Knicks Morning News (2017.11.10)

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: James Harden Beats LeBron James While Equaling Michael Jordan
    (Friday, November 10, 2017 10:00:29 AM)

    In the Rockets’ win over the Cavaliers, Harden became the first player since Jordan in 1989 to have at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, 10 assists and 5 steals in a game.

  • [NYTimes] At the Pistons’ New Home, Empty Seats and Hockey Statues
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:00:26 AM)

    The opening of Detroit’s Little Caesars Arena has been followed by a succession of not-so-enormous basketball crowds.

  • [NY Newsday] What happens with Ramon Sessions after Joakim Noah’s suspension ends?
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:42:29 PM)

    Ramon Sessions jumped out of his seat and was on his way to the scorer’s table to enter Wednesday night’s loss to the Magic, but Jeff Hornacek changed his mind. The veteran point guard went back to his familiar spot on the bench.

  • [SNY Knicks] Daily News Live: Bondy gives a Knicks update
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 8:06:36 PM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Sessions, who could be roster casualty for Noah, discusses demotion
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 12:30:12 PM)

    Knicks PG Ramon Sessions, who did not play on Wednesday night, has barely played since starting the first three games of the season — a role that was then given to Jarrett Jack.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis-less Knicks couldn’t muster another comeback
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 1:00:50 PM)

    With Kristaps Porzingis on the bench with a bad elbow and ankle Wednesday night, the Knicks couldn’t muster a win on the road against the Magic.

  • [SNY Knicks] Scott Perry must decide how to make room for Noah by Monday
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 10:19:21 AM)

    Knicks GM Scott Perry has a big decision to make by Monday as C Joakim Noah returns from his 20-game suspension, and a roster spot must be made for him.

  • [NYDN] Porzingis tells News why this season feels different for Knicks
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:34:36 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis, the smartest guy in the room, saw last season’s downfall coming before anyone else did.

  • [NYDN] Sessions could be on way out as he falls out of Knicks rotation
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 9:33:59 PM)

    There was a moment in Wednesday’s loss to the Magic when Ramon Sessions thought he would finally play again.

  • [NYPost] Knicks set to face Phil Jackson’s preferred free-agent splash
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 3:08:45 PM)

    Former Knicks president Phil Jackson had a French vision last summer with point guard George Hill in the middle of it. According to an NBA source, if Jackson wasn’t ousted, Hill would now be the mentor for rookie point guard Frank Ntilikina. Not Jarrett Jack. Not Ramon Sessions. According to the source, Jackson envisioned Hill…

  • [NYPost] The Knicks’ first point guard hope could be first to go
    (Thursday, November 09, 2017 6:23:55 AM)

    ORLANDO, Fla. — In the second quarter Wednesday at Amway Center, Jeff Hornacek motioned to the bench. Point guard Ramon Sessions popped up, started taking off his warm-up top. It was a false alarm. A Knicks assistant told him to sit back down. Either Sessions misread Hornacek’s intentions or, as the veteran said, “Coach changed…

  • 80 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.11.10)”

    kevin, that video is great. You can’t fault Kanter’s effort of defensive IQ in those sequences.

    LOL. Er is defending his new favorite team, scapegoating the coach. Sounds familiar. Next will be George and Westbrook.

    See this is what I don’t get. You and your folks bring up OKC every day. Not me. You come here and just say shit. I give counter points and now its “my new favorite team” and im scapegoating, yada yada. I watched probably half of their games, yes because I liked Melo when he was here, and want to see his team do well same as all of the Gallo/Lin fans and whoever else watched him on Denver/Houston etc. Yet, I don’t come post here everyday about it.

    In watching when I did, Donovan has not been good, Patterson has not been good, Westbrook has not been good, Melo has not been good and PG has not been good. They have also played 7 games on the road.

    I haven’t said anything crazy or fanboyish or whatever. Yet you come here everyday and talk about Melo or gloat when they lose. That shit is mad corny.

    Melo actually has the highest ws/48 of the “OK3” Westbrook is shooting sub 60% from the line and has a sub 50 Ts% and turns the ball over like a druken sailor and plays very recklessly very unlike the Knick game. If you want to talk about the Thunder then fine we can talk about them. Its just corny as fuck that anytime I say something its me defending or whatever. Im not, just trying to make an analysis. You are clearly obsessed. And that’s fine, and I will go back to my old policy of not responding to you because you are just a corny motherfucka.

