Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, November 24, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.11.09)

  • [NYPost] Knicks GM Scott Perry won’t rule out trade as Noah return nears
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 7:43:01 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — Knicks general manager Scott Perry admits he has a big roster decision “looming’’ as center Joakim Noah returns Monday after his 12-game drug suspension is over, indicating a trade is still possible. The Knicks have to remove someone from the roster to make room for Noah, whom they apparently have no choice…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis-less Knicks no match for Magic
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 4:40:19 PM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — No unicorn meant no victory. The Knicks proved Wednesday they are hardly the same with Kristaps Porzingis in a blue checkered suit sitting on the bench with a bad elbow and ankle. In this season’s first game without “The Franchise,’’ the Knicks hung around for three quarters behind Tim Hardaway’s splurge but…

  • [NYPost] Porzingis out, warns elbow issue may have to be dealt with
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 1:44:30 PM)

    ORLANDO – The scorching hot ride of Kristaps Porzingis cooled down Wednesday night in Orlando when the 7-foot-3 unicorn sat out the second night of a back-to-back with right elbow bursitis and a sprained left ankle. Porzingis said before the Knicks’ 112-99 loss to the Magic that he may need a procedure on the ongoing…

  • [SNY Knicks] Tim Hardaway Jr. nets 26, but Knicks four-game winning streak ends with 112-99 loss to Magic
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 9:35:33 PM)

    Nikola Vucevic scored 24 points and Evan Fournier added 23 to help the Orlando Magic beat the New York Knicks 112-99 on Wednesday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis misses Wednesday’s game, hints elbow may need to be operated on after season
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 7:30:56 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis is unavailable for tonight’s game against the Magic in Orland due to a sprained right ankle and bruised left elbow.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks turning heads with recent play at the Garden
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 6:21:51 PM)

    The Daily News Live panel analyzes the Knicks’ come-from-behind win over the Hornets on Tuesday night and Kristaps Porzingis’ performance.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks at Magic, 7 p.m.
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 5:45:18 PM)

    The Knicks will be going for their sixth win in seven games, but they’ll have to do so without Kristaps Porzingis, who is unavailable with elbow and ankle pain.

  • [SNY Knicks] It feels like the Patrick Ewing days at The Garden
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 4:10:41 PM)

    That it feels like old times seems to be the reaction amongst Knicks fans going to games at Madison Sqaure Garden so far this season. Tuesday night, the buzz in the building truly felt like it.

  • [SNY Knicks] SEE IT: Porzingis swats Zeller three times in a row
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 2:00:13 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis blocked Chris Zeller of the Hornets three times in a row during one sequence on Tuesday night at Madison Square Garden.

  • [SNY Knicks] Frank Ntilikina excelling so far in rookie season
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 12:05:55 PM)

    19-year-old rookie PG Frank Ntilikina is not yet starting for the Knicks, but he’s coming through while being trusted with key minutes down the stretch.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis receives write-in vote for Mayor, says he’s ready for job
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:30:45 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis received a write-in vote for New York City Mayor on Tuesday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis’ late heroics cap another comeback win for the Knicks
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 9:13:40 AM)

    In another comeback victory for the Knicks, it was star F Kristaps Porzingis who iced the team’s third straight win on Tuesday night.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis sidelined as Knicks fall to Magic
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 10:42:00 PM)

    The Knicks were down heading to the fourth quarter again, but this time there would be no stirring comeback, not with Kristaps Porzingis on the bench in a blue sports jacket, and the rest of the team on wobbly legs.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks GM Scott Perry won’t address comments made by Kristaps Porzingis’ brother
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 8:15:00 PM)

    Knicks general manager Scott Perry wouldn’t address Kristaps Porzingis’ brother/agent’s comments to a Latvian magazine about Porzingis’ future with the team.

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis sits out Knicks game with ankle/elbow woes
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 8:10:00 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis missed his first game of the season Wednesday after suffering an ankle injury in Tuesday night’s win over Charlotte and re-aggravating a right elbow issue that he said may require a procedure after the season.

  • [NYTimes] At the Pistons’ New Home, Empty Seats and Hockey Statues
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:00:26 AM)

    The opening of Detroit’s Little Caesars Arena has been followed by a succession of not-so-enormous basketball crowds.

  • [NYTimes] Magic 112, Knicks 99: Without Porzingis, Knicks Fall to Magic
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 4:09:13 AM)

    Playing without their scoring leader, Kristaps Porzingis, the Knicks were overmatched by the Orlando Magic and saw the end of their three-game winning streak.

  • [NYTimes] Maimed but Unbowed, He Understands What Lies Ahead for Gordon Hayward
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 1:18:36 AM)

    Edgar Sosa made his way back to basketball after sustaining gruesome fractures in his right leg during an international game in 2011.

  • [NYTimes] 10 Early Surprises in the N.B.A.
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 11:30:26 PM)

    The Pistons and Magic are good, the Cavs are not, and Blake Griffin is shooting 3s.

  • [NYDN] GM Scott Perry says Kristaps Porzingis is ‘happy’ with Knicks
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 8:24:11 PM)

    Scott Perry would not discuss Kristaps Porzingis’ looming contract extension eligibility or the comments from the Latvian’s older brother.

  • [NYDN] With Porzingis out, Knicks’ win streak snapped in 112-99 loss
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 4:23:05 PM)

    There was no comeback this time for the Babybockers. Not without their star.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis won’t play vs. Magic due to sore ankle, elbow swelling
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 2:00:50 PM)

    Frank Vogel is perplexed on how to stop Kristaps Porzingis, but the Orlando coach may be bailed out of the responsibility.

  • [NYDN] Knicks fan votes for Kristaps Porzingis for mayor of NYC
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 6:58:23 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has captivated New York City and now it looks like one Knicks fan wants him to govern it.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis is doing for Knicks what Judge has done for Yankees
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 6:34:17 AM)

    Porzingis, like Judge, has undertaken head-on the culture change needed from within the locker room.

  • [ESPN] Porzingis out with ankle sprain, elbow bruise
    (Wednesday, November 08, 2017 5:55:24 PM)

    Porzingis out with ankle sprain, elbow bruise

  • 147 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.11.09)

    1. KJG

      @3… he missed his jumpers (chucks)… but he typically doesn’t waste 11 seconds of shot clock to get off a low % shot… he only wastes 1 or 2 seconds to heave one up… i’d say we’re better off with that?

    2. alsep73

      That was definitely the game for Tim to show himself worthy of the absurd faith Mills placed in him. Oh well. I’m hoping this is just a shooting slump, but early returns have been meh.

    3. ptmilo

      He’s another one of those bigs who just got passed by by the game. It used to be that there was a role for a few Al Jefferson types per team, but not really anymore. Now there’s barely room for one per team.

      It’s amazing. Look at the Raptors! They have Valunciunas and Ibaka, which is suddenly already a lot. But they also have Poeltl and Nogueira, young bigs who have looked pretty damn promising in limited minutes. In the days of the Davis brothers, what those are two are doing would be considered potentially franchise changing and pretty damn scarce. And I haven’t even mentioned Siakim or OG, the kind of guy who play anything but PG in 2017. But most of these guys can’t even be on the court together, so it’s a big problem. There’s definitely no room for a Ewing/Oakley/Mason/Bonner/Smith all getting serious rotation minutes in today’s game.

    4. Zanzibar

      That game last might painted a bleak picture of the alternate universe of our team if we had drafted WCS or Winslow. But it also could be the future if KP suffers a serious injury so resting KP was a wise decision. No need to push his minutes. My fear is Hornacek’s feels he’s got something to prove after his last couple of seasons so he might try to ride him like Secretariat playing him big minutes and also too many minutes at the 5. The most important decision the Knicks made in the last 5+ years was drafting Porzingis; arguably the most important action for the front office in the future is preserving him.

