Knicks Morning News (2017.11.21)

  • [ESPN] Knicks offseason moves pay off against Clippers
    (Tuesday, November 21, 2017 2:30:17 AM)

    Knicks offseason moves pay off against Clippers

  • [ESPN] Bernard King on Kristaps Porzingis’ play: ‘I don’t know if we’ve ever seen that before’
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 11:00:21 AM)

    Bernard King on Kristaps Porzingis’ play: ‘I don’t know if we’ve ever seen that before’

  • [SNY Knicks] GEICO SportsNite: Hornacek on Knicks’ prowess at home
    (Tuesday, November 21, 2017 12:34:06 AM)

    Jeff Hornacek on the explosive nature of today’s NBA and how his club continued to compete all night, securing a 107-85 win over Lob City.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Kanter lead Knicks to big win over Clippers
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 10:03:46 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis scored 25 points, Enes Kanter had a double-double and the Knicks beat the Los Angeles Clippers 107-85 on Monday at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Knicks return to comforts of home
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 6:12:13 PM)

    Stefan Bondy breaks down the Knicks’ road woes and how they’ll look to get back on track with a home tilt against the slumping Clippers.

  • [SNY Knicks] Hardaway will play vs. Clippers despite foot soreness
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 5:53:39 PM)

    Knicks guard Tim Hardaway Jr. will be active for Monday’s game against the Los Angeles Clippers after dealing with soreness in his left foot, head coach Jeff Hornacek told reporters.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis, Knicks look to get back on track at home against Clippers
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 5:03:39 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis and the New York Knicks face the Los Angeles Clippers on Monday at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Bernard King marvels at a one-of-a-kind player in Kristaps Porzingis
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 11:23:29 AM)

    Former Knicks great Bernard King has seen nothing like current star F Kristaps Porzingis in all his years in the game.

  • [NYPost] Frank Ntilikina has explanation for worst performance as Knick
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 7:44:12 PM)

    Knicks rookie Frank Ntilikina’s fourth-quarter benching was more the Frenchman’s call than the coach’s. Feeling flu-like symptoms, Ntilikina had his worst game as a Knick, committing four turnovers with zero points and one assist in 11 minutes and sitting for the fourth quarter. Jeff Hornacek said Ntilikina told him he wasn’t helping the team, prompting…

  • [NYPost] Knicks have Garden crowd to thank for overachieving
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 7:20:13 PM)

    On full display at Madison Square Garden, all game, all night, were all the elements that have established these Knicks as the city’s most intriguing nightly show. There was Kristaps Porzingis, still scuffling, but still scoring 25. The other four starters also reached double-figures. Carmelo Anthony’s replacements were superb — 12 points and 16 rebounds…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis is becoming a monster on defense now
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 7:14:36 PM)

    The Knicks had just scored with four seconds left in the first half to go up 14 points on the Clippers. So the Clippers inbounded and Blake Griffin raced down and dunked, completely uncontested. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek was so glad that was the case. Not that Griffin dunked. That it was uncontested. Kristaps Porzingis…

  • [NYPost] Jarrett Jack stepped up to give the Knicks the jolt they needed
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 7:01:11 PM)

    The same words are used about Jarrett Jack day in, day out, game after game. Leader. He gets the Knicks in the right spots from his point guard position. Mentor. He is helping rookie Frank Ntilikina navigate the NBA minefield. Professional. Veteran. You’ve heard them. But Monday night at several points in the Knicks’ 107-85…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony deal keeps paying off as Knicks top Clippers
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 5:05:56 PM)

    Life without Carmelo Anthony — and with Enes Kanter and Doug McDermott — continued as a winning formula Monday as the Knicks clobbered the sinking Clippers 107-85 at the Garden. On a night Kristaps Porzingis outplayed Blake Griffin but still wasn’t MVP caliber, the Knicks got important contributions from the two men they obtained from…

  • [NYPost] Tim Hardaway’s motivation: Proving the haters wrong
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 4:04:47 PM)

    Tim Hardaway Jr. has finally admitted the rips he took in July after the Knicks lavished him with a four-year, $71 million contract stung, and he’s used them as “motivation’’ and feels “capable’’ of living up to the deal. On Monday, Hardaway decided to play versus the Clippers despite suffering what appears to be plantar…

  • [NYDN] While Knicks’ future looks bright, Clippers are in disarray
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 8:25:11 PM)

    While the Knicks continue to surprise, the Clippers are an absolute mess.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis outplays Griffin, McDermott scores 16 in Knicks win
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 8:23:35 PM)

    Porzingis wasn’t spectacular, but he still got the better of Griffin.