    Posting this here from the from last thread……..

    OKC is definitely overrated but Billy Donovan is an awful coach. Like worse than playoff D’Antoni awful. At least Hornacek had a system for Rose/Melo/KP that the former two refused to run. Donovan has no system.

    At some point it’s not the damn coach. OKC played the exact same way under Donovan with Russ running point as they did under Brooks (who I think this criticism is more applicable too).

    Donovan’s Florida teams were known for their system of play which involved a lot of ball and player movement. In fact, this was a major reason he was hired to replace Brooks. This is definitely not how he wants to play.

    Melo has played one way his entire life, which was effective when he could put pressure on the defense and attack the rim, but not so much now. PG has been playing ISO chuckball for a good few years now. None of these guys cut or move well off the ball. There is natural stagnation anytime all 3 are on the floor together.

    Organizationally I think OKC has just given in to Westbrook’s whims and fancies across the board.

    Yeah I agree with this post mostly. My issues with Donavan has been his rotations, he needs to stop Playing Roberson with the big 3. The spacing is awful.

    Melo is shooting a lot more threes which I think helps, I think George and Russ need to do a better job of creating.

    Doesn’t Russ lead the league in assists per game?

    But yeah they could use an improved McBuckets rn.

    Food for thought: if we end up picking in the teens Mikal Bridges from Nova would be a great get. Exactly what we need on the wing.

    Man, effing Danny Ainge. Obviously he picked the best player in the draft at 3. Of course.

    Jayson Tatum has really caught me by surprise so far. Markannen too but Tatum has been outstanding. Not going to shoot 50% from three all year but pretty great debut so far.

    Just a quick point about Frank vs other rookie pgs. A lot has been made about his time playing and practicing with grown men I the French professional league, but he was not tasked with being a leading scorer/main ball handler on those teams (excluding the u18). He was tasked with fitting within the system and getting the ball to their stars. In that regard Frank is better prepared to fit into a system of play, and he has shown that.

    Compare that to rookies from the states. All of these top pgs in the draft (with the exception of Monk) have been ball dominant point guards for their entire amateur basketball careers. Players like DSJr and Ball have more practice and experience doing what’s being asked of them than Frank.

    In that respect it’s hard to gauge their progress. With the exception of maybe Doncic, most of these euro kids come in having not been focal points on their respective squads. KP and Billy certainly weren’t, at least not in the film I watched of them from their Spanish Pro League days. Conversely, while the college kids have the experience as the big dogs on their teams they don’t have the same level of competition that Euros face.

    I guess the point I’m trying to make is that, for now, the comparisons we should be making for Frank are how he looks today vs how he looked yesterday. After he and the other rookies spend more time in the same league it’ll be more fair to contrast their production levels while factoring in their nba experience.

    That’s a pretty good point nyfaithful, it’s something really impactful in the beginning of those player’s careers, in both good and bad ways.

    While Frank is more apt at fitting into a system right away, he’ll struggle more to adjust to a more featured role where he’s expected to score and lead a team; the AAU / one and done prospects will have bigger issues with some fundamentals and fitting into a team environment, but will be better early on making aggressive plays and individual moves.
    It’s a trade off that isn’t really clear which side is better or more suitable as a prospect, it depends so much on context and what will happen from now on.

    OKC unloaded all their suspect defenders and added George and Patterson. The thought was they’d become a top 5 defense. So far things are going as expected. The defense has improved.

    The thought was that Westbrook had very little help on offense last year. Adding Melo and George (who both have 3 point range), should help his shot selection and efficiency somewhat. Along the same line, neither George or Melo played with a play maker as good as Westbrook last year. So their efficiency should rise because both would get a slightly higher percentage of “assisted” shot attempts which tend to be high efficiency shots.

    So far none of that is working as expected.

    So the question becomes is it because they aren’t used to playing with each other yet (like the Heat when they first got together) or because the theory was flawed?

    I think it’s too early to tell.

    Some one else said this, but it’s true.
    We won’t know who Franky N is for about three years.
    But he’s a plus defender already from what I have seen, and after more than a decade of shitty defense, I’m quite pleased.

