Knicks Morning News (2016.05.13)

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Friday's Knicks Links: Could Skiles' resignation affect head coach search (Fri, 13 May 2016 04:56:43 EST)

    Friday's Knicks Links: Could Skiles' resignation affect head coach search

  • [New York Times] As W.N.B.A. Opens Its 20th Season, Key Figures Recall the First Game (Fri, 13 May 2016 09:00:36 GMT)

    On June 21, 1997, the Los Angeles Sparks, led by Penny Toler and Lisa Leslie, hosted Rebecca Lobo, Teresa Weatherspoon and the Liberty.

  • [New York Times] Thunder 113, Spurs 99 | Oklahoma City wins series, 4-2: Kevin Durant Scores 37 for the Thunder as the Spurs Go Quietly (Fri, 13 May 2016 04:02:45 GMT)

    Oklahoma City will face Golden State in the Western Conference finals after upsetting second-seeded San Antonio.

  • [New York Times] Durant, Thunder Beat Spurs and Return to Conference Finals (Fri, 13 May 2016 06:27:35 GMT)

    Now that Kevin Durant is back, the Thunder have returned to a familiar place.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Dispatch Spurs, Advance to West Finals (Fri, 13 May 2016 04:51:27 GMT)

    For much of the season, the Golden State Warriors and San Antonio Spurs seemingly were on a collision course. The teams with the two best records in the NBA were predestined to meet in the Western Conference finals, while the up-and-down Oklahoma City Thunder were an afterthought.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Beat Spurs, Advance to Western Conference Finals (Fri, 13 May 2016 04:27:34 GMT)

    The Thunder flipped the script, and now they’re heading to the Western Conference finals.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Dispatch Spurs, Advance to West Finals (Fri, 13 May 2016 03:39:27 GMT)

    Kevin Durant scored 37 points as the Oklahoma City Thunder eliminated the San Antonio Spurs with a 113-99 victory on Thursday in Game 6 of their Western Conference semi-final series at the Chesapeake Energy Arena.

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    60 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.05.13)”

    1. You know what’s really admirable about the Spurs, even though they got shellacked in a closeout game? Even if TIMMAY!! and Manu retire, hell- Parker too- they should still be a really good team built around Pop’s coaching/great staff and Aldridge/Kawhi/Anderson/Boban/Green/possibly West, Martin & Diaw sprinkled in. That’s what I would love to see Phil build, but for all his bball genius- we have little to show for it except for KP and talk of a plan. I do have faith in Phil, but patience is running thin and anxiety is creeping in.

    2. Yea, lets start the day comparing the Spurs to the Knicks.

      It’s Friday the 13th. It’s a full moon. Maybe this is our time?

      Stories being floated out there that the Spurs are looking to sign both Durant and Conley.

      As per Phil: “Chasing a point guard, where it becomes just an obsession, isn’t necessary. It’s not necessary. We can play the game without that.”

      Please, someone, put me out of my misery.

    3. Chasing after a PG in free agency this summer is a waste given the lack of quality options there. Conley is the best one available and he’s going to get a max which he’s never going to come close to earning.

      And if Phil really thought he didn’t need a solid PG then he wouldn’t have spent a first round pick on Grant or been interested in trading for Goran Dragic, Reggie Jackson or Jeff Teague.

      Contrary to popular belief there are many ways to build a championship team. You need a few great players regardless of position and some more good ones to complement them.

    4. Contrary to popular belief there are many ways to build a championship team.

      True, but in 2016, the PG really does appear to be the most important, the top 5 PGs in the west play on the top 5 teams in the west (Curry, Weatbrook, Paul, Lillard, Parker). And the top 6 PGs in the east happen to play on the 1-6 seeds too (Irving, Lowry, Thomas, Dragic, Walker, Teague). There is, likely, more too team success that just having a good PG, but that’s a lot of correlation to just disregard.

