Knicks Morning News (2017.07.20)

  • [NY Newsday] Trail Blazers players reportedly make it known that they want Carmelo Anthony
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 8:04:00 PM)

    The Blazers’ talented backcourt reportedly made a pitch to Carmelo Anthony to try and convince him to come to Portland.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks Insider podcast: Carmelo Anthony still with team but for how long?
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:58:00 AM)

    New Knicks general manager Steve Perry and team president Steve Mills have emphasized building around the team’s young core, but Carmelo Anthony doesn’t fit that mold.

  • [ESPN] Lillard, McCollum trying to sell Melo on Portland
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 5:51:43 PM)

    Lillard, McCollum trying to sell Melo on Portland

  • [ESPN] Kyrie and Melo show preview of chemistry in pickup basketball game
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:45:11 AM)

    Kyrie and Melo show preview of chemistry in pickup basketball game

  • [SNY Knicks] New York Sports today: Anthony still seeking a trade to the Rockets
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 9:54:46 AM)

  • [NYPost] Blazers stars emerge with alleged Carmelo insight: ‘He’s interested’
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 3:51:20 PM)

    Time is a four-letter word. But so are talk and hope. While Carmelo Anthony apparently doesn’t want to talk about extending his stay with the Knicks, who feel time is on their side, another team, Portland, emerged with hope of landing the 10-time All-Star. Anthony apparently would prefer to be a Houston Rocket last week,…

  • [NYTimes] Spurs Guard Manu Ginobili, Turning 40, Plans to Play 16th Season
    (Thursday, July 20, 2017 12:10:10 AM)

    A member of four of San Antonio’s five title teams, Ginobili averaged 7.5 points and 18.7 minutes a game last season.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Anthony and D’Antoni May Reunite, This Time for the Better
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:59:28 AM)

    Five years after D’Antoni resigned from the Knicks, Anthony wants New York to figure out how to trade him to the Houston Rockets

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony to Trail Blazers unlikely despite players’ pitch
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 4:27:31 PM)

    The Trail Blazers can keep dreaming.

  • [NYDN] Ex-Knick Stephon Marbury says he’ll retire from playing in 2018
    (Wednesday, July 19, 2017 11:44:47 AM)

    Stephon ‘Starbury’ Marbury announced in an Instagram post Wednesday that his basketball career will end in 2018.

  • 155 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.20)”

    If Melo to Portland becomes a real possibility, I wonder if we could flip Moe Harkless to Charlotte for MKG

    If Melo to Portland becomes a real possibility, I wonder if we could flip Moe Harkless to Charlotte for MKG

    thumbs down on that. They’re the same age, Harkless is cheaper, and MKG’s shot is totally broken – he’d be borderline unplayable in a real playoff series.

    been thinking about this whole Melo situation, and I think there really is a good chance that Melo is a Knick this season. Short of our new front office caving and taking Ryan Anderson and/or Morey caving and giving multiple 1st rounders, it’s really hard to find an acceptable deal on either side.

    (I’m sure the trade will be announced today and I’ll feel like an idiot!)

    But in all seriousness — it would be difficult for a new front office team trying to establish itself as a legit partnership to cave on Anderson when they’ve made it so obviously clear that they don’t want him. And Morey is too smart to give multiple 1st rounders.

    The only semi-compromise could be something like Anderson, some non guaranteed contracts, Isiah Taylor, a 2020 top 3 protected pick, and a 2021 or 2022 pick swap (non protected). My feeling is that Morey could justify that.

    Meanwhile – interesting video shared by Tommy Beer – Melo practicing floaters in the lane. If we could develop that into a weapon, it would be huge for him. He had no problem getting within 5-6 feet of the rim last year, but just couldn’t get shots off because of his declining athleticism. Floater-game would really help. https://twitter.com/tommybeer/status/888006930819678209

    Melo practiced floaters last summer, tried it a couple of times in games and it looked awful. What I’d like to see Melo develop is an actual ability or desire to ever get into a full sprint and move at speed.

    As far as Melo sticking around next year I don’t see it. I think as long as the Knicks FO sticks to their line in the sand that Melo will open up more destinations he’s willing to waive his NTC for as training camp approaches. Right now it’s easy to say Houston or bust, but if the reality sets in that the Knicks aren’t going to take Anderson’s trashbag contract back in return I don’t think Melo is going to stomach a season on the Knicks after they’ve made it abundantly clear through their actions and words they don’t want him and have placed zero priority on competing right away.

    Here’s what’s gonna happen:
    Melo reluctantly stays and buys in to youth movement
    Training camp opens
    Melo soon realizes that all the young players have taken the quantum leap and are now ready to contend
    KP is in the MVP discussion, leads league in blocks, puts up a .200+ WS48
    Melo is an all-star at a .180 WS48 averaging 22/7/5 at a .560 TS% at 28% USG.
    Willy averages 25/13 per 36
    Dotson is in ROY discussion, shoots 42% on 3’s on 7 attempts per 36
    Frank plays 15mpg of plus ball as a combo guard
    Ron Baker wins MIP at a .120 WS48, edging out Kuz
    Knicks go 50-32
    Knicks lose to Celts in ECSF in 7
    Z-man wakes up

    Z-Man

    >Here’s what’s gonna happen:<

    I was with you until you got past this point. 🙂

    those floaters look like short pull-up jump shots without the guide hand… which i guess is sorta what its supposed to be, but something is off… he just can’t not make it a jump shot… :-/

    Harkless + Leonard > Anderson

    Harkless is a decent player with some upside. You could play him or trade him.

    Leonard is bad, but if he improves his 3 point shooting you might be able to trade him in a year.

    I’m not a fan of including Leonard. That’s a bad contract. In fact, I think he’s what held up the Houston deal. No one wants him unless you include a pick.

    Portland has an extra first from Cleveland they’d likely to be willing to include.

    I’m guessing if Melo OK’d Portland the deal would be for Harkless, Leonard, Davis’ expiring (which you could probably give to a team wanting C depth for cheap) and that 1st.

    Edit: Forgot they took that 1st this year. Still think they’d be willing to deal a lotto protected 1st of their own.

    Just listened to the Lowe/Begley/Beck pod and the mystery of the Baker contract is over. Lowe briefly mentioned that Baker is repped by CAA and Begley or Beck said yeah but they never discussed the CAA Bargnani and CAA Chris Smith history or discussed that’s why he got the sweet deal. They just speculated about other reasons. It looks like CAA’s got some clout with Begley/Beck/Lowe that they didn’t even talk about its influence.