    Also, the loss to Orlando without the Latvian was pretty interesting. They played a pretty good team pretty toughly. They hung in, found ways to stay in the game and battled throughout.
    I’ll take that effort.

    Yeah, the season is still so young.

    Well, the media has Sessions a goner next week, fwiw.

    I think with
    1. Melo taking 19.3 shots/36 and shooting 42% (28% usage)
    2. George taking 17.5 shots/36 and shooting 42% (25% usage)
    3. Westbrook taking 18.7 shots/36 and making 41% (31% usage)
    you’re going to lose a lot of games.
    All three are 1 to 3 percentage points of their career shooting average.

    Essentially it’s a team of volume scorers.
    They’re not going to be great.

    I’d like to see the Knicks occasionally roll out a lineup Noah, KP, Lance, Lee, and Frank. That team would probably have trouble scoring unless Frank loosens up. So maybe substituting O’Quinn for Noah or THJ for Lee would help. But either way, I’d like to see what a “defense first” lineup does.

    I haven’t watched OKC a ton this year so I won’t say too much, but in defense of Melo I do think it’s a little unfair that his play this year is going to be used by a lot of his detractors (whom I’ve frequently been among) as a referendum on his entire career. He really looked last year like he had lost a step (more than one if we’re being honest), and from the bits and pieces that I have seen this year it doesn’t look like that step has come back. That isn’t exactly surprising for a 33 year old with a lot of mileage, in fact it certainly should have been the default assumption. I don’t think that necessarily reflects too much on whether Melo could have made it work on a team with other stars when he was in his prime. I just don’t think he’s that level of player anymore regardless of who his teammates are.

    I’m not buying that the Kanter is playing good enough defense narrative.

    1. He’s obviously scoring very efficiently on good usage

    2. He’s obviously rebounding really well

    So he’s clearly adding value in 2 areas. Yet just like in other years, with other teams, and with other players, his on/off numbers aren’t that good. Obviously there are sample size issues and it depends who else you are playing with. But still, I think it hints that teams are taking advantage of something that may not be obvious in the stats or a few minutes of film.


    He’s lost a step but he also gives crap effort on D

    Gets beat on a backcut by Fox and then doesn’t contest at the rim even though he’s in position. This is at the very end of the game too.


    I saw a play yesterday where Milsap blew by him like he was nailed to the floor. It’s one thing if younger smaller guys are beating you, but Milsap is a big guy, not known lightning speed, and up there in age also. I also agree he doesn’t put out consistent effort. If he’s anywhere near the paint and someone beats their man in the perimeter, he makes almost no effort to help at all. He just watches the guy go to the basket and score. That’s the stuff that’s not in the boxscore but has a huge impact on the game.

    Why is Berman talking about deals that Phil would have made instead of signing Hardaway?

    Everyone knows that Hill would have been a terrific addition to the Knicks as both a player and mentor for Frank, but we have no evidence that Phil was actually considering that move before he got fired, that Hill would have agreed to come to NY, or that the contract would have been more reasonable than the one he signed with Sacramento (which was an overpay just like Hardaway).

    He’s lost a step but he also gives crap effort on D

    I don’t think his loss of a step and poor defense are really separate issues. His effort on that end has always been middling, a loss of foot speed compounds his problems on that end. A big part of my issue with his play last year was the decline of his defense from just generally mediocre (which is quite common among guys asked to carry big offensive loads) to outright atrocious.

    The play you’re spotlighting is kind of a perfect example. That isn’t what I would call not giving effort. In fact he tries to get way out to to contest the passing lane and then after he gets viciously back cut he doesn’t quit on the play. He actually works pretty hard to get all the way back into position at the rim. What I see is a guy with bad defensive instincts (his inclination has always been to try to make the hero defensive play rather than just play solid – for example his signature defensive play to me is those wild swipes he would take to try to make steals/blocks in transition) whose problem is compounded by the fact that he now has the turning radius of an 18-wheeler while Fox is a sports car. Then although he recovers all the way to the rim he’s not quite quick enough to get there in time to stop the pass nor athletic enough around the cup to actually contest the shot.

    We were more likely to sign Rose than Hill.

