Knicks Morning News (2017.07.18)

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks president Steve Mills details aggressive plan that snared Tim Hardaway Jr.
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:33:48 AM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — Tim Hardaway Jr. has never been a full-time starter in the NBA, but the Knicks view him as one and paid him as one. That’s how Knicks president Steve Mills justified giving Hardaway a four-year, $71-million contract.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks’ Steve Mills, Scott Perry to work in tandem
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:27:08 AM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — The Knicks introduced their new management team Monday, with Steve Mills as president and Scott Perry as general manager.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks will not buy out Carmelo Anthony’s contract, president Steve Mills says
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 12:25:07 AM)

    GREENBURGH, N.Y. — New team president Steve Mills wouldn’t rule out Carmelo Anthony being with the Knicks in the fall, but he said they will continue to explore trades for him.

  • [SNY Knicks] Scott Perry, Steve Mills place focus on Knicks’ young core, defense
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 2:35:07 PM)

    “Player development will be a focus of our organization,” said Steve Mills, who noted that he and Perry will “work in tandem in making sure we have a first-class operation.”

  • [SNY Knicks] Mills says Carmelo Anthony won’t be bought out, might stay with Knicks
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 2:10:32 PM)

    Knicks president Steve Mills said the team wanted to “slow down and regroup” regarding a potential trade of Anthony after hiring new GM Scott Perry last week.

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports Today: Carmelo Anthony expects trade talks to resume
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 9:23:13 AM)

  • [ESPN] Knicks’ Mills: Possible Melo could stay put
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 3:17:51 PM)

    Knicks’ Mills: Possible Melo could stay put

  • [NYPost] Steve Mills makes clear who’s really Knicks’ boss now
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 6:00:02 PM)

    Steve Mills wants his new hire Scott Perry to fight for moves he believes in, but ultimately the final decision will be made by the president, not the general manager. “I’m going to give Scott the room to make basketball decisions and make recommendations to me,’’ Mills said at Monday’s press conference to formally announce…

  • [NYPost] Hornacek’s ideal Knicks changes won’t start with the triangle
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 4:56:34 PM)

    Wait a minute. What was going on here? Jeff Hornacek was talking in Westchester on Monday about the Knicks style, and the word “triangle” never was used? By anybody. Guess change really is in the air around the Knicks. So Hornacek spoke more about “defense” than geometric figures. Defense. It’s enough to bring the old…

  • [NYPost] There was something missing from Knicks’ talk: stupidity
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 2:34:27 PM)

    There were promises of hard work and development and cooperation. And there were no grandiose promises of titles, no sickening arrogance when résumés were rubbed in everyone’s face and definitely no follow-up tweets that an ancient languages expert would have trouble deciphering. And during the Knicks’ press conference at their Westchester practice facility, where Steve…

  • [NYPost] New Knicks regime wants credit (or blame) for Frank Ntilikina
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 2:08:19 PM)

    The Knicks’ new president Steve Mills didn’t take a lie detector test, but he vowed he would have drafted point guard Frank Ntilikina with the eighth pick if he had final say. Sources told The Post that Phil Jackson and his top adviser, Clarence Gaines Jr., were hot and heavy for the 18-year-old Frenchman. Ntilikina…

  • [NYPost] Very different Knicks braintrust says only one way Carmelo leaves
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 10:47:25 AM)

    Well, that was very diplomatic. In even-keeled tones so opposite those of the departed Phil Jackson, new Knicks president Steve Mills said he won’t buy out Carmelo Anthony, allowed the possibility of him being on the Knicks next season but said he hopes they can reach “some resolution that works well for both of us.’’…

  • [NYDN] Knicks preparing to rebuild again, but not much has changed
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 9:22:38 PM)

    Strap in Knicks fans, and get ready for another long rebuild.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo not part of Knicks’ long-term plans, buyout not an option
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 9:15:10 PM)

    The Knicks may or may not have Carmelo Anthony on their roster next season, but a buyout isn’t an option.

  • [NYDN] Steve Mills gets to prove he’s a winner, not just a survivor
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 9:13:38 PM)

    Steve Mills is a holdover from the Phil Jackson regime, but he’ll have to prove he won’t be more of the same for the Knicks.

  • [NYDN] Steve Mills said Knicks had to be ‘aggressive’ to sign Hardaway
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 3:11:18 PM)

    Well, $71 million is certainly aggressive.

  • [NYDN] Knicks introduce GM Scott Perry and ‘defense first’ mentality
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 10:54:43 AM)

    Forget about the triangle offense — these Knicks will be all about scrappy team defense and developing young players.

  • [NYTimes] Sports of The Times: At Knicks’ Facility, Hopeful Talk and Lessons Learned (or Maybe Not)
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:30:30 AM)

    At a news conference announcing the appointment of another team president and another general manager, things seemed different.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks’ Leaders Talk Defense and Tiptoe Around Puzzle of Carmelo Anthony
    (Tuesday, July 18, 2017 1:06:45 AM)

    The team’s new executives emphasized that their efforts would focus on young players, which seemed to leave Anthony’s spot on the team in question.

  • [NYTimes] The Houston Rockets Are for Sale, and They Will Not Be Cheap
    (Monday, July 17, 2017 11:59:41 PM)

    After 24 years, Leslie Alexander is ready to sell his team that Forbes is estimating to be worth $1.65 billion — and Forbes has underestimated before.