    5. DRed

      Was too many turnovers last night, especially from Jack.

      Timmy wasn’t great, but reasonably efficient scoring and 11 rebounds isn’t why we lost

    6. bobneptune

      That game last might painted a bleak picture of the alternate universe of our team if we had drafted WCS or Winslow. But it also could be the future if KP suffers a serious injury so resting KP was a wise decision.

      Breaking news here…. we found if you lose your best/franchise player and you are playing your 3rd game in 4 nights and travel after the game, you just might struggle against the #2 ranked team in the conference on their home floor :-)

      I trained race horse for 40 years and in almost every case where you race a horse that is half sound something bad usually happens. Certainly a fine decision not to play KP after Dwight was wrestling an banging the bejesus out of him most of the evening.

    7. bobneptune

      Was too many turnovers last night, especially from Jack.

      Really they handled the ball like it was a hand grenade with the pin pulled last night. Frank had one egregious one but 9 dishes with only 2 TO is outstanding and 9 assists on the road without your main finisher on the floor in 23 minutes is pretty insane for a rookie.

    8. GoNyGoNyGo

      @bobneptune – I agree 100%. It was a no-win game. If it was a playoff game, or a game in March that might push us into the playoffs, KP would have played. If I were the coach, I would have invented an injury to rest him last night.

      Sloppy play comes from being tired both mentally and physically. I just would have played Sessions, Willy, Dotson and Kuz a lot to sharpen them if and when we need them.

    9. Frank

      So I think we’ve figured out what Jarrett Jack is good at — he’s good at passing the ball to KP, and bad at pretty much everything else. 6 turnovers in 25 minutes (and it certainly felt like more than 6 TOs) is spectacularly bad from a PG who is supposed to be a low-risk guy.

      Career high assist game for Frank (now leading all rookies in assists/36 at 9.1, 5th in the entire league) but it sure looked like he was assist hunting in that 4th quarter — made a couple of unnecessary passes that worked out but could easily have led to turnovers.

      I thought Hardaway was ok on the offensive end — tough to make any headway given the horrible spacing with Jack, Kanter, and Beasley on the floor with him. 26 points on ~23 shooting possessions is not so terrible, and given the 3 TOs an overall PPP of 1.0 is not super awful.

      Defensively though — man it was rough with the starting lineup out there. That’s what you get when you start a 64 year old PG, THJ, Beasley, and Kanter.

      I actually thought the offense was surprisingly good other than all the awful turnovers, most of which were just sloppy as opposed to great defense. An ORtg of 105.1 against Orlando (who has a top 10 DRtg for the season) is pretty respectable considering we were missing our best player by far.

      Anyone else pleasantly surprised by Doug McDermott’s defense?

    10. Frank

      Also – good call resting KP since there are 2 more off days before the next game. I wouldn’t be surprised if they rest him a game every 10 games, or on the 2nd night of back to backs occasionally. Especially a road game as the 2nd night of the back-to-back.

    11. hornyKnickfan

      We lost but Frank’s shot looks true. And he did take it towards the rim a few times which is something that I’m sure he’s working on in practice.
      Jack is a veteran and was probably fatigued but 6 turnovers? He’s the placeholder’s placeholder until Frank can take over permanently.
      Oh, we had a Willy sighting. Good on offense but poor defensive rebounding and horrid free throw shooting.

    12. Bruno Almeida

      Resting KP was a great decision by the coaching staff, there’s no way any play stays fresh with the usage he was having, specially since it’s his first year of being the focal point of everything. I’d be pretty fine if he rested on most 2nd nights of back to backs, unless this team gets into a good playoff spot or something. His health and progression should be the number 1 priority over winning even.

    13. hornyKnickfan

      So we will have to cut or trade someone soon to make room for Noah. I’d vote for the Bease.

    14. Farfa

      I am so giddy about Frank’s assist numbers, but I guess the truth lies in the middle, sometimes he’s passing the ball with the rim right in front of him. That said, I like the kid a lot and his defense is something that was sorely missed around here.

    15. 2FOR18, understands math

      Yeah, that was almost a sure L last night with the 3 in 4 days – as someone mentioned it’s a great betting strategy – that and back to back road games.

      KP should not be playing more than 30 mins a night at this point, esp when you consider the Knicks’ front court depth. Denver keeps Jokic at 30 mpg, and he doesn’t expend half the energy KP does.

      Saw a lot more penetration from Frank which was good; hopefully one day he’ll actually take a shot when he’s at the rim. Baby steps! I really like what I see re: his game to game improvements. I get what Jowles said about how these days the most valuable players are the 67 TS% high useage guards, but jeez, there are only like 2 of those guys in the league, so let’s appreciate a 19 year old unselfish, non-knucklehead defensive whiz of a pg, especially considering how god awful the other 1st round pgs have been. Ball is shooting 29% and playing no defense. (though I’d still take him over anyone else becuase I think he’l figure it out) Smith Jr looks like Brandon Jennings 2.0. I don’t even know wtf is going on with Fultz. Fox has been the best of the bunch so far probably.

    16. d-mar

      We just have to keep reminding ourselves that Frank is 19 YEARS OLD and has played in 11 total NBA games. The offense will come, he’s a little hesitant on pick and rolls to drive hard to the basket, but that doesn’t worry me at all. The positives are that he sees the floor well, his jumper looks technically solid and he plays very solid D.

      I can’t wait to see what he looks like in 2 years.

    17. 2FOR18, understands math

      I was impressed with Timmy on the boards last night. I didn’t think he could handle the 3 in small ball line-ups because we’d get killed on the boards, but he showed something last night. As far as him trying to play some pg – eek, never again.
      McDermott has been a pleasant surprise. He’s the kind of shooter a team like OKC could really use to take advantage of Westbrook’s gravity.

    18. SJK

      Is Ron Baker hurt? I think someone made this point a few weeks ago but if you’re gonna pay the guy all that money it would make sense to at least see what he can do rather than have him be inactive for every game.

    19. chrisk06811

      How can Timmy be Melo-like at 11-21 from the field? take out the 1-5 from 3 and that’s 10-16 from 2. his last 5 games, hes up to 47% from the field. Melo takes 2 more shots a game in less mins

    20. er

      How can Timmy be Melo-like at 11-21 from the field? take out the 1-5 from 3 and that’s 10-16 from 2. his last 5 games, hes up to 47% from the field. Melo takes 2 more shots a game in less mins

      Whats the point of this post? If you take out the Sac and Boston game Melos numbers are great too. SMH

    21. er

      He’s the kind of shooter a team like OKC could really use to take advantage of Westbrook’s gravity.

      McDermott has been great. But his numbers are wayyyy higher than his career numbers right now. We have to wait and see how the season plays out.

    22. djphan

      i don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that the offense will come with frank…. but i did like what i saw out of him last night…. all the flaws he currently has still remains as he seems to be allergic to contact…

    23. er

      I just don’t understand why he doesn’t drive more. Is it a lack of athleticism or fear to go in to the paint?

    24. Bruno Almeida

      He’s 19, it’s his first stint in the NBA, hes clearly focused on being a great teammate and setting up everyone else. He’s tentative of making huge mistakes and still not confident enough to look for his own shot.

      I don’t know if he’ll ever be great at driving and handling, but it’s obviously related to being insecure about doing it still. He hesitates all the time when he has the ball and makes a move. Hornacek and the coaching staff will need to work with him on it, to give him confidence to go and make mistakes and develop.

