SNY.com: Sources: Knicks keeping an eye on options to improve roster as trade season approaches

Ian Begley continues his standout debut season at SNY.com:

We’re basically a week away from the unofficial start to the trade season. On Dec. 15, players who signed contracts as free agents can be moved.

As that date approaches, the Knicks (4-18) are keeping an eye on potential moves that would improve the team, per SNY sources familiar with the matter.

According to various reports, players like Dennis Schroeder, DeMar DeRozan and Kevin Love could be made available via trade by their respective teams.

The Knicks, per a source, are keeping their ‘eye on a lot of players’ as we enter trade season.

Due to injury or subpar performance, New York has been without a player who can regularly break down a defense and create a shot for himself or his teammates for much of the season.

Teams in touch with New York, in casual conversations, have said that some members of the organization lamented the lack of a creator.

Perhaps that’s something New York would target via trade.

It’s worth noting that, under team president Steve Mills and GM Scott Perry, the Knicks have taken a stance that they wouldn’t trade future first-round picks in any transaction.

It seems unlikely that they would go against that policy at this point in an attempt to improve the roster.

Also, it’s worth pointing out that just because the Knicks are looking at potential moves to improve the roster, there’s nothing to suggest they are locked in on that course of action.

New York has several players – Marcus Morris, Wayne Ellington and others – who are on one-year deals and could be attractive to playoff contenders. So, they could also explore opportunities to move those players for future assets.

I would have to imagine that they’re mostly just looking to sell and if they could sell while taking a guard back, they might try to do that. This team sure would look a whole lot better if they had a decent shooting guard that would allow Barrett to play the three. If you have to keep Randle, then it’s gotta be him at the 4, Barrett at the 3 and Mitch at the 5, with a point guard and then a shooting guard who could actually shoot.

In other news, despite acknowledging that the refs were wrong to not award the basket and were wrong to deny Mike D’Antoni’s challenge on the play, the NBA has somehow still ruled that the mistake, in a game the Rockets lost in overtime, was not notable enough to force the last 8 minutes of the game to be replayed. That seems bonkers to me. “The Rockets had enough time to make up for the mistake” is just mind-boggling to me as a reason to turn down a protest. It just reeks of, “Eh, we just don’t want to, so we’re not going to.”

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88 thoughts to “SNY.com: Sources: Knicks keeping an eye on options to improve roster as trade season approaches”

  1. You don’t develop young players by moving them in and out of the doghouse every time one has a couple of bad games or someone gets hot off the bench.

    let’s hope the term “doghouse” in regards to player rotations is now a thing of the past…

    oh yeah, as far as a nba level starting point guard coming our way…i’m not holding my breath…why o why did we not give rubio portis’ and ellington’s money…

    even the suns figured out that you need a point guard to win…

  2. oh yeah, as far as a nba level starting point guard coming our way…i’m not holding my breath…why o why did we not give rubio portis’ and ellington’s money…

    We are seemingly always linked to Rubio in someway, yet he has never played for the Knicks. Kind of like Ramon Sessions for a few years there. I feel he is destined to become a Knick……..just when he is over the hill.

  3. Once they lost out on the big names, they quickly pivoted to “We can get someone big later!” and so longterm deals to guys like Rubio were off the table and only the dregs were up for grabs.

    I am now awaiting the Brandon Ingram max contract from the Knicks this offseason.

  4. Schroeder, Love and DeRozan are available? Damn! Sign me up! The #10 pick sounds wonderful!

  5. You know, adding Fred VanVleet as a free agent would be kind of interesting, wouldn’t it? Imagine if they could somehow move Randle at no extra cost and then sign VanVleet and Ingram.

    A Payton/VanVleet/Barrett/Ingram/Mitch lineup would at least make sense in the modern NBA.

    Then you draft a point guard with their lottery pick and the entire roster is super young and interesting.

  6. If FVV keeps this up, I don’t see him coming cheap. At least $15M AAV if he’s making $9M now.

  7. “let’s hope the term “doghouse” in regards to player rotations is now a thing of the past…”

    When it comes to this team it is referred to as the Dungeon. Trier is currently stuck there for no apparent reason because Knicks

  8. I’ve been a Rubio fan for a long time. He can’t shoot well, but he adds value on both sides with his passing and D. I think he was out of place in Utah. He’s better in a faster open court situation where his passing skills can get some really good looks for teammates. I found the idea of Rubio, KP, and Hernangomez playing together intriguing back then because they all played in Europe and were supposedly friendly. It’s hard to believe we’ve gone so long without a good PG.

