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Wednesday, October 18, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.09.22)

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony not mentioned in Knicks GM Scott Perry’s blog post
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:59:32 PM)

    If there were even a speck of doubt that Carmelo Anthony no longer is in the Knicks’ plans, it was swept away Thursday by new general manager Scott Perry.

  • [NYTimes] Scott Perry, New Knicks G.M., Likes Things ‘Clean and Neat’
    (Friday, September 22, 2017 2:32:49 AM)

    Known as a meticulous organizer, he has stepped into a wayward franchise that has never been described as “clean and neat.” His family is along for the ride.

  • [NYPost] Knicks are scrubbing Carmelo from the team — before trading him
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:01:00 AM)

    Knicks general manager Scott Perry, in a blog entry posted on the club website Thursday, made believe Carmelo Anthony doesn’t exist, following a franchise pattern. Perry mentioned the five members of the team’s young core and left out Anthony, who is on the trade block. The Knicks expect Anthony to be at Monday’s media day…

  • [NYPost] New Knick rips ‘liar’ Stephen A. Smith over weed accusation
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:18:35 AM)

    Just days after Michael Beasley said if the Knicks keep fading star Carmelo Anthony, they can comfortably make the playoffs with “four” players who can score 25 points per game, ESPN beef-stirrer Stephen A. Smith dissected Beasley’s overly optimistic comments by suggesting Beasley is smoking weed again. And then Beasley punched back, calling Smith “a…

  • [NYDN] 6 questions for Knicks brass Friday as training camp nears
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:55:49 PM)

    The Knicks are nothing if not predictably unsettled. There are always more holes than answers.

  • [NYDN] Knicks forward Michael Beasley calls Stephen A. Smith a liar
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 5:35:58 PM)

    Michael Beasley took strong exception to Stephen A. Smith bringing up his past marijuana use.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks President Steve Mills omits Carmelo from blog post
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 7:00:33 PM)

    Knicks President Steve Mills never mentioned Carmelo Anthony in a blog he wrote describing the team’s outlook under new leadership.

  • [SNY Knicks] How might the Carmelo Anthony situation shake out?
    (Thursday, September 21, 2017 3:45:34 PM)

    The story that has surrounded the Knicks all offseason has been Carmelo Anthony. Will he somehow stay with the Knicks or will he go to a contender?

  • 92 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.09.22)

    1. ess-dog

      Whoa nice little tidbit via Jason McIntyre:

      “Carmelo Anthony’s people are trying a Hail Mary attempt to get him to Houston (Knicks won’t do it) … before he accepts a deal to Portland.”

    2. Frank

      Jason Mcintyre seems legitimate (>100K followers on twitter) but really no one else seems to be reporting this including people from Melo’s camp. I guess we’ll see soon enough with training camp opening Monday. Seems likely if anything gets done it’ll get done before then.

    3. kevin5318

      There’s literally nothing Melo can do to get himself to Houston. Unless kidnapping Perry and forcing him to take Anderson counts as a plan.

    4. mase

      Am I wrong to think that Melos NTC hurts him as much as it hurts the Knicks when you consider scrutiny he will face if he is not traded…”hey it’s not our fault we can’t take back ryno’s contract! Expand your list of teams.”

      He has dug himself in a corner. That’s where I can defend phils decision to give him the NTC, which he shouldn’t have done… Nor should he have signed him,should’ve attempted a straight rebuild but that’s beside the point.

      Melo should say, ” I’ll play for Milwaukee, lakers, clips, pels, cavs, Houston, Portland, sixers, Miami, etc.” Cuz at this point I doubt he said he would go to Portland…when is this gonna end!

    5. Donnie Walsh

      “Carmelo Anthony’s people are trying a Hail Mary attempt to get him to Houston…

      A Hail Mary from the 2 yard line?

    6. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      when is this gonna end!

      It will end when/if Melo decides he would rather play on a good team so much he gives up his goal of joining Houston given that they don’t have the assets to get trade done and Morey singed Anderson to a contract that’s even worse than Noah’s.

