Knicks Morning News (2017.07.19)

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Confidence building in the Knicks?
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 6:36:14 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony wants to play for the Rockets, won’t talk to Knicks
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 5:55:00 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony does not seek a return to the Knicks next season and has no interest in discussing a future with the team, reports Adrian Wojnarowski of ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] Steve Mills said Knicks had to be ‘aggressive’ to acquire Tim Hardaway Jr.
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:08:19 PM)

    Knicks president Steve Mills justified G Tim Hardaway Jr.’s pricey contract saying the team had to be “aggressive,” per Newsday’s Al Iannazzone.

  • [NYTimes] Lonzo Ball Is Summer League M.V.P. So He’s Going to Be a Star, Right?
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:48:45 PM)

    Ball, the second overall pick for the Lakers in the N.B.A. draft, lit up the Las Vegas Summer League. But does that mean anything?

  • [NYPost] Knicks giving new GM power to remake organization
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 4:21:00 PM)

    While former Cavaliers boss David Griffin said he didn’t want the Knicks’ general manager job partly because he wasn’t clear whether he could bring in new blood to the front office, team president Steve Mills said emphatically his new hire Scott Perry will have leeway to tinker where needed. Mills said the goal is to…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo doesn’t want to talk to Knicks, just be traded
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:30:41 PM)

    The only talk Carmelo Anthony wants to hear is trade talk. One day after the Knicks new management team stated Carmelo Anthony potentially could return, it appears Anthony still has no desire to talk with Knicks president Steve Mills and new general manager Scott Perry about that possibility. According to ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski, who commented…

  • [NYPost] The black inspiration and pioneer behind Knicks’ new GM
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 9:32:55 AM)

    New Knicks GM Scott Perry has worked for four prior NBA franchises, but there’s one professional sports entity dearest to his heart. According to a source, Perry is a proud member of Steeler Nation. Perry takes immense pride in his father, Lowell Perry, an NFL pioneer, who in 1957 became the first black assistant coach…

  • [NYDN] New Knicks GM Perry on pioneering father: He broke a few barriers
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 9:38:48 PM)

    Scott Perry’s father, Lowell, always was more of a trailblazer himself, albeit never in Portland.

  • [NYDN] VIDEO: Carmelo Anthony plays pickup basketball with Kyrie Irving
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 9:08:48 PM)

    Looks like Melo finally found his dream team.

  • [NYDN] Knicks still set on trading Carmelo Anthony to the Rockets
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 3:33:20 PM)

    The Knicks remain as committed as Carmelo Anthony to finalizing a deal that would send the All Star forward to the Houston Rockets.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo not part of Knicks’ long-term plans, buyout not an option
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:07:45 PM)

    The Knicks may or may not have Carmelo Anthony on their roster next season, but a buyout isn’t an option.

  • [NYDN] How a Knicks exec reacted to a 61-year-old wanting to try out
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 10:16:31 AM)

    The Knicks have been desperate for some order within their organization, but not that desperate.

  • 207 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.19)”

    Am I the only one to be thinking that the Knicks have successfully turned the tables on Melo and now have the preponderance of the leverage in the negotiations? I think the statement that “we will go forward with our plan, with you or without you” went a long way in saying to Melo, “Fuck you and your NTC.” While at the end of the day, the front office might get cold feet and either waive him (stupid) or take back bad contracts (INCREDIBLY stupid!!!) they might just stick to their guns and force him into either opting out or expanding his list, or force Houston/Cleveland to make a deal favorable to us. That, in and of itself, was a break from the past and cause for some modest optimism. Whether they execute the plan well or not, the plan is a refreshing change of direction. It’s NOT the same as Isiah’s plan, which was to ditch all players he didn’t acquire and take short cuts to contention by using draft picks and assets to make high-floor-high-ceiling win-now deals.

    You are not the only one. I had that thought too. I think the onus is now on Melo and any team that wants him to find a deal that is decent for the Knicks; and I’m very happy about that. But I do not think anything will happen until close to or during training camp. There’s no need to do anything until then, and that is the point where the reality that Melo may have to stay on the Knicks will sink into him. Then he may start being more flexible.

    RE: the triangle, every former Jackson player that I’ve ever heard interviewed said that the most important prerequisite for a player to be successful in the Triangle was a HIGH B-BALL IQ. Which makes the Rose deal all the more confusing. But it does seem like that’s the best attribute of Frank over DSjr, and one that is transferrable to any system. In other words, not everyone is suited for the triangle, but anyone suited for the triangle can probably play in any system.

    I’m still waiting for LeBron to come through in the 11th hour and ship out Kevin Love.

    I don’t think Melo will be any more flexible.

    It’s either Lebron or CP3.

    The good news is that for once it appears that the Knicks will at least try to make other FO sweat a little bit in a negotiation.

    I don’t know if we turned a corner away from stupid yet. From what I see, Mills is in charge and his first actions were to kill our cap space to sign two fringe players. I haven’t seen the front office do anything smart yet.

    @1, @2. I agree – given the situation they found themselves in as they closed in on Perry, the approach they’ve taken looks close to as good as it could have been.

    That said, I think that situation was SO poisonous we probably still end up trading him in a mediocre-at-best deal. Whatever you think of Melo, he didn’t give himself the NTC and he has been treated appallingly badly by the Knicks. The people may now be different – some of them at least – but that will linger. It’s done damage with agents and damage with other players, and clinging to an unhappy Melo into next year will make that worse. The new regime may well conclude – I would – that the best interests of the organisation in the long run are to accommodate Melo as best they can and move on.

    Of course, if the deals out there are so bad they can’t stomach any of them this may be different. Certainly taking on melo-level money for extra years for non-contributing players (Anderson, to some extent Leonard) feels like it might be worse than the alternative

    I still hold out some hope that Melo would see that he’s going to feel compelled to opt out next year anyway and so take a buyout but waiving the second year. This would mean we could take the whole cap hit this year and move on, and he can take a one-year wherever he wants the. Try to cash in one last contract. In preference order, I would take decent trade first, this buyout second, keeping him third, full buyout fourth and bad trade last.

    All in all though, definitely encouraged by nearly a week of at least average team-level FO competence.

    A question I can’t seem to find an answer for:

    It clearly makes zero sense for the Knicks to buy Melo out. He has ~$55MM left on his contract including his player option year, which would lead to either 2 terrible cap hit years at roughly $27.5MM/year or 5 years at $11MM/yr if stretch-waived. But let’s say Melo wants to go to Houston so badly that he’s willing to forego some amount of his remaining contract — say he leaves $20MM on the table. Does that mean only $35MM would be left to either eat these next 2 seasons or over 5 if stretch waived? I could be talked into $7MM dead money x 5 years if the choice is between that, Melo poisoning KP for another year or two, or taking on bad contracts in trade.

    If Melo wants to go to Houston so bad, Darryl Morey will pull a rabbit out of his hat and get us Eric Bledsoe or Michael Kidd Gilchrist.

    I too find the machinations of the newly reconstituted front office encouraging.
    Perhaps Perry is the real deal.

    All that remains is for Perry to either take on future contract negotiations or to hire someone for whom that’s a strength. Because, at some point in time in the not-to-distant future, the player options need to become team options or non-guaranteed money.

    Woj says Melo “made it clear to the Knicks: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated…”

    What a little shit. I’m usually very cool with Melo- he wants money, who doesn’t; he’s always played his shitty way, and its our fault for paying him for it; his contract sucks, but we gave it to him and gave him the NTC….

    But he’s destroying his trade value. He ripped us apart once, and this time he’s deliberately doing it again. He really is. We’re probably going to end up sending him to Houston, so what’s the point of publicly saying so? Excuse my English- What a crap head.

    Melo hasn’t been treated poorly by the Knicks. He’s been coddled, pampered and catered to for virtually his entire time here until last season. He wants to go to Houston that’s fine, but the Knicks shouldn’t rush to make a shitty deal for him. This is business, not personal, something both Phil and Melo lost sight of for much of last season.

    What a little shit. I’m usually very cool with Melo- he wants money, who doesn’t; he’s always played his shitty way, and its our fault for paying him for it; his contract sucks, but we gave it to him and gave him the NTC….

    But he’s destroying his trade value. He ripped us apart once, and this time he’s deliberately doing it again. He really is. We’re probably going to end up sending him to Houston, so what’s the point of publicly saying so? Excuse my English- What a crap head.

    +100000000000

    At this point I would take back a cold coffee with source milk and saccharin for that ball stopping, no defense, low efficiency, locker room poisoning wretch, but I won’t take back a single bad contract or do any kind of stretch to put us at a disadvantage for 5 years.

    Trading for this SOB cost us few good young likable pieces, 2 first round picks, and a ton of cap space to pay him. We got back years of mediocre play, coaches and presidents getting run out of town, and general turmoil. I want this ass wipe out of town more than you can imagine. But I’ll go ballistic if he damages us on the way out too. On a net overall basis, the Melo experience has been worse than Marbury experience.

    I woke up with a bad feeling about all this. He’s gonna fuck us over and we’re going to take on shit contracts like Anderson’s. The cycle will just continue and continue.

    That said, MKG would be pretty great.

    Concurring with the melo hate this time around. I tend to be pretty lenient for melo for wanting to go to NY ( even though he should have just came to us in FA, who cares how well off the team you are leaving is???), but he’s being a diva, full bore. And yes it is affecting our leverage in trade talks, so forget melo, the Knicks are what really matter (bleak future aside…). We aren’t facilitators of melo’s desires. He plays for us. If a move doesn’t directly benefit us, he can stew a little, maybe he opens up his ntc. (Boy that NTC is regrettable).