  9. If FVV came to NY he’d probably immediately turn into a G league player for no obvious reason.

  10. ppl keep bringing up rubio like it was super obvious…. no one was clamoring for him in free agency and rubio wasn’t gonna get signed here anyway since it required a 4yr commitment….

    i would much rather have payton at 2 yrs than rubio at 4 anyway…. even with the benefit of hindsight and me being a huge fan of rubio’s game….

  11. I had the fleeting thought that Rubio might be good value, then I went to look at his numbers and ran away from the idea as fast as possible. I did not want Rubio last offseason. Goes to show that stats aren’t everything.

  12. I think Rubio is unpopular and underrated because everyone wants a PG that can shoot these days, but he’s a very good play maker and he defends. His teams are almost always way better with him on court. He’s probably a tad too old for our group anyway.

  13. i would much rather have payton at 2 yrs than rubio at 4 anyway…. even with the benefit of hindsight and me being a huge fan of rubio’s game….

    in djphan i trust :)…you’re probably right…

  14. Interesting that Magic Mike is going to stick with Frank as his starting pg. I guess Team Frank is vindicated, and the Frank Haterz can go lick their wounds…

    Also, lots of people out in internetland stumping for Hinkie to come in and take over the FO — kind of surprising.

  15. I’m a big fan of Rubio and have been for a long time, but he is a guy that should be targeted for a team further along the process of rebuilding, not the 2019 Knicks. I hope one the PG prospects distinguishes himself throughout the season and we get a good long term option for once in the draft to paid up with Barrett and Mitch.

  16. Also, Houston is reportedly looking to trade future assets for wing players, and Mills and Perry really, really should be on the phone offering Morris right freaking now.

  17. I would be more than shocked if we were able to sign Brandon Ingram. That kid is who Boston is waiting on Jayson Tatum to turn into.

    It’d be so interesting to have Brandon Ingram in the same division with Tatum, Siakim, Durant, and Simmons.

  18. Interesting that Magic Mike is going to stick with Frank as his starting pg.

    He probably sees that the team has played better with Frank on the court even after you consider that the alternatives have been DSJr and experiments with RJ and Trier. Same thing the last 2 years with other dregs. He mentioned something about getting off to good starts with Frank.

    This is a kind of fundamental debate.

    Reality is what happens on the court and why.

    Stats are our attempt to measure that reality, value aspects of it, and explain why it’s happening. But they are incomplete and at this stage do not handle the complexities of a team game where roles, systems, teammates, matchups, fits etc… matter very well. Even adjusted +/- and similar attempts fail.

    Frank is obviously flawed and not good on offense yet, but apparently he does some things well that are not being fully captured by the generally available stats. This team and team France play better with him than without him. We sort of know what those things are.

    Until such time that the evidence starts supporting the case for Payton, he may stay with Frank or even try them together.

  19. I went to the Lakers v Raptors game and Fred Van Fleet was a marvel. He did everything well, made no mistakes, and you barely even noticed him out there leading the Raptors to an upset win on on the road. He is the antithesis of everything we’ve grown accustomed to in NY. If the Knicks sign him, that would be a true weather change at MSG (…I’ll believe it when I see it).

  20. great, now I’m rooting for the g-men to lose too…which, considering they’re the new york football “giants” shouldn’t be too hard to accomplish…

  21. someone on some kind of horizontal steel guitar

    Pedal steel I assume, very versatile and underrated instrument imo.

  22. I remember thinking at the time it must have been some kind of odd looking electric keyboard til he introduced the band…turns out there was some one in the back playing a keyboard that I just wasn’t able to see from where I was standing…

    I asked my buddy what the heck it was, but, he wasn’t sure…some lady standing close by just said it was an electric steel guitar, like it was the most obvious thing in the world…

    between that and the other four guitars playing – you could just feel them through the floor…it was beautiful…

  23. Jowles, this is in response to the last thread but I just wanted to make the clarification that I don’t perform stand-up. I write sketch comedy and perform improv and sketch comedy. I also have yet to step foot in Omaha but will be there in a few short weeks!