    Beck mentioned Dolan likes loyalists and celebrities but he really should have also included CAA as well. Warkentien’s still collecting a nice salary for doing what exactly? More ominous is that Melo is probably gonna get what he wants. The logical compromise would be if Melo really wants to leave to offer a 1 year buyout. My guess is he won’t take that and there will an Anderson/picks/hartenstein type deal. Or he’ll just stay if that’s really what he’s wanted all along and this is all a charade to show he does really care about winning.

    Tough to root for this team. Mills covers up for celebrity Isiah/MSG and is now a Dolan loyalist. Isiah returns to coach the Liberty and is influencing Knick Bball decisions through Mills. CAA had to go dormant for a while after Bargs and Chris Smith generated terrible publicity but is now as influential as ever. We really needed Phil to succeed.

    That’s why as flawed as phil was, there was a case that he was a bulwark to something worse. Dolan is the cancer.

    I’m not a fan of including Leonard. That’s a bad contract. In fact, I think he’s what held up the Houston deal. No one wants him unless you include a pick

    Well yeah, it’s a bad contract. Meyers is basically only playable if he makes a good percentage of his 3’s, and last season was the worst 3 point shooting year of his career. If he bounces back that’s a moveable deal. The league is obsessed with stretch bigs, and if he can hit 3s and a reasonably high clip he’s not owed a huge amount of money. You could probably talk a team into taking a Leonard hitting 38% of his 3s with only 2 years and 20 million left on his deal.

    How about this trade:

    Houston gets Carmelo

    NYK gets Devin Harris (4.4MM expiring deal, perfect vet PG), Ryan Anderson, Hartenstein, Houston 2020 1st

    Dallas gets Houston’s best 2018 2nd round pick

    Houston isn’t going to get Carmelo Anthony. As the off season drags into slow season, Melo and Morey will realize they don’t have the assets to do it. They will need Phoenix and/or Charlotte to get involved.

    Apparently the Portland players have been talking to Melo about how great their owner is, how Melo could get good connections in the tech world if he was there, etc. They really want him. I think there’s a good chance Melo could be convinced about Portland. They are always a decent team, the fans are great, it would be one year only for him if he wanted out after a year. The defense would be atrocious but that would be a fun team to watch. AS we get closer to training camp and it becomes clear that Houston can’t happen but the Knicks don’t want him and he doesn’t want to be a Knick, he has a choice. Waste another season here or go to a team that actually wants him that would be better where he’d win some games. And it would just be for one year if he didn’t want to stay.

    I still think Morey is pandering here….

    And pairing Melo with McCollum and Lillard is really a horrible idea.

    I think Morey would be perfectly willing to trade Anderson + expiring contracts for Melo. That’s a reasonable deal for Houston.

    The difference between dealing with Portland and dealing with Houston is that Portland has more assets to give and doesn’t need to also be remunerated for taking Anderson.

    So they can actually pay us both for Melo and for taking bad deals – swanigan, Collins, future picks… is take harkless, Leonard and some of those…

    DRed – you’re anti-Melo bias is so obvious. How is taking back a player who has a worse contract than Melo a reasonable deal at all when Houston WANTS Melo and Anderson makes no sense for the Knicks?

    If Anderson was a PG you could make the argument that it would make sense for us even though the contract is worse but Anderson plays a position that we do not need any more players at and his contract is a year longer (at basically the same salary) as Melo. That deal is not reasonable.

    Yeah, Melo isn’t leaving New York. The Knicks’ FO isn’t waiving him or trading him to the Rockets for a bag of peanuts, and he won’t waive his NTC to go to Portland. He can kick and scream all he wants but it is way better for us to let him expire (so we can predictably give Andrew Wiggins a max contract offer) than to take back Ryan Anderson’s bad contract in what is already a jam-packed front court.

    Bro he said it’s a reasonable deal for Houston, not us lol.

    Given our Noah + Lee + THJ cap situation plus KP’s impending extension (if he’ll even sign it!), we really can’t take back a 3 year contract that isn’t a foundational (or even semi-useful) long term player.

    Would much rather slog through 1 more miserable year, get a high pick, then have Melo opt out.

    I think the NYK-HOU-DAL trade is the very minimum I would accept. Prob would still ask for another 2nd round pick or two at least from Houston.

    The only team that I can see being convinced that Ryan Anderson would help their cause is Charlotte, but even then Houston doesn’t have the assets to sweeten any deal (and MKG’s price is probably high enough that you need assets to get him). This Melo to Houston trade isn’t happening.

    It’s just so hard to wrap my head around the fact that the only place Melo will waive his NTC for is the place where D’Antoni coaches… and where D’Antoni probably has no use for him in any capacity… and where the GM is probably least duped by his pointzz…

    Portland, on the other hand, is probably a perfect place. Terry Stotts is an underrated coach, working for a very caring and competent ownership/management. They lost 4 starters and managed to improve two summers ago. And that is with a system centered around high volume chuckers.

    Anthony could do a lot worse than taking his talents to Portlandia. In fact, I’d expect much worse results if he goes to Houston… I just don’t see that move ending well.

    RE: Potential 3 teamer with Portland

    Leonard isn’t very good, but I think he can be salvaged and become servicable in Hornacek’s system. He can still roll to the basket and make the occasional jumper. All we would need him to focus on is competing defensively. He can be our new Plumlee, but at an exorbitant price with better offensive game. I’d almost be thrilled to have him in part because in comparison to Melo, his price tag is less which means money off the cap. And even if Melo wanted to go to Portland, the amount of crap we’d have to take back pretty much ensures multiple 1sts (ie: Leonard & Turner). Plus we’d likely be able to dump Thomas in that trade and still get Harkless. But It’s never gonna happen.

    Melo’s going to Houston. It’s the only trade that makes sense for both parties. If Houston would give us Ariza with Anderson and multiple picks- one being a first- I would take that deal and be done with it. No sense in draggin it out. The only way Melo’s trade value is goin up will be a resurrection of 2013-2014 Melo.

    Frank you have to get on the MKG train. 24 years old this September, is the rebounder you need next to KP when he plays the 5, and is an absolute lockdown defender. Check this film of him out:

    https://youtu.be/JqKTV5c7WUg
    https://youtu.be/vQY6KzkMIeA

    Offense be damned, could you imagine building a defense around KP, MKG, and Frank Ntilikina? Considering the offensive players KP, Willy Hernangomez, and TH2 already are, that defense could be the best of its generation with enough offense to keep it together.