    I don’t believe ANYTHING reported by Berman, Isola, or any of the rest of them. Phil is an eccentric and stubborn guy, but he said enough publicly about Rose for me to think he was gone. I have no idea who he would have picked up for PG, but I’m sure he wouldn’t have used the Rose cap space on Hardaway. He probably would have overpaid for someone else. Maybe it would have been Hill because he was the perfect fit. Maybe Hill would have said yes given he said yes to the same role on a worse organization like the Kings. But then a lot of us would be complaining that he gave 56 million to a 31 year old PG for 3 years. There’s just no evidence any of that is true and the media does not count. It’s also over.

    I think Frank is closer to being ready to start than we thought anyway. If not the second half of this year, definitely next year.

    (Just a note: Mudiay looked horrible on offense his first 2 years and he’s starting to break out. I think Frank can be better than Mudiay. It takes time)

    Then although he recovers all the way to the rim he’s not quite quick enough to get there in time to stop the pass nor athletic enough around the cup to actually contest the shot.

    I see him in position to contest uber athlete Z-Bo and simply not jumping.


    This is the Melo special we’ve seen for years that I clipped from last night

    I kinda laugh when I see that because it’s just a complete lack of awareness. You can excuse this, but how many times have we seen this? When he was a more dynamic offensive player it was easier to forgive, but now in his decline phase gifting 2 points away on a regular basis is tough.

    Do you remember what quarter that Millsap drive was on?

    Do you remember what quarter that Millsap drive was on?

    It must have been the first half because I was nodding off and eventually went to bed before the game ended. I don’t remember the exact time.

    I think the game must be changing in ways that impact defense also. As you get older, you are going to lose some quickness. But I don’t remember so many guys deteriorating so badly on defense once they hit 30. The game must be so much more spread out, faster, and athletic, these older guys get exposed much worse now. You have so many guys that can shoot 3s from beyond the 3 point line, everyone is running, it gets harder and harder to recover.

    It makes me a little sad to see Melo driving to the basket these days. Most of the time it ends up with a block or a missed layup. Time is a bitch.

    OTOH, I do get negatvie flashbacks when I see him complaining to the refs and not getting back on D. One of my biggest Melo pet peeves.

    Look, if you’re going to mock everyone, including me, who said OKC wouldn’t be the top 3 team you proclaimed them to be, then you have to deal with the abuse you’ll be getting all year.
    When I said that I don’t see how melo, Westbrook and George are going to be any better than prime Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka, you, er, gave your typical mocking response. Then on top of that ur boy Ruru comes on here talking about gravity and feedback loops, then of course disappears.
    You own this, and you’ll be hearing about it all season. You own the idea that OKC gave up 4 garbage players in Oladipo, Sabonis, Kanter and McDermott for the great melo and PG.

    See this is what I don’t get. You and your folks bring up OKC every day. Not me

    Me? I barely discuss OKC or Melo. You must have me confused with some other posters. I commented on the Thunder after I saw them blow a lead to the Nuggets because I thought they had that game won.

    The real problem is that every time you perceive some Melo-related slight you feel the need to interject on his behalf, even when the post doesn’t even mention him. It is rather odd, really, how you compulsively need to comment on anything having to do with him or his team even when its a rather seeming observation like the obvious fact that the team he happens to play on struggling bad.

    Well, I’m probably the biggest George Hill fan out there, but it really does look like playing with an elite defensive team and sneakily decent offense was making a big impact in his game. It might just be the beginning of the season, or that Utah was a super ideal situation for a guy like him, but he’s being outplayed by Fox, who has a much better assist to turnover rate as a 19 year old rookie, and is shooting terribly.

    I think the Knicks might have dodged a bullet if this production is George Hill’s level now. Of course, different teams and speculation and small sample size all matter here.

    About OKC, well, they’re playing just like Miami did when they for together: stars taking turns isoing 90% of the posessions. However, there’s a couple of factors here:
    1) their group of stars does not contain a certain LeBron Raymone James.
    2) their offense looks kinda the same now as it did with KD + Russ, but they also do not have Kevin Durant anymore.
    3) while George is shooting a lot worse than last year, last year is actually sort of the outlier in his career (.587 ts% in comparison to a pretty consistent career .556), and Melo is about tied with his last 3 years in New York and his career average.