  • [NYDN] Tim Hardaway Jr. starts against Clippers despite sore foot
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 1:40:04 PM)

    Tim Hardaway Jr. will play against the Clippers Monday night.

  • [NYDN] Hardaway Jr. trying to silence contract criticism on Knicks court
    (Monday, November 20, 2017 9:07:42 AM)

    There were 71 million reasons for Knicks fans and media to criticize the move to resign Tim Hardaway Jr. as a free agent last summer.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis leads Knicks past turnover-prone Clippers
    (Tuesday, November 21, 2017 1:33:46 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis’ shot was a bit off again and he failed to reach the 30-point mark for the fourth straight game, but it wasn’t a night when the Knicks needed him to carry them.

  • [NY Newsday] Tim Hardaway Jr. plays through foot pain
    (Tuesday, November 21, 2017 1:29:26 AM)

    Tim Hardaway Jr. played despite experiencing what he called “intense soreness” in his left foot that Jeff Hornacek acknowledged could be plantar fasciitis. But Hardaway said it isn’t that severe.

  • [NY Newsday] Minus Chris Paul and Carmelo Anthony, Clippers fall while Knicks rise
    (Tuesday, November 21, 2017 1:00:47 AM)

    Who would have thought this would happen? Who would have thought that life post-Carmelo Anthony would be easier for the Knicks than life post-Chris Paul has been for the Clippers?

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 107, Clippers 85: Knicks Beat Clippers for the First Time in Five Years
    (Tuesday, November 21, 2017 4:36:44 AM)

    The Knicks had lost 10 consecutive games against Los Angeles, but Kristaps Porzingis and Doug McDermott took over in the second half of a decisive win.

  • 52 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.11.21)”

    (reposting since new thread came up mid-post!)
    Honestly, getting even nothing of value to get Melo’s contract off the books is a net plus. Instead, we got two players worth more than they are being paid (I think Kanter is statistically a mid-$20 million player, even though I wouldn’t want to pay him that much and McDermott is a steal) and a somewhat valuable draft pick. This was an absolutely brilliant move, made possible by not giving in to Houston.

    It is also the case that Melo retained trade value, if only by reputation, and the NTC was not as insurmountable of an object as many thought. It was a dumb idea and set us back 3 years on the rebuild trail, but at least we pulled an Andy Dufresne…came out clean on the other side!

    Two observations:
    We are pretty mediocre at everything except offensive rebounding
    We are playing at a very slow pace, despite Hornacek saying that he wanted to play more uptempo

    I think the latter is a combination of two thing, Z:

    1)Our two best offensive players so far are KP and Kanter, and while KP can thrive in an uptempo attack, he also seems most comfortable posting up or otherwise taking time to find his spot.

    2)Jack and Sessions are old and slow, while Frank is still learning (as evidenced by Hornacek benching him late last night because he was playing so badly).

    An up and down performance last night overall, but they still won handily over the struggling Clippers. This is a good sign, taking care of business at home against slumping or bad teams. McDermott and Kanter are worth a longer look and so far make the Knicks look like winners in the Melo trade ( take that Presti genius). As of now I wouldn’t mind keeping both of them.

    I really love how McBuckets is playing on both ends of the floor. He had a great rebound yesterday where he moved DeAndre under the rim on a missed shot and tipped the ball out to himself for the rebound. He’s diving on the floor in every game to go after loose balls. And obviously we know he can and routinely does knock down shots.

    Btw Melo’s physical decline continues to go off a cliff. Less than 10% of his shots this year are coming at the rim. Some of that is a function of how everybody other than Russ and Adams is expected to space out the floor, but he really can’t and/or won’t drive to the rim anymore. Knees are gone.

