[ESPN] – Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:19:00 GMT
- Towns makes mark for Knicks, drops 44 on Heat
- New York Knicks vs Miami Heat Oct 30, 2024 Box Scores
- Karl-Anthony Towns explodes for 44 points to shake off struggles as Knicks rally to beat Heat
- New York Knicks @ Miami Heat Odds
- Windermans view: Until there is a quality Heat win, doubts are justified, as Knicks showed
[New York Post] – Thu, 31 Oct 2024 04:21:22 GMT
- Karl-Anthony Towns didnt bring any Jimmy Butler baggage into Knicks rivalry
- Karl-Anthony Towns leaving Jimmy Butler drama in the past: Im not a Timberwolf anymore. Im a Knick
- Karl-Anthony Towns refuses to add fuel to fire before Knicks face Butler and Heat
- New York Knicks Karl-Anthony Towns Leaving Rivalry in Past
- Towns won’t let his past with Heat’s Butler disturb his Knicks future
[Posting and Toasting] – Wed, 30 Oct 2024 14:30:00 GMT
Knicks drop a few (and many!) spots in Week 1 Power Rankings
[SB Nation] – Wed, 30 Oct 2024 12:09:51 GMT
Walt Clyde Frazier calls Bulls**t on idea that 2024 Knicks starting 5 is best ever
[Empire Sports Media] – Wed, 30 Oct 2024 14:05:57 GMT
- Bombshell buyout rumor links Knicks to former No. 1 overall pick
- Warriors predicted to acquire $177 million Nets All-Star via buyout
- Bill Simmons Links Embattled Star to Knicks
- 3x All-Star proposed as shock buyout candidate for Warriors
- Historic statement after trade question; contender ruining best player on the planet: Talking Pts
[Yahoo Sports] – Thu, 31 Oct 2024 02:18:00 GMT
Top Plays from Miami Heat vs. New York Knicks
[Sporting News] – Wed, 30 Oct 2024 18:51:15 GMT
Knicks could surprisingly still trade for $13.3 million Jazz center
[Sporting News] – Wed, 30 Oct 2024 13:25:39 GMT
Former Knicks All-Star outplaying Karl-Anthony Towns with new team
121 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.10.31)”
The Yankees killed my Buzz with an absolute pathetic choke job. Allowing 5 unearned runs in the 5th inning to tie the game because they couldn’t make basic defensive plays. Also when the game was over why was New York, New York being played while the Dodgers celebrated..
As for Soto, if he wants to return to the Yankees and they refuse to meet his contract demands the fans needed to boycott the upcoming season.
Happy Halloween as well, great weather in store for today .
Can we stop talking about baseball now?
I have another hospital procedure today, so I had to spend last night working to finish stuff I can’t do today. Which means I didn’t have to watch the Yankees melt down. Sigh.
At least KAT looked incredible in the highlight reel I watched this morning!
Good luck Alan!
Yeah, KAT was a monster. He lumbers a bit out there but you can’t argue with the results.
Feel better, Alan. To finally have a center who can get the better of Bam is really cool. Just be healthy for the second and third rounds of the playoffs please.
Rooting for you Alan!!
Last night was the first solid showing by both Ortg & Drtg.
Feel better, Alan!
My gift to you, Big Blue Al, and the other Yankees fans is silence on the matter 🙂
Nice to know KAT can fuck Bam up.
I thought the Heat would have a solid comeback season but now it’s looking like Riley might just have to cash in on Butler while he can.
I would love to swing a Jimmy-for-OG trade but the Heat probably have far too much sense to take on that Anunoby contract. Also probably not the best idea to reunite KAT and Towns.
I think KAT and Towns are a fine pair
Ok, Doogie 😉
Best wishes Alan, good luck!
Brunson is the captain and will always be the heart and soul of this team but I think in order to make this work, most nights KAT should probably be the number one option. We’ve debated about Brunson for several years being a true 1 option or is he more of a 1A. I get last night was just one night and all, but KAT scored those 44 points pretty effortlessly. He truly can be a dominate and efficient offensive weapon. Brunson getting 9 assists is a great thing and he should look to score a little less and set everyone up, especially KAT, a little more.
