Knicks Morning News (2016.05.18)

  • [New York Times] 76ers Win NBA Draft Lottery, and Lakers Get the Second Pick (Wed, 18 May 2016 04:00:08 GMT)

    Duke’s Brandon Ingram and L.S.U.’s Ben Simmons, considered to be franchise-shaping players, are heavily favored to be the top two picks in the June draft.

  • [New York Times] Warriors’ Home Games Are a Show Befitting the Team (Wed, 18 May 2016 07:00:23 GMT)

    Games at Oracle Arena have been called the best show in sports, with a high-energy team working toward another N.B.A. title. But most of the show is not basketball.

  • [New York Times] Cavaliers 115, Raptors 84: Cavaliers Show No Signs of Slowing in Rout of Raptors (Wed, 18 May 2016 03:21:27 GMT)

    Kyrie Irving scored 27 points for Cleveland, which turned the evening into a glorified pickup game and has yet to lose four weeks into the postseason.

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: J. R. Smith, a Mischief Maker as a Knick, Learns to Share in Cleveland (Wed, 18 May 2016 03:31:33 GMT)

    Defensive stopper? Judicious shooter? It still depends on the day, but there is little question that Smith has become a steadying force for the Cavaliers.

  • [New York Times] Cavs Crush Raptors in Eastern Opener (Wed, 18 May 2016 05:21:27 GMT)

    As 3-pointers fell at historic rates through the first two rounds of the postseason, LeBron James’ message never changed: The Cleveland Cavaliers are not just a team of jump-shooters.

  • [New York Times] LeBron, Cavs Stay Perfect, Blow Out Raptors 115-84 in Game 1 (Wed, 18 May 2016 04:00:48 GMT)

    Still unbeaten, still undeniable.

  • [New York Times] Cavs Crush Raptors in Eastern Opener (Wed, 18 May 2016 03:54:35 GMT)

    LeBron James made his first nine shots and scored 24 points as the Cleveland Cavaliers hammered the Toronto Raptors 115-84 on Tuesday in Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals to extend their perfect start to this postseason.

  • [New York Times] 76ers Win NBA Draft Lottery, Lakers Stay at No. 2, Keep Pick (Wed, 18 May 2016 01:00:45 GMT)

    The Philadelphia 76ers have lost big for three years, when they appeared to value draft picks more than players.

  • [New York Times] Sixers Win Top Pick in Draft Lottery (Wed, 18 May 2016 02:00:27 GMT)

    The Philadelphia 76ers landed their first No. 1 overall draft pick in 20 years on Tuesday at the NBA’s Draft Lottery. Philadelphia have endured a dreadful three-year stretch that was a part of a rebuilding plan to restock the franchise with top picks.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Wednesday's Knicks Links: Lottery picks goes to Nuggets (Wed, 18 May 2016 04:53:29 EST)

    Wednesday's Knicks Links: Lottery picks goes to Nuggets

  • [New York Post] GM who’s twice ripped off Knicks explains Bargnani trade (Wed, 18 May 2016 00:59:08 -0400)

    While the top-seeded, forever rebuilding 76ers won Tuesday's NBA Draft Lottery, Raptors general manager Masai Ujiri was the man of Midtown, on the dais to secure the final first-round prize to the 2013 blockbuster trade of Andrea Bargnani to the Knicks. Ujiri chose Manhattan over Cleveland — missing Game 1 of the Eastern Conference finals…

  • 64 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.05.18)”

    While we all agree that PG/SG are our positions of greatest need, I’m more than a little tempted to pick a PF depending on where the pick that we hopefully buy lands. I don’t mean to be a UNC homer, but I think Brice Johnson would be a perfect fit with Kristaps; our Latvian savior is going to be playing the stretch 5 role in a year or two, and Johnson is the perfect kind of PF–a bona fide athlete who has a strong, efficient interior game and transition game and is a good offensive rebounder–to complement a stretch 5. If we could trade up, I would salivate over the prospect of a frontcourt of Sabonis/Porzingis, but that ain’t happening.

