[Newsday Sports] On the first day of training camp, #Knicks coach David Fizdale assured those who have been starters that nothing is assured and for the newcomers, there are no limits | @StevePopper https://nwsdy.li/2DwtR09 pic.twitter.com/MQ3YrEoVF9 (Tuesday, September 25, 2018 7:56:03 PM)
On the first day of training camp, #Knicks coach David Fizdale assured those who have been starters that nothing is assured and for the newcomers, there are no limits | @StevePopper https://nwsdy.li/2DwtR09 pic.twitter.com/MQ3YrEoVF9
[Newsday Sports] Injured #Knicks star Kristaps Porzingis comes to first day of training camp and lends a hand | @StevePopper https://nwsdy.li/2QYLWXm pic.twitter.com/O7Pns0jQlb (Tuesday, September 25, 2018 7:24:03 PM)
Injured #Knicks star Kristaps Porzingis comes to first day of training camp and lends a hand | @StevePopper https://nwsdy.li/2QYLWXm pic.twitter.com/O7Pns0jQlb
[NYDN] Nobody is guaranteed a starting spot on David Fizdale’s #Knicks roster right now. Every player will have to work for it, including their top draft pick: https://nydn.us/2Oby2CI @SBondyNYDNpic.twitter.com/XKDeynKEtv (Wednesday, September 26, 2018 9:30:08 AM)
Nobody is guaranteed a starting spot on David Fizdale’s #Knicks roster right now. Every player will have to work for it, including their top draft pick: https://nydn.us/2Oby2CI @SBondyNYDN pic.twitter.com/XKDeynKEtv
[NYDN] We found him! #Knickspic.twitter.com/1fSI3mvRiE (Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:50:12 PM)
We found him! #Knicks pic.twitter.com/1fSI3mvRiE
[NYDN] David Fizdale’s attempt at reconciliation fails as Joakim Noah is absent from @nyknicks practice https://nydn.us/2DsjGte @SBondyNYDNpic.twitter.com/Kng4ST36Jl (Tuesday, September 25, 2018 6:17:12 PM)
David Fizdale’s attempt at reconciliation fails as Joakim Noah is absent from @nyknicks practice https://nydn.us/2DsjGte @SBondyNYDN pic.twitter.com/Kng4ST36Jl
[NYDN] New @nyknicks coach David Fizdale says all 5 starting spots are up for grabs https://nydn.us/2DtF55x @SBondyNYDNpic.twitter.com/G5J0cq8hKO (Tuesday, September 25, 2018 5:21:02 PM)
New @nyknicks coach David Fizdale says all 5 starting spots are up for grabs https://nydn.us/2DtF55x @SBondyNYDN pic.twitter.com/G5J0cq8hKO
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 11:28:41 AM)
SEPTEMBER 25: The Knicks have officially signed Walker, the team announced today (via Twitter). New York now has a full 20-man camp roster. SEPTEMBER 19: After playing for the Knicks during the Summer League in July, former Morehouse standout Tyrius Walker is joining New York on an Exhibit 10 contract, according to his agency You […]
[NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Can LeBron James Bring Back Showtime in Year 1? Don’t Bet Against Him (Tuesday, September 25, 2018 4:18:01 PM)
With an unproven Lakers lineup around him, James faces a tough uphill climb to the playoffs in Los Angeles.
(Wednesday, September 26, 2018 10:11:19 AM)
Timberwolves G Jimmy Butler reportedly has a new top trade destination in the Miami Heat.
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 8:37:33 PM)
New Knicks head coach David Fizdale has yet to reveal his starting five. In fact, all five starting jobs are up for grabs.
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 3:07:39 PM)
Vince Carter stole a pass from France, who was trying to run in transition. And what he did after the steal made everyone watching drop their jaw.
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 11:07:14 AM)
He is rumored to be the Knicks’ top target in free agency next offseason, but PG Kyrie Irving seems to be loyal to the Celtics for now.