Miami isn’t great or a contender but they are always tough and don’t suck and we beat them on the road. Beating The Heat in their own building is ALWAYS a good thing.
Now we got a few easier games coming up. Let’s continue to work out some kinks and build a little momentum.
Precious coming back will definitely help the bench.
Best wishes, Alan.
OG’s pretty clearly a fourth option who can sometimes show out a little more, which means Mikal is the three. He really has to make that happen for this to work. Hopeful, but not yet convinced. On the optimistic side, Deuce maybe can cover some of that.
They sent out a lot of offensive pop with RJ and IQ. Hopefully, it doesn’t come back to bite. Hopeful, but not yet convinced.
Bridges is averaging 18ppg with a 62% TS%, I think he’ll handle the 3rd option role just fine.
Offense is this team’s strength, they just have to shore up the defensive mistakes and they’ll be as good as we hoped they’d be. Getting Precious and eventually Mitch back will certainly help in that regard.
As for the Yankees last night encapsulated the 2024 team perfectly, it was a fitting way to have their season end.
Having said that as long as they keep Soto I expect for trips to the World Series to become more frequent and hopefully they’ll eventually break thru and win one just like the Dodgers eventually did.
They obviously have to upgrade at 1b, get a 2nd or 3b depending on where they decide to play Jazz next season and they need to replenish the bullpen but honestly as long as they keep Soto they’ll be fine.
OG got far too much individual credit for how the Brunson-Donte-OG-Randle-Hartenstein unit fit like a glove. He was the final piece but his so-called “impact on winning” was greatly overstated and those gaudy W/L could be easily picked apart by looking at how many other Knicks were also injured at the same time he was out. He’s not providing $40M worth of value any time soon.
Unless something unexpected happens, Miami looks like a lottery team.
Great piece by Edwards, who focused entirely on Brunson last night:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5886686/2024/10/31/jalen-brunson-knicks-heat-observation/
About last night game:
– 30 assists on 40 made baskets is good.
Brunson tried his best to put the other guys in rhythm, he’s in a little shooting slump (14-42 in the last two games) but he’ll be fine soon.
– Winning the rebounds battle was another good sign.
– KAT showed his full offensive arsenal, brought down 13 rebounds and when he finally started raising his arms his defense was decent.
We’re not used to scoring centers (who’s the latest, Eddy Curry?) everyone need time adapt to the novelty.
– Until Mitch come back we can forget about rim protection, but the defense was better in the second half, let’s take it as progress.
– Hart was at his gluey best: 14 boards, 6 assists, a couple of threes, but I’m a little worried, 42 minutes in the 4th game of the season when he’s been declared questionable before the last 3 games? I hope he could take it easier against weaker opponents.
– Both OG (overpaying aside) and Mikal (same) showed glimpses of what their “ideal” role should be, the whole crew needs to play together to become a coherent unit and not a my turn-your turn ensemble.
– Deuce is a sure commodity, I’d really like to see Huk instead of Sims and as soon as possible Kolek taking Cam Payne’s spot (he’s not a truly terrible player, but I brace for a disaster every time he has the ball).
Anyway I hope we wouldn’t go with an 8-men rotation all regular season long or our players will be cooked come february…
– Good win but let’s not sleep on the Pistons, they’ve been competitive in every game, Cade’s playing well and Ivey’s too (hello Monty!)
It may be luck, but we still haven’t lost 2 games in a row since trading for OG, just sayin’.
Re: Yankees
I can’t remember an inning as brainless as last night 5th, it summed up everything the Boone Yankees have been in the last 7 years.
Hal declining Boone’s option for next season would be the only good thing to extract from this season, but I doubt it’ll happen.
If Soto signs elsewhere Cashman should be fired immediately (and Hal should sell the team).
