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85 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.23)”
Welcome to the dog days, all! Fairly glad all that finals stuff is finally over, was getting really tired of reading the same stories over and over again. Congratulations to iHart and OKC, big hugs of condolence to Donnie, sad to see an injury impact an otherwise exciting game and series and season, but I guess that’s what too often happens.
Semi-excited to run it back more or less with a new chef to see if he can squeeze more juice out of our lemons. I am absolutely convinced it CAN be done, I’m also convinced it could fail miserably if not played just right. Which will make for a very interesting season and a lot of fatuous arguments over the next 12 months.
On-on! Deuce-Deuce! Let’s go Mets!
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6443219/2025/06/23/knicks-head-coach-james-borrego/?source=emp_shared_article
Edwards hears that both Jenkins and Brown were impressive in their interviews, which played out over multiple days, and also that we may reach out to James Borrego, who was NOLA assistant this season. “Borrego, a CAA client, is known around the league for his offensive creativity and analytics-forward approach.”
Not really sold on Borrego although his roster was suboptimal to say the least — if the bar is “good enough coach to be an advantage in the playoffs”, then a 27 point loss in the 2021 play-in game and a 29 point loss in the 2022 play-in game is not exactly confidence-inspiring….
I think maybe give me Taylor Jenkins – young/innovative/smart. Borrego can be an assistant coach maybe. Not sure about Mike Brown – I feel like he is a bit of a retread at this point – this would be his 5th HC opportunity.
The draft is in 2 days!!!
There’s a bunch of older shooters who could be available at 50 that would make sense as a player who might add some immediate value.
Good point, EB, I guess I’m still so annoyed at the Cooper situation that I’ve been studiously ignoring the draft.
I did appreciate Edwards’ Athletic piece outlining a few options at 50. He certainly made some of them sound interesting.
It’s spring 2024. Donnie Walsh is in love. The apple of his eye is the Philadelphia 76ers. He gets close to them. They let him in. Eventually their best player gets injured, never regains his form, and their next season is a disaster.
Fast forward one year. Our little floozy has given his heart to the next thing that winked at him. The Pacers treat him better than Philadelphia but it doesn’t matter. Donnie is a cruel witch. He unleashes his voodoo at the last minute, wrecking their best player for the next season, too.
Donnie, can I buy you a Cavs jersey?
Did the options include punting on it?
Hate to see the finals go down like that after it being so close. Hali might be a tool sometimes but never great to have a season end with an injury.
It does, however, bring up a very interesting scenario for next season.
Boston will be rebuilding and trading some of their players while Tatum rehabilitates. And now, gotta wonder what the Pacers will do. Haliburton will be out for most of the season. Do they try to tread water and get in as a play-in team next season and hope to catch magic during the playoffs again? Usually it takes a while for guys to be good again even after they come back because of the extended time off. So do they punt next season?
I’m not familiar with their cap situation but do they have guys they want to unload now since next season could now be a wash?
Regardless, it sets up a potential situation where us and The Cavs are the only real “contenders” next season in the east. I think Detroit and Orlando will improve but still don’t think they’ll take that leap to top team status.
Does this change our calculus at all as far as what we do this off season?
Yeah, the Cooper thing is really dumb.
Vecenie put out a podcast episode on the Knicks off-season. Pretty much all of it is stuff we already know, but in the last 5-10min they name drop a bunch of potential picks at 50:
* John Tonje (unlikely but possible to fall)
* Alijah Martin
* Johni Broome
* Bruce Williams
* Chaz Lanier
* Micah Peavy
* Max Shulga
* Koby Brea
* Vlad Goldin (might be under Vladislav)
* Kobe Sanders
I’m not on here as much as I used to be but, do we gush over Presti enough? That roster is gorgeous! We hope that we have something in Dadiet, Huk, and Kolek and OKC has like 16 guys with above average WS/48, most of whom appear to be 23, to go with their 11 first round picks coming up in the next 5 drafts.
Part of me is relieved that they won it now so that they will think twice about cashing in when the next superstar that goes on the market.
We’re tied with Houston and Cleveland for the 2nd best title odds in 2026! Admittedly far from OKC who’s rightfully by far the favorite, but still, not a bad place to be considering all the agita.