      I think it’s clear he wants out as much as most people here want him to move on so we can rebuild.

      But it isn’t that obvious that Portland is the right destination from his perspective. They were a .500 team last year. Even if you think they have a better squad than their record (injuries and such), they are not contenders. Houston was excellent last year and added CP3. It’s a no brainer for him to want to go to Houston.

      What does he want more, to get out or to get to Houston?

      If he wants Houston badly enough, then it might be worth while for him to wait around until the trade deadline. Things change. From our perspective, take good deal or do nothing. Another few months of Melo is not going to cripple our rebuild.

    7. swiftandabundant

      Another few months of Melo will not cripple us but man it would be nice to start camp on Monday without Carmelo and just get a full reset on this whole thing. If we have Melo till mid season it means Horns has to implement him into the offense, he takes PT away from players, takes shots away from KP and Willie and Hardaway.

      No Melo also means potentially a worse team at least at first. But a more fun, young and faster team to root for. It means faster growth and gelling of our young core. I think our team could win just as many games without Melo as with but I’d much rather we win 32 games, get the 7th to 9th pick again without Melo than with. And if we’re better than that without Melo, so be it.

    8. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      I agree with everything you said.

      I would LOVE to start the season with Hernangomez, Porzingis, Harkless, Hardaway, and whoever wins the starting PG spot. I just don’t want to stifle future deals because we couldn’t wait just a little longer to trade Melo. We’ve waited this long to finally have a good young team, all our picks, and a decent cap position. I don’t want to damage that any more than the Hardaway signing might have and Noah contract will.

    9. thenoblefacehumper

      Morey singed Anderson to a contract that’s even worse than Noah’s.

      Anderson gets $3m more AAV than Noah for the same number of years, is three years younger, and was actually productive last year. Also he can physically play the sport of basketball most of the time. What are you talking about?

    10. sugarslim5

      When the knicks are 14-10 in November, no one cares whose taking the shots. When their losing, Melo’ s presence is carefully dissected, every detail criticized. KP and Melo played well together, now it’s melo’s fault he started struggling. This isn’t basketball knowledge it’s whining.

    11. sugarslim5

      Anderson gets $3m more AAV than Noah for the same number of years, is three years younger, and was actually productive last year. Also he can physically play the sport of basketball most of the time. What are you talking about?

      Ryan Anderson would not have been good on the Knicks last season. Noah was a key reason they were over .500.

    12. Bruno Almeida

      Reub is back y’all!

      Meanwhile we have this from Begley:
      “Scott Perry says Carmelo is a “professional” & “prideful” and he expects him “to play very good basketball when he returns.””

      Yeah, I have no idea what’s happening

    13. Frank

      But it isn’t that obvious that Portland is the right destination from his perspective. They were a .500 team last year. Even if you think they have a better squad than their record (injuries and such), they are not contenders. Houston was excellent last year and added CP3. It’s a no brainer for him to want to go to Houston.

      After the Nurkic trade, Portland went 18-9 with a +4.3 point differential (5th in the league for that period of time – better than Houston or Boston). Nurkic was actually injured at the end of March and didnt’ play again until the playoffs, so for the 20 games he was actually on the court , they were 14-6 with a league-4th-best point differential, including wins on the road over SA, OKC, Miami (which was red-hot at the time), and at home over Houston. So my guess is they think of themselves far more like the 2nd half team than the team that was awful in the first half. And honestly, a starting lineup of Lillard, McCollum, Aminu, Melo, and Nurkic would be pretty freaking awesome. I get why they would want that, especially if the best asset that goes out in that trade is someone like Harkless (who I really like).

    14. ClashFan

      The Melo situation is actually pretty interesting. The brass said all the right things yesterday in the game of high stakes poker they are playing with Melo and Houston.

      Who will blink? The Knicks? Houston? Melo? No one?

