[SNY Knicks] Burke’s double-double not enough as Knicks fall to Nuggets (Thursday, January 25, 2018 11:51:13 PM)
Trey Burke had 18 points and 11 assists, but the Knicks dropped their third straight game with a 130-118 loss to the Nuggets.
[SNY Knicks] Frazier walks back Porzingis criticism, thought he was resting not injured (Thursday, January 25, 2018 11:40:44 PM)
Walt Clyde Frazier has walked back his critcism of Kristaps Porzingis for sitting out against the Warriors. Frazier thought the Latvian was resting, but he was injured.
[SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks at Nuggets, 9 p.m. (Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:20:29 PM)
The Knicks face the Nuggets in Denver at 9 p.m. on Thursday night.
[SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Is Kristaps Porzingis a soft player? (Thursday, January 25, 2018 5:43:41 PM)
The DNL panel debates if Kristaps Porzingis is a soft player after missing the Knicks’ against the Warriors.
[SNY Knicks] Walt Clyde Frazier demands more from Porzingis after sitting against Warriors (Thursday, January 25, 2018 5:45:21 PM)
Knicks legend and broadcaster Walt Clyde Frazier wasn’t too pleased that Kristaps Porzingis was unable to play against the Warriors on Tuesday.
[SNY Knicks] Joakim Noah to miss at least two games due to ‘personal reasons’ (Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:20:01 PM)
Knicks C Joakim Noah will miss at least the next two games due to personal reasons, the team announced Thursday.
[SNY Knicks] Beasley hopes to stay with Knicks: ‘I don’t want to move anymore’ (Thursday, January 25, 2018 9:10:47 AM)
Despite a long-time friend in Warriors star F Kevin Durant saying he’d love to play with Michael Beasley next season, the Knicks forward is content where he is now.
[NYTimes] Nuggets 130, Knicks 118: Porzingis Returns but Knicks Lose to Nuggets (Friday, January 26, 2018 5:03:54 AM)
Kristaps Porzingis was back on the court after a one-game absence but he fouled out in the fourth quarter of what had become a close game.
[NYTimes] Stephen Curry and LeBron James Reveal All-Star Rosters (Friday, January 26, 2018 12:44:04 AM)
As captains in the N.B.A.’s 2018 All-Star draft, Curry and James took turns picking from their fellow All-Stars from both conferences.
[NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Does an N.B.A. All-Star Draft Held in Private Make a Sound? (Friday, January 26, 2018 1:04:04 AM)
A novel approach to this year’s N.B.A. All-Star game, with captains picking the teams, was undermined in an effort to protect players’ feelings.
[NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis drafted by Team LeBron at All-Star Game (Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:59:52 PM)
Don’t tell Enes Kanter.
[NYDN] Amid Noah drama with Hornacek, Knicks lose another road game (Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:59:08 PM)
Joakim Noah’s controversial and disastrous run in New York took another odd turn on Thursday.
[NYDN] Jacob deGrom wants to sign long-term deal with Mets (Thursday, January 25, 2018 7:42:43 PM)
With his newly shorn hair, Jacob deGrom can wander around largely unnoticed, even back in New York City.
(Friday, January 26, 2018 1:02:11 AM)
DENVER — Kristaps Porzingis returned after a one-game injury absence, but not for long. Dogged by foul trouble, he was limited to 27 minutes and fouled out with 4:49 remaining in the fourth quarter as the Knicks fell to the Nuggets, 130-118, on Thursday night.
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:20:11 PM)
DENVER — There were no Ping-Pong balls and no live coverage. Kristaps Porzingis found out he had been selected to Team LeBron for the NBA All-Star Game by seeing it on a Knicks staffer’s phone on the court during warmups for Thursday night’s game against the Nuggets.
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:08:46 PM)
DENVER — Joakim Noah was not with the Knicks when they played the Nuggets on Thursday night because of what the team called “personal reasons.” The veteran center will not be with the team on Friday night, either, when the Knicks finish their seven-game road trip in Phoenix.
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:03:58 PM)
DENVER — The Knicks faced the Nuggets on Thursday night without Tim Hardaway Jr. The team decided to rest him for the first game of a back-to-back, with the finale of the road trip set for Friday in Phoenix.
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:54:59 PM)
DENVER — LeBron James is fan of the unicorn. The first draft to select sides for the All-Star Game came to fruition Thursday night, when James tabbed Kristaps Porzingis for the monster team he’s captaining. James also took Kevin Durant, who nicknamed Porzingis “The Unicorn’’ during the Knicks forward’s rookie year. James selected Porzingis and…
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:30:06 PM)
DENVER — At least there was Trey Burke. Certainly this is a season to develop rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina, but Knicks general manager Scott Perry is committed to seeing what he has in Burke, who is just 25 years old and may be a diamond in the rough. Burke’s fifth game as a Knick…
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 8:30:20 PM)
Knicks’ radio play-by-play man Ed Cohen explains how and when he landed the gig with The Post’s Justin Terranova. Cohen will make his debut on Knicks’ TV on MSG Network Friday night (9 p.m.) in Phoenix. Q: How did you work your way up to the Knicks’ job? A: Coming out of Ithaca (College), I…
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 6:41:59 PM)
DENVER — Joakim Noah left the Mile High City in a huff Thursday morning, and Kristaps Porzingis left the Pepsi Center court in a huff late in the fourth quarter after fouling out. The Knicks gave up 73 points in the first half to continue their defensive slippage out West and suffered another loss at…
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 4:59:14 PM)
DENVER — MSG Network broadcaster Walt Frazier told The Post his remarks to the Warriors radio station questioning Kristaps Porzingis not playing Tuesday against Golden State were made without knowing all the facts. Frazier was quoted on the Warriors’ pregame show saying Porzingis should have played, especially because it was the night he was voted to…
(Thursday, January 25, 2018 9:25:32 AM)
DENVER — Joakim Noah has left the Knicks indefinitely for what the team called “personal reasons.’’ Sources have indicated Noah is unhappy with his situation and the Golden State game Tuesday was the trigger point. One NBA source said Noah could be on a leave of absence for as long as a week. Noah has…
139 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.01.26)”
Surprisingly we’re only 6 games out of the 1st spot. The Luka Doncic dream isn’t dead yet.
I was pretty meh / down on the Trey Burke thing, but I have to say that he looks pretty good. Even defensively he is not noticeably terrible beyond just being small.
The stuff Perry has done on the margins has been pretty good between the Jack signing (FWIW he really was a stabilizing force in the first couple months), Beasley (who I think probably merits some consideration for being re-signed in the offseason), and Burke — especially Burke because he appears to be locked into a very team-friendly contract through the end of next season. The Melo trade is increasingly meh at this point, but at least it wasn’t actively damaging to the team (unless we extend/re-sign Kanter to anything but the most team-friendly contract).