    The one big dip in performance has been Westbrook’s shooting which has been just horrible, and honestly looks like a bad stretch that will get better soon enough.

    Look, if you’re going to mock everyone, including me, who said OKC wouldn’t be the top 3 team you proclaimed them to be, then you have to deal with the abuse you’ll be getting all year.
    When I said that I don’t see how melo, Westbrook and George are going to be any better than prime Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka, you, er, gave your typical mocking response. Then on top of that ur boy Ruru comes on here talking about gravity and feedback loops, then of course disappears.
    You own this, and you’ll be hearing about it all season. You own the idea that OKC gave up 4 garbage players in Oladipo, Sabonis, Kanter and McDermott for the great melo and PG.

    This is the bullshit I am talking about. I think Iam just about done posting here because its just corny now, im excited about the knicks and all you people wanna talk about is the Thunder.

    2) When did I say they were better than the KD teams???
    3)When did I say the 4 players were garbage? The only player I don’t like is Kanter, the others are fine and no one could have predicted the break out Oladipo season so far.
    4) You are proclaiming they wont be top 3 after 11 games and telling me what I have to deal with after 11 games what?

    Well IM gone now like ruru, this place clearly isn’t for me anymore.

    good to hear kp is back practicing…

    i wonder what the real story is with ron…i’m not sure how the whole injury report works – but – he’s not listed on it any longer…eager for him to start taking up jack’s minutes…

    got my fingers and toes crossed that ‘ol Kuz has been killing it in practice – would like to see him playing beasely’s minutes…then again, i’d pretty much like to see anyone else playing beasely’s minutes…

    didn’t start the season as much of a dougie fan – he just looks so incredibly nonathletic – however, no denying the effort he puts out while on the court, that and he can hit the three and cut to the basket…

    losing hope on seeing willy out there much until a trade occurs…

    I want to extend KOQ (assuming you can get good terms obviously), deal Kanter if a good deal comes along that can clear his contract or not take on a longer salary and treat Noah as a sunk cost.

    disengage er – it’s just sports fan talk = 99% bullshit…i’m not even sure what the other 1% might be…

    it’s all a matter of opinion…who cares if folks agree/disagree with your perspective – it’s your perspective and how you feel – no one else can tell you what to think or how to feel…

    seriously – who gives a shit what anyone else thinks (oops, probably shouldn’t have let that thought slip out)…

    If we keep Kanter an extension for O’Quinn makes zero sense. The issue is that depends solely on Kanter picking up his option or not, which is not a great place to be in terms of future planning.

    It’s rough because you have to think O’Quinn will ask for at least 10 mil a year, right? We pay 7 per for Lance. Then we would have 47 million committed to Noah, Kanter and O’Quinn next year, none of which is a star player or even a 100% sure fire quality starter.

    Damn, the Sixers are going to extend Covington to the tune of 50 million.

    Yeah, the other day I noted that they were seeming like they were going to do whatever it took to extend him. I didn’t think that it was going to be that much money, though! Good for him. He’s doing that thing where a guy is juuuust the right fit for a team and he gets paid for it.

    But it’s just next year Bruno. I don’t think we should be letting KOQ walk because we kind of had to take back Kanter in the Melo deal. IMO long term I want KOQ and Willy here more than Enes, but until the end of next year I don’t have a problem with all 3 here unless some sweet deal comes along.

    Unless we’re making a real playoff run, I think we really pretty much have to trade KOQ, or just let him walk at the end of the year. Kanter is a sunk cost, but giving KOQ 10 figures when we already have KP, Willy, Noah, and Kanter as centers on the team doesn’t really make any sense, unless we think that the contract we sign KOQ to is a good enough value that he’s still a positive trade asset.

    If Noah looks completely cooked, then I guess you can think about it, but my guess is that Noah is going to look serviceable for 10-15 min/game in 2018-19, leaving Willy to play 20-25 and KP to play the remainder at center. Even last year Noah’s numbers weren’t horrible, and he had about as bad a season as one could possibly imagine for him.

    Backup bigs are just too inexpensive on the market to spend that much money at that position.