      I still hope, though, that if they get into camp and there’s no trade in sight, that they quietly pull Melo aside and tell him that he will be coming off the bench rather than starting. Maybe they are holding that card for now?

    15. JK47

      Melo gonna be chucking, jab-stepping and matador-defending for the Knicks until spring of 2019.

      Only about 4500 more minutes, guys! Start getting excited.

    16. Jack Bauer

      @21 – You might be right (love your accurate description of his strengths and weaknesses). The question will be is that outcome better than making some fucked up deal that hampers the future out of desperation to jettison Melo?
      Regarding Hardaway, let’s hope his play has improved since his last stay in NY. He’s still relatively young, has good genes, and doesn’t seem like a complete idiot so there is a chance.

    17. Bruno Almeida

      The issue is not so much Melo staying or not, it’s this franchise again refusing to commit to rebuilding.

      If Melo’s starting for two more years, that’s two more years of win-now with veterans that won’t win much and two more years of 8-10 picks in 5-man drafts.

      Trading Melo for either young players or terrible players plus picks at least would show commitment to rebuilding properly and trying to maximize KP etc development.

      Melo staying and playing “the same role” is 100% the worst case scenario for the future of this franchise. It might lead to 4-5 more wins each year, which I’m sure would be legendary heartwarming stories for many Knicks fans, but ultimately same shit, different season.

    18. bockadoo

      @23 if Melo means 4-5 more wins then he must be a good player, right? I’m not saying I want him on the team, but not sure I understand the logic. Either he sucks so get rid of him or he’s good so keep him. I wouldn’t mind a fresh start without him, but if the following reasonable, not out of the question things happen, then we might sneak into the playoffs and have a fun year: Melo declines slightly but passes more, Noah plays a reasonable amount at a reasonable level (supposedly he was injured all last year and limited him defensively and now he’s healthy?), KP is a 22 pt 10 rebound 3 blocks guy, Willy improves, Timmy scores 21 and plays ok D, Frank is actually good. If we can’t get a decent return for Melo, then don’t trade him because taking on a crap contract would hurt worse in the long run than being a fringe playoff team next year.

    19. DRed

      Melo sucked last year. I’m not optimistic about him this year if he’s reprising his role as sulking no-defense-playing chucker.

    20. er

      I think Melo will have a bounce back year regardless of team. The Phil thing was a real albatross…..remember the first year after Dantoni he was great. I’m not saying he would be that good, but way better than last year at least a w/s over .105

    21. Bruno Almeida

      @24

      In my opinion is not about Melo’s production. He was worth 4.7 win shares last year, which is mediocre, not good, but its mostly about committing to a rebuild. The Knicks won’t keep Melo in his starting star role and then play all the youngsters a lot of minutes in place of veterans like Lee, Noah, Sessions or O’Quinn. That team will win 30 some games and won’t be competitive and again were in the worst position in the league, neither bad enough to get high picks, not good enough to compete.

      Why focus on featuring a 33 year old mediocre player just so you can go from a 28 win team to 32 wins? Id much rather have a chance at developing with Bamba / Ayton / Porter / Bagley / Doncic plus our young core while dealing with one plus year of Anderson or Leonard than drafting low in the lottery again while holding on to the pipe dream that the cap space after Melo is gone turns into something really good.

    22. Ntilakilla

      When the knicks are 14-10 in November, no one cares whose taking the shots.

      Untrue, in fact, there was a huge call for Hornacek to run more of the offense around KP when he was shooting a very efficient percentage.

    23. Cock Jowles, #1 Tanking Denialist

      There is no possible way the Knicks are worse without Carmelo. He was one of the worst players on the team last year and the team won just 31 games. Replace him with a sack of potatoes.

    24. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      Anderson gets $3m more AAV than Noah for the same number of years, is three years younger, and was actually productive last year. Also he can physically play the sport of basketball most of the time. What are you talking about?

      Last year was probably as good as it’s going to get for Anderson given he was playing for D’Antoni. He’d be an end of the bench player on any other good team. He doesn’t rebound or defend well at all. On offense he’s mostly just a spot up shooter.