I’ve always liked Borrego just based on what I’ve heard about him, and his Charlotte record is, I think, fine-to-good considering his rosters/resources.
what is the cooper thing that keeps getting mentioned
Dallas trades Luka to the Lakers in what is widely perceived as a ridiculously lopsided trade in favor of the Lakers. Dallas then gets the number one pick in the draft despite having very slim odds of landing the number one pick.
Buss family then announces they’re selling the Lakers for a whooping 10 billion dollars. Hmm, would the new owners still want to buy The Lakers if they only had Lebron, who will retire in the next few years or did they orchestrate this whole thing behind the scenes so they could secure Doncic, who insures the Lakers will remain good and profitable for the next decade. Dallas gets Cooper Flagg as a favor for helping facilitate this.
Is Alex Jones posting here now? 🙂
Harrison and Kidd would have to know (*) and they’d tell someone.
Ownerships in sports have certainly said to GMs, “We need to move Player X,” but extraordinarily rarely if ever have they said, “We need to move Player X to Team Y.”
(*) Ownership would have to tell Harrison to trade AD to LA, Kidd would say something like, “Dude, WTF?,” Harrison would tell him.
We do. However, I usually note that the vast majority of their rebuild success can be attributed to the PG-13 trade where the Clippers were paying for Kawhi as much as PG.
They got SGA in that trade. He wasn’t even their own picks. They also got Jalen from one of those picks. If that trade doesn’t happen and they don’t land the MVP, the rebuild looks a lot different.
I mean, you don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to think this is what went down. Seems pretty obvious to me.
Why would Dallas trade a top 5 player, future hall of famer, who just took his team to the finals and who is just entering his prime for a broken down, aging Anthony Davis? To The Lakers? A Western Conference rival, no less?
And how improbable is it that they would then just happen to get the number one pick in the draft, a draft where Cooper Flagg is largely regarded as a potential franchise player? When their odds to land the number one pick were like, what, 1 percent?
And then the Lakers just happen to get sold for 10 billion dollars?
A conspiracy is usually something that seems improbable. This is all very obvious.
very interesting speculation but also seems unlikely for many reasons thank you for cluing me in on it tho i think the most and maybe only unlikely aspect of it is the rigging of the draft lottery by silver if i understand correctly that this is what is being alleged
It certainly helped that Presti had Leon to take to the cleaners on draft day ’22. Going into that draft they had SGA, but were still only a 21 pythag win team, 28th in SRS.
And here we go. Now we gotta listen to E all summer pine over Presti and pick apart Leon.
Dude, find a new tune.
But the Lakers don’t control the draft lottery. Also, Doncic was offered to Minnesota for Edwards first.
Luka wouldn’t drive the value of the Lakers up $3 billion. They have a locked in local TV contract already and already sell out the building and already have LeBron and a very popular brand. And AD’s a popular and talented player. No one anywhere is adding $3 billion to the check because of Luka Doncic instead of Anthony Davis.
That’s grade school conspiracy imaginary economics talking, with a nice dose of fanboy thrown in.
Sports fans now follow players making millions of dollars and think that makes them some kind of experts on business … but they aren’t.
The Lakers’ sales price is discounting income and cash flows that are projected to flow into the business for decades after Luka Doncic makes sitting at the pool eating Cheetos his permanent gig.
I’m no conspiracy theorist. I’ll just say it was by far the worst look of any suite of decisions made in the NBA since I’ve followed the league. It’s uncannily and, if I may quote the Princess Bride, inconceivably stench-producing.
The part that bugs me the most is Harrison somehow getting statistically-nearly-impossibly ‘rewarded’ for one of the most hideously destructive, lopsided trades in history. In a just and equitable universe, that would never happen. I cannot in good faith say it’s Silver’s doing, but it’s certainly Loki’s.
I think we need a SF/PF or preferably a PF who has some degree of athleticism and, ideally, defensive projectability. That’s hard to find at our spot, but my preferences is to trade up (if possible) for one of Broome, Thiero, Markovic, or Toohey. If we can’t trade up, taking someone like RJ Luis wouldn’t be a bad choice.
Yes, but Lebron retiring in the next season or two and the Lakers then sucking for at least a few seasons after that would certainly hurt their value, no?