    Frank’s poor game last night was troublesome until I heard Hornacek say after the game that Ntilikina was under the weather and told the coach that he wasn’t able to help the team.

    @4 – I would take it a step further. Both Kanter and McDermott fill extremely important roles on teams that aspire to a championship. Enes is a bull down low and is the rebounder that every team needs. McDermott is a 3-point sniper.

    If that’s all they were, it would be good, but they are more. Kanter is a great post-up offensive player and is starting to play good team defense. He needs to keep improving as a rim defender. McDermott is a complete player. He is playing plus defense on the perimeter and in the paint. He augments his long-range shooting with an ability to slash to the hoop. I would extend Doug ASAP. He’s developing into a star.

    I think this is a very telling quote about the difference between these Knicks and the Knicks of recent years.

    “I’m just having more fun than I’ve ever had with a team,’’ McDermott said. “Very unselfish group, great young team. I haven’t been part of a team like this since I’ve been in the league. It’s making it fun to come to work every day.’’


    You can see that on the floor and in how they bounce back after losses. I struggle to believe the Knicks of the last couple of years with Melo’s “woe is me” cloud hanging over him wouldn’t have gone into a tailspin after that Cavs loss, or found their sea legs after an ugly 0-3 start or had three 20+ victories 16 games into the season. These guys are having fun and are playing for each other. I’m enjoying it.

    @1o Absolutely! I feel the same way about this team as I felt about the pre Melo Knicks with Gallo, Chandler, Fields and Amare etc… They are sharing the ball, playing hard, all the players are very likable and they like each other. There’s no drama. We need to develop the young players and add more talent, but this is a “feel good” team.

    I would extend Doug ASAP.

    In hindsight, it’s a shame we didn’t pick up McBuckets’ option, but it seemed to be the correct move at the time, and you can’t blame the process for the result. So what would be realistic for an extension, and how would that impact our cap going forward, since we’re still stuck with Noah for a while and we don’t know yet if Kanter will opt out?

    McBuckets doesn’t have an option. He’s in the 4th year of his rookie deal so the Knicks will likely extend the QO at the end of the season to hold his RFA rights and hopefully can hammer out a solid value extension for him.

    I don’t think Kanter is going to opt out.

    He likes NY a lot.
    NY likes him.
    He’s unlikely to get a better offer.

    I think we’ll keep him. Hopefully the next contract will be more cap friendly. In time we’ll see if Willy can win the starting job from him and how feels about coming off the bench if Willy takes his spot.

    Oh, that’s right. We just opted not to extend him by the deadline, when he could have been gotten more cheaply than he’ll be if he keeps up his current play.

    I like O’Quinn a lot, but occasionally he goes through these periods where he seems to lose focus and starts doing a tad too many foolish things on the court (foolish TOs and fouls). When that happens, I think we need to give Willy or Noah minutes over him. Lately he seems to have slipped a little. I think this would be a good time to see where either Noah or Willy are for a few games.

    I really do hope we keep McDermott. He’s showing versatility, he was always going to be a solid shooter but be can move without the ball and tries hard on both ends. I can see him being a decent starter or a very good piece off the bench and I hope he stays.

    Kanter has been very positive and better than I expected too, and I would surely like to keep him too but at a realistic price.

    How long has it been since a 20 point win seemed so easy for the Knicks, even on a night where Porzingis was not playing super well?

    Defenses are playing KP much tougher, but I think his recent shooting struggles are partially self inflicted. Griffin was playing solid defense on him both inside and outside. Even Jordan was playing surprisingly good defense on him on the perimeter later in the game. But instead of passing he kept trying to force something that was not there. That lead to several of his 5 turnovers and a lot of fade away and off balance shots.

    When he was shooting really well in the first 10 games most of his shots came when he was set and squared up. Sometimes he would be shooting over someone, but he mostly was in control. He’d throw up a few tough ones throughout a game, but not a lot. Now it’s the other way around. He’s taking a LOT of tough shots. There was even one play later in the game where he was wide open from about 10-12 feet, had time, but instead of shooting the easy one, he tried to create something even better. He was defended well and wound up with a trash off balance fade away. I don’t think he’s fully grasping how to be an effective #1 option yet. He thinks he always has to score and shoot. He’s being too Meloish.


