m more inclined to say it’s noise than it is a sign of real decline. If his free throw rate or other peripheral stats were declining heavily I would accept that he’s in the decline phase, but it really doesn’t seem to be the case.
You think offering a two year contract to Danny Green at his current salary is “really stupid stuff”? Or that we “have no chance” of getting him to leave Toronto to finish his career in his hometown if we over him a competitive salary because they have his bird rights? And that last part means you think Masai is going to way overpay Danny Green just bc he can?
Nonsense. You were probably one of those people who spent the year telling me “no free agent in his right mind would ever consider playing here!” before it became obvious that we’ll be given serious consideration by pretty much every major free agent.
I think the level of player we’re going to be forced to accept is going to be a lot worse than Green. Green is at least going to be a full MLE guy (> $8mm).
Durant’s WS was 19.2(!) in his peak, 2013/14. It was 14.5 four years ago, and went to 12, 10.4, and 9.2 so far this season. The pace this year is actually a step up from last year, so maybe it flattens the trend.
I know this is not a linear calculation and I’m sure WS has flaws, but let’s say he’s worth 10 wins next year, and Kyrie another 9 (his WS is 8.9, 8.9m, 7.7 so far this year.). That’s 19 wins between the two of them. The roster we have now is probably good for 2o wins at best, and if Mitch improves like we hope he does and gets more minutes maybe 25.
So the ceiling for the fantasy team is 44 wins, with a downward trend from Durant given his age. Personally this doesn’t excite me that much.
I agree with everything you’re saying Brian.
A realistic scenario is the #4 seed and maybe the second round.
But we’re hoping for two peak Durant years. I wouldn’t throw one away and hope we can come up with better solutions for his second. I’d rather go all in on the two years and have kids plus cap space and draft picks ready to step in by year 3.
@46
Are you sure? Gerald Green is by pretty much all measures playing worse this year than he did last season, and in the last offseason he re-signed for the minimum with the Rockets. I really don’t think there’s a market where Gerald Green ever comes close to a 8 million average salary, even if we count that he gave Houston a hometown discount.
To be honest, I don’t know why we’d want to offer 32 year old Danny Green half of what we could be spending on 26 year old Kyrie Irving in the first place. That’s kind of everyone else’s point–you have a shot at finding Danny Green level production on the cheap. You have absolutely no chance at finding Kyrie Irving production on the cheap.
However, yes, I think Masai would absolutely do whatever it took to keep an essential part of his contending team, which could potentially push his contract in to the $15M+ AAV range. We don’t really have a way of knowing at the moment but I’m somewhat befuddled we’re even talking about this.
Actually, thinking more about it, knowing how messed up KD’s way of thinking is, he might actually like a narrative of “Lebron couldn’t save the Lakers, but KD can!” I doubt it, but I also have no real clue what’s up with KD’s brain.
On a complete tangent, how amazing is it that the Cavs beat the Warriors for an NBA title in part due to an excellent defensive stand by…Kevin Love?!?
Pairing him with Irving is going all in! There’s no scenario where mid-level free agent signings are going to put the Knicks in a better position to win in the short term then Irving.
Somebody somewhere must really know something for this Kyrie and KD to NY stuff to be taken so much for granted. I mean, two guys collectively leaving $100+ million on the table to sign with a franchise that has been a laughing stock for most of the last 20 years is a pretty big leap. And it’s not even like “if NY gets the #1 pick, we can send it out for AD and then get the other two.”
Mike
Our mans Iseman saying Kidd is at practice today talking to DSJ and Mudd.
Jordan starting tonight too.
Does Irving and Durant make us guaranteed title contenders? Nope. Cause NOTHING IN LIFE IS GUARANTEED!
But would it make us a very good team for the next 3 or 4 years? A team that wins 50ish games, makes the playoffs and probably wins at least one series a year? Yup. Would that be fun as hell? Double yup.
I get it. The goal is the win a championship. But this mentality of championship or bust is really myopic in my opinion. We won’t know how good a team of Durant and Irving plus our kids and draft picks will be UNTIL THEY START PLAYING GAMES.
The thing is. If we draft a top 5 pick, keep most of our young players we currently have and just outright sign those 2 guys, we will be positioned well to compete immediately but also our young players can get better and we’ll have our first round picks plus the additional Dallas picks to keep adding to the mix. Maybe we trade some of the young guys (Frank/Knox) to add another good starter to the mix but as long as we don’t trade away all of our youth and picks, we can be positioned to compete with Irving and Durant and hopefully keep competing once their contracts are up.
The thing is that Danny Green is simply more valuable to Toronto than he would be to the Durant only Knicks. They’re at the level where a Danny Green type of player fits their roster and plugs the holes they have, which is the price you pay when you’re a contender with a solid team and have to resign yourself to paying players their actual value (or overpaying for production that you need desperately).
If the Knicks are not planning to contend immediately, the Danny Greens’ of the world are the guys we literally should not pursuit, as they won’t be a part of the core of the team but also won’t provide extra value on their contracts due to limited production, age and other constraints.
That’s what we’ve been arguing all the time, you either go all in for mega stars and hope they’re good enough to carry you, or you keep assets and cap space and make moves around it. Unless you can sign 6 Danny Greens somehow, which is in my opinion a lot more difficult than the other two options.
@56
That’s another crucial difference. The Knicks have all their picks and now the Dallas picks. Part of the issues Houston has had with replenishing their support cast is because they’ve had no picks, because they had to use some of them to get rid of past mistakes, and all the other guys they picked were traded for Paul.
It’s not just Durant and Irving plus the kids, it’s them plus this years high draft pick plus 6 projected first rounders in the next 4 years.