Luka was/is insurance for the post-Lebron Lakers era. With Luka they will at least be in the playoff hunt for the foreseeable future.
Two things:
1. Pacers represented the EC well. Kudos to a team who is clearly greater than the sum of its parts that somehow became a legit defensive team.
2. OKC will be much better next year after going through this season’s on job training. Book them for a back to back championship, 70+ win season and an undefeated 30:0 record against the entire Eastern Conference.
ps. Obi should buy Hali a Rolex and a thank you card.
Yes, but the NBA does. And The Lakers are the most valuable property/team in the NBA.
Re: Lakers
Look for Jeannie Buss to buy them back at ~ $5B valuation in a few years.
As we all know from experience, things don’t always occur linearly in the NBA. Look at Boston, just a few years ago they looked set up for multiple titles and now they may have to go into rebuild mode.
The Thunder will definitely be the favorites for the next few years, but there’s no guarantee they’ll be back in the Finals next year or the year after that.
Not saying I believe in a Luka conspiracy, but that idea sounds like Descartes compared to an Alex Jones theory.
Re: the new Edwards piece in the Athletic
I’d forgotten James Borrego won 43 games with a Hornets team led by a 20-year-old Lonzo Ball. If his tactical/analytical nous lives up to its reputation around the league, then bring him in for an interview.
“That’s grade school conspiracy imaginary economics talking, with a nice dose of fanboy thrown in.
Sports fans now follow players making millions of dollars and think that makes them some kind of experts on business … but they aren’t.”
I see E is back to being his usual condescending off-season self. Grade school, fanboy, some kind of experts…
Suffice to say I don’t care about the draft but would be surprised if a bit of that $3billion premium didn’t make its way to a bank account in Macau.
lonzo ball was 22 and 23 years old when he was with the hornets he was with the lakers earlier than that having been drafted by them but still point taken i have shifted my alliance from taylor jenkins to mike brown and i think back to taylor jenkins now i guess my indecision means that i could be happy with either one who has confidence they can get more out of the team we already have other than upgrading the bench so that we have one hopefully with hart and bridges on it
Obviously there are no guarantees in life.
They’re all young and tied up on dirt cheap contracts. This first championship was the hardest. Their nuts dropped. Now they’re confident, battle tested and experienced champions.
It’s a prove it and then get credit world but this is an all-time great team. It’s not a one and done type where you can’t afford to keep the key role players like Denver and LA bubble teams were. It took Boston too long to win the first one and then followed by considerable bad karma.
E is smarter than all of us. He also is a true fan, who just happens to never post when we’re actually doin well.
Also, the idea that there aren’t some conspiracies in the world is naive.
A conspiracy is nothing more than when a small group of people plan to do something in secret. To act like there is no difference between an Alex Jones conspiracy about Lizard people and the machinations of wealthy NBA owners tipping the draft is stupid. The NBA has been accused of all sorts of machinations before involving the draft, trades, games thrown, etc. It is not some wild idea to think they orchestrated this.
Winning 43 games with the Hornets is pretty impressive.
Imagine how bad OKC would be if they didn’t draft Ousmane Dieng
final answer is mike brown of the 50-40 .556 playoff winning percentage over taylor jenkins of the 9-14 .391 playoff winning percentage brown has much more experience and much more success we already kind of have making the playoffs down pretty well right now we have to find a way to have more success once we get there
I think Mike Brown is a sneaky good choice, IMO. His time under Kerr seems to have given him some new skills with offenses and he’s always been a well-liked player coach. It’s easy to point at him and say “no rings” but that can’t be the only prerequisite for an improvement over thibs.
I think it’s easy to say get a better coach that Thibs but Thibs IS a really good coach. So, for me, it’s more about is the coach as good as Thibs but better in other ways, ie, better with offenses and maybe better at making in game adjustments or adjustments that are proactive rather than reactive.
I don’t know if Mike Brown is the guy but I feel pretty confident that he wouldn’t take us backwards.
I believe I’ve mentioned this before: before Doncic, Laker fans knew they were boned as long as LeBron kept playing; having him play to have his son in the same team was his dream and part of the cost of signing him before covid hit. They got a title out of it, but the past 2+ years made it clear he’s essentially holding the franchise hostage. And I can tell you that my work trolls are clearly over him.