    This is a different game of chicken than the time Melo provoked the ill fated Denver trade. Now his leverage is his ability to be a negative force on a rebuilding team. Is he willing to spend a year or two of his diminishing career being an All Star douche? How will that impact his ability to extend his career and his brand?
    How far is HOU willing to go to get Melo, and how strong are Perry/Mills willing to stand if HOU offers negative assets? As other dumpster fire teams give their fan bases some rays of hope, we in Knickland still breathe the fumes of our ongoing inferno.

    So to clarify – I don’t think we should accommodate Melo for the sake of accommodating him and I do think his current behaviour is diva-ish. But I also think we may need to conclude that there’s a cost to keeping him as well as a cost to moving him, and even though we may not get as much back as we would like it might still be worth it.

    I also think, whatever he’s guilty of, the organisation have treated him badly. The knicks knew what he was and what he wasn’t when they gave him that deal. In 2015-16 most people agree he actually played pretty well and tried at some of the things other than scoring that he’s not as good at. He repeatedly said he would entertain a discussion about the future, and instead the team president thought it better to try to Zen-mind-game him out of town through the media. That’s appalling bad asset-management – more so when the asset is a highly popular guy in the league and in your own locker room.

    Basically – there is scope for both the knicks and Melo to be at fault here- there’s more than enough shit to stick to both walls.

    @8 – ordinarily in a buyout the cap hit remains the same irrespective of th amount paid. So we could pay Melo 35m but the cap hit is still the whole amount

    However – Melo has a player option. What I don’t know is how early he can decline it. Can he do it now? If so, the deal would be ‘Decline your option and we will buy out your one-year deal’. We take the full hit but only for the guaranteed year. The cap bit ends in full next summer. If that’s possible, that is a deal I would do in the absence of a decent trade.

    So, uh, we can’t confidently say that we have one point guard who can play meaningful minutes.

    Why is anyone talking about re-incorporating Melo? He’s not on the team for 55 million and two years? Please come play for us? No? He wants HOU or CLE and we have to take what they offer?

    Sorry, I’m not buying the whole “NYK treated him poorly” argument. Phil said some things that were true. Maybe they should have been kept in house but it’s not that big of a deal. And he’s been let go!

    Sorry buddy. We’ve given up the better part of a decade’s assets to bring you here and make you happy. You’re not going anywhere unless we recoup some of them. Waiving the NTC will help facilitate a way out of town for you but, honestly, no one wants your contract.

    If you play well and are a good mentor in training camp you might still start. If you pout and dog it there’s a spot on the bench or in street clothes. If you’re downright cancerous, just go home. NYK is tired of being a pin cushion.

    Stay strong, Scotty.

    @23 Dan D’Antoni via Harvey Araton’s NYT column supporting your point :
    ‘ To that end, Dan D’Antoni would like us to know that he coined an enduring Anthony-inspired phrase while working for Mike in Phoenix, where he would remind the Suns before a game against Anthony’s Denver Nuggets: “Don’t let Melo play Bully Ball.”

    That referred to the clear-out approach that made Anthony a lethal scoring force in Denver, where he utilized his size and strength to back his man into a preferred shooting area, and draw fouls and double teams. It was also a taxing style that has in recent years taken its toll on Anthony’s 33-year-old body, specifically his shoulders and knees.

    According to Dan D’Antoni, easing the physical burden that Anthony had carried was part of his brother’s sales pitch when Anthony arrived in New York in early 2011. Better spacing, less stress. Anthony didn’t buy it. He chafed at the brief, but stunning, success D’Antoni had in handing the ball to Jeremy Lin when Anthony was injured in early 2012, and privately cheered D’Antoni’s departure soon after.

    “Melo left Denver for New York thinking the old way of playing — give it to your best player, hold the ball, one on one,” Dan D’Antoni said, rehashing the now-deposed Phil Jackson’s ill-timed, but common, critiques of Anthony while he was the Knicks’ president. “But things were changing all around Melo. Bigger guys shooting 3’s, quick penetration, ball movement, to the point where it’s hard to even have one player on the floor that can’t score.” ‘

    Melo, not an open minded dude, to his detriment

    He’s made 200 million off this team, not counting marketing, etc., we’ve catered to him being here by signing guys he’s liked (JR), guys that might work with his timeline and style (Bargs, Noah), and gave away lots of players and picks to have him. What a victim.

    How is Melo the bad guy here? He’s been told for a year that the team doesn’t want him. He finally got to that point himself that he doesn’t want to be here anymore. Isn’t that what all of you wanted??????

    He picked the team he would wave the NTC for. Get it done.

    I don’t understand how this is anything on Melo

    we’ve catered to him being here by signing guys he’s liked (JR), guys that might work with his timeline and style (Bargs, Noah), and gave away lots of players and picks to have him

    Again how is this on Melo?

    This team had had bad management for decades.

    I explained it an earlier post that I normally wouldn’t blame Melo for these things since it is usually management’s fault, but what irks me is that he is now unnecessarily depressing his trade value.

    It’s only on Melo if he pouts and undermines the team. There’s some evidence he’s done it before. I don’t necessarily believe it or not (which is probably overly charitable). NYK for their part should have kept some negativity in house.

    Team can’t put itself behind the 8 ball accommodating his way out. That’s all. It’s about not continuing bad management.

    We traded Ewing and eventually had Howard Eisley and Shandon Anderson. We took worse contracts for more years. We can’t do this for Carmelo Anthony.

    He may have to play here. If he doesn’t want to, that’s on him.

    @ 29 – Because he just came out and said that he now ONLY wants to play for Houston and doesn’t want to come back but isn’t open to waiving his NTC for any other teams.

    He’s basically doing what we all wanted him to do when we were trying to trade for him to come here, which is ironic because now he’s trying to fuck us on the way out too.

    When we were trying to trade for him, Melo let it be known that he would also consider The Nets, which put pressure on The Knicks to up their offer for Melo or risk losing him. Now, Melo is saying he only will go to Houston and isn’t open to going to another team. All he would have to do is say something like “Houston is my first choice but I would consider being traded to a select few other teams” and that would up the pressure a bit on Houston to get the deal done in a way that was favorable to NYC.

    Like I said – there’s more than enough blame for Melo to take some and for management to take some….

    Because he just came out and said that he now ONLY wants to play for Houston and doesn’t want to come back but isn’t open to waiving his NTC for any other teams.

    That’s how a NTC works. It’s not his problem that you want him to be open to other teams.

    Knicks shouldn’t have given them a NTC…..then try to push him out. When you do that this is what happens. How is that on him?

    Like I said – there’s more than enough blame for Melo to take some and for management to take some….

    Absolutely…..i just think the “Melo is fucking us” narrative is ridiculous.

    Last I checked Melo is not in an NBA front office

    Not as a Knick’s fan, but as a fan of basketball I’d actually be interested to see what Melo can do on Houston. He should clearly be the third option on the team and should play the 4 since it’s a D’Antoni team and Ariza is at the 3. I won’t bet against him being mediocre, but that’s a pretty ideal situation for him. Then I’ll laugh as he calls for iso plays and freezes Paul and Harden out of the offense.

    How is that on him?

    If he fails to realize that one of the options is that he has to stay.

    Woj says Melo “made it clear to the Knicks: I want to go to Houston, I am not interested in talking to you about being reincorporated…”

    Sounds to me like Anthony doesn’t want to talk to Mills about being reincorporated, but is open to talking about it with Allan Houston. That’s something, right?

    @ 33 – Oh is that how NTC’s work? Thanks for explaining!

    Look, The Knicks created this mess by resining Melo and giving him the NTC. No one is arguing that. But Melo is still under contract BY THE KNICKS and Melo basically said he doesn’t want to come back but is only open to Houston. To me, that is a step too far. He needs to publicly say something to the effect of Houston being his top choice but he also wants to remain a Knick if that’s what the front office wants. And he doesn’t even have to be specific about which other teams he’s open to. He can simply say vaguely that he is open to other teams if its the right situation and that would put more pressure on Houston to get it done. His latest statements to me appear diva like.

    And yes, one of the options is that he has to stay. And I think Mills and Perry need to make it very clear to him that they aren’t going to just trade him for pennies on the dollar. And if he stays, he has to earn minutes like everyone else.

    But Melo is still under contract BY THE KNICKS and Melo basically said he doesn’t want to come back but is only open to Houston. To me, that is a step too far.

    THEY TOLD HIM THEY DON’T WANT HIM!!!!

    Melo wanted to finish his career as a Knick. You are acting like he was wishy washy about it. He finally agreedecided with them that it was time to go after a year of prodding and public shaming. Why would he care about the Knicks PR?

    You are seeing this in a very one sided way.

    Also, I think the Knicks should consider a buy out IF Melo agrees to waive the player option. It would SUCK to see Melo play for Houston and we got nothing and are paying him this year, but if it means he’s gone and there’s no cap hit from his contract next year, that would not be the worst outcome. We could move forward and have all that cap space next summer. I’d be down with that.

    The problem is that I feel like Melo’s thinking is either A)buy me out for the whole 2 years of my contract or B) trade me to Houston for whatever garbage they send you so that I go to the best team possible.

    I’ve defended Melo his entire tenure here but this is pissing me off. And no, this doesn’t excuse the Knicks at all for their mistakes but damn dude…we’ve given you 200 million dollars!

    You know the Melo hate is strong when he gets blamed for the Bargnani trade.

    He’s basically doing what we all wanted him to do when we were trying to trade for him to come here, which is ironic because now he’s trying to fuck us on the way out too.

    His latest statements ARE diva-like. He forced himself to the Knicks, and made us worse by losing some good players on good contracts; then he made us worse by continuously forcing out certain players, coaches, AND management; then he wants to make us worse by both demanding a trade, and demanding a certain team, thereby lowering his value in a big way. Yes, Phil was forcing him out for months, and Mills possibly had a trade outlined before Perry, but this is new management trying to make a good decision for the team.