What I can’t figure at all is why Jarrett Jack is still playing so many minutes. Let Frank play!
Re: Frank – it’s hard to know whether he is trying to get others involved so badly that he just isn’t looking for his shot even when he has one — but it actually seems he CAN get to the rim but just doesn’t want to try and finish there. He looks quicker now than I thought he was in the beginning of the year, but he still just seems to pass up layups/dunks in favor of tight interior passes. Hopefully he grows out of that.
btw – lost in this downturn has been how effective the offense has been. In the last 10 games we have the 5th best ORtg (110.1) and 2nd best eFG (55.7%) only behind GS. Unfortunately we cannot walk and chew gum at the same time as our DRtg is 2nd to last (112.9 tied with PHX, better only than…the Cavs).
I noticed that Clyde “apologized” about not realizing that KP missed the W game due to injury, which I don’t think he specified. Sounded forced to me, which would be horrible if true. Clyde is my all time idol.
KP could learn a lot from Jokic. And I did not see either enough lift from KP on at least 2 plays, or maybe just laziness. He shot a layup on a shot where he would normally dunk; on another play, he was blocked underneath.
btw – put me down on the side of trading Willy. I like him and he certainly is on a good contract, but he does not look to have the defensive IQ to overcome his relatively slow feet, and it is just so obvious that KP needs to play center at least half the time. If Willy can bring some reasonable return, backup centers are pretty easy to find for cheap, and increasingly easy to draft with later picks.
Reminder that KP+Frank+Hardaway as a 3 man lineup has a +35 net rating and 99th percentile ratings on both offense and defense. Yet they hardly ever play together.
It’s just difficult for me to see the Knicks being able to get fair value for Willy after removing him from the rotation in favor of Enes Kanter and Kyle O’Quinn. Seems like a prime buy-low opportunity for another team. If they want to move him, the ideal move was probably to showcase him as much as possible. Even if you think that kind of exposure would’ve depressed his value (and it certainly didn’t in 1000+ minutes last year), it’s hard to imagine it depressing his value more than simply benching him. I haven’t decided exactly where I stand on the new regime yet but this situation feels like it won’t end well.
@2 and @4
We all know what Frank has to do this off season. He has to improve his 1st step, handle, and ability/willingness to finish at the rim. He also has to improve his 3 point shot to at least 35%-36% so defenders respect him and can’t sag off. When you look at his TS%, it looks like he’s a million miles way from being good on offense. But some of it is shot distribution. He doesn’t go to the rim a lot. If he was going to the rim a little more (and drawing more fouls as a result) and a little better at 3s, he would improve his efficiency significantly quickly. Right now, when he does shoot, he settles for too much mid range trash. No one can maintain a high TS% like that.
I think KP is eventually going to be our full time center. It may be 2-3 years away, but it’s coming. I’ve been worried about long term fit with Willy since last year. But even if Willy is just a backup C, he’s going to be a REALLY good backup C. I’d want something very good to feel good about moving him.
Interesting that Alan and Wally brought up Kanter’s defense against the P&R last night and also did NOT rule out moving him at the deadline.
Bobby Marks put out an article on the Pelicans today and their search to find some viable wing players – as well as them desperately looking to somehow unload Asik/Ajinca. He actually specifically calls out Joakim Noah as another similarly bad contract.
I wonder whether we could do a shit-sandwich-trade with them like this:
Noah
Lance
McDermott
for
Asik
Ajinca
Solomon Hill
some appropriate pick
Hear me out on this–
McDermott has fallen out of the rotation and unless he’s willing to take something in the mini-MLE range, is probably not worth trying to re-sign this offseason.
Noah is obviously terrible
Lance is not the worst player in the world but is not useful to us especially on that contract.
Ajinca/Asik are dead money — but really only through next season (Ajinca expires and Asik has just a small guarantee for 2019-20). Our long-term cap situation would be much better ($12M for Hill who might actually play at a position of need as opposed to $18M for Noah who doesn’t play).
Solomon Hill is not on a good contract, but it’s a better contract than Noah, he is still semi-young (26), is a solid defender, and showed some ability to hit 3’s.
The Pelicans are desperate to make the playoffs and to have viable wing players. McDermott and Lance would both play big minutes for them with them having to take on extra salary (they’re right at the tax line). Noah might actually play for them since they wouldn’t otherwise have a 3rd center.
Plus, we could go down in the Guinness book for having the most # of centers on one team!
Did the Knicks really call up Dotson, fly him all the way to Denver, and then play him a single solitary garbage minute with Hardaway out? IMO Dotson could be our Covington-like pickup but I fear Knicks might include him in some trade and then throw 20m at KCP this summer.
The 4-some of KP/KOQ/Hardaway/Frank have played a total of 41 minutes and put up a whopping net plus .38 PPP (a stingy .919 PPP from opponents). The rim protection KOQ/KP and the disruption by Frank at the 1 is potentially very powerful. Before we trade KOQ for a 2nd round pick, the Knicks should play Frank/Hardaway/Lee/KP/KOQ for the first 8 minutes of every game against the opponent’s starters to gauge the potential of this unit. The offense probably will struggle because of Frank but this could be a proxy for how Rubio might slot into that lineup.
My strategy is this:
> Play Frank in that lineup but also send him to G-league. He’s hit a wall.
> Tank hard – play Jack, Kornet, Hicks, etc
> Offer KOQ a 3-year/27m extension now (note that puts it a bit higher than potential MLE offers).
> Offer Noah a buyout right away where we pay him for this season and next. He could join OKC.
> Start KOQ next year and let Kanter play off the bench.
> Evaluate Burke but he’ll likely be problematic on D. If so, trade Willy to Utah for Rubio this summer. If Burke looks like the real deal, then trade Willy for someone else. Sell high.
> Not sure about Lee; if I knew we could free up cap and poison pill Kyle Anderson onto this team in the summer I’d do it. But how likely is that?
Potential Roster:
1…….Rubio, Frank, Burke
2/3..Hardaway, Frank, Lee, Dotson, Draft Pick
4……KP, Draft Pick
5……KOQ/Kanter
I don’t really pay much attention to the All-Star teams, but since KP made it I looked to see who didn’t make it, and I can’t believe he made it over Drummond and Simmons.
Drummond’s quote was funny – something about how I guess I have to start doing back flips or something to get noticed.
The Knicks run of overs continues. They really have been playing an amazing combination of good offense and horrid defense for a long stretch now, and it doesn’t seem to matter who sits or plays.