    5. John Wall is better than most of those East dudes and his team missed the playoffs. Ricky Rubio is probably better than Tony Parker and he played on one of the worst teams in the NBA.

    6. DRed, true. Getting Wall or Rubio is a start but is not enough. One of those guys Donnie Walsh mentioned, even Conley, is what we need. You can’t win with below average point guard play. Average means below top-15 in my mind. Just because you have one, doesn’t mean you win, but not having one pretty much assures you of not winning.

    7. There are just a lot of good PGs right now. That’s all that tells me.

      All those teams have a lot more going for them than just good PG play.

      We obviously need better PG play, but having an All-Star PG is not a pre-requisite to winning.

    8. DRed, true. Getting Wall or Rubio is a start but is not enough. One of those guys Donnie Walsh mentioned, even Conley, is what we need. You can’t win with below average point guard play. Average means below top-15 in my mind. Just because you have one, doesn’t mean you win, but not having one pretty much assures you of not winning.

      We’re not winning on some elite level no matter what we do this summer. The goal isn’t to max out Conley so that we can win more games next year and pay for post-prime production for both Conley and Melo on max deals. Conley will be getting more AAV on his next contract than Melo.

      No matter what we do this summer we will still have holes to address moving forward. The PG crop in next year’s FA class and in free agency is superior to what’s there in both areas this summer. Our focus should be getting more athletic on the wing and at most locking in a stop gap type PG.

      The only potential PG free agent that intrigues me is Dellevadova, but he’s restricted and Cleveland is likely to match anything he gets.

      This also gives us another year to allow Grant to develop and further evaluate him. Maybe he shocks us an turns in to a solid starting PG, or maybe we realize he’s capped out as a good backup, or maybe he sucks. Either way being patient in that area when the alternative options at the position aren’t all that enticing is what we should be doing.

    9. I was looking at a list of coaching changes in the Popovich era (1996-present) and figured the Knicks would definitely be at the top.

      Memphis 13
      Orlando, Washington 12
      Brooklyn, Detroit, Lakers, Sacramento 11
      Chicago, Cleveland, Denver, Golden State, New York 10

      So we’re a model of stability, relatively speaking, what a franchise! Yay us!

    10. The best available point guard option when you consider productivity, age, and likely contract is none other than 26 year old Seth Curry. You can get Seth for $5M a year and that .603 TS% would be career bests for both Rondo and Conley, and both of those guys have likely played their best basketball already. I’d rather we take a risk on a guy who has displayed he can ball even if it was only a 692 minute sample size.

      Call me crazy, but I get visions of Seth Curry and Lance Stephenson being a modern version of George Hill and Lance Stephenson under Knicks’ future head coach Frank Vogel. We need to fulfill the prophecy.

    11. I don’t think PG is that important. Generally speaking it’s the best position to ride the coattails of talented frontcourt players. (cough cough Isiah, cough cough). It never hurts to have talent there but a lot of teams have won NBA titles without a star point guard. Phil Jackson won 11 titles without one.

      Obviously, Curry and Paul are pretty legit.

      In other news, yes, this Kevyn Duront guy looks to be a rising talent. We should see about acquiring him perhaps before other people realize how much potential he has.

    12. Agree –

      Pass on Conley – there is no way we will be good enough to justify maxing out a player who is clearly not a max player.

      Concentrate on getting another wing who can do 3/D kind of stuff, and figure out who will be able to actually guard a PG on dribble penetration. Ideally that’d be someone like Batum, but I’d be just as happy spending way less money on Bazemore, Crabbe or even Evan Turner.

      Actually Lance Thomas might be our best bet for a 3/D type of player who will come at a reasonable rate. It’s no coincidence that our season fell off the map right around the time his knee issues started.

      Re: PG – Grant and theoretically Wroten should be able to guard dribble penetration. From everything I’ve read on Wroten, he has great defensive potential but just gambles too much. That should be something you can coach out of him, but who knows.