    Again, for all the Knicks said against Melo lately, they DID max him out twice, give him a kicker and NTC, and give him the city for all the ads he wanted. I’m not saying he is beholden to them, but actively working against them, especially given his history, is pretty shitty.

    If the choice is bad trade or keep Melo, just keep Melo. I’m thinking about what’s best for the team, of course, but the extra f-you to Melo is an added bonus.

    @ 43 – Exactly. Its like some people on this blog want to only bash the Knicks and their poor decisions in the past even if someone is actively trying to screw the Knicks and that someone is a person they hate being on the Knicks!

    No one is excusing the Knicks for the NTC or how Phil “treated” Melo. But we’re clearly at the end of this relationship and it needs to end amicably. Melo is really acting selfish by not helping the team that has paid him 200 million dollars by just playing poker for us.

    It’s hard to just say “oh well the FO sucks, and melo sucks, there’s equal blame to share” when Carmelo is making the FOs job harder to do in curbing the (little) leverage the Knicks have.

    Melo should just keep his mouth shut and let the FO work. Yes Phil was antagonizing Carmelo, but Perry is Melos best chance to get his wishes at this point. I guess he’s realized winning a title in NY isn’t an option?

    Melo gets blamed for everything wrong with this team because people don’t like his playstyle. That’s pretty much it.

    Wait so now people want Melo to stay…..as an F U?

    WTF is wrong with this board?

    Melo should just keep his mouth shut and let the FO work

    Melo really hasn’t said much in the last year. But now that he DOES want to leave he should STFU?

    Got it.

    @7 English Knick

    I don’t understand this. Will you please explain?

    ” … he has been treated appallingly badly by the Knicks.”

    well, if the Knicks decide the trades are terrible and they’d rather keep him, he has to be reintegrated, it’s part of his contract.

    As many have said, the NTC does not give him the right to be traded whenever he wants, just to whoever he wants.

    If he refuses to be reintegrated just bench him and move on, he’ll be a lot more flexible six months from now.

    a buy out now would be incredibly stupid.

    How is this:

    Wait so now people want Melo to stay…..as an F U?

    WTF is wrong with this board?

    A response to this:

    If the choice is bad trade or keep Melo, just keep Melo. I’m thinking about what’s best for the team, of course, but the extra f-you to Melo is an added bonus.

    Er, I said “if the choice is a bad trade or keep Melo, just keep Melo.” So basically, if the choice is bad trade or keep Melo, just keep Melo. And then you ask yourself if the choice is a bad trade or keeping Melo, just keep Melo. I’m thinking about what’s best for the team, of course, but the extra f-you to Melo is an added bonus.

    well, if the Knicks decide the trades are terrible and they’d rather keep him, he has to be reintegrate, it’s part of his contract.

    As many have said, the NTC does not give him the right to be traded whenever he wants, just to whoever he wants.

    Of course. But we got to this point because they DO want to trade him, so it’s not like Melo woke up one day and just decided he liked Houston. There was a long series of events that got us here. Public events at that. So now that the FO basically twisted Melos arm to agree to be traded, you can’t be mad that he actually wants to be traded.

    I’m thinking about what’s best for the team,

    How is a disgruntled Melo best for the team?

    Is 55 million of Dolans money worth a “poisoned locker room”

    Melo hasn’t said anything publically as far as I can tell. Isn’t Perry supposed to be super connected to Woj? Why is the default assumption that Melo is leaking this to lower his trade value? I can’t blame Melo for wanting out after the org. has spent the alst 12 months actively antagonizing him in an effort to generate exactly that response. Isn’t him telling the org. how he feels what he’s supposed to do? Woj reporting it may hurt his trade value but I can’t see how that’s on Melo specifically.

    @er –

    – the NTC is obviously the fault of management.

    – the way Melo was treated this year is partially on management, and partially on him being extremely disappointing on both ends of the floor last year (he completely mailed it in on defense, for instance). If he played like the superstar he thinks he is, no one would be trying to move him out of town.

    – it is absolutely his prerogative to say that he will only waive his NTC to go to Houston and Cleveland. That’s what he and his agents fought for in contract negotiations, and that’s the power he has.

    – it is totally NOT his prerogative to force the Knicks to make a bad trade to get him to his selected locations. It matters zero how Phil Jackson treated him. It matters zero how close he thought he was to a trade to Houston last week. He’s under contract with the Knicks, no ifs ands or buts until the trade paperwork is signed. He’s trying to do the best thing for Melo, but unfortunately the Knicks have to do what’s best for the Knicks. If it means not making a deal and letting him stew on the bench, or be sent home so he doesn’t poison the locker room, then so be it. Some might think this will lessen the Knicks reputation around the league, but if he is really poisoning the locker room in order to force a trade, my guess is that people around the league will understand.

    They finally got him to agree to be traded, and then they tell him, “Actually, would you be interested in staying?” It’s clearly their right to do so, but that seems like a weird thing to do. I don’t think it’s odd to be put off by that if you’re Melo.

    it is totally NOT his prerogative to force the Knicks to make a bad trade to get him to his selected locations.

    Yea …as I’ve stated since the original trade. He’s not in the FO. Anything they do is on them.

    Wait so now people want Melo to stay…..as an F U?

    WTF is wrong with this board?

    These are the major options in order of my preference.

    1. Trade Melo and get back some combination of a young player, pick, cap space, but no bad contracts.

    2. Melo returns and we hope he opts out after 1 year. Then we get a ton of cap space to fill with free agents of our own choosing next year.

    3. Buy Melo out and have a lot of cap space tied up for 2 years but no assets, then filling the cap space later.

    4. Trade Melo to Houston (or multiple team deal) and get back bad contracts that leave us worse off than we would be by just keeping Melo and suffering for 1-2 years.

    #4 should be totally out of the question but that’s what Melo is trying to force on us. I’m calling BS.

    Melo hasn’t said anything publically as far as I can tell. Isn’t Perry supposed to be super connected to Woj? Why is the default assumption that Melo is leaking this to lower his trade value? I can’t blame Melo for wanting out after the org. has spent the alst 12 months actively antagonizing him in an effort to generate exactly that response. Isn’t him telling the org. how he feels what he’s supposed to do? Woj reporting it may hurt his trade value but I can’t see how that’s on Melo specifically.

    EXACTLY

    They finally got him to agree to be traded, and then they tell him, “Actually, would you be interested in staying?” It’s clearly their right to do so, but that seems like a weird thing to do. I don’t think it’s odd to be put off by that if you’re Melo.

    I don’t actually think they want him to stay, but if the offers are bad then the offers are bad. It doesn’t matter that he’s willing to go now.

    And really, there’s no hurry to get this done at all, except maybe the idea that a trade could open up some space for us to get the mythical “veteran point guard mentor” for Ntilikina. I’d honestly just hire Andre Miller to be an assistant coach.

    They finally got him to agree to be traded, and then they tell him, “Actually, would you be interested in staying?” It’s clearly their right to do so, but that seems like a weird thing to do. I don’t think it’s odd to be put off by that if you’re Melo.

    Right. The Knicks are shittily run. This is so stupid. As Woj said, the Knicks FO didn’t disagree with anything Phil was doing until he started talking Brazy about KP.

    So where is the disconnect? Both sides want out. Get it done

    @62
    Frank, well said!

    @65
    The problem with any Cleveland trade scenario is that Gilbert looks like he is preparing to blow up the Cavs. He probably feels that LBJ is leaving after this year, and he won’t cater to him any longer. The Cavs may be totally uninterested in getting Melo unless he’s bought out and they can add him for virtually nothing.

    I think that hurts any leverage that the Knicks have with Houston rather than anything else. All roads lead through Houston and Ryan Anderson.

    he’s destroying his trade value.

    Anthony isn’t hurting his trade value by talking. He’s hurting his trade value by turning 33, getting paid too much, and declining in all of his relevant statistical categories.

    If Phil Jackson had S&T’d him back in 2014, the Knicks rebuild would probably be over, the “fake news mainstream media hate machine” that Strat likes to roll his eyes at wouldn’t have anything bad to say, and we’d all be laughing right now at how bad the Melo and Rose combination has been for the Bulls and how dumb it was for them to think it was a good idea.

    You have to trade a player before he falls apart if you want to get value for him. It’s pretty simple.

    The idea that the organization has antagonized Melo is the biggest crock of crap around. Someone should actually read what Phil said and what he said he meant by it instead of what a bunch of pinhead journalists had to say.

    If Melo was my dearest and most treasured friend, if he was my brother, I would have told him “I think it’s best for both of us that the Knicks rebuild with a young team and you move on to a contending team so you have a chance to compete at a high level before you get too old”.

    Saying he’s a ball stopper is simply repeating what every single coach, sports writer, GM, fan, and player already knows. Melo already knows it. He’s just too stubborn (or dumb) to alter the way he plays. He must think he knows best even after getting criticized for it by multiple coaches of the year (Karl and MDA) and the coach with the greatest record of all time (Phil).

    That’s not antagonizing someone. It’s giving them good advice.

    I’m going to antagonize KP right now by telling him he needs to get stronger! lmao

    I still can’t believe how much Doc Rivers got out of Morey in that CP3 trade. If Morey just keeps one of those assets, this all would be a moot point. I’d take Beverley, Ryan Anderson, and a 2020 1st for Melo in a heartbeat, even if Beverley is just a trade asset.

    All I’m saying is that Melo needs to do what he did for Denver when he forced the trade here. Say publicly that he is open to the idea of being traded to a few other teams and that will force Houston to work this out like it forced us to work it out for him instead of him going to The Nets. Melo is doing now what we wished he had done for us, which is ironic. He doesn’t even have to mean it that he’s open to getting traded. Just make the statement and keep it vague and that puts a bit more pressure on Houston.

    I also find it hilarious that Portland is now actively trying to get Melo to change his mind.