    I agree.

    One thing I did like about KP was in the 4th quarter when he came in he accepted the pressure and made the extra pass. He set up Jack for a corner 3 after catching the ball at the free throw line after a slipping a screen in PnR with THJ, but Jack missed. He also caught the ball up top on a pick-and-pop, 2 Clippers rotated to him and he immediately swung the ball to McDermott who knocked down the 3 which put the Knicks up 20 for good.

    More of that throughout the game please.

    Even though KP had trouble scoring, be still defended well. I thought his defense on Griffin played a part in making Griffin so frustrated he made one or more unnecessary fouls and fouled out. That’s also something we havent seen the Knicks do to an opposing team’s star in a long while.

    Also continued props to THJ. Now a ws of .113 pos bpm and vorp and playing a well rounded and controlled game. He is starting quality player on a contender.

    Sessions’s advanced stats are actually slightly better than Jack’s. I wouldn’t have guessed…

    …as much as Frank sucked last night, I think his body language bringing up the ball is significantly better than the beginning of the season. He used to seem timid about getting the ball stolen/guarded whereas now he’s upright, seeing the floor, calculating.

    Also continued props to THJ. Now a ws of .113 pos bpm and vorp and playing a well rounded and controlled game. He is starting quality player on a contender.

    Cool. Cleveland is super-weak at the 2-guard position. Let’s get that Nets pick. 🙂

    @IanBegley 1m1 minute ago

    Hornacek said Ntilikina didn’t play in 4th vs. LAC due to illness. “He’s been fighting it two, three days now. He just didn’t have it (vs LAC)….He actually said, ‘I’m not helping the team now.’ Frank’s a smart player. He realized he didn’t have enough energy. He sacrificed.”

    Still on the Frank train. While a tiny bit I wish he had fought through it with the will of Jordan, that’s a bit much to expect from a 19-year-old rookie. So, he did what is best for the team. With luck he realizes soon that what’s best for the team is taking it to the hoop sometimes and looking for his own shot.

    And I’m hating Timmy a little less. I am not convinced he’s a starter on a contender, but at least it’s possible, and he’s still young.

    Before the season I predicted 26 wins. I can’t tell if they are really 10 wins better than that or one injury away from being worse. But it is a very rootable team.

    Jack remains a weakness.
    His perimeter defense isn’t great. He’s a tad slow. His shot is not reliable.
    And oddly, he gets frazzled a bit under pressure.
    I hope Frank is asked to do more soon.
    I’d rather deal with his offensive growing pains and benefit from him being a plus defender.

    KP still struggles with strong players who get in his grill. And while he can shoot over everyone, he should always try to when there us a double.
    I love Kanter. I love his effort. I love the passion he brings. He should be our starting center, and he’s note old.
    O’Quinn brings a lot an he also is not old. Willy needs to show more to beat him out a No. 2.
    McBuckets is a revelation.

    What I love is this is a young, cohesive group that tries hard. They win most games they should win. They will lose against the better teams right now. We really are a good point guard from competing to go deep into the playoffs.

    I definitely have not enjoyed a team this much since the Amare led pre Melo team (with the exception of the crazy 2 weeks of Linsanity). Don’t get me wrong, the 54 win team was a lot of fun but outside of winning a championship I think this feeling is one of the most enjoyable. The feeling of a new, young team growing and putting it together and knowing that with continued hard work (and luck) that this is just the beginning.

    And its even better than that STAT led team bc STAT was 29 and had serious injury history. That team would not have been good without MVP level STAT but MVP level STAT we only got for one season. Then his contract was a burden. STAT was a beast on offense in his prime though.

    With KP he’s 22, still on his rookie contract. And he is actually good on defense. A real two way player. He’s only just starting to reach his potential. So when you think of what’s ahead of us, you can imagine a decade of him and Frank anchoring solid teams. And I would argue our youth and potential surrounding KP is also more exciting than the Gallo, Chandler, Fields, Mosgov core. Maybe at the time that young core was better than this core but Frank is 19. Dotson is a rookie. Hardaway is still only 25. Plus we got Kanter (25) and McDermott (24?). And even before the Melo trade we had all ready traded away some picks to clear that cap space for STAT. Now we have our first and multiple second rounders every year going forward. The only thing really holding us back right now is Noah’s contract. LT and Lee are fine even if they are overpays.