  • 116 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.18)”

    I didn’t get to watch the presser yesterday but it seems like it was an exceedingly normal press conference, which is such a step up.

    The Melo part seemed right on point — 1) we’re getting younger and rebuilding; 2) Melo can be part of it or he can not be a part of it; 3) we’ll look into trade but we’re not going to dump him in a deal that hurts the rebuilding / flexibility; 4) the worst thing that could happen is NOT that we’re forced to keep a 10-time All-star and future HoFer on the roster — the worst thing is making a bad deal.

    Was Mills around during the Ewing trade fiasco? Maybe he remembers how badly that turned out for us.

    Ya’ll can rest easy:

    Sources told The Post that Phil Jackson and his top adviser, Clarence Gaines Jr., were hot and heavy for the 18-year-old Frenchman.

    Frank Ntilikina is a baller and he’s the kind of defensive player that will disrupt game plans. He is also a willing passer, a good spot up shooter, and a decent ball handler. When he starts to work on his explosiveness, his handle, and his offensive game otherwise you are looking at a special talent.

    With all the talk on this blog about the seemingly senseless player options that have been doled out by the knicks (incl Timmy and baker), would be really interesting if anyone had data on the percentage of contracts signed by the knicks that included player options over, say, the last 3 years or so as compared with the other nba teams. I suspect – but don’t know for sure – that we would be an outlier, and if so one can only hope that someone in the knicks org reads this blog and will take that to heart when negotiating future deals

    My eye test is saying there wasn’t much intelligence at the Knicks table in the presser. I’m firmly in team pessimistic about this FO.

    I’m all for Team Realism/Pessimism but maybe we should let them actually do something first before we jump off a cliff.

    My eye test is saying there wasn’t much intelligence at the Knicks table in the presser. I’m firmly in team pessimistic about this FO.

    I must agree. If I had to guess, we’ll still be fooled by POINTZZZZ in the future and our string of chuckers will continue.

    @2

    That’s great and all but he was scouting players based on how they would work within the triangle. It is what it is though. I’m okay with Frank but I just don’t know what kind of offensive player he can become due to the role he played and the small sample size of shooting and lack of advance dribbling skills. Will he ever become a true pg?

    i think nate mcmillan is a reasonable comparable for frank…. it’s tough envisioning frank to be a high usage guy so i think he’s a bit limited in that regard… and it’s going to be tough for frank to have as much a defensive impact as nate had… but more or less i think mcmillan is about as good as you can expect out of him…

    i think mcmillan is about as good as you can expect out of him

    I think most of us would be pretty happy with that… other than that McMillan spent most of his career playing the 2 which means we’re looking for a point guard again.

    If the Knicks are looking for a scrappy guard, maybe they can sign the Chinese MVP from last year:

    Jimo Fulei averaged 37.3 points on 48.1 percent shooting from the floor with 7.9 rebounds, 4.3 assists and 1.7 steals in 37 games while carrying the Shanghai Sharks to a 30-8 regular-season record (he missed one game with an ankle injury).

    Previous winners of the award – which has been handed out since 2012-13 – are Michael Beasley, Lester Hudson and Stephon Marbury.

    Fulei and the Sharks are back in action on Wednesday for game three of their best-of-5 first round series with the Shenzhen Leopards. The series is tied at one game apiece with the Leopards winning game one in a 40-point blowout as the Sharks were without Fulei … for the birth of his daughter. Fulei returned for game two and turned in a stellar overtime performance as he finished with eight of his game-high 39 points in a 107-99 win to square up the series.

    He’s 28 years old, but I think the Knicks could get him for cheap.

    i think nate mcmillan is a reasonable comparable for frank…. it’s tough envisioning frank to be a high usage guy so i think he’s a bit limited in that regard… and it’s going to be tough for frank to have as much a defensive impact as nate had… but more or less i think mcmillan is about as good as you can expect out of him…

    you say this like it’s a bad thing but a Nate McMillan who can shoot is a hall of famer even without the usage. Nate was a defensive stopper with #s very similar to prime Rondo but they sagged off him even more than his 34pct 3pt and 65 ft% would imply. Give him a plus shot and he’s a beast.

    OK, trying my hand at this:

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y8gwyu44

    It’s not ideal for anyone, but probably fair. Cleveland get’s Melo AND Tyson for a title run, Phoenix dumps Knight, gets younger at C with Thompson and gets a defender in Shump, and we get cap relief with Frye, a serviceable SF in Dudley, a promising young guard in Felder, and Cleveland’s 1st round pick. The Knight contract sucks, but he could become useful again, and it’s not like we’re winning anything anytime soon.

    @lavor – yes i’ve seen plenty of him..

    @ptmilo – i didn’t mean it as a bad thing… i know how good nate mcmillan was… but the bar is incredibly high for his defensive impact…. probably the best backcourt defensive player we’ve seen…. and ppl talk like frank is going to be something like that… i’m pretty sure he falls short on the defensive end but he’s also a better catch and shoot guy than nate was… so i think roughly speaking it’s an apt comparison….