    @71
    Phil’s fatal mistake was thinking that he could build around Melo, that the had “another level” as Phil said at the time. He spent three years doing that, and the Rose and Noah deals were his last desperate gasps to make that work.

    The one little silver lining in that is that Phil did a half-assed job of it. He didn’t trade any future #1 picks for help around Melo, and when he did have a #1 pick, he spent it on KP, a guy who was widely viewed as a project who might not be a major contributor for several years.

    The NTC and Noah are the lasting negatives, and they are big ones.

    If Melo was my dearest and most treasured friend, if he was my brother, I would have told him “I think it’s best for both of us that the Knicks rebuild with a young team and you move on to a contending team so you have a chance to compete at a high level before you get too old”.

    Saying he’s a ball stopper is simply repeating what every single coach, sports writer, GM, fan, and player already knows. Melo already knows it. He’s just too stubborn (or dumb) to alter the way he plays. He must think he knows best even after getting criticized for it by multiple coaches of the year (Karl and MDA) and the coach with the greatest record of all time (Phil).

    Phil Jackson didn’t say these things to Melo, he said them to various sycophantic members of the media while occasionally subtweeting Melo. When Melo himself has all the leverage because of the awful NTC you gave him, these things matter.

    Saying Melo is a ball stopper is undeniably true, but notice no coach/GM has said it about Melo while he plays for them, because that’s Not Destroying Your Own Player’s Trade Value 101.

    Phil Jackson gave us the worst of both worlds. He bent over backwards to accommodate Melo with absurdly idiotic moves like the Noah and Rose deals while still managing to piss him off with uncalled for nonsense. That’s the main reason we find ourselves in this shitty situation.

    Let’s remind ourselves of one important distinction that is being lost here along the way. Melo signed a NTC. He did not sign a TMWIWWIWC (“Trade Me Where I Want, When I Want”) clause. The Knicks FO still has the right not to trade this guy if they believe what they are being offered for him merits less value than merely keeping him around. The Knicks FO also has the right to look out for their own organization’s interests over the greater glory of Carmelo Anthony even with the NTC.

    You see, it works both ways.

    Melo doesn’t owe the Knicks anything beyond showing up for work, and conversely the Knicks don’t owe Melo a damn thing either beyond paying his overpriced contract. If he doesn’t like being here because his feelings were hurt or because he has better chance to win somewhere else then he can expand the list of teams he’s willing to be traded to and I am sure the FO will expedite the trade process. If that’s not his bag he can play out the season, waste another year of his career growing older on a losing team, and then opt out of his contract.

    The End.

    the Knicks have told Melo they want to trade him, not “we will trade you no matter what for whatever shit Houston offers”.

    He has the right to be pissed, but he also signed the stupid contract the Knicks gave him.

    Why do you guys make it sound like Melo is pissed off at the situation? He hasn’t said shit.

    Why do you guys make it sound like Melo is pissed off at the situation?

    Because that’s what his people have leaked to the media.

    Melo is reportedly frustrated that the Knicks put trade talks on the hold with the Rockets (@NYDailyNews).— Hoop Central (@TheHoopCentral) July 14, 2017

    there are at least two links on this original post saying he won’t talk to the Knicks about returning and only wants to be traded.

    I think he would much rather stay than go to any non Cavs/Rockets team.

    I think he would much rather stay than go to any non Cavs/Rockets team.

    And I would hope the Knicks FO would rather he play his contract out here for a year than trade him for another shitty contract that takes up more cap room down the road.

    @76

    It can be argued that saying the things Phil said publicly was poor judgement in a political sense, but since everyone on God’s green earth already knew everything he said was true anyway, there’s no way it damaged his trade value or should have antagonized Melo.

    There are a few things hurting Melo’s trade value.

    1. The NTC is limiting the free market’s ability to set the fair price because we don’t have 2-3 teams bidding.

    2. Melo is old

    3. Melo is declining.

    4. Melo plays no defense.

    5. Melo is a ball stopper

    6. Melo is not an efficient scorer.

    7. Melo is a primadona coach and president killer

    I still can’t believe how much Doc Rivers got out of Morey in that CP3 trade.

    I don’t know this, but I’d be willing to bet Jerry West had something to do with that. The Clippers were in a terrible position losing CP3, but they managed to get a decent return, sign Gallo, and bring in a highly regarded pass first PG from Europe. Those are all good moves after having been managed horribly since Doc got there. What changed? West!

    There are a few things hurting Melo’s trade value.

    1. The NTC is limiting the free market’s ability to set the fair price because we don’t have 2-3 teams bidding.

    2. Melo is old

    3. Melo is declining.

    4. Melo plays no defense.

    5. Melo is a ball stopper

    6. Melo is not an efficient scorer.

    7. Melo is a primadona coach and president killer

    8. Melo has a terrible contract given 2-7

    There’s no doubt that the primary reason we can’t get assets back for Melo is that Melo is not very good. That makes it all the more important to not take additional steps to diminish his value, as Phil Jackson did for reasons that only he knows. It also makes it more important to not think you can build a team around Melo, Derrick Rose, and Joakim Noah which Phil Jackson also tried to do.

    But Phil was also stuck with the NTC that some other GM moronically gave Melo. So you can’t blame Phil for that.

    I just wish assuming that Lebron is going to opt out after the season that Gilbert trades off Kyrie, Love and TT for picks now and leave James to play with his guys JR, Shump, etc that he HAD to have.

    One would have to think Philly would give a basket of picks for Kyrie (or someone else) Love could bring big picks from the West (MN, Portland, LA).

    Gilbert is a bazillionaire and got his title and received a big FU from James earlier and is about to get another one so why not break it down and give the old middle finger to James on the way out the door.

    I am Italian, if you couldn’t guess 🙂

    Lebron’s position really is strange. Who the heck asks a team to make moves specifically geared towards you when you’re probably leaving? All he has to do is make some statement like, “I vow not to leave next year” or something like that. And if Gilbert still dicks you around, then okay, you have a legit grievance, since you’d done so much for the team. But right now, it just comes off as silly – “Please remake the team for me. Oh, and I will be leaving next year.”

    I agree w/ Strat’s list.

    I’m not convinced Melo is the locker room cancer that we think he is. My hope is that we actually have a coach who can make his own decisions now. Let Horny manage his minutes and his fit.

    Jackson is the real F’up here…..gave the guy an untradeable deal suitable for a superstar, and then trash talked him publicly 2 yrs later and took his value down.

    It is interesting how players all over the league want him on their side…..Paul, Nene, McCollum, Lebron. What do they know that we don’t?

    It is interesting how players all over the league want him on their side…..Paul, Nene, McCollum, Lebron. What do they know that we don’t?

    Nuttin’.

    As far as I’m concerned, Melo is a really really good player. I’m a fan and I hate to hear people talk about Melo like he’s a scrub. People should really give him the credit he’s due. His style may only fit a few schemes, but it doesn’t make him terrible. I don’t want him on the team at this point either, but I’m not gonna talk about him like he’s a bum. That said- his narrow-minded approach to the game makes him come off as selfish. I have no doubt that he wants to win. But he also wants his money, and that’s where his narrow-mindedness comes into play. His whole career, from prep until now, he’s been the man. He’s taken that load and never shared it. So when you play “the way how he play” (lol) it’s easier to get stuck with the “I’ve got to do it all myself” mentality. Ewing had it as well. Maybe not quite to the extent Melo has it, but he had it. It’s a hard thing to give up when you’re so good at it.

    I’m not trying to make excuses for him- he does need to find that balance which will in turn make him more effective and successful. His entire basketball life he’s been told to shoot it, and his teams are his- and it stuck. That’s very unfortunate considering how good a player he is. But the game has changed, and that narrow, single minded way of thinking doesn’t help him succeed the way he’s used to succeeding anymore. He ABSOLUTELY needs to realize that and make some changes. It’s not an easy thing. Going somewhere where he can just play without thinking so much is best for him in today’s NBA. There are only 2 teams suited to give that to him. Cleveland and Houston. He could still win in San Antonio, but he’d have to think more to fit in Pop’s system. It would take a while to play without thinking there. He’s at a point where he should really study Vinnie Johnson and accept his hired gun status without the pressure of always having to be “The Man”. The ego born from his single-mindedness is getting in the way.

    It is interesting how players all over the league want him on their side…..Paul, Nene, McCollum, Lebron. What do they know that we don’t?

    That being hard to defend has very little to do with his well-below-average eFG%. Players contest all shots but those similar to 20-foot Joakim Noah jumpers.

    There are lots of guys at the gym who can cross me up and have me looking like the low-athleticism pick-up scrub that I am. Many of those guys also couldn’t hit a fadeaway midrange shot to save their lives. I might consider them skilled because of the challenge I have staying in front of them, but their conversion rate is ultimately the indicator of their productivity. If Carmelo’s skill does not lead to efficiency, it doesn’t matter what they think.

    Being well-regarding by your peers doesn’t make you a great player. It just makes you well-regarded.

    Bringing up the fact that players like Melo is a counter to the “lockerroom cancer” narrative. You can’t be cancer to the team if nearly every player in the league adores you.

    I don’t think Melo would agree to a 1-year buyout where he waives his player option. 28m is a lot to make up especially if he’s mediocre this year. But for the sake of argument let’s say he would. He could then join Rockets at the min – they wouldn’t have to give up Ryan Anderson. At the same time the buyout happens, we trade the Rockets Kuz for Hartenstein, 2020 draft pick and 2nd round pick. Everybody’s happy. Is it legal though? Maybe it would be cleared by league if just Hartenstein and 2nd round pick for Kuz. Or maybe we include KOQ.

    Melo is in many ways the product of a generation, the post-Jordan NBA… the NBA of Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, a generation of one-man army type players who were supremely talented and expected to carry the load for their teams.

    A lot of focus on points, highlights, being able to dribble over your opponent, clutch shots, creating your own offense with your talent, while the rest of the team is expected to support you and defend / rebound etc.