    @28 – great read totes…thanks…

    it was definitely cool to see kp mess up blake, similarly to how lebron dominated him…

    i’m amazed at some of the calls kp is getting…dude can definitely flop – as long as it’s someone on the knicks doing the flopping and getting the calls – okay by me 🙂

    When we first signed Hardaway, I defended the move as not as bad as everyone thought because he played so well in the 2nd half last year. I thought it was an overpay, but not significantly damaging. Then as I watched him play this year I started thinking last year’s second half was the aberration. So I started hating the deal. Now I’m slowly coming back to my original view. I don’t like the deal, but he’s playing better. I was at the game last night and I can recall only 1 shot that made me cringe. I think KP missed a 3 pointer, he got the rebound and immediately put up a tough 3. It was something like that. Other than that, he was good.

    Now I’m slowly coming back to my original view. I don’t like the deal, but he’s playing better. I was at the game last night and I can recall only 1 shot that made me cringe. I think KP missed a 3 pointer, he got the rebound and immediately put up a tough 3. It was something like that. Other than that, he was good.

    Does your opinion of a player’s value hinge on individual games?

    I don’t think Porter will drop below 5 unless his injury doesn’t recover well or something like that. He’s supposed to be out for 3-4 months so he’ll probably be healthy enough for evaluations in the draft process. He might still be top 3 unless Bamba and Ayton are amazing this year, but there’s no reason now to draft Porter over Doncic or Bagley if you’re a terrible team.

    I can definitely see a situation where MPJr falls out of the top 5 if he doesn’t look himself in workouts. You have to figure that Collin Sexton and Trevon Duval should see their stocks rise as they’re the best guards in their class, and then you still have Bagley, Ayton, Bamba, and Doncic. This year has a lot of talent at the top of the board and seeing those guys play could push a tall guy with back problems down the board straight to the Knicks.

    Does your opinion of a player’s value hinge on individual games?

    I think you need a LOT of data to be able to evaluate a player because of the normal volatility in player performance, injuries, differences in teammates and roles, playing in different systems, player development and regression etc… However, as new information comes in it can slowly change my interpretation of prior data.

    For example, I think Hardaway played a lot better in the second half of the season last year than he had prior. Most would agree with that. That might have represented a positive aberration or it might have represented legitimate improvement that could be sustained. I don’t think there was a right answer as to which it was. There were probabilities. Given his age and other factors, I was learning towards actual improvement as being more likely, but I knew I could easily be wrong. Maybe it was 60-40, but who knows exactly.

    As I’ve seen more games this year, my view of those probabilities have shifted around. He looked so bad early, it initially shifted downwards to maybe 40-60. Now it’s back to maybe 60-40 that he can sustain a higher level.

    I feel exactly the same about KP.

    He’s very young and a hard worker. That makes it more likely he’s much better. But in the back of my mind I remember that he also played really well early last year and then regressed. So maybe he’s better, but hasn’t broken out to the superstar level as a scorer yet. It’s a shifting probability.

    Information I gain each game matters.

    For example, last night when he got the ball in the post and was defended well, he was forcing up a lot of garbage. If he hasn’t figured out what to do in those specific situations yet, the probability that he can sustain a TS% of 60% is lower than I thought 4-5 games ago. There is no right answer yet. It’s a slowly shifting probability. Maybe it was one dumb game & maybe he learned something.

    Trey Burke is being groomed at Westchester and is probably better than Jack or Sessions right now. Plus he fits with our timeline, having just turned 25.

    Isaiah Hicks has also played well although I don’t see a need for him right now unless he develops an outside shot.

    Damyean Dotson plays like a 10 year veteran. Has he ever made a bad play or been out of position?
    His shot is accurate and feathery.

    I agree that we won the Melo trade. I can see both Kanter and McDermott staying long term plus we got a decent pick. They’ll probably all be playing for us when Melo is retired.


