Knicks Morning News (2017.09.14)

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: Stephon Marbury Announces His N.B.A. Comeback
    (Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:02:51 PM)

    Marbury, always a polarizing figure, has been out of the league since 2009, but is hoping to turn back the clock and return to the N.B.A. at age 40.

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony slams ESPN’s NBA rankings after he drops 33 spots
    (Wednesday, September 13, 2017 11:45:08 AM)

    Knicks star F Carmelo Anthony took to Twitter on Tuesday to criticize ESPN after he was ranked 64th in their Top 100 NBA player rankings.

  • [NYPost] Marbury: I’ve ‘spoken’ to an NBA team
    (Thursday, September 14, 2017 12:01:59 AM)

    Stephon Marbury hopes to finish off his basketball career back in the NBA. The 40-year old guard is playing in the Chinese Basketball Association this season for the Beijing Fly Dragons and when the league ends in February or March he wants to join an NBA franchise. “I’ve spoken to a team,” Marbury told The…

  • 40 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.09.14)”

    I think we can sum up Carmelo Anthony like this:

    – he has tremendous talent and skill. Even in his diminished physical state, he probably has top 20 talent. Very good shooter. Doesn’t need any space at all to get a reasonable shot off, which is an important skill. Very good ball handler. Really good court vision. Above average rebounder when he wants to be. Has length and size to guard 3/4.

    – he is not a good basketball player by the standard that he wants us to measure him against. He can do many things but he doesn’t play smart or with efficiency, and he has completely mailed it in on defense. He also probably isn’t in very good shape from a cardiovascular standpoint which means he takes a lot of breaks while on the court. And he doesn’t seem to buy into what his coaches have wanted him to do unless the coach bends over backward to make the system fit him.

    – he is being paid like a top 10 player in the league which he is not.

    – he is 33.

    If I were Perry/Mills, my Melo strategy would be (in order of preference):
    1) get Melo to expand his wish list of teams
    2) figure out a 3rd team so that we don’t eat Ryan Anderson’s contract
    3) buy him out mid-season as long as he takes a pretty hefty haircut on his 2018-19 $

    The very best thing for this team would be to get Melo out, semi-tank this year (ie. play young guys, let them develop, let chips fall where they may, which hopefully is a bad win/loss outcome), and somehow get one of those top 3 picks — really seems to me like Doncic, Bagley, and Porter are on a different level, at least as of now.

    Regarding Marbury:

    Feb/Mar is a long way off, but there could conceivably be a market for the guy as a backup point on a team pushing for playoff positioning.

    Stranger things have happened.

    I tell you, it’s such a great feeling to have our future draft choices in the bank. If we’re good I’m happy and if we’re bad I’m ecstatic.

    Yeah I would buy Melo out at this point. Just try to get him to agree to an amount that isn’t the full amount of both years (I think it would all still count against the cap, right?)

    I mean, it would suck to send him away for nothing but removing him from the team is going to be a better option for us than having him here, even if he did end up getting traded mid season.

    The earlier we can let the new young core of KP, Willie, Frank and THJ (plus Ron, Dotson), the better we are in the long run. And it will probably also mean more losses early on because Melo’s scoring will be missed (although we might be a wash without melo cause the defense might be better and the scoring might be more evenly distributed). But either way, I’d rather we win 38 games and barely miss the playoffs without Melo than win 38 games and barely miss the playoffs with Melo.

    This is fun!

    This article is so dumb it makes my head hurt. Ranked 22nd? Off of what? 167 last year in ws/48? 97 in VORP? 210 in TS% for the efficiency buffs?

    The guy is elite in shot blocking and fouling and that is it. 22nd best player in the league…. can the guy actually please do something first?

    I really hate all the dumb clickbate articles and the talking head creating faux controversies at ESPN and talk radio…. it drives me nuts.

    The guy has limitless potential but please God can the morons at ESPN please try cogent analysis?

    @6 Kind of reminds me of the stupid bust probability percentages that ESPN uses to rank draft picks.

    True scientific analysis of players who have yet to step on an NBA court.

    this NBArank stuff is all clickbait for the slow offseason news cycles. I don’t even bother reading it.

    Even in his diminished physical state, he probably has top 20 talent.

    No way He Who Shall Not Be Named has top 20 talent. There is just No. Fucking. Way.

    He can’t jump over a deck of cards anymore, he’s slow-footed and he can’t take the ball to the cup. He had 30 “And1s” all season long in 2500 minutes. He had 12 dunks all season. He is just not athletic anymore.