    I think securing our frontcourt of the future could be an idea that pays dividends, since I think there’s a lot of good, diamond-in-the-rough PF prospects this draft in the mid to late first round, which we could very well be in, if we move O’Quinn or buy a late 1st. If we could manage to get a late 1st and a mid 2nd, I’d be all for drafting, say, Johnson with the 1st and someone like Gary Payton Jr. with the 2nd.

    It’s probably better to just focus on drafting a SG or PG, but I think drafting a PF (or even a SF) is a viable option if we’re in a certain pick range.

    Thoughts?

    So if we can buy a pick, it’s probably mid to late second round-there’s no point drafting for need. If there’s a guy you think is a legit NBA player still left, draft him.

    This team badly needs another SF-Melo hasn’t had a good back up since he’s been a Knick.

    I asked this in yesterday’s thread, but is it really unlikely that we can buy a late first? Late firsts are basically second rounders on guaranteed contracts, so some top tier cash strapped teams might be a bit wary about keeping their pick, especially in a weak draft.

    Is that not feasible?

    Brice Johnson would be an awesome snag but I’m a little skeptical that he’s going to go as late as currently projected. He’s undersized and all but the numbers sure don’t lie. Seeing as how we’ll only have a late pick, at best, we should probably disregard team needs entirely.

    Man, I’m looking thru the FAs this summer, and getting depressed we are going to lose out. I think Batum will stay put; Charlotte will save $$ with Jefferson leaving and pay him. At the 2, that means either maxing out DeRozan (if he wants to leave Tor), or overpaying Bazemore or Fournier. At the 1, the only real high profile option is an injured Conley. You would have to think Memphis will keep him unless they feel he is damaged.

    I have a feeling we are looking at a Chalmers or Lin plus Basemore back court.

    If Jeremy Lin is our PG it means Jim Dolan is dead or has sold the team.

    Here’s some interesting facts about the Cavs vs Warriors this year.

    Detroit/Atlanta 92-72 record this year
    Houston/Portland 85-79 record this year

    Cavs 22-8 vs the West.

    The thunder are the first really good team that the warriors have played in the playoffs in the last two years. Remember the Cavs were not at full strength last year

    I’d be perfectly fine with a Mario Chalmers acquisition and letting Calderon/Galloway split the 2-guard minites with spot minutes for Lance (whose primary position will be backup SF assuming he stays)

    I would not be fine giving Chalmers any kind of money bar the vet minimum coming off of tearing his Achilles tendon.

    I would love if the Knicks could get 2 second round picks and take Levert and Brogdon. If they’re interested in a tweener forward type in the draft I think Dorian Finney-Smith from Florida would make a lot of sense.

    At the 1, the only real high profile option is an injured Conley. You would have to think Memphis will keep him unless they feel he is damaged.

    Please let them keep him. I have zero interest in maxing out Mike Conley, who is a good player with zero upside left on the verge of getting paid like he’s Chris Paul.

    Man, I’m looking thru the FAs this summer, and getting depressed we are going to lose out.

    That’s the dilemma Jackson faces.

    It’s one thing to theoretically build via free agency. It’s another thing to actually convince all star caliber players to leave money and/or comfort on the table to come to NY. Once you start going to the second tier, you may find value, but you aren’t going to build a contending team unless you already have the stars in place. KP is probably critical to our future. He almost has to become a Dirk caliber star for us to have any shot of building a contender. That would improve our chances of filling out the rest of the team unless we get very lucky with a 2nd round pick or one of our other young players takes a huge step forward. We can easily be good next year, but the path form good to contender is tougher without legit stars.

    OK, so if you don’t sign Conley or Lin, and you don’t want to give Chalmers more than the min, what do you do for a PG. If Batum stays put, I think Bazemore is the guy, but now he likely gets overpaid. The prayer is that GS loses to OKC, decides to make a run at Durant and lets Barnes go. But, why would Barnes come here? Only other option is to sign a big like Whiteside and try to trade Lopez, but are you going to get back what he’s worth?

    some top tier cash strapped teams might be a bit wary about keeping their pick, especially in a weak draft.