Also factor that LA fans are mostly fickle and fairweather. If there’s no star to sell them on, they’ll find other things to do than go to games. Every year, it becomes more apparent to the LA casuals that LeBron is old and can no longer carry a franchise. They’re not going to sit through and support a full rebuild even when he finally hangs up his kicks. And they don’t have the draft picks currently for a proper rebuild even if he retired this year or next.
So Doncic ensures a lot of things for them to maintain relevance locally and to be a draw. And bc they’re the fucking Lakers, another star will somehow always shake loose for them… naturally during Doncic’s prime.
@UnderdogNBA
List of franchises without an NBA title:
Pacers
Clippers
Grizzlies
Hornets
Jazz
Magic
Nets
Pelicans
Suns
Wolves
@UnderdogNBA
Most wins in a single season in NBA history (including playoffs):
1. ’16 Warriors – 88
2. ’96 Bulls – 87 (champs)
T-3. ’25 Thunder – 84 (champs)
T-3. ’97 Bulls – 84 (champs)
@UnderdogNBA
Players in NBA history to win a scoring title and championship in the same season:
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Shaquille O’Neal
Michael Jordan (6x)
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
George Mikan
@UnderdogNBA
TJ McConnell 3Q:
12 PTS
6-7 FG
All other Pacers 3Q:
8 PTS
2-10 FG
Agreed. At worse lateral move…they key is can he take instruction from Rosas and Leon or is he stubborn like Thibs is.
This idea of “trust” and “thibs guy” is silly in modern NBA. You don’t have to trust Kolek or Dadier to play in game 7, – just to let them get 12min a game in January and February.
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that Brown struggles with adjustments. I think the ability to make adjustments are close to the #1 thing you look for in a playoff coach. Scheme matters, but good coaches adjust to your scheme and you need to come up with plans B, C, D….
That said, he’s probably fine if nobody stands out.
Doooooogiiiiie he obviously meant the other Ball brotherrrrrrrrr
You better fire up a 3rd email account, bruv.
The Phoenix train wreck is fascinating, no?
How can they not look to move Booker now? I mean, they can’t be mad at Beal… they knew exactly what they were trading for. Cutting him makes no sense.
If I were them, I’d try to see if Beal could move to PG full-time, trade Booker for young players/picks, and just rebuild with Beal as your “veteran presence.”
It kinda is.
Why?
Oh my god! I can’t believe the Mavs traded Luka to the Lakers for that package!!! What a horrible trade!!!!
Oh my god! I can’t believe the Mavs got the number one pick in the draft even though they had the worst odds of getting the number one pick and get to draft Cooper Flagg! And only a few months after they traded Luka to the Lakers! The Lakers! The most valuable (and popular) team in the entire league!
Oh wow! The buss family just sold The Lakers for a record 10 billion dollars! Man, these new owners must really want to own the Lakers! Good thing The Lakers now have Luka!
How many times do things have to be a coincidence in order for it to be more than that?
What’s the cap savings if they waive and stretch Beal? I think they’re going to do everything in their power to keep Booker a Sun for life, even if that doesn’t make sense with the hole they’ve dug for themselves.
First let’s start with with a literal literacy:
The Lakers weren’t sold for $10BN. A 27% share holder purchased enough shares for a majority stake at a valuation of $10BN. That’s an outlay of approximately $2.5BN on top of their original investment, estimated to be $1.35BN.
Second, some common sense: why would Adam Silver and the NBA risk the entire integrity of the league and the irreversible financial ruin that would come with that just to help the Buss family get a higher valuation of approximately 24% of their shares?
And how did they manage to rig the lottery in front of a whole room of team executives and journalists, not to mention the auditor, who is also is risking financial ruin by participating in this charade?
And lastly why would Nico Harrison agree to be the fall guy?
“First let’s start with with a literal literacy:”
The Lakers were valued at 7.1billion and enough shares were sold at a 10billion valuation to make the 10billion valuation legitimate. So the distinction you make doesn’t matter.
Second point I agree with. No way they tinkered with the draft. But look the other way? Las Vegas summer league. Casino owner of a team, etc
Hubert did his own research
What is the consensus on Dillon Brooks? – He’s obviously available for a bag of peanuts. Guy is a winner. Kids at Memphis imploded without him.