  24. I will not revise my claim, which would still be accurate if you were rather a mall cop or a pothole repaired or unemployed incel in your mother’s basement

  25. Whatever we do, I don’t want to continue running on a treadmill. Substituting C players for 2nd round picks makes me yawn. Whatever trades we make, we need to end up with picks and fixes the roster imbalance on this team.

  26. Bad night for the Rockets. First the NBA denied their protest (for moronic reasons) and then Nemanja Bjelica hit one of the more surprising buzzer beating three pointers that you’ll see to beat them.

  27. I’d rather bite the bullet and pay Chris Paul $40 mill until he’s in a wheelchair than get Schroeder or Love.

    There’s no way we don’t trade for Derozan. It’s Pills’s destiny to move Mitch for DeRozan.

  28. I’d rather bite the bullet and pay Chris Paul $40 mill until he’s in a wheelchair than get Schroeder or Love.

    Same.

    There’s no way we don’t trade for Derozan. It’s Pills’s destiny to move Mitch for DeRozan.

    I say this now, and who knows if it’s true for the actual future, but trading away the most talented prospect we’ve had since, what? Cylde? Doing that without letting time play out the way we ended up doing with KP.. that might actually be the last straw. That might be the point at which I start looking for someone who has a YES sign in. My time has value. If it weren’t for Knickerblogger I would have stopped a while back. Looking for “Statistical Analysis, Humor, Nets.”

  29. Don’t rule any Randle (plus one of Ellington/Portis/Taj) for Love trades out. On offense it would actually make sense. It would be a terrible roster handicapping trade, but I have no faith in this lame duck front office not trying to go for broke.

  30. To be honest I do not expect any crazy trades to happen. Seems to me that Mills and Perry are likely gone, and so even an owner as inept as Dolan won’t let lame duck FO guys make trades with long-term consequences. Sure, maybe trading Morris for two 2nds or a late first might happen, but I really doubt anything really objectionable will happen.

  31. I don’t think we have to worry about trading for Love. I don’t know who Kevin Love’s agent is or how much power he has, but the chances of Kevin Love wanting to come to NY are 0%. 5 minutes after he got off the phone with his agent he’d be causing trouble and asking for a trade out of NY.

    I said it last year when we were betting on Durant/Irving and if anything it’s a lot worse now.

    No star or very good player wants to play for a shitty team with bad management. You can get mediocre players by overpaying them, reclamation projects, or guys that are overrated by offensive boxscore stats looking for a payday (lol), but you can’t get players that are actually very good.

    The only way out of this mess is to find cheap underrated role players (usually defensive specialists), develop draft picks, maintain cap flexibility, and ultimately gain respectability. Then you at least have a chance to roll those “value” contracts up for better players, use picks as currency, and eventually get or develop the #1 and #2 option you need.

    Doing it with just draft picks takes forever no matter what because of the ages of the players, but it’s also very luck based. It’s hard to strike real gold in the draft even though it happens almost every year to 1-2 lucky teams.

    Doing it with just free agents doesn’t work unless you are already good and are an attractive organization. We should have known that before this year, but if we don’t know it now we never will.

  32. Honestly, I think a DeRozan-Randle swap (plus some other assets moving around) makes some sense for the Spurs and our front office. The front office gets an actual wing for this season and next in their weird “let’s keep trying to win now!” thing. Plus, the Spurs can actually get value out of Randle because Aldridge doesn’t clog the paint. Right now they’re starting the corpse of Rudy Gay at PF.

    DeRozan has a Player Option for next year and Randle has the year 3 de facto Team Option, so the years lineup decently too.

    Maybe the sum of all Frankophile fears occur and we throw Frank into the trade and Pop finally turns him into a superstar.

    I’d rather hold Randle since he’s younger, but the front office seems to be continuing on their weird win-now quest.

  33. Interesting stuff the last few days re: the eventual Masai-> Knicks scrum:
    From Michael Grange (in Canada):

    It’s hard to imagine the Knicks would lose a bidding war, if it came to that. Ujiri would be positioned to be the wealthiest executive in all of professional sports. Certainly MLSE is a well-heeled ownership group, but their majority owners are a pair of publicly traded companies; there may be limits. The Knicks? Restraint isn’t their thing.

    And from inveterate Knicks-hater Howard Beck:

    Sources also say Ujiri would be intrigued by the challenge of fixing the Knicks, the chance to build something from scratch and, not insignificantly, by the opportunity to elevate his Giants of Africa philanthropy by working in the New York market.