    I don’t know about “top tier”, but Phoenix has a history of selling picks. They have the #4, #13, and #28 pick. That’s the first team to call if you’re looking to buy a late first rounder.

    The prayer is that GS loses to OKC, decides to make a run at Durant and lets Barnes go.

    I’d be very wary of Barnes, it would be like a reverse JR/Shump to Cleveland, taking a decent player from a team where he’s not asked to do much, and adding him to a team where he’ll be asked to do a lot more. I don’t think it would work out too well for the Knicks.

    One longer term plan that makes sense is to only try to fill out one of either the PG or SG position (preferably SG and go with Grant/Wroten/Calderon at PG) and not even worry about the other position. We should use whatever other cap room we have to fill out the bench. IMO, the long term plan is probably to move KP to C anyway. If that’s true, we will also eventually be able to trade Lopez to fill out another position (another guard if PG doesn’t work out) with a high quality player.

    The long term plan should be to try to keep from big money, long term commitments. If we can’t sign a youngish, really good PG (and i don’t know how we can this year) you roll with Grant.

    Is “overpaid” still “overpaid” in 2 years? I really don’t know how to gauge salary anymore with the increases. If you “overpay” Bazemore, what’s that like in 2 years, and will we be kicking ourselves for not?

    Please no to Bazemore, i think he is a product of Atlanta system, and he will be overpaid.

    I wouldnt mind Fournier, he is really young and shoots very well; but you are counting on him developing more.

    Not sure about Batum, he passes a lot in Charlotte, but also commits lots of turnovers, and his 3P% has fluctuated a lot and has been so-so the last 2 years.

    I dont like DeRozan, but I guess he is not bad. He does not seem like a good fit with the current roster, although it is possible to envision a different roster in 2 years.

    I wouldnt mind Conley. I think he is a good player and it would be nice to see a structured and balanced team. Will he be that expensive if he wants to leave Memphis (big if, but injuries to the team in this year might persuade him)? I know there is a lot of FA money around, but i dont think there’s such a big demand for PGs (Bucks, Jazz, Spurs?). Maybe he does not get the full max… that would make him reasonable.

    Another option, if Conley is too expensive, is to try to grab Dellavedova. He seems a nice fit for the triangle: pesky defender, 3pt shooter.

    We should expect to keep Grant at PG, and Phil’s comments about not going gaga for PG’s proves it. A good SG would give us a starting 5 of Grant/SG/Melo/KP/Lopez, and that should give you more wins than Calderon/Afflalo-Vuj/Melo/KP/Lopez

    One longer term plan that makes sense is to only try to fill out one of either the PG or SG position (preferably SG and go with Grant/Wroten/Calderon at PG) and not even worry about the other position. We should use whatever other cap room we have to fill out the bench.

    I wouldn’t bother looking at PGs this year. The more critical area of need imo is adding a potential long-term starter at the 2 and then adding at least a stop gap 2/3 wing to come off the bench to use to give Melo and whomever our SG is relief, as well as being an option in small ball KP at the 5 or Melo at the 4 lineups.

    As far as PG is concerned, I’m using this year to give Jerian more rope and see what his potential ceiling could be. If he surprises and shows he can be a starting caliber player, great. If not we have a much deeper PG class in free agency and the draft next summer to address the spot. Throwing money at PGs in a shallow FA market is not a good idea.

    IMO, the long term plan is probably to move KP to C anyway. If that’s true, we will also eventually be able to trade Lopez to fill out another position (another guard if PG doesn’t work out) with a high quality player.

    It might, be the plan, but I’m not sold. If we look at Jackson’s Bulls and Lakers teams he usually had a starting 5 that rode pine in the 4th quarters when he’d go “small” (LO/Pau + Kukoc/Rodman). If in 2 years time KP is ready to be a full time 5, then sure let’s trade RoLo, but it’s not a given that it happens given his struggles boxing out on the defensive glass and normal young big man struggles of anchoring a defense.