    What if Frank turns out not to be a natural 1 guard like other “combo” guards Shump or Delly? That wouldn’t be the end of the world except we have Lee, Timmy, and Dotson at the 2. How will he get minutes especially when Melo and Lance are at the 3 and it’s not even clear any of the SGs could play the 3 effectively. Do we really want to restrict Dotson’s minutes who may be better than all of them? We’d be hoping that Frank could be a Beverley or Hill type and shot creation would be done from other positions.

    Dennis Johnson would be the ceiling I hope Ntilikina reaches. A better shooting McMillan would be a fine outcome also.

    Conspiracy in verse:

    There once was this trade
    Woj said had been made
    But isn’t it queer
    That Melo’s still here
    And no one knows they’ve been played

    I’m all for Team Realism/Pessimism but maybe we should let them actually do something first before we jump off a cliff.

    Wasn’t giving Hardaway 71 million and not giving Baker the qualifying offer in the first 2 weeks enough? 🙂

    I liked what I read from the press conference. I know people hate the Hardaway and Baker deals but reading what Mills said about Hardaway…it all made sense to me. I have no problem with that deal because he is so young and has shown improvement every year. He is clearly part of the young core going forward. Baker is a little bit more WTF but you know, maybe instead of underperforming and we’re stuck with him or over performing and he bounces, maybe he performs exactly like a 5 million dollar player and instead of picking up that player option we just give him a new contract for like 5 or 6 million a year again for several more years? Isn’t that also an option?

    I get that people don’t like the player options. I really do. I get the logic. If they suck they pick them up, if they’re good they don’t and they could bounce. But here’s the thing. Phil really hurt our franchise. And I was a BIG Phil defender. I mean he had no draft picks and I believe a mix of drafting and signing veterans is an ok strategy. Objectively he’s left us in a much better state than when he took over.

    However, his antics. Talking trash about players, his own and ex Knicks. The endless twitter mind games, cryptic messages, not being involved but then being weirdly involved…it all got to be too much. And the way he handled this Melo situation was a horrible look for our franchise. I know that a lot of people think we have no business signing any free agents, but Phil really made our franchise look even more like a circus than it did before and that’s a hard feat to accomplish. Giving out these player options could be a way to kind of build up good graces again with agents and players.

    So while I don’t like them, I’m not gonna go ON AND ON about how horrible and stupid they are. There’s politics at play with agents and stuff that we never get to see. I like our core. I’m anxious to see what happens with Melo. But overall I’m excited about the youth and future of this…

    So while I don’t like them, I’m not gonna go ON AND ON about how horrible and stupid they are. There’s politics at play with agents and stuff that we never get to see. I like our core. I’m anxious to see what happens with Melo. But overall I’m excited about the youth and future of this…

    Same here!

    That’s great and all but he was scouting players based on how they would work within the triangle. It is what it is though. I’m okay with Frank but I just don’t know what kind of offensive player he can become due to the role he played and the small sample size of shooting and lack of advance dribbling skills. Will he ever become a true pg?

    I couldn’t agree less.

    From what I see they drafted what they considered the BPA at the time and not who would fit the triangle. KP a 7’3″ reed thin jump shooter is hardly a triangle player but he was the PBA. WHG was clearly the BPA in the 30’s and maybe in the top 5. I don’t see Hardaway as a particular triangle draftee, nor Thanis, Early , Louis L or anyone not named Grant.

    They love Frank because they look at him as a lock down defender who has shot the ball well from deep, is fundamentally sound coach-able and has crazy measurables. A very good willing all around basketball player can play any system and they think Frank is a steal as a player, not a triangular player.

    My opinion and I hope they are right.

    @14 ess-dog –> I am trying to see the rationale for the Knicks in this. Frye sucks but I get the value of an expiring contract. Dudley is good but 30 years old, and just good enough to sink the tank. Kay Felder doesn’t make anyone happy but Z-man. And Brandon Knight is a severely negative asset that we should get picks to take on even aside from sending Carmelo out. I just don’t see the point at all.

    Re: Ntilikina – none of us has really seen him play in what will eventually be his role in NBA because he hasn’t done that. He’s been stuck being an off-guard off the bench. But from DX:

    6’5 French guard and potential lottery pick Frank Ntilikina turned in an impressive six-game performance at the 2016 FIBA U18 European Championships in December, leading France to a title despite battling an illness early on in the tournament. After scoring only 7.3 points per game through the first three contests, Ntilikina finished the tournament averaging 22.7 points, 6.7 assists, 3.2 steals, 1.7 blocks and 5.0 turnovers per 40 minutes on 42.4% from two-point range and 58.6% from three-point range. – Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/frank-ntilikina-u18-european-championship-scouting-analysis-5821/ ©DraftExpress

    That’s really the only time he’s played as a lead guard. I don’t see why he can’t grow into that in the NBA.

    Why don’t we let him actually play a single minute in the NBA before we start saying what he can and can’t do in the future? In 2015 we all thought KP would be a 5 year project, and then in game one in summer league we knew he was legit.

    Take a flyer on Ty Lawson? He’d be cheap and we could ditch him if he doesn’t work out…

    i think if anything is clear is that we are very crowded at the 2 and that we are most likely going to be playing alot of those guys at the 3…

    that’s really what the frustrating part of the th2 deal… it undermined the lee signing last year… it undermined the dotson pick… it restricts your options with both baker and ntilikina…. and it’s unclear if it actually resolves the issues at the 2…. it’s a lot of mediocre options at one position that required large commitments….