      The passing and defense have been pretty good still, but he hurts the offense in some ways when he refuses to shoot like that. I hope it is something related to being so young and wanting to be the best teammate in the world, it makes a lot of sense.

    25. er

      I’m not saying to barrel into the paint for contested layups. You can drive and kick. That’s being a good teammate too.

    26. Ntilakilla

      I agree with the critique of Frank’s assist padding. His last assist was where he got a steal was ahead of the defender going to the basket, stopped and waited to pass the ball to someone behind him in transition. Its like he’s the anti-scoring guard. He actually looks for opportunities not to score.

      Still loved his command of the offense, especially on the pick and roll. He’s very advanced in operating within this scheme for his young age, particularly when you consider how he missed participating in Summer League as well as almost all of our training camp games and practices.

      To me, there is little doubt that he’s capable of efficiently running an NBA offense. The question is how much offense he’ll be able to create on his own.

    27. Ntilakilla

      So nobody is worried about the news that KP may need elbow surgery in the off season?

      A little, but if the procedure is draining the elbow then I am not going fret too much about it. Inflammation is a fairly common problem that athletes regularly have to deal with.

    28. djphan

      the thing with frank is that he was like this in france also…. his 3pr/ftr are a bit more exaggerated but his shot selection is roughly the same… in the u18s .. he was the man and shot a lot more… but did so inefficiently…

      finishing against size in the nba takes a)a certain type of mentality, b)athleticism and b)creativity… it’s a very hard thing to develop but not impossible…

      but if you refuse to challenge ppl in there then all guards will have to do is press him tight and they shut everything that he does down since he’s not good at turning that corner… he is good in the pick n roll which is encouraging so if he creates space for himself he can do nice things with it…. it’s just a matter of him figuring out how to do that but it’s a very hard thing to do…

    29. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      If/when Frank starts I’d like to see McDermott start with him. McDermott’s off-ball movement along with Lee’s shooting/handling, KP’s dominance, and Kanter’s offensive rebounding along with Frank’s willingness to pass makes for a really potent offense, and Frank/Lee/McDermott/KP are all looking like plus defenders this year.

    30. ptmilo

      I think frank senses (correctly) that he will have a lot of problems finishing in the paint or even drawing fouls enough to justify the turnovers and missed. His handle is vulnerable, he is weak, he doesn’t have good explosion and he doesn’t have great touch around the basket.

      Some of these things will likely improve a lot. He will get stronger for sure and will probably learn to improve his basket touch (even those floater are so awkward right now). He’ll never be explosive or be an elite burst-handle guy, but that doesn’t mean he won’t improve enough to draw some fouls and be more aggressive. One of his best surprises so far is that he has excellent vision and delivery in the pain when he is going Andre Miller speed.

    31. Mike Honcho

      I think Frank has shown that his worst case scenario is a pretty nice 2-guard: loooong octopus arms, defensive acumen, willing passer, able to hit the three once in while (presumably this will improve). I’m not sold on him as a lead guard, but I think we do have an interesting prospect on our hands and I’d certainly rather have him than DSJr or Monk.

    32. DRed

      Frank is looking like a combination of Rajon Rondo and Jose Calderon so far, which would be a weird but pretty good player.

    33. Farfa

      I think George Hill still makes a lot of sense as a comparison. I don’t feel like Frank will ever be a master shot creator (for himself), but he already shows an innate acumen for passing angles. He just needs to be more aggressive, but that will come by getting minutes. I’m just saying that Frank’s line from yesterday should read 10 points, 7 assists. Which is still very good!

    34. lavor postell

      Idk if I’d call it assist hunting as much as scoring aversion and deference to more experienced players. He’s showing me that he can penetrate and get to the rim though, just unsure of himself when he gets there and as a result is always looking to dish. I believe he can improve on that.

      His PnR distribution is way ahead of Fox, DSJr and Ball from what I’ve seen. Fultz I can’t even start to make any judgments on.

    35. Farfa

      His PnR distribution is way ahead of Fox, DSJr and Ball from what I’ve seen. Fultz I can’t even start to make any judgments on.

      This for sure, especially on the short roll with KP.

    36. JK47

      Out of all rookies who have played significant minutes, Dennis Smith has pretty much been the worst player.

    37. d-mar

      Out of all rookies who have played significant minutes, Dennis Smith has pretty much been the worst player.

      IDK, Donovan Mitchell is giving him a pretty good run for his money

    38. wetbandit

      Is Frank trying to play smart? Yes. Is he playing good defense? Yes. Is he learning? Yes. Is he getting KP the ball with better position to score? Yes.

      Has he played 200 NBA minutes yet? No. Is he 20 yet? No. Is he a negative on the floor? No.

      COME ON HE IS GOOD FOR HIS STAGE THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING ELSE IS JUST CONJECTURE BASED ON SMALL SAMPLE SIZE AND PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS AND WILL BE FUTILE BUT THE POSITIVE INDICATORS ARE THERE DAMMIT

      FWIW I am happy with all losses. Here’s to KP sitting out more games due to non-injury related tanking concerns.

    39. DRed

      Donovan Mitchell has also been pretty awful, which is weird, because I keep hearing media folks praising him. I’m not sure why Utah is giving 14 FGA a game to a kid with a TS% below 45-they should be trying to win games.

      It’s interesting that so far all the hyped rookie guards have sucked at shooting 3’s. Malik Monk is hitting 33% and he’s the best of the bunch.

    40. bobneptune

      I agree with the critique of Frank’s assist padding. His last assist was where he got a steal was ahead of the defender going to the basket, stopped and waited to pass the ball to someone behind him in transition. Its like he’s the anti-scoring guard. He actually looks for opportunities not to score.

      For 100 years I’ve listened to Clyde implore guards to reward the bigs for running the floor on a break and now its devolved into “assist hunting” and stat padding???

    41. ClashFan

      I wonder if the “shine” is rubbing off of Jack and Beasley for Hornacek? At some point won’t Mills, who gave Ron a sweet two-year deal, want him to get some decent playing time to try to justify that deal? And really, would Ron be any worse than Jack is?

      If no trade very soon, surely Sessions will be cut to make room for Noah, though I’d prefer Beasley cut so that H. cannot give him minutes over Willy and Kuz. Those two guys needs some minutes. Kuz if for no other reason than to try to build just a bit of trade value.

    42. Frank

      It’s interesting that so far all the hyped rookie guards have sucked at shooting 3’s. Malik Monk is hitting 33% and he’s the best of the bunch.

      Apparently it’s really hard to go from the college to 3 point line when you’re a rookie guard — not sure if it’s because they’re just not strong enough to shoot from NBA 3 point range yet, but if you look at all rookies (any position) age ?20, many fewer players than you might think have been able to shoot 38+% on any sort of volume (?4 3PA/36) –> not counting this season (sample too small), only 8 players in the 3 point era have met those criteria:
      Mike Miller (age 20)
      Eric Gordon (20)
      Kyrie (19)
      Bradley Beal (19)
      Daniel Gibson (20)
      Brandon Knight (20)
      Fournier (20)
      Gallinari (20)

      Re: Frank’s assist hunting, it’s quite possible (and likely) that he’s just trying to be a good teenager teammate and set guys up to score more points, as opposed to hunting assists for the purposes of stats.