    Influential voices in the NBA have strongly advised Ujiri not to take the job, if it’s ever offered, sources say. But those same sources say Ujiri might do it anyway, if the money is right, if he’s granted the necessary autonomy and if Dolan funds Giants of Africa as generously as the Raptors ownership group has.

    Ujiri’s contract is believed to run through 2021 but with an out clause under certain circumstances. He turned down a lucrative extension last summer, sources said, leaving the impression that he wants to keep his options open.

    Just putting the marker down here on 12/10/2019 for when these same media guys say it was Jonathan Macri or Knickerblogger or whoever who “got Knicks fans’ hopes up about Masai” in some blog postings in April 2020 rather than these articles that they write and get clicks on from these same Knicks fans in Dec 2019.

    A few interesting things from these articles though – the Canadian article explicitly says Masai was never offered an extension by MLSE, whereas Beck says he turned one down when it was offered. Makes you go hmmm. And one can imagine the issue of MLSE being owned by publicly traded companies being a real one if/when Dolan comes with the godfather offer.

  34. I refuse to believe Masai wouldn’t strongly consider it. The difference in his profile would be massive and he seems like the kind of guy who would value that.

    The Ringer had an article on the Knicks. 11 point plan to fix them. Starts with:

    “At this point, you almost have to admire the Knicks for their commitment to self-sabotage.”

    https://www.theringer.com/nba/2019/12/9/21002375/an-11-point-plan-to-save-new-york-knicks-david-fizdale-fired

    Interesting article on the Pacers too highlighting the fact that all their players are young, on long term contracts, and a good fit with each other. Which is something that we may never be able to say about the Knicks.

  35. It seems like there’s enough smoke to believe Masai might at least consider it. However, all the discussions understandably contain the caveat “if he’s granted the necessary autonomy”, which I’m not exactly sure what that looks like. Ultimately, Dolan is still going to be the boss. When your boss promises you autonomy, it’s always going to ultimately boil down to how much you believe him, because once you accept the position, he’s still the boss and thus your enforcement mechanisms over any promises made tend to be pretty limited. And of course how could Masai or anyone else ever believe anything Dolan says. He can say whatever he wants but ultimately his 20 years of incompetent meddling speak pretty loudly.

  36. If Masai enjoys a good challenge, he’ll come here if offered a shitload of money. Even if he fails, it won’t tarnish his reputation (unless he fails specifically at GMing and does some dumb trades).

  37. Is it true that the Knicks are the primary reason that the no trading consecutive 1st rounders rule is in place?

  38. Is it true that the Knicks are the primary reason that the no trading consecutive 1st rounders rule is in place?

    Since it’s called the Stepien Rule, I’d divert my eyes toward Cleveland if I were you.

  39. It seems like there’s enough smoke to believe Masai might at least consider it.

    I don’t even disagree with this, but oh boy have we heard it before…

  40. @42
    Yeah, IIRC it was Ted Stepien of the Cavs trading first round picks away like Halloween candy that caused the rule.

  41. Masai in on record on a video saying “I hate the Knicks”.

    Maybe he was just clowning around, but he said it.

  42. Hey remember last year when there was a lot of smoke about two superstars coming to the Knicks?

    Or remember when Lebron, Wade and Bosh were FAs?

    Or remember when…

  43. There is clowning around and there is turning down 15 million per year….

    There is 15 million (more than 10 of which you don’t need) and selling you soul to work for Dolan and the Knicks or taking a little less (but still more then you need) and saving your soul and dignity. :-)

  44. Hey remember last year when there was a lot of smoke about two superstars coming to the Knicks?

    Or remember when Lebron, Wade and Bosh were FAs?

    Or remember when…

    Key difference: Player salaries are maxed. We can outbid everyone for Masai.

  45. I think the media has some masochistic tendencies when it comes to the Knicks. They like to get hopes up and then celebrate when it all comes crashing down. You just have to ignore them. It’s a variation on fake news. Don’t listen to what some people say, watch what key people actually do. People come here for a payday, but not people with better alternatives on the table, even if it’s for a little less money.

  46. Hey remember last year when there was a lot of smoke about two superstars coming to the Knicks?

    I think people (not jsut you, but many) who have concluded that was all BS have gone way too far. Durant and Kyrie did end up teaming up in NYC, and there was the seismic event in between of Durant tearing his achilles. We will probably never know exactly what went on behind the scenes and certainly will never know what would have happened if Durant was healthy but I don’t think the correct conclusion from the fact that it didn’t happen is that it never had a chance of happening.