    I wouldnt say he’s necessarily selfish or a primadonna on the court… was Kobe a selfish player? If you look at his usage, well yes, but that’s how those players saw the game. I’m the star, Im the most skilled player, therefore I have green light to shoot whenever I want and I can cut down corners everywhere else because that’s the job of my teammates. Kobe and McGrady were specially good in this context because they provided much outside of scoring (Kobe was a legit superstar defender when engaged and T-Mac was a marvellous passer), but Melo, as he got older, became a much more one dimensional player who simply seems unable to reinvent his playstyle.

    Cock, I respect your opinions. I’m guessing Chris Paul knows 10 times more about bball than any of us do, even with advanced stats. I know he’s never won, but I think he knows what makes a winner. These guys want Melo on their team. That has to say something about how they value him

    I came here to say something and I already see it being mentioned throughout this thread.

    Our front actually sounds a little smart recently. They’re handling the impossible Melo situation about as well as they can. And I liked how Mills went out of his way to say Frank would have been his guy, too.

    I’m not willing to overlook the Hardaway and Baker contracts, but I’m a little encouraged.

    Cock, I respect your opinions. I’m guessing Chris Paul knows 10 times more about bball than any of us do, even with advanced stats. I know he’s never won, but I think he knows what makes a winner. These guys want Melo on their team. That has to say something about how they value him

    Then FFS…. let them pay for him if they want him so much!

    About player’s opinions, I refer to Wade’ s tweet about THJ signing “real hoopers know”, or Lou Williams bizarre tirade against “stat nerds” ruining basketball.

    I think Chris Paul knows a lot more about how to play basketball than any analyst. I don’t think he knows more about how to build a proper team or how to properly evaluate players, no.

    Isiah Thomas was a genius on the court, you know…

    As far as I’m concerned, Melo is a really really good player.

    Thing is, he’s not really anymore. He was quite good in 2012-2013 and then again in 2013-2014, but since signing the MMM contract he has been very pedestrian.

    These past three years, he’s been a dude with mediocre efficiency (.530 TS%) and sky-high usage (30.0). Last year he became allergic to passing and rebounding, and played horrific defense. He gave zero shits last year, and he’ll give zero shits again if he’s still on the team.

    At this stage of his career he is just not that good and I’m afraid that is factorial.

    Larry Bird was fucking amazing at basketball and yet thought signing Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson to big money deals was a good idea. If anything, I think playing might allow for emotional blind spots that don’t exist for the nerdy guys.

    52 – yes, melo should stfu just like he has for the past year. There’s no point in him voicing his concerns out in public like this. He should be discussing this with the FO in private if he really has a problem with staying.

    Not sure how that’s being overly critical…but I’m open to a reasonable response if you have one

    Not sure how that’s being overly critical…but I’m open to a reasonable response if you have one

    Nah it’s just that he wants to go to Houston so what? How does that affect anything? Phil did way more damage by making it seem like the Knicks were desperate to move him

    I don’t understand why it was ok for Phil to “tell the truth” but not melo?2

    How is Melo the bad guy here? He’s been told for a year that the team doesn’t want him. He finally got to that point himself that he doesn’t want to be here anymore. Isn’t that what all of you wanted??????

    He picked the team he would wave the NTC for. Get it done.

    I don’t understand how this is anything on Melo

    Those quotes make me mad as hell, but you’re right. For one thing, they’re second hand quotes. For another, he probably thinks he’s doing us a favor waiving his NTC for Houston. And frankly, he is.

    I can’t seem to get it working in the trade machine but can we swap er for reub?

    All I’m saying is that Melo needs to do what he did for Denver when he forced the trade here. Say publicly that he is open to the idea of being traded to a few other teams and that will force Houston to work this out like it forced us to work it out for him instead of him going to The Nets.

    Melo only did that because he was afraid he’d lose millions of dollars if we waited to the offseason (i.e. after the new CBA) to sign him as a free agent. He only helped Denver incidentally bc helping them helped him.

    There’s no advantage to him helping us now. He’s not going to.

    he probably thinks he’s doing us a favor waiving his NTC for Houston. And frankly, he is.

    We would have to take on Ryan Anderson’s contract from the team he wants to be traded to and he’s the one doing us a favor? You’re shitting me, right?

    Btw, I’m not averse to taking a shit ton of later-future picks from Houston or whoever to make the trade work. If its like 2020 and on, I’d take two first rounders, at least two seconds, Anderson, Quarterman, and whoever else. We’re giving them an “all star” or whatever they think he is, AND taking on Anderson. I’m not against taking him, but only with really good compensation. I don’t see them being as good in a few yrs given their age anyway. And I sure as hell don’t see us being good for a bit.

    @112
    That’s pretty much exactly what I’ve been saying for awhile.

    I wonder what Houston is actually willing to give up in a straight up deal for Melo? If only Anderson and a couple of non-guaranteed contracts, I’d hang up.

    If that and a 2020 first round pick, I’d stay on the line but say I need more. Add Hartenstein’s rights or a 2022 first round pick, and I’d do it if nothing better seems likely. If you can squeeze them for a 2nd rounder or two, that’s great, but I’d hold out for at least two good pieces (first rounders).

    You know who has a sweet PG? The Beikong Fly Dragons:
    “So the story goes like this. I’m staying in Beijing for my last and final season. The other Beijing team. I have to put on for the city no matter the team. It’s a different mission and vision over here in the JING. The fans said stay so I’m staying. They said “we will love you no matter where you go” It’s hard to leave that type of love. Thanking God for another contract! #Blessed by the most high. #loveislove #starbury”

    1. Trade Melo and get back some combination of a young player, pick, cap space, but no bad contracts.

    This is delusional, either you eat the bad contracts and get picks in return, or get short contracts with little else.

    The sticking point may be shipping the middle-of-the-road contracts (Ryan Anderson) to some team that actually needs them for bad contracts+picks (or short contracts).

    You should notice that because of the recent spike in cap room, there are no bad players with big short contracts to make the trade easier.

    Scott Layden says he's not sure why Knicks didn't draft Jamal Crawford in 2000. "I might still be in New York," he said— Jerry Zgoda (@JerryZgoda) July 19, 2017

    @117 I had to look it up because it seemed to make no sense. Lo and behold, Crawford went at 8 while the Knicks picked at 22. Miss ya, Scott.

    It’s funny how predictable this all was 3 years ago when he was re-signed. This is right up there with water is wet and death and taxes.

    Of the options everyone has laid out in this thread, I can most swallow a 1 year buy out with melo opting out of his option year and promising to sign with Houston (I don’t want to see him on Cleve; I want him far away). I’d put that on the table to him right now, and if he declines that I would leak it to the press. Play Dotson and Lance at the 3 this year and we start over fresh next year with tons of cap space and a lottery pick.

    Cock, I respect your opinions. I’m guessing Chris Paul knows 10 times more about bball than any of us do, even with advanced stats. I know he’s never won, but I think he knows what makes a winner. These guys want Melo on their team. That has to say something about how they value him

    Chris Paul is one of those guys who sees the game differently from most players. He’s the Point God and with great justification: I think he’s a top-3 all-time PG, somewhere jammed in there with Magic and Stockton. He’s never not been good. He is a dominant, agile scorer; sees the floor like he’s six inches taller; is a plus-rebounder and seems to know where the ball should go or will go before it does. I don’t think there is a single flaw in his game, and he’s pretty old for a short PG. That he had one of his best (albeit short) seasons this last year is incredible. It makes you wish that the Knicks had been smart enough to trade the farm for him back in 2005.

    How he views his peers — especially those he plays 3-4 times a year, as well as some game tape — is irrelevant when it comes to player production. It has literally nothing to do with whether a player generates those marginal points over average that win basketball games. Consider baseball idiot Joe Morgan: statistically one of the greatest players at his position, who spoke out against the very statistics that made his claim to greatness with objectivity and accuracy.

    The last few years, Carmelo’s value has stalled at “below-average NBA player,” not “below-average NBA star.” He is a losing player, full stop. If you want to argue that he doesn’t play his hardest, fine. If you want to argue that Paul and other legit superstars think he’s also a star player, fine. If you want to argue that he actually was a plus player in 2016-17, you are objectively wrong.

    @53. Sure. Before I do, let me clarify, again, that I think Melo deserves a lot of the criticism he gets here and is by no means devoid of responsibility for where we are.

    That said. Some time ago, Melo led the Knicks to a great season. A year later, Phil paid top dollar to keep him. A year after that he tried to bring in ‘win now’ players and won 30ish games. Then he scrapped them and made some even more ‘win now’ moves and won 30ish games again. All of that is totally on Phil – Melo made clear he wanted them to be in win now mode but Phil made the call to pursue that path and made the choices about how.

    At ANY time Phil wanted to he could have sat down with Melo and had an honest discussion about how the team needed to rebuild, and given him a choice to be part of that or to accept a trade. Melo practically invited that discussion multiple times. Instead he pursued a strategy of passive aggressive Jedi mind games through third parties in the media trying to make it sound like the reason the knicks weren’t winning was because Melo was the same player he’s always been and not because we were paying Noah $20m not to play and rose $20m not to pass or defend. Phil trashed Melo through third parties to shift accountability for trying and failing to win.

    Whatever you think of Melo the player or Melo the man that is shitty management of a person and flat-out negligent management of assets.

    . Instead he pursued a strategy of passive aggressive Jedi mind games through third parties in the media trying to make it sound like the reason the knicks weren’t winning was because Melo was the same player he’s always been and not because we were paying Noah $20m not to play and rose $20m not to pass or defend

    Its even worse. Melo wasn’t the same player “he’s always been” after he signed that extension. Go look at his WS/48 the past three seasons since turning 30. He aged really fast and very badly.