    Morey’s not giving us Ariza or Gordon. That would defeat the whole purpose of having Melo, which is to load up to go against the Warriors. If you lose your best wing defender you’ll have zero chance against the Dubs. (you’ll have zero chance anyway, but is there a less than zero?)

    Would much rather slog through 1 more miserable year, get a high pick, then have Melo opt out.

    Don’t get why so many people think Melo would opt out of 28m. Is some contending chip team in a city he wants to be willing to offer 35yo (in playoffs) mediocre Melo at least a 3yr/45m deal? Maybe but then those teams will likely be capped out next summer so how are they gonna pay him?

    Derrick Rose is in talks with the Cavs. That is freaking hilarious. I can’t imagine someone who is less suited to play with Lebron and Kyrie than Rose.

    Anyway – my prediction:

    No trade to Houston.
    No trade to Portland.
    Melo plays at least 1 if not 2 more years with us. All this “not interested in coming back to NY” is posturing to try and get his 1st choice, which is Houston — but if it doesn’t happen, he’ll be happy enough staying in NYC.

    I feel really bad for Motumbo if he buys the Rockets.

    They’ve been trying to trade Ryan Anderson and his asinine contract for weeks. Now it looks like they might be unsuccessful. Dikembe is going to have to sit down with him and try to get his buy in to be re-assimilated with the team.

    Rose makes some sense for Cavs. They didn’t have enough offense when Bron went to bench against GSW. That’s why I think Morey would be very happy to have Melo. Morey said on Lowe pod that you’ve gotta score 130 to have a chance against GSW. Even d’Antoni would be fine because Harden and CP3 will be the alpha players on that team and have all the clout. Melo could play the 4 or even the 5 against GSW so defense might not be such an issue.

    We needed to hire one James Tiberius Kirk as our GM because he was the only one who could solve this Kobayashi Maru, Rubik’s Cube, Mystery Wrapped in an Enigma of a Melo trade 🙁

    Rose makes some sense for Cavs. They didn’t have enough scoring when Bron went to bench against GSW. That’s why I think Morey would be very happy to have Melo. Even d’Antoni would be fine because Harden and CP3 will be the alpha players on that team and have all the clout. Melo could play the 4 or even the 5 against GSW so defense might not be such an issue.

    D-Rose and Kyrie might literally get into a fistfight over the ball when Lebron is on the bench. And if we though the Cavs defense was bad, imagine DRose, Kyrie, and Love on the floor at the same time when Lebron sits.

    Rose is basically unplayable with Lebron, or as unplayable as anyone could be with Lebron. He’s not a good cutter off the ball, which is how Wade made a living with LBJ despite being a non-shooter.

    D-Rose and Kyrie might literally get into a fistfight over the ball when Lebron is on the bench. And if we though the Cavs defense was bad, imagine DRose, Kyrie, and Love on the floor at the same time when Lebron sits.

    Whoever has the better match-up would get the ball. Coach Bron would make sure of that. I think the idea in signing Rose would be to use as a bench scorer. It looks like Rose’s value is low on the market so he may have no choice but to accept it. It’s true defense could be a real problem but what defense is stopping GSW anyway? That’s why Morey believes the best strategy is to try to match them on the offensive end.

    Rose makes some sense for Cavs. They didn’t have enough offense when Bron went to bench against GSW.

    I mean someone’s gotta soak up that usage.

    Yeah I think if Melo could open up his mind a bit to the idea of playing for a team that isn’t stacked with one of his “super friends” then he would find that a situation like Portland for one year or two would be really great for them. They would be a good team with him. Not going to win a title but hey, maybe they do better than expected and make the WCF. They would be a playoff team at least and that has to appeal to Melo after the shit storm of the last 4 seasons here. Their fans are awesome. Their owner is awesome. Their coach is great. I mean, he could do A LOT worse. ITs gotta feel good that they want him, right? That their players are actively recruiting him?

    It’s not that easy to put together a trade with Portland directly that doesn’t contain either a bad contract or some duplicative player.

    I don’t mind taking back bad contracts from Portland because I think their picks will have value. Melo isn’t going to make them good.

    Rose is essentially a poor man’s Kyrie at this point, so I guess I could see that.

    The latest Zach Lowe podcast has some good Knicks stuff. Apparently Porzingis was very unhappy with Rose, so that should keep him from coming back to the Knicks.

    Derrick Rose is a shitty player in a vacuum, and it’s hard to think of someone who is a worse fit for the Cavs specifically. Dumbass moves like this need to be kept in mind every time someone complains about GSW being too far ahead of the pack.

    I agree with everyone who is starting to suspect Melo will be back here. Unless Lillard and McCollum can successfully sell him on craft beer festivals and whatnot, I just don’t see a way to get him out of here AND get back assets. Thanks, Phil!

    The only thing I can think of is trying to get Anderson to one of the teams that knows they can’t compete for a title, but is trying to win as many games as possible anyway for whatever reason. He’s still an above average player so he might be appealing to teams who are desperate to add talent despite his salary. New Orleans and Detroit come to mind, but it’s looking more and more like a lost cause.

    I mean Rose is not good, but the Cavs only choice is to try to win in the immediate future, and they have extremely limited options to improve a team that isn’t really all that close to beating the Warriors. I can see why they think it’s worth the risk.

    It seems that players like Rose and D-Will are still somehow marketable to thousands of fans who have no sense that they’ve declined tremendously. The type of people that were excited when we got T-Mac and who post comments about ‘Melo on Twitter like “let NY keep disrespectin u bro.”

    They would be a good team with him. Not going to win a title but hey, maybe they do better than expected and make the WCF.

    Nah?

    You have the Warriors (70 wins), Spurs (>60 wins) and Rockets (>60 wins) in the West. You think Lillard, McCollum and the Shell of 2009 Carmelo Anthony is going to make the WCF? Nah?

    I agree that Rose to the Cavs and Melo to Houston/Portland makes weird sense. The only way to compete (if not actually beat) the Warriors is to try to outscore them. Waves of shooters and scorers.

    If Rose could settle to play about 15 mpg off the bench for the Cavs, he’d help. Just tell him to drive, drive, and more more drive. Get LBJ and Kyrie a bit of rest to be stronger late in games, etc.

    Same idea with Houston and Portland with Melo.

    Load up as much scoring depth on your team and hope that the Warriors suffer a key injury in the playoffs.

    I didn’t think about Detroit as a possible landing spot for Ryan Anderson. I really think he belongs in Charlotte though.