    Yeah, Phoenix would need to throw in a pick if Knight is in that deal OR use Bledsoe instead. Either way, it’s a lot less guaranteed money than Anderson, and if we get the Phoenix and Cleveland picks, it would be a better haul. It has to be worth it for Phoenix though because the Thompson contract is just as long. Maybe they get the Cleveland pick?

    Frank has the potential to be a versatile scorer/defender. He can project to play either backcourt position and defend positions 1-3. That’s very valuable. To say he’s chosen just to be a Triangle player is wrong, he’s projected to play in any system.

    Frank has the potential to be a versatile scorer/defender. He can project to play either backcourt position and defend positions 1-3. That’s very valuable. To say he’s chosen just to be a Triangle player is wrong, he’s projected to play in any system.

    One of the things that I liked best about Frank back when Phil was still here is that I thought he’d be able to transition well to the new system they would play when Phil’s deal ended. So yeah, agreed, he’s way more than just a Triangle guy.

    even if a player was projected to be ideal for a triangle setup, it’s not like the skills that would help him in that sense won’t translate to other offensive schemes.

    one of the better parts of drafting a guy that young is that it’s possible to develop him in many different ways. I don’t really trust the Knicks in the development side but I’m optimistic high IQ, good defense was finally a priority somewhere with the Knicks.

    I like that that deal somehow makes the Knicks 11 wins worse. 🙂

    That’s obviously because they bring back Jerian Grant, and he falls over a lot, nullifying all the positives that LeBron and CP3 bring to the team.

    People underestimate what it means to be a player that fits the triangle. Fitting the triangle means you have to be unselfish, smart, and talented in more things than a pick and roll.

    Fitting the triangle means you have to be unselfish, smart, and talented in more things than a pick and roll.

    Can read defenses on the spot, can help space a floor, and don’t need the ball in your hands all the time. Things which a lot of “1 and dones” don’t understand when they get out of college.

    Mills defense of the THJ signing seemed to be that the salary is what some other players are getting. It said nothing about the basic complaints about the deal which are that he paid more than he had to. I think even THJ would have been happy with less. If he could have madd everyone happy and still spent less than what he thought was comparable to others, he should have done that. But I don’t think he thinks that way. He probably gave Baker a player option for similar reasons. It’s not what I want out a GMs negotiating.

    However, his antics. Talking trash about players, his own and ex Knicks. The endless twitter mind games, cryptic messages, not being involved but then being weirdly involved…it all got to be too much.

    Bookmark this post.

    As soon as the media gets tired of Mills they are going to turn everything he says or does into a way bigger deal than it actually is with spin, bias, and outright lies until most of us are saying we can’t take it anymore (except me because I see right through them, ignore them, and try to remain objective and balanced despite them).

    Mills is getting a honeymoon right now.

    He was around when we were getting sued for sexual harassment and was accused of threatening the woman over it. He was around for just about every incompetent deal the Knicks made in close to a 20 year period. His first 2 signings since taking over were overpays and undid some of the good Jackson actually did while here. Just yesterday he said the Knick will develop the kids with or without Melo. If Jackson said those exact same words (and I think he actually did come pretty close) it would have been spun into a big story about how the Knicks don’t value Melo anymore, Jackson trashed Melo again and reduced is trade value etc..

    The media will turn in a couple of years. But they should have done their job right from the start by pointing out why he was a terrible choice to begin with.

    Good players have more skills…. when you emphasize the triangle its meant to mitigate the creativity issues some role players have…

    When you have a whole team like that and when your primary ballhandlers have issues creating shots for themselves and others… thats an issue in any offense…. thats why the triangle has failed without jordan/pippen and kobe/shaq…

    Thats why building for the triangle is extremely hard… you need players who can create at other positions in order to have a suboptimal ballhandler at the 1….

    Frank doesnt necessarily need to be a pg… but he cant just be a spotup shooter… thats usually a player thats very limited offensively in the mcmillan/brian shaw mold…. and it burdens the rest of the offense…

    Th2 isnt gonna pickup that slack.. and probably not kp or wily…. so that leaves the pg or sf slots to do it…

    If frank is gonna be part of a winning team… he has to fulfill that responsibility…

    If Ntilikina was a “triangle only” player or a “best for the triangle” player, he wouldn’t have been projected as a top 8 pick by just about every forecast on the planet. He was selected right where he was projected to have been selected.

    the kid has never played a minute in the triangle, he has probably never practiced once in the triangle, he might not even know what the triangle means.

    you guys are stretching really hard to keep this narrative going.

    @ 38 – I mean, yeah, that could happen for sure. The NY media SUCKS when it comes to the Knicks.

    But Phil openly trashed former players and Melo and KP. It got pretty bad there by the end. You have to admit!

    @ 37 – paying Hardaway Jr. less meant risking Atlanta would match. Reports said Atlanta was looking at 45 million total, which was probably their lowball offer. If Mills offers him 50 they 99 percent match that. If he offers 60, it probably goes down some. What Mills offered was a lot bc he wanted to make sure Atlanta did not match.

    People bashing Frank need to get over it. Its not like we picked some player who was projected to go way lower. If we picked DSJ Dallas was going to pick Frank. We know this. We picked the player right where he was projected to go.