    Nobody is coming anywhere close to saying that all the Masai chatter means he will for sure be our next POBO. But if the lesson you’re learning from the Durant-Kyrie saga is that all this kind of league rumor stuff should be ignored that’s not correct in my opinion.

  47. The one time there was significant smoke about a savior coming that actually turned out to be fire was when we hired Phil Jackson.

    So yeah, kind of all you need to know about this team.

  48. Its also a totally different situation. A player is thinking super short term. Especially someone like Kyrie and even more so Durant. They’re thinking…where can I go so that in the next few seasons I will have a shot at a ring and also be happy playing with so and so.

    A GM, especially if they are smart, is thinking long term. They’re looking at the current Knicks roster, who is on the books for the next few years, what the cap situation is going to be like the next few years, the draft pick situation, etc…and they are determining if they can build a winner in the next 3 to 5 years and if they can sustain that. Its a different time table for them.

    If a player was looking at our current team then yeah, they probably aren’t going to want to come here. But if a GM was looking at the cap and pick situation for this team over the next 4 years and also at the young pieces we have…I think they could be intrigued. We got RJ and Mitch. We got some other young players that maybe could carve out a role. We got 6 first round picks over the next few years and most likely at least this year’s will be a top 5 pick. We have no long term contracts bogging down the cap. Someone like Masai could look at all of this and say “I can work with this. Get me a good coach and a good team and I can turn this thing around.” The key is, of course, giving him FULL AUTONOMY in all decisions (plus backing up a truck full of cash).

  49. It seems like there’s enough smoke to believe Masai might at least consider it.

    Hey remember last year when there was a lot of smoke about two superstars coming to the Knicks?

    The one time there was significant smoke about a savior coming that actually turned out to be fire was when we hired Phil Jackson.

    Knickerbocker Dreams

  50. Edwards definitely has a case, but with the caveat that I haven’t watched much of him his 2PT% jumps out as an issue. Everything else checks out pretty nicely though.

  51. @47

    @41 – It may have been Stepian but the Knicks were doing the same thing.

    Not really, not close to Stepien’s level. In 1981 Stepien traded away several future first round picks (1982-1986, evidently), so the league put a sort of “trade embargo” on him, apparently that same year, to prevent further damage.

    In 1982 the Knicks drafted Trent Tucker with their 6th pick. Cleveland’s pick (#1) was made by the Lakers, who took James Worthy. Ouch! In 1983, Knicks took Darrell Walker at #12 . Cleveland’s pick (#3) was made by Houston. In 1985, the Knicks got Ewing at #1. The Knicks did not have #1’s in 1981 or 1984. They took three #1s in 1979.

    Cleveland did have some later first rounders that they acquired, though, and made during those years, but losing all their early firsts really hurt them.

  52. Interesting stuff the last few days re: the eventual Masai-> Knicks scrum:
    From Michael Grange (in Canada):

    It’s hard to imagine the Knicks would lose a bidding war, if it came to that. Ujiri would be positioned to be the wealthiest executive in all of professional sports. Certainly MLSE is a well-heeled ownership group, but their majority owners are a pair of publicly traded companies; there may be limits. The Knicks? Restraint isn’t their thing.

    Toronto is limited by their publicly traded ownership groups… ok. Aren’t the Knicks owned by MSG (NYSE: MSG)?

  53. Got it.

    I remind everyone that even though Masai has demonstrated a high level of competence, we shouldn’t go full hot hand fallacy on him. The systems that worked for him in Toronto will not magically disappear from their organization. Nor will being here mean that the rest of the league elite will stop the march toward evidence-based franchise management.

    I’m not saying that Masai would not be an extreme upgrade, perhaps the best thing to happen to the franchise since the frozen envelope. I’m just saying that he will likely take three to five years to turn this team into a contender. Will his methods be Billy Beane’d into mediocrity?

  54. I assume that if Massai came over here there would be some serious cleaning out of the organization by removing Jamie Mathews as Vice President of basketball operations, Allan Houston as Assistant GM and Kristian Petesic as Director of Scouting for beginners.