    Houston did sign Tucker and BAM to man the wings. Might be insurance in case they get desperate and include Ariza in an trade.

    Jowles I clearly said maybe they do better than expected.

    I don’t know. Theyd be better than the Knicks and they want him. Seems like a no brained for him if he can’t get Houston. It’s just one year.

    Wiggins 30$ million a year extension. Did I miss this already ? Is he 12/13$ million better than THJr?

    If he bounces back that’s a moveable deal. The league is obsessed with stretch bigs, and if he can hit 3s and a reasonably high clip he’s not owed a huge amount of money. You could probably talk a team into taking a Leonard hitting 38% of his 3s with only 2 years and 20 million left on his deal.

    I can’t sign off a deal for a bad player on a bad 3 year contract because he “might” bounce back with a good year from 3 and then someone “might” be stupid enough to take him. I want nothing to do with him, but if he came along with a decent 1st rounder I might consider it for awhile.

    Melo’s #1 priority has always been maximizing his salary, so we have to assume he wants to opt in to the final year of his deal. That’s part of why he wants Houston so bad. They’ll be good in two years so he can get his money and not have to suffer on a bad team.

    We need to leverage that player option to force him to expand his circle of destinations. If we can make him believe that he has to come back here for another two years, he might crack and accept a pretty good situation (Portland). If he was willing to opt out next summer, he’d have more leverage over us. But he’s not, because he likes the $$$$.

    Andrew Wiggins is actually a worse version of Tim Hardaway Jr lol

    One thing I will say in defense of Sir Wiggins is he is only 22 and could eventually be good at something. Right now he’s good at soaking up usage and nothing else. His 3 point shooting is average, his defense is bad, his rebounding is bad, he’s not a good passer and his overall scoring efficiency is below average. That is a TERRIBLE way to spend $148M.

    TH2, on the other hand, is an above average scorer and an average defender. If our move is an F (I don’t know why everyone forgets that we at least got Dame Dotson out of the TH2 trade and overpay series of events), the Wiggins extension is academic dismissal.

    One problem the Cavs had against GS was that Deron Williams was atrocious in that series. He could not score. If the Cavs play Rose 15 minutes a night off the bench, he could be in some lineups with Love and they might be able to buy a few minutes of rest for both Lebron and Kyrie at the same time and still be able to score a little. You can’t think of this in terms of whether Rose is still a good player or the role he played in NY. The question is whether they could use someone that can score coming off the bench for only 2.5M.

    Wiggins plays like he is Carmelo Anthony, but he’s 10 years younger and somehow worse.

    but hey, he had 23 ppg last year, someone has to soak the usage right?

    jokes aside, it was a pretty shitty situation for Minnesota, the guy is still 22, they haven’t played a single minute with Butler on the team but already had to extend him… he’s obviously incredibly overvalued but there’s no way he’d accept less than this.

    I still think Morey is pandering here….

    And pairing Melo with McCollum and Lillard is really a horrible idea.

    Not for us. 🙂

    I don’t care what the other team thinks.

    Last month when Portland came up the idea was that Melo is not waiving his NTC to go live (or play his home games) in Portland. I believe Jowles resides thereabouts and chimed in with his POV, which was Melo ain’t gonna want to be there. Other than getting impatient to get off the Knicks and a few tweets from Lillard and/or McCollom what has changed.

    If CAA is back to having a lot influence at the garden, that would also explain a LOT of the ridiculously biased anti Jackson spin in the media. I thought it was mostly Mills and his group that wanted to get rid of Jackson and seize power. But it was also CAA wanting their power back. It’s all so much clearer now. I may have to change my name to “Stratomatic is VERY despondent”.

    The smart thing for Minnesota to do would have been to sign and trade Andrew Wiggins to another front office that values volume scoring because there is no way Andrew Wiggins deserves to maintain a 29% USG on a team with Jimmy Butler, Karl Anthony Towns, and Jeff Teague.

    It sounds dumb, but Ryan Anderson at $20M + whatever assets you could get for Dieng and Wiggins would have been a solid move for Minnesota. Wiggins has played 8,862 minutes in the NBA and he’s the reason Towns and Rubio missed the playoffs last year. They should have sold high on him and committed to building a winning program around Butler, Towns, and Teague.

    Wiggins 30$ million a year extension. Did I miss this already ? Is he 12/13$ million better than THJr?

    u p s i d e
    m o t o r
    a t h l e t i c i s m
    m e a s u r a b l e s
    h i g h c e i l i n g
    i n t a n g i b l e s
    a e s t h e t i c s

    Report: If #Knicks get 2018 #1, they're interested in SF Michael Porter, C DeAndre Ayton, C Mohamed Bamba, SF Luka Doncic, PF Marvin Bagley.— @kc1nyk (@kylecohenNBA) July 20, 2017

    Strat, what I don’t get about this narrative you keep pushing is that the media was actually very generous to Phil Jackson until it became absolutely clear he was a dingbat. The Afflalo/Williams/Lopez offseason was pretty widely praised even though many posters here saw right through it. Even after that failed, I recall most pundits supporting the Rose and Lee deals. The Noah deal was criticized but that was more of a sanity check than anything else.

    It wasn’t until Phil Jackson tried and failed three consecutive times to put together a one-and-done playoff team in the East, made uncalled for public statements that alienated his own players and players around the league, and became increasingly insistent on playing an offense that players unanimously hated that the media turned on him.

    Seriously, posters here were anti-Phil well before the media at large was. He had a long time to prove he wasn’t an idiot and still couldn’t do so.

    There is no way the Knicks will get the #1 pick, and if they do it’s because Kristaps Porzingis is not the player we need him to be. If KP and Willy Hernangomez are good but literally everyone else on the team is average to bad, you’re looking at what happened last year in Minnesota to Rubio and Towns. That was good enough for the #7 pick, but they play in the Western Conference. As much as I want Michael Porter Jr, we will not be in position to draft him.

    Paul Pierce signs a 1-day contract w/ Boston dressed in Nets workout shorts, but calls DeMarre Carroll "salty" for criticizing Toronto.— Anthony Puccio (@APOOCH) July 20, 2017

    I believe Jowles resides thereabouts and chimed in with his POV, which was Melo ain’t gonna want to be there

    This city is unbelievably white. Like, city. Like I come home to NY and I’m like, “Whoa, there are people of color in this country?”

    We have to remember that Chris Paul is the one pushing this trade. Would he miss Hartenstein, Qi and a #1? I seriously doubt it. There is still the matter of Anderson’s contract though.

    Think about if Phil hadn’t given Melo that dumb NTC. His ass would be halfway to Portland by now.

    Or we could really piss him off and send him to Salt Lake City or Sacramento.

    Wiggins is definitely not worth $148m. But I’d still take him over Hardaway if they were making the same money. He’s 3 years younger and came into the league with a scouting report as a potential two-way star.

    Hardaway’s age-22 season was worse than Wiggins’.

    @ 59 – nothing has changed now. But the closer we get to camp, Melo has a decision to make. Does he stay in NYC where he is not wanted and where he won’t win games and most likely not get into the playoffs. Or can he loosen his demands and go to a team that is decent, would make the playoffs, has a great fan base, owner and coach and that actually wants him there? And it would be for ONE YEAR.

    He can spin it as he wants to get back to just basketball and it can help repair his image a bit to be winning some games on a decent team instead of here where its just going to be more of the same melodrama for him. I mean, yeah, Portland is really white. Its also a pleasant enough place to live for a year.

    Report: If #Knicks get 2018 #1, they’re interested in SF Michael Porter, C DeAndre Ayton, C Mohamed Bamba, SF Luka Doncic, PF Marvin Bagley.— @kc1nyk (@kylecohenNBA) July 20, 2017

    Wait…HOLY FUCK. YOU’RE TELLING ME THAT IF THE KNICKS GET A #1 PICK NEXT YEAR THEN THEY’RE INTERESTED IN ALL THE CONSENSUS PRE-SEASON TOP 5 PROSPECTS???????!!!!!????

    #mindblown

    @70
    If Phil hadn’t given Melo the NTC, he would likely have been traded last season to who knows where. And, Phil might still be around.

    Wait…HOLY FUCK. YOU’RE TELLING ME THAT IF THE KNICKS GET A #1 PICK NEXT YEAR THEN THEY’RE INTERESTED IN ALL THE CONSENSUS PRE-SEASON TOP 5 PROSPECTS???????!!!!!????

    Amazing, isn’t it?

    @64

    I’ll try to stay away from this subject after this. I’m beating a dead horse anyway.

    I think the general basketball media is anti NY Knicks, takes pleasure in our misery, and looks to hype low level things into major controversy to create ratings and such.

    I think the NY basketball media is a complete and utter joke on every level.

    I think most NY fans form their opinions in part by what they hear and read from these sources.

    People don’t realize it, but when you get pounded with one spin over and over it has an impact on what you think unless you are very careful to be aware of it. So people often have a very distorted and unbalanced view of reality.

    A kind of confirmation bias can also take over your thinking where people only see whatever confirms what they already think and ignore everything else.

    In my 58 years of life I’ve become passionate about a handful of subjects. Every time I do, I find the media to be an unreliable source on the subject. It’s often incompetent, ridiculously biased, and agenda driven. So I’ve learned that if I want to learn about a subject, I have to do independent research to the extent I can and try to find a handful of sources within the swamp I can trust to be accurate and unbiased. I figure out who I can trust by checking what they say on the occasions I already know the answer and seeing how they report on issues that clearly have two sides to the story.

    I simply think there’s a huge gap between perception and reality when it comes to Phil’s 3 years while readily admitting he made a couple of costly mistakes just like they all do.

    The East is Big and Portland is White – these are facts

    Melo is not going to agree to a trade to Portland. It’s Houston , Cleveland, or bust. Yeah I can see him back in NY next year, and I can’t see that ending well.

    strat you should listen to the latest Zach Lowe podcast with Howard Beck and one of the beatwriters-they’re pretty fair to Phil.

    Also Ron Baker is a CAA guy which is a bad sign.

    @60 Strat speaks TRUTH!

    If CAA is back to having a lot influence at the garden, that would also explain a LOT of the ridiculously biased anti Jackson spin in the media. I thought it was mostly Mills and his group that wanted to get rid of Jackson and seize power. But it was also CAA wanting their power back. It’s all so much clearer now.

    jokes aside, it was a pretty shitty situation for Minnesota, the guy is still 22, they haven’t played a single minute with Butler on the team but already had to extend him… he’s obviously incredibly overvalued but there’s no way he’d accept less than this.

    I don’t know. Minnesota could have gotten a lot for Wiggins in a trade and let some other team overpay him.

    I simply think there’s a huge gap between perception and reality when it comes to Phil

    Agreed. The media all applauded the Melo deal when it was signed when it was clearly a monumentally terrible contract at the time.

    I don’t know. Minnesota could have gotten a lot for Wiggins in a trade and let some other team overpay him.

    In theory, trading him for a ton of assets is absolutely the way to go with Wiggins, but in practice, the PR hit would be just so huge that it would never happen.

    Bruno always seems to make the right posts.

    Wiggins is a overpay but what can you do. Hopefully Butler has a tremendous impact on him. I’ve defended Wiggins heavy months ago and maybe this will be the break he needs.

    Anyway Knicks are fucked. I’m still tilted at Timmy and ron baker moves

    Minnesota should’ve traded Wiggins when he was the first overall pick then. Or on another draft night

    Also people act like Wiggins can’t pass but he is actually decent at it when he does.

    I also think not having Rubio will do wonders for the offense. Watch

    If Phil hadn’t given Melo the NTC, he would likely have been traded last season to who knows where. And, Phil might still be around.

    Anthony took, what, $4 mil less than the super duper max contract that was available to him. Presumably, the NTC was in return for that “pay cut”, so that Jackson could have enough cap space to go after Greg Monroe, then finally settle on Robin Lopez.

    In hindsight, that “paycut” was the worst thing possible for NY. They got nothing for it, and are now tied to Melo by the dumb NTC.

    The NTC truly is the career killer of Phil Jackson’s front office tenure.

    You mean the first meaningful move Phil Jackson ever made was the move that eventually did him in?

    In all seriousness, Phil Jackson was not good at his job. He was good at not making messes that ruined the future, but that changed last summer when he gave Courtney Lee, Lance Thomas, and Joakim Noah 4 year deals that take up 30% of our cap space. He didn’t trade any 1st round picks, but neither did the guys in Orlando and they got fired too. I think where he succeeded was trusting his staff to evaluate good players in the draft. Willy Hernangomez and Kristaps Porzingis will be cornerstones for this franchise for the next 10-12 years, and Phil deserves a ton of credit for bringing in the franchise cornerstones. At the same time, Steve Kerr took Mark Jackson’s Warriors and turned them into the most dominant team ever, so there is something to be said for not being able to build a house even if you are great at assembling the pieces.

    And guys we understand Andrew Wiggins is young but he isn’t good at anything besides taking a lot of shots and converting them on a slightly below average efficiency. Paying him as if he’s Anthony Davis is a huge mistake.

    Lowe’s podcast about the Knicks is very good. Beck in particular pretty much nails Phil’s tenure, the good and the bad. Phil definitely needed to go, but sadly it could be worse. Let’s hope the new GM restores some competence.

    Anyone that’s wondering how Rose and Kyrie will share the rock, just remember to add JR to the equation. I bet the shirtless one is seething right now after that last bong hit.

    I see Melo getting traded at the trade deadline and not earlier. If the Knicks know what they’re doing, they play hard-ball in such a way that his stats look empty and he becomes so desperate to leave that he accepts the trade offer. That can work one of two ways. 1) He rides the pine like some D-league scrub 2) We ride him like a cheap whore, play him 42 minutes a game until his knees start to ache.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think Wiggins is a bad basketball player.

    but as Minnesota, you’re going all in on Butler having superstar impact. Remember, he can get out of there two years from now… They dont have time to trade Wiggins for future picks or even younger dudes and wait until they develop, and they’re a small market team.

    I fully agree that trading Wiggins and letting his development be someone else’s problem was the ideal thing, but when Paul George gets traded for Sabonis + Oladipo, how much would Wiggins command in a trade? You cant just let him walk if your the Wolves.

    Here’s my biggest fear in the Melo-drama:

    TH2’s 2017 stats: .602 TS%, .550 eFG%, 4 rebounds/36, 4 assists/36, WS/48: .167

    KP’s 2017 stats: .597 TS%, .545 eFG%, 9 rebounds and 2 blocks/36, WS/48: .201

    Willy H’s 2017 stats: .575 TS%, .520 eFG%, 13 rebounds/36, 3 assists/36, WS/48: .195

    The Knicks come out playing great team basketball with Melo in the fold and snag a 5 seed close to the trade deadline. Instead of selling Melo, we trade our 2018 1st round pick and Lance Thomas for Eric Bledsoe. Melo then signs a 3 year max extension. The Knicks, after the trade deadline, lose KP to a lower back injury for two weeks and the whole thing falls apart. When KP comes back it’s too late to fix the issues and we miss the playoffs.

    It will be near impossible to trade an underwhelming Andrew Wiggins when he’s making $30M a year. I still think they should have traded us Wiggins and got back a 1st round pick, Courtney Lee, and Ryan Anderson. They would have won 50 games and had a great team around superstars KAT and Jimmy Butler.

    how much would Wiggins command in a trade? You cant just let him walk if your the Wolves

    I think his value is pretty high. I bet over a dozen teams would be happy to give him the max. He’s young and athletic, so I know at least one team that would give him a mega max, a full NTC, a trade kicker, and a player option.

    (As an aside… it just occurred to me how strange it is that we gave Melo a NTC and a trade kicker, but I digress.)

    @94

    If they were all to produce at that level you’d be looking at a 3 seed in the east and you’d have to be ecstatic about that independent of any downstream consequences. But your nightmare scenario won’t happen, because I see almost zero chance at Melo being resigned at a max extension–no one is into the idea on either side.

    I do agree that it’ll be difficult to trade Wiggins in the future, but at the same time, I suspect that they think Wiggins is a good player, so it is not like they’ll WANT to trade him. Plus, Jimmy Butler undoubtedly thinks Wiggins is a good player, ya know?

    I think actually signing Wiggins to this contract helps his trade value.

    No one would trade for him if he could just walk away the year after… he’s still 22 and widely regarded as a promising player around the league, if he fails miserably to produce with Butler + Teague people will still look at ppg and say “but hey he’s 23 and scores 22 a game”, and if they trade for him he’s under control for 5 years.

    Its crazy that such a mediocre player is getting so much money, but I think he’s still very much tradeable if he really cant improve.

    i always thought a challenge trade with the magic for aaron gordon would work out for both teams…. you never see that anymore though…

    i think wiggins was better suited for the 2 given his limited skillset but butler of course changed that…

    Interesting, I guess I can see that. I it might depend on how well he and Butler gel. If Butler starts bitching about him, as Butler is wont to do, that would hurt his value a bit, I think.

    Its crazy that such a mediocre player is getting so much money, but I think he’s still very much tradeable if he really cant improve.

    We talking about Wiggins or Melo here?

    I’m on the side of people that think the Wolves will be pretty good and will surprise, even though they obviously won’t get very far in the west.

    As much as I like Rubio, Teague is a much better fit alongside Butler and if either Butler or Wiggins can become a more consistent 3 pt shooter (both were around 36% in 3 or so attempts last year, not impossible to consider one of them might become a 40% shooter) they’ll be hard to handle. Butler also will get the hardest assignment on D which would free Wiggins to be less terrible against lesser wings.

    I think people underrate just how incredibly good Butler is.

    Plus, Jimmy Butler undoubtedly thinks Wiggins is a good player, ya know?

    we need an advanced metric that adjusts a player’s value for his powerful banana-attracting pheromones. a banana score. so maybe wiggins is only worth $10m/ yr but if he increases your chances of resigning butler he has a +5 banana score and is worth $15m. this is roughly morey’s argument in favor of the ryan anderson/eric gordon contracts: he claims they never would have gotten chris paul otherwise (very close to an argument that cp3 is in fact bananas). of course you also have to debit the value of the relevant top banana for an equivalent amount.

    Be careful not to assume that what Wiggins is now is what he’ll always be. He hasn’t even played his age 22 season yet. Jimmy Butler, who’s now a great player, was absolutely god-awful in his age 22 season.

    Wiggins may never grow into that contract, but he still has plenty of time to do so. It’s not the same as Melo signing a max at age 29.

    when was the last time a former MVP, who is only 25, and coming off a year in which he was healthy, would be forced to take an 80% paycut? wow.

    I mean, there’s probably not many former MVPs who got injuries as significant as Rose had (and he should never have been MVP anyway but that’s another discussion)

    I think the NY basketball media is a complete and utter joke on every level.

    I think most NY fans form their opinions in part by what they hear and read from these sources.

    I don’t understand this blame-the-media narrative for the Knicks’ bad PR. Do you really think Phil or Dolan or Mills is being unfairly singled out? These guys are clowns! Their moves were horrible and the team sucks every year. Is that Frank Isola’s fault?

    The NY sports media is prone to sensationalism, yes. Many reporters are happy to pile on the Knicks because the front office has treated them like garbage for years — refusing to allow them access to players, sending PR goons to hover over their shoulders during interviews, etc. But the media’s possible bias doesn’t make the Noah signing bad. The Noah signing makes the Noah signing bad, and it makes Phil stupid for doing it.

    I live in DC and never read NY sports coverage. Yet I still hated the Hardaway signing, the Baker signing, the Noah signing, the Rose trade, the Bargnani trade, Phil’s arrogance, and all the rest.

    when was the last time a former MVP, who is only 25, and coming off a year in which he was healthy, would be forced to take an 80% paycut? wow.

    You freaked the hell out of me – “Derrick Rose is only 25? What the what?!” Okay, phew, next year will be his age 29 season. That makes more sense.

    There was a great line somewhere where, if Rose signs with Cleveland, that would mean that every MVP winner from 2009-2016 will be a member of either the Cavs or the Warriors.

    Wait; you guys don’t think Melo stays in New York to be on a successful team through his mid 30s? The guy doesn’t care about winning a championship, he cares about making money and being comfortable (which isn’t a crime, by the way). You think he’d rather live in Houston for one year before moving wherever the Banana Boat travels to (probably LA) than stay home in his Chelsea apartment, raise his son, and be celebrated as a Knick legend?

    If the Knicks are a good team next year through the winter there is zero chance Carmelo Anthony leaves. Zee-row. All of our young players love Melo. He will get to take the last shot and play into the EC Semifinals every year, probably further if LeBron leaves, and he’ll be the one superstar through this era that remained loyal to his fans and his city despite EVERYONE telling him to do otherwise, including his fan base! Trust me. If KP is a superstar and Willy/TH2 develop into borderline All Stars the narrative will quickly shift. Melo will want to stay in town and be Dad Melo.

    Why do people assume Melo won’t like Portland because its mostly white population? That’s racist. From what I hear and read the Pacific Northwest is a wonderful place to live.

    @113

    Melo strikes me more as a bottle service club guy after a meal at Carbone than a kombucha drinking juice cleanser who listens to sleater Kinney and goes barefoot hiking

    Let’s be honest if you’re a multi gazillionaire like Melo is anywhere in the US besides LA and then Bay Area is a downgrade from NYC

    (And as a staunch east coaster give me NYC over either of those sun bathed hellscapes and give me Portland Maine over Portland Oregon any day of the week)

    @82 the media, including Bill Simmons, who was still good at the time, applauded the original melo trade as well.
    Strat is right that journalism is dead and full of people who don’t know anything about the subjects they write about and many just outright lie, but two things can be right at the same time – the other being that the Knicks deserve everything they get for their performance since Dolan Jr took over.

    A common rumor in NBA circles is that Mills signed Tim Hardaway, Jr. before hiring a General Manager in an attempt to make a splash and show Jim Dolan that he deserved the President of Basketball Operations position.

    UGH.

    Didn’t realize that Ty Lawson was only 29. He’s probably coming here for the vet min. He sucks now, but again, who cares? At least he passes the ball.

    How can KP and Willy improve with no pg and ball hogging melo on the team? In what universe do some of you dwell?

    Just as a reminder: Nerlens Noel is still available and we signed THJR and Ron Baker instead.

    Be careful not to assume that what Wiggins is now is what he’ll always be. He hasn’t even played his age 22 season yet. Jimmy Butler, who’s now a great player, was absolutely god-awful in his age 22 season.

    yeah, it’s fair to hold out hope for any super-athletic 21 year old. one thing about wiggins though is he’s played 8800 minutes and his #s have been oddly consistent save usage and some normal 3p% volatility most guys who start slow then explode don’t flatline over so many minutes. i’m not going to say it’s impossible he turns into a $30 million player, but it would be hard to convince me there’s a scout alive good enough to make that an intelligent bet. 34 guys have played 8000 minutes by age 22 and only one has a cum bpm below -2.0.

    So, report now that Melo is willing to waive the trade kicker. So, something positive there.

    well, it’s not like Noel is a great fit for the Knicks… and Dallas will probably match any non-overpay offers.

    taking at flyer at Lawson wouldn’t be terrible if it’s one year only non guaranteed.

    He isn’t very good and I hate his guts, but he can be a stop gap solution if he can manage to at least grab an uber after getting drunk.

    i keep thinking to myself – the knicks front office must have a plan for point guard next year…they must – right?

    there’s has to be some sane rational explanation why we passed over about a half dozen plausible to okay to good options for someone to come play point guard for us…

    maybe they really believe frank is the answer at the point next year…

    I bet the shirtless one is seething right now after that last bong hit.

    is it really possible for anyone to “seeth” after a bong hit 🙂

    hmmmm, i may need to do some testing later on this evening…

    Per Joe Freeman of The Oregonian (via Drew Shiller of CSNBayArea.com), Lillard wished the Warriors “good luck” if the Blazers trade for Anthony and the two teams square off in the playoffs:

    “I can only imagine what it would be like having him iso’ing on one side, and C.J. in a corner, and me on the opposite wing and Nurk (Jusuf Nurkic)…I can only imagine how hard it would be to guard us when it’s already hard to guard us.

    “We can compete with anybody in the West, but I think when you get to those teams like Golden State, if we happen to run into them in a playoff situation now—we getting in the paint, and if they want to help off someone like Melo…good luck.”

    i keep thinking to myself – the knicks front office must have a plan for point guard next year…they must – right?

    I think they want to try to complete a Melo deal before moving on to PG because they don’t know what they are going to get back in a Melo deal. They don’t know how much cap space they might have available or who they might be willing to trade.

    i keep thinking to myself – the knicks front office must have a plan for point guard next year…they must – right?

    They do have a plan. It’s for Boy Band Baker to make a 300-500% improvement.

    strat you should listen to the latest Zach Lowe podcast with Howard Beck and one of the beatwriters-they’re pretty fair to Phil.

    I did and I agree with you.

    It was one of the more balanced reports I’ve seen/heard, but it comes after the fact.

    Phil is gone and only now are we are finally getting some reports about how despite the Noah and NTC debacles he left the team with a pretty good core of young talent (possible even stealing Dotson in the 2nd round), all it’s picks, and a pile of cap space (that Mills just screwed up).

    @82 Brian

    Agreed. The media all applauded the Melo deal when it was signed when it was clearly a monumentally terrible contract at the time.

    Like I said, the basketball media is utterly incompetent or rooting against us. 🙂

    I agree with you that it was bad deal, but I don’t think any GM/President on earth would have let him walk or traded him at that time almost right out of the box.

    There’s a subset of the advanced stats community that thinks he’s very overrated (you and I are among them), but there are also a lot of smart stats and basketball people that think he’s very good even if he’s not an elite superstar. The fact that Morey is interested now after going after him when he was a free agent also totally blows my mind. But that sort of tells the story. No way Morey would have let him go either. He wanted him. Some smart people think he’s good. I disagree. If the media is right, it’s by accident. Most of them don’t know enough to even have the conversation.

    Phil is gone and only now are we are finally getting some reports about how despite the Noah and NTC debacles he left the team with a pretty good core of young talent (possible even stealing Dotson in the 2nd round), all it’s picks, and a pile of cap space (that Mills just screwed up).

    ….despite missing 2 1st round picks in 4 years.

    The Knicks have been solid at drafting for the most part of the last 10 years or so. I don’t know how much credit we should be giving Phil for those prospects.

    Imagine if Phil had actually succeeded at putting together those playoff teams together the lasts few years. Instead of the KP and Frank lottery picks we might be looking at a core of Trey Lyles and Justin Jackson.

    Morey only wants him for free. Like, sure I’ll take extra cheese on my burger if you’re offering…

    there’s has to be some sane rational explanation why we passed over about a half dozen plausible to okay to good options for someone to come play point guard for u

    The team was incompetently run by a man whose main goal heading into free agency was ensuring he retained organizational power in the short term

    I agree with you that it was bad deal, but I don’t think any GM/President on earth would have let him walk or traded him at that time almost right out of the box.

    There’s a subset of the advanced stats community that thinks he’s very overrated (you and I are among them), but there are also a lot of smart stats and basketball people that think he’s very good even if he’s not an elite superstar. The fact that Morey is interested now after going after him when he was a free agent also totally blows my mind. But that sort of tells the story. No way Morey would have let him go either. He wanted him. Some smart people think he’s good. I disagree. If the media is right, it’s by accident. Most of them don’t know enough to even have the conversation

    Right. Compare Melo to Bradley Beal for instance. A good Melo is a far better , more versatile player. In the NBA Melo is a max player. He may have been overrated as he was compared to Lebron naturally but he’s a max player in his prime due to the artificial player salary ceilings.

    I guess it depends what you mean by “max player.” By definition, anyone who the market grants a max contract to is a max player. That doesn’t mean giving them their max contract is a good idea in terms of percentage of cap/production ratio. Melo’s max contract has always been impossible to justify in that sense. He forces you to get extra value on a lot of your other contracts if you want to have a good team with him. It’s not impossible to do (we’ll always have 2012-2013!) but it’s a suboptimal way to build a team.

    Carmelo at 27 was a max player in the NBA, his production wasn’t quite superstar like but it was fine to pay the player he was at 27-28 max money.

    33 Carmelo, no way. Morey obviously knows this, so I think the best news to come out lately is this surge of absurdity coming from Lillard and McCollum.

    They obviously have no idea what they’re talking about and yet they are pretty much the Blazers, and probably have huge sway over what the franchise does. The Knicks need to use their desperation to be relevant as leverage, even if Anthony eventually rejects waiving the NTC.

    their insane delusion is the Knicks’ best weapon now.

    their insane delusion is the Knicks’ best weapon now.

    My favorite was Draymond laughing at them on twitter.

    Darryl Morey also sees Carmelo Anthony as a way out of Ryan Anderson’s contract. It’s really just a salary dump that also appeases his shiny new point guard, and he will only do it on his terms. That’s why it won’t happen; because fuck him and his terms. We’re not taking back Ryan Anderson. Melo will stay here and be happy about it.

    I’m sure Morey knows Carmelo isn’t worth his salary, but he’s arguably worth Anderson’s contract and some flotsam.

    Two teams are fighting over Derrick Rose and neither is the Knicks? Double Scott Perry's salary immediately!— Joseph Flynn (@ChinaJoeFlynn) July 20, 2017

    yeah, it’s fair to assume that Morey understands this is his best chance to accomplish both things at once, add a guy his players love and do it while getting rid of probably his biggest mistake recently.

    that’s why we need the Portland thing to be real. If Perry really is the negotiator people talk him up to be, he’ll be negotiating the terms with Portland right now and putting offers at Melo’s table. Fuck Houston and stop negotiating with them until they offer something decent or find a 3rd team to accommodate Anderson. I really want Melo gone, but now things have changed and the Knicks finally have a chance to make something out of nothing.

    CP3 and Melo are just gonna bolt to join LeBron in Los Angeles next summer. If Melo wants out of NY so bad he’ll go live in Portland for 6-7 months.

    You know, I’m starting to like Portland’s chances of getting Melo. I mean, if you would go to Cleveland then why the hell wouldn’t you go to Portland for a year? Say the Knicks make it clear to Melo that Houston isn’t doing what they need to do in order to acquire his services, and that neither is Cleveland. We can still trade him to a playoff team, one that isn’t too far from his home in LA, and if he doesn’t like it there he opts out and goes with D Wade and LeBron to Los Angeles.

    @141 – “Fuck him and his terms” , amen. The Knicks need to stay strong on that or they will get hosed again. “Fuck Morey and his Terms ” would make a great bumper sticker or T shirt.

    I agree with you that it was bad deal, but I don’t think any GM/President on earth would have let him walk or traded him at that time almost right out of the box.

    I think there would be a number of GMs who would have signed and traded him, which was the best possible scenario at the time.

    But yes, most GMs would have re-signed him for the max.

    Shane Larkin was available and the Knicks signed Baker and THJR. Hell we could probably have all 3 if we weren’t incompetent.

    That’s very cool of Larkin to turn down bigger money to stay in Europe to come back to the States to prove himself. I believe the Knicks could have signed Larkin even after the Baker and THJ deal, as Baker took the minimum from Boston, right? I’m not sure I buy the revamped Shane Larkin anyways, so I don’t mind them missing out on him.

    Do I REALLY want Shane Larkin? In a vacuum, meh. On a team with only centers, shooting guards, and Lance Thomas. Yes please.

    There are guys as good as Larkin still out there for the vet minimum. Aaron Brooks, for instance (Aaron Brooks isn’t any good, either, of course, just noting that there are guys of Larkin’s level out there still).

    Comments are closed.