Put me down as no Rubio. I honestly think going forward that Frank + Burke + break-glass-in-case-of-emergency minimum salary PG is ok, at least for next season. Rubio costs $12MM and I just think it’s really hard to have a good offense in this league without a PG that can shoot – no matter if Rubio is an otherworldly passer and pretty good defender.
Put me down as no on extending KOQ unless Willy is traded. I especially wouldn’t give him anything above the MLE unless it was a short deal with non guaranteed years at the end. KOQ is from Queens, grew up a Knicks fan, and took a below-market deal to get S&T’d here. If we want him, he’l want to stay and would likely give some degree of hometown discount. Plus, there is little to no cap space out there this summer AND there’s already a glut of bigs in the league. He might get something closer to what Dewayne Dedmon got (2 years $14MM).
Put me down as a no on Kyle Anderson, who’s a good player, but not necessarily a fit on this team. We need more athletic guys on this team. We are not the Spurs who somehow seem to take nonathletic guys and still be able to play great defense.
There are finite resources to spend here. Right now we’re completely unbalanced with huge amounts of $ stuck in the PF/C position. What we need is athletic wings and 3/4 hybrid guys in the draft and FA, then concentrate on developing KP at the 5 and Frank at the PG. That’s how we should spend our resources.
I’m way more worried about KP than Frank. Frank will figure out his offense eventually, as someone said earlier, too many of his shots are longish midrange and he just needs to stop pulling up and go all the way to the basket. His shot looks fine, although some of his 3 attempts last night were serious bricks.
KP, on the other hand, just keeps putting up the same line night after night – under 50% shooting, subpar rebounding and a few blocks (and last night some really dumb fouls) And guess how many assists he has in his last 5 games? Two. I know he’s not Jokic, but he doesn’t make quick decisions with the ball and also doesn’t see the court very well for a big man.
I’m still holding out hope that he’ll improve over the next few years, but that max contract is going to look pretty awful if he doesn’t.
(Oh and watching him get his shit stuffed by Mason “Hakeem” Plumlee was nauseating. )
As a general way of describing KP, I’d say he does not have a very good feel for the game yet. It impacts his shot selection, positioning for rebounds, ability to make plays when he draws a double team, decisions about when to put it on the floor, and even some of his fouls.
When I watch him, sometimes I still feel like I am still watching a rookie. I brush off some of the stuff Frank does because he’s young and he’s making typical rookie mistakes. The problem is this is KP’s 3rd year. He’s supposed to be past this.
Maybe it will just take him a little longer to first fill out and then figure it all out. When we look back at this period 4-5 years from now and he’s 260, has stronger legs and hands, is playing with a terrific PG, and averaging 25 points, has a TS% of 59%, 3P% of 41%, 9 rebounds, and 2.5 blocks, we’ll all be laughing about having second thoughts. (I hope)
Pelicans are desperate buyers for veteran wings to make a playoff run. Michael Jordan is desperately selling to hit the reset button. Perry wants to get better via draft picks, good two way players and add an all star player to lift KPs game and make sure he re-signs and is a knick forever. Magic has his eye out for him not LBJ/PG13
Here is a trade that does all of the above of that.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yczaonma
Knicks also get Pelicans 2018 first round pick and Jordan’s second round pick. So we have 2 firsts and 3 seconds this summer.
Its one of those trades where everyone wins but no one is super excited about it.
i happen to like kyle anderson a lot…. having a SF to help on the boards is gonna be key to what we do given kp’s deficiencies there…. he’s also a decent ball handler and creator…. plays good defense…. he’s just very low usage but i happen to think he’s ready for an expanded role and quite possibly a breakout….
i don’t think SA will let him go though….
@12 – not sure why the above trade link didn’t work.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yd8r7qbr
Just for the record, the Knicks have now played more games on the road than at home.
I think GianaDani’s explanation of his trade proposal followed by a link that results in “Page error.” is a perfect encapsulation of this Knicks season thus far.
His second post to fix the Page error that results in the same Page error is the icing on the cake.
You have to save the trade then post link
Need a ruling from you guys.
Went to the game in Denver last night. My wife made me wear a nuggets hoodie. had the knicks t underneath. We sit up in the nosebleeds, and about 2 mins later, an usher comes over and upgrades us to the 100 section by the basket; because we were wearing nuggets gear.
So, am I still one of us?
I will post my observations from seeing this shit live in a bit.
You’re a Knick spy
Anyone know the exact terms of the Burke deal?
observations from last nights game in Denver….the important stuff:
-Holy shit, lots of knicks jerseys. I saw 2 guys in Rose shirts. I think they jinxed us. Also saw 2 Ron Baker jerseys. I had to look at the number to make sure it wasn’t Vin Baker. Two guys were sitting down front; one w/ Oak, one w/ Bernard…..those 2 guys are ok w/ me. Lots of 6’s. A few melo, a few Amare; several Allen Houston. But no Trent Tucker. that upset me.
As far as watching guys on the bench; Timmy was everywhere. Coach had to avoid him a few times; he was really into it. Baker is crazy on the bench too. Coaches and players were really supportive of Willy when he came off.
This was amazing…..I didn’t see a single player on either team watching the mascot hit the behind the back half court shot in the 4th that won some guy $200. it was the best part of the night.
Was also cool to see the Hernangomez brothers hug at the end of the night.
It’s Friday. Time to stir the pot little. 🙂
“Since Dec. 1, the Thunder are 20-8 with the fifth-best net rating in the league — plus-4.5. When they have their starting five of Russell Westbrook, Paul George, Andre Roberson, Steven Adams, and Carmelo Anthony on the floor, they’re a whopping 15-0, as noted by ESPN’s Royce Young. That lineup has a net rating of 20.9 in that same time span.”
Well they had no cap space so it had to start off as a vet’s minimum. Begley reported the other day that he is guaranteed for the rest of this season but that next season is non guaranteed (with various guarantee dates to guarantee portions of the total $).
I am sure this will not continue but he has a TS of 68.7 on a 21.4 usage, assist% of 58.7, and a TOV% of 6.7. He literally could not be playing any better. 22/12/3 per 36. Good for him – must have been a pretty bitter pill to swallow to go to the D-league as a prev lottery pick, former college national player of the year, etc.
I guess the D-league trick works with U of Michigan players!
I’ve found basketballinsiders.com to be the most reliable for contract info at this time. LINK TO KNICK INFO
Note Burke’s 1.8m could be critical to making a possible Rubio trade work this summer since we wouldn’t have all those 1 year contracts as filler available. We’d have Lance/Baker/Burke/Willy as options. I’m NOT trading Dotson. Also, anybody know how those 2-way contracts work in terms of a summer trade? Could they be part of a Rubio deal?