      Noah struggled with injuries all last year and may do so again, but if he stays even reasonably healthy we can count on him for very solid rebounding, good defense, and above average play making for 15-20 minutes a game. It’s a bad contract, but I’d take Noah over Anderson any day of the week and especially for 3 million less.

    25. DRed

      What I remember about the time when we were 14-10 was a particularly handsome poster getting attacked for saying that the Knicks didn’t have the point differential of a 14-10 team. Noah wasn’t the reason the Knicks were playing okay, it was more of a fluke.

    26. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      After the Nurkic trade, Portland went 18-9 with a +4.3 point differential (5th in the league for that period of time – better than Houston or Boston). Nurkic was actually injured at the end of March and didnt’ play again until the playoffs, so for the 20 games he was actually on the court , they were 14-6 with a league-4th-best point differential, including wins on the road over SA, OKC, Miami (which was red-hot at the time), and at home over Houston. So my guess is they think of themselves far more like the 2nd half team than the team that was awful in the first half. And honestly, a starting lineup of Lillard, McCollum, Aminu, Melo, and Nurkic would be pretty freaking awesome. I get why they would want that, especially if the best asset that goes out in that trade is someone like Harkless (who I really like).

      When I mentioned injuries I was mostly thinking of Nurkic. I think he’s pretty good. But I don’t think he’s wildly better than Plumlee was last year (at least yet). I think he played over his head for that stretch. Portland is pretty good, but their defense was bad and won’t get any better with Melo. They are not a serious team in the west.

    27. johnnyhoops

      Noah sucked last year.
      Melo sucked last year but will be better this season to show up Phil and aid in his escape from NY if he’s not already gone.
      Having Harkless to go with Baker and Frank would sure help our defense.
      And please let’s not ever let reub back in here because this place is much nicer with a homogeneous point of view.

    28. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      I’m in the middle on Melo. If the Knicks traded Melo, let Rose walk, and didn’t sign another significant scorer, I think they would totally suck. It wouldn’t be because I think Rose and Melo are any good. It would be because the team would not have enough players that could score effectively on higher volume.

      But I think Hardaway can score well enough to pick up some of that slack and KP looks to be further along than I expected. So I think the offense will manage if they get anything out of their PGs .

    29. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      Noah sucked last year.

      Noah sucked on the free throw line and wasn’t very good around the basket last year, but before he got hurt again he was showing some signs of improvement. He did everything else well even if he wasn’t up to DPOY standards.

    30. Frank

      If Ntilikina and Baker make up the minutes that Rose and Jennings played last year and Melo is replaced by Harkless, the defense will be so much better. The offense? Maybe not so much. But maybe the offense will be “unleashed” by Hornacek’s system. Stranger things have happened.

    31. Bruno Almeida

      @34

      So, we lost two guys who couldn’t score effectively on higher volume and we now have no players who can score effectively on higher volume?

      I honestly just want to see a clear direction from this team. Either move away from Melo asap and let him go or go all in in another foolish 8th seed chase. The inbetween is killing me.

    32. Cock Jowles, #1 Tanking Denialist

      Noah’s numbers looked okay, but man, my eyes were sore watching him around the basketball. The guy looked like he could get worked by a tallish former D-III post player at the Y.

    33. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      What I remember about the time when we were 14-10 was a particularly handsome poster getting attacked for saying that the Knicks didn’t have the point differential of a 14-10 team. Noah wasn’t the reason the Knicks were playing okay, it was more of a fluke.

      My view on Noah has nothing to do with whether the Knicks were winning.

      When I watched him play and looked at the stats I saw a guy that rebounded well, defended well (though not like he used to), made some excellent plays with the ball, but looked like he had a neural disorder when he was at the FT line or trying to score around the basket. He was never a good scorer or shooter, but I think some of that disaster was related to all the injuries he’s had in recent years and not being back in top shape.