    Negligent management of assets is not the same as treating a player “appallingly.” Phil’s comments were fairly mild; you should try looking at a transcript of what he actually said. I think it was stupid to say anything like that, but “appallling?” Laughable.

    Side note: when I went to change my user name, I saw the dashboard had space for a description of myself. This is what I had put, way back when:

    “My last eight years in mental institutions is in no way related to the relative lack of success of Frank Layden and Isaiah Thomas. Go Knicks!”

    The more things change….

    Yep – what Phil said himself was was pretty mild. I even said as much on this board the day he said it.

    What he has Charlie Rosen say through a half-asses self published fan-blog because part of the mind game is not to say this stuff yourself was worse. And the tactic of not saying it yourself or to his face but playing it out through the media was pretty close to appalling. If I did that to one of my employees I’d expect every criticism that came my way.

    I would trade Melo for Anderson + Houston’s 2020 and 2022 first round pick.

    We are going nowhere in the next couple of years, so Anderson is irrelevant, just sit him on the bench and let him collect his paycheck. By 2020 there is a real chance that Houston gonna suck and those picks will became assets.

    Morey doesn’t seems like a guy who will compromise the franchise’s future for Carmelo Anthony, tho.

    This is delusional, either you eat the bad contracts and get picks in return, or get short contracts with little else.

    The deal being floated at it’s core was:

    The Knicks get Harkless, some cap space, and another player .

    Portland gets Anderson.

    Leonard finds a home that would yield a player that NY could accept.

    The problem was that Portland wanted compensation for Anderson even though they were dumping Leonard’s smaller bad contract and whoever takes Leonard is going to want compensation also. There aren’t enough picks to go around.

    However, if you find a home for Leonard that yields something the Knicks could live with (an expiring contract, a veteran PG etc..) the deal gets done. The Knicks would get a young player with upside on a reasonable contract (Harkless) and cap space both this year and next year. That’s the best case scenario in my view unless we deal directly with Portland. Then they substitute a player we could live with instead of Leonard. They might do that because they want Melo and aren’t taking on Anderson.

    To summarize today’s thread…Melo sucks…it’s Melo’s fault he is selfish…it’s not Melo’s fault we gave him a NTC.

    Wait…we gave $18mm AAV and a NTC and a trade kicker to Timmy Fucking Hardaway. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    I am no longer a Knicks fan.

    “This is delusional, either you eat the bad contracts and get picks in return, or get short contracts with little else”

    So you’re saying that Melo has essentially no value? I know that is the prevailing opinion on this blog, but Chris Paul and Lebron amongst others seem to feel differently about that. I think some decent asset (Harkless or someone else with a reasonable contract) and a future first round pick doesn’t sound unreasonable.

    At ANY time Phil wanted to he could have sat down with Melo and had an honest discussion about how the team needed to rebuild, and given him a choice to be part of that or to accept a trade. Melo practically invited that discussion multiple times. Instead he pursued a strategy of passive aggressive Jedi mind games through third parties in the media .

    This is the reality.

    Phil was on the path to a total rebuild and said as much when he cleaned house and produced a team that won 17 games. Even Bill Bradley said as much after talking to Phil . We got Porzingis later that year in the draft. The team of Porzingis, Lopez, Grant, filler short term contracts etc… was the first step in the TOTAL rebuild. They won 32 games.

    That’s when he screwed up.

    He screwed up trying to appease Melo who was obviously anxious to be on team that could compete and that team was still quite awhile away given the lack of picks and assets.

    His attempt to speed it up resulted in Rose, Noah, and a switch away from pure triangle into a hybrid offensive system where Rose, Melo, and Hornacek would be happier.

    By mid season he realized several things.

    1. He made a bad move going off course.
    2. Melo was giving the coaching staff grief & a was bad influence on KP
    3. There was no chance he could get back on Melo’s timetable.
    4. If he was going to go down in flames he might as well go down on his own terms playing the triangle.

    He then communicated to Melo (and the public) that they’d both be better off if the Knicks resumed the rebuild the right way and Melo go elsewhere.

    Charley Rosen may be his friend, agree with Phil on basketball, and may have written more detailed negative evaluations on players, but that’s what he does for a living discussing players all over the league.

    I would trade Melo for Anderson + Houston’s 2020 and 2022 first round pick.

    Similar but better trades are available with Cleveland. Frye, Shumpert, Jefferson only have 1-2 years on their contracts. And their future picks are likely to be more valuable than Houston’s.

    With their stars openly unhappy about the lack of improvement this year, I have to think they’re willing to give up a couple future picks to add Melo to their roster without sacrificing Love or Thompson.

    Phil made several key mistakes.

    1. Thinking he could get Melo to change and become a more efficient player that would move the ball and buy into his style of play after both Karl and MDA failed at exactly that same thing. Had he realized he was on a fools errand, he would have traded Melo when he was a free agent and gotten back something of value.

    2. He compounded the first error in the contract negotiations when he gave him the NTC. I’ve always speculated that he gave him that in return for the small discount that Melo gave the team, but either way it was a mistake. I’m sure he was assuming Melo WAS going to change his stripes and he’d never trade him to begin with.

    3. Signing Noah for 4 years.

    Most of the other signings and deals everyone else complains about were short term filler contracts, they accelerated cap space, or involved giving away a decent asset to get rid of a bad asset quicker and jump start the rebuild. They were not damaging.

    er –

    So to answer your ? – “So what if he said he wants to go to houston/how does it affect anything”

    When Melo said that publicly (via Woj), it became common knowledge to all teams entertaining the thought of acquiring Carmelo. This knowledge acts as a deterrent for any FO to truly consider putting together a compelling deal to offer the NYK, because:

    Since he is apparently not open minded to playing in NY at this point – Teams don’t have the urgency on them to make something happen, since Melo will either force a buyout or just leave after next year if he stays put in NY this season.

    Picture this – If melo had just kept everything in house (ie: not via woj) with respect to his preferences for teams to be traded to, the FO could have went to those same teams under the (admittedly flimsy) guise of “Carmelo anthony is the missing piece to your team” and make up bogus PR releases of other teams calling for Melo’s services – rather than the current negotiation “Carmelo anthony realllly wants to play for you and you alone, and all your base are belong to us”

    Gold club, if you are no longer a knick fan……why post? and btw, do they still have the lunch buffet at the gold club?

    I can’t seem to get it working in the trade machine but can we swap er for reub?

    That’s really a cheap sh0t. I’ll read er’s posts all day, he may be too loyal to Melo but he’s not a freakin’ idiot like reub.

    He screwed up trying to appease Melo who was obviously anxious to be on team that could compete and that team was still quite awhile away given the lack of picks and assets.

    His attempt to speed it up resulted in Rose, Noah, and a switch away from pure triangle into a hybrid offensive system where Rose, Melo, and Hornacek would be happier.

    I would just leave it at “he screwed up”. Phil doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who ever wanted to appease Melo. I think he made those moves bc he was a bad GM, and he thought they were good moves that would make the team a contender.

    . If he was going to go down in flames he might as well go down on his own terms playing the triangle.

    More like:

    If he was going to go down in flames he might as well piss off the entire organization and fan base by doing the unthinkable and fucking with Kristaps Porzingis so he could get himself fired and collect $24 million in the process.

    When Melo said that publicly (via Woj), it became common knowledge to all teams entertaining the thought of acquiring Carmelo.

    We don’t know that Melo leaked that to Woj. For all we know, Chris Paul did.

    So you’re saying that Melo has essentially no value? I know that is the prevailing opinion on this blog, but Chris Paul and Lebron amongst others seem to feel differently about that. I think some decent asset (Harkless or someone else with a reasonable contract) and a future first round pick doesn’t sound unreasonable.

    Not really. I am saying that there arent bad players who are expiring to fill the trade. You have bad players with big contracts (given after the cap increase) and expiring contracts which are not that bad (because they come from deals before the cap increase) and are viewed as valuable assets on their own by their teams.

    So it is very difficult to get one of those deals in which we dont receive bad contracts and we get some picks or youth attached. Specially, given the limited trading patners (Hou, Cle).

    My bad on the NTC…but the 15% trade kicker is awful on an already overpriced contract.

    Why post — not so easy to kick the codependent relationship.

    With regard to the buffet…According to Ewing, “The girls danced, started fondling me, I got aroused, they performed oral sex. I hung around a little bit and talked to them, then I left.”

    paul will get the best out of melo no question and we all will be impressed by melo and his transformation. Third tier star who can create off mismatches and score in the clutch.

    It’s a waiting game and mills is doing a good job of being patient unlike previous regimes but I’m resigned to seeing Anderson starting at the three for us next three years. We are over a barrel in these negotiations.

    Gold, thanks for reminding me. I think i’m going to take a raincheck on the buffet though. I’ll eat before I go

    @129 In your example, if we get Harkless, we still need to receive another contract. Which could be the horrible contract of Evan Turner, or the slightly less horrible contract of Allen Crabbe (which is not too different from TH2’s).

    Personally, I dont mind the bad contracts as long as we get something like picks, etc.

    Personally, I dont mind the bad contracts as long as we get something like picks, etc.

    I think the hold up would be getting enough picks considering were both giving up Melo and taking on a bad contract. In addition, we’re trading with a contender who is likely to have low value 1st round picks. 4 years from now it would have been nice to sign a piece to complement Frank, KP, and Willy.

    I think the hold up would be getting enough picks considering were both giving up Melo and taking on a bad contract. In addition, we’re trading with a contender who is likely to have low value 1st round picks. 4 years from now it would have been nice to sign a piece to complement Frank, KP, and Willy.

    Yes, but with Noah’s contract taking a large chunk of cap space, we will not do anything useful in FA.

    So, as long as eating an extra year (compared to Melos contracts) is paid the going rate for renting cap space (actually, the Nets got something nice for taking Demarre’s Carroll contracts) plus something for Melo’s value, then it is fine.