Best of luck Alan
I think the best thing Juan Soto can do for Yankees fans is leverage his free agency the way NBA players like LeBron and Giannis do. Everyone expects Hal will want to pay for him and call it a day. But if I’m Soto, I’m not letting that happen. I’m not committing to this team if the plan is to ask me & Judge to carry a lineup of scrubs again. I’d express my intent to resign but withhold my commitment until they do something about 1B, 2B, and 3B. And if they won’t do that, I’d be out. Because Steve Cohen’s plan isn’t going to be “sign Juan Soto and cut corners everywhere else.”
Payne’s game isn’t pretty and his shot hasn’t been falling all that much, but he does have 13 assists to 2 turnovers, averaging 7 assists and one turnover per 36. Competes on defense as well.
The Knicks have the offensive side of the ball fairly well figured out. They’re #2 in eFG% and 3rd in offensive rating, even with Brunson off to a slow start. Low 3PA rate from the first few games was probably an anomaly.
He looked a little more physically fit to me last night (my girffreind said the same thing), but I still think if he dropped a little weight he’d be quicker on both sides.
Wow, you’ve been having a rough time. Best of luck.
On both espn and the athletic this morning the story under the WS stuff was Bronny James scoring 2 points while his team got blown out
Our bench doesn’t need to score much. Between Brunson, KAT, Mikal, and Deuce, the bench players just need to hold down the defense and hit open shots.
Payne wasn’t over dribbling like he did last game.
I agree with what you are saying, but like I’ve been suggesting, we are not in the team building business anymore. The primary concern is not getting good value contracts so we can fit enough talent under the cap or use those contracts to roll up into better players. We are in the business of putting the best possible player/fit we can get at every position. OG is one of those players. So you pay him and move on.
We may still do some tweaking on the bench or maybe even use some of the young players and future picks a year or two down the line to make another move, but this is our team.
Payne’s a decent backup… he just scares me 😁
Feel better, Alan.
Last night was the first game I’ve seen this season, and I was encouraged. Obvs KAT had a monster performance, but what I liked most was his variety on offense. Guy is the complete package. And, like Max said, KAT also seemed to gain momentum on D and finally put his “hands up” (haha), which is a good sign.
Another point: both Divo and Julius were fiery guys, so I tuned in wondering who would replace that quality when necessary. Last night for long stretches Deuce seemed our only guy playing much faster than anyone else. Along with Hart, he kind of dragged some of our sleepier guys off their couches when things looked most miserable.
As an add-on, the BTS stuff during timeouts had clips of Deuce mic’d up in previous games, and he was shouting with authority for guys to get in position, hurry up, and so on. It was new fun to see since Young Miles has been “the Rook” for what seems like forever. Good for him.
I know this is all eye test blather and not serious-numbers-stuff, but I got the impression, reading previous game threads, that our off season moves have created an *urgency* deficit if not really a drop in actual talent. I don’t really see OG or Mikal as particularly emotional guys, and KAT likewise can *seem* to be loafing even if he’s not. Cam Payne seems like the definition of journeyman in the OED, and Sims sleeps even when jumping, so …
If Deuce/Hart (and maybe Huk/Precious?) can get/keep us going emotionally, season looks bright to me.
Steve Cohen has been telling people he’s not getting outbid for Soto and he has more money than anyone else who owns a baseball team. I figure the only way Soto doesn’t go to the Mets is if he wants to go to another particular team and I haven’t seen anything from Soto suggesting he’s not prioritizing getting paid. That’s why you hire Scott Boras.
Very nice win, the Knicks outclassed the Heat last night.
Is there a way to slow down the opponents’ open 3s parade? Why is it happening, is it because they’re over-helping in the paint?
Which means they’ll probably do none of those things. At first base, they’ll trot out Rizzo or DJ, and maybe sign someone like Dom Smith because “analytics something”. Jazz stays at 3B, but he goes back to being a 95 OPS+ guy.
Soto will sign with the Mets, and the Yankees will replace him with someone like Jurickson Profar. They’ll try to cobble up a bullpen again. It’s the 21st century Yankee way.