“I’ve found basketballinsiders.com to be the most reliable for contract info at this time. LINK TO KNICK INFO”
Thanks.
Now they are saying Utah is very interested in Willy?
I can’t wait until we get closer to the trade deadline. Not that I’m any good at predicting these kinds of things, but I literally have no idea what’s coming.
Chuckzingis now has logged 5600 minutes as a pro and plays to a .102 consistent career ws/48. Somewhere on an advanced stat site the natives have to be a little worried.
Does it ever become time to move him for a hi loto pick this summer if possible after our hard tank brings us a 6-8 pick of our own and restart properly?
Utah’s looking to move Hood/Favors and maybe Rubio. I don’t get why so many people are so high on Hood. His advanced stats are terrible. Am I missing something? Mills pursuit of Waiters this summer is very worrisome in this regard. I think Mills and Perry are old-school eye test guys.
This is where theory runs head first into reality.
It’s one thing to speculate on whether he’s overrated, injury prone, worth his likely salary or even explore his market value. It’s another thing to pull the trigger. If you are the GM/President and you trade KP, you should expect there’s going to be an explosive reaction (more negative than positive) and that you’ve put your career at serious risk before anyone can even figure out if you were right or wrong. God forbid you were wrong. That’s a tough trigger.
Yes, OKC has been playing great since melo learned to stay in the corner and shoot 3’s.
I would not trade KP, but if I were going to, I’d do it now for a very good young player and a #1, and make them take Lee, in order to go full tank. Then I’d play Frank/Baker/Lance/Willy/Noah for 25 mins a night and go for Doncic, Bagley, Ayton, Trae in that order.
KP needs to learn how to slip screens and he definitely needs to get stronger, but did anybody last night catch when KP passed out of a double team to an open Jarret Jack for him to brick the 3 pointer? That’s why we need a Pro Basketball Focus that assigns player grades to these guys because that absolutely was a positive play by KP that didn’t lead to a made basket. If KP makes that pass to Trae Young next year it’s a different situation. KP needs to play better, but the big thing for me is always going to be “how many rebounds, blocks, and fouls does he have” because he needs to tie his value into being the foundation of our defense. In 1986, 1994, 2006, and 2018 the 7’3” guy should be the center. I don’t really care if we have amassed the world’s great roster of back up centers, KP needs to be playing the 5 and we need to be sinking or swimming because of it instead of masking his deficiencies with stop-gap centers like O’Quinn and Kanter.
My ideal roster for next year would be something along the lines of:
PG: Trae Young, Trey Burke
SG: Frank Ntilikina, Dame Dotson, Ron Baker
SF: Tim Hardaway Jr, Lance Thomas
PF: Julius Randle, Michael Beasley
C: Kristaps Porzingis, Willy Hernangomez, Joakim Noah
That’s what this team should essentially look like. Two point guard line up with break-even to plus rebounders everywhere, three point shooting, and hopefully there’s enough defense there to go with our high powered offensive attack.
People tell me we can’t get a top 5 pick this year. But I believe.
Zing has too much physical talent to give up on. He just needs to harnessed before his bad habits really set in. He should be playing center, bombing away from 3, and stationed near the rim on defense. He should not be taking turnaround 19-footers, doing the iso-Melo staredown for 5 seconds, crossing anybody up, chasing wings on the perimeter, or playing more than 35 mpg.
If we traded him for a Boston package, I’m convinced that Stephens would clamp down on his bad habits and put him in position to thrive. He’d become an elite player (though not necessarily a 25 ppg scorer, which is fine).
Oh, and setting screens. The guy absolutely needs to learn how to put his shoulder into a screen and hold it for one extra tick, rather than the half-assed screen-n-slip he does now. That kind of thing can be taught.
@31
My guess is the reason they aren’t putting KP at the 5 full time is that they don’t want him to get banged up and injured by bigger stronger players while he’s too weak to take the pounding. When the other team goes small, then they are more comfortable with it. He’ll grow into the 5.
It almost pains me to imagine how gloriously KP would be utilized in Houston, Golden State, or Boston…yet our Knicks have him and use him like Melo. It’s beyond frustrating. It’s shit like this that makes me think, even if we HAD the exact same player rosters as Houston, Golden State, or Boston have, we wouldn’t get the same results with them because of our inept organization. Too much?
I think that’s right. This is an inept organization, with a rotten owner who hires mostly bad personnel and instills backward organizational values.
Teams like Boston, San Antonio, and Golden State put their stars in the best position to succeed. The Knicks hand their stars the ball and go “You’re the man now. Carry us.”
+1 to every post in this thread lol.
I’d like to add that KP should also be employing the flying elbows thing when he gets a rebound, ala Ewing, Mutombo and Mchale. He needs to give these shorter guys who are bullying him something to think about.
I guess I’ll keep waiting for Frank to demonstrate why he’s going to be a better player than Iman Shumpert or Jerian Grant or Justin Holiday at some point. (cue Ntilakilla posting some arcane stat line that shows something that only Frank, Jordan, Wilt and Oscar have done.)
Playing with subpar point guards for his whole career has been really harmful to KP’s development, and is no doubt a contributor to all the iso-Melo stuff he’s doing now. It’s the one reason I’d be willing to gamble on a Rubio trade, because that guy would get Porzingis the ball exactly where he can do the most damage, all game, every game. Having a playmaker the likes of which he’s never had in the NBA would go a long way towards curing many of his bad offensive habits, IMO.
Here’s a unique Frank stat: He’s the only Knick in history who Z-man has not been optimistic on.
The only stat for Frank is 19.
The guy is 19 years old.
Shumpert was a cocky 21 when he came into the league and has had an injury riddled career that almost certainly hurt his development.
Jerian Grant was 23 when he came into the league and IS slowly getting better despite not having as much developmental upside given his age as a rookie.
Justin Holiday was 23 when he came into the league and like Grant has slowly gotten better despite not having as much developmental upside given his age as a rookie.
Frank is 19, the 2nd youngest player in the league, and by all reports humble, very bright, and very hard working. Let’s have this discussion in 2-3 years and then we can compare where they were at the same age.
After reading some of the speculation about Noah, maybe the Knicks can work out a deal where they trade Noah’s bad contract for some other equally bad contract, but one that fills a need. It would be a neutral move for us (and the other team) but perhaps at least give both a chance to play and compete.
I sort of feel sorry for him at this point. He’s a former defensive player of the year and he can’t even get on the court to show what he has left. Last year was a debacle, but he was battling hamstring, shoulder, and knee injuries all year. In the brief period he was in shape, he was playing better. Most likely it would be more of the same this year if given minutes, but it has to suck to go through all those surgeries and all that rehab only to find yourself playing behind 3 players that aren’t even that good.