    43. djphan

      i don’t know you can say dennis smith has been the worst… imo he’s shown the most… he can get to the hole and finishes… his numbers are depressed by bad ft% and 3p% which aren’t really a huge concern esp this early… his assist / to numbers are pretty good for a rookie and only overshadowed by ball… but ball has huge issues everywhere else on offense…

      smith and fox have been the best… if anything ntilikina is struggling and excelling in the same areas as ball… both tall pg’s that have varying issues with scoring in the paint…

    44. swiftandabundant

      The constant Frank nitpicking/handwringing on this board is such a good example of how damaged we are as Knicks fans. We’ve had so many bad teams the last 17 years and have had to endure so many losses, so many stupid trades and free agent signings and so many dumb controversies off the court that made this franchise look inept that now that we’re actually on the upswing and things are going relatively well for us, a lot of fans can’t give up the hand wringing and negativity. We’re all waiting for the other shoe to drop and still expecting the worst.

    45. Frank

      by all reports, Dennis Smith has been “ok” on the offensive end and a total trainwreck on the defensive end. That was always the worry with him — he’d be a stat collector a la Francis/Marbury but wouldn’t do the things that win games. For Dallas’s sake (and I actually like the Mavs and Cuban), I hope that turns itself around.

    46. Farfa

      Frank is certainly not stat padding. I was just pointing out that some of his assists are just him passing opportunities to score.

    47. Brian Cronin

      I wonder if the “shine” is rubbing off of Jack and Beasley for Hornacek? At some point won’t Mills, who gave Ron a sweet two-year deal, want him to get some decent playing time to try to justify that deal? And really, would Ron be any worse than Jack is?

      Baker isn’t being buried, he’s dealing with a nagging injury. That said, even when he was healthy they were basically burying him, but I imagine he’d be getting a crack at a rotation spot by now if he were healthy and he likely will get said crack when he heals up.

    48. JK47

      Per 36

      Assists
      Ntilikina 9.1
      Smith 6.2

      Turnovers
      Ntilikina 4.0
      Smith 4.5

      Frank also buys back some of his TO’s because he averages 2.8 steals per 36. Smith averages 1 steal per 36.

    49. Frank

      The list of rookie PGs with high turnover rates is actually pretty distinguished, and probably not a measure of future success. The names include (of the 15 who meet the criteria of age ?22, TO/36 >3.8):

      Magic Johnson (3.9 TOs/36)
      Steve Francis (4)
      Ron Harper (4.1)
      Iverson (4)
      Rod Strickland (3.9)
      Isiah Thomas (4.4)
      Spud Webb (4.7)
      Wes Matthews (4.1)
      Darrell Walker (5.3!)
      Ntilikina (4 so far)
      Dennis Smith (4.5)

      It should be noted that of the 15 names on that list, Ntilikina is the youngest (only Isiah and Dennis Smith were 20, everyone else was 21 or 22) and also has the 3rd highest assists/36 (9.1). He’s also the lowest scoring, nearly the most foul-prone, and has the lowest TS.

      Oh well, you can’t have everything.

    50. chrisk06811

      i lack stats to back this up but I feel like a baker/frank PG split would annoy the shit out of other teams’ PGs for an entire 48 minutes. I’m not sure Jack’s 5 assists in 25 minutes isn’t out of the question for Baker, but Jack’s leadership might be

    51. Frank

      At the end of the day, Frank is a breath of fresh air compared to the players we’ve had at the position for the last 20 years (Linsanity aside of course). Young, looks to pass before he shoots, has great court vision, and really tries on the defensive end. Given we have a unicorn at PF/C who needs to the get the ball in certain spots to have the best chance at success, and how historically awful we’ve been on defense for the huge majority of the last 20 years, I’d rather have Frank than Dennis Smith.

    52. JK47

      Smith turns it over a lot without generating assists. So far both guys are playing a lot like the way the scouting reports said they would play.

      I’d definitely rather have Ntilikina.

    53. GoNyGoNyGo

      @57 – The scoring will come, as will the discipline to not foul. Frazier said during the game broadcast last night that the majority of his fouls are “legal Euro” plays. He has a hand-checking habit he needs to break.

      As I’ve said several times before. It’s way too early to judge Ntilikina. He’s not a finished product but we all have to be elated that he’s starting from high ground. He’s already proven to be a defensive stopper and a fine court general. Just like KP, give him two years. When those arms grow another few inches and he gets stronger and he develops an ability to drive to the hoop, he’ll be something. I can’t wait to see that. He’s a solid building block piece.

      As for “padding his stats”, I don’t think the thought ever crossed his mind. He’s got so much on his plate already.

    54. Brian Cronin

      Yeah, Ntilikina has long been that fascinating intercept where most of us can agree that he was a really good guy to draft (although I still wish they ended up slightly higher in the draft where they could have nabbed Fox or Isaac).

    55. er

      Why is he being compared to Smith? They are nothing alike. I honestly see Frank as a Nick Batum type of 2 guard.

    56. djphan

      yes turnovers aren’t that big of a deal… i think hollinger stated that it’s actually very good to have to’s for pg’s…

      the problem with frank is that his usg is pretty low … we do have comparables and those are rondo and rubio…. but they also had much a higher ftr and rondo scored well in the paint throughout his career…

      so frank to start off is sort of unique… and we also have ball who’s profiling closer to frank than the others also…. it’ll be interesting to see how they develop…

    57. nicos

      My biggest concern with Frank is that any time he’s been pressured at all he stops in his tracks. Teams are going to figure that out and start pressuring him more consistently so it’ll be interesting to see how he adjusts.

      For 100 years I’ve listened to Clyde implore guards to reward the bigs for running the floor on a break and now its devolved into “assist hunting” and stat padding???

      Throwing a behind the back pass to a guard when you’re two feet from basket is a bad play. He had another where he was lucky to squeeze the ball into KOQ who made a nice catch in traffic when the proper play would be to shoot himself. Both of those were bad plays any way you slice it. He had a really good first half but in the second half he was equally bad despite racking up some assists. He’s young, he’s promising, he’s going to get better but his negative ws/48 isn’t a mirage- he’s not very good right now like every other rookie point guard this year. And can we please stop mentioning his age when comparing him to the other guys who came out this year- he’s about 8-9 months younger than the other guards but he’s been a full-time basketball player for the last two years. He should be ahead of those guys in terms of polish with maybe a bit more room for physical improvement.

    58. kevin5318

      Why is he being compared to Smith?

      These two will be compared the rest of their career whether we like it or not.

    59. er

      And can we please stop mentioning his age when comparing him to the other guys who came out this year- he’s about 8-9 months younger than the other guards but he’s been a full-time basketball player for the last two years. He should be ahead of those guys in terms of polish with maybe a bit more room for physical improvement.

      Eh good point

    60. lavor postell

      yes turnovers aren’t that big of a deal… i think hollinger stated that it’s actually very good to have to’s for pg’s…

      Funny. I just had a brief back and forth with Kevin Pelton on Twitter about this and he said that when he revisited that research 2 years ago it wasn’t as clear.

      My guess is that the noise is regarding what types of turnovers you’re making i.e. live ball vs. dead ball, overdribbling and driving into dead ends hunting for your own shot vs. trying to create for others, etc.

    61. nicos

      yes turnovers aren’t that big of a deal… i think hollinger stated that it’s actually very good to have to’s for pg’s…

      Funny. I just had a brief back and forth with Kevin Pelton on Twitter about this and he said that when he revisited that research 2 years ago it wasn’t as clear.

      My guess is that the noise is regarding what types of turnovers you’re making i.e. live ball vs. dead ball, overdribbling and driving into dead ends hunting for your own shot vs. trying to create for others, etc.