      I’m not smart enough to tell you what the chances are that we’ll get 55-60 reasonably healthy games out of him once the suspension is over, but if we do, I think he’ll hit more FTs and be better around the basket than last year. If he does, he’ll be a good backup. He just won’t be worth the salary.

    34. DRed

      The thing about Noah is that aside from not being able to stay healthy is he’s not any better than Billy or Kyle.

    35. stratomatic watched KP and is less despondent

      So, we lost two guys who couldn’t score effectively on higher volume and we now have no players who can score effectively on higher volume?

      Assuming Melo is gone, I would not be shocked if Hardaway scores 20 points per 36 at better efficiency than Melo did last year and if KP does similar at an even higher efficiency. KP looks like a better player and Hardaway is a scorer. Plus we have a secret weapon in Beasley. The team will score. We may not have a top offense, but we’ll be OK. Defense is another issue.

    36. ClashFan

      I’m hoping that Hornacek’s comment that Melo would start and be used the same is just lip-service PR at this point. Say that to avoid drama at this time and try to maintain whatever trade value he has, etc. etc. blah blah.

      However, if the regular season starts and he’s still on the Knicks, they need to move him to the bench and not hijack the offense with his iso-tendencies and listless defense. I still think that would get him to consider a team other than Houston, if he stays firm on that point.

      As for Noah, let’s just hope the guy can stay relatively healthy and be a decent backup/mentor. Willie needs his minutes, and OQ too, esp. if the Knicks plan to trade OQ before the deadline.

    37. lavor postell

      I saw Noah out last year at a bar in LES with one of the most beautiful woman I’ve ever seen hanging all over him. That’s all I have to say about Joakim Noah.

    38. johnnyhoops

      @45 That sounds a little sexist to me. Who cares what a woman looks like? It’s what’s in her heart that’s important.

    39. Jack Bauer

      “Noah definitely could be a contributor if healthy.”

      I agree 100%, if he’s healthy he will help a lot. It will take some of the pressure off of KP and WH on the defensive end and help immensely with the rebounding and interior defense.

    40. DRed

      Did Noah ever have surgery? In 2014 Noah wrapped up his 5th season in a row of hitting more than 70% of his free throws. Him being a sub-Shaq level free throw shooter now is so bizzare.

    41. kevin5318

      @wojespn
      Story filed to ESPN: Carmelo Anthony has expanded the list of teams with which he’d accept a trade — including the Cleveland Cavaliers.

    42. kevin5318

      Carmelo Anthony, a 10-time NBA All-Star, has delivered the New York Knicks an expanded list of teams — including the Cleveland Cavaliers — with which he’d be willing to waive his no-trade clause, league sources told ESPN.

      After the Knicks insisted that they were unable to make a deal with the Houston Rockets, his primary trade destination, Anthony and his representatives honored New York’s request and furnished at least two more teams within the past 10 days, league sources told ESPN.

      http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/20788165/carmelo-anthony-gives-new-york-knicks-expanded-wish-list-teams-including-cleveland-cavaliers

    43. Bruno Almeida

      Hm, now we’re talking… so we know the Rockets and Cavaliers are on the list, is Portland the last of the “at least two more teams”?

      Now this gets very interesting because it will truly allow Perry to control the process much more. As pessimistic as I usually am, this is great news.

    44. johnnyhoops

      To me this means that Melo will almost certainly be traded, probably by Monday. I’m hoping that Portland is the 3rd team.

    45. Bruno Almeida

      For the contracts to work with Cleveland it pretty much has to include either Shumpert, JR or Thompson… something like Shump, Korver and Frye, for example.

      I doubt the Cavs will ever offer either Thompson, Love or JR, maybe Crowder is on the table? Id take Shump, Korver and Frye + Nets pick, but it’s also unlikely that’s a part of the negotiation.

    46. Z-man

      Clearly new mgmt is not caving. That’s a good sign that if Melo is traded, it will be favorable for us. Cleveland is tricky. They could do Shump, Frye, Osman and Felder. Or maybe something with Tristan. Ugly though.