    I think this might be closer to the Embiid and Kyrie cases. Yes, Embiid and Kyrie did play in college and impressed, but I still think someone will take a chance, if his injury heals properly and there’s no remaining issues.

    If he does have issues in the pre draft workouts then yeah, for sure he’ll drop, but I can’t see teams like Dallas, Sacramento or Atlanta passing on him for guys like Duval or Sexton when they already have young point guards they like, Chicago and Cleveland maybe.

    Has he ever made a bad play

    Yes, he has. Unfortunately, it didn’t prevent him from being drafted.


    How far down draft boards do you guys think Michael Porter Jr will drop?

    It’s a bad back. He’s having surgery. Ask David Wright and Don Mattingly what that means. If I were a GM it would cross Porter off my draft list completely. Bad backs don’t get better – they get chronic. But there’s always some fool that will draft him high.

    About Damyean Dotson, I was impressed with his play yesterday. He’s already a 3-and-D guy. He can rebound. He can pass. He’s a 2 that can play the 1. He’s got length. Additionally, what I saw yesterday is a player under control.

    “Does your opinion of a player’s value hinge on individual games?”
    “Yes, he has. Unfortunately, it didn’t prevent him from being drafted.”

    Ouch, THCJ throwing down today.

    About Damyean Dotson, I was impressed with his play yesterday. He’s already a 3-and-D guy. He can rebound. He can pass. He’s a 2 that can play the 1. He’s got length. Additionally, what I saw yesterday is a player under control.

    very interesting GoNy…i had really given much thought to dotson being able to bring up the ball and get the offense started, or, create offense…

    what makes you think he can help at the 1 (where – we most definitely do need some help)…

    Edit: just thinking – maybe dotson could be a better option than baker…he can defend and shoot…

    “Damyean Dotson plays like a 10 year veteran. Has he ever made a bad play or been out of position?
    His shot is accurate and feathery.”

    He was incredible in the early warmups. I watched him shoot 3s from all over the court and he was probably hitting bunches in a row for 10-15 minutes. Not that that’s going to tell us what he can do with a defender in pressure situations, but I’ll take my chances that’s he’s going to be a very good 3 point shooter in this league.

    Ouch, THCJ throwing down today.

    And I gave him the answer for evaluating the probabilities properly.

    Even though it takes a long time to get the correct answer, the probabilities are changing constantly as new information comes in and so should our opinion of the most likely scenario.

    I said that he’s a 2 that can play the 1, but he’s a shooting guard. What makes me say that he can play th point is some of the passing that I saw. In reading some of the scouting reports on him, he had a large surge of assists in the Chicago combine. Let’s see if he can hang on first.

    Let’s face it, we have a few guys that have decent play making skills without being true PGs because Jackson envisioned us playing with a 2 guard front. That’s why he drafted Baker, Dotson, and Frank. We are hoping that Frank develops into a true PG.

    Honestly, I’m don’t know what being a “true point guard” means. Nobody denys that Rose and Rubio are both “point guards”, but they have very different capabilities. Calderon was different than either of them and he was also a point guard. Ntilikina is already playing point, running the offense, and passing well. In what way is he not a true point guard?

    And I don’t pretend to read Jackson’s mind, but it could just be he picked the best available players every time he drafted. For example, consider Porzingis. He is not a prototypical “Triangle” center or power forward, because he’s not much of a passer, so he could easily have been the best available player.

    This is the way I see it.

    A PG in the traditional sense is a guy whose primary skills are ball handling, running plays, breaking down the defense, and getting good shots for other players. He may have other skills, but he has to be a very good play maker.

    In the triangle, you don’t really need a player that’s a “very good” play maker. The goal is to have several “good “play makers with a more balanced set of skills with and without the ball. The idea being that if the defense can lock down a primary ball handler in a traditional offense you can really disrupt the offense. But if the team has multiple play makers with a more diverse skill set you can’t do that as easily.

    When you look at guys like Baker, Frank, and Dotson, ball handling and play making are not the first things that come to mind. However, if two of them they were playing together in a system designed for that, you might get some interesting results. The pleasant surprise has been that Frank might have more PG skills at this stage than we initially feared.

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