That series really defined LeBron’s legacy. If Draymond doesn’t get suspended, if Curry scores on Love and if Kyrie doesn’t make the clutchest shot of his life, the Cavs lose, Lebron is 2-6 in Finals and he probably doesn’t leave Cleveland.
When you look at KDs numbers you also have to remember the team he’s playing on right now. With less superstars around him his numbers would likely be higher with more usage. You just would have to see if his efficiency holds.
Oh god. Again. Down the rabbit hole we go. Dammit.
This, plus the advantage of signing them outright means we don’t have to dump literally everything to put the team together. Some future left to continue to build with would be pretty great, considering KD’s age and Irving’s past injuries.
Now 8-10 is half of 32. If you’re not going to read the posts maybe don’t comment on how preposterous they are.
If anything, the smart use of those Dallas picks should be to parlay (trade) Knox into a useful young player.
sort of basketball related, but, nice story about a young lady breaking into the NBA 2k esport league:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/chiquita-evans-is-a-trailblazer-as-the-first-black-woman-drafted-in-the-nba-2k-league/amp/
gotta love that name – chiquita evans 🙂
Why is Masai going to let Danny Green walk for $8-$10M AAV? Because he owes us one for the Melo and Bargnani trades?
That’s the whole debate we’re having, though.
I don’t see how a team that needs to allocate > 60% of its playoff minutes to some combination of Dotson, Trier, Vonleh, Kornet, Knox, Frank, and a rookie not named Zion doesn’t get figured out very quickly in the playoffs, even with two guys as brilliant as KD & Kyrie.
We’re spending 10,000 words to say “two stars & scrubs or one star and a gang of solid two way players?”
At this stage as long as we don’t do something monumentally daft like max Kemba and Harris, or any of the other combinations, I will be happy with whichever method being debated as long as it means I can stop cheering for losses and start being enthused about winning again.
The mid-tier free agent that represents good value really is just about extinct. You thought of exactly two, one of which is signed for 3 more years, and the other is 32 and playing for a team that can almost definitely keep him if they’re so inclined.
Keep in mind that ~.150 WS48 players decline and become ~.100 or lower WS48 players. Players like Durant and Irving decline into .~150 WS48 players. That’s partially why this phenomenon has taken place. Don’t nobody want no Courtney Lee.
Again, you can get a little lucky and find your own Danny Green on the cheap. I think there’s a very good chance a Trier/Dotson platoon gives you much better production per dollar than 32 year old Danny Green’s next contract does, for example.
@55 – Is Kidd teaching them how to be a great point guard but a terrible person?
That’s what I was saying last game – you can’t underrate Trier’s production: it’s really good. As Frank pointed out, he had that one awful month, which probably not coincidentally was the month he came back from a hamstring injury. I think the Trier we’re seeing in all the other months is the real Trier. If that’s correct, we have excellent, efficient production from what is basically a 2 guard at a very low cost. If he weren’t terrible on D, we would be excited about him as about Robinson.
I have no idea whether he’ll get better on D, but he is already a good player – and at that price, excellent. Who cares if he’s 23 and he doesn’t get much better?
As for Dotson, I am less sure, as a good part of his value is D and rebounding. His rebounding has suffered at times this year, and it’s hard to gauge how good the D is when the team is so bad, But assuming those are mild plusses, then it’s just a question of his spot-up shooting on offense, which has been inconsistent, but again, for the price, very good.
I for one would be totally fine with those two guys as our SG platoon. Even if they only amounted to league average, that would be fantastic at a total of 40% of league average cost.
Just curious to see what everyone here thinks, if only 1 thing happens this summer for the Knicks what would you hope it would be: draft Zion, sign KD, sign Kyrie, trade for AD
I would assume it would be draft Zion but then the fear is what they would do with the cap space if KD and Kyrie don’t come here.
I love the idea of us suddenly being competitive next year and winning 45 to 50 games, and, possibly one or two playoff series…
I just don’t believe that’s a very realistic expectation to have…too many things would need to fall perfectly in to place…which would be very not knicksy…
I’m hoping we land a draft pick one through 3, sign some decent value players to add to the roster, get some development from a few of our young players and reach the rarified air of 30 to 40 wins next year…
@73
Zion. He and MitchRob would constitute a homegrown pair on par with Simmons/Embiid. You can build around these guys with trades since they are modestly paid for the next few years.
Draft Zion. Take our chances on signing AD the following summer. Mitch/AD/Zion. Nobody scores in the paint on us.
Yeah, I’d say draft Zion over any of the max guys alone. I’m totally convinced he’ll be very productive at an early age and there’s no way to pass up this kind of potential in a 19 year old under team control for so long.
In second place, I’d probably say Durant still, as I don’t think the strategy of building around him alone is bad per se, I just think it’s hard to execute properly and carries a lot of risk. Then Irving alone, and then trade for AD alone which then yes, could lead to a Melo like situation albeit with a much better player in his prime, so even that wouldn’t be a disaster.
That’s what makes me hopeful, there are many combinations of options that are good or at least not bad, which is more than we can say about any group of potential outcomes we’ve had to deal in a long time. The only real terrible one is giving max contracts to undeserving players, plus a bad pick this year, and even that would leave us with a watchable team with some upside for the future.
Game thread?
Boy, this is some ugly ass basketball.
These teams stink!
Booker looks like he wants to be a Knick.
Sad for him.
Knox just funneled Booker to the rim when Jordan was still on the perimeter
LOL and the Lakers couldn’t beat these bums?
Lebron is cooked over there in LA.
Knox is so bad, will get 30 min, and we still might blow them out.
Best part of trading for DSJ is that should guarantee Mudiay doesn’t return.
Mudiay is a real hog for a PG.