    So, as long as eating an extra year (compared to Melos contracts) is paid the going rate for renting cap space (actually, the Nets got something nice for taking Demarre’s Carroll contracts) plus something for Melo’s value, then it is fine.

    Yeah, but that “something nice” is going to be what? 3 1st round draft picks with some protections (2 for Melo, 1 for taking the bad contract), a handful of second rounders and a young player? Who besides Isiah Thomas gives away that many draft picks?

    It’s interesting how people are good at some things and bad at others. Paul Simon said we’re all one trick ponies and it’s probably true. CP3 might actually be a shitty GM. We don’t know but it’s possible. Phil was. He could make the meal but was a shitty grocery shopper, to paraphrase Bill Parcells.

    The super star love for Melo might be a bit overstated. No doubt those guys like him but they won’t lose any sleep over having him or not if their team succeeds. I can see them saying nice things in the press based on personal alliegance. I can even see Paul making up a story about LAC with Melo as a main character. Or maybe he believes it.

    Fact is, no matter how NYK messed up in the past, there’s a right and a wrong way to go now. Taking on 60 million and an extra year of not better production for a 55 million dollar deal is probably wrong. Even a shitty GM should be able to figure that one out.

    We should move Melo while we can. Would Anderson, Qi, Hartenstein plus a #1 not be sufficient?

    I look forward to the day when we don’t have to ever write about Melo again here and can finally focus on an exciting future with our young promising core. But that day should not come at the expense of another shitty contract.

    It’s a waiting game and mills is doing a good job of being patient unlike previous regimes but I’m resigned to seeing Anderson starting at the three for us next three years. We are over a barrel in these negotiations.

    I see the Blazers are recruiting Melo.

    I like Perry already. Waiting for options to open.

    Even with the Blazers, we have to take back an uninspiring package centered around Portland’s 1st round pick next year, Meyers Leonard, and Moe Harkless.

    I’d much rather talk about MKG.

    When Melo said that publicly (via Woj), it became common knowledge to all teams entertaining the thought of acquiring Carmelo. This knowledge acts as a deterrent for any FO to truly consider putting together a compelling deal to offer the NYK, because:

    Since he is apparently not open minded to playing in NY at this point – Teams don’t have the urgency on them to make something happen, since Melo will either force a buyout or just leave after next year if he stays put in NY this season.

    Picture this – If melo had just kept everything in house (ie: not via woj) with respect to his preferences for teams to be traded to, the FO could have went to those same teams under the (admittedly flimsy) guise of “Carmelo anthony is the missing piece to your team” and make up bogus PR releases of other teams calling for Melo’s services – rather than the current negotiation “Carmelo anthony realllly wants to play for you and you alone, and all your base are belong to us

    Yeah I don’t think this is possible anymore in 2017. EVERYTHING leaks. Like how do we know sure assuredly that PG13 wants to play for the Lakers. I can’t think of anytime he’s actually said anything
    in public

    I look forward to the day when we don’t have to ever write about Melo again here and can finally focus on an exciting future with our young promising core.

    + 1,000 and one…

    We should move Melo while we can. Would Anderson, Qi, Hartenstein plus a #1 not be sufficient?

    Houston signed Qi to a 4-year deal and the trade machine is showing him as no longer tradeable until August 5. Hartenstein has not been signed yet and is tradeable right away. My fear is that Dotson might be included as a sweetener to a 3rd or 4th team in any Melo deal. Mills didn’t mention him in the press conference when he listed the core of young players on our team.

    I generally wouldn’t care about a 2nd round pick being used in this way but watching Dotson in summer league and reviewing his draft profiles, this would be huge mistake IMO. My guess is he could be better than Timmy and Frank. Dude not only knocks down 3s on closeouts, he’s able to shoot off screens from mid-range and 3. The ability to shoot off screens is a form of “shot creation” (e.g. Korver).

    If he was going to go down in flames he might as well piss off the entire organization and fan base by doing the unthinkable and fucking with Kristaps Porzingis so he could get himself fired and collect $24 million in the process.

    yeah, definitely started seeming like phil was on the george costanza path toward figuring out how to get away from his current employer…

    should have just showed up at one of jimmy’s gigs and started heckling…

    I think the Knicks do have a good opportunity arising right now, with Portland’s delusional ideas about getting Melo.

    They’re probably desperate and realize they fucked up really hard with this roster… set up a deal that takes Crabbe and Leonard away from their team in exchange for multiple future first rounders, 2018, 2020 etc. The Blazers will still have a terrible defense and getting future 1st rounders from small market teams is always a good idea.

    call Melo, tell him this is the sort of deal the Knicks are looking for. If he refuses to even talk to the Blazers, wait until the Rockets get worked up about the Blazers negotiations and up their offer slightly at least.

    I don’t really trust Mills to conduct this process, but maybe Perry can pull it off?

    More on Dotson and why I hope he’s not included as a sweetener in any Melo deal. I think there’s a strong chance he is part of a trade because there’s just no minutes for him on the roster.

    On 195 catch and shoot jumpers logged by Synergy Sports Technology he converted 47.2% of his attempts, which ranked fifth among all D-1 players with at least 150 attempts. He is deadly from spot-up situations or on the move, either off cuts or running off screens as he sees the floor well and is able to get to his spots

    Dotson is a terrific shooter off the dribble

    Dotson’s 6.3 defensive rebounds per 40 minutes ranks third among shooting guards in our top 100.

    His best athletic tool is his open court speed which allows him to get up and down the floor in transition where he scores an efficient 1.2 points per possession. He doesn’t dominate the game with his athleticism, but relies more on his skill-level and basketball IQ to read the floor and make the right play.

    Dotson has impressed with his passing skills in the pre-draft process, averaging 7 assists per-40 minutes in five games at the NBA Combine and PIT

    I hope we don’t just throw Dotson into a trade but let’s not get carried away about his potential. There is almost no chance he ends up a better player than Hardaway, and if he is better than Frank then that means Frank was a total bust. Dotson is 24, only one year younger than Hardaway.

    He was good in summer league but that doesn’t mean much. He projects as a role player and if we’re lucky he replicates what Holiday gave us.

    I can think of zero reasons why Melo would ok a deal to Portland. They might not even be a playoff team, and none of his banana boat buddies are there either.

    And if he’s going to move 3000 miles away, it would have to be LA.

    I dont think Melo would ever move to Portland.

    But using the Blazers interest is the closest the Knicks have to some sort of leverage now. Negotiate the terms of a trade with the Blazers (that would be more beneficial than the shit buffet Houston has been offering), and force Houston to match. If they don’t, tell Melo it’s either Portland or stay in N.Y.

    That way this could create a scenario where either Houston ups their offer, then the Knicks accept and all is well, or leave Melo on the roster fighting for minutes with the young dudes and have him opt out next year.

    @BlazerFreeman
    Damian Lillard and CJ McCollum said they each have reached out to Carmelo Anthony in an effort to sell him on the Blazers.

    Dotson is 24, only one year younger than Hardaway.

    He just turned 23yo.

    There is almost no chance he ends up a better player than Hardaway

    He’s already a much better shooter than Timmy (and we are talking about the SG position) and rates to be a better rebounder. Hard to believe he would be a worse defender. Other things like passing remain to be determined.

    He was good in summer league but that doesn’t mean much.

    Shooting 48% on 25+ 3FGA seems relevant.

    I think a combination of Lillard, McCollum and Melo would be the worst defensive 1-3 lineup in the NBA. Those guys would have to score 120 points to win a given night.

    why wasn’t Dotson a good rebounder until he started playing in the American Athletic Conference when he was 21?

    I was wrong about Dotson’s age but I still don’t see much offensive potential outside of catch and shoot 3s. I think he will have some value but I don’t see much else in his game. My hope is a 3 and D wing off the bench. I also see him as more of a SF than a SG. He didn’t really display the ball skills at Houston (or summer league even) to suggest he can be a full time SG, luckily he is a good rebounder so he should be okay at SF.

    As for Hardaway people need to stop the bad defense angle with him. He was an above average defender last year. If Dotson is as good defensively as Hardaway that is a good thing. Hardaway is not at all the same player we traded to Atlanta. He has turned himself into both a good defender and an efficient scorer. The fact that he can be so efficient despite only being average from 3 is impressive and shows a place for him to grow.

    If Dotson turns out better than Hardaway he will have been a total homerun and one of the top 20 players in this draft. That seems unlikely.

    As for Hardaway people need to stop the bad defense angle with him. He was an above average defender last year. If

    Based on what?

    As for Hardaway people need to stop the bad defense angle with him. He was an above average defender last year.

    According to what metric?

    I also see him as more of a SF than a SG. He didn’t really display the ball skills at Houston (or summer league even) to suggest he can be a full time SG, luckily he is a good rebounder so he should be okay at SF.

    According to Fansided, an average SF has a 6’7″ height. From the SF that had around 15000 career minutes or more the average is 6’9″.

    Dotson is 6’5″. I don’t think it would be very wise to put a 2nd round rookie to play out of his position without having the physical tools to succeed.

    He’s gonna be the 12th player this year unless Lee or THJ gets hurt.

    I was wrong about Dotson’s age but I still don’t see much offensive potential outside of catch and shoot 3s.

    Regarding spot-ups, he’s able shoot a high % against closeouts and his range appears to extend beyond the 3 arc. But the key is that he’s a more versatile shooter than just a spot up guy. He also is able to score off cuts and shoot off screens. Zach Lowe once wrote an article on how SGs who are able to dash all about and then shoot off screens are in effect shot creators. He used Korver as a prime example. In reading the draft reports, I couldn’t find any obvious major weakness; the main knock against Dotson was that he’s not a traditional shot creator. But how many SGs are? You have a few elite SGs like Harden and Butler and then the rest.