    I can’t say that I’ve watched hours upon hours of Ntilikina play but what I saw was a lock-down defender who can play some. He ran the pick and roll and pick and pop well. He has long distance range. He passes the ball. His handle needs work. To say much more is foolish. He needs time to develop as an NBA point guard.
    @38

    Mills is getting a honeymoon right now. He was around when we were getting sued for sexual harassment and was accused of threatening the woman over it. He was around for just about every incompetent deal the Knicks made in close to a 20 year period.

    As for Mills, I’m not willing to give him a pass. He’s been here through several horrific regimes. He’s part of the problem. What I will do is give him some time to prove that I’m wrong, that he had no power. No more excuses for him.
    BTW, what’s the deal with Alan Houston now? Is he still part of the long-range plan?

    I wouldn’t call it “bashing” per say but there is a sentiment, here and around the fandom, that we drafted the wrong guy in Frank. I think its really unfair to make that assessment without even giving him a chance.

    @ 46 – bashing might be too tough a word. I just read the thread yesterday and see all these people pining over DSJ and saying Frank is going to be another Shumpert, etc. That’s just dumb this early in the game to pick one a winner over the other and Frank was picked right where he was projected to go. Its just reading really pointless arguments.

    There are quite a few Strasbourg full games on YouTube. The kid absolutely can use dribble-coaching, but he is quite good spot-up or off the dribble from 3, makes simple and intelligent passes all the time, and is consistently defending well (both his man, and help). If he can learn to drive better, he can be an exceptional all-around player, position be damned. Who cares if he is a 1 or 2 anyway? We’re shit.

    Dennis Smith Jr. is like many other players who do well in college and were never great defenders- like Foye, etc. I’d rather take a chance on Frank.

    Again, if Frank turns out worse than Smith, that’s not a loss. He may have been the better prospect at the time. It’s like losing a hand of Blackjack despite paying right. It happens.

    I would’ve been very happy with drafting Dennis Smith, but I’m happy with Ntilikina. The worry with Smith was never that he didn’t have skills — it was that he might end up being an empty calorie stat stuffer – a guy who scores a lot and puts up great numbers for losing teams. I don’t know how anything he did in summer league changes that perception. For Smith to change that perception, he needs to do things like play defense, play smart, and do the little things that win games — ie. none of the things that show up in AAU-like summer league games.

    Ntilikina was a valuable rotation player on a pretty good European team, which (Luca Doncic aside) is a impressive thing in and of itself. If you look at the list of preps-to-pros NBA players, very few (maybe Garnett, Lebron, Amare) were even remotely useful as 18 year olds in a man’s league.

    Re: Steve Perry – I’m having trouble figuring out exactly what his supposed strengths are other than having good relationships around the league. Does that just make him another Steve Mills? If so, he badly needs to hire a cap guru / negotiator type. Any successful front office needs someone with good organizational skills, people skills to deal with agents/players/other teams, scouting expertise, and cap management. Perry could fill #1 and #2, and I think Gaines and co. are good with the player personnel type stuff, but who is the cap guy on the Knicks?

    New York Knicks:
    Mike Smith (Director of Analytics and Pro Scout),
    Richard Dry (Director of Sports Technology)

    i’m gonna guess that these two individuals – while most likely terrifically compensated – have the two most unrewarding jobs in the league…

    Re: Steve Perry – I’m having trouble figuring out exactly what his supposed strengths are other than having good relationships around the league.

    Shoulda been gone? Knowing how he made them feel?

    @50 don’t forget Moses.
    Wait, why isn’t Moses on that list? ABA?

    Oh man I recall the hype over Korleon Young.

    I think it’s fairly clear the Knicks’ cap guy is some dude with a calculator.
    Ie. Mills: Hardaway can ball and is a free agent and I want him.
    Cap guy. 110 mil – 92 mil = 18 mil.
    Mills: Thanks cap guy!

    http://nypost.com/2017/07/18/the-black-inspiration-and-pioneer-behind-knicks-new-gm/

    Because Gaines, the former Bulls scout, is so closely tied to departed Phil Jackson and sought players only adaptable to the triangle, his situation seems most uncertain. An option for Perry could be to bring in George David to run the college-scouting department. David worked for more than 10 years with Perry in Detroit and is now a player recruiter for the Wasserman Agency.

    Given Berman and Mills possible “friendship” I find it interesting he singled out Gaines.

    Hard to get excited or down about Frank, since the front office will almost certainly trade him after the 2019 season.

    I think it’s fairly clear the Knicks’ cap guy is some dude with a calculator.

    You think it’s a calculator? I’m pretty sure it’s a golden abacus that’s missing a few beads. It’s REALLY expensive, so it must be good.