    13. Owen I don’t think it’s that simple. Phil had Scottie, one of the original…and probably second best (after Lebron )point forwards in NBA history . Then he had Shaq….who just needed anyone who can make an entry pass. Then he had Lamar Odom and Pau Gasoline, 2 of the best passing 7 footers in NBAhistory

    14. I don’t think PG is that important. Generally speaking it’s the best position to ride the coattails of talented frontcourt players. (cough cough Isiah, cough cough). It never hurts to have talent there but a lot of teams have won NBA titles without a star point guard. Phil Jackson won 11 titles without one.

      I think it’s clear that the league has changed, and, at this point in time, it is very difficult to be good without a good PG.

      The fact that Dred could only name 2 good PGs on bad teams to counter my claim that the 11 best teams have good PG kind of highlights the point.

    15. Even Phil’s republican guard has to admit that it’s awesomely funny/familiar that something like this could be written about the Knicks largely in passing:

      Knicks general manager Steve Mills also is in Chicago, though the whereabouts of Jackson still are unknown. Jackson last tweeted May 4 from South Dakota and was headed on a previously scheduled retreat to his summer home in Montana.

      I mean, that sounds like a paragraph you might have read about the search for Eric Rudolph.

    16. In terms of moves we make this summer, we should just look to add players that will attract Chris Paul to NY in a season. If we can’t get Whiteside, then sign Lance Stephenson and Seth Curry and bring back Galloway, Vujacic, D-Will, and LT. I think Stephenson would command the RoLo contract, Seth around $5M, DWill around $8M, and LT/Galloway should each command the Kyle O’Quinn contract. Your rotation would look like:
      PG: Curry, Grant, Wroten
      SG: Stephenson, Calderon, Galloway, Vujacic
      SF: Melo, LT, DWill
      PF: Porzingis, Hernangomez
      C: Lopez, O’Quinn

      That should be a playoff team if we do the right thing and hire Frank Vogel. I can see that team winning 48 with Vogel’s defense and some triangle ball movement. If we get Whiteside, then trade RoLo to Atlanta for Korver/Sefolosha and let Vujacic, and DWill walk. In that scenario your rotation looks like:

      PG: Curry, Calderon, Grant, Wroten
      SG: Stephenson, Korver, Galloway
      SF: Melo, Sefolosha, LT
      PF: Porzingis, Hernangomez
      C: Whiteside, O’Quinn

      Under Vogel that team wins 55 games and everybody is happy. Larry Bird looks like an idiot because Vogel will end up coaching one of the top offenses in the league, Phil Jackson looks smart because Rambis/Shaw is on Vogel’s bench, Vogel gets to coach a huge front court and develop Porzingis, Curry, and reclaim Stephenson, Melo gets an insanely good team around him, and we’ll have Sefolosha, Korver, and Calderon coming off the books so we can make a big move for one of CP3 and Westbrook in 2017. It’s a genius plan, I tell you.

    17. I love Allan Crabbe.

      I will continue driving this bandwagon, and I am curious what everyone thinks about the following questions for Crabbe and Fournier:

      (keep in mind the most he can get is 21 mil/yr baby max match by his team)

      1. How much we should offer him?
      2. How much he is worth?
      3. Where is the line for Portland matching offer sheets / do they match all the way up to 21 Mil?

    18. @23

      Crabbe had a great playoffs and he’s an excellent spot up shooter. Also seems to have some decent defensive skills, though not all that great on that side of the ball yet. I like him, but if you want him he’s probably going to be close to a max and I don’t think he’s done enough to warrant that type of money.

      Fournie, to me, is a clear cut above him offensively. He’s more efficient on higher usage while playing against opposition starters. He’s an elite 3 point shooter from above the break and he’s efficient on a wide range of shot types. He’s another guy if we want we’d need to go near or full max.

      If I had to choose between the two at that price I’m taking Fournier always.