I’m really not too concerned about KP.
The degree to which he is being asked to be the Man is essentially unprecedented. If you go to B-R and search for all forwards or centers age 22 or less with a usage >30, it is KP and Shaq — that’s it. Even making a usage of >28, that adds only Demarcus Cousins, Anthony Davis, and Amare.
Out of all those guys, KP is/was clearly the least physically developed and was definitely going to be the one who took longest to reach his physical prime. Add to that all the coaching chaos, Phil actively trying NOT to put him in PNR or encouraging 3’s, and the blatant lack of anything resembling a league-average PG, and it’s no surprise he hasn’t developed quite as much as we might have liked.
Shaq had Penny/Skiles. Dirk and Amare had Nash. Cousins and Davis have not had good PGs and not surprisingly, their age 22 seasons are somewhat comparable to KP’s.
Like others have said, if he’s 24 and still playing out of control, then we may have a problem. But I think his current state of development is more an issue of environment and his body still filling out.
Not that Portland would take this, but just to illustrate the point I am making.
Suppose the Knicks traded Noah for someone like Evan Turner (plus filler and/or a 2nd round pick). It would be a swap of bad contracts that could benefit NY and free Noah. Luol Deng would be another albeit worse option.
Repeat after me: Frank is not a point guard…Frank is not a point guard…
Re: KP – I know these are not huge samples, but ever since Hornacek basically said that KP was feeling the pressure to score 30 every night and that he needs to learn he doesn’t need to do that yet, his usage has come down and he’s been more efficient.
Last 5 games played – usage 28.5 (season average 31.7) –> usage 28.5, TS 57.7
Perhaps also related — his MPG seem to have been less also. Since MLK day he’s played 27, 33, 31, 28, rest, 27 minutes as compared with 44, 36, 44, 38, 37, 36, 36 the 7 games prior.
Also – in spite of his downturn, he’s still posting up on 25% of his possessions and scoring 0.94 PPP which is still 68th percentile. Not that bad.
What would it take for us to be able to terminate Noah’s contract?
If Noah is so demoralized by his situation he can always negotiate a buyout. He had every right to take every penny and I don’t begrudge him for it at all, but this is a situation where he can put his money where his mouth is if he really wants to.
@49
Good stuff. At that time he also publicly commented about his own shot selection.
Im still waiting to see how [any rookie PG not named Lonzo Ball] is going to be better than Shumpert, Jerian Grant, or Justin holiday
Repeat after me: DSJr is not a PG! De’Aaron Fox is not a PG! Markelle Fultz is not a PG!
kp has played a lot better lately… and really an illustration of why cutting his usage from where he was would easily improve his efficiency…
De’Aaron is not a pg. Or good. But that putback was sick last night.
Never liked Fox, but he is indeed a PG albeit with a broken shot. Agree on Markelle. Dennis Smith Jr. is WAY more of a PG than Frank by any reasonable statistical measure; he is shooting poorly (but better lately) and doesn’t defend (although Kyrie, Kemba and Damien are examples of PGs who are lousy on defense.)
If the Knicks are still trying to win games then Frank should be out of the rotation- both Jack and Burke are playing better by every statistical measure you can find. And playing him at the two when he’s literally the worst shooter in the NBA who’s played over 750 minutes makes no sense. He’s not a few tweaks away from being a good shooter- he’s a few tweaks away from being merely bad instead of horrific. I’m not saying he’s going to be bad forever- he might wind up being a decent shooter- but he’s really, really bad right now. And I think he’s hit the wall a bit physically- he’s given up a lot of dribble penetration on this trip. I’m fine with him getting minutes but that’s because I’m fine with losing but I’d also be fine with sending him down to the G-League. I’m not sure a G-League stint would help his shooting any but it’d be a low pressure place to work on his point guard skills.
per 36:
assists: Frank 6; Smith 5.8
steals: Frank 1.9; Smith 1.2
Turnovers: Frank 3.2; Smith 3.5
Or are those unreasonable statistical measures for a PG?
@58 Yes, it is unreasonable. By your logic, Draymond Green is a better PG than both of them.
Draymond would be a better PG, yes. Clearly a far better defender than DSJr would ever be.
Frank was not a PG in Europe, for what are now obvious reasons. I seriously doubt whether he would have played PG had he opted for the NCAA last year. DSjr, and Fox (and Ball) were all PGs in college.
Frank’s terrible shooting is one of the bigger surprises to me this year. I thought he might have trouble with his handle, shot creation, and play making, but he shot well in Europe in his last year and as I mentioned a few times he scored REALLY well in some shooting drills he was put through before the season started. Some of it must be the types of shots he’s getting, but he’s been bad.
LMAO That’s some nice goal post moving Z!
That’s exactly what makes me optimistic about Frank! The only time he’s been a pure 1 is U18 at which he excelled but U18 is way worse than G-League let alone NBA. KP’s rim protection at the 5 and Franks’s defensive disruption at the 1 is important. I think it might be 3 years before we get to where KP’s got sufficient strength to play the 5 and Frank’s got the polish and experience on offense to be a credible starter at the 1(he’d only be 22yo). Just like KOQ at the 5 would be an excellent inexpensive transition vehicle, either Burke (TBD) or Rubio could be the interim until Frank’s ready. This overall strategy would make us a competitive team in the short-term and provide a bridge to where we want to go.
That’s right, he’s only 19….he’s a zirconium in the rough!
Do people not realize the dude is 19, aware that millions of people are watching him, his career hangs in the balance of every game, and he is actually spending his time trying to create for others? He is a lousy shooter now, but was a good and efficient shooter in every other part of his career. He’s also a PG (or SG, whatever), and if you don’t know that these guys need time to grow, you have no business on this website. Jerian Grant would be a good third PG right now. SMH.
yeah, got it? if you don’t think frank will ever develop into a decent pg, scram!
he was not that good in the u18s… yes he won mvp but he wasn’t that efficient in piling up volume numbers against players his age or younger… his 2p fg% was i think sub .450 which is quite poor…. and u18s has never been a good barometer of future play in any case… it’s similar to judging seniors in college… so when the competition gets dialed up his efficiency and volume tanks but he was starting off at a low level to begin with….
his age works in his favor… but he still has to make huge improvements… mudiay is an example of a player who came in and stunk it up as a rookie and has made incremental improvements and is still a really bad player…. frank needs to improve by leaps and bounds… maybe not by next year but certainly by the time we have to start thinking extension for him and it’s not exactly that far away..
he’s at a .372 2p fg% … the avg starter in the nba is i think ~.450… that’s a humongous gap he will need to close….
Just keepin’ it real.
PG is by far the most difficult position to learn.