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 11:05:07 AM)
Knicks rookie Mitchell Robinson thinks 29 teams slept on him in the Draft, and he now has one of his teammates comparing him to all-time great Shaquille O’Neal.
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 11:46:16 AM)
The Knicks announced Tuesday they signed G Tyrius Walker.
(Wednesday, September 26, 2018 1:11:48 AM)
As David Fizdale’s first training-camp practice as Knicks head coach ended Tuesday, Kristaps Porzingis ran from the sidelines and joined the group huddle. That wasn’t seen near the end of last season, when Porzingis stayed away from ex-coach Jeff Hornacek and teammates after suffering a catastrophic ACL tear on Feb. 6 against Milwaukee. Now, Porzingis…
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 2:46:27 PM)
Rookie center Mitchell Robinson continues to prove to teammates and the Knicks coaching staff he’s not raw and he’s not a project. It’s too early to label him the steal of the 2018 draft after being taken by the Knicks at No. 36 overall in the second round, but it may go down that way….
(Tuesday, September 25, 2018 12:08:29 PM)
Knicks coach David Fizdale conducted his first official practice and created a frenzy with a message to his team. For Monday’s preseason opener in Washington, he has no starters yet. Fizdale told the players he will evaluate them this week to determine those spots against the Wizards. His first official mantra, Fizdale observed, caused “a…
41 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.09.26)”
Pat Riley is a clueless GM. His team is a bunch of misfits with zero all-stars on it and Goran “I always get hurt” Dragic as their best player. Obviously, he should tank and get draft picks because that’s the right way to do it. He needs to learn how to be patient like Perry and Steve instead of making a trade for Jimmy Butler. He knows nothing.
Porzingis’ games played will be much more impactful than Lee’s minutes or Lance’s minutes or anything else when it comes to tanking. If he comes back the minute he’s ready, then tries to play through the inevitable re-aggravation of his injury, we’ll know this front office is thinking short term like every other Knicks front office since the dawn of time. If he’s ready to play but they hold him out another few weeks to make sure he’s 101%, that’s a good sign. If they hold him out for precautionary reasons when he re-aggravates the injury, that’s a good sign. Those are subtle tank moves that smart front offices do all the time with injured players. Let’s see if Perry and Mills know how to accept an easy gift.
Definitely Reub
Pat Riley has actually made a ridiculous number of poor decisions in the post LeBron era. In classic Pat Riley fashion, it looks like he’s about to somehow get bailed out of a few of them and acquire a top 10-15 player in the process.
This is from the last thread, about Courtney Lee:
To which I have to say NO. No no no no no no no no no no.
Courtney Lee’s value to the Knicks is NEGATIVE. Getting literally nothing in return for Courtney Lee would improve the Knicks’ situation. The production he gives the Knicks is less than worthless, it is actually detrimental. He hurts the tank AND he takes minutes from younger players. And as an added bonus he takes up $12M in 2019-2020 cap room.
I would trade him in one minute for some ultra-heavily protected second rounder that would never actually be conveyed, like a second rounder that was top 59 protected until 2020 and then disappears or something.
wait…..what did Pat Riley do?
Reub knew the value of one liners and was funny at times. What we’re up against now is the chatty cousin.
@5
Yeah, that’s the way I see it too. If you value his mentorship abilities so much hire him as an assistant coach. Courtney Lee has been given away as filler for trades 5 times already, and that’s when he was on his physical prime and had small, 5 million deals. We’re not actually talking about a good two-way player, we’re taking about Courtney Lee, a guy who would be the 7th or 8th player on a playoff contender. Don’t even get me started on Lance Thomas, the one guy in the NBA who can play 20 minutes while having literally zero impact and get paid 7 million a year because he hits 40 threes per season out of 100 attempts.
I’m on board with the “trade Lee and Thomas for a bag of balls” concept too. Freeing up cap space is a win for this team. Toss in Ron Baker too.