    I think that it is too early to buy out Melo. That should really be a last resort when all other plans have been exhausted.

    When training camp starts, it will be very interesting to see what happens if Melo is still on the Knicks. How does Hornacek proceed? I’d hope that Mills and company would have a meeting with him and Melo together and make it abundantly clear that Melo is no longer a starter. If he’s still around when the games start, let him sit on the bench and NOT hear his name announced as a starter, night after night.

    That does have the risk of Melo poisoning the young players, though, but it might also work to get him to expand his list of teams, maybe to Portland, who seems to want him pretty badly.

    Well, I can’t help it, because people make ridiculous statements about He Who Shall Not Be Named on a daily basis. Top 20 talent? Like, currently, on planet Earth, in 2017? At basketball? That’s completely absurd.

    here’s a slightly odd, off-topic thought…because – fuck melo…

    normally i don’t think so highly of most of the “journalists” whom cover the knicks…seems to me they usually have an agenda to be more a carnival hawker than someone interested in telling an interesting and truthful story…

    for many years – i did not care for frank isola…just didn’t like his constant negativity and personal feelings towards the knicks (probably justified considering how madison square garden and the knicks treat the media)…still – what fun is it listening to someone else bitch all the time…

    i remember when frank first showed up on “around the horn” – he absolutely sucked – came across as an extremely critical and obnoxious individual…was always one of the first people cut…

    didn’t help that he looked like a doppelganger for bela lugosi…

    was watching “pardon the interruption” yesterday, where he was filling in for one of the regular hosts – man, has he polished up his act…

    still bags on the knicks (rightfully so) – but, he really comes across now as a much more articulate, measured, compassionate and understanding human…

    when he’s on air now – you, can barely recognize him from the same guy a couple of years ago (still though looks like some kind of blood sucking fiend with those crazy pointy canines of his – i think he may have had them filed down a bit)…

    it made me smile though to see his transformation from a couple of years ago…

    maybe there’s a redemption story for the knicks too somewhere down the line…

    I agree you can’t start the season with Melo on the roster. You don’t have to buy him out today, but if no trade that nets anything useful comes to fruition before the start of the season, you have to buy him out. The fact of the matter is if you keep him hoping he gets desperate and opens up to new destinations or Houston gets desperate, there are only two possible outcomes:

    1) He shows serious decline, and we buy him out anyway

    2) He plays well, and the extra wins costs us more in the lowered lotto pick than we might get in terms of extra return

    The problem is that Melo is 33. Even if he’s closer to his 13/14 self this season than to his 14/15, 15/16 or 16/17 self, no one’s gonna put all that much stock in his ability to keep up that level of play through a full season. His value can’t change much simply because of his age.

    Isola just does that shit for national TV appearances. He’s a panic mongering asshat in his articles and on Twitter who hasn’t actually done any real accurate reporting about the Knicks other than crap Carmelo’s PR team feeds him for more than a few years.

    Fuck that guy.

    Random thought – I do believe the fans and the media will support a youth movement rebuild. I think the thinking for the most part has changed. Things are much different now than they were during the Larry Brown/Isiah or even Donnie days. For one thing the way the cap and salaries are now, people are wiser overall to the idea that a big FA can “save” a franchise…because it is much less likely that a transcendent star like LeBron will leave his team to go to another team (bc of money) and when it does happen its usually to team up with other stars or join a contender.

    Also the Knicks aren’t just a few years removed from being good. With the exception of a mini 3 year window when we were decent/good with Melo and Chandler…we’ve sucked for 17 years. Back in the larry brown days we were only about 3 or 4 years from the golden days of being great. Fans were impatient to get back to those days. Now I think they know it takes more time.

    Plus I think about Dantoni’s first few years before 2010. There were a few drama moments…Marbury, the Nate benching….but for the most part the media laid off/ignored the Knicks because Donnie clearly stated they were rebuilding and clearing cap for 2010.

    So I think the big thing is the franchise making the statement that they are rebuilding around youth and not trying to do a quick fix. Saying this publicly excuses losing for a few seasons. And with our young core we all ready have and the draft picks coming up…plus Melo and Noah eventually coming off the cap…I think we can get this thing rolling again in 2 to 3 years if we are patient in the meantime. If we can draft well the next few drafts (regardless of position) and develop the young guys we have…we could then look to add that piece or two via free agency with the Noah, Melo, Lee money that comes off the books.