I’m biased to like him cause he hates Lebron but I woudn’t mind having him starting over Josh Hart. Not a super flashy signing but a solid one if Brock and Leon can find a third team to make it work for a 1st rounder and rights to Nnaji.
I get why people would think it’s a conspiracy but Occam’s razor here is probably just that the Lakers have always been absurdly and undeservedly lucky and they probably always will be. That’s Hollywood magic for you baby
Who knows, if Jack Nicholson didn’t slit a goat’s throat while chanting “Hail Satan” in Bohemian Grove in 1979 we might live in a reality where the Lakers suffer consequences. Sadly, we’re somewhere else.
The premise completely falls apart at this very early threshold. A healthy Dallas — yes, Harrison overrated the possibility they’d all stay healthy — absolutely could have beaten OKC and Indiana and won the championship. No question about it.
The Lakers lost in the first round in five.
It really wasn’t even that lopsided a trade, much less some kind of all-time generational fail. Anthony Davis is a great basketball player. Hall of Fame talent.
As a very simple example, all three of the following trades are way worse, all by one team in the span of five years in the late 90s:
Rasheed Wallace for Rod Strickland after one year of Sheed.
24 year old Chris Webber for 33 year old washed up Mitch Richmond.
24 year old Ben Wallace for 30 year old washed up stiff Ike Austin.
There are hundreds and hundreds of trades like this in sports history.
So there was no “conspiracy” to engineer a massively lopsided trade because it wasn’t a massively lopsided trade.
It’s useless to try to rationalize with folks and prove them wrong when they really wish they are right, – so that they can tell everyone how smart they are. The world is just not woke enough to see what they see. You just wasting your time, brother.
Point one – um, no. Sorry but aging AD and Kyrie is not enough to run through the west and win a title.
Point two – The Lakers didn’t get Luka for this season, so how they did in the playoffs this year is irrelevant. They got Luka to set them up for the post-Lebron world. They traded lots of picks to build a team around Lebron and were looking at a very long and ugly rebuild post Lebron with very little draft capital to do anything. Getting Luka secures them a top 5 player entering his prime and secures their relevancy.
I’m stranded at home and listening to NFL radio. A few minutes ago, there was an ad for “_____ Biologics,” a company that offers “medical treatments previously only available to the very rich and elite.” (*) Similarly, in my day job, I’ve encountered (and helped jail) guys who market scam financial instruments — ponzi schemes, in reality — that let the investors get the sort of “prime bank instruments” sold as “typically only available to the very rich.”
There’s no such thing as medical treatments or financial instruments that only the very rich and “elite” can access. There are very expensive things, certainly, that no one here can afford but none of us are cut off from access to them because we aren’t “elite.”
The “Luka conspiracy” falls very squarely into this template. There’s no “elite” doing things behind the scenes that serve as a puzzle for the “non-elite” to piece together.
In reality, when the 1% does shit like the imagination that tends toward conspiracy says they do — typically self-dealing to enrich each other — they typically do it right out in the open and so it never gets to the point of a “secret conspiracy” and so it’s just ignored. See, e.g., Dolan, Leon, and CAA. Crickets about that around here, but it’s way more of what’s termed a “conspiracy” than the Luka thing.
(*) Which turn out to be stem cell treatments, probably poorly administered.
AD’s 32 and Kyrie’s 33. Stop being belligerently ridiculous.
What’s the cap savings if they waive and stretch Beal? I think they’re going to do everything in their power to keep Booker a Sun for life, even if that doesn’t make sense with the hole they’ve dug for themselves.
they can’t stretch beal this year without a buyout. stretching would generate a cap his of $22mm for 5 years. but they already have ~$4mm of dead cap, and there is a rule limiting dead money to 15% of the cap in a year. so they’d need to convince him to buy down the contract by $20mm or so before they could stretch it.
None of these trades comes anywhere close to being as bad as the Luka trade. Ben Wallace? Wallace had not established himself as the all NBA level defender/rebounder that he was in Detroit when he got traded from the Wizards to Orlando. He literally only played for Orlando for one year before being thrown into the Grant Hill trade to Detroit (and that trade was considered lopsided for Orlando).