IMO that would be a horrendously horrible idea.
Jimmy is close to done. He’s 35 and contantly hurt or taking time off to save something for the playoffs. He’s got 1-2 more good years left (if that).
OG is being underutilzed now because we have a lot of scoring talent in the starting lineup, but if someone goes down, OG will step up into the 3rd option role and get us 15+ per game with little impact on his efficiency.
KAT: 58.5% from the field, 95.2% from the free throw line, and 72.7% on threes
I know, I know: Small sample size theater.
And no Jimmy at this point, please.
I know it’s a random typing mistake but this is “psychoanalytically funny” 😀
By the way, this a VERY GOOD thing as long as OG is happy enough that he got paid and is not worrying about his shot count. This is the kind of situation that allows a team like Boston to lose the firepower of a guy like KP and hardly skip a beat on offense. They have players that could easily raise their usage and remain just as efficient, but they are sacrificing for the good of the team. But then when someone gets hurt, they up their usage and all is fine.
Guys I swear I didn’t hack Mike K’s account and write that.
“OG is being underutilzed now because we have a lot of scoring talent in the starting lineup, but if someone goes down, OG will step up into the 3rd option role and get us 15+ per game with little impact on his efficiency.”
He’s still averaging almost 36 minutes per game. Probably a bad idea.
“Guys I swear I didn’t hack Mike K’s account and write that.”
And Z-man didn’t hack mine.
We’re still very much in the team completing business, though. OG and Mikal did not finish the job here the way Porzingis and Jrue did in Boston, or Andre Iguadola did in Golden State. This team is a player short, and not the kind of player you get on the waiver wire or with the TPMLE.
Butler scored 15 points and OG spent the majority of the time guarding him. That’s the important stat for him. Let Brunson and KAT worry about scoring.
Nick Richards with 24 points/14 rebounds/4 blocks last night. Guess we didn’t need him as a back-up center.
RJ had 31 points and 8 assists, and I don’t care.
Butler would be a horrible idea. KAT has probably grown up a bit since that incident and it seems like Thibs has mellowed too but Butler I think is the same ahole that he was when that went down. It would be an unnecessary move and also, he’s close to washed.
For all of Pat Riley’s genius he seems to have parked the Miami Heat in purgatory. They’re probably a 6-8 seed in the East, and the smart move would be to move Butler and rebuild, but they may have waited too long to do that. I don’t think you’re getting a monster asset haul for this version of Jimmy B. The rest of the roster is Bam and a bunch of overachieving tryhards.
It seems to me that we’re likely a cut above MIA, PHI, and IND. The 76ers will be good when healthy but won’t often be healthy. The good teams in the East are BOS, CLE, ORL, and us. Jury still out on MIL.
Re: “Jimmy Butler’s always hurt”, last 4 years:
OG – 52 games/year
Butler – 58 games/year
The KAT/Butler thing is real and I can understand not wanting to pair them up again, but you’re crazy if you think swapping OG Anunoby for Jimmy Butler is a terrible basketball idea for a team that’s all in.
Not crazy, just skeptical. Injuries aside, one player is 35 and the other player is 27.
We might be “all-in” but we’re not just looking to win it all this year. The team, with the current roster, is “all-in” for the next 3ish seasons at least. Butler would push our chips in for this season but potentially hurt our chances the next few seasons.
Is he that “final” move you want to make?
Butler is 35, marching right into his decline phase. He was a sick player in his prime but I just don’t know if I’m gonna be too excited for his age 36 and 37 and beyond seasons. It’s more the decline I’d be worried about, not injuries.
KAT is apparently something like 11-1 against the Heat for his career, which only makes me appreciate him more.
Why the hell would we trade for Butler, at 35, with an expiring contract, and still delusional enough that he wants a max for his next deal? Hard no.
Last season the Heat narrative was they’re taking their time in the regular season, being cautious etc, and then it was going to be PLAYOFF JIMMY and then he got hurt in the play in and they got bounced.