    But this pipe dream aside, anyone heard Stephen A. Smith report that Pills are currently considering giving Jason Kidd a head coaching job so as to attract Giannis as a free agent when his contract is up? Does this organization ever learn? We hired a subpar head coach in Fizdale for the off chance that free agent stars would want to come play for him. Perry was banking on his connections to Kevin Durant as well. Now look at us.

  55. edwards is a great prospect… however he has that nagging issue of dumb shot selection… he doesn’t have great talent around him and probably not great coaching but he’s probably shooting a lot more than he should be….

    he’s very talented but he forces things and he doesn’t understand that at this point…. it’s not that he can’t get to the basket.. .his dribble drive is good… just not great… and it’s a similar problem to what rj had early on … when he gets resistance he has a hard time adjusting to it…. and it’s led to him shooting more midrange and 3pt’ers than he should be..

    he has a ton of upside tho.. and that’s represented by all his other #s… he’s physically gifted for his position…. and the ball skills are almost there…

    wiseman is basically all there…. looks like vernon carey is also…. could be some hard decisions in the top 3 if we land there…

  56. anyone heard Stephen A. Smith report that Pills are currently considering giving Jason Kidd a head coaching job so as to attract Giannis as a free agent when his contract is up?

    Now that sounds way more like a thing that would actually happen to the Knicks. I doubt Giannis noticed that when the Bucks replaced Kidd with Bud they went from .500ish also-ran to super elite title contender, right?

  57. Yeah, but after taxes and cost of living $15 million dollars doesn’t amount to THAT much more.

  58. We had it right over the summer. This is a power forward league and we got a bunch of them, only they weren’t the right ones so we need to get someone better. Is Kidd a power forward? Yes! Can he still play? Yes! Will he land us Giannis? Yes, absolutely!

    It’s a no brainer, James, we need to pull the trigger asap.

  59. If we hire Kidd because reportedly Giannis liked him 3 years ago, that’s a damn knicksy move if I ever saw one. It would be close to hiring Mark Jackson because they think he was responsible for the Warriors became the best team in the league after he was fired.

    Chasing the past is a big part of what we do around here I guess.

  60. In 1982 the Knicks drafted Trent Tucker with their 6th pick. Cleveland’s pick (#1) was made by the Lakers, who took James Worthy. Ouch! In 1983, Knicks took Darrell Walker at #12 . Cleveland’s pick (#3) was made by Houston. In 1985, the Knicks got Ewing at #1. The Knicks did not have #1’s in 1981 or 1984. They took three #1s in 1979.

    Cleveland did have some later first rounders that they acquired, though, and made during those years, but losing all their early firsts really hurt them.

    The crazy thing about Stepien, and his level of trade incompetence that inspired a rule change in his name, is that the Cavs were able to rebuilt incredibly quickly. Stepien sold the team in 1983. By 1986 they had drafted Daugherty, Price, and Harper. Then they acquired Larry Nance and the next thing they knew they had one of the better NBA teams of the era.

    DOLAN NEEDS TO SELL!

  61. he has a ton of upside tho.. and that’s represented by all his other #s… he’s physically gifted for his position…. and the ball skills are almost there…

    I’m prefacing this by saying that this is not a rebuttal to your analysis nor an implication that you are advocating for Edwards, but a genuine question–

    I’m pretty tired of drafting “gifted” and “talented” players who can’t put the ball in the hole. Barrett is shooting .457 TS%. Knox shot .475 TS% as a rookie. Ntilikina was the belle of the ball at .437, which somehow went down as a sophomore and has precipitously increased to .477 this year.

    It’s remarkable how poorly this team is shooting. Their offense is 15th in TOV%, 18th in FT/FGA, and an incredible #1 in ORB (thanks to Mitch and Taj almost single-handedly). And still, because of the shooting (to no surprise of the Four Factors acolytes) this is the worst offense in the league by a full point per 100 possessions.

    Drafting another chucker is the last thing this team needs. If what you say about Edwards is true — that he is “forced” to take bad shots because of the dearth of talent around him — do you see that changing on this team, which currently has five (!!!) players shooting worse than .500 TS%, and only three (Trier, Robinson and Morris) above league-average?

  62. @58 – I stand corrected. The Knick did find ways to work around those rules by pre-trading picks but not announcing until after the draft, which was legal but not in the spirit of the rules.

  63. We have no long term contracts bogging down the cap. Someone like Masai could look at all of this and say “I can work with this. ..”