As far as others on the roster, I love Kanter and would want to resign him at the right price. He’s only 26 and entering his prime. No, he’s not a Ewing or Reed, but he rebounds and can score off of put-backs. THJr is also young and he can shoot some. Maybe he can be a part of the solution. I’m just not sold yet.
And what’s the deal with the Noah buyout that was imminent?
I would re-sign Kanter for two years at around the mid-level exception (i.e. ~$16mm over two years). I think he’ll want more.
Kanter is the only veteran on the team I like, and I don’t think he’s a bad fit next to KP overall. He’s a bad defensive fit because he can’t guard 4s and can’t guard the pick and roll at all, but he’s a pretty great fit offensively because of the rebounding and play inside.
The issue is that he’ll probably get bigger offers. If we didn’t have Lee or Hardaway or the remaining of Noah’s contract stretched I would be fine re-signing him, but paying 15 million more for him plus all this dead money already on the roster is too much for me. Unless he accepts a below market offer of something like 8 million a year, it’s too much money.
Stefan Bondy @SBondyNYDN
Early stab at opening night lineup: Burke, Hardaway, Hezonja, Thomas, Kanter. …Kevin Knox can certainly change minds in preseason.
This tweet made me more optimistic about the tank despite not providing me with any new information. I mean just look at those fuckin’ names. Together in one (starting) lineup. It’s incredible.
Even though they’re playing Atlanta, we may see a 50 point first quarter by the Hawks.
Final score: 145-135.
Reub was about as funny as Dwight Howard.
He is totes gonna create a burner account to comment about how he’s “still in our heads” which is pathetically hilarious for obvious reasons.
When I said you don’t give away Lee for less than he’s worth, I was suggesting that to move him now might require sweetening the deal. To that I say “no no no no no no no”. I say that not only because I don’t want to sweeten the deal, but because Lee is undervalued in the marketplace. If you move him, you will almost automatically lose the deal even assuming he useless to the Knicks.
Riley is using a method of team building that has no intrinsic advantage or disadvantage over what most people here want. (tanking). He views each player and pick as an asset with intrinsic value. Neither has an advantage over the other other than his ability to use it to make the team better. After every transaction, he wants to make the team better (just like Morey and others).
If Butler goes to the Heat, it’s hard for me to imagine Riley losing that deal. He’s going to wind up with much the best player, a better team for the next 5 years (assuming Butler signs back), and might even get rid of a semi bad contract. Ten minutes after that deal closes, he’ll be trying to make his next deal to move the team from mid level playoff team to contender in the east.
The Knicks learned the wrong lesson from the failures of the past. The lesson they learned was that it’s bad to trade draft picks. That’s only true if you gave up more value that you received back. The Knicks didn’t screw up because they traded draft picks. They screwed up because they gave up more value than they got back for those draft picks.
How many of our starters would be in the playoff rotation of a 50-win team? One? Maybe THJ and that’s it. As long as Porzingis is away, we are going to be awful. Which is great.
If Lee was on the open market and had to get a 2-year deal, he’d get something like 2 for $16. Right now he’s on a 2 for $24 deal. So if we can unload him for nothing, consider it a win.
If that means packaging him with Burke or Lance’s virtual expiring deal to sweeten the pot, no problem. In fact I would trade anybody not named Porzingis, Robinson, Knox or Ntilikina if it means getting rid of 2019-20 money.
Seconds after KP hit the floor I felt like I do when I realize I turned the wrong way on I-95 90 minutes ago (yes, plural). A season and a half of excruciatingly fun free basketball, lacking even an ephemeral wisp of illusory novelty. For you who are smart enough to moderate your pain, this is an especially shitty feeling for those of us who hate ourselves enough to watch 95pct plus of Knick minutes, even without win-now myopia.
