The Mike Miller Era Begins: Knicks vs. Pacers

Remember, Jeff Van Gundy’s Knicks lost in his first game, so this might not matter!

Let’s go, Knicks!

107 replies on “The Mike Miller Era Begins: Knicks vs. Pacers”

Hot Take:

Mike Miller hates 3 point shooting. I hope this means he hates Bobby Portis, too.

Just got in. Hey, looks like a competitive game, but rotations the same. Trier still in the Bastille?

At least there’s some effort to stress player and ball movement. It will take a few weeks, but more movement should help.

The Suns traded the #32 pick and TJ Warren to the Pacers for money. Wow.

Knox should not run PnR. Maybe someday as a once a game thing, but yuck.

DSJr sucks. He’s making Frank look like Steve Nash.

Dotson thinks he’s better than he is. Does pool more energized than I’ve ever seen.

I’ve loved Sabonis for years. I’d give up a lot of pieces to get him, or would if he could fit with Mitch.

Remind me again why we traded away McDermott?

We were already in “win in 2028” mode.

Remind me again why we traded away McDermott?

I was wondering the same thing, so I looked up his BR page. He was part of the Mudiay trade. He’s shot over 40% from 3 this season and last.

I think I finally figured out part of why I don’t like DSJr besides his generally poor play in Dallas and NY. When he makes a mistake or does something foolish, his body language and demeanor changes in a negative way and his game declines. He has to learn to play through the rough stretches so they don’t become rough games and weeks.

We’re still not good but the presence of a guy who can do some point guard stuff seems to make a difference

*runs and hides*

Payton is our best PG.

He should be starting. Frank should move to backup PG and play some off ball also. It might be tough to play them together because of the shooting between him, Frank, and RJ, but maybe we should take a look at it with Dotson on the floor. Banish DSJr to the dungeon, but keep developing Frank and keep that defensive energy out there when possible.

Yeah, I was asking a rhetorical question. It was for the honor of getting Mudiay, who Fiz was then going to fix.

The ball does seem to be moving better. Let’s see if that continues in crunch time when Melo Morris is back on the court.

Yeah, Payton is clearly our best point guard and is a very helpful piece to have out there.

Okay, and now they go back to Payton handing the ball off to Randle to initiate the O. Two possessions in a row. Why?

The thing people don’t realize about Payton is that he had several injury plagued periods that hid some excellent stretches of play when he was healthy. When you look at his annual stats, they look mediocre. But if you weed out some injury impact, it’s possible to conclude his development and actual ability has been hidden. So if he should go on a tear of solid starting level PG play, it’s probably not a mirage. He can play if he stays healthy.

Good dish from Randle to Mitch there but Randle is completely hopeless initiating from the perimeter. The guy dribbles so wide and looks like he is going uphill the entire time.

At least the Garden is rocking tonight. One of my favorite things.

Also, think Payton’s game stresses how much Frank is not a pg. He deserves our backup pg minutes, but for any other team he should play the wing. Also think Frank’s defense has really dropped from his stellar run when he first took over at pg. He was forcing turnovers, grabbing steals, blocking shots and really affecting the game. Maybe his injury has to do with the dropoff, but still.

They also had a player meeting before finding out about Fiz getting fired. May also affect their hustle. It’s embarrassing for the players to get blown out by 40 in two consecutive games too.

frank’s had stretches where he was forcing turnovers and was actually impactful defensively… it’s not a consistent thing with him… just reverting back to his true talent level….

Knicks going for a record – most shot attempts in a quarter

most offensive rebounds too

Paint is definitely too crowded with this lineup. Would help if Payton or RJ could shoot. Morris playing down low despite being our only 3pt threat. Not sure if it’s better or worse this way, the offensive rebounding is encouraging even if we can’t convert.


Agree on everything.

The defensive drop off began the very day they said he was having some groin pain again. He was not moving well on the court that night. He winced a little on a 3 point shot and was favoring one side slightly. Then they started talking about his back. He’s clearly well enough to play, but I think he’s almost certainly not 100% and can’t give that extra burst of energy we saw for a few games. He’s in a tough spot. If he sits out, he knows he’s going to lose his spot in the rotation. So he’s playing through it. He might be better off taking a few games off, but that’s not the way it works.