    As it is I think what KP gives you is the ability to play big and small which to me is the real advantage he provides. Even if he’s ready to give bigger minutes at the 5, I’d keep Lopez to give us versatility to play big. The Spurs, OKC and Cleveland have had success in the “modern NBA” playing big.

    Another option, if Conley is too expensive, is to try to grab Dellavedova. He seems a nice fit for the triangle: pesky defender, 3pt shooter.

    He’s the only PG I’d be interested in, but he’s also an RFA and I’m not sure there’s an offer we could make Cleveland doesn’t match.

    4 teams own 1/3 of the picks in this draft. That almost seems like it should be part of Bernie Sanders’s platform: “when 7% of the teams own 34% of all incoming talent into the league, that’s not a democracy, that is an oligarchy!”

    But, seriously, here are the teams to buy from:

    Boston: #3, #16, #23, #31, #35, #45, #51, #58

    Denver: #7, #15, #19, #53, #56

    Phoenix: #4, #13, #28, #34

    Philadelphia: #1, #24, #26

    Clippers get Carmelo Anthony

    Nuggets get Blake Griffin

    Philadelphia gets Eric Bledsoe, Greg Monroe, #4 pick

    Phoenix gets Jahlil Okafor, #15 pick

    Milwaukee gets #7 pick

    Knicks get Tyson Chandler, the #1, #19, #24, #26, #28, #34, #53, #56

    Get it done Phil, Doc, and a bunch of other GMs whose names I don’t care to look up right now!

    But, seriously, here are the teams to buy from:

    Boston: #3, #16, #23, #31, #35, #45, #51, #58

    Denver: #7, #15, #19, #53, #56

    Phoenix: #4, #13, #28, #34

    Philadelphia: #1, #24, #26

    Also N.O. and Mil have multiple picks too

    Nola: #6, #39, #40

    Mil: #10, #36, #38

    That is very interesting, Donnie. The Celts have 11 guys under contract next year, and will prob match Amir Johnson, which makes 12. They have cap room to spend. So, don’t they have to either trade players or trade some combo of those picks between 15 and 35? They also have a glut of young, inexperienced guards.

    Den has 10 guys under contract, 11 if Bea Arthur stays.

    Of course, we have nothing either of these teams wants.

    I Wouldn’t mind the knicks taking a flyer on Thon Maker. He kind of reminds me of KP before he played as a 19 y/o. Of course KP played against better competition but Thon just turned 19 2 months ago and after a year of College maybe he turns into a lottery pick. I just think he would make a nice late 1st or early second pick as a draft and stash guy but instead of Europe put him in Westchester. Let him learn the triangle at a slower pace without expectations and I would really just train him to be a versatile defensive force. Why not swing for the fences?

    Other prospects
    Deandre Bembry
    Malik Beasley
    Caris Levert
    Josh Hart
    Jaun Hernangomez
    Patric McCaw

    Late 2nd/UFDA

    Dorian Finney-Smith
    Jake Layman
    Wayne Seldon

    Bryn Forbes

    The guy is a sniper

    The screamingly obvious thing to do with the Knicks personnel would be to move Carmelo Anthony and pick up young players and picks. There are three years left on his deal, which spans his age 32-34 seasons. Because of this year’s cap situation there are many teams that could absorb his contract, and there are several teams that have an abundance of draft picks.

    Instead the Knicks will ride out those three years as Melo declines further. I mean, we all know this, and this is the giant elephant in the room, but it bears repeating. Melo’s continued presence on the roster represents an enormous opportunity cost. It is really just staggering the amount of capital the Knicks sunk into acquiring Anthony, re-signing him and then clinging onto him when his value is obviously declining. By the time this is all said and done we’ll be looking at a decade of trying and failing to build a winning team around this guy.

    I look at Melo’s stat line since he signed the MMM contract and it makes me want to poke my eyes out with a fork. Dude is rocking a .530 TS% with a .112 WS48 over the last two years, and he’s only getting older and more hobbled. That is not elite level production, that is not All-Star level production, that is barely above average player level production. The Knicks are fools not to move heaven and earth to try to get assets in return for this guy before it’s too late.