Butler’s BPM the last 4 years: 7.7, 6.3, 8.7, 4.6.
OG Anunoby’s: 1.2, 0.4, 0.5, -0.6.
I don’t care if he’s 35 or 40. Jimmy Butler is going to blow OG out of the water every year he’s in the league. And that Anunoby deal has Future Worst Contract In The League written all over it.
OBPM is useful. DBPM is garbage. Don’t use BPM.
Trading for Butler would make me very nervous for a bunch of reasons (shooting is #1), but the dude is one of the best in the league when he’s on the court.
Make him opt in as part of the trade. You get 2 years of Butler and get out of the last 3 year’s of OG’s contract before it sinks the Brunson era.
The more relevant question is why the hell would Pat Riley want to trade Jimmy Butler for OG Anunoby.
Anunoby was sixth in the league in defensive EPM last season. He ranked 56th in defensive BPM, behind such defensive stalwarts as Zion Williamson, Karl-Anthony Towns, Kyle Lowry, Cason Wallace, and Nic Batum.
Somehow I don’t think BPM is capturing his full value.
Sorry I’m not buying defensive EPM either. It’s way too hypothetical. Let’s see if OG finishes 6th in the league with Towns instead of Hartenstein. He is currently 69th.
Hubie, you’re very wrong about Butler. The history on the age 35-37 span is extremely bad. I don’t think there have been more than 5 superstars who didn’t decline massively at that age.
That result bakes in OG playing more games in TOR than with us, where his rim protector was the immortal Jakob Poeltl. He is who we think he is defensively.
The gap between Butler and OG is so massive that Jimmy can decline immensely and still be significantly better.
Bookmark this page. Two years from now Jimmy Butler will still be better than OG Anunoby, he will have played more games, and you will be dying to dump the last three years of OG’s unmovable contract.
EPM revamped their formula for this season to be predictive rather than explanatory. Not sure how good it is after such a big overhaul.
FWIW, DARKO is also supposed to be predictive and ranks OG 25th on defense.
It annoys me because now I can’t find any explanatory statistics or statistics that isolate the current season instead of also taking past seasons into account (albeit with a discount for every year you go back).
Sorry I’m not buying defensive EPM either. It’s way too hypothetical. Let’s see if OG finishes 6th in the league with Towns instead of Hartenstein. He is currently 69th.
og looks like a special defender and the simplest, easily replicable measurements support it over large samples. you don’t need epm or any proprietary stat with backtested priors. his defensive rapm over the last three seasons is 9th in the entire nba. the data converges.
Meanwhile, in REAL NBA news, Kyle Kuzma declines to dress up any more for tunnel walks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/30/style/kyle-kuzma-nba-tunnel-walk-fashion.html
The Giannis might force his way out of milwaukee stories are already starting
Pretty sure Hartenstein, Lu Dort & a billion draft picks works once iHart’s trade restriction ends.
Championship dream was fun while it lasted.
I’m not doubting OG is a good defender. I’m doubting he’s a better basketball player than Jimmy Butler.
The gap is so large that even if Butler is declining, he’s likely to be both better and more available than OG this year and next year. After that, I’d want nothing to do with either of them (Butler bc of his age, OG bc of his contract).
IMO Butler was a great player and is still a much better all around player than OG, but if he came to these Knicks at this stage he’d wind up being co 3rd option with Bridges behind Brunson and Towns and handle the ball less often. He’d turn into 2&D wing that may not even defend as well at OG right now. We’d be squeezing the lemom of a formerly great player we don’t need.
There are only so many shots in a basketball game. The idea is to use your most effective options on any night given the skills of the players, matchups and defensive stratgey of the opposition. Towns, Brunson and Bridges have more diverse skill sets than OG on offense. So they get more shots. That means OG (and Hart) may not get as many efficient shots as they are capable of, but that’s OK. It’s good to have that surplus offensive talent. As long as Hart is rebounding at a high level, making plays, and providing energy we don’t care if only scores 8-10 PPG. He’s giving us things we need the scorers are not. We don’t need him to score. As long as OG is providing elite switchable defense and help to go along with high level 3 point shooting, we are fine if he scores 12ppg. It has nothing to do with how good he is or what he’s capable of.