      My guess is that young , high turnover guy tend to be promising players that teams are willing let play through their mistakes. If your late second rounder is coughing the ball up in practice/preseason he’s not going to see the floor but if it’s your first round pick it’s a different story. Also, increasing usage as you age is going to lower turnover numbers- Westbrook commits more turnovers per 36 now than he did as a rookie but they’re masked by his dramatic increase in usage.

    62. er

      Wait i just read through the thread a little. Uh Lonzo Ball is the worst rookie no?

      Hes shooting 29% from the field for god sakes

    63. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      I agree with the critique of Frank’s assist padding. His last assist was where he got a steal was ahead of the defender going to the basket, stopped and waited to pass the ball to someone behind him in transition. Its like he’s the anti-scoring guard. He actually looks for opportunities not to score.

      Somebody should tell him to stop using Rondo as a role model.

    64. lavor postell

      Ball has been pretty bad so far and I think now he’s pressing to prove he can score to silence critics. I’m still reasonably confident he can and will be good in time.

    65. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      Prime Rondo as a Celtic was as good as it gets at the PG position

      I was referring to passing up easy shots to get an assist instead.

      I agree that Rondo was terrific before all the injuries, but I think even that version would struggle a little these days. They wants Cs to shoot well outside now.

    66. nicos

      Prime Rondo as a Celtic was as good as it gets at the PG position

      Pick any year of Chris Paul’s career and it’ll be better.

    67. Frank O.

      I think the critiques of Frank’s play are way off point.
      Listen, he’s a 19-year-old point guard.
      He SHOULD be focused on getting other guys shots.
      He SHOULD NOT be looking for his own shot.
      He should take certain shots to keep teams honest.

      But I’m delighted with his play.
      He’s shown good chemistry with his teammates, great chemistry with our Latvian leviathan.
      He works very hard on defense and is a nuisance with his wing span. I can think of only a few rookie PGs in my life that their coach didn’t start, but trusted enough to play out the entire 4th period because he’s a lock down defender.
      For years we have suffered through shoot-first, no defense, low-IQ PGs.
      This kid has the hustle and energy, the physical size, and a leaders determination to make his other guys better and reward their hustle.
      If you have a fast break and you notice a big man running hard as a trailer, you better fucking reward the big man because some day, you may go for the lay up and miss, but the big fella will be following to clean up your mess.

      I love the kid. He’s better for this team already, than almost any other point guard we’ve had for the past decade. And 9 assists per game, not starting? Geez, give me more of that.

    68. d-mar

      Pick any year of Chris Paul’s career and it’ll be better.

      I never said he was better than Chris Paul. Just that at his peak, Rondo was a terrific PG and the Celtics don’t win a title without him.

    69. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      Pick any year of Chris Paul’s career and it’ll be better.

      Nash was also better.

    70. JK47

      Lonzo has almost a 3-1 assist/turnover ratio and he is also pulling down a good number of rebounds. He has struggled miserably with his shot but he’s filling the boxscore in other ways.

    71. Frank O.

      er
      November 9, 2017 at 2:23 pm
      My only critique is that he doesn’t drive and it makes no sense. It opens the floor up even more.

      I think with his length, he’ll be very good at it. That wingspan will make his drives very difficult to stop.
      In time, he’ll do it more and more.

    72. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      From visual observation, I don’t think Frank will ever be an explosive scorer going to the basket. His first step is not fast enough and he’s not athletic enough. All that said, I don’t think Harden and Gallinari are especially quick and athletic either, but they have shown you can make quite a living going into the paint and drawing fouls if you are smart and willing to get banged around a little.

    73. nicos

      Frank is really nothing like Rondo offensively. Rondo’s best asset was his ability to penetrate- he lived in the paint despite his low usage. Right now-and before people freak out I mean right now- Frank reminds me of Chris Duhon in his reluctance to penetrate and his refusal to shoot when he does get in the paint. I in no way think he’ll wind up having a Duhon-esque career though. Rondo was way up on the assertiveness scale, Frank like Duhon is playing fairly tentatively which is exactly what you’d expect from a rookie 9 games into his career. I doubt he’ll ever turn into a Rondo type of point (heavily ball dominant despite the low usage) but I’m fine with that.

    74. Count de Pennies

      Lonzo’s conundrum is that he has already been anointed (by no less than Magic Johnson) as “the face of the Laker franchise.” As such, he does not enjoy the same latitude afforded Frank to grow gradually into his game. LA fans and media expect him to do more than just “fill up the box score in other ways” and provide intangibles. The kid got roasted here the other day after an outing in which he attempted only 2 FGs. Which, in turn, resulted in his 4 for 15 horror show against Boston last night.

      The kid really seems to be struggling with the burden of expectations that have been placed upon him. It’s not fair but it is what it is. And, oh yeah, his D truly is atrocious. That’s not helping his case, either.

    75. lavor postell

      Ball’s defense and rebounding are good and he has a close to 3:1 AST/TO ratio. Those are excellent things, so I should re-word to say his scoring has been really awful, not that he’s been awful overall.

    76. bobneptune

      He’s young, he’s promising, he’s going to get better but his negative ws/48 isn’t a mirage- he’s not very good right now like every other rookie point guard this year.

      My God 3 weeks into his NBA career every guard taken early has a negative ws/48. Maybe just maybe it takes 19-21 yr olds more than a few weeks to adjust to NBA play versus the best grown assed men in the world. Besides his poor results shooting he is doing everything else well to really well: assists, steals , deflections overall defense, +/-, wins/losses, composure in the 4th quarter, getting his teammates involved, etc.

      Which guard in the draft is anyone saying, “FFS…. I really wish we had that guy?”

    77. djphan

      @lavor – there’s going to be a lot of noise as you stated …. so i don’t doubt what pelton found… the main point is that turnovers aren’t that big of a deal….

    78. Stratomatic says "NY basketball is back"

      Why does everything have to turn into something it’s not?

      Rondo was notorious for not taking uncontested layups on the break and instead handing the ball off to someone else just so he could get an assist. The discussion was about Frank taking an assist when he could have scored. So that simple tongue in cheek comparison to Rondo is warranted. We don’t need to have an in depth analysis of Rondo’s game vs. Frank’s game. We are 5 years away from knowing what Frank’s game is.

    79. Frank

      And can we please stop mentioning his age when comparing him to the other guys who came out this year- he’s about 8-9 months younger than the other guards but he’s been a full-time basketball player for the last two years. He should be ahead of those guys in terms of polish with maybe a bit more room for physical improvement.

      pretty much every FO in the NBA disagrees with you. They put great emphasis on guys who are young for their class, guys who are old for their class, etc.

      re: Frank being a full-time basketball player — you don’t think Lonzo Ball or Deaaron Fox or Malik Monk etc. were full-time training? With better facilities and likely better skills coaching given the resources available? Remember how happy Porzingis was just to hear that in the US you can get into a gym whenever you want? And KP was playing in the ACB in Spain, not a 2nd-level French league.

    80. nicos

      Frank being a full-time basketball player — you don’t think Lonzo Ball or Deaaron Fox or Malik Monk etc. were full-time training? With better facilities and likely better skills coaching given the resources available? Remember how happy Porzingis was just to hear that in the US you can get into a gym whenever you want? And KP was playing in the ACB in Spain, not a 2nd-level French league.

      I think two years full time in the French league and training with the national team is better than one year of AAU ball (which I think is glorified pick-up basketball and instills a lot of bad habits) during high school and one of college ball. Physically he’s got more room for improvement but in terms of how to properly play the game I think he’s had better preparation. And remember that Smith Jr. didn’t even play his senior year of high school.

