2017-18 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bulls

From the GothamSN article Strat linked to:

New York won’t trade both Lee and Thomas at this year’s deadline because of leadership. The Knicks won’t and shouldn’t trade their two co-captains at the same time.

Can you imagine where the Knicks would be without the leadership of Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas? They have leadershipped the hell out of this team. It’s the most leader-tastic team I’ve ever seen.

That’s what I always think about when I look at this season and last season – “Wow, Courtney Lee and Lance Thomas have been clearly leading their asses off with this team.”

Pretty sure lance only got that title since he’s been here the longest.

3PT Shooting at the first timeout:

Bulls 3-6
Knicks 0-0

And 4 turnovers…

Maddening, absolutely maddening…

The Baker and Beasley white headband buddy cop movie writes itself

We’ve gotta be able to get a first for KOQ

We’ve gotta be able to get a first for Beasley

It’s only my impression or is KP regressing every game?
His energy level seems really low.

Super Beas is officially our first offensive option, even with Porzingis on the field…
… and that’s not a good thing for our appointed “Superstar”.

Beasley really has been formidable. Good for him. It’s always fun to watch guys legitimately turn their careers around, even if it only lasts a season. He’s just a flat out good offensive player right now.

Phil was clearly not out of his mind when he was considering trading KP and replacing him with Markkanen. This kid can play, is better than KP was as a rookie, and even seems to get the best of KP now.

Markannen hasn’t been better than rookie KP. He’s just brought it every Knicks game and that’s all of what most of us see. The kid can shoot but is an AWFUL defender. He’s new era Ryan Anderson (which isn’t meant to be negative)

The knock on LM was he couldn’t rebound. He rebounds better than KP.

I don’t want to blow this game out of proportion but he seems like he’s already superior to KP on offense.

Actually the real knock on LM was that he’d be a terrible defender, which so far he has, both all season and tonight. But he’s been much better on offense as a rookie than most people expected. still, both sides count.

He’s actually not a better rebounder than KP was as a rookie (and they both played with mr. box out Rolo!). You’re just typing things.

Kristaps should take a look at Lauris shot chart though, I hate KPs offensive game so far

Someone referenced Bargs. A few days ago I watched a Bargnani highlight video from whateve team he was on in Europe for the 16-17 season. Dont know about competition and to b fair to KP it was only like 3 minutes long…. but …offensively, They were basically carbon copies and dare I say bargnani looked quicker, even at an advanced age. Just eye testing. I have no idea what made me research bargs highlights… I give KP the benefit of the doubt EXCEPT when he takes the horrific shots he’s been taking. When he takes a bad shot , what’s even worse is how NOT EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE they ever are. He cannot take any contact… and he doesn’t love passing out of shitty situations. Sort of a shame

Let’s see him prove me wrong now

O’Quinn does some ridiculously stupid things.

Gonna lose to these clowns again. We just play, to simply play, too much. I dunno if we lose focus are we just aren’t bringing it. Like we lack purpose from time to time. It’s like the purpose is to try and get stops and to try and score points. But it’s not necessarily to win the game. If that makes sense. I dunno

I’m extremely low on the Knicks future. Our “star” is a league average chucker while the other star bigs of his age are posting top 10-20 player numbers. Frank is raw but promising but isn’t gonna be the guy, and our best rookie since Gallinari is actually just languishing on the bench, racking up dnp cds. That’s our youth movement and it sucks.

No one cares about blocks when the other team gets the ball right back and out hustles ur ass. Your weak side blocks are bull shit buddy. Yea I’m talking to you KP. Guards get weak side blocks

Markkanen flies right around KP. I think it’s official though .. past few weeks confirming KP is a freak of a role player. But that’s about it. Clyde is disgusted

Frank with the stealth tank

Beasley star outshining

The worm starts eating my brain: Phil knew everything about KP and Markanen.

@29

Bargnani’s weaknesses were rebounding, he wasn’t a particularly efficient scorer, he was often injured, and he wasn’t really strong/tough mentally or physically. KP is better on D and a better rebounder, but they are similar in some ways. Of course, Bargnani’s failures accelerated as he aged. KP is only 22 and may get stronger and a lot better. But on his bad nights when I am very frustrated with his play (which is practically every night now) he’s a rich man’s Bargnani.

You’re just ignoring the rolo factor; he is a unique guy who boxes out and doesn’t steal gimmes from teammates. just like rookie KP it helps Lauri. He gets only 6.6 reb/36 when he plays without rolo.