    Isola just does that shit for national TV appearances. He’s a panic mongering asshat in his articles and on Twitter who hasn’t actually done any real accurate reporting about the Knicks other than crap Carmelo’s PR team feeds him for more than a few years.

    good to know lavor…

    i think i tuned out to the new york knick beat writers sometime around the period when that guy berman (i think it was him) was absolutely obsessed with stephon marbury, even after he was gone for a year or two he kept writing shit about him – it was really weird…i started staying away from the post, and daily news and started just checking the box scores on espn and getting actual game analysis from this site…

    not sure why – but “around the horn” and “pardon the interruption” have always been two of my favorite sports talk hows…

    when frank first showed up on espn – he was a serious hot mess…he might still be a dick – but, he’s learned how to put up a much better front now on tv…

    Doncic isn’t shooting well, but he has 12 rebounds and 8 assists with 3 minutes left in the game. Just absurd.

    I honestly think he’s the best prospect since AD–or ATM least KAT level

    the best prospect since AD–or ATM least KAT level

    Yeah unless one of the college kids has a monster season there’s no reason he shouldn’t go first, and ranking anyone ahead of him now is absurd, quite frankly

    Any chance Doncic will so fall in love with Willy and KP that he will announce that the only team he will play for is the NY Knicks? Otherwise, he’ll say in Euro leagues one year at a time until the Knicks get his rights?

    Yeah, I didn’t think so.

    Gotta be some way the Knicks can swindle the Cavs into giving swap rights to the Knicks for the Nets pick…

    Out of interest, for all the opprobrium being thrown towards the espn rankinns, did anyone even check the methodology?

    It is not not a statistical ranking. It is abunch of guys voting subjectively on pairs of players. Officially, it’s a prediction of ‘performance next season’ – which is undefined. But blatantly those who voted will have to some degree factored in age/potential.

    So of course it’s a heap of crap. On an apparently stats-based site, why on earth are we even discussing it?

    Jarrett Jack, Ramon Sessions….

    Somehow I have this recollection that these guys used to kill the Knicks, but then I realized every PG who has put on an NBA uniform in the past 10 years has killed the Knicks at some point.

    i almost forgot the roster has expanded this year…

    there’s like 20 guys on it now…

    that espn ranking was just a device to create more conversation – means very little…

    i had heard about some layoffs, but, i had no idea though that espn was in so much recent trouble with declining ratings…

    personally, rarely watch the sports shows on fox – but, with the emergence of the mlb/nba and nfl networks, plus fox – the’re putting a good bit of pressure on espn…

    Wow, what a beat down on Spain. Yeesh.

    I wonder what this does to Anthony Randolph’s stock. I can’t believe that guy isn’t good enough for the NBA.

    I kinda like the Jack signing. It’s low risk, and if he’s healthy he will give a steady presence off the bench, plus anything he gives us when healthy is a bonus. I wonder what in store for Lee

    Randolph definitely could get another chance, he has added a passable 3 pointer in Europe and has rebounded decently well. I would stay in Real Madrid over being the 13th player on the Suns, but incredibly he’s still just 28.

    About Jack, well, he’s terrible and has been terrible for like the last 4 seasons at least, but it’s probably just insurance / end of the bench token vet, so whatever. Maybe Melo really hates him for some obscure reason and it will lead him to waiving the NTC?

    I find it interesting that the comments on z-man’s post @4 focused on the obviously subjective ranking of KP at 22. The fact is that players as great as Kareem , Oscar et al. were excluded from this split as they played in eras which did not have a 3 pt line or even track blocks. Oscar, for instance , may have had twice as many points and rebounds in his first 2 seasons as KP predating the 3pt era. Sure KP is in rare company with those 3 stats. And I generally like the idea of such splits but the fact that the article chooses the 3 things KP does well is the article’s prima facie flaw.

    So I agree with English knick that the rebuttal should have focused on the statistic, not the ranking, which is not a statistic at all.


    Hahaha I actually remember it. That was also the year he started some games for the Cavs and shot like under .500 ts% and was incredibly garbage, but Knicks.

    Jack and Sessions can probably beat out Randle, and maybe Vujacic too, but I am not sure they can out perform Ntilikina or Baker, and I am not saying that because I believe those two are NBA level starting point guards.

    I was an Anthony Randolph fan when he came to NY. I thought there was a ton of raw talent there, but he couldn’t seem to get himself into a position where a team would give him plenty of minutes so he could learn from his mistakes and develop. Maybe it was his motor, basketball IQ, or off the court issues we don’t know about, but I was kind of surprised he never developed into a borderline all-star caliber player.

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