    81. Ingmarrrr

      What I absolutely love about Frank is that I can see his mind working, sorting out the plays and only then deciding what to do. It’s typical modus operandi for a guy who is very good at learning, and it already works really well for him with his defense and passing.

      When penetrating he’s still figuring out his spots,and isn’t sure yet where he can go and when and what will the consequences be. He’s looks to me like the kind of guy who needs to see 3 steps ahead before making a move, or he won’t make it. Once he computes these 3-4 steps in his head and see the game even more clearly than he already does, he’ll get into the paint and either pass or score like the best of them.

    82. er

      re: Frank being a full-time basketball player — you don’t think Lonzo Ball or Deaaron Fox or Malik Monk etc. were full-time training? With better facilities and likely better skills coaching given the resources available? Remember how happy Porzingis was just to hear that in the US you can get into a gym whenever you want? And KP was playing in the ACB in Spain, not a 2nd-level French league.

      Yeah, not sure what you mean. Those guys had school obligations for at least the fall/winter months. Also College has restrictions on practice and facility use that Pros do not. Im not saying one was better or worse, its just that they are on just about equal footing in terms of prep for the NBA

    83. Ntilakilla

      I think two years full time in the French league and training with the national team is better than one year of AAU ball (which I think is glorified pick-up basketball and instills a lot of bad habits) during high school and one of college ball.

      Better training for basketball skills, but also less game experience – which also explains his hesitation and lack of assertiveness compared to his North American compeers. In the Euroleague, if you make a mistake as a youngster during a game they bench you. In the AAU they gear entire offenses around a guard’s skills and allow them major leeway to make mistakes in the process of carrying their team.

      Also, another factor to consider is the difference in basketballs. There was a WSJ article during KPs rookie season that broke down the problem that Euros have shooting 3 pointers relative to the rest of their careers. Even some of the best career 3 point shooters from over there like Calderon their first few seasons. It’s also something to consider.

    84. Ntilakilla

      When penetrating he’s still figuring out his spots,and isn’t sure yet where he can go and when and what will the consequences be. He’s looks to me like the kind of guy who needs to see 3 steps ahead before making a move, or he won’t make it. Once he computes these 3-4 steps in his head and see the game even more clearly than he already does, he’ll get into the paint and either pass or score like the best of them.

      Agree 100 percent. Frank is a very deliberate player, a characteristic which is accentuated by the reality of his young age. I think this feature of his game is what makes him so anomalous and enigmatic to many NBA basketball fans in an era where guards like Derrick Rose and Russell Westbrook can win MVPs for dribbling to the basket like chickens with their heads cut off and then improvising what will happen next. Right now, Ntilikina is in a phase of his game where he is processing what he can and can’t reliably do on an NBA court. And its a process of his maturation that is only made harder by the fact that he missed Summer League, missed most of training camp, including team practices during that time, and then virtually started his season 2 games into the NBA regular season.

    85. nicos

      Better training for basketball skills, but also less game experience – which also explains his hesitation and lack of assertiveness compared to his North American compeers. In the Euroleague, if you make a mistake as a youngster during a game they bench you. In the AAU they gear entire offenses around your skills and allow major leeway to make mistakes in the process of carrying your team.

      It’ll be interesting to see how things play out. I think you need a certain level of assertiveness to be great and that AAU style of play certainly encourages that but at the expense of team play. So which is better- learning the team game first and then gradually stepping up usage/individual play or honing your individual game and then learning to fit it into a team concept? I love that Frank plays under control but get frustrated that he’s seems risk averse (at least in the half court). It’s confusing!

    86. Ntilakilla

      Those guys had school obligations for at least the fall/winter months.

      LOL @ “school obligations.” Here is what Ben Simmons said about his “school obligations” when he admitted in a documentary (and Twitter as well) that he didn’t even attend classes during his one season in LSU.

      “Well, I can’t get a degree in two semesters, so what’s the point?”

      Frank probably attended more educational classes than these 1 and done kids did.

    87. Brian Cronin

      Rashad McCants had the best bit about how he actually made the Dean’s List one year without attending any classes!

    88. Ntilakilla

      As an educator, that is dispiriting to read, but not really surprising.

      It’s the worst kept secret in the NCAA none of its defenders wants to talk about. They say that college basketball programs shouldn’t pay their players because they are “student-athletes” who are receiving an education. But many of these players, especially the star 1 and dones, aren’t even attending their college classes and have their assignments either completed for them by paid tutors or just rubber stamped by professors who are pressured by their departments to overlook incompletes.

    89. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      As an educator, that is dispiriting to read, but not really surprising.

      Why should it be dispiriting? It’s like being angry that Sunny Delight isn’t actually orange juice. Many student-athletes are not students, despite the name.

      If anything, we should be upset that the NCAA and its universities continue to exploit young people for profit, especially in college football, where many of those young men will suffer CTE for no gain besides a few years of being a minor celebrity on campus.

    90. er

      LOL @ “school obligations.” Here is what Ben Simmons said about his “school obligations” when he admitted in a documentary (and Twitter as well) that he didn’t even attend classes during his one season in LSU.

      That’s not every school and that wasn’t really my point. College teams still have shit like mandatory study halls and all types of things they have to do that have nothing to do with basketball. As a pro you don’t have these things. You can only have practice for a certain amount of time etc. I think Euro teams actually practice way more than NBA teams. This is what I am talking about. I know you are on your Frank defense tour and that’s cool. But hes not some babe that was just born trying to figure out how to walk vs the other guys having a huge advantage. Its just a false narrative. You were touting how they made the championship. That’s plenty of practice with grown men.

    91. Ntilakilla

      That’s not every school and that wasn’t really my point. College teams still have shit like mandatory study halls and all types of things they have to do that have nothing to do with basketball.

      So they miss classes, but will attend study hall? You’re being really naive if you don’t think the top 1 and done guards in this class who comparably around Ntilikina’s same age like Lonzo Ball, De’Aaron Fox (especially at Kentucky), Dennis Smith, or Markelle Fultz, etc. missed their classes to train and attend practices.

    92. Cock Jowles, #1 All-Rookie Benchwarmer

      Also coaches cant run illegal practices, that’s a violation.

      No. It is a violation to run illegal practices. Coaches can run illegal practices.

      Ask Rick Pitino if he can bribe prospective players. He’ll say “no,” but we know better than that.

    93. er

      No. It is a violation to run illegal practices. Coaches can run illegal practices.

      Ask Rick Pitino if he can bribe prospective players. He’ll say “no,” but we know better than that

      Eh true.

    94. nicos

      I didn’t mean to suggest that Fox, Smith, Ball, et al, weren’t getting court time just that playing in a professional league for two years should have (and appears to have had) made up for a slight difference in age in terms of NBA readiness. I do think some of his tentativeness is due to getting used to the speed of the game- something the other rookies are probably more used to. I just don’t see that extra eight month difference being that much of an advantage given that he’s spent so much time around professional players already. Maybe he does have another meaningful amount of athletic development to come given the age difference- I’ll certainly be thrilled if that’s the case.

    95. ClashFan

      @102

      Why should it be dispiriting? It’s like being angry that Sunny Delight isn’t actually orange juice. Many student-athletes are not students, despite the name.

      If anything, we should be upset that the NCAA and its universities continue to exploit young people for profit, especially in college football, where many of those young men will suffer CTE for no gain besides a few years of being a minor celebrity on campus.

      It’s dispiriting to me b/c I believe in the power of education. So since you’re getting a free year of education why not go to class? I think just about anyone that goes to college knows that some student athletes don’t do anything academically.