    It makes sense, I agree with you… I’m just overall concerned, because when Kanter expires Porzingis’ extension will have kicked in already. With KP making 30 a year, plus THJ, Noah, Lee, Lance, add O’Quinn making let’s say, 10, this means the Knicks are 100% capped already, even if they don’t re-sign McDermott for anything relevant.

    I agree with you that just letting him go is probably a mistake, the cap situation just concerns me… but to be fair, the O’Quinn contract would be the least of our issues as long as Noah is here (and if THJ doesn’t improve a lot)

    Why is KOQ getting 10 figures? The market for bigs isn’t there. He’s not getting that type of money.

    Even considering the market drying, I assume O’Quinn will ask for a contract at least between what Dedmon / Felicio got (7 million per year) and what Olynyk got (11-12 per year) last summer.

    I can’t see why he would demand less than 3 years, 30 million for example, when his production is pretty close to Olynyk’s and he’s only one year older.

    One of this team’s biggest problems going forward is that three of our most productive players are on below market value contracts that will expire in the near future: KOQ, Doug and KP. If we let Doug and KOQ walk next year we’re going to be due for some regression unless some other guys really step up.

    I think at this point we need to treat our contracts with Thj, Kanter, Noah, Lance and Lee as sunk costs. We aren’t going to have real cap flexibility for 3 years, so we shouldn’t let productive guys in Doug and Koq walk because we’re worried about future flexibility. If we can keep them on market value deals, do it.

    The only caveat to the above is if we could get off of Lee’s salary AND Kanter opts out before KP’s extension. Then we’d have 30M in space and it would make sense to chase another big piece rather than bring back rotation guys.

    “You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!” (insert scary laugh)

    Knicks look great right now. Porzingis is playing as well as anyone I’ve seen in the uniform. The team around him moves the ball and hustles. Hardaway reminds me of John Starks a bit. You’ll scratch your head at some bonehead plays but he’ll make big plays in the 4th quarter. He’s a fantastic athlete. He’s less of a defender than Starks was but offensively is more fluid and multifaceted. I think Mills should feel vindicated even though TH2’s been very streaky and more bad streaky than good so far. Certainly I feel better about the signing than I would have giving a deal to Hill. Hardaway is entering his prime.

    I think the fact that we’re playing winning ball presently effects all roster calculations. O’Quinn is a big part of it. So is Lee. So is Kanter. If Hernangomez is plastered to the bench because he can’t get in and we win, so be it. If we win 40 plus games and make the playoffs forcing us to not maximize a trade asset because he’s a cog on the floor, so be it. If we have tough decisions to make about our cap because someone has forced themselves into a conversation about an extension, so be it. If we have a conundrum about how to make a 45 win team into a 60 win team, so be it.


    we shouldn’t let productive guys in Doug and Koq walk because we’re worried about future flexibility. If we can keep them on market value deals, do it.

    I agree with you.

    We have a few attractive deals and a few that are marginal or bad. We have to accept that that’s where we are and try to make nothing but good deals going forward. We’ll eventually either be able to trade some of the bad ones as they get closer to expiring or they will come off the cap right around the time some of youngest players are starting to peak. We should not allow good players on fair to attractive contracts walk because we are in semi tank mode or because we are worried about some unknowable future. We need more good players on fair to attractive contracts. That kind of thing will give us flexibility to TRADE even if we don’t have cap flexibility.

    Number of posters (not just here, but the Internet in general) that say they’ll never post again and then never actually post again must be about, what, 2%?

    No offense to you, specifically, er, and I’m cetainly not asking you to follow through on it, just noting that it is almost a cliche in how empty a pledge it is.

    So ruru came back here and dropped his little “gravity effect” chestnut and then disappeared.

    Think he would have stayed disappeared if OKC had come out of the gate 9-2 and Melo had a .590 TS%?

    Regarding Kanter and O’Quinn:

    1. I feel like I have firm grasp on O’Quinn’s contribution and would really like to keep him on a fair contract.

    2. I still have no idea how good Kanter is.

    Until I feel like I know whether I want to commit to Kanter long term or not, I’m really reluctant to trade KOQ. If we trade KOQ and then slowly realize that Kanter’s stats are all hollow, we are going to wish we still had KOQ to be part of our big man rotation short and maybe long term . So why not wait until we have a better grasp on Kanter? If he’s all “air” and we are stuck with him for 2 years, so be it.