Yes, exactly — and that “consideration” by everyone was totally wrong.
Sound familiar?
No one makes a trade thinking, “Oh, this is totally lopsided against me.”
But in reality, those were all far more lopsided trades than this one. The latter two beyond any question, like not even close. Strickland was actually a pretty decent player, although not remotely as good as Anthony Davis.
swifty what’s your theory on how they actually rig the lottery. is ernst and young in on it with adam silver, mark tatum, and smart play international (who makes the lottery machine)? does mark dieli, the e&p partner who audited the lottery fairness this year, just sign on to commit a fraud that would be reputation shattering if ratted out, even though he’s about to retire and has only been doing this nba lottery stuff for a couple of years? how elaborate do they have to be in their sleight of hand to fool all the other teams and all the other reporters in the room who can literally see the balls pop out?
Why would this cause irreversible financial ruin?
Donaghy’s best buddy is still drawing a paycheck and reffing important games.
It’s a society level thing.
The President openly uses his office to solicit gifts, sell pardons to criminals, and run crypto grifts and nobody cares.
Integrity isn’t really much of a thing anymore, and nobody gets financially ruined for lacking it.
You’re talking about a different trade, though. You brought up the Wallace trade TO Orlando. I then reference the Wallace trade to Detroit.
Ben Wallace was not a star when he was traded from the Wizards to Orlando and he wasn’t one when he was traded to The Pistons.
Luka is a hall of fame player entering his prime. HUGE FUCKING DIFFERENCE.
Lottery isn’t rigged. It’s just a dumb system that was made even dumber when they flattened the odds. It was a solution that was created to solve a problem that didn’t exist. Now it’s generating predictably dumb results and people are predictably getting mad.
Just let teams tank. It’s fine.
The real conspiracy is how I brought this idea up to keep the thread clean from another E relitigation of the OG trade.
YOU’RE WELCOME.
it half worked thank
I’m becoming convinced thick skin and a bit of nervous aggression (we can maybe call it: excitable social engagement) is a prerequiste for success in your chosen bills paying field there mister E…or maybe you are just wired that way…
– do you have no shame sir?
– um, no, no thank you
gee E, how have you managed not to be all anchored down with a partner for life and an exhaustive sum of progeny all of which you would need to serve til your end days…
do you even have a dog or fish E?
If the league conspires to help the largest market teams, why have the knicks been unable to capitalize for 52 straight years and counting?
Conspiracy theorists will tell you that they did when they gave us Patrick Ewing.
how did you get here donnie?
knicks fan as a kid? via family member or maybe geographic affiliation?
hard to tell in the last post if you’re lamenting or just a bit bitter from sunday…
i thought that geo and e were friends i am so confused now
Our owner has openly feuded with the league for decades…
geo is by default friends with everyone but even our kindest and gentlest poster has his limits
Also geo shoutout for always being so friendly, we interacted some back when I was Mike Honcho on here
What Pags said. Dolan has openly fought with the league for decades. Before that, in the 90’s, the league was all about MJ.
I don’t believe the league throws games (although maybe certain refs have tipped the scales) but I see no reason not to think the draft isn’t sometimes rigged.
Coincident with our owner openly feuding with the league, our draft luck has been consistently terrible relative to expected value.
Weird, huh?
Neither, I am just pointing out that the league office conspiring to help the Lakers but not the Knicks doesn’t pass the smell test.
So you think it went something like this?
David Stern: “hey James Lawrence, we’ll help you get all the stars you want and make your team worth $10,000,000,000 sound good?”
Dolan: “Fuck you, I’m already rich and can buy the best players without your help.”
I mean, it’s possible, I guess. But more likely the league refused to become coconspirators, which led to the estrangement.
pagucci = 108
It is not a conspiracy.
It absolutely READS like a one-two-three hold-your-nose conspiracy six-part mini-series with Anya Taylor Joy playing Jeanie Buss for some unspecified reason.
Alan, make it happen.
Remember when the league voided the trade agreement to send Chris Paul to the Lakers because it made the Lakers too good? How does that fit in with the conspiracy theory?
that was david stern this is adam silver two totally different types of commissioner
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