    I’m guessing the objective Masai would say to himself….”Hmmmm…. I have Siakim and Van Vleet (my own Stoclton/Malone) who are both 25, I live in the nicest big city in North America, my kids are Canadian citizens, I’m making a ton of money, I have oodles of cap space moving forward and I don’t have to look at that moron I fleeced twice every day and get his approval for anything.

    Hmmmm…. what should I choose?????????????????????????????????????????

  64. I have oodles of cap space moving forward and I don’t have to look at that moron I fleeced twice every day and get his approval for anything.

    Dolan is terrible. I wish he would sell the team, like all right-thinking people. However, the guy has clearly just shown the willingness to give full autonomy to his past two Presidents and on the hockey side of things, when things actually made sense, he has remained out of it for well over a decade. So there is plenty of evidence out there that Ujiri would have actual control over the basketball side of things. Of course, the best way to prove that is if Dolan was willing to clean house before Ujiri got here. I agree that if Dolan refused to do that, then you stay far, far away from this job.

    Also, VanVleet is a free agent. Who is to say he will even remain in Toronto past this season?

  65. @68 count me in on those draft feels. I’d rather have someone with excellent, demonstrated numbers at the collegiate level… not a crazy concept. This is because 1. High school is bullshit and 2. Athletic prowess does not equal basketball prowess.

    I’d be more than happy to trade down for a Haliburton/Bey/Toppin combo, which also gives you a greater chance of nabbing a legit starter than only having one pick.

    Btw, I’m all for picking an 18-year-old upside guy if he ALSO looks unbeatable in his current situation (e.g. Luka, Zion), but those are legit #1 picks.

  66. Also, VanVleet is a free agent. Who is to say he will even remain in Toronto past this season?

    He and Siakim form the best 25 and under duo in the league…. why would he want to leave?

    However, the guy has clearly just shown the willingness to give full autonomy to his past two Presidents

    Except when it came to changing the all important medical staff….. and who knows what else beyond the ever present “minders” from publicity and the gag orders and the non-disclosure agreements…..

    Dolan is an addict who is a control freak if anyone has noticed. Why subject yourself to that BS if you don’t have to?Look…. I’d love it if Masai walked through the door tomorrow, but I stopped believing in Santa years ago…..

    Masai is just another of the endless mind fucks foisted on Knick fans…..

  67. He and Siakim form the best 25 and under duo in the league…. why would he want to leave?

    Why would Kawhi want to leave after winning the title and NBA Finals MVP? Heck, why would Kawhi want to leave San Antonio before that? Players tend to want to play in bigger markets if given the chance.

    But yes, I agree that Dolan not being willing to fire the medical staff for Phil was a huge red flag and if he made any similar hesitation to Ujiri, he should pass on the gig, for sure. Dolan might be motivated, though, to do whatever it takes to get Ujiri.

    The Beck article, by the way, had the best argument for Ujiri, on top of all of the money and the theoretical control (and thus the ability to pull a Theo Epstein with the Knicks), which would be the higher profile for his pet charity.

  68. @67

    The crazy thing about Stepien, and his level of trade incompetence that inspired a rule change in his name, is that the Cavs were able to rebuilt incredibly quickly. Stepien sold the team in 1983. By 1986 they had drafted Daugherty, Price, and Harper. Then they acquired Larry Nance and the next thing they knew they had one of the better NBA teams of the era.

    DOLAN NEEDS TO SELL!

    Well, I read on JetNation that Dolan’s just been “unlucky” so far. So, we need to be patient with him as his luck should turn. Maybe in another 20 or 30 years, who knows?

  69. Dolan is an addict who is a control freak if anyone has noticed. Why subject yourself to that BS if you don’t have to?Look…. I’d love it if Masai walked through the door tomorrow, but I stopped believing in Santa years ago…..

    and there it is…

    roster and draft moves aside, the most important thing going forward is the dismissal of the current two in charge of the front office…

    the piece of hope I’m holding on to the tightest – it can’t really get worse than this, can it?