Man, can’t help but feel bad for Randle there. Truly can’t imagine that kind of pressure. Being a professional athlete is wild.

glad to have payton back…. the team will look a lot better with him getting the lions share of the pg minutes… this was very similar to the opener in san antonio… and hopefully he stays healthy….

also nice that miller realizes that mitch is his best center….

those two things alone will yield better results….


Frank’s groin has been killing him since he got in the league it seems. It’s really unfortunate because as down as I’ve been on Frank, we could really use the Frank that showed up for those few games. At this point though, I’m not sure he’ll ever be entirely clear of the groin injury.

I’m also expecting Payton to breakdown a bit and not look quite as good as he did this game.

Dennis is beyond broken right now. Still no idea how his shot got so messed up.

Very Knicksy loss. lol

The non tank disaster that we’ll say is a tank as soon as it’s apparent we suck is sailing along nicely for 3 years straight. lol

Looks like Mitch took off too soon, Payton should probably have tried to get the ball to him closer to the basket. There’s only a handful of players who can make that block on Mitch tho, I’m not gonna read too much into it.

Turner and Mitch himself would be the only ones who immediately spring to mind. Gobert might be able to, but he’d have been trailing the play by too much.

Yeah, Frank and Payton both have injury histories, so the “PG” position remains a huge need. Payton would be a fine backup and Frank a possibly a decent bench wing. For now, sure, split the PG minutes and let DSJ sit till there’s an inevitable injury to one of the other two.

Not sure what happened there with Mitch. Watched it a few times. Think he was just a little off balance.


I don’t know anything about groin injuries, but some guy on Twitter was telling me it sometimes becomes a lifetime issue without surgery. That would totally suck. I know when he was in Europe his workouts were designed to strengthen that area. I saw some workout video.

i think mitch was either tired or had some kind of minor injury late. he wasn’t getting up well for rebounds in the last few minutes.

Why the fuck is moron Mitch finger rolling with a clear dunk!!

“moron mitch” is not a good look, maybe buy a thesaurus or just say it to yourself

are we serious with blaming frank’s issues on his groin? is this like a lifetime issue with him that’s made him suck for his entire life?

I thought Mitch wasn’t getting up just because the paint was so crowded. It’s difficult when there’s that many bodies around and you don’t want to jump too soon. It’s at that point that positioning and strength is more important IMHO

Yeah, Frank obviously retweaked the groin and the back problem was either bullshit or the result of him favoring the groin. Needs to work on his core, because it’s obviously an issue with him.

Knicks were a bit better tonight but at the end of the day, the offense stagnated down the stretch and reverted to iso-ball, Randle was 6-18 again, and they lost at home to a team without its best player and its second or third-best player. Probably best that they lose these close ones anyway, because it will put the finishing touches on Pills’s hideous run.

I do think the groin issue has been a lifetime thing. It’s consistently kept him out over the years. Unfortunately for Frank, I don’t think we can really evaluate him apart from his groin injury because it’s so omnipresent.

I’m just trying to figure out why Frank seems to be less harassing on defense recently (alternatively why he was so good for that short stretch). Could just be random variance that did it or could be the reappearance of his groin issue. It doesn’t really matter too much in the long view of things. Just sucks we can’t have that Frank every night.

Really hoping the Knicks won tonight after playing a pretty good game and hustling their asses off in the 4th quarter. On the bright side looks like the Yankees aren’t messing around and are going all in on signing Gerrit Cole.


Yeah, pretty much everything from here is about getting rid of Mills and Perry and allowing some competent basketball people to use the cap space space, draft pick, and potentially trade extra picks to add youngish quality to next year’s team.

I rarely have anything good to say about the press, but it has been refreshing to see some honest accurate reporting on how bad these guys are in several articles.

the reason that frank doesn’t show up every night… is because that frank doesn’t exist…. it’s more or less variance…. you’re seeing what you want to see…

this is who he was in u18s… in the french league… in the pros.. and in the olympics… he’s sucked…. he’s capable of having a passable stretch but everyone is capable of looking really really good… some people’s really really good looks like jeremy lin….. for frank it looks like a backup pg …. the better you are… the better you look when you’re at your absolute best… you don’t look like a passable player when you thinslice your best 100 out of 5000 minutes….