But I’m half excited! Mainly for Robinson. But also for Knox (I didn’t want him and am still suspicious), because he’s an interesting kind of player who’s only like like ten years old so who knows. And for Frank the sequel. And for KP’s return (yep, I’m rooting for it this year). Even Burke and Hooper Mario and Baker are inherently more interesting to me than Lee and Jack and Lance (who seem likely to either be gone or play less eventually) even if they’re not long term assets. Genuine novelty wisps. And a new coach; I soured on Hornacek. Bring onthe 26 wins!
But I’ll miss KOQ. Bigs who can both pass and defend the rim are the real unicorns. Real unicorn, aren’t like five of you English teachers?
That’s the crux of the problem. The market is valuing him at 8 million (or thereabouts). I subjectively still think he’s worth 11 million or thereabouts based on how I personally feel about his contribution. That means we cannot unload him for nothing. But I have to qualify that. You can’t do it right now. Markets and conditions change.
No one is going to want Lance and I’m not giving up Burke just to move Lee.
I’m super excited about this team. It pains me to know we are 3-5 years away from being a serious team unless we add a couple of legitimate free agents stars that fit next year, but I’m willing to sit though a loooong rebuild if I like the players, like the coach, and like the way we are going to play. All three are a “yes” now.
I can’t even remember who I wanted to coach. I think it was Bud. But I couldn’t be happier with Fizdale right now. I love his optimism and energy so far. We’ll see what I’m saying 40 games into the season.
If Knox replaces Thomas that will probably be the 30th ranked defense in the NBA.
Let’s assume Miami is including Dragic in the talks, as Richardson, their best asset, has been rumored to not be involved. Assuming they get Butler and Dieng for a pick, Dragic, and best case scenario Tyler Johnson’s contract, they will be locked with zero cap space into a core of Butler, Richardson, Dieng, Whiteside, Olynyk and James Johnson until the end of 2021, with Dion Waiters, whoever PG they eventually find and presumably a re-signed Justise Winslow in the picture as well.
This team is a 5th seed in the east and would struggle mightily to even get to the playoffs in the west. Then after 2021 Whiteside is either gone or re-signed, Johnson, Waiters, Olynyk and Richardson are all still under contract plus the Winslow presumed extension and the Butler max deal. That surely adds to about 90~ something million on a season where the cap is projected to be about 118 million, so no space for another max. They could get there by dumping Waiters, Olynyk and whoever else they wish, but unless that one star is Kevin Durant they’re not competing for a title anytime soon, specially as in this scenario Butler would be entering his 32 year old season and probably declining at least somewhat.
So yeah, if you’re looking to build a perennial 2nd round playoff exit team, I love Riley’s strategy.
Of course he can make more trades and turn his team around, but let’s not talk as if the guy who gave Tyler Johnson, Dion Waiters, Hassan Whiteside, Kelly Olynyk and James Johnson a combined 86 million is immune to errors.
Strat, Burke isn’t signed next year. That lessens the upside of keeping him, because he’ll have to get paid too. I like Burke; I think his play is 90% sustainable, and that’s a great backup PG, and one who would work well with Frank’s strengths and limitations. But as an asset…questionable, as the team-friendly deal shortly expires.
So, yeah, if it took Burke to move Lee, I’d do it in a second. I like Lee as a player; I think he’s league average, but not on a terrible contract, and able to deal with the awfulness that so often is the NY Knicks with a good deal of grace. But his contract goes one year too long for us, so he’s got to go. Not at the cost of a high draft pick, but Burke? ‘Fraid so.
I love that Fiz is saying all spots are open.
I love that KP came to practice, even if he’s months away from playing.
I love that Fiz invited Noah, even if Noah didn’t come. In terms of narrative, that may make it easier for the Knicks not to stretch him until it suits the cap better and there’s a reason.
I love that we have lots of promising kids. They may all amount to nothing…but I doubt it. MRob is going to be fun to watch, at the very least.
ouch
@22 You are starting with the assumption that’s he’s incapable of making any other deals, signings, or drafts that make the team better along the way.
A week ago everyone would have said he’s in a terrible position with a capped out team that barely made the playoffs last year. Now he may land the best two way SG in the league and move up the ranks quickly.