Frank is 19, has some great tools, good court vision, good work habits and his shooting form isn’t bad.
I’m more worried by our team’s inability to develop young players than by Frank’s possible ceiling.
I like the Mudiay comparison. Unfortunately.
Correct. So much so that turning non-PGs into PGs is nearly impossible. But sure, Frank’s the exception because he works hard. Right.
@72 I don’t know if he’ll become a good PG or a good SG, I think and hope he’ll be a good and useful player.
Judging him after 40-some games, at 19 year old living in another country for the first time is a bit harsh.
And I remember when a lot of people on this blog scream about Mudiay and Winslow over KP.
Three years later, even with KP shortcomings, nobody do that anymore.
+1
It’s been that way for a long long time.
Since the first brilliant moments of KP, I said the knicks will ruin his game. He came here as a very willing passer. It was just a matter of time before they beat that out of him.
+100
And I think it would be worth sacrificing a suspension to put his fist in Wade’s face after being thrown to the floor for the fourth time. Send a message.
Some of it shot distribution.
He shoots less often at the rim (and also from the FT line as a result) than most PGs. Instead he shoots more from mid range because he pulls up. So even if he was equally skilled as a shooter he would still have a worse TS%. Granted, getting to the rim and finishing is a skill. But let’s say next year he makes a small improvement in both his ability to get to the rim and to finish and replaces a few mid range shots with attacking the rim. Just that change alone would have a compound positive impact on his TS%. He has a long way to go to get “good”, but it’s a quick path to get to tolerable if he just starts getting to the rim more.
i think frank is a pg… to his credit he has good passing instincts…. and having almost a 2-1 a/to ratio at his age is a good indicator of that…. he just doesn’t have the scoring component down which would be exacerbated at sg and nullifying his defensive advantages in matchups there…
When Franks pushes the ball, which he’s just started to do, he sure as shit is a PG.
It’s clear as day that his upside is sky high. 19.
@78
Exactly. I think Frank’s career lives and dies by his production at the PG position. If he switches to shooting guard I think he tops out as a run of the mill 3 and d guy. Z-Man is obviously underselling his PG instincts—if the ability to pass (something he’s better at than any rookie point not named Lonzo Ball) and defend point guards isn’t good evidence that Frank IS a PG, literally what else could constitute good evidence? He’s got the canonical skills and then shooting and speed issues. But the core of a PG proper is clearly there.
A playmaking 2 would still be nice but Frank is the type of guy you want hounding the other teams opposing PG.
At this point I think it’s pretty clear Frank is a PG. The jury is still out on whether he will be effective but he doesn’t look like a combo guard being forced to play the 1 like Baker or Randle last year. Just because he’s been bad doesn’t mean he’s not a PG it just means he’s been bad.
His success offensively will depend on tightening up his handle and getting way more aggressive attacking the basket. His shot is fine and will be passable next year and probably an asset after that, it’s his ability to handle pressure and play with his head up as he gets into the teeth of the defense that will determine his ability to improve. He’s young but he is behind a lot of his peers when it comes to aggressiveness and ball handling, he has a long way to go. The fact that his defense is so ahead of the curve, his passing is solid and his shot appears sound, if not on target consistently yet, means he has real potential but he is still a long way from a sure thing.
What does it matter what Frank’s “true” position is in this day and age? James Harden and Russell Westbrook are PGs, is Giannis a PG or Lebron? Was Derrick Rose ever a true PG?
Who cares?
He’s got good instincts, is a very good defender and has real, obvious skills and flaws. He’s a NBA player, 19 years old and full of things he can develop like every other 19 year old.
It’s stupid to look at what he’s doing under the light of some metaphorical assumption of what a “real” PG should be or not. He’s been good and bad, just like pretty much all rookies including most of the “true point guards” in his class.
To dismiss what he does as not PG stuff and look at Dennis Smith Jr and see what he does as PG stuff is literally considering only driving to the basket and finishing inside as PG stuff. By that criteria, another Z-Man favorite, Derrick Rose, was the epitome of a true PG.
We had that guy who can break down defenses off the dribble and create a shot against anyone last year and even though I tried to wipe it off my memory, I remember it didn’t work out very well. Obviously everyone would rather have a dude who can do it + everything Frank can do, but there’s like 5 guys in the league who can do that and they’re not 19.
Just dismissing what Frank has shown he can do as useless is pretty much arguing that 2016 Derrick Rose was amazing, since he didn’t play defense or pass (useless stuff) but could break down defenses and drive past defenders.
I agree with this.
@72
This coming from a guy who was arguing Ron Baker would somehow be worthy of his contract value despite having shown no NBA skills because he works hard and is smart!
No it’s not.
Yes he does.
I would rather him be not a PG than be bad. So far he has been both bad and not a PG. Certainly as bad as Mudiay was his first year.
No it’s not, and there’s little to suggest that it “definitely” will be passable next year and “probably” an asset after that.
Agreed. A VERY long way to go.
Not sure what this means. You can have the most beautiful stroke in the world (his isn’t) and still never become a good shooter, happens all the time. At some point, either you have the hand-eye coordination or you don’t. Frank misses tons of wide open shots and struggles mightily to finish anything but a standard layup. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that he will become a better shooter than Shump, or Holiday, or Grant.
Last I checked, Ron Baker’s VORP was 0.2, same as Beasley and 0.1 less than KP. He is second on the team (rotation players) in DBPM. Should be on a minimum deal (I never disputed that) but whatever. He’s playing WAY better than Frank, and is an excellent defensive guard.
BTW, he is also not a PG.
That’s what I meant, the awesomeness we’re witnessing now from Baker is a result of hard work and being smart! Why can’t Frank do it?
But really, he’s way better as a 24 year old than 19 year old Ntilikina because he has a 0.2 VORP instead of -0.2 and a 0.9 DBPM instead of 0.1. It really must have been a LOT of hard work over the offseason to achieve this level.
See, I think it’s stupid to compare a guy who has no burst, lateral movement or vertical to sure HOFers who were immediately opening eyes with other-worldly athleticism when they entered the league. (Rose was an uber-athletic ROY-MVP on his way to HOF before his knees turned to jelly.) Frank has had 3 dunks and 2 and-1’s in almost 1000 minutes. But you go right on ahead drooling over his potential and comparing him to all-time greats.
The difference is that with Baker, we’re arguing over whether he can become a decent end-of-rotation player on a modest contract as an undrafted camp invitee; while with Frank, we’re arguing whether we squandered a high pick in a deep draft on Ron Baker 2.0, or whether he’s the next Giannis, Westbrook, or LeBron.
@89
See, I think it’s stupid and frankly even dishonest to read the quoted part of my post as me comparing Frank Ntilikina to James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Giannis, Lebron or even Rose.