    I look at Melo’s stat line since he signed the MMM contract and it makes me want to poke my eyes out with a fork. Dude is rocking a .530 TS% with a .112 WS48 over the last two years, and he’s only getting older and more hobbled.

    He also hurt his knee in game 3 of the contract. Had surgery and had to play thru recovery the beginning of last year. I think he will be far better next year.

    By the time this is all said and done we’ll be looking at a decade of trying and failing to build a winning team around this guy.

    The Knicks had a winning record the first 3 years so….

    “but it bears repeating.”
    I wonder if there are people on Blazerblogger.net who are still diligently typing, “THEY SHOULD HAVE DRAFTED JORDAN!!” because, you know, it bears repeating…

    It’s not like this is ancient history. The No-Trade Clause is currently, actively hurting the team’s future. If it weren’t for the No-Trade Clause, I’d be very pumped about the team’s future right now, since they should be able to get some really good young assets for Melo that they could pair with Porzingis to build the next great Knicks team.

    can we like have Mondays as ‘we should trade melo’ day because it’s never gonna happen no matter how much it bears repeating

    It’s not like this is ancient history. The No-Trade Clause is currently, actively hurting the team’s future. If it weren’t for the No-Trade Clause, I’d be very pumped about the team’s future right now, since they should be able to get some really good young assets for Melo that they could pair with Porzingis to build the next great Knicks team.

    A trade doesn’t guarantee higher value. Melo could be far better than anything N u get for him. The grass is not always greener. Melo is a vet who did a good job in that role last year. We were supposed to have the 9th pick this year smh

    We were supposed to have the 9th pick this year smh

    #7, actually. Denver gets it thanks to the aforementioned Carmelo Anthony investment.

    Yeah cuz, being 2 spots back is worse than nothing at all. Ok

    Melo=Bargs. Thanks

    why does anyone think we could get value for Melo? The only way we trade him is if he waives, which means he dictates who he goes to. Why would they give us quality and picks for him? The best player you will get back will either be the guy whose job he takes, or someone unproven. but, you also have to take back salary to make it match, so you only gain flexibility in years 2 and 3. He is ours and we are his, and he seems like a nice guy and has cool hats. just let it be. At least he’s not A-Rod

    Look at his stats from the all star game through march

    Yes, let’s cherry pick the stats from the All-Star Game through March and assume that is the way Melo will play over a whole season. What are you, ruruland or something?

    A trade doesn’t guarantee higher value. Melo could be far better than anything N u get for him.

    He has three years on his deal. He’s gonna be 32. His age 30 and 31 seasons were injury-hobbled and cruddy. Even if he does manage to squeak out one more good season, the 2016-2017 season is basically another rebuilding year. By the time this team is ready to accomplish anything, Melo will be completely shot. Even if you trade him for young players or picks and those guys don’t pan out, you’re not losing anything other than three years of a rapidly declining Carmelo Anthony giving you workmanlike volume scoring for your mediocre, non-contending team.

    Why is this so hard to understand? I feel like I’m trying to convince somebody that the Earth revolves around the sun.

    Yes, let’s cherry pick the stats from the All-Star Game through March and assume that is the way Melo will play over a whole season. What are you, ruruland or something?

    How is that cherry picking? He was getting back into form from surgery. He started the season shooting like shit and was getting better until he hurt his foot in that Boston game in January. From Feb forward he was a lot better. Last I check pre and post all star game splits were a commonly used thing but ok big guy. I cant point at something that was trending up and make assumptions/deductions, but you can talk about “rapidly declining” assumptions. Great fucking logic

    Yeah because anyone who doesn’t shit on Melo at every turn is ruru. Very mature arguement

    It’s not shitting on Melo to say the Knicks would be better off trading him for an array of young talent. And it’s not opinion, either. Every team that rebuilds trades it’s vets for picks when the window closes. Notice Boston has 8 picks in this draft? That’s because they knew when to let Pierce, KG, and Rondo go instead of doubling down on their investment in them and trying to surround them with complementary players when they were past their primes.