    Forums can sometimes be difficult. It’s not always easy to communicate. People sometimes misunderstand. Sometimes they twist what you are saying to make their own point even though you never said or meant what they are attacking. Alliances form against certain posters. Egos get involved. Sometimes you just need to take a deep breath, let things go, move on, and come back later.

    I personally think that we should try to keep O’Quinn. He is the perfect backup center long term. The question is do we move Kanter, I think based on his play so far this year he could be dumped pretty easily, or do we move Willy for an asset.

    I think KP has shown with both his dominant offense and good overall defense that PF is a good fit and so going big to counteract all the teams going small seems like a good strategy moving forward. Kanter/O’Quinn splitting time at center might be the best solution long term.

    I can’t believe I’m saying this but maybe moving Willy is the right move. We could do Willie + Lance for Crowder + Osman or Willie + Lee for MKG.

    As for Noah, he shouldn’t factor at all in our plans. His contract is a sunk cost and he should be stretched the second we need cap space. I personally hope he plays 0 minutes for the Knicks this year. We have better, cheaper, younger players that all deserve and need time on the court more than him.

    Wow, Ron and Dotson both sent down to the G-League. I guess they have faith that their other guards will just improve?

    Keeping KOQ at a nice raise would be fairly easy and not hamstring us much if we traded the Courtney Lee contract that every other team is just dying to have. I like Lee enough, but he’s obviously not part of the future and I don’t even think he’s that essential to our current (relative) success.

    If we really can trade him at any time as a lot of people like to claim, keeping KOQ would be a damn good reason to do just that.

    Well IM gone now like ruru, this place clearly isn’t for me anymore.

    If you actually want to make your experience here better, you need to stop accusing anyone who says anything about Carmelo Anthony’s post-Knicks career of being “obsessed.” It comes off as especially disingenuous from someone who has spent literally years defending Carmelo Anthony from all sorts of reasonable critiques.

    You act as if you’ve made good faith responses to people who talk about OKC’s slow start, but all you do is say “hahahahaha #obsessed” or some similarly dumb shit that quite frankly comes off as projection.


    Or “lol you’re dumb”. As much as people go at each others throats here, keeping a certain level of respectability is necessary. I know myself and others tread a fine line in that sense but I’m quite sure I would be able to sit down, drink something and remember Knicks tragedies with pretty much everyone here. Getting heated is pretty much expected when it’s the Knicks, I dont follow other teams forums but I could take a wild guess that people aren’t constantly getting into huge arguments in the Warriors message boards for example.

    Is Ron being demoted to recover from injuries or just because? Seems really weird if it isn’t the case, after we heard so much about the coaching staff liking him etc.

    In Dotson’s case, if he’s not on the rotation anyway like it seems it’s a good idea, get him playing time while he shows what he can do.


    Don’t leave. Also, don’t take Carmelo Anthony criticism personally. Sure, it’s a reflection of your biases that you continue to defend his horrendous, overpaid ass, and yes, that’s a “you” problem, but also if you just look at the statistics and try to reconcile them with your assumptions about him, you will be absolved of your evaluative sins and we will accept you as one of us.


    Is Ron being demoted to recover from injuries or just because? Seems really weird if it isn’t the case, after we heard so much about the coaching staff liking him etc.

    Not as weird as Boban getting $21M to ride the pine despite being one of the most dominant offensive players in the league when he’s actually on the floor, but yes, it’s weird. Why give a bad player an inexplicable AAV and a fucking no-trade clause and then bench him?

    I mean, we put up with reub for such a long time, it really shows how inclusive this community is in a way.

    ER will be back. That dude couldn’t quit this site if he tried. He’s just throwing a fit because he’s feeling defensive about the fact that pretty much everything he predicted about Melo and this team has turned out to be wrong.

    Is Ron being demoted to recover from injuries or just because?

    It’s gotta be the former, right? It makes sense to let him work into game shape in games that don’t matter.


    Yeah, it’ll probably be one of those assignments based on schedule. Since the Knicks won’t play until tomorrow, they can play in the Westchester game tonight to get playing time and be available against Sacramento if needed.