I’m not doubting OG is a good defender. I’m doubting he’s a better basketball player than Jimmy Butler.
was responding to your comment that you weren’t “buying his defensive epm either” as too hypothetical and possibly confounded by playing with hartenstein.
Come on Hubie, he’ll be 37 at that point. You are asking us to invest in the same portion of Butler’s career as the Nets did in KG and Pierce’s careers. He’s a poor shooter whose game depends on defense, inside scoring, and getting to the line. Those traits age poorly.
The failure of that was the most predictable outcome in the world, and so would this be.
Butler’s a hard one to figure out, as he seems to turn it on and off fairly regularly. My sense is he’ll age gracefully based on his somewhat low-flying old-man game, but having only watched him on occasion it feels like he’s not really the guy he was a few years back, and I expect in the near future he won’t be who he is now as time continues its cruel march. So no thanks.
I see. I didn’t actually say “his”, though.
In response to “don’t use bpm” I said “I’m not buying defensive EPM, either.” That was about the metric itself, not OG.
For one thing, I am literally not buying it. You seem to need a paid subscription to access it.
For another, it has Isaiah Hartenstein ranked 14th this year 🤔. Hence why I said it’s hypothetical.
I have no doubt OG is a great defender but one great individual wing defender can’t make too much of an impact if the rest of the team isn’t great. OG with Mitch will be incredibly impactful but OG on his own out there is pretty easy for opposing teams to get around. That’s why the market for guys like him is usually 65% of what we paid him.
I am not jumping on any Pistons bandwagon. Cade Cunnigham looks to me like one of the most overpaid players in the NBA.
I wouldn’t trade OG for Jimmy. I like watching OG on defense. I think he is better on defense than Jimmy is on offense.
Currently the site that hosts the EPM rankings is doing some weird mashup of this year’s stats plus last years, which is why Hartenstein appears on the list.
But anyway, Butler is still a good player, and his main attribute is his shot creation. Give him the ball and there’s a pretty good chance he’ll get a bucket or get to the line. That’s a valuable attribute, a premium attribute, no question.
Thing is, we already have two of those guys, and there is only one basketball. Our offense looks like it is going to be very good– we’re #2 in the NBA in eFG%, which is not surprising since we have a lot of high eFG% players on the team. We’re third in offensive rating, and it doesn’t really feel like we’re even firing on all cylinders yet. I think this will be a top 5 offense and a top 5 eFG% team if we stay reasonable healthy.
The problem is on the other side of the ball. Defense is where we will need to improve. Butler has been a good defender in the past, but probably not at OG’s level, and considering one guy is headed into the teeth of his decline phase and the other is still in his 20’s, the gap between them on that end is just going to increase. So you’d be acquiring something that’s valuable but we just don’t need all that much (shot creation) and giving up something that is also valuable but which we don’t have enough of (wing defense). I’m not really so sure you come ahead in that trade, not because of the relative quality of the two players, but because of the attributes of the OTHER players on the team.
Fit matters, and I think you’d get diminishing returns by bringing in a ball-dominant, high usage scorer at the expense of team defense. I’m not really worried about our shot creation, I think we have plenty. We just need to figure out how to stop opponents from scoring.
A few years ago, maybe you do that trade. In a vacuum, maybe you still do that trade today. But this is neither a few years ago nor a vacuum.
Besides his age, the main reason I would not trade for Butler is because we JUST traded for Towns.
From what I can tell, Towns was more immature in his younger days when he played for Thibs and maybe him and Thibs didn’t always get along. But that all seems to be water under the Bridge. Thibs has mellowed a bit and Towns has matured a bit, which is why I think Leon made this trade even with Thibs being the coach.