These lineups. These offensive sets. This team.

So happy that we might win this game off the backs of future longtime Knicks pieces Jarrett Jack and Michael Beasley

If you told 2008 me that Beasley would be a Knick and be the best player of our team in 2018 I guess I would be excited.

He is certainly a rich mans bargs on bad nights. Thats just too much similarity for me. And now KP just drops it out of bounds because KP can’t take ANY CONTACT!

Wow that was pretty stupid from Dunn. Time for iso Beas.

Here’s the thing about the tank IMO. The Knicks are so awful at player development that it doesn’t matter. They get players with potential like KP, Frank, whomever. It doesn’t matter.

I can get behind the Beasley redemption season were having. If we’re gonna win , it’s a silver lining.

Ugh

5 more minutes of this crap, holy shit.

That was dumb

We’ll need to get the ball to KP on offense in iso so he can clutch this much needed L.

Seriously if KP shoots a 3 on every play this OT I’m ok with it

Absurdly awful basketball

KP doesn’t look at the basket before he shoots … he just shoots

Bulls are our bugaboo

Dunn is 3 for 16.

Suck it haters let’s play 6

Hahahahaha

A play!!!!!!!!!!!!

Second OT. Time enough for Jowles to respond?

Jarrett Jack may get a triple double today.

being a knick fan is seldom easy or painless…

Phil Jackson was right

Phil Jackson was right

Yes, Beasley is better than we thought

Phil Jackson’s trade for Rose and subsequent signing of Noah has set this franchise back years.

Hit another one now buddy

The end.

Im honestly speechless.

I’m so glad the play of vets Jack, Lee, Beasley, and Oquinn, who played the last three hours of the game, and will be a huge part of this team in 5 yrs, contributed so much to this win/loss.

I’m very much off the KP train till he learns when its the time and place to shoot and pass.

If we didn’t have those vets, we’d have someone like Doncic this offseason. Fucking team.

@74

We are operating in an environment where some people are so consumed with hate they are no longer biased because of what agenda based news they read & watch, what their ideal model of the world might be due to education or life experience etc… They are suffering from a level cognitive bias that borders on delusion. In fact, adding the word “bordering” may be too kind. To me, Dershowitz is a rational voice in a sea of utter lunacy. You can find others on both sides, but they are few and far between. Any attack on him because he happens to intellectually disagree with many of the left (despite being a life long democrat and laying out a well reasoned case) is the perfect example of the kind of hate induced bias I am talking about.

I listen to expert views on economics, domestic, and foreign policy from people all over the political map. It’s important to me for monetary reasons. But quite frankly, imo Kerr is a blowhard that knows less about some of the issues he comments on than I do. He wants his views aired just like everyone else. He’s passionate about them. But it’s comical for him to be so upset about some nitwit like Ball criticizing Walton given that he has no expertise on coaching, but not recognize that he has no expertise on many of things ESPN gives him a soapbox for. You can’t have it both ways. Some fans enjoy Ball. That’s why ESPN covers him. Most of the NBA and its fans lean left. So when Kerr and Popovich are spouting their often misinformed nonsense it’s popular also.

IMHO, we’d all be netter off if people stuck to their areas of expertise and the media only covered expert commentary.

Trade KP, trade whoever. This whole roster is ass and this team is a bore. KP ain’t no max player, and a smart organization would cash him in.

I’m not excited about a single player on the team. The ship be sinkin’.

I have absolutely no doubt that I will be cursing these early wins very very often come april.

But hey, at least we’re building a winning culture full of veteran leadership! I guess that makes up for not getting Doncic or Trae Young.

If we didn’t have those vets, we’d have someone like Doncic this offseason. Fucking team.

Beasley’s definitely added a couple of wins but the other vets are probably helping the tank.

The signing that really cost us a top 5 pick is Hardaway.

I still think KP could be max worthy even if he’s never a top 5 player. He’s just not a go-to scorer. He should play the role of finisher either from 3 or at the rim while contributing great help defense.

I’m still down with KP. He’s not as good as we’d like, but he is still a good player. His defense has been very good.

It doesn’t really matter much other than Porzingis has been disappointing.

If we were winning these games and in a great position to get into the playoffs, that would mean our young players were playing well and about to get valuable experience that would help their development.