  70. that’s a fair question jowles…. i’m not advocating for or against edwards particularly… it’s all relative…. if we have the #1 pick… do i want edwards over wiseman? probably not… if it’s edwards vs lamelo ball… that’s a hell yes…. vs cole anthony? ditto…

    you can’t count on perfect prospects just falling into your lap…. unless you’re the mavs…. so you have to make choices… generally someone who scores very efficiently and physically dominates doing so… there’s really not much of a discussion…. there’s generally consensus that builds around guys like durant… wade… zion.. et al… very rarely do guys tick all/most of the boxes and then just fall in the draft… unless your kawhi leonard or paul pierce… or luka friggin doncic…

    and the further you drop in the draft the more imperfect prospects are…. and guys who can create their own shots are worth a lot more than guys who don’t… someone like cam johnson seems nice but why spend a high lotto pick on a guy like that when you have the MLE available every year?

    there’s risk with every draft pick…. and it’s a matter of what kind of risk you want to take… do you want to take a risk on a guy who has ability but without an optimal shot profile? or a guy who doesn’t actually have any ability but just looks like he does? or a guy who’s severely limited and likely will be even more limited in the pro’s?

    you should always bet on the guy who demonstrates actual ability first and foremost… our problem is that we haven’t done that basic thing and it’s continually hurt us…. so you shouldn’t shy away from guys like edwards just because they’re a ‘chucker’… sometimes those chuckers mature and figure it out… we’ve sort of seen that with rj so far… and donovan mitchell is another case of that… tatum is another…

    you should shy away from chuckers if you have better options.. .unfortunately in this draft there’s not many….

  71. Except when it came to changing the all important medical staff

    I think our medical staff is probably pretty good. The lead doctor did win an award for best in the league, the physical for Bullock was effective, and they don’t seem to rush players back only to see them get reinjured. A recent example is Elfrid Payton. He came back and within two games was good and he had a kind of injury that often gets reinjured (that said, I really hope I’m not jinxing him)

  72. Edwards is really good and should be in the conversation for top 3 in the draft, even with the needlessly high usage. Cole Anthony has been pretty horrible the last few games, and has been the chucker you should worry about (sub 40% 2pt%!! UNC has been bad this year unfortunately). Same with LaMelo.

  73. Why would Kawhi want to leave after winning the title and NBA Finals MVP?

    I’m pretty sure everyone knew he was going back to one if the two LA teams to be back home to play with LeBron/AD or to the Clips with another star. I don’t think Rockford , Ill will be getting an NBA franchise any time soon…..

  74. I think our medical staff is probably pretty good.

    It’s so good they couldn’t solve their best player’s anemia nor could the fix THJrs stress fractures twice.

    Hardaway had a stress fracture to his left tibia in Dec 2017 and it wasn’t “fixed” til he had surgery in Dallas last summer……

  75. I dunno, Anthony Edwards’ stats look pretty good to me…27, 7 and 4 with 3 steals per 40, BPM of 7.0, WS40 of .211, TS% of .543 on 32% usage, .375 from 3 so far on 9.4 attempts per 40, lots from NBA range…and won’t be 19 until next August…that’s pretty dope for a big guard. That’s as good or better than RJ was in virtually every important category and doesn’t have Zion on his team.

  76. I fell in love with Edwards watching the Michigan State game. I like his fit on the roster, too. He and Barrett would be a strong pair of wings (and they even handle the ball enough to carry Frank, if you want to).

    Look at his game log to see the knock on him, though. He’s laid some eggs. Don’t know if that’s a big deal when the overall numbers are that good.

  77. You would need one helluva coach plus a veteran PG, but this would be a fascinating core to start next season with:

    1 Frank (22 y/o)
    2 Edwards (20)
    3 Barrett (20)
    4 Knox (21)
    5 Robinson (22)

    Maybe I’m just excited to see a lineup without 3 PFs but I like the way it fits.

  78. Do I recall correctly that KP wanted to use his own doctor? As for THJ, it’s hard to judge whether he should have had surgery right away or not.

  79. well when all your pull up jumpers fall you can look pretty good…. he basically does that a lot no matter the situation…. and he struggles a bit driving in traffic…

    you can throw all the advanced stats out the window… bpm.. ws48… are highly dependent on ts and ts is not a good forward looking indicator…. it’s a backward looking metric… the much better forward looking metric is just 2p %.. and he’s underwater at 45%…

    it’s not so far underwater like it is with cole who has enormous issues compared to edwards… and it’s trending upwards so i’m not all that concerned but if you’re a top prospect you should be getting and hitting the shots you want… and those shots are in the paint not out on the perimeter…

  80. also while we’re talking draft… i would start paying a lot of attention to what vernon carey is doing… i know we’re pretty full on the frontcourt right now but he’s right in the mix with wiseman and edwards….

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