It’s an era of basketball where position hardly matters. That’s what the aforementioned part says, using examples of star players. Let’s use other examples then, I don’t know, Miami: is Josh Richardson a 1, 2 or 3? Tyler Johnson? Is James Johnson a 3 or a 4? Is Dion Waiters a 1 or 2? Who cares?
The issue is that nobody is arguing he’s going to be an all time great, it’s just you that had already decided, even before the kid was drafted, that he’s a worse version of Ron Baker and you’re giddy because you think you’ve been proven right and that’s it for his career.
Zman is just having some fun and trolling about Frank. It’s the most hopeful explanation for saying the Dennis Smith Jr stuff.
I didn’t bring up DSjr and am on record agreeing that he shouldn’t have been drafted once he refused to have a physical or whatever. Mitchell would have been nice.
Nobody know whether Frank is going to be an NBA PG or not, but his being only 19 is no guarantee that he will be. We shouldn’t use it as a blanket excuse. He can clearly guard PGs, but the dude has a long long way to go on offense. He has shown no ability to drive at all, as evidenced by the fact that only 21% of his shots come within 10 feet. Which might be OK if he could hit jumpers, but he can’t.
Will he become a better shooter? I dunno, maybe. Rubio never did. Will he suddenly develop a first step? I dunno, maybe.
Mudiay was awful as a rookie and I’m sure all the Nuggets fans said, “Who cares, he’s 19!” Three years later he still sucks. Same with Exum and Wiggins and a whole lot of other 19-year olds. Again, I’m not saying he’ll never play PG. But he needs to get a LOT better on offense to do it.
Mitchell, now there’s “not a real point guard”
Based on what we’ve seen from Frank so far, his NBA ceiling looks like Marcus Smart. A contributor but definitely not a starting PG.
@95
I agree with you Oak, there’s obvious concerns, but it also doesn’t invalidate the fact that he is 19.
Some players develop and some don’t, and there’s a million factors going on with each of them. Situation, skills, experience, franchise, coaching staff, “hard work”, ability to cope with pressure, etc etc.
That’s why I hate the “he’s Mudiay” or whatever argument, because every single player has a very different and unique set of such factors. We have no idea whether Frank will fizzle or develop, all we can do is guess (and when one or the other happens, the ones who guessed right gain the right to pull off a Z-man and say they were right all along!)
It’s stupid and dishonest to say that position hardly matters. I doubt that you’re ignorant enough to really believe that. Is there any doubt as to what position Kyrie Irving plays? Or Steph Curry? Or Kyle Lowry? Or Chris Paul?
There are a few (very few) guys that transcend position. Harden, Giannis, and LeBron are the three most striking examples. But that’s always been true. These guys are either uber-athletic or extremely highly skilled with good size.
There are many more examples of tweeners (bad) and combo players (good). Frank will ultimately be one of those two. He will never, ever be a “positionless” player in the sense of the guys you brought up, so it was incredibly stupid to make any argument invoking their names (I only say that because you decided to be an a-hole and make it personal when my posts were not even directed at you or anyone else). At best, he’ll be a defensive monster combo guard who will give you a journeyman effort playing the point. At worst he’ll be a tweener 3-and-D guard off the bench who can play some 3 in a small lineup. If you or anyone else thinks his ceiling is higher than that, good for you!
wow what a fascinating hill to die on
@99
Yes, there is. If you transport Curry or Irving to the 80s or 90s they would be called shooting guards, just like people later called guys like Iverson or McGrady shooting guards even when they clearly handled the ball and initiated the offense the most in their teams.
What I was trying to say and you ignored completely is there’s not one way to play Point Guard and the definitions of what is a Point Guard have changed many times throughout the history of basketball. We are in a moment where positions are less and less important and roles on the court are more important, so getting caught up in a discussion about whether someone is a true PG, when the definition goes from guys like Rubio to Curry, who play completely different games, is useless.
Curry or Irving would have been PGs in any era, and it’s ridiculous to say otherwise. Iverson and McGrady were both transcendent athletes, and Iverson was perhaps the most physically gifted and highly skilled player of his day. But go on ahead, keep making stuff up…you’ll say anything to trump up Frank’s play and potential. Whatever definition you want to use for PG, he’s not gonna fit it unless the definition is so watered down that he’s Mario Chalmers to LeBron James or Ron Harper to Michael Jordan. And Chalmers at least played PG in college so wasn’t that far removed from the classic definition.
Ok man, ok. Everything that disagrees with you is ridiculous homerism trying to “trump up” Frank’s potential, when I’ve said so many times there’s legit cause to be concerned about him. Everyone else makes stuff up except you!
What a pointless debate.
This is silly.
There’s a lot of room between Baker and those greats players that would make me feel joyous.
Lets revisit this debate in 2 years. It doesn’t really make sense to wring our hands over it right now.
If we draft Trae Young or Doncic then it won’t even matter.
Here’s the deal.
The way the draft works these days, everyone is drafting the most promising 19 and 20 year old players. That makes it a very risky proposition because the gap between their skill level at 19 and their skill level at 22 (when they used to come out) might be very large or it might not be very much at all. It’s a guess. The draft has become much more speculative than it was years ago.
This is one of the reasons (along with data) I’ve been arguing that a few extra ping pong balls doesn’t really matter much. You can get the 5th pick instead of the 10th, do all the scouting in the world, and draft a “can’t miss” star at 1-5 that turns into a bum and miss a superstar at 10-15.
We do not know what we have in Frank and can’t know for a few more years.
We know what we have now.
First the positive.
1. He has good court vision and passing skills.
2. He has a high basketball IQ based on every report.
3. He is a very hard worker and willing listener and learner.
4. He’s one of the better defenders on the team already.
Now the negative.
1. He’s not especially quick or athletic
2. He does not have a good handle for a PG.
3. His shooting has been poor in part because he’s missing shots (ha ha) and in part because he’s not or can’t aggressively attack the rim to create better shots and FT’s for himself (shot distribution).
We have no idea what might happen between 19 and 25, but I think there’s pretty good correlation between intelligence, work ethic and results. Given that he’ll almost certainly be a plus defender, I feel fine about him overall.
Possibly, sure, but, again, the facts are that the higher the pick, the higher the odds that you’re going to draft a better player. Sometimes that doesn’t happen, of course, but the odds are still fairly blatant that the top five picks are exponentially more valuable than the next batch of five, who are exponentially more valuable than the next batch of five. Then it starts to become less of a big deal once you hit double digits. That’s fair to say. Like, #11 pick vs. the #14 pick usually doesn’t mean a whole lot. #5 vs #8 does, and #1 vs. #4 does (and #5 to #10 surely does).