But I wouldn’t be so sure that Towns would be ok with Butler because of the infamous incident. Maybe he doesn’t care but it was a pretty well publicized incident that was humiliating for him. Butler seems like the same dude he was back then. I’m not saying Butler is a dick or whatever (maybe he is, maybe he isn’t) but Towns is BY FAR our most talented guy and the guy we have to get to buy in and get going if we’re going to make this work.
I would be way too worried about Butler coming in and ruining whatever good vibes the team is able to create.
Butler is actually pretty good off the ball. He gets free for dunks and finds mismatches in the post.
There really isn’t a market for guys like him. There’s only a few wings that are near his level on defense and they just about all suck on offense to the point of being nearly unplayable in the playoffs.
Damnit get fit Alan. We need you in mid-season form pretty much right away. Too much going on to have you sidelined.
I don’t know about you, but I am fine with OG being somewhat overpaid if he can continue to do this on defense while hitting 3s:
https://x.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1851980371329519996
As a reminder, 6 years ago a 29 year old Jimmy Butler publicly requested a trade from the Wolves to the Knicks. Everybody on this site said at the time that he was too old, that his game wouldn’t age well, and that he didn’t fit our win curve. Well, he’s been a top 5 player over the past five combined years and has led his team to two (almost 3) finals, despite being old and supposedly aging poorly. But, sure, eventually somebody will be right when they say Jimmy Butler is too washed to be a Knick.
Donnie, something tells me that adding prime Jimmy Butler to our 17-win team coached by David Fizdale in 2019 would not have been the salvation of our franchise. He didn’t line up with our timeline then and doesn’t now.
“…our 17-win team coached by David Fizdale in 2019…”
That made me laugh but it came out as a low moan.
if you want to see the regularized adjusted plus minus data without the overfit black box mixed in (aka epm) there are still place to find it
https://nbarapm-flask.replit.app/player/OG%20Anunoby
No but it is interesting to think about. Randle and Butler once Thibs got here would have been a pretty good 1-2 punch. Add Brunson 2 years later? Could have been a pretty good team.
But yeah, no Jimmy please.
He didn’t line up with the non-playoff Hassan Whiteside/Josh Richardson led Heat team either, until he led them to the NBA finals in YEAR ONE.
Ok but that team was near .500 the previous year with a rookie Adebayo and a bunch of decent role players, and weird things happened in the bubble such as RJ Barret and Randle becoming 40%+ 3 point shooters.
The following year they got swept in the first round with Jimmy under 30% from the field and 15 PPG.
The 17 win Fizdale team became a 41-31 Thibs team with the same exact starting lineup.
The 17 wins reflect how bad Fizdale was, not the roster.
They were decent under Mike Miller, too.
milo, passing out the good stuff…thank you sir…
edit: whoa, may take a beer or so to make it through some of that…
foundational impact metric
oh yeah, that’s good…
not totally true. The 17 win team did not have rookie IQ off the bench. They did not have Nerlens Noel who was a good back up and capable starter when Mitch didn’t play.
Also did not have D Rose, who was a huge reason for the hot streak at the end of the season.
C’mon, man. The next year he rimmed out a shot that would have sent them back to the finals. The year after that he DID lead them back to the finals.
The point is, Butler has already aged better than almost any basketball player ever, and he has fit everybody’s win curve his entire career because he elevates every team he plays for by virtue of being excellent at basketball.
Will he continue to be great as he nears 40? Probably not, but he’s already proven everybody wrong about age and win curve, so….
Has he? His BPM last year was about half the previous, and this year so far he’s been even worse.
The rule is that players decline very fast once they hit the mid 30’s. Even Jordan had lost several steps by age 34. The superstars who didn’t can be counted on one hand. It’s a bad bet, especially when the indicators are that Jimmy is far closer to the rule than the exception.
The funny thing about all this is that was a total throwaway comment I made. Like “boy it would be nice to have Wemby”. We have as much chance of trading Anunoby for Butler as we do of trading Towns for Tatum.
OG is not having a good year so far and there’s no chance his defense “makes up for it.” In fact, he’s having kind of a dismal year. I won’t bother posting the numbers, as everyone here can get on BB-ref and see them and it’s not my objective here to perpetuate an argument over the guy and they’ve only played four games in any event.