    Melo to Portlandia would be so awesome for us. They would be at best a 45 win team and we could grab a top 20 pick from them. What we really should be gunning for is Portland’s 2018 1st round pick and swap rights on the 2019 1st. They’re going to be asking us to take a lot of bad contracts back for Melo provided they don’t find a 3rd team, and the salary dump is worth the 1st rounder. Melo himself is worth a 1st round pick (if Lou Williams and Bojan Bogdanovic are worth 1st round picks then so is Melo). That 2019 1st could be so sweet; Melo is going to leave Portland after a year to form the Banana Boat, and they will whiff in free agency so they will likely be a lottery team unless Dame Lillard turns into Russell Westbrook.

    Hardaway played on the 4th best defensive team in the NBA last year. The Hawks were basically the same defensively with him on or off the court (0.4 pts worse). Hardaway forced his man to shoot 3.5% lower on all field goals and 2.9% worse on 3 pointers. As a SG he held his man to a PER of 11.6.

    Plus all of the Hawks bloggers talked at length about his improved defense. I have heard some other stats that I couldn’t find like he was better than 80% of all SGs when it came to opponent FG% but I cannot confirm it.

    I don’t think he’s a plus defender but he certainly appears to be above average at this point even if only slightly.

    Realistically speaking, Damyean Dotson projects to be, best case, a better shooting version of Jeremy Lamb. That’s really valuable I think.

    As for a Portland trade that would be great:

    Here’s mine:

    Harkless, Ed Davis (expiring), Napier (expiring) Swanigan (tradable August 1st), and one of their minimum non-guaranteed contracts (Connaughton or Layman), 2018 1st – lottery protected.

    Hardaway played on the 4th best defensive team in the NBA last year. The Hawks were basically the same defensively with him on or off the court (0.4 pts worse). Hardaway forced his man to shoot 3.5% lower on all field goals and 2.9% worse on 3 pointers

    Those shooting % against metrics are not, at least at this point, particularly compelling arguments in favor of a players defensive skill. See this article It’s definitely good that Timmy has shown he can be a part of a good defense, but I am not sure that means he is certainly an above average defender himself, or perhaps a better way to put it would be that I’m not sure it means he will be an above average defender on the Knicks.

    Even with the Blazers, we have to take back an uninspiring package

    I’ve been told I have an uninspiring package. But, that’s without advanced metrics.

    Please Lillard and McCollum, make it happen!!

    Portland’s defense with Melo is a mess I can’t wait to see, plus the added bonus thag Nurkic might punch one of them on court after the 89th drive in a row.

    Get Crabbe + Leonard plus 2018 and 2019 or 20 and call it.

    When I say above average I mean slightly. Even if Hardaway is slightly below average that is still much different than how many people here talk about him as a defender.

    I would rate him in the 45-55% percentile as a wing defender. Solidly average, I would say based on last year slightly above but I can certainly see an argument for slightly below. I actually don’t think he moves the defensive needle much in either direction but he certainly isn’t a trainwreck as many here describe him.

    top 3 team in the West hayahah

    Kawhi Leonard and James Harden are planning to retire then?

    let’s please take advantage of some other team’s delusion of grandeur, please Knicks, for once.

    Report: #TrailBlazers were pitching to #Knicks star SF Carmelo Anthony 2 go 2 #Blazers 2 help Melo build tech investments w owner Paul Allen— @kc1nyk (@kylecohenNBA) July 19,

    This might pique Melo’s interest a la Dirk and Cuban. If there’s a trade, I would want it to be Melo/Lance/Kuz for Harkless/Crabbe. No picks involved. Harkless and Crabbe could play SF. Portland could really use Lance’s 3&D capability in a Lillard/McCollum/Melo lineup (Melo at the 4). Also, including Lance/Kuz would free up some cap to maybe sign Sessions on a 1 year deal.

    The reality, however, would be that we end up taking Turner and Harkless and Evan plays the 1 for us. Turner is the type of player that makes non-analytics guys like Zeke and Mills swoon.

    The best think about melo going to Portland is (I think) that’s where Cock Jowles lives.

    Lance is a career 41% shooter from 3. Melo is no longer able to guard 3s (maybe never was) and has to play the 4 for Portland or that lineup would be a joke on defense. Lance would be a nice fit for Portland – low usage guy who could make 3s off Lillard/Melo/McCollum dishes and play decent defense. Wouldn’t need him to do much more than that.

    Portland has Crabbe, Harkless, Turner and Aminu, all who play the 3… even if they trade two of them, there’s not much reason to get Lance Thomas.

    well, there’s no much reason to get Lance Thomas, period.

    Lance is a 3 and D specialist who does the spacing and is a great locker room guy.

    The best think about melo going to Portland is (I think) that’s where Cock Jowles lives.

    holy shit you’re right

    This might pique Melo’s interest a la Dirk and Cuban. I

    Melo is about his pocketbook so there it is.

    The only thing that Lance Thomas is good at is 3pt% and he only shot 217 in 6 years.

    He’s a negative defender by BPM and RPM, cant’s pass, rebound, block, or steal.

    He’s the type of player that should be out of the league or on a non-guaranteed minimum contract at most.

    Yet, here he is, earning 7 million for 3 years more. Another major fuck up by Phil.

    At least he doesn’t have a player option.

    Portland has Crabbe, Harkless, Turner and Aminu, all who play the 3… even if they trade two of them, there’s not much reason to get Lance Thomas. well, there’s no much reason to get Lance Thomas, period.

    Napier stinks so Turner would play the 1 and 2 positions and Lance/Aminu the 3 in my trade scenario. Turner and Aminu are lousy from 3 – you really want someone who’s able to drain 3s in a lineup featuring Melo/Lillard/McCollum. People forget Lance in his proper role was an important piece for us a couple of years ago. His 3FG% has held up; injuries derailed him. At Portland, his role would be very defined which would play to his strengths.

    Four possibilities

    1. Melo gets traded in a deal beneficial to our future.
    2. Melo gets traded in a way where optimists try to put a good spin on it but it sucks.
    3. Melo stays: he’s Arod.
    4. Melo gets bought out.

    What’s gonna happen folks?

    @197

    I agree, honestly he’s horrible.

    He only gets a somewhat positive response from Knicks fans because this fan base is so fucked up that any player in the last 10 years who tries a little bit is already seen as a positive player.

    oh, and he’s 29, and his insanely terrible contract will pay him until he’s 32 when he already has an injury history.

    no team is ever taking him unless they absolutely have to, and they’ll want to be compensated.

    @199 – Great question and I hope it happens. #3. Look at the Yankees now. Forget the recent slide. Look at what the farm system produced.

    He only gets a somewhat positive response from Knicks fans because this fan base is so fucked up that any player in the last 10 years who tries a little bit is already seen as a positive player.

    NYK were +3.8 in 2015 when he was on the court. The team was better on both defense and offense. He’s shot 42.2% from 3 on 194 attempts the last 2 seasons. That’s not an aberration since he only took 45 attempts before then. And that’s gonna be what Portland would need him to do on offense in a lineup of Lillard/McCollum/Melo/Nurkic. Nothing else really – just spot up. How many replacement players shoot 42% from 3? On defense I think he’s a decent defender when healthy (DRPM be damned) but his rebounding might be an issue if Melo doesn’t step up. He’s not a guy I would pick if I were starting a team but he makes sense for that Portland team in terms of fit in my scenario. And he’s making 6m/yr, a below average salary in today’s NBA so it’s not some onerous contract.

    BTW the reason I recommend a Melo/Lance/Kuz for Harkless/Crabbe deal is because I think it’s one Portland would accept. I don’t think they’re giving up Harkless and 2 firsts even if they dump Leonard. Crabbe’s an OKish one-dimensional player (I’m being generous) on a bad contract so I don’t think they would miss him. I don’t know if luxury tax is an issue since front office has denied it and owner is one of the richest guys in the world. Melo should generate buzz – more people might watch games on TV. We shed some salary, get two young guys who could improve and are rid of Melo. Don’t like Crabbe or his contract but it’s probably the best we could do.

    Lowe confirms Adrian Wojnarowski's report that Portland will not facilitate an Anthony trade to Houston. Portland will not help.— Sagar Trika (@BlazersBySagar) July 19, 2017

    his insanely terrible contract

    It’s impossible to take people seriously when they write stuff like this. Melo? Hardaway? No, Lance Thomas and his $7 mil per. Yep, that contract has just totally destroyed this franchise.

    An “insanely terrible contract” would be, well, yeah, Noah’s. And even then, “insanely terrible” may be overstating it.

    Interesting tidbit from Lowe’s podcast – the reason Dennis Smith, Jr. wasn’t really in consideration was that the Knicks were never granted access to his medical records. This is the same reason his workout with the team was abruptly canceled. The reporters speculated that Smith’s agent may not have wanted the Knicks to draft him.

    So it makes a lot of sense that we didn’t draft him, you can’t draft a guy who tore his ACL recently and won’t even give access to his medical records.

    It is insanely terrible to give a contract worth this much to this specific player. Of course in terms of how large the contract is it’s not the end of the world, and the Noah contract is obviously worse, but THJ for example has been a more efficient and productive player than Thomas has ever been. Paying 7 million a year to a replacement value player is an insanely terrible contract, when compared to what he should be making

    THJ might have been overpriced but we can expect him to produce at least to 75% of his contract. Do you think Lance Thomas is a 5.5 million per year value player? Or should I simply not take what you say seriously? When did I say his contract destroyed the franchise?

    He’s a -2.6 VORP through his career and has a -1.6 DBPM average.

    +- is a very weird stat but yeah Zanzibar, Ill admit he might have had a more positive impact than what I think, but he took 1.8 threes per game
    last year… of course shooting 44% is valuable and there might be an argument to say he should be getting more attempts, but 1.8 threes a game at 44% is hardly super valuable, and every metric signals that he’s not even a decent player.

    Comments are closed.