Knicks Morning News (2017.07.02)

  • [NYDN] Ron Baker, who got 2-year deal from Knicks, sad to see Phil go
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 9:59:18 PM)

    A year ago, Ron Baker came to the Amway Center in Orlando as an undrafted prospect on a non-guaranteed deal.

  • [NYDN] Knicks ready to let Porzingis be featured player on offense
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 9:57:42 PM)

    Hornacek speaks about the future as if Carmelo Anthony is already gone.

  • [NYDN] James Dolan should ask Adam Silver for help to fix the Knicks
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 9:11:52 PM)

    Dolan was the last guy in town to know that Jackson had to go.

  • [NYDN] Jax firing gives Jimmy Dolan chance to reshape his Knicks legacy
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 9:26:02 AM)

    On his way out the door, Phil Jackson provided James (Guitar Jimmy) Dolan ultimate cover.

  • [ESPN] Ex-Cal great, NBA veteran Imhoff dies at 78
    (Sunday, July 02, 2017 2:02:06 AM)

    Ex-Cal great, NBA veteran Imhoff dies at 78

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Silent So Far in Free Agency, Knicks Try to Move On After Phil Jackson
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 7:36:00 PM)

    The team has done little to sign free agents so far and is still in need of a starting point guard. But doing little is better than doing something stupid.

  • [NYTimes] Stephen Curry Is Set to Sign Record N.B.A. Deal With Warriors
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 5:59:04 AM)

    Curry’s new contract with Golden State, which will be finalized on July 6, is said to be worth $201 million over five years.

  • [NYPost] Hornacek talks up Porzingis in way Phil Jackson wouldn’t
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 4:55:05 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — Knicks president Phil Jackson said in mid-April he didn’t believe Kristaps Porzingis is ready to be the No. 1 option. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek disagrees with his former boss. “That’s his next step and growth as a player — be able to handle some of that,’’ Hornacek said after the Knicks’ summer-league…

  • [NYPost] Knicks mull swooping in on obscure Suns forward
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 4:20:27 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. – In an attempt to get younger and athletic, the Knicks were mulling an offer sheet for restricted free-agent power forward/center Alan Williams. Who? Williams, out of little University of Santa Barbara College in California, came from the Chinese Basketball League late in the 2015-16 season and excelled off the Suns’ bench last…

  • [NYPost] Where everyone landed in whirlwind NBA free agency Day 1
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 3:38:17 PM)

    Later, that same day… The first day of NBA free agency produced the richest contract ever, reactions to a power-shifting trade, lots of agreements and enough meetings to last a lifetime. The negotiations began after midnight Saturday, but already there had been significant upheaval in the league. Paul George was traded from Indiana to Oklahoma…

  • [NYPost] Ron Baker sounds really broken up about Phil Jackson
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 1:13:06 PM)

    ORLANDO — Ron Baker was one Knick sorry to see president Phil Jackson fired. Two weeks ago, at the Tarrytown facility, Jackson helped the 6-foot-4 combo guard prepare for throwing out the first pitch of a recent Kansas City Royals game. Baker, who agreed to terms on a two-year deal for likely the cap-room exception…

  • [NYPost] Knicks shop deals as PG may be down to George Hill, Derrick Rose
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 7:22:05 AM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — Phil Jackson and the triangle are no longer here, but that didn’t enhance the Knicks’ chances of landing the top two point guards on their wish list: Jrue Holiday and Jeff Teague. With their top choices off the board, the Knicks quickly moved on, still seeking their first splash of free agency….

  • [SNY Knicks] Jeff Hornacek says Porzingis will take a bigger role in offense
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 5:42:48 PM)

    Knicks head coach Jeff Hornacek believes Kristaps Porzingis is prepared to take a more significant role in the team’s offense, according to ESPN’s Ian Begley.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks interested in Carter-Williams
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 12:53:27 PM)

    The Knicks are one of six teams interested in free agent Michael Carter-Williams, reports ESPN’s Marc J. Spears.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks, Ron Baker agree to new deal
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 12:25:05 PM)

    The Knicks and guard Ron Baker have agreed to a new deal, he announced on Twitter on Saturday morning.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks reportedly have sights set on George Hill
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 11:20:19 AM)

    The Knicks are have reached out to free agent point guard George Hill, according to Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News.