    Bummer about Covington. The only player worth pursuing in free agency this summer might be RFA Kyle Anderson but I’m not sure he’s worth taking actions to free up cap. I believed the max extension was 3 years but 76ers did a renegotiation and extension versus just an extension allowing Covington to receive a substantial raise for the 2017/18 season using 76er’s cap room. I guess if we had just 5m in cap space we could have done a similar deal for KOQ for 9m/yr for 4 years including this season.

    Lee is playing 32mpg and Hardaway 34mpg. Are you telling me this team couldn’t take 10 minutes of their time and give it to Dotson? Dotson played well in Summer League and pre-season. He’s probably better than both those guys. He’s 23yo and NBA ready. Whatever happened to this season not being about wins but developing our young players? Sure they may be playing Lee to try to trade him but him playing 27mpg versus 32mpg doesn’t hurt that goal one iota. And then there’s Willy and Baker’s minutes. I don’t have confidence in Hornacek or this front office.

    Why give a bad player an inexplicable AAV and a fucking no-trade clause and then bench him?

    Mills is a horrifyingly bad negotiator and Hornacek has free rein with minutes? Likely they both are just down while we’ve got a few nights off to get some minutes.

    They might as well play Ron in the G league if they’re not going to play him in the NBA. Same with Dotson.

    Also Ron had 14 points on 7 shots and 5 steals. Dotson rebounded really well but shot terribly. He may need some time to adjust to the NBA 3, but the rebounding is promising.

    Not sure if it’s been discussed around here or not, but Jayson Tatum is having a Landry Fields-esque first month in the NBA. Fools gold? Or is this 19 year old only going to get better? (…and if so, that could put Boston a top the Atlantic for a decade or more…)


    The Prisons are the team I can’t understand the most in the NBA. They are giving minutes to Ellenson, Moreland and Leuer, who are all horrible, over Boban. Then Langston Galloway starts the season shooting a literally unbelievable .747 ts% and is behind in the rotation to Ish Smith, who is absolutely horrible. They start Stanley Johnson, who still has zero NBA skills, and are somehow 8-3 with top 10 offense and defense. I guess it’s a testament to how good Drummond and Harris have been so far, but if I had to guess one team that’s going to crash hard pretty soon is them.

    Not sure if it’s been discussed around here or not, but Jayson Tatum is having a Landry Fields-esque first month in the NBA. Fools gold? Or is this 19 year old only going to get better? (…and if so, that could put Boston a top the Atlantic for a decade or more…)

    I thought that Tatum was clearly an NBA rotation player (which is what I loved about this draft – there were so many NBA rotation-level players in this draft), but holy shit, I didn’t think he’d be this good!

    Tatum has been insane, really. I really thought he was not going to be good, even probably a bust, but to be fair he was a mediocre shooter in college and has been a superstar so far in the league. He shot like .342 from 3 with a .556 ts% in Duke, and so far in the league he’s averaging .529 from 3 with a .647 ts%.

    I have no idea if this amazing shooting is sustainable, and the college numbers suggest it isn’t, but nobody could predict this sort of insane jump when younger rookies overwhelmingly tend to struggle early on specially with efficiency. If he really is the player he has been so far for the Celtics, that’s a superstar.

    Tatum will come to earth. There are players who could put up incredible rookie-year numbers and sustain them, but they tend to be lob dunkers and low-volume wings with a decent outside stroke. Even Otto Porter, who I think is a legit star who will be the “glue guy” on a Finals team someday, can’t sustain his >.500 3P%, and he’s actually good. Tatum will come to earth, both in his 10-16 and 3P FG%.

    He might be an All-NBA player in a few years, but this is a solid rookie playing big minutes and getting lucky while he’s at it.

    Tatum was injured early on for Duke and did not put up great numbers, but most drafts had him going in the top 5 because the consensus was that his injury masked his actual upside. How smart does Ainge look for trading that #1 pick and getting another great pick PLUS the guy they really wanted?

    I hate to say if (because of my deep loathing for the Celts) but I think he can be a top 10 player in the league. His stroke is so pure (unlike Fields whose shooting form was awful) that he looks like he can be around a 40% shooter from there. And Stevens will utilize him correctly and hold hm accountable for defense.

    Of course, he was compared to Melo before the draft by some, and that never goes over too well here.

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