That’s what happens with smart teams. You look at them and wonder how they are going to get from point A to point B. They do it one step at a time as the market offers opportunities.
He may never get there. There are 30 other teams trying to get there. Only a few of them will get the job done. That doesn’t mean the strategy wasn’t sensible. Some teams are trying to rebuild primarily the draft. Many of them won’t get there either but one of them might.
@23
I really like Burke as a backup PG. I’d like to keep him as long as we can at a price that makes sense. I don’t see much point in going out and signing someone else. We are going to need a backup PG one way or the other and we are going to have to pay him.
Finally, an ex-Knick comes to the defense of Brett Kavanaugh:
“I went out with him all the time. He never blacked out. Never even close to blacked out,” said Dudley, a Yale classmate of Kavanaugh’s. “There was drinking, and there was alcohol. Brett drank, and I drank. Did he get inebriated sometimes? Yes. Did I? Yes. Just like every other college kid in America.”
Dudley went on to add: “The crazy thing was that no matter how much Brett drank, he could still make free throws, and while he’d shoot he’d be like ‘Chris, man, if you’re gonna be white in the NBA, you gotta hit your free throws. Remember the fundamentals: B-E-E-F. Stop embarrassing yourself out there’”.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2018/09/25/ea5e50d4-c0eb-11e8-9005-5104e9616c21_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c8b9903c48f8
This is that wonderful time of the year when every NBA team is 0-0 and every team (well maybe not the Hawks or the Kings) is brimming with optimism.
I know we’re gonna suck big time this year, but the exciting things are the unknowns – what do we have in Knox, is Mitch Rob really the 2nd coming of DeAndre Jordan, will Frank develop an offense, is Trey Burke the real deal? All young players, and that’s all I ask, give me some young players to watch and root for.
No more half ass rebuilds with the likes of Aaron Afflalo and Derrick Williams. What a complete waste the Phil Jackson years were.
folks…Pat Riley is a legend when it comes to all things basketball & the art of fighting wars. Straight stud and easy on the eyes too. God father of tampering…sent Dolan a fax and told him I quit. Stick your contract… Got Alonzo, Shaq, Timmy Sr. Leonard, Bosh, LBJ, Ray Allen and others without getting caught…drafted Wade. Found CBA/D-League guys like Mason, Starks, Whiteside, Johnson, etc…
@25
I literally said just that, Rama quoted what I said on the very post before yours. Obviously he can turn this around and build a monstrous team with Butler, I’m not saying Riley is a Scott Layden or something. He has the track record of making stuff work.
But his track record post-LeBron Heat is garbage. He has overpaid mediocre players and built a roster that is old and entirely mediocre, except for Adebayo, which was a very good pick in my opinion, Winslow, who hasn’t shown anything in 3 years and Richardson which was a great find on the 2nd round but is a 3 and D point forward with a limited ceiling.
You can believe that now he’ll make the right moves, but the moves he has been making post-LeBron don’t give me any confidence he’ll build a championship team anytime soon. The last time he built one was because he had Dwayne Wade, the 5th overall pick in one of the strongest drafts ever and he happened to be best friends with one of the two best players ever.
Just saw this on film school…”New York was 14-8 in games started by Jack-Lee-THJ-KP-Kanter last”year. Sub Burke for Jack; a better Timmy and a taller beefier Frank. If KP returns with ~55 games left, picks up where he left off and Fiz is a difference maker then she should win ~40 and make playoffs.
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Reg Pat Riley. No hate but he delivers. He made our old 90s team competitive maybe our most competitive run in the last 2 decades..
Reg his Miami management, he won the Lebron sweepstakes and was able to bring some titles in Miami. Riley is someone who can be trusted to make a good decision.
Sending Dolan a fax to say “I quit” would be pretty awesome. But, sadly, Riles didn’t eschew email in a last moment work of irreverent performance art, or send it to Dolan, who in 1995 was in rehab at the Hazelden clinic in Center City, Minnesota.