      I don’t agree that it is an either or situation. I also find the NCAA endlessly dispiriting for their exploitation of young athletes. The whole system stinks, and it starts well before college.

    96. Ntilakilla

      Ha you are so sure aren’t you.

      Oh, I am sure. I am just not sure you are being serious. Then I remembered how absurd you can be sometimes.

      LOL. School obligations for study hall. Who knew that this was what was keeping college 1 and dones from achieving their maximum basketball potential?

    97. Ntilakilla

      I just don’t see that extra eight month difference being that much of an advantage given that he’s spent so much time around professional players already.

      Eight months of practice, training, and playing experience is huge at the developmental level in maturing a young player’s ability to improvise in games during that formative stage between High School and the NBA. Hell, a college basketball season lasts around 8 months, beginning in September and ending in April.

      Let’s see if Frank’s game will have matured a lot by 8 months if he gets regular playing time. Then we will get our answer.

    98. nicos

      Eight months of practice, training, and playing experience is huge at the developmental level in maturing a young player’s ability to improvise in games during that formative stage between High School and the NBA. Hell, a college basketball season lasts around 8 months, beginning in September and ending in April.

      And being around professional players while practicing, training, and playing (even if they’re not all NBA-caliber athletically) is a huge advantage as well. Do you really think a high school practice bears any resemblance to one run by a French league team let alone the French National team? This guy has spent two years playing with professionals as you’ve pointed out a million times- he shouldn’t behind the curve like a typical guy younger than his class. Like I said, he may have more room to make a physical jump because of his age but he should be at least as well prepared (and probably more so) than most Freshman coming out of college.

    99. er

      LOL. School obligations for study hall. Who knew that this was what was keeping college 1 and dones from achieving their maximum basketball potential?

      See this is why you are annoying.

      The whole point is that Frank isn’t at some disadvantage. He’s just about the same as the others. His season was faaar longer. The college season ran from (November to March) vs France (September to June) He went back to play after the draft remember.

      Hes in the same boat as them and should be looked at the same way. Just like he can get better , so can the others. That’s all im saying.

      Right, what nicos said.

    100. Ntilakilla

      Do you really think a high school practice bears any resemblance to one run by a French league team let alone the French National team?

      Of course not, but this is beside my point: which is that what you practice matters as much, if not more, than who you practice it with. Frank’s IQ isn’t what’s in question here. We know he has an advanced understanding of the game for his age. The critique which you and others have made is that he isn’t assertive enough in games. My point is that the reason he isn’t assertive in such games is that he’s never had an opportunity to run an offense as a primary ball-handler with the same leeway to make mistakes as many of his North American compeers from the same class. Playing with better and more experienced competition when you are expected to fill in as an offensive role player during games isn’t going to prepare you for the role of a lead point guard. That takes in-game trial and error of being able to make plays while learning from mistakes.

      Now Frank will have an entire NBA season to be that guy more and more as the season progresses. We’ll see if those extra months will have enhanced his development. I believe it will. But the question will be by how much.

    101. Ntilakilla

      The whole point is that Frank isn’t at some disadvantage.

      The point is that you have no clue what you’re arguing about, er, and therefore have little authority to determine what advantages North American players have versus European players of the same age. You actually presented “school obligations” as some kind of obstacle to college basketball development when its common, documented knowledge these kids don’t do a lick of scholastic work in the 10 months they are college “students”. They don’t attend classes, they don’t study, and they don’t spend a minute of the day worrying about their academic requirements because their asses are out the door after two semesters.

      Don’t believe me? Go and watch Ben Simmons explain it to you in One & Done.

    102. er

      See, that’s where you are wrong. School Obligations meaning, there are times where they could not have organized practice. Teammates have class etc. that is factual, stop trying to twist it. I’m not arguing. I laid out facts as did nicos.

      But of course I have no clue.

    103. TheOakmanCometh

      My understanding is that star college athletes are not only not forced to go to class, they’re actually discouraged from doing so. Coaches don’t give a damn whether a kid attends his European History class. They want the kid in the gym or the weight room, studying the playbook and thinking about their sport. They don’t want the kid distracted by class or homework.

      So although most of these kids probably don’t want to go to class anyway, the system isn’t helping. It’s not that they’re all lazy or don’t value education.

    104. geo

      It’s like being angry that Sunny Delight isn’t actually orange juice.

      what???

      wait a minute now – when the hell did this happen…oh lord, the world is going to shit…

    105. nicos

      Of course not, but this is beside my point: which is that what you practice matters as much, if not more, than who you practice it with. Frank’s IQ isn’t what’s in question here. We know he has an advanced understanding of the game for his age. The critique which you and others have made is that he isn’t assertive enough in games. My point is that the reason he isn’t assertive in such games is that he’s never had an opportunity to run an offense as a primary ball-handler with the same leeway to make mistakes as many of his North American compeers from the same class. Playing with better and more experienced competition when you are expected to fill in as an offensive role player during games isn’t going to prepare you for the role of a lead point guard. That takes in-game trial and error of being able to make plays while learning from mistakes.

      Point taken and I think I admitted as much earlier. I guess my response is that a lot of the stuff that seems really impressive for such a young guard- like waiting for McDermott to come off of a staggered screen rather than getting antsy and chucking up a bad shot- is because he’s practiced and played for two years in a system that is geared towards doing exactly that – running plays- rather than playing a lot of AAU iso-ball. And yes, I’d agree that some of his reluctance to drive when he has an open lane is a product of that same kind of training and not a sure-fire sign that he’s unable to do so. I just think he’s had certain advantages that other guys in his draft class haven’t had. Of course he wouldn’t have gotten that experience unless he had real talent- there aren’t a whole lot of 18 year olds good enough to earn actual minutes on any professional team- French or elsewhere.

    106. geo

      hold up – looking over the ingredients of Sunny D (tangy original):
      Contains
      WATER, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP AND 2% OR LESS OF EACH OF THE FOLLOWING: CONCENTRATED JUICES (ORANGE, TANGERINE, APPLE, LIME, GRAPEFRUIT, PEAR), CITRIC ACID, ASCORBIC ACID (VITAMIN C), THIAMIN HYDROCHLORIDE (VITAMIN B1), NATURAL FLAVORS, MODIFIED CORNSTARCH, CANOLA OIL, SODIUM CITRATE, CELLULOSE GUM, SUCRALOSE, ACESULFAME POTASSIUM, NEOTAME, SODIUM HEXAMETAPHOSPHATE, POTASSIUM SORBATE TO PROTECT FLAVOR, YELLOW #5, YELLOW #6.

      there is in fact some concentrated orange juice in there…lot of other stuff too…but, there is some concentrated orange juice in there…

      think i’ll continue to believe in sunny d, that and the fact that michael beasely really does deserve a roster spot…

    107. ptmilo

      people are understandably worried about OKC, but I think I’d be more concerned about Minny. Sure they’re 7-4, but they won two coin flips vs Okc and their expected record is 5-6. They are the 27th defense and KAT is just not improving at all on that end. For some reason I don’t really get Butler has been highly meh.

    108. ptmilo

      And sure the lottery guards have bad numbers, some of Lonzo’s numbers are gruesome, but i don’t think his start has been discouraging. I’m as sure as I can be he will at least be a really good NBA player, it’s jusy a matter of how much he can improve the stuff he totally sucks at. He is not as bad a defender as people are making him out to be. Fox also seems close to a sure thing to be at least really good and Frank has nothing on him in terms of makeup. These guys are young as can be and trying to run the show on weak teams.