    19. If I had to choose between the two at that price I’m taking Fournier always.

      @24 Very fair analysis. I think I agree. You def take realized potential over unrealized potential at the same age 10/10 times. As shooter i’d say they are pretty equal, but Fournier’s more advanced in his driving game … we think (who knows since in POR Crabbe just spots up. Is it cuz he can’t drive or bc they don’t use him to drive? I don’t watch enough of them to know)

      Logistically, you can’t offer maxish offer sheets to both @ the same time (because what if you get both lol) so the knicks would have to consider not only who they prefer but who they are more likely to land, which is what makes it tricky. IDK how I’d handle it, to be honest.

    20. I don’t like the idea of signing RFAs because you almost always have to overpay for them. Crabbe is a great shooter but doesn’t do much else well. I’d rather we go after UFA players than pay a guy like Crabbe 8 figures a season.

    21. Max’ing Crabbe seems a little nuts. I get the attraction at a lower salary level, but he’s not a plus defender or passer or finisher or rebounder or lane filler. Could improve on defense, he’s so young and has good size, but that’s far from certain.

    22. 3. Where is the line for Portland matching offer sheets / do they match all the way up to 21 Mil?

      Maybe not $21 million exactly, but very close to that. The cap’s going to jump one more time next year unless the CBA changes things, so I don’t think they’ll feel “stuck” with Crabbe at around $20 million.

    23. I’d consider offering a poison pill for Tyler Johnson as the first 2 years are capped at $5.7m.

    24. I don’t like the idea of signing RFAs because you almost always have to overpay for them. Crabbe is a great shooter but doesn’t do much else well. I’d rather we go after UFA players than pay a guy like Crabbe 8 figures a season.

      I don’t know how much evidence supports that of late, to be honest. A lot of them end up underpaid. The guys who have had RFA deals of > 10 mil last 2 yrs: Hayward, Parsons, Middleton, Avery Bradley, Eric Bledsoe, Kawhi, Butler, Tristan T, Enes, Reggie, Tobias, Shump, Knight.

      All of those guys are either 1) going to be overperforming their contract value even by the 70 mil cap standard, or 2) will not do so only potentially because of injury (parsons, bledsoe), or 3) were paid because teams had money to spend on them which *could not* be spent on UFAs – shump, Tristan T. (also bc lebron lol).

      in 2013, you had pekovic and tyreke getting 12 and 11 per yr respectively, which were overpays given their obvious weaknesses/fragility, but I think both of those were plenty justifiable given that both of them had very quality years before that.

    25. @BC

      They have a bunch of interesting FA decisions to make moving forward. Crabbe and Harkless this summer, both guys I think teams would willingly overpay for and whom I suspect Portland would want to keep. Then both McCollum and Plumlee will be RFAs next summer as well and I’ll be surprised if CJ isn’t getting max buzz assuming he plays at his current level or even improves. Plumlee won’t be getting maxed, but he’s definitely in line for an 8 figure starting salary. Lillard’s extension also kicks in this summer.

      Even with the cap rising, I don’t think they’ll keep all those guys, so it’ll be interesting to see who they feel is expendable and what value they put on each guy.

    26. Maybe not $21 million exactly, but very close to that. The cap’s going to jump one more time next year unless the CBA changes things, so I don’t think they’ll feel “stuck” with Crabbe at around $20 million.

      agreed

    27. Even with the cap rising, I don’t think they’ll keep all those guys, so it’ll be interesting to see who they feel is expendable and what value they put on each guy.

      @lavor

      This is why i kind of feel like offering a sheet (mayeb not max but a lot) to crabbe would have a higher likelihood of success than one to Evan. Gotta be 100% chance the Magic match anything for him right?

    28. I don’t know how much evidence supports that of late, to be honest. A lot of them end up underpaid. The guys who have had RFA deals of > 10 mil last 2 yrs: Hayward, Parsons, Middleton, Avery Bradley, Eric Bledsoe, Kawhi, Butler, Tristan T, Enes, Reggie, Tobias, Shump, Knight.