But sure, it likely won’t mean a whole lot if the Knicks end up #12 instead of #10. But if they could get into the top five…wow, that’d be swell.
We would be in the 10th spot at the end of the night with a loss and wins from Utah/Charlotte.
The Frank to Mudiay comparison is an interesting one. Mudiay was drafted 7th, slightly higher than Frank and he was also 19 in his first season. His first season stats were similar to Frank’s This season Mudiay is almost 22, and his three point shooting is is 0.387, which is a significant improvement over the roughly 0.320 of his first two seasons. If Frank shot that I think we would be happy with that. Frank gets more steals than Mudiay did that season and has a higher BPM and VORP. He probably defends better than Mudiay did, but it is hard to tell from the statistics. It seems to me we got a reasonable player for where we drafted and that in two years he probably will be at least a solid NBA backup quality player. Of course we want more, but who knows. It will take at least another two years to find out.
No way in hell curry or Kyrie play SG in the past where teams played big and would rarely if ever have a SG under 6’4/6’5
They would probably play differently, but not play different positions
Theoretical presentation.
20%, 18%, 16%, 14%, 12%, 8%, 6%, 2%, 2%, 2%
and these
12%, 12%, 11%, 11%, 10%, 10%, 9%, 9%, 8%,8%
In both cases, the top 5 are better then the next 5.
In the first set, there’s a huge advantage to being in the 1st 5 over the 2nd five. In the next set, it hardly matters.
With 19 years olds, the draft is getting flatter than it was with 22 year olds. Outside the top 5, it’s flatter than that.
Unless you are in the battle for a top 5 pick and there’s no brain pick at #1 or #2 it’s not a huge deal. Beyond that, if there are trade-offs to tanking for 8 instead of 12 (and there are), it’s simply nothing to lose sleep over because you may even move up or down. That’s why I don’t care much if we wait until after the trade deadline. We are very unlikely to get a top 5 pick unless we get lucky and move up. In fact, if we do, I would be more worried about the team. I’m rooting against it unless we get lucky and move up.
A loss tonight would leave us just 2.5 games back of the Suns, who currently are 5th in lotto order. There aren’t any teams that have had joke seasons so far. The only teams that probably can’t be caught are Hawks, Kings, Magic. Everyone else is projected to finish in the 28-33 win range. Sure, some will tank, but not LA or Brooklyn, and I’m not sure Phoenix or Chicago have the veterans/expirings that they can remove from their rotation to make their teams significantly worse. We have a whole poo-poo platter of pointless veterans that we can trade or waive.
@stratomatic — moving from 12th to 8th gives you like a 5x greater chance of moving into the top 3. That’s the big difference.
@110
You do realize that Kyrie is 6’3″, right?
Many starting SGs in good teams were about his size in the 90s, Byron Scott, John Starks, Vernon Maxwell, Hersey Hawkins, Jeff Hornacek, they were all 6’3″ and started for teams in NBA finals.
Curry is obviously a different situation but he’s really one of a kind.
Agreed, the point was to compare the Baker debate (low stakes, low floor, low ceiling) to the Frank debate (high stakes, low floor, high ceiling). I agree that it is very possible that Frank improves to the point where we can feel joyous about him. But it is just as likely that he is Mudiay 2.0 while several guys picked just below him have much better NBA careers. Right now he’s on track for the latter, and when that changes, I’ll happily change my tune. Until then, I’m going to tell it like it is.
The draft is like a hedge against incompetence.
If management is good, you will win deals, find value in the draft, find players overseas, find undrafted players that can be solid role players, and most of your contracts will good to fair values. Teams like that don’t worry much about the draft.
If management is bad, you’ll get a lot of great draft picks and never be any good.
I want to be part of the first category.
@Stratomatic
Well managed teams never end up in a state like the one the Knicks are in so I don’t see how your analysis of how top teams manage to stay top teams has anything to do with the Knicks.
You’re competing against 29 other teams. At least a dozen of them are really really smart. It’s either ignorant or arrogant to think that you can outsmart these other smart teams by such an extent with your overseas scouting or undrafted scouting that you can gain enough ground to bridge the huge gap between a team like the Knicks and a team like the Warriors or Celtics. It won’t happen. It won’t even come close to happening.
And as far as the security blanket of the draft, that’s true to some extent but not the way you’re explaining it. The draft is there to allow teams that are smart enough to see they’re going nowhere to take their teams apart and get a trampoline effect. Those teams that are too arrogant or stupid to accept that they can’t simultaneously make a halfhearted attempt to be competitive AND plan for the future will have no trouble occupying the 28-42 win range for all eternity.
In other words, it requires and active choice to embrace the value of the draft to actually get real value from the draft.
If we had good management anytime during the last 15 years, we wouldn’t be having this discussion… That’s kinda the point, hope to get lucky in the draft precisely because we can’t trust these clowns to build a team properly. Even the freaking Timberwolves, who have been one of the few bigger jokes than the Knicks, eventually lucked out.
Where’s mike. Where’s Kenny. Who are you
@117 Exactly. I don’t trust this team to do anything well besides draft.
Yup. If you don’t have skill, you better have luck. I hope we get lucky and plummet to the #6 spot in the lotto, then get lucky again with a Top 3 pick.
I sure as hell don’t trust Mills or Perry to build a team. Perry’s short stint as Kings GM is looking pretty awful now that that team is garbage, with money locked up in overpaid vets.
it’s going to be a tough go getting below 30 wins.. we are probably going to need to deal all of lee, kanter and koq and get some terrible minutes out of their replacements and probably some bad(luck) in close games…..
i hope if we lose to phoenix that we wave the white flag on the season…. should have been awhile ago but it should be perfectly clear by now…..
I admire this blog quietly colluding to ignore all indicia of an ongoing basketball game
2 dumb, lazy tos in 5 minutes for Frank. Not feelin’ him rn.
Good tanking by the bench…
From 22-7 lead to a tie at 39. Great job.
We’re going to win this game because a guy who might not be on the team in a few weeks is going up against Greg Monroe.
Feels bad man.
If there’s been one consistent thing about KP it’s that he invariably owns Chriss multiple times a game
Eject that shithead
Throw the book at Devin
Poor timmy probably concussed
If TH doesn’t shoot those free throws Phoenix would have made Noah fly in
Did Courtney just get in hornacek’s face?
Answer to trivia question (highest fg% in the past on the Knicks). Would that be Chandler?
time for a short one hour break to figure out who started it
kanter was such a troll on that one….
Updated list of players who aren’t real PGs:
Devin Booker
luckily the suns are extremely deep in guys who can’t guard Courtney lee off the dribble
Burke-sanity was nice while it lasted
burke-sanity is alive!