He has to get *way* better. That observation has nothing to do with his contract, either. It’s purely basketball.
Oh, come on. The “numbers” are that OG is 5/18 from 3. Two more of those go in and he’s shooting .388, right in line with career expectation. When I’m the one saying your take is premature and unduly negative, it should give you pause.
There is an ocean of difference between these statements. Wemby is arguably the most valuable asset in the NBA right now (crappy star aside), not a declining star standing at the edge of the abyss.
OG was pretty clearly the best defensive player on the floor last night, primarily tasked with guarding Butler, who got off only 9 FGA in 37 minutes. It was pretty easily observable if you were watching the game that he was making an impact on that end.
KAT questionable for tomorrow’s game with a sprained wrist.
OG is overpaid, it is what it is. Some of you are going to have to learn to live with that.
“Questionable” is just Thibs-speak for “Will play 40 minutes”
Well, that sure escalated quickly.
They overpaid for him, too. Kind of smiley-wry-faced at how not so long ago that observation — always mundane and grounded — was the subject of massive ridicule.
In any event, he’s here, he’s a good player, this is a very good team and hopefully he’ll get better. Yes, that is what it is. It is that. Strat’s basically right — they’re not at the stage where they’re trying to wring surplus value from contracts.
We’re all going to have to live it bc he’s overpaid by such an incredible margin that it’s going to make completing this team darn near impossible.
EB said there’s no other wing like him but Jrue Holiday is not only like him he’s better and he makes 75% of what we pay OG. That excess represents an entire apron.
His contract is so bad it negated everything Brunson’s extension did for us.
In 10 years time, when this becomes a jeopardy question, I will confidently say “I vaguely remember this”
Also, as Fizdale would say TAKE THAT FOR DATA (had hopes for that guy… Poor Fix)
I just worry that now that the dust has fully settled, they’re one weapon short. And IMHO, had they done things right they could have either retained/acquired that weapon or still had the powder to get him.
Still a very good and compelling team. Needs full health.
He makes 83% of what OG does this year. He’s significantly older. He’s not the defender OG is.
Thanks Milo! Don’t be a phantom…
Let me guess: that weapon’s name is Dejounte Murray?
Notably, Jrue turned down a $37M option to take a deal that lasts till he’s 37. OG is making $36.6M this season.
“OG is not having a good year so far and..”
If true an idiotic statement after 4 games. If not true a statement made by an idiotic narcissistic troll.
Jrue is very good but he’s 6’4″ while OG is the same height as Mikal and Wally says that’s 6′ 9″ so there’s that, too.
It’s a silly discussion, and you’re not engaging in good faith anyway, but Jimmy Butler didn’t not decline when he hit his mid-30’s, he had his best statistical season of his career at 33 while leading a play-in 8th seed to the NBA finals. I challenge you to find another player who peaked post-decline period before saying he’s not an exception to the rule.
Bravo… HOF level poasting…
the bucks look terrible…
OG for old man jimmy butler is funny…
banchero >>> cunningham as far as up and coming player…
Banchero out 4 to 6 weeks.
Giannis won’t sleep easily tonight
I am actually watching the Jets at the moment. It turns out the Tencent sports subscription I have for watching NBA games also supplies BFL games). I find the Hera uniforms so odd. That green is so weird and combined with the b darker color, it just doesn’t seem like Jets colors to me.
Spell check really messed with my post. Jets not Hera, and NFL not BFL.
It’s an exciting game
The OG is overpaid schtick is tired. Who cares unless you think we missed an opportunity to spending the money on something else. This is our championship team.
Is Isiah Thomas sock puppeteering some of these accounts? Wish I could figure out how to make Knickerblocker work on mobile.
💯
Talk about lying with true stats. Jeez.
AAV for Jrue = $33.75M
AAV for OG = $42.5M
That’s nearly the entire gap between the first and second apron. So this matters. A lot.