Instead, he faxed it to Dave Checketts in what was, boringly, just the fastest way possible to give his two-seconds notice.
I had no problem with the Whiteside deal, especially in the context of that FA season. If anything, Riley should be dinged for not locking him up as soon as he put up those numbers in ~1100 MP in 2014-15. Buy low? Nah, let’s give him a UFA deal during the craziest, stupidest July in league history.
The rest of those contracts are indefensible. Bosh got something like 5/$118M at age 30. Tyler Johnson? 4/$50M. Same for Olynyk.
But the cherry on top of the shit sundae was definitely Dion Waiters. As soon as that deal hit, I knew that Pat Riley had no fucking clue what he was doing. Here’s a guy who shouldn’t even be in the league — at all, like not as a 12th man, not even an NBDL player — and he gets $52M over 4. For what? Who? Why? How comes it? I do not understand how this is the thing that happened in real life.
By the end of 2020, Dion Waiters will have been paid about $65M to play NBA basketball and will only be 29 years old. And that is how we know that Pat Riley is a hack and there is no justice in this world.
Speaking of which, Riley will probably give Justise 4/$50M too.
Winslow is a guy I loved coming out of college and who has spent 3 seasons not really getting better at anything. I’m not sure how you figure out who those guys are going to be.
I don’t think Winslow is a bad player, he’s just unbelievably bad at shooting. He’s a decent rebounder, has a good handle, is a good defender, he just can’t shoot at all. He’s still 22, but he’s looking like the next Michael Kidd-Gilchrist for sure. I guess it’s a reminder that some guys who can’t shoot in college will never learn to do it on the pros, it’s not a sure thing that shooting will eventually develop.
Olynyk is actually a pretty good player- worth his 12m in a vacuum (2.2 vorp, top 30 rpm) but when you can get KOQ for peanuts, yeah he’s probably overpaid. Hardly a disaster though. Waiters on the other hand…
Pat Riley gets way too much credit for running an organization on South Beach and for Dwayne Wade’s relationship without LeBron James. Okay, so the Heat found Hassan Whiteside and Eric Spoelstra is a decent enough head coach. When Wade retires next year, the Heat will be terrible in short order and Mickey Arison will force Riley to retire.
I don’t think the Olynyk contract is even close to bad.
The Tyler Johnson contract doesn’t look like it’s going to turn out great but it won’t be a disaster; he’s a decent player. I thought it was a tough call at the time. Courtney signed a similar $ deal but evenly weighted. He’s produced 2.3 VORP and TJ is at 2.8. One of them is seven years older for the back half of their deals. I thought TJ at 23 had a modest chance of become a better player but he’s stayed around average.
I haven’t give up on Winslow yet. If you ask me Winslow or Will Barton for the next four years I don’t think it’s as easy a question as it looks like.
The Waiters deal was horrific from the minute it was signed and there’s no excusing it. And there was absolutely no reason to do it (i.e. a team on the cusp that has no other choice to improve or needs to keep someone like Lebron happy).
Similarly, the Whiteside deal was pretty questionable given the combination of almost uniquely inconsistent defensive intensity and what the league was starting to look like by 2016. In 2016, to be Tyson Chandler you really had to be peak Tyson Chandler. You can’t be whiny 2013-14 Tyson Chandler or your value plunges. Still, that was a somewhat tough call and nothing like the crazy Waiters deal.
James Johnson was at first a great signing — one of the most underrated players in the NBA. I wouldn’t have paid him 4/$60 because of his age. He has a chance to earn that contract because he’s still a good player, but it seems like a bad bet.
The Josh Richardson deal looks okay.
They weren’t good enough to give up two firsts for Dragic.
Overall I think Riley has done some good things and bad things but I would hate him as my GM these last few years because he looks like he is trying win the first six rounds of a fight to mediocristan like most Atlanta Hawk regimes. It could be he just believed in Whiteside too much but more likely he just doesn’t want to wait.