    October can’t come soon enough.

    there’s an old johnny cash song called “25 minutes to go” which seems to sum up my anticipation for the upcoming season fairly well…

    Well they’re building a gallows outside my cell I’ve got 25 minutes to go
    And the whole town’s waitin’ just to hear me yell I’ve got 24 minutes to go
    Well they gave me some beans for my last meal I’ve got 23 minutes to go
    But nobody asked me how I feel I’ve got 22 minutes to go
    Well I sent for the governor and the whole dern bunch with 21 minutes to go
    And I sent for the mayor but he’s out to lunch I’ve got 20 more minutes to go
    Then the sheriff said boy I gonna watch you die got 19 minutes to go
    So I laughed in his face and I spit in his eye got 18 minutes to go
    Now hear comes the preacher for to save my soul with 13 minutes to go
    And he’s talking bout’ burnin’ but I’m so cold I’ve 12 more minutes to go
    Now they’re testin’ the trap and it chills my spine 11 more minutes to go
    And the trap and the rope aw they work just fine got 10 more minutes to go
    Well I’m waitin’ on the pardon that’ll set me free with 9 more minutes to go
    But this is for real so forget about me got 8 more minutes to go
    With my feet on the trap and my head on the noose got 5 more minutes to go
    Won’t somebody come and cut me loose with 4 more minutes to go
    I can see the mountains I can see the skies with 3 more minutes to go
    And it’s to dern pretty for a man that don’t want to die 2 more minutes to go
    I can see the buzzards I can hear the crows 1 more minute to go
    And now I’m swingin’ and here I go-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!

    Because Gaines, the former Bulls scout, is so closely tied to departed Phil Jackson and sought players only adaptable to the triangle, his situation seems most uncertain.

    This is the biggest crock of shit I’ve ever read about the Knicks and that’s saying something. Is Berman really telling us KP, Willy, Grant, Ron and Frank are only adaptable to one offensive system? I mean, who the fuck fact checks this moron’s writing. Its just not true.

    Carmelo Anthony is not interested in staying with the Knicks, the Rockets are prepared for trade negotiations to run through training camp.— NBA SKITS (@NBA_Skits) July 18, 2017

    If the Knicks get rid of Gaines, they’ll be 3 for 3 “bad” moves. F the triangle. That whole narrative is such BS. Gaines and the other scouts have done a terrific job of recognizing talent. Just tell him to keep finding good players. If they are smart and versatile enough to play in the triangle, they can play in anything. The only significant position is PG. Not all triangle PGs are going to run a team like a more modern PG. But we are already betting that Frank can.

    yeah, that’s really bullshit.

    No team plays the triangle, no college team, no European team, no NBA team, these players have been introduced to the triangle in the Knicks fiasco. They played at most 10% of their careers in some sort of triangle scheme, and now suddenly every Knicks player is only suited to the triangle, despite pretty much all of them not adapting well to it, including KP, a guy Gaines scouted?

    They played at most 10% of their careers in some sort of triangle scheme, and now suddenly every Knicks player is only suited to the triangle, despite pretty much all of them not adapting well to it, including KP, a guy Gaines scouted?

    Funny part is that Gaines chose BPA in many of his draft picks according to most consensus takes.

    @56 that’s why I’ve long been over losing out on Steph by 1 pick. He would have almost certainly gone to the Nuggets in the melo trade.

    Nah, Steph would have gone to the Rockets in the Tracy McGrady “clear out cap space for LeBron” gambit

    Given Berman and Mills possible “friendship” I find it interesting he singled out Gaines.

    Yeah, that’s very much not a good sign. That’s a big ol’ “Set up the move before the move happens” leak right there.

    Yeah, I’d hate to see Gaines go next in the housecleaning. He’s been one of the few bright spots.

    The Knicks’ scouting department has remained intact for as long as I can remember. I don’t think Gaines goes anywhere.

    It is worrisome that it was reported that Phil’s 2nd in command was Gaines Jr instead of Mills. I can see where Mills would want to be petty and remove him.

    Good piece by Beck. He’s pretty much right. Mills promises change when he has been part of the institution that needs changing for most of the last 20 years.

    I just want to know why Rambis is still in ny.

    Also, a good scout should be able to scout for different systems. So even though I think Gaines scouted players in regards to how they fit the triangle It doesn’t mean he can’t adjust.

    The idea itself is stupid. If Gaines was good at scouting players for the triangle when no team ever plays the triangle, that means he obviously understands how to evaluate players strenghts (and then would presumably relay them to management focusing on those who would be more adept at some sort of triangular voodoo).

    it really makes no sense and it does seem like a setup just to replace him.

    FWIW, Beck isn’t buying this:

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2722294-a-band-aid-on-a-major-wound-knicks-shakeup-promises-more-dysfunction-ahead

    at this point – who is buying it…

    we could do our season win prediction today – and, my opinion would be the same as it’s been since last February…shoot – had i been actually kicking in on knickerblogger and not just skulking like i did for many years – no way would i have gone with 47 wins for last season…

    for better or worse – i’m in the “know” now…

    aim low sheriff – cuz they’re all riding shetlands…

    we truly are rooting for the gang that can’t shoot straight…

    Good piece by Beck. He’s pretty much right. Mills promises change when he has been part of the institution that needs changing for most of the last 20 years.

    Yeah, the Mills shit about getting younger sounded more like marketing than a real strategy.

    Interesting listen on the Vertical podcast with Mannix and Beck today —
    Basically it seems very much like Perry replicates a lot of what Mills is supposed to be good at- basically schmoozing with players and agents. So what’s the point?

    The Knicks need someone like Rob Pelinka or Leon Rose or someone like that to be GM, or at least have an assistant GM title. They need someone who understands the CBA up and down and left and right, and are comfortable in negotiations. I really don’t get the sense that either Mills or Perry have those things as strengths. (Definitely not Mills)

    Perry seems like a good guy. I hope he is smart enough to know where he needs help, and be empowered enough to go out and get that help.