    But the Knicks do things differently because, apparently, they are committed to failure.

    It’s not shitting on Melo to say the Knicks would be better off trading him for an array of young talent. And it’s not opinion, either.

    I agree here. I wasn’t talking about this part. All I said is that it’s not guaranteed. My arguement was more around him as a player going forward thinking that he will be better next year. Sure if u can get the 2 from LAL you do it

    Honestly the best value Jackson and Melo provide is that everybody’s so busy ripping their performance, contract, personality, etc. that nobody is going to criticize Porzingis at any point which is pretty useful when you have the Frank Isolas of the world reporting on the team.

    “It’s not like this is ancient history.”
    You’re right. However, like the Bowie draft pick, there is nothing that we can do about it now, so repeating it over and over again, as if it is some kind of revelation each time it is said, gets kind of tiresome.

    I ain’t saying it like it’s some revelation. We’re all sitting here talking about what should be done next in the rebuild when it is as plain as day what the correct move would be.

    But we can’t make the correct move. Because Knicks.

    Even though I’m not a great fan of Melo’s game, I believe that we’ll be in contention this year and we’ll need his scoring and leadership to get a ring so let’s just keep him.

    Even though I’m not a great fan of Melo’s game, I believe that we’ll be in contention this year and we’ll need his scoring and leadership to get a ring so let’s just keep him.

    In contention for a lottery pick, yes.

    To be honest with you, Knickerbruhs, Donnie Walsh is making me reconsider my choice of me as next GM of the Knicks. But that’s the kind of honest self appraisal that makes me think the Knicks should choose me as next GM.

    @ reub, I am your #1 fan, thank you for your efforts bro!
    Some teams’ fans find a way to be optimistic, but not here because you know… #knickfans

    Lebron okay’d Lue being the HC. That’s a pretty big difference from Lebron openly undermining Blatt from the beginning and never being on board with him.

    And honestly this narrative is stupid as shit. The Cavs record and defense dropped after Blatt was gone while their offense improved under Lue.

    Under Blatt they steamrolled the East without Love and with Kyrie injured for large parts of the playoffs before taking 2 from GSW in the Finals without 2 of his 3 best players. So far Lue is doing the same thing with this team at full health and therefore with more depth.

    Lebron okay’d Lue being the HC. That’s a pretty big difference from Lebron openly undermining Blatt from the beginning and never being on board with him.

    And honestly this narrative is stupid as shit. The Cavs record and defense dropped after Blatt was gone while their offense improved under Lue.

    Under Blatt they steamrolled the East without Love and with Kyrie injured for large parts of the playoffs before taking 2 from GSW in the Finals without 2 of his 3 best players. So far Lue is doing the same thing with this team at full health and therefore with more depth.

    I’m not even that big of a big Blatt fan (just when he’s compared to Rambis. he’s like Red Auerbach/Phil Jackson/Gregg Popovich rolled into one), but I totally agree that the narrative he’s getting hit with is total BS. Lebron clearly never liked the guy right from the start (and almost entirely for non-basketball reasons), and while I have no real beef with Lebron getting to pick his coach (dude’s Lebron, he can do pretty much what he wants – hell, I have no problem with any star player trying to get the coach that they want), the only real “problem” Blatt had was that Lebron didn’t want him there. He was likely going to be gone after this season no matter what, so Cleveland figured they might as well get the Tyronn Lue era started early. Cleveland’s basically the same team it was before Lue got there. Lebron just is happier. Which is fine, but it’s not a knock on Blatt.

    Wow. Jeff hornacek is going to be our coach according to the well connected Howard beck!

    Well, I guess all of you better re-frame Phil as you all said you would.

    But seriously, I believe Hornacek would be amazing offensively-… how’s his defense? And Blatt/Vogel were better candidates, I think, so I wonder what happened there.

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