    47. DS

      The Knicks want to get rid of ‘Melo more than they want to keep him. Stop talking about getting Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, or the Nets’ number one in return.

      We’re getting scraps like Shumpert, Jefferson, or Frye back.

    48. DS

      I think he should add Denver to his list. Get traded for Faried. Go play with Jokic and Millsap. Get your number retired there.

    49. johnnyhoops

      Well, we know that Portland wants Melo and they have good assets. Harkless would be a good fit and I crave Swanigan.

    50. Donnie Walsh

      The 4th team is the Beijing Ducks. He wants the Starbury treatment there. Not sure if they have the salaries to match up though.

    51. kevin5318

      @IanBegley
      Knicks have been informed that Oklahoma City is one of the other teams Carmelo Anthony has included on his list, team sources told ESPN

    52. Bruno Almeida

      OKC is a very interesting partner… They would have to include Kanter in any deal, and then they have a bunch of smaller contracts, like Abrines, Singler, Patterson, McDermott…

      They don’t have picks to trade as far as I remember, but a Kanter / Abrines / Jerami Grant package for example is far better than Ryan Anderson or the crap Cleveland would throw at us. Kanter has been very productive offensively in OKC and as much as he is not a rebounder or defender, he’s still 25 on a short contract.

    53. Bruno Almeida

      For Melo it’s all about star power, remember… then, Westbrook + George >>>> Lillard + McCollum. I agree he fits better with Portland, but I think Melo sees the potential 3 stars together and considers it better. The timeline would fit better for OKC tho, as all 3 guys would have one more year then a player option.

    54. Jack Bauer

      @75 “although I’m not sure Melo, Russ, & PG could co-exist” – Agree, but that would be their F’ing problem.

      Cleveland was added by Melo too. Knicks get 2018 Nets first round pick, Cavs get Melo- perfect!
      Not happening but we can dream can’t we??

    55. ess-dog

      OKC would be the easiest to deal with (if they even want Melo). Kanter is the best/most ready to contribute player of anyone under 25 on those teams. Maybe you get one or some of Abrines/Grant/Macdermott thrown in there too.

    56. Ntilakilla

      Perry is a muthafuckin genius! By standing firm and calling Melo’s bluff he just got him to expand the list to OKC. They have to be our best trading partner over Portland right now, no? I am not even considering Cleveland, they aren’t giving us shat. But OKC may just be the right organization considering that they are going to want to hedge their bet on Paul George since it seems he’s off to LA by this time next year.

    57. johnnyhoops

      Thinking about Cleveland, SF Cedi Osman could be a terrific pickup. He’s coming off of a great Eurobasket 2017 tournament where he dueled KP to a standoff in one of the games.

    58. johnnyhoops

      I’m hearing that goMelo is very close to adding the Blazers to the list. Harkless and Swanigan would be fantastic.

      By Sunday night his list might include every team except Sacramento.

    59. Bruno Almeida

      My pipe dream is still that Melo gets enticed somehow by the Pelicans and we get to Danny Ainge every pick they’ll ever have for the future.

      But hey, things are 100% looking up, that’s a rare knicksian occasion.

    60. KnickfaninNJ

      I’d rather have Utah than New Orleans as Melo’s destination. They have more to offer in a trade, they are already a good team, and he would help them. But I see no way Melo would actually want to live in Salt Lake City.

    61. JK47

      I’d rather have Utah than New Orleans as Melo’s destination. They have more to offer in a trade, they are already a good team, and he would help them. But I see no way Melo would actually want to live in Salt Lake City.

      I mean, he’s apparently willing to live in either Cleveland or Oklahoma City. No offense to those cities, but, uh, those cities both suck. Melo seems to want to play with other star players first and foremost.

    62. JK47

      Trade Melo for Kanter, Abrines and Ferguson. Then you have a team of all 2-guards and centers. That would at least be a new kind of Knicksy.

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