    The Knicks need what we’ve needed for a long time-someone who understands how good the team is, what it’s strengths and weaknesses are, and how to evaluate NBA players. It doesn’t seem like it’s a high bar, but the only year in 20 years this team was any good they obviously didn’t even know why

    Bill Simmons put up a different trade scenario for a Melo trade on Twitter:

    https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/887336379763441664?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Fnba

    If I am being honest, I don’t know a lot about the players coming back outside of Valancinius, but they are all expiring. Val doesn’t fit for us though, so I wouldn’t be keen to take on his 3 years unless we could flip him for some more expiring deals/draft picks. Not sure that gets done, but it’s something different compared to what I have seen floating around. Plus I could be wrong, but I don’t think Orlando and Toronto can trade with each other for a couple more months after the Orlando GM poaching.

    I’m probably the only person on the board who thinks this, but I pretty much approve of what the Knicks are doing. They still suck at handing out contracts, but this looks like a Knicks team that values youth, team basketball, and draft picks ever since Phil Jackson got here. The Knicks sans PJax added TH2, who regardless of his contract size is a rising young talent signed through his prime years, kept Ron Baker on a horrible-but-not-back-breaking contract, and decided that trading Melo for Ryan Anderson was a dumb idea because we wouldn’t be getting back youth, draft picks, or cap relief.

    I’m looking forward to seeing what the Knicks do with Melo and I’m looking forward to watching the young Knicks build together through the decade. I’m rooting for Mills and Perry, and so far they’ve given me no reason to riot and be mad. With the Melo trade, they’ve drawn their line in the sand and told Melo/Morey that the onus is on them to find a package we deem acceptable. That’s the kind of stuff competent GMs do.

    Not a good trade proposal by Simmons there unless the Knicks are interested in running some Three Centers sets…

    I like it if it includes any picks to the Knicks.

    Valanciunas is really good and should be easily tradeable for something good, his contract is like 3 years for 16 per for the rest of the duration and he’s still 24.

    Not a good trade proposal by Simmons there unless the Knicks are interested in running some Three Centers sets…

    Yeah it’s not great. I would be hesitant to take back any bigs in any deal.

    Valanciunas is really good and should be easily tradeable for something good, his contract is like 3 years for 16 per for the rest of the duration and he’s still 24.

    That’s the real kicker. If you had something already lined up for Jonas, you could definitely net a few assets. Not sure Toronto is ready to give up on him yet though.

    yeah, it makes little sense for Toronto to get rid of him while absorbing Biyombo, a more limited player with a similar contract unless they also get some picks, so…

    Just watched the press conference in its entirety. I wish someone had asked Mills about the Baker contract instead of the Hardaway signing since his answer to the Timmy question was predictable. I don’t know how you even remotely justify a player option for Baker. It would have been interesting to have heard his response.

    One thing that surprised me is Mills said he would have chosen Ntilikina in the draft when asked. I would have expected him to have said something to the effect he didn’t want to talk about past decisions of Phil and focus on the future.

    The Rockets need to be gauging if MKG is available in any trade talks. If the Knicks are serious about building a young defensive minded team, you can’t do any better than 22 year old KP in the front court, 24 year old MKG on the wing, and 19 year old Ntilikina in the backcourt. There’s a lot of room for Ryan Anderson on a roster with Kemba Walker, Nic Batum, and Dwight Howard, too.

    I’m on the MKG hype train, he can’t shoot but he’s an incredible defender and a really good rebounder for his position.

    Its not that farfetched to think that he’ll make a mini-Shawn Marion leap if he figures how to contribute better on offense

    MKG is horrible. Like Andre Roberson horrible. He’d have to be able to guard 2 guys at once and cook the team meals and be the head trainer to be on any team I root for.

    Valanciunas would give us 4 (or I guess 4.5) good centers, which seems a bit excessive.

    I would hope for a Cleveland/Charlotte/NewYork three team deal but I can’t see a trade where Cleveland gives Kevin Love to a team that already has Dwight Howard, Nic Batum, and Kemba Walker. I don’t see why we wouldn’t be able to steal MKG, though. He doesn’t score points and the Hornets will need to put better shooters around their guys. I doubt it happens, but I’m sure there’s a scenario where we could land Eric Bledsoe and MKG in a 4 team deal with Charlotte, Phoenix, and one of Houston/Cleveland. Both Ryan Anderson and Kevin Love make a ton of sense in Charlotte.

    MKG could be very valuable, especially on a team with two other front court players who can stretch the floor. He produces respectable WS/48 numbers for someone who can’t shoot worth a shit and if he does figure out a way to consistently drain an occasional outside shot he’d be a starting wing on a winning team. I am not sure he fits on our squad though unless we play KP at the 5.

    MKG’s ts% isnt even that bad, it’s like .520 for his career. He had a nice ft% spike last year, if he can become a 75% free throw shooter consistently he’s not a total net negative on offense.

    He can’t shoot threes at all, which sucks, but he’s 23 and makes 13 million per in a 3 year deal, fair value I would say.

    mkg is tony allen… that has value… i’m not sure how much on this team….

    big men aren’t really liquid assets….. they are a commodity at this point and especially someone like jonas who does a lot of nice things but doesn’t really differentiate himself from others… is there a big difference between him and dwight howard aside from age? drummond? they all have similar strengths and weaknesses…

    we have a very decent big man in koq… who’s cheap.. still relatively young.. and can probably start on a handful of teams…. but we can’t get a first for him…. nerlens noel got traded for a 2nd rd pick… dwight howard got dumped for peanuts in a .184 ws48 season… it’s a bad market for big men…

    MKG isn’t really much of a big man though. He’s more of a swingman who can guard 3s and 2s – maybe some 1s. His defensive versatility is a major plus and you could fit him with a number of lineup combinations.