I’m just trying to figure out why Frank seems to be less harassing on defense recently (alternatively why he was so good for that short stretch). Could just be random variance that did it or could be the reappearance of his groin issue. It doesn’t really matter too much in the long view of things. Just sucks we can’t have that Frank every night.

There’s a lot of variance in offense, but defense is more consistent. It’s about energy, fitness, and being able to give 100%. He was clearly not moving well on the first night, then left a game early, then took a game off, and hasn’t been moving as well or playing with a lot of energy since then. They should just give him a few nights off now that Payton is back. It’s not like we are competing for anything other than more losses than Golden State. lol

Yeah I don’t think I’m buying “Frank has a chronic groin injury” as an explanation for him playing like he’s always played


Is that you Perry?


If it is, you’re sorry ass should be next.

I feel the need to share this, i’m having a tequila and ginger ale in church right now…

at least we’re admitting that frank is bad now.. and not rationalizing how an 0 for 6 game was impactful….

Yeah I don’t think I’m buying “Frank has a chronic groin injury” as an explanation for him playing like he’s always played

It’s not chronic as in ALWAYS. It chronic in that it reoccurs more often than just a random injury. It’s a weak area that plagued him at the start of one season, again late last year, and now popped up for the first time again last week. The rest of his sucktitude is his own doing. 🙂

oops, I stand corrected…there’s the star of david on some glass work…

I still feel kinda cool doing it…

at least we’re admitting that frank is bad now.. and not rationalizing how an 0 for 6 game was impactful….

Personally, I think that’s a clueless view. You are more consistent than Frank. That’s for sure. 🙂

He’s a plus defender and very bad scorer that on a net basis is still a negative. But on this team, he’s been a consistent plus relative to players with better metrics because of his defense and unselfish play. Since he’s so good on defense at this age when healthy, you give him a chance to develop into a 3&D/secondary play maker like a Marcus Smart, Patrick Beverley etc… that can be an impact role player on a team with solid #1 and #2 scoring options (which we don’t have yet) or you don’t know what you are doing. That kind of development takes several years. The kid is shooting around 35% from 3 after shooting 33% for France and has clearly improved his handle. Patience is a virtue. Bad basketball decisions are not.

But on this team, he’s been a consistent plus relative to players with better metrics

yea no… don’t make stuff up and call me clueless….

put up or shutup… show your work or stfu….

I don’t think Frank’s “unselfish play” is really benefitting the team. It’s nice that he’s not chucking the ball a lot but he’s not creating much either and his offensive play doesn’t lead to a lot of easier buckets for his teammates.

I might be oversimplifying this here but Frank’s “unselfishness” often seems like “get this ball the fuck outta my hands.” It’s just really eye-squinty to suggest that the supposed unselfishness in and of itself has intrinsic value. He just doesn’t have the chops to create or score so he tends to make a lot of vanilla passes to whoever happens to be standing around. There’s a difference between “unselfish player” and “bad player.”

Everyone on this team’s metrics suck. Frank is better than most the Knicks by the metrics. It’s pathetic all around. I’d like to see Frank play SG or SF with Kadeem Allen.

I forgot about Kadeem, but he should be our backup PG (if we’re trying to win, which is debatable).

Frank’s ws/48 are at .034. It’s not like he’s a stellar option by the metrics, but that at least makes him a viable rotation player on an NBA team. I don’t particularly like his long term prospects, but Frank has been decent for us by the metrics. I do think not having a pg and forcing Frank to play there is detrimental to the team. As far as PGs go Frank is being overrated by the metrics. However, it’s not his fault he’s forced to play pg.

To reiterate, I don’t particularly like Frank. But he should get credit for being less shitty than most this dumpster fire.

Also, Dotson sucks and I don’t know why we give him minutes. He took about half his threes from 5ft beyond the arc. Maybe try being decent from three before taking heat checks. He was at 31% heading into tonight’s game.

I mentioned yesterday that we lost a few games due to poor FT shooting.

Add this one to the pile.

I feel the need to share this, i’m having a tequila and ginger ale in church right now

Last year a friend showcased a piece he’d written for pipe organ in a church with a big fat pipe organ. There were some other artists, and I really enjoyed chillin in the pews with a can of beer (or several) while the kindly brother looked on. Probs the best religious experience I’ve had as an atheist.

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