      But only one of these players actually changed teams: Chandler Parsons. All the other players resigned with their current team. And Parson’s contract was 3/$46,000,000 plus a 15% trade kicker. Houston didn’t match that because it is an over pay. Just like Asik was an over pay when he was poached from Chicago and Lin was an overpay when he was poached from NY.

      Parsons is a good player, as is Lin, and other restricted free agents that haven’t been matched. But there is a huge risk to overpaying guys like this because it wraps up a lot of salary in 3rd or 4th options and if they get injured, your payroll is pretty much screwed.

    29. I’m not sure with Orlando. A lot of weird shit going on there.

      They seem committed to Payton at point, they took Hezonja at 5th last year and he projects as a 2/3 and then they have Dipo, who will be an RFA next year who they like at the 2.

      A lot might depend on where they go in the draft this year, but I think if you maxed Fournier that it’d be something they really have to consider before matching.

      I agree that when it comes to both Crabbe is more attainable, though my gut tells me Orlando would pass on matching a Fournier max. That could just be because I really like him as a player and would like him on the Knicks though.

    30. A lot of weird shit going on there.

      and that was before skiles stepped down. lol

    31. I remain to think the only risks the team should take are in the draft and in unrestricted free agency. It doesn’t make sense giving Fournier or Crabbe a bloated contract if he wouldn’t command that money in unrestricted free agency. I like Crabbe and in the right place he could be a Kyle Korver type guy, but that place has nothing to do with triangles. I think we would be paying a lot of money for a guy who has never broken a .100 WS/48 or WP48. That is likely to be a busted investment even if the contract is movable. You want to offer guys contracts that you’re going to want to keep. Fournier is a different case because he’s started, has put up a higher TS%, WP48, and WS/48 but he’s still a risk. You want to give those contracts to .200 WP48 guys or .140 WS48 guys, and neither guy has been that thus far.

      Seth Curry is the best bet, people. He’ll likely command 25-40% of what you’d have to offer both guys and has the same amount of potential even if he’s two years older. Plus he pays a more important position.

    32. You want to give those contracts to .200 WP48 guys or .140 WS48 guys, and neither guy has been that thus far.

      I agree, but these are definitely deals I’d label as gambles. My thing is if we’re going to splurge cash and gamble on FA’s I want to target younger players who still have room to grow and aren’t in their prime yet. While there’s definitely an element of risk in giving Fournier a massive contract, it’s one I’d roll the dice on and live with the possibility it’s a huge overpay.

      Seth Curry is the best bet, people. He’ll likely command 25-40% of what you’d have to offer both guys and has the same amount of potential even if he’s two years older. Plus he pays a more important position.

      We could just sign both if you think Curry’s going to be that cheap. Either way I don’t think Curry is a starting caliber 2 guard, though he does certainly seem like a rotation caliber player to me.

    33. Honestly, the most bang for the buck in RFA this year is Harrison Barnes because he is better than Fourneir and Crabbe and there is a real chance that GS wouldn’t match a max offer. They’re all 23 years old, but with Barnes you get a strong, vetted defender, who can, at the very least, be a solid offensive player going forward, if not blossom in a more features role.

      I know people are looking at guards for NY, but if you’re going to throw $90,000,000 at an RFA, it may as well be the best one available. (And Barnes’ versatility at the F spot allows Melo to play the 3 or 4 and Porzingis to play the 4 or 5.)

    34. I don’t think Curry is a starting caliber 2 guard

      Isn’t Seth Curry related to Eddy Curry? No thanks.

    35. I’ve been a big advocate of Felder myself–he’s certainly worth a flier in the late second. But I think our most pressing need is SG, not PG, so I’m not sure if we should use a late second on him or someone else like Gbinije or, if we snatch an earlier 2nd, wayne selden or the like.