    There’s YouTube footage of MKG shutting Russell Westbrook all the way down. There’s also footage of him completely neutralizing Carmelo Anthony that is extremely painful to watch. I’m convinced he’s the most underrated defender on the planet. He is the clamps.

    i was referring to jonas…

    mkg i happen to like… but this team already has about 6 centers and 6 shooting guards…. and not enough ppl who can create shots already…

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycr7vvro

    Would you guys do this trade if the Suns asked for a lottery protected 1st round pick from us? Personally I’m jumping at that deal and not looking back. Bledsoe, Hardaway Jr, MKG, KP, and Willy Hernangomez as a starting five and then you’re bringing Ntilikina, Baker, Lee, LT, and O’Quinn off the bench? That’s a team that could win 45+ games if KP and Willy Hernangomez don’t improve.

    We really need LeBron to get fed up and demand the Cavs get in on the Melo action. Love could then go to Charlotte and we could get MKG with a Charlotte 1st round pick heading to Phoenix in return for Bledsoe.

    Maybe I’m wrong on kidd-gilchrist?. I do love his d but he can’t shoot at all. I can’t see that being a positive in today’s game from a wing.

    95 – I’m not sure if it’s the exact one you’re referring to, but good lord was that awful to watch from melo…that looked like a 14 year old’s impersonation of melo being reenacted by Carmelo Anthony.

    I could only make it a minute or so before I had to divert the eyes.

    Reub I would do that trade, but charlotte wouldn’t; it makes no sense for them to take on Anderson when they have Kaminsky and aren’t going anywhere

    If Jackson said those exact same words (and I think he actually did come pretty close) it would have been spun into a big story about how the Knicks don’t value Melo anymore, Jackson trashed Melo again and reduced is trade value etc..

    The media will turn in a couple of years.

    I mean, the media wouldn’t have turned on Jackson if his moves had produced anything close to a decent season, win wise.

    It’s not that hard to keep the NY media satiated: do your job well and give New Yorkers something to cheer for.

    The Cavs shouldn’t trade for Melo they should trade Lebron

    edit: I realize Lebron has a NTC, but you should be able to convince him to waive that since he’s probably leaving anyhow

    Charlotte does think they are going somewhere tho, so that’s typically the sort of team which is a good trade partner… they know they won’t contend but they expect to be in the playoffs and by all accounts have shitty management.

    the thing with MKG is that I would be personally against any wing who can’t shoot, but he’s an exception because he does look like a top 5 defender at his position. I think shot creation is an overrated skill and I can see a team, specially one with a stretch 4 like KP, working really well despite him being a net negative on offense.

    He would be able to switch against 2s and 4s and would greatly help THJ and KP on defense.

    Did you guys notice that Mills said that the Knicks contacted Hardaway right after midnight on July 1st while Hardaway said they didn’t contact him until a few days into free agency? That’s weird, right?

    Do any of the optimists/delusionalists realize that the team, as currently constructed, has no one who can handle, pass or run a team? What is the plan here?

    I don’t think Im one of the optimists, but the plan should be to develop the kids and suck in the process (unless they get a lot better).

    As for what the Knicks plan are, they’re probably trading two firsts for Bledsoe or some other annoying stupid move.

    This is why I wanted Rondo. How are KP and Willly going to develop if there’s no one to get them the ball in the proper spots?
    Ron gritty Baker??

    Yeah. The plan better be to develop the kids and target that overall #1 pick. They should trade veterans for 1st round picks. Veterans that stay have to be good mentor types. What’s Prigioni doing right now?

    Do any of the optimists/delusionalists realize that the team, as currently constructed, has no one who can handle, pass or run a team? What is the plan here?

    The plan is to promote Ron to Tank Commander and then have Randle installed as Assistant Tank Commander.

    I don’t think a PG like Rondo should be necessary for a talented guy like KP to develop.

    His development will be tied to him understanding how to leverage his size + his skill into taking good shots.

    I don’t think he needs to have a PG running the pick and roll all the time with him to do so. I do agree that some work needs to be done to put him into position to make better decisions, but that’s more on Hornacek creating a system with good ball movement and strong set plays than it is based on having a PG who can create shots for him.

    I also hope Ntilikina will get a chance run the offense and that he will be capable of running at least basic pick and roll actions.

    There once was a baller named Ron
    Whose shot was much more off than on
    His persona was scrappy
    His play mostly crappy
    But his haircut was top echelon

    We don’t know what this roster will look like until the Melo trade happens.

    MKG is someone who just plays there without eye popping box score. He is a perfect fit for KP and thj. Though he’s a type of player who is anti knicks

    I would say that MKG is the type of player who is overvalued by his own FO. Besides, they do not have any other guy at SF.

    I believe Charlotte is a good trading partner in the sense that is a team that would see value in Ryan Anderson and can give some players that the Knicks might see better value, such as Marvin Williams and Jeremy Lamb.

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