    109. Bruno Almeida

      The Butler situation is really weird. He’s been saying he doesn’t care about his numbers and he wants to do what gets wins for his team, and that that means deferring to Wiggins and KAT. The issue is that he’s a far superior player to Wiggins and deferring to him is actually more likely to lead to losses than wins.

      I admire the guy for trying to adapt to playing winning basketball and focusing on what the team needs, but on this case it seems really obvious that the team needs him to be featured more than Wiggins, but pointzz + perceived potential + big contract wins I guess.

    110. DRed

      I think someone here said that KAT was the new model Amare and I think that’s pretty spot on. It doesn’t seem like he can play defense the way you’d assume a big man with his tremendous athleticism could.

    111. GoNyGoNyGo

      A few years back I remember reading somewhere that Townes would be better at the start of his career but that KP would eventually overtake him.

      About college vs. Europe preparation for the NBA, I think that the big differentiation between the two is the life. These kids are playing with men in a pro league. Ntilikina was 16 playing with 30-year olds. That experience alone prepares a player mentally in a different way.

    112. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      KP is a great rim protector but he’s going to be the reason teams have a high eFG% against us if he stays at the 4 full time. KP refuses to close out on shooters and that’s not a good sign.

    113. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      From visual observation, I don’t think Frank will ever be an explosive scorer going to the basket. His first step is not fast enough and he’s not athletic enough. All that said, I don’t think Harden and Gallinari are especially quick and athletic either, but they have shown you can make quite a living going into the paint and drawing fouls if you are smart and willing to get banged around a little.

      I am not so sure this is true. It’s assumed that when players mature physically they get stronger, but don’t get quicker or more explosive. But when I watch Porzingis this season, I see someone who seems quicker than last year. It doesn’t seem like a skill improvement, just more physical capability. So maybe Ntilikina will get somewhat quicker as his body matures. I’m not sure that will make him “explosive”, and actually I doubt he will ever match some other “explosive” players. But it could still help a lot when he goes into the paint.

    114. kevin5318

      I don’t think Franks burst is as much as a problem as his handle which can be improved. He’s been looking quicker the last few games which may be due to him being fully recovered frm his ankle/knee issues.

    115. GoNyGoNyGo

      @128 – I don’t look at things that way. KP is a unicorn. He plays a stretch-4 on offense but he’s much more, a 7’3″ sharpshooter that can slam an ally-oop, drive the lane. But he isn’t dominant in the post yet. He’s impossible for a 6’8″ PF to stop but a big-body like Mosgov or Howard will give him trouble. On defense, he does what a center does. He leads the team in blocks and defends the rim. He’s also athletic enough to chase other sharp-shooters around the court. And if he just raises his hands, a perimeter shooter won’t have a clean shot.

      BTW, that’s why Kanter is such a good fit with KP on the floor. He’s a poor rim defender but a terrific rebounder, but on offense, Kanter is really great in the post. He has super foot-work and a number of reliable moves.

      I don’t know if Mills and Perry thought about that when they made the trade, but it’s turned out to be a stroke of genius.

    116. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      I’m just talking about KP’s physical quickness when I watch. He seems quicker to me. It could be just he has more stamina this year, I don’t know. You could be right about Ntilikina’s injury having affected him at the beginning of the season.

      And I agree, Kanter and KP are a great combination. Very few teams have the personnel to defend both of them well when they are on the floor together.

    117. Bruno Almeida

      @129

      I’m obviously not a medic, but there are certainly players who get quicker more agile over time with proper training. Physical training is not only about making someone stronger as it can also be fine tuned to target specific body parts / muscles to improve in different ways.

      I agree that he’ll probably never be someone who explodes to the rim like a prime Derrick Rose did, but he’s recovering from nagging injuries and pretty much every euro that comes over shows a difference in their conditioning / body shape after a while in the NBA. The biggest immediate task for him should be to improve his handle, which definitely needs quite a lot of work (both literallly and also in terms of confidence etc), and also focus on consistency while shooting, since he has good form already.

    118. ess-dog

      Amazing how good Tatum has been. Sure, he fell into a great situation, but he’s made the most of it. And Tyreke Evans?? Can he keep that up?

    119. Ntilakilla

      According to data from Second Spectrum, Carmelo Anthony is averaging 6.5 more passes per 100 possessions this season with the Thunder than he did last season with the Knicks.

      Ben Alamar, ESPN Stats & Info

    120. Ntilakilla

      Former Knicks president Phil Jackson had a French vision last summer with point guard George Hill in the middle of it.

      According to an NBA source, if Jackson wasn’t ousted, Hill would now be the mentor for rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina. Not Jarrett Jack. Not Ramon Sessions.

      According to the source, Jackson envisioned Hill being the type of cerebral guard to master the triangle offense and serve as a solid example for Ntilikina, whom the Zen Master tabbed eighth in the draft in June.

    121. Brian Cronin

      I certainly buy “envisioned.” Not so much “if Jackson wasn’t ousted, Hill would now be the mentor for rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina.” (emphasis mine)

      The Knicks had to move things around just to free up $16.5 million for THJ’s salary this year, I don’t see them getting $19 million for Hill and I don’t see Hill taking a pay cut to sign here (his contract with Sacto is actually frontloaded – he is making $20 million this season).

      I surely do believe that it would have been something that Jackson would have wanted, though.

    122. Ntilakilla

      I don’t buy it either, Brian. Phil was very keen on resigning Rose. We know this because “Charlie Rosen” wrote as much in his parting article the past summer. As you note, Hill may have been a guy Phil was looking at but I doubt that he would’ve been able to sign him. Rose would have been the most likely point guard Phil signed this past offseason.

    123. Ntilakilla

      OKC loses again. Man, they have problems. They aren’t as talented as the Lebron Heat to be digging a hole this early in the season and the Western Conference isn’t as weak as the East. If a team gets behind fast they will have a lot of catching up to do to compete with the top 8 teams over there. They’re 12th now out of the 15 teams and I am not convinced they’re better than who’s ahead of them.

    124. nicos

      Frank’s already a better playmaker than Hill. I don’t know if he’ll ever shoot it as well though.

    125. er

      OKC loses again. Man, they have problems. They aren’t as talented as the Lebron Heat to be digging a hole this early in the season and the Western Conference isn’t as weak as the East. If a team gets behind fast they will have a lot of catching up to do to compete with the top 8 teams over there. They’re 12th now out of the 15 teams and I am not convinced they’re better than who’s ahead of them.

      Lol @ this whole post.
      Well the coach has to make adjustments. And they will probably play better at home no? And Westbrook has to be better right? He’s been quietly awful all year.

      They have also played at least 7 road games. Idk we will see

    126. Ntilakilla

      LOL. Er is defending his new favorite team, scapegoating the coach. Sounds familiar. Next will be George and Westbrook.

    127. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      OKC is definitely overrated but Billy Donovan is an awful coach. Like worse than playoff D’Antoni awful. At least Hornacek had a system for Rose/Melo/KP that the former two refused to run. Donovan has no system.

    128. lavor postell

      At some point it’s not the damn coach. OKC played the exact same way under Donovan with Russ running point as they did under Brooks (who I think this criticism is more applicable too).

      Donovan’s Florida teams were known for their system of play which involved a lot of ball and player movement. In fact, this was a major reason he was hired to replace Brooks. This is definitely not how he wants to play.

      Melo has played one way his entire life, which was effective when he could put pressure on the defense and attack the rim, but not so much now. PG has been playing ISO chuckball for a good few years now. None of these guys cut or move well off the ball. There is natural stagnation anytime all 3 are on the floor together.

      Organizationally I think OKC has just given in to Westbrook’s whims and fancies across the board.

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