    36. @42

      Brogdon, Gbinje and Levert if he drops in to the 2nd are the wings I’d really like.

      If we’re looking for a 3/4 type Dorian Finney Smith from Florida might be good.

    37. I really like Levert myself and think the injury worries are legitimate but overstated, I just don’t think he’s gonna drop far enough for us to pick him.

      I think we need a backup SF badly unless we’re resigning Lance, and even then, it’s still a pretty significant position of need. I’d rather fill either of those slots than PG unless we can snatch Gary Payton or Melo Trimble or something or we get multiple seconds this year through shrewd acquisitions.

    38. Honestly, the most bang for the buck in RFA this year is Harrison Barnes

      Max Harrison Barnes?? Just go ahead and max Jonas Jerebko because the Knicks have give this board Stockholm Syndrome.

    39. It doesn’t matter who we max because we have an old man with a geometry fixation in charge and Rambo, his helper and spy. We’re doomed!

    40. it’ll be really interesting to see if all these players actually get maxed. just because there is a lot of cap room out there doesn’t mean everyone will necessarily get maxed just because they are ok players.

      honestly – is anyone really going to give Mike Conley what amounts to an AAV of $30MM/year?
      I like Conley and everything, but that seems a little nuts.

      instead – maybe the middle and lower class gets a few more million each. So whereas Allen Crabbe might have gotten $8MM this year, he’ll get $12MM. Langston Galloway probably would’ve been a mini-MLE type guy, but maybe now he’ll get $6-7MM. Or something like that.

    41. @47

      I don’t think everybody is going to get maxed, but the market for wings seems likely to be crazy inflated and the cap is set to jump again next year another $18m, so even a full max now will be viewed by some teams as either a discount or market value moving in to next summer.

    42. So whereas Allen Crabbe might have gotten $8MM this year,

      You are nuts if you think no one is going to offer him more than that. Even for all his deficiencies, he can shoot 40 from 3, 45 from mid range, and 60 at the rim. If you think 8 is the expectation for him, literally every player will seem overpaid!

    43. I only want Frank Vogel, but you can bet I’d much rather have Fratello than Rambis

    44. Max Harrison Barnes?? Just go ahead and max Jonas Jerebko because the Knicks have give this board Stockholm Syndrome.

      We’re talking about maxing Allen Crab and Evan Fournier. Barnes is a better basketball player than those two, so, price being equal, you get more per dollar.

      The point of this conversation hasn’t been to advocate maxing these guys, but to illustrate how bad of a proposition poaching RFAs tends to be.

    45. The point of this conversation hasn’t been to advocate maxing these guys, but to illustrate how bad of a proposition poaching RFAs tends to be.

      this response seems rather fair except it ignores the crucial point that if you think of a jonas jerebko joke you have to make it

    46. Max Harrison Barnes?? Just go ahead and max Jonas Jerebko because the Knicks have give this board Stockholm Syndrome.

      I love the “but this year’s max will be a steal in future years!!!!!!!!!!!!” argument.

      No. Do not give anything close to max money to Harrison “I’m the 8th-best player on the 1st-best team in the NBA this year” Barnes.

      And then also max Jonas Jerebko just to remind ourselves that #becauseweKnicks

      Also, can the NBA just call off this Semifinal matchup and decide it via coin toss? We need Warriors-Thunder ASAP.

    47. Seriously though, our team is going to look so much better in a short amount of time so hang in there guys! Help is on the way.

    48. If DRed were GM, I’d believe you. But I’m still not sure if Phil is trying to teach geometry or win basketball games.

    49. Patrick Ewing is interviewing for the Grizzlies job. Patrick Ewing with the Grizzlies is a win in Knicks land on all sides!

    50. Not exactly quivering in anticipation for game 7 of Heat-Raptors, might have to do some painting and watch it dry instead.

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