As it is, KP is disappointing, Frank has stalled the last few games, Hardaway has been hurt, and Willy has been buried behind Kanter. So now we’ll probably get a slightly better pick, but it won’t move the statistical needle much because we aren’t a bottom 5 team. (We’ll also pay a little more for that “theoretically” better player that could turn out to be worse).

Personally, I’d WAY prefer that KP was playing at an all-star level, Frank was breaking out, Willy won the starting job and was defending better, THJ was earning his contract, we earned a trip to the playoffs and got a slightly worse pick, than coming to grips with the fact that our kids (especially KP) are not as good as hoped.

It would help the young players if the Knicks actually had a decent coaching staff that was good at player development but alas they have an awful coaching staff to go along with an awful front office and even more awful ownership. As Joe Girardi loves to say, “It’s not what you want.”

Stratomatic,
To see so called liberals turning on Dershowitz is the final straw. Between that, their lack of regard for the first amendment, and support for Antifa, their masks have completely fallen away and their true authoritarian natures have been exposed.

The funny thing about KP is that the ability to dominate games is clearly there. He just lacks the strength to consistently impact games on the offensive end. He needs to figure out a way to increase his strength and keep on the weight because he’s our only hope. Maybe he really does need a TH2 level guy on the wings to balance the attack.

@126

I thought it was quite likely KP was going to break out this season and become a legit all star. I think his poor play after the 10th game or so was the lower probability outcome. Maybe I should have considered the fact that Phil said he was not ready to be the #1 option.

People can say all they want about Phil. I don’t care how crazy a pot smoking hippie he is or how poorly he related to the players and media. He’s already forgotten more about basketball than the cumulative knowledge of everyone on this forum. He never really discussed the reasons he thought that, but most likely he knew he wasn’t ready physically because he’s not strong enough to do a lot of the things he needs to do to be a top player (on top of the poor decision making). You can visually see that Markkanen is more physically ready despite being 20 years old. Live and learn.

Let’s chill on KP. So he’s not Wilt Chamberlain. He was still our best starter tonight. He needs to shoot more threes. LM took 22 shots and 15 were threes! If KP could just do that, cut down on the turnovers, and keep up his defense, that’s a very good and unique starter. But he’ll never be an offensive focus like Lebron, Wade, Jimmy Butler, or James Harden. And he won’t be a traditional big like prime Dwight or Drummond. Aside from just learning the game better, his value will depend on his three-point shooting.

@133

The problem is that teams know KP is a serious threat from 3 if left alone. So they try to take it away or contest his shots. They don’t give him as many good looks as he used to get. Maybe they can do a better job of creating good looks for him, but they also have to do a better job of getting him easy baskets inside until he gets stronger. He shoots massively too many mid range shots and even among those they are often low quality mid range shots. If I wasn’t a Knicks fan I’d be laughing.

@132
Libertarians disagree all the time. Immigration and abortion are just 2 areas of major contention.
But the basis principles of the NAP and ownership of your body and property are what binds us.

@136

I’m sorry, I just can’t give him the no Point Guard pass anymore. Does having the worst guard rotation in the league only affect him on the entire team?

Kanter, O’Quinn, McDermott and Lee all are having career high ts% numbers for the season, and they also play with Jack, Ntilikina and Baker. Beasley has his second best ts% season so far, only worse than last year (when he played with PG virtuosos Dellavedova and Brogdon).

So not having a good Point Guard affects only Porzingis out of an entire roster of people incapable of creating their own shots?

Let’s not pretend that Phil tried to trade Zing because he had a brilliant insight into Zing’s future. He did it because Porzingis “disrespected” him by skipping the exit meeting. That’s it.

That was almost certainly a factor, but there were other reasons.

If you look at everything Jackson and Rosen said about KP, you’d get the impression they thought he was going to be a perennial all star caliber player, but they were not entirely sold on him because of his body, size, core, and tendency to get injured.

Phil definitely was a hell of a coach. He’ll always have that.

I remember a game in the 1993-94 against the Sonics where Ewing shot 6 for almost 30 in a game.

You’d be surprised at some of the crazy one-game totals you can see with some of the all-time greats!

@142

I’m not going to argue this again. Phil had his flaws and made mistakes (Noah for sure).

I think most people are not accounting for the complexities of running a basketball team with financial considerations and underrate the fact that cap space is an asset. If cap space is managed well it buys you time and flexibility in adding players and subtracting players while you are looking for long term solutions. They are also conveniently ignoring where we would be now if we had those 2 first round picks and how it might have changed strategy and willingness of good free agents to play here.

Most people are playing fantasy sports.