  • [SNY Knicks] Report: Knicks still interested in Derrick Rose reunion
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 11:53:35 AM)

    The Knicks still remain interested in bringing back Derrick Rose and have reached out to the guard, according to according to ESPN’s Ian Begley.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek noncommittal about Knicks’ free-agency plan
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 7:34:32 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — Jeff Hornacek wouldn’t rule out the Knicks getting a big name in free agency, but he said it’s unlikely because of the Knicks’ lack of salary-cap space.

  • [NY Newsday] Ron Baker excited after reaching agreement with Knicks
    (Saturday, July 01, 2017 7:11:53 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — Ron Baker played on this very court a year ago, an undrafted guard just trying to make the Knicks who was unsure if he would ever be an NBA player.

  • 134 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.07.02)”

    The saddest, most pathetic circus show, having the saddest, most pathetic off season…

    You realize once we do cut ties with Melo, we’ll still have another shit season (obviously) and the Zinger rumblings will start to creep up next year… he’ll want to go play for a winner… the dysfunction can’t end soon enough…

    We need Hinkie… he needs to break us down, to build us back up…

    I don’t have any objections to what we’ve done/haven’t done. No contract that has been given out would’ve made a ton of sense for the Knicks. If we get Alan Williams and some scrub point guard and don’t do much else, that’s fine with me.

    Yep – totally on board so far. Which contract is it we should have topped? If we move a bit of salary, ideally move Melo and bring in a young piece or two I’ll be delighted.

    I couldn’t be happier with our lack of moves. Teague 4yrs/$57M, Jrue Holiday 5yr/$125M? I would pay half for each.

    if you only had access to the the zinger and melo training videos posted this offseason you would think that “knick” was a word for a big name actor training to do their own stunts for the first time

    @Dolan — Just play all the Baby Knicks without Melo. The fans will like it.

    I think Teague is fairly priced. 14M$ per year for a starter is ok. Five such starters would be 70M $, or about 70% of the cap. He is costing much less than Jrue and may be close in actual value.

    Yeah if the Knicks were anywhere near contention I wouldn’t be upset about paying that price for Teague.

    It is truly fucking amazing that he got significantly less than Joakim Noah. Thanks, Phil!

    Teague’s reported deal is worth $19m per, not $14. I think that’s way too high… certainly for a team in our position.

    I haven’t heard about any other teams interested in George Hill except us and Denver. All things considered, I like our chances to grab him. There just aren’t many teams in the market for a point guard right now.

    PJ Tucker went to Houston. That team is going to be really good this year.

    George Hill is good, but has played in less than 50 games 2 of the last 3 seasons and is 31. That combined with the fact that he’ll get a lot of money makes this a hard pass for me. It would be an entirely directionless move. I hope we “miss out” on this one.

    I don’t see Teague as the long term solution. He doesn’t play defense. If we are going to go down the road of getting a veteran for 2-3 years, Collison will probably be a hell off a lot cheaper and he’s not terrible. I’d prefer Hill, but he may be too expensive.

    @10 It was reported that the Pacers are also interested in George Hill.

    Ish Smith may be a goood pickup in a salary dump. He’s a capable distributor who has proven to be adept at feeding bigs off his penetration but he’s so bad with his scoring efficiency and defense that he’s still a net negative starting PG, which is perfect for the time being. Just 2 yrs, $12 million left on his deal.

    I’m also fine with short term deals for Collison and Rondo.

    Is Frankie Nt. out again today? Kind of sucks that we can’t check out the one guy we really want to watch.

    I could only stomach about 10 minutes of that game yesterday, that is some butt ugly hooping.

    Tucker seems like a strong add for Houston. Paul/Harden/Tucker/Anderson/Capela is not a disaster defensively and Tucker is a career 37% corner 3 shooter so they can still spread it out pretty well and jam Capela to the hoop. Pretty formidable.

    edit to d-mar above: yes, french franc is out again today.

    I don’t think p.j Tucker is good anymore.

    Re: PGs

    The Knicks should have traded for Tim Frazier when they had the chance.

    It would be kinda cool if we just ditched Melo for non-guaranteed contracts and draft picks, signed a vet’s minimum PG off the scrap heap, and largely rolled with the young guys. I would love seeing the following starting lineup on the floor: Baker, Lee, Lance, KP and Willy; have OJ, Dotson, Kuz, O’Quinn and Frank playing 10-30 minutes off the bench, depending on their play. I’m not high on Randle, but if he outplays any of the guards, by all means, play him as much as his play dictates. Same with Plumlee and Labeyrie. If Noah comes back, play him 10-20 minutes and give him every 3rd game off. Play the vet only if Baker, Randle and OJ are just incapable of playing the point or get hurt.

    Doing that would put us on the road to being in 2 years where Minny is now, where a deal for a Butler-level player would be possible and would make sense.

    I’m fine with a oj/ frank/ baker backcourt.

    If we don’t get a deal for melo now I think we will see one before the deadline. He can score and teams in the west are so stacked they think they will have the edge by signing him… and he will waive the Ntc to play in the postseason.. just watch, okc, Houston, clippers, Minnesota will be vying for his help.

    Marc Berman? @NYPost_Berman 1m1 minute ago
    More
    Per source, Justin Holiday has offers from multiple teams, including Bulls, who let him go. Nothing from Knicks because everything’s fluid.

    Sounds like we might be running out of Derrick Rose trade rationalizations soon.

    @18 & @19

    It’s my understanding that Onion Jarmusch is not coming over this season. I believe he’s still under contract with Mega Bemax. True draft n stash.

    Has there been any word to the contrary?

    Most likely landing spots for Melo?

    Boston would work (especially if they strike out on their other targets). Crowder, Zeller, Brown and Rozier makes it work.

    Houston? We’d have to take Gordon (not ideal) but he, Ariza and Kelly works. Not likely though bc CP3 likes Ariza. We could work a 3-team trade where someone else takes on Anderson and gets a pick/young player back, but that also seems unlikely.

    LA Clips? We would have to take on Crawford… no thanks.

    Washington? They would have to execute a sign-and-trade of Porter, which would be nice. Doubt they go for that, though.

    Cleveland? Someone would have to take on JR (not us) and I just don’t see that happening.

    @mase

    All I could find were the following quotes from an SNY Knicks Blog post and a Berman article right after the draft:

    “Jaramaz, 21, will join the Knicks Summer League team in Orlando but is expected to remain in Europe next season. ”

    “…a European stash pick who will play at the Orlando summer league, but won’t be on their regular-season roster.”

    I don’t want any of Houston’s putrid contracts to get rid of Melo. I’d rather buy him out and eat the cap space for 2 years than have Gordon or Anderson for 3. Unless someone can work out a 3 team trade, to me, it’s either Boston or no one. Phil must have already seen the handwriting on the wall. That’s why he wanted to buy him out. There are no deals for Melo that make sense for NY. He’s vastly overpaid, not that good, and on the decline.

    I know this won’t be popular, but we just need KP to take obscene amounts of PEDs.

    There is no point whatsoever in buying Melo out unless he agrees to take a lot less and/or opt-out of the last year. None of that sounds likely. If no deal can be made, keep him around in a reduced role and see if he can recoup some trade value. Even if he can’t, maybe he opts out. If he opts in, that would be the time to start thinking about a buyout if there continues to be no deal on the table.

    As of right now, there is literally nothing in it for us to buy him out.

    To me that doesn’t read as him being under contract

    You’re right. I think I just assumed given that both said he wasn’t coming over this season. I guess maybe it’s still a possibility. Surprised we haven’t heard much either way.

    Also, why don’t we just grab a grizzled euro-vet point guard as a stopgap/Tudor for Frank? I’m sure he’d be much cheaper and probably better than most of what’s left out there.

    Why are we all so convinced frank can’t be our starting pg?
    No one has seen him play as of yet

    As of right now, there is literally nothing in it for us to buy him out.

    It’s hard to argue with you, but there are two things to be gained. It becomes KP’s team (sink or swim) and I don’t have to watch Melo anymore.

    Does the Tucker signing take Houston out of the running for Melo?

    Toronto is trying to unload Joseph’s contract now that they’ve signed Ibaka and will presumably keep Lowry (otherwise giving Ibaka that deal is ludicrous). Joseph isn’t great but I would take him over the other stop gap options and his contract is totally fine.

    Also, why don’t we just grab a grizzled euro-vet point guard as a stopgap/Tudor for Frank? I’m sure he’d be much cheaper and probably better than most of what’s left out there.

    I say we go for Henry VIII. The young version. He was pretty buff and quite the athlete until he ate himself out of the jousts. Also, a tough leader of men; Melo will get in line or off with his head! Bloody Mary and Elizabeth I weren’t much into hoops.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

    – I was always confused how frank could play summer league so soon after his crazy draft/championship game. Literally no reason to play this moment

    – KP may be in Europe FOR the ped’s!

    – I like patiently waiting for value/youth to fall to us… I can just make believe we’re a competent franchise or something

    When I first heard the team is interested in Alan Williams, I really really wanted Mills to sign him. Now I’m thinkin maybe not because the difference between he & KOQ is really negligible. They’re almost the same player. Good fit offensively at the 4 next to KP, but better defensively against 5’s. On top of that, Williams is a RFA- so signing him would make KOQ expendable not because Williams is better, but because we would have to recoup whatever compensation we’d give up to sign him. Plus KOQ is the better player and almost as young. Now if Mills can get us a 1st for KOQ in next years draft, that changes my tune. Otherwise, we’re better off keeping him and stretching Noah or more preferably negotiating with him on retirement then transitioning to a coaching role on Hornacek’s staff.

    Joseph, Carroll, and 2018 1st, future 2nd would be nice. I’d actually do Joseph alone if they want just a trade exception.

    Saying he is 18 and can’t start is similar argument people will use to rationalize the resigning of rose!

    I say go for broke let him learn on the fly, if he is not ready start baker… won’t take long for him to be In The starting lineup. Why did we draft him then?!

    Baker, although well-coiffed, hasn’t played very good basketball thus far. Throwing Frank into starter’s minutes will get him injured. It’s better to bring him along slowly. It doesn’t mean we need Rose – there are other point guards out there.

    I’ve always liked Joseph, but he’s still more of a combo guard, no?

    Buying out melo at this time makes absolutely zero sense. I don’t know why anyone here would be pushing for that.

    Actually here’s an idea. We should trade for TJ McConnell and start him at point guard. Obviously he’s a flawed player but he’s a genuine pass first distributor who tries like crazy on the defensive end. He costs no money. And the Sixers have rendered him pretty moot with Fultz and Simmons in the lineup (plus I don’t think you want pair him and Redick defensively).

    What do we care about? Having guys that will throw the ball to Porzingis, be a good teammate/example and be somewhat fun to watch without committing future money. Plus he won’t be able to beat us at the buzzer.

    George Hill may end up the biggest loser in FA this year. Supposedly Utah offered him an extension during the year for 4 years/$88m.

    He may not get nearly that now. His market may be down to Indiana and the Knicks, two rebuilding teams that won’t likely got that long, and the Knicks certainly can’t offer him that much per year.

    Wait, the Nuggets are still interested.

    I wasn’t suggesting we should have signed Teague, just that he was fairly priced. I don’t understand how he can get 18$M in the first year of an 57$M contract unless the contract is front loaded for the benefit of the team’s future cap space. In which case, the average salary is more indicative of the contract value, than the first year’s pay.

    Buying out melo at this time makes absolutely zero sense. I don’t know why anyone here would be pushing for that.

    If the only trades available bring back longer bad contracts (which could very well be the case with offers like Gordon and Anderson), then the only rational choices are bringing him back or buying him out.

    The upside of bringing him back is the chance he may opt out next year. Then we can let him walk and free up cap space one year earlier. That would really help.

    The downside is that he doesn’t opt out because there isn’t a good enough long term contract available and we are stuck with him for 2 more years stifling the development of the young players and potentially being disruptive.

    Not having him around would force the young players to develop and may even get us a better lottery pick next year.

    But like I said earlier, my self centered desire is to finally close this chapter, move past him and not have to watch him smile when he screws up, argue with the refs on a call while his man scores down the other end, or smack his head when he takes a bad shot that just happens to go in like he did something smart or good. I’m sick of him.

    I would sign off on getting expiring contracts back even though I am hoping for a real player.

    Toronto is trying to unload Joseph’s contract now that they’ve signed Ibaka and will presumably keep Lowry (otherwise giving Ibaka that deal is ludicrous). Joseph isn’t great but I would take him over the other stop gap options and his contract is totally fine.

    I’d sign off on Joseph at his price for 2 years.

    The Knicks say they won’t move on Anthony until they hire a POBO. The POBO search is going slowly. Nobody is steering the ship. Meanwhile the days continue passing and other teams make moves to improve themselves.

    Knicksy.

    Houston? We’d have to take Gordon (not ideal) but he, Ariza and Kelly works. Not likely though bc CP3 likes Ariza. We could work a 3-team trade where someone else takes on Anderson and gets a pick/young player back, but that also seems unlikely.

    According to the trade machine, if Houston was willing to send Gordon and take back Joakim, we could work something out.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ydddkn76

    I doubt the Rockets would go to such lengths, just to get ‘Melo, though.

    Dotson definitely has a chance to be good value…not sure how I feel about that

    Toronto is trying to unload Joseph’s contract now that they’ve signed Ibaka and will presumably keep Lowry (otherwise giving Ibaka that deal is ludicrous). Joseph isn’t great but I would take him over the other stop gap options and his contract is totally fine

    What about Randle for Joseph and a 1st?

    Back to post one. I’m indifferent toward our current position … it’s the fact that we are in the position and are left holding whatever it is that we’re holding

    @40 – williams is almost three years younger than KOQ. Plus KOQ has an option next year and will opt out for a bigger deal. Apparently pheonix is offering Williams 5-6m per – so we’d have to give maybe 7-8 so they didn’t match? It’s not a needle mover, but I think Williams for three years and $22m total is probably better than KOQ for one more year and then a raise to more than that. Bit meh either way.

    Turned on the tv to get my first taste of 17/18 Knicks action and found the summer league squad down by 30. It’s going to be a great year!!

    It’s unfortunate that Randle looks so bad playing PG, but that’s really my only concern about these blowouts. Frank isn’t playing, and several of our better young players aren’t even on the summer roster.

    If Randle winds up playing a lot of PG for the real Knicks, THEN I’m worried.

    Back to post one. I’m indifferent toward our current position … it’s the fact that we are in the position and are left holding whatever it is that we’re holding

    Yeah, it’s becoming increasingly clear that Phil accumulated assets at an astronomically slow pace. This could be a long few seasons…

    Dotson and Labeyrie showing promise.

    Assuming KOQ opts out after next year, maybe trading him now and putting Labeyrie on the roster for less money makes sense.

    @ 55 – I think it’s unknicksy. We don’t have cap space anyways or not much so I love that we’re letting everyone else give out the big contracts for dudes like Teague and holiday. We shouldn’t be adding any long term salaries anyways at this point. It’s good that Mills and company are keeping a low profile and not creating more restrictions on our future POBO by signing guys long term to big contracts.

    @ 55 – I think it’s unknicksy. We don’t have cap space anyways or not much so I love that we’re letting everyone else give out the big contracts for dudes like Teague and holiday. We shouldn’t be adding any long term salaries anyways at this point. It’s good that Mills and company are keeping a low profile and not creating more restrictions on our future POBO by signing guys long term to big contracts.

    There are other moves you can make besides giving out long-term contracts. We should be furiously trying to unload Melo and Lee and collect more assets, but I guess doing nothing at all and letting entropy take effect is better than letting Phil fuck things up worse.

    The Knicks have a crappy roster AND no cap space – Truly
    Amazing

    Dotson sure looks and plays like an NBA player. I didn’t realize Labeyrie could shoot 3s. He looked like a guy worth a bench spot. Rest of team awful.
    Luke Kennard looked just like he looked in college, affirming my belief that he’s better than monk.

    I didn’t get to see the game today, but just looking at the box score three things stick out:

    1. Another bad game for Randle, though he did hit 5/10 threes.
    2. Labeyrie 10 and 11 in 20 minutes. I’d say he’s in line for a training camp invite. A pleasant surprise, so far.
    3. Only 3 minutes for Jaramaz? He should get more than that. Let’s take a look.

    The undrafted free agents aren’t showing much.

    Dream scenario: Hill slips through the cracks and decides to do a one year deal and roll the dice on free agency next year. Knicks get him for Rubio money for one year as a mentor to Frankie.

    Since Hill is often hurt, it might even be okay for the tank. No Rondodrama this year!

    Also, I LOVE Hornacek publicly calling for KP to be the focus of the offense. This is how to marginalize and antagonize Melo without looking bad like Phil did.

    I’m not surprised at all by Louis Labeyrie’s summer league performances; his stats this year in LNB Pro A were unbelievably excellent. He should make the roster because he’s good at basketball and he’s the ideal stretch 4 to put next to KP. It’s even better than he’s French and would give Frank Ntilikina somebody to talk to in his native tongue, which I assume should make him more comfortable.

    How crazy would it be if the Knicks in 2019 had all of Ntilikina, Dotson, Labeyrie, Hernangomez, and Porzingis earning major minutes in our rotation? I’m glad Phil is gone, but the team looks to have some good young talent.

    Our UDFA signings made no sense to me. I saw Rathan-Mayes play a lot at FSU and always came away thinking he’s not even good enough to be on an ACC roster. Kornet and Hayes are both pretty uninteresting. It’s annoying because Kennedy Meeks probably would’ve chosen NY over Toronto.

    My PG choices would be:
    1. Cory Joseph
    2. Dante Exum
    3. George Hill for 2 years
    4. If hill goes to Denver….Jameer Nelson

    – I think Teague is a three year deal, no? AAV $19m…

    I checked and you are right. I went by what another poster had written. $19M is not cheap. But it might be ok, given the current market and cap.

    @ 70 – the front office has clearly stated since Phil was let go that they want to trade Melo and are actively trying to do so. Do you want them to rush into a trade that gives us bad contracts just to get rid of him? As far as Lee I see no rush to move him. He’s a decent player on a decent contract and is probably more valuable in a mid season deadline trade than an off season trade. Any bargain FA signings always happen after the big name big contract signings happen first. That happens every summer.

    Hill for 2 years would be okay with me. Doesn’t matter because of the Noah and Melo contracts. We’re capped out no matter what, might as well clear cap space for when the Noah deal expires.

    @ 70 – the front office has clearly stated since Phil was let go that they want to trade Melo and are actively trying to do so.

    Actually, I read the opposite: that they are waiting to hire a POBO before moving on Melo. This was in the NYP just two days ago.

    Where did Labeyrie come from?

    Late in the second round of the same draft where we took Cleanthony and Thanasis. Would be funny if he winds up being the most useful of the three.

    That video of Gaines and Mills laughing at the Melo 2am workout video is gold.

    I wonder if the Spurs could help Tyreke Evans salvage his career Boris Diaw style.

    No thanks to George Hill or Rondo even though I like both of their games. Clearest message we can send to Melo is that we’re making no win now moves.

    No buyout. Accept a trade (unlikely at his $) or opt out. Or just be a good teammate. You’re Arod now. He was actually a good teammate post ban.

    In two years we could be really good with player development high draft picks and no stupid FA deals.

    No three year deals for Melo.

    report on dailyknicks.com that we contacted Dion Waiters. OMG I hope it’s actually Granville Waiters.

    man. 2/9 is affordable for him. maybe he didn’t like it here? what’s not to like?

    Begley says we never made a competitive offer to Holiday. Whether that’s a result of a lack of POBO or the Knicks being serious about not paying real money for anyone who’s not a difference-maker, I don’t know. But we still have Lee to start, Baker and Randle are both arguably better at the 2 than the 1, and Dotson has seemed promising in summer league.

    Point guard is definitely the more concerning area, even when Frank is healthy. But Holiday was one of the better (or, at least, overperforming) pieces of last year’s team. Oh, well.

    I don’t really care about losing Holiday but it does drive home what a disastrous clusterfuck the Derrick Rose trade was

    Ben McLemore to Memphis for 2/$10.7 mil. He was another guy we had been at least talking to.

    There was plenty of debate during the year as to whether Holiday was worth resigning. Consensus seemed to be yes at the right price. 2/9 seems about fair. I hoped we might have kept him on a good deal, but ultimately he is a pretty replaceable player.

    It seems to me the Knicks front office strategy this year must be to be terrible and get another good draft pick. Otherwise, why not sign Holiday at that price? I guess it might be the unintended strategy created by a front office in a state of flux, but in this case, it’s better than a bad strategy that’s acted upon.

    Ben McLemore to Memphis for 2/$10.7 mil. He was another guy we had been at least talking to.

    He’s another guy that I’d be surprised if he is still in the NBA when that contract ends.

    Millsap to Denver for 3yr 90m is an awful contract

    The third year I think is a team option so it’s actually pretty good.

    Yeah the team option makes it way more palatable

    The West is getting ridiculous imagine being Memphis or Portland, what’s the game plan?

    I think the league needs to swap one east coast and west coast team out w one another (like Memphis for Detroit) or just scrap the geographical conference idea altogether and redo the conferences in general. That won’t happen bc of all the logistical work but the lopsidedness is getting ridiculous–a team with 35 wins may very well be the 8 seed in the east this year.

    I don’t want to wait a decade for the east to be good again

    Man, at this pace, if the Knicks keep Carmelo (under control), they possibly end up making the playoffs…

    I don’t think it’s reasonable reshaping the conferences just because the Eastern franchises are worse than Western’s. In large part, it’s a matter of management, you can’t change things because some GMs and owners are dumb, or because players, for whatever reason, opt to go (or stay) West when they can go to a Eastern team. It’s like people trying to outlaw what the Warriors did, just because there will be no new champion for 5 years. Kudos to them for having the luck and the skill to draft and sign the right personnel.

    On the one hand, I agree that you can’t change things just because the East sucks, but I do think that it’s fair to say that conferences are stupid. Denver could seriously be a #2 seed in the East and might not make the playoffs in the West!!

    Minny offering OKC’s 2018 #1 pick for a team that will take Aldrich’s $7.3m for next year (and $2m or so more the next year if he’s dumped).

    However, it just might be that George Hill falls in the Knicks’ lap. Again, I wonder if he might be amenable to a 1 year deal and try free agency again next year?

    You have to take that deal. You can just cut Aldrich (or hell, cut Plumlee and give Aldrich his minutes).

    Would anyone be oppose to go after Shabazz as a reclamation project if he can be had at Holiday money? Office seems to be improving but his defense is awful.

    Berman and Bondy seem genuinely angry that the Knicks didn’t even bother to make an offer to Holiday, with Phil gone now they don’t have anyone to rip and mock lol.

    I just don’t get it: why do good players not come to the East when they have the chance? Like, if you’re Gordon Hayward, there’s no way you stays in Utah and waste your prime trying to overcome Spurs, Warriors and Rockets. Go East, man!

    Every year it’s the same story: “the West is gonna be a bloodbath”. I just can’t see why some guys can’t move East and have better odds of reaching the Conference Finals, the Finals or even an All-Star vote. Is it the money, the better management in the West, fear of LeBron or a bit of everything?

    I think it is mostly the better management. The teams are run a lot better and they make themselves very appealing to free agents.

    Teams are run better and the west is generally less expensive than the east if you’re not in CA/Portland is my guess.

    Also places like Denver are actually way cooler as cities than fucking Boston

    Cronin, I fully understand this POV, but I think I treasure more the “rivalry” thing, and I think the banning of conferences would weaken this aspect of the league…

    Of course it would be way cooler to watch the Nuggets in the playoffs instead of the Detroit Pistons, but I don’t know if a Cleveland vs. Nuggets 2nd round series would generate the same frisson of a Cavs vs. Wizards series, or Cavs vs. Celtics, because of history’s weight. On the other hand, it would be more difficult to have opponents going at each other year-after-year, like the Spurs and the Grizzlies, or Knicks-Heat back in the day.

    I think it always better when we have a good rivalry going, so I’m not ready yet to leave the conference system behind.

    P.S.: I think the league would have to completely reshape the schedule to make the non-conference thing work. Otherwise, it would be even more unfair than now for the teams that play in the East. And this kind of change is generally thorny.

    @113

    I don’t like conferences in general but you don’t necessarily have to eliminate them, just reorganize them on the basis of recent or historical record or something to ensure more parity, with special preferences for maintaining rivalries.

    It’s not happening but any conference not organized on the basis of W-L parity between conferences is going to have this issue

    Woj reporting Melo willing to waive no-trade clause to Houston or Cleveland. Would love to see him in Houston to see how he gets along with D’Antoni and plays with CP3 and Harden. But just have no idea what Houston would offer since the article says the Knicks don’t want Anderson in a trade and rightfully so.

    Also places like Denver are actually way cooler as cities than fucking Boston

    Thank you for the example. Except for the legalization of marijuana in Colorado, I would never think of it, you know? In my mind, Boston is a big city, something close to NYC, with an active nightlife, this kind of thing… Well, these are the things that I have more trouble in grasping, since I’m Brazilian. Thanks.

    Yeah Boston is actually only the 22nd largest city in the country–its influence dwarfs its population though given its historical importance and location.

    It’s not a good nightlife city, imo, though it has great intellectual resources given the large amount of universities. That being said it’s much more expensive than a place like Denver with not much in the way of advantages that an NBA player would find persuasive, imo. You go to Boston to win, not to party, unless you’re Jahlil Okafor

    Plus Boston doesn’t exactly have a great history in terms of civil rights and racism.

    It seems to me the Knicks front office strategy this year must be to be terrible and get another good draft pick. Otherwise, why not sign Holiday at that price?

    Wait, Justin Holiday is the difference between being terrible and being good?

    For as bad as the east is shaping up to be, NY could very well come in dead last in it (with or without Justin Holiday, I’m afraid).

    Think the Millsap deal takes Denver out for Hill unless he’s willing to take less to go there.

    Just us and Indy? If we could clear 5m of salary by trading Kyle (or Lee) for a minor asset I would 100% offer him two years 20m per. Maybe a team option for year 3.

    Yes, he’s off the timeline and too ‘good’ for tanking. But we’ll still be bad, especially if we get rid of Melo. Meanwhile he’s many people’s upside comp for Frank as a two-way guard who can play on or off the ball. He’d be a great mentor. His ast rate isn’t great but he’s clearly a team guy and would buy into the need to develop Kris as the focal point.

    Melo is open to go to Houston or cavs the problem is there is no good trade from Houston. Hope morrey will find a third team for Anderson. Is there any team wants Anderson? No good trade from cavs also. Hope they will do love trade. Hope there will be miracle in dealing Melo but I like our style of no deal and let Melo suffer with young guns unless a good trade comes up.

    Plus Boston doesn’t exactly have a great history in terms of civil rights and racism.

    Dee Brown was literally almost arrested for robbing a freakin’ bank in his rookie season! He was forced down on the ground with guns drawn on him and everything because, hey, black guy robbed a bank and Dee Brown is black, so hey, what were the cops supposed to do?

    I would go three years on Hill, just to line it up with our other bad contracts. Two is better but three is totally passable.

    I still think we should put out a feeler for Otto Porter. Washington is kind of dicking around and might not want to sign him to a max contract. If that is true then sign and trade Melo for him.

    I fear another team will put out a max offer on Porter and force Washington’s hands.

    One of the fascinating things about the exploding salary cap the last couple of years is that while yes, players want to get roughly the same as the other players are getting, but it’s also so much easier for players to say, “Damn, $30 million a year is still a shit ton of money!” He just got a guaranteed $60 million over two years when his previous contract (signed when he was three years younger) was 3 years/$59 million.

    So I suspect that we’ll see less players push for the max max.

    A third team to take Anderson would be great – we could get maybe Hartebstein and their 2020 first, plus a bucket load of cap space.

    With the cavs I think the key is finding a second asset for Cleveland so they can justify giving up Love for Melo. Like a three team with pheonix that gets them love, Cleveland gets Melo but also maybe Kyle and Dudley. Shrimp goes to either pheonix, or to us and we move him on. And we get young assets from pheonix…

    To get Porter we would need to convince him NY is his best option. Right now the teams looking to max him out are the Kings and Nets. They might be the only two less attractive destinations than here. If he wanted to come here he could threaten a max with Sacremento and then tell Washington if they don’t want him to do that then sign and trade him here.

    It all depends if Washington wants to max him or not. If they don’t then we maybe would have a chance. I don’t know why we don’t meet with him and offer a max straight up. I would love for us to be the team to force Washington’s hand and I would rather have Porter than anyone else we could spend the money on.

    I agree on trying to get porter but offering the max doesn’t really force their hand. We don’t have a max to give… so the ball is as much in washigton’s court as ours.

    Surely we just go to the Wiz and make them the offer – if they’re unsure on 4years 100m with porter maybe they prefer 2/50 for Melo, with the chance if it doesn’t work that it’s actually only 1 year?

    All this can play out because he can’t actually sign an offer sheet until 7th. Until then he can only verbally agree – so Wiz could go to him with that deal before he ever has to decide on the others…

    Wait, Justin Holiday is the difference between being terrible and being good?

    I would not go so far as to say he makes us “good”, but I think we are a little better with him than with whomever we get to replace him. It’s probably not a big difference, but every deal matters and has an effect. Now we can, say, use Dotson instead of him. Then we have a younger player that probably won’t play as well, but could improve in the future, we have a little more cap space next year, and we are taking a shot on one more young player and seeing what he can do.

    Anthony wants to go to Cleveland? Gift wrap him to the airport and quickly, please! I would take Jefferson, Frye and a 2024 first round and thank them for their kind gesture.

    What about a 3-way with Cavs, Celts and Knicks?
    Cavs get Melo + a modest pick/player combo
    Celts get Love
    Knicks get a 2018 Nets pick and a young player + filler

    @120

    It’s helpful to note too that the Jazz played at the slowest pace in the league last year and Heyward did much of the ball handling which probably depressed his assist rate. Hill has never been a great passer, but he always makes a good decision–his turnover rate is quite low, iirc

    So Justin Holiday is gone, another reason to hate the Lopez-Rose trade. Now if Damyean Dotson becomes a stud, we